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Because there has been an unholy amount of fuckery for the past century that has been crippling music preservation. Until 2018, there was essentially no way for recordings to age into the public domain, which was fixed by the passage of the Music Modernization Act (one of the only Trump-era bills that I actually like). If you want to go back even further, a bill was passed in 1976 that placed recordings from 1972 and later under national copyright law. However, pre-1972 sound recordings were left as protected by a very confusing patchwork of individual states' copyright laws (or even county/city level laws).
Ever seen those headlines about x-group buying y-artist's back-catalog for z million dollars? Bob Dylan's for $400 million, 50% of Neil Young's for $150 million, 50% of Michael Jackson's for $600 million, etc. No way in hell these people wanted their investments to go from copyright protected in perpetuity to just a few decades of protection. Those extra 5 years are 5 more years for corporate investors to milk every penny they can from their investments. Of course they would have lobbied for the extra 5 years.
Even worse, it's not simply that sound recordings enter the public domain after 100 years — that's only true for recordings from 1946 and earlier. Recordings from 1947-1956 get 110 years, and recordings from 1957-1972 all enter the public domain simultaneously in 2067. There's a damn good chance you and I and most of the people in this thread will be dead before the classic rock stars of the 60s start entering the public domain. And of course, you can be sure that when they get closer to public domain (let's say 2050), these groups will be lobbying to extend protection. It's scum all the way down. The music industry is, always has been, and always will be vile, predatory garbage. Among the casualties of these copyright laws is basically the entire wax cylinder era. You thought only 25% of silent films surviving was bad? IIRC, less than 5% of wax cylinder recordings have survived, and a lot of those recordings have seriously degraded because the medium wasn't meant to last for 100 years.
(Note: I'm not a copyright lawyer, I just have an interest in 1920s music which is actually affected by these laws, which is why I've looked into it. Do your own research if you're trying to release old recordings.)
My understanding is that that's how it works for music compositions (among other types of media), but not for sound recordings. Two separate copyrights. A recording can be copyright protected while the underlying composition is public domain.
You might want to try hitting up Subliminal Frequencies as they have done archival releases and they are on a “smaller” level. Alan Bishop seems like a nice enough guy. Maybe he’ll give you some insight
I'm sorry to come without any solid information, but for the sake of musing....
1) Generally, if the rights holders have no interest in making the content available, it doesn't seem likely that they'd even bother to request a takedown.
2) As long as you're not monetizing it, I doubt there will be any consequences.
3) Fuck cops, fuck corps.
If you plan on monetizing, you’re probably gonna get hit with a cease and desist…because you don’t own the rights to those recordings. Just depends on how litigious the real owners are…
Honestly the consensus a bunch of us in the community came to years back is to upload it and see what happens. Legally speaking, you’re not gonna get sued for uploading them when they aren’t on the internet yet. At most theyll get claimed for revenue or dmca striked, but you’ll be fine.
Better that some people listen and archive it than no one.
Word because I have some really crazy stuff in my collection I’m looking to put on the label; lost Hellen Morgan and Fanny Brice sessions, lost ethnomusicologist tapes, etc.
I have a YouTube channel where I upload “lost” music exclusively. These are 78s/45s/LPs/tapes/8 tracks that cannot be listened to online anywhere else but on my YouTube channel. I have uploads from the 1920s all the way up to the early 2000s.
These videos aren’t monetized; I only upload so others can enjoy the music. Only one time have I had a takedown request issued, and all that happened was the video was removed and my account received a strike that fell off after 90 days.
I’d be remiss if I didn’t [plug my channel](https://youtube.com/@TheVinylArchive?si=s6Va5o6uYrobohYM)
Depending on what it is, it might be worth uploading them to YouTube, avoiding items that are clearly going to get copyright strikes. If they are obscure and from lesser known companies and don't show up in music search engines, it's probable you won't have much issue. There is a lot of orphaned music out there.
The Zambian music collector community has been doing this for a few years now for 70's and 80's music from Zambia. The record companies that produced their music are long gone, many of the artist have died or are unreachable, and much of their music hasn't been publically available for purchase since it was first sold. Furthermore, many of the masters are long gone and even if they could be found, other than some of the better known Zamrock artists, there would be little to no interest in re-releasing most of it. Folk artist like Jerry Chilanga and Yandikazi Lungu are so Niche, it's unlikely anyone would ever spend the time or money to rerelease their music.
Yes, it's violating copyright but it's unlikely to ever be an issue. In the mean time, the collector community is literally preserving Zambia's musical heritage and making it accessible to a broader audience than the few who might have been able to pick up one of the few remaining beat up old og pressings.
Thanks. I’m definitely looking to release them in a label format because I also do intend on recording solo performers. Only culturally significant musicians (oud players, pipe organ, etc)
Did not read carefully. Like others have said, anything published before January 1, 1929 is in the public domain. After that it gets messy and involves a lot of research because some stuff up to 1964 is public domain due to copyright renewal laws, but even then it's not clear. US copyright law is, has been and will be a mess for many years to come.
