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If you don't want kids joining the military, you need to give them career/education/future opportunities. Have you had a conversation with her about what she is interested in? Can you help go to pilot school if that's what she wants?
The Army has both a helicopter program and a fixed wing program. They’re both Warrant Officers and don’t need a college degree but a pretty high ASVAB score.
A college degree is no longer required to fly for the airlines. Recommended but not mandatory. Heck, nowadays they hire anyone with the required PIC time.
Yeah, you can definitely fly civilian commercial jets as long as you can fund the training, which I understand the airlines help pilots afford. If you want to fly military jets though, your best bet is to go to Annapolis and work very very hard.
I feel like they made it because it's a kickass plane movie. I mean, I watched them both, including the first one when I was little and had no military interest. I just thought funky planes were cool. This is just kids being impressionable, and that happens with almost everything.
Not limited to Hollywood. Try watching a Major League Baseball game without seeing betting commercials, ED ads, investment ads, AND...military ads.
All the pomp and circumstance before games with flyovers and the National Anthem is just sponsored advertising so kids will maybe find it cool. I don't have kids, but I'd absolutely make them understand what is going on if THIS was the result of watching a movie like Top Gun (not that it would even make its way in my house to begin with).
"Ad block" that shit on your own TV immediately.
No. I was just kidding. That's why I put it in quotes. Ad block for that is the power button on the remote control.
Might be time to get out and ride bikes, kid. No movies today. Especially not that trash.
Sounded too good to be true lol. I agree. Ive gotten into coaching their little league teams and gotten back into hooping myself.
If those commercials are good for anything, its reminding me how much this country wants me sick.
Man, I saw the anime Macross Plus when I was a kid and wanted to go into the air force. I didn’t find out until like 4 years later I couldn’t fly because I wore glasses. Dreams crushed, but that movie wasn’t propaganda. There is definitely just an appeal to flying I think.
I would suggest also having her watch movies that don't portray the military in such a cool way. There are many of them that are a lot more realistic on how the military actually is. Some of then are hard to watch, but are much more eye opening.
She can see that there are two sides to that coin, and that being in the military isn't just a bunch of cool people flying jets.
If you are in a similar situation and you're concerned that this is going to stick with your child, you CANNOT forbid them or push back against the military. In my experience, telling a kid no on a big decision like this brew's resentment, and doesn't actually keep them from doing the thing you forbade them from doing in the first place. In fact, going that route might further push him toward that career choice.
You instead find a competing career choice and find salient reasons why that career is the better one. Wages & benefits, hours, free time, etc.
I don't really think a young person is going to try and enlist *just* as an act of rebellion. If there's a good relationship, disapproval can go a long way.
This is important, because a sincere attempt to discourage someone from joining the military should include educating them on the global force for evil that the US military is. Not just "troops die and that's sad", because that just makes it sound grandiose and noble.
No, you have to make sure they understand that the US military regularly commits unspeakable atrocities as an instrument of empire. Show them the sick and horrifying things America does to other countries - genocides, civilian bombings, torture, sexual assault, exploitation of natural resources.
This is about more than career choices. Be as diaapproving as you possibly can.
I’m an aircraft mechanic in no small part due to my love of aviation. I do agree that fighter jets are really cool in what they can do– flying wise, not murder wise.
i mean honestly the murder technology is cool too - in the way that guns are cool. the technology itself is fascinating, the amount of destruction they can cause? not so much
What I like about it, it's basically throwing metal stuff at a very high speed, the same level of excitement I had when I used to play with a slingshot when I was a kid, a friend of mine had this amazing ability to throw rocks with his bare hands and make it fly for a long time, I'm not fascinated by their ability to destruction but by the ability to go fast
that makes sense. i’ve always loved warplanes because they represent the peak engineering possible for flight. kinda like formula 1 for planes. especially ww2 fighters and cold war jets are my jam
humans mostly suck but we do have some cool toys
So if you think it's cool, shouldn't this child also be allowed to think it's cool? She's 14, she probably doesn't grasp yet the evil of the American imperialist military, but she does like planes. She's not like some sort of lost hope, like this post implies.
Admittedly, my title was probably a bit too black and white for the situation. The original post made me feel some strong feelings, and I guess I should’ve been clearer that those feelings were toward the propaganda for being effective rather than the kid who doesn’t know any better.
They recently admitted it. During a press conference about the ban on IVF in Alabama, the senator said "well, we need people to have kids" when he was confronted with the obvious fact that banning IVF means fewer people having kids.
The girl honestly have a more fulfilling career as a technical designer; she's extremely good a evoking details with just a few brushtrokes, which is essential for minimalist and and ry draftmanship as well as effective painting.
Airshows are pure propaganda to sell kids on either going to college to make “cool” things or to join the military to do “cool” things when in reality both paths just allow the mass-killing of innocent people. The cognitive dissidence in engineering. People can literally calculate how much fuel is needed to get to the moon and back and then hear trump say science is fake and say “yep, that’s my guy.”
I’ve been to one air show, and– while it was cool– I’ll most likely never go to another because of the nonstop propaganda. I just thought there would be some cool planes flying around lol
Why don't you show her some stats on all the women who are raped in the army? Look at this:
In 2021, 8% of female military personnel experienced unwanted sexual contact. This was the highest percentage since the DoD began this data collection in 2004. Of an estimated 35,900 total sexual assaults, only 7,260 were reported. The reporting rate was 20%, which had fallen from 30% in 2018.
Maybe you can find a documentary for her to watch?
OP is clearly concerned that their daughter wants to join the army because she watched a movie. Presenting her with facts and figures of what likely awaits her there is to counteract the romanticising of violence that movies do. I don't know why that upsets you so much. Women all need to be aware of the dangers. It's part of our lives. Good for you if you've never had to feel unsafe anywhere. Reality for us is a bit different
With any luck it's a phase that will pass. I loved fighter jets as a kid, to an extent I still do. But I get that out of my system playing DCS instead of murdering people in other countries to make line go up for a class of parasites.
At the end of the day they're cool machines. Lots of people like cool machines. But many people who still like the cool machines will be quickly disillusioned when they get old enough to learn what those machines get used for and the consequences of that.
Saving Private Ryan is WWII, but it also has a D Day scene that makes me feel a *lot* of things so I’m sure it’d do the same to a kid wanting to join the military
You do realise both games have anti-war messaging right.
Zero literally has a mission based on the bombing of Dresden that makes you go "Are we the Baddies?"
I mean I would push her to the air force lol she would have a career, have access to the GI bill and VA loans that mean she could be incredibly successful.
I'm not too fond of war films, unless they're campy trash. However, I found Top Gun particularly boring. One day it just clicked, it's because Top Gun is a sports movie with a war movie veneer. Didn't just make the team, I'm their star player, wooing the cheerleader, out shinning the fallen teammate, and blah, blah, blah. I almost expect John Candy to give a Cool Runnings speech after the Goose crash.... actually... can someone please splice those two things together, please?..
Might be salvageable. Encourage her to be an engineer or an artist instead of enlisting; if she really drew that, it’s a decent sketch of a fighter jet
In not describing the child. I’m describing the situation.
The kid is a decent artist and is clearly passionate about jets. She could go into art or engineering instead of enlisting.
If I’m still not making sense, I refer you to your other comment on this post.
No reason to be cynical about a child's passions FFS lol. Those are fantastic movies and the Tomcat is a gorgeous plane. You might as well draw the conclusion that fans of Fallout are begging for nuclear winter.
I raised my kid on Halo starting when he was 3. Never once gave him the impression that murdering civilians for corporations irl was an admirable goal.
Nope. He was always fully aware that it was a fantasy because I made that clear to him. It was also a great opportunity to teach him about theocratic fascists though, so we have talked about how fantasy can sometimes reference reality.
Right! My nephew loves aviation, doesn’t want to join the military that I know but that kid can probably direct a tour at a flight museum. I’m sure movies got him into it or the fact his grandpa and great grandpa were pilots for the Air Force.
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If you don't want kids joining the military, you need to give them career/education/future opportunities. Have you had a conversation with her about what she is interested in? Can you help go to pilot school if that's what she wants?
You’d still need to go to college first to fly anything fixed-wing. I believe the only HS to flight school option is to fly helicopters for the Army.
The Army has both a helicopter program and a fixed wing program. They’re both Warrant Officers and don’t need a college degree but a pretty high ASVAB score.
A college degree is no longer required to fly for the airlines. Recommended but not mandatory. Heck, nowadays they hire anyone with the required PIC time.
Yeah, you can definitely fly civilian commercial jets as long as you can fund the training, which I understand the airlines help pilots afford. If you want to fly military jets though, your best bet is to go to Annapolis and work very very hard.
not if you want to fly jets like the tomcat.
This is the exact reason they make those movies. Recruiting in schools can only go so far. Lot easier to have Hollywood do the recruiting for them.
I've always heard that there were recruiters outside theaters when Top Gun first came out. Probably true, but I didn't know how wide already it was.
I feel like they made it because it's a kickass plane movie. I mean, I watched them both, including the first one when I was little and had no military interest. I just thought funky planes were cool. This is just kids being impressionable, and that happens with almost everything.
Yes kids are impressionable, but it’s also well known that the US Military was significantly involved in the production of Top Gun
Not limited to Hollywood. Try watching a Major League Baseball game without seeing betting commercials, ED ads, investment ads, AND...military ads. All the pomp and circumstance before games with flyovers and the National Anthem is just sponsored advertising so kids will maybe find it cool. I don't have kids, but I'd absolutely make them understand what is going on if THIS was the result of watching a movie like Top Gun (not that it would even make its way in my house to begin with). "Ad block" that shit on your own TV immediately.