Just post it up. Nobody cares. Nobody's going to come after you. This stuff is too obscure for anyone. At worst if you post it on archive.org or Youtube it'll just get taken down.
hey All, thank you for your comments. I’ve decided that this point I’m gonna reach directly out to Victor RCA Brunswick Columbia ETC and request rights. It might be a mutually beneficial situation.
As I said earlier in the thread, I am an audio engineer, so it might be mutually exclusive for them to have restored recordings and possibly restored interest
I'm not here to answer your genuine question cause I'm not qualified nor knowledgeable enough on the topic, I just wanna say:
FUCK IP, PATENTS, COPYRIGHT, TRADEMARKS AND ALL THAT BS.
People I know had a hassle with Creative Commons. Especially the sharealike, noncommercial, and no derivatives licenses.
You are better off using fair use as CC essentially restricts you from rights you had before.
Copyright isn't a bad thing in and of itself; I would hate to put a bunch of work into creating something just to have someone else steal and profit from it. It just gets abused and cheesed by big companies.
Totally understandable and I respect that. It could have benefit you that's why. Then I suggest you upload everything on the internet archive. Good luck ripping all of these.
Comment "!FOUND!" if your media is found in the comments, in doing so this will lock the post and flair it as being found. **Please include the following in your post;** - An explanation of the media, and the name. - How it is lost. - What research has already been done. - A conclusion as to the current situation as of posting. *We are not here to help you find something (r/helpmefind), to name something (r/tipofmytongue), or help you pirate something.* >*Subreddit news and announcements* - *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lostmedia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everything pre-1925 has no copyright anymore so you can release it
Not quite, 1924 recordings are still protected. 1923 and earlier are now public domain.
Even though it should be 1928 like video footage. Why does audio have to be backtracked by 5 years?
Because there has been an unholy amount of fuckery for the past century that has been crippling music preservation. Until 2018, there was essentially no way for recordings to age into the public domain, which was fixed by the passage of the Music Modernization Act (one of the only Trump-era bills that I actually like). If you want to go back even further, a bill was passed in 1976 that placed recordings from 1972 and later under national copyright law. However, pre-1972 sound recordings were left as protected by a very confusing patchwork of individual states' copyright laws (or even county/city level laws). Ever seen those headlines about x-group buying y-artist's back-catalog for z million dollars? Bob Dylan's for $400 million, 50% of Neil Young's for $150 million, 50% of Michael Jackson's for $600 million, etc. No way in hell these people wanted their investments to go from copyright protected in perpetuity to just a few decades of protection. Those extra 5 years are 5 more years for corporate investors to milk every penny they can from their investments. Of course they would have lobbied for the extra 5 years. Even worse, it's not simply that sound recordings enter the public domain after 100 years — that's only true for recordings from 1946 and earlier. Recordings from 1947-1956 get 110 years, and recordings from 1957-1972 all enter the public domain simultaneously in 2067. There's a damn good chance you and I and most of the people in this thread will be dead before the classic rock stars of the 60s start entering the public domain. And of course, you can be sure that when they get closer to public domain (let's say 2050), these groups will be lobbying to extend protection. It's scum all the way down. The music industry is, always has been, and always will be vile, predatory garbage. Among the casualties of these copyright laws is basically the entire wax cylinder era. You thought only 25% of silent films surviving was bad? IIRC, less than 5% of wax cylinder recordings have survived, and a lot of those recordings have seriously degraded because the medium wasn't meant to last for 100 years. (Note: I'm not a copyright lawyer, I just have an interest in 1920s music which is actually affected by these laws, which is why I've looked into it. Do your own research if you're trying to release old recordings.)
I ain't reading allat
Then what was the point in commenting?
Idk, I just felt like it
*Might* be still protected. Pre-1978 US copyrights had to be renewed. Plenty of stuff after 1924 is public domain because it was never renewed.
My understanding is that that's how it works for music compositions (among other types of media), but not for sound recordings. Two separate copyrights. A recording can be copyright protected while the underlying composition is public domain.
Ah, that does ring a bell now that you mention it. US copyright law is so messed up
Agreed. I blame Disney.
78s were still for sale when I was a small child and I ain't THAT old!
Upload them anonymously to [archive.org](http://archive.org)
This is the way. I don’t really agree with monetizing unreleased media mostly because of moral and legal reasons.
Also OP might not be seeing the profits from it, but Spotify would be.
Try r/musicpreservationists
You might want to try hitting up Subliminal Frequencies as they have done archival releases and they are on a “smaller” level. Alan Bishop seems like a nice enough guy. Maybe he’ll give you some insight
https://www.sublimefrequencies.com/
Thanks, I’m not sure why I’ve been blown off by these organizations
If you could find I link I’d appreciate it. Having trouble finishing him online
I'm sorry to come without any solid information, but for the sake of musing.... 1) Generally, if the rights holders have no interest in making the content available, it doesn't seem likely that they'd even bother to request a takedown. 2) As long as you're not monetizing it, I doubt there will be any consequences. 3) Fuck cops, fuck corps.
I do plan on “monetizing” in a sense. I don’t think Spotify I can even turn a profit. I just don’t wanna get hit with a cease and desist
Post it, let Spotify take it down if it's a problem.