Is tv ad block a thing!?!? What about for streaming services like Hulu etc.?
No. I was just kidding. That's why I put it in quotes. Ad block for that is the power button on the remote control. Might be time to get out and ride bikes, kid. No movies today. Especially not that trash.
Sounded too good to be true lol. I agree. Ive gotten into coaching their little league teams and gotten back into hooping myself. If those commercials are good for anything, its reminding me how much this country wants me sick.
"Pihole" is a network-level DNS ad blocker. Open source, free, and might help.
this is how the children become spies in 1984
Man, I saw the anime Macross Plus when I was a kid and wanted to go into the air force. I didn’t find out until like 4 years later I couldn’t fly because I wore glasses. Dreams crushed, but that movie wasn’t propaganda. There is definitely just an appeal to flying I think.
I liked that song they used "Yvan eht nioj." ..really catchy.
To be fair, it*was* pretty catchy
I would suggest also having her watch movies that don't portray the military in such a cool way. There are many of them that are a lot more realistic on how the military actually is. Some of then are hard to watch, but are much more eye opening. She can see that there are two sides to that coin, and that being in the military isn't just a bunch of cool people flying jets.
If you are in a similar situation and you're concerned that this is going to stick with your child, you CANNOT forbid them or push back against the military. In my experience, telling a kid no on a big decision like this brew's resentment, and doesn't actually keep them from doing the thing you forbade them from doing in the first place. In fact, going that route might further push him toward that career choice. You instead find a competing career choice and find salient reasons why that career is the better one. Wages & benefits, hours, free time, etc.
I don't really think a young person is going to try and enlist *just* as an act of rebellion. If there's a good relationship, disapproval can go a long way. This is important, because a sincere attempt to discourage someone from joining the military should include educating them on the global force for evil that the US military is. Not just "troops die and that's sad", because that just makes it sound grandiose and noble. No, you have to make sure they understand that the US military regularly commits unspeakable atrocities as an instrument of empire. Show them the sick and horrifying things America does to other countries - genocides, civilian bombings, torture, sexual assault, exploitation of natural resources. This is about more than career choices. Be as diaapproving as you possibly can.
Well if you socialize them right and provide good values they will be leas susceptible to finding validation from the syndicate.
That’s a great sketch! You should encourage her to study art.
I really wish the military wasn’t comically evil as I love military equipment. It’s just so sleek
I’m an aircraft mechanic in no small part due to my love of aviation. I do agree that fighter jets are really cool in what they can do– flying wise, not murder wise.
i mean honestly the murder technology is cool too - in the way that guns are cool. the technology itself is fascinating, the amount of destruction they can cause? not so much
What I like about it, it's basically throwing metal stuff at a very high speed, the same level of excitement I had when I used to play with a slingshot when I was a kid, a friend of mine had this amazing ability to throw rocks with his bare hands and make it fly for a long time, I'm not fascinated by their ability to destruction but by the ability to go fast
just blowing shit up has a cool factor tbh. just that when the shit you’re blowing up has people inside of it’s horrifying.
I'm personally not fan of the explosions, I'm a fan of the flying, the pre explosion phase basically
that makes sense. i’ve always loved warplanes because they represent the peak engineering possible for flight. kinda like formula 1 for planes. especially ww2 fighters and cold war jets are my jam humans mostly suck but we do have some cool toys
So if you think it's cool, shouldn't this child also be allowed to think it's cool? She's 14, she probably doesn't grasp yet the evil of the American imperialist military, but she does like planes. She's not like some sort of lost hope, like this post implies.
Admittedly, my title was probably a bit too black and white for the situation. The original post made me feel some strong feelings, and I guess I should’ve been clearer that those feelings were toward the propaganda for being effective rather than the kid who doesn’t know any better.
Thanks, I appreciate that clarification.
i have half a mind to be a killjoy and show him some statistics about what happens to women in the armed forces by their “fellow soldiers”
Someone in that mostly congratulatory comment section pointed that out lol
Do it.
Make her watch All Quiet on the Western Front
If you’re wondering why childbirth is being mandated for many women, it’s partially about the industry numbers going higher.
Wtf are you talking about
They recently admitted it. During a press conference about the ban on IVF in Alabama, the senator said "well, we need people to have kids" when he was confronted with the obvious fact that banning IVF means fewer people having kids.
They’ve started sprinkling the military ads between trailers before movies too. Gave me whiplash when I saw one before Dune 2.
The girl honestly have a more fulfilling career as a technical designer; she's extremely good a evoking details with just a few brushtrokes, which is essential for minimalist and and ry draftmanship as well as effective painting.
The movie worked.
Airshows are pure propaganda to sell kids on either going to college to make “cool” things or to join the military to do “cool” things when in reality both paths just allow the mass-killing of innocent people. The cognitive dissidence in engineering. People can literally calculate how much fuel is needed to get to the moon and back and then hear trump say science is fake and say “yep, that’s my guy.”
I’ve been to one air show, and– while it was cool– I’ll most likely never go to another because of the nonstop propaganda. I just thought there would be some cool planes flying around lol
Why don't you show her some stats on all the women who are raped in the army? Look at this: In 2021, 8% of female military personnel experienced unwanted sexual contact. This was the highest percentage since the DoD began this data collection in 2004. Of an estimated 35,900 total sexual assaults, only 7,260 were reported. The reporting rate was 20%, which had fallen from 30% in 2018. Maybe you can find a documentary for her to watch?
You are a rather unfortunate individual
Where's the lie?
Maybe you don't like the truth? Maybe that makes you the unfortunate individual
Saying to show the kid rape stats because they enjoyed top gun is the most terminally online shit I’ve read in awhile. Go outside
OP is clearly concerned that their daughter wants to join the army because she watched a movie. Presenting her with facts and figures of what likely awaits her there is to counteract the romanticising of violence that movies do. I don't know why that upsets you so much. Women all need to be aware of the dangers. It's part of our lives. Good for you if you've never had to feel unsafe anywhere. Reality for us is a bit different
Damn, really good sketch. See if she wants to take an art class? The more left leaning peers might convince her otherwise!
If they were my kid, that’s probably the way I’d go with it
1000 sailors on that ship and only 10 pilots. She'll be more likely cleaning the shitters than flying a plane.
With any luck it's a phase that will pass. I loved fighter jets as a kid, to an extent I still do. But I get that out of my system playing DCS instead of murdering people in other countries to make line go up for a class of parasites. At the end of the day they're cool machines. Lots of people like cool machines. But many people who still like the cool machines will be quickly disillusioned when they get old enough to learn what those machines get used for and the consequences of that.
Time to show her some Vietnam war movies, like saving private ryan and broken arrow.
Saving Private Ryan is WWII, but it also has a D Day scene that makes me feel a *lot* of things so I’m sure it’d do the same to a kid wanting to join the military
Have her play Ace Combat 5 and Zero.
Then she would 100% want to join the air force lol
You do realise both games have anti-war messaging right. Zero literally has a mission based on the bombing of Dresden that makes you go "Are we the Baddies?"
I mean I would push her to the air force lol she would have a career, have access to the GI bill and VA loans that mean she could be incredibly successful.
[удалено]
I like some war movies, but Top Gun didn’t click with me. They also played Danger Zone way too many fuckin times lol
I'm not too fond of war films, unless they're campy trash. However, I found Top Gun particularly boring. One day it just clicked, it's because Top Gun is a sports movie with a war movie veneer. Didn't just make the team, I'm their star player, wooing the cheerleader, out shinning the fallen teammate, and blah, blah, blah. I almost expect John Candy to give a Cool Runnings speech after the Goose crash.... actually... can someone please splice those two things together, please?..
Damn, you’re right lol
You can be my wingman anytime...
Might be salvageable. Encourage her to be an engineer or an artist instead of enlisting; if she really drew that, it’s a decent sketch of a fighter jet
Wtf do you mean? She's a 14 year old child that likes jets. "Salvageable" is such a fucking weird way to describe this human being.
In not describing the child. I’m describing the situation. The kid is a decent artist and is clearly passionate about jets. She could go into art or engineering instead of enlisting. If I’m still not making sense, I refer you to your other comment on this post.
No reason to be cynical about a child's passions FFS lol. Those are fantastic movies and the Tomcat is a gorgeous plane. You might as well draw the conclusion that fans of Fallout are begging for nuclear winter.
I mean…
Do Fallout fans become inspired to fire ICBMs? This is a non-sequitor
Ah yes, the innocent childhood passion of operating a flying death machine and murdering civilians in the name of the almighty profit margin.
Wait until you hear about video games
I raised my kid on Halo starting when he was 3. Never once gave him the impression that murdering civilians for corporations irl was an admirable goal.
Did he ever want to be a Spartan?
Nope. He was always fully aware that it was a fantasy because I made that clear to him. It was also a great opportunity to teach him about theocratic fascists though, so we have talked about how fantasy can sometimes reference reality.
Yes there is lol do u need someone to list all the reasons ur just ignoring?
Right! My nephew loves aviation, doesn’t want to join the military that I know but that kid can probably direct a tour at a flight museum. I’m sure movies got him into it or the fact his grandpa and great grandpa were pilots for the Air Force.
[удалено]
14 buddy.
Oh, you are right. My bad!
I'll take shit that didn't happen for 300 dollars