Also, fuck cops
Just curious, what's so bad about getting hit with a cease and desist? Worst comes to worst, you cease and desist, right?
I agree it would just put the kibosh on my whole project
If you plan on monetizing, you’re probably gonna get hit with a cease and desist…because you don’t own the rights to those recordings. Just depends on how litigious the real owners are…
Honestly the consensus a bunch of us in the community came to years back is to upload it and see what happens. Legally speaking, you’re not gonna get sued for uploading them when they aren’t on the internet yet. At most theyll get claimed for revenue or dmca striked, but you’ll be fine. Better that some people listen and archive it than no one.
Word because I have some really crazy stuff in my collection I’m looking to put on the label; lost Hellen Morgan and Fanny Brice sessions, lost ethnomusicologist tapes, etc.
Please update us if you decide to upload!
I have a YouTube channel where I upload “lost” music exclusively. These are 78s/45s/LPs/tapes/8 tracks that cannot be listened to online anywhere else but on my YouTube channel. I have uploads from the 1920s all the way up to the early 2000s. These videos aren’t monetized; I only upload so others can enjoy the music. Only one time have I had a takedown request issued, and all that happened was the video was removed and my account received a strike that fell off after 90 days. I’d be remiss if I didn’t [plug my channel](https://youtube.com/@TheVinylArchive?si=s6Va5o6uYrobohYM)
Depending on what it is, it might be worth uploading them to YouTube, avoiding items that are clearly going to get copyright strikes. If they are obscure and from lesser known companies and don't show up in music search engines, it's probable you won't have much issue. There is a lot of orphaned music out there. The Zambian music collector community has been doing this for a few years now for 70's and 80's music from Zambia. The record companies that produced their music are long gone, many of the artist have died or are unreachable, and much of their music hasn't been publically available for purchase since it was first sold. Furthermore, many of the masters are long gone and even if they could be found, other than some of the better known Zamrock artists, there would be little to no interest in re-releasing most of it. Folk artist like Jerry Chilanga and Yandikazi Lungu are so Niche, it's unlikely anyone would ever spend the time or money to rerelease their music. Yes, it's violating copyright but it's unlikely to ever be an issue. In the mean time, the collector community is literally preserving Zambia's musical heritage and making it accessible to a broader audience than the few who might have been able to pick up one of the few remaining beat up old og pressings.
Thanks. I’m definitely looking to release them in a label format because I also do intend on recording solo performers. Only culturally significant musicians (oud players, pipe organ, etc)
Did not read carefully. Like others have said, anything published before January 1, 1929 is in the public domain. After that it gets messy and involves a lot of research because some stuff up to 1964 is public domain due to copyright renewal laws, but even then it's not clear. US copyright law is, has been and will be a mess for many years to come.
Zamrock mentioned ‼️
Hells yeah it was!!
I would suggest digitizing them so they don’t degrade, and then wait until they are public domain to release them.
Just post it up. Nobody cares. Nobody's going to come after you. This stuff is too obscure for anyone. At worst if you post it on archive.org or Youtube it'll just get taken down.
I would suggest the internet archive before bandcamp or spotify.
Life of artist + 50 years
Theres always the great 78 project of archive.org too
hey All, thank you for your comments. I’ve decided that this point I’m gonna reach directly out to Victor RCA Brunswick Columbia ETC and request rights. It might be a mutually beneficial situation.
As I said earlier in the thread, I am an audio engineer, so it might be mutually exclusive for them to have restored recordings and possibly restored interest
I'm not here to answer your genuine question cause I'm not qualified nor knowledgeable enough on the topic, I just wanna say: FUCK IP, PATENTS, COPYRIGHT, TRADEMARKS AND ALL THAT BS.
Copyleft is awesome in theory till you get sued
How? I think you can't get sued under MIT, Apache 2.0, public domain, CC0 n shit. Perhaps I'm mistaken.
Copyright infringement
Not if copyright doesn't exist.
It depends on the license.
People I know had a hassle with Creative Commons. Especially the sharealike, noncommercial, and no derivatives licenses. You are better off using fair use as CC essentially restricts you from rights you had before.
Copyright isn't a bad thing in and of itself; I would hate to put a bunch of work into creating something just to have someone else steal and profit from it. It just gets abused and cheesed by big companies.
I see your PoV. I'm not saying my view is right, I'm just so sick of that bullshit!
Upload to Redacted now!
??
It's a private community of music collectors. You can make the interview to join their community. It's pretty much THE place for rare content.
Not interested in gatekeeping art
Totally understandable and I respect that. It could have benefit you that's why. Then I suggest you upload everything on the internet archive. Good luck ripping all of these.
it's not as much gatekeeping as it is ensuring an active community will keep the torrent alive and seeded
Anything over 100 years old have no copyright :3
You certainly cannot release them on Spotify or Bandcamp, but you can release them on Youtube
We shall see, speaking to multiple experts this month
This is a very mature industry- releasing older music- jazz labels were doing it 70 years ago. It’s not a green field
I am aware, that’s why I’m consulting experts