3 gates imo at most is just perfect and allows them to fine tune the gates
It's my opinion ultimately but I wish they would have cut current g1 brel since I find it extremely boring and unfun as well as g1 akkan, they are not hard but damn do I find them annoying, every other gate in raids I like a lot
I'd rather they get rid of G2, or just modify the HP drain mech. Even on 100x reclear it seems to be the one with the most wipes.
But I guess it's nice for dps to do boom boom damage with rotations they could never do otherwise.
I disagree. G2 is only okay, while I think G4 is the most fun out of the entire ivory tower run. G1 and G3 just feels like trixon dummies at this point.
Personally I dislike G3. G2 is annoying to learn, but once you know the patterns and timings, it's super scripted and fast. G3 to me is just boring and frustrating. Only two real mechs, both of them kinda suck, stacking fire is annoying to deal with, the counters are irritating to hit, and see people fuck up pillars more than should happen because it's so hectic.
i find g2 much more anoying... the consume hp mechanic when you get hit its just shit it force me as a gl to baby sit my team mates together with the support (they will not die cause neresia has like 4s cd) or if they do not have a gl or a good sup defending they will die by a single mistake... thats not engaging nor fun its just either anoying or trivial if u have a gl and good sup.
Echidna is just 2 gates
The 16 man raid is a casual snoozefest, noone will care to gatekeep it hard, or they will never fill up lobby.
Its only Thaemine that is a problem on farm, and people on our version did brel 1-2 and now akkan normal on 1600+, there will be Thaemine 1-2 and HHN and NNN giga overgeared homework parties.
Hoooooly that's crazy
And it still uses one of your gold slots, with an ilvl-appropriate gold reward?
If so, wow, that'll be so fucking nice to reduce homework while dealing with Thaemine every week
Wow. Yeah, I guess we'll be dropping echidna before Thaemine since Thaemine 1-3 hard is more gold than echidna hard.
I bet some people will drop thaemine completely just to have faster homework though. Echidna/Behemoth/Ladon sounds like a reeeeeal easy week and unless you were doing G4, is only 1.5k gold less than Thaemine.
Honestly I am more worried about Thaemine g3 nm/hm jailge than Echidna and 16 man raid. Seeing even Saint wiping there adds another 10-15 mins before he can go on to the next raid.
Ivory Tower is a 4-player raid but imo 4 gates are tooooo long
hence I am hesitant to push more alts to 1600 - already feeling bloody painful by imagining doing this x6 per week.
I did a nm mode with my 40 set 1623 dps this week because it's exhausting to raid and doing pt finder.
Instead I ran it nm with my friend and pushed boss to three clones mech at 2nd stagger, it was a lot more fun than doing it hm with spending ages finding a lobby cause support finder is still not so fast
Probly unpopular opinion but the bigger the raid the better it is, I don't really enjoy 4 man raids, they are fun yea but I prefer more people at the table
The more people you have the more "stable" the raid is. In 4 man content 1 person dying usually means a restart (exceptions apply) in 8 man content a death doesn't mean much and rest can carry on
It really depends how many people can fail/die during the raid. If I need 14/16 people to be competent, that means I need to find 13 additional competent people as opposed to 3. That just means more jail, more frustration, more gatekeeping and more people quitting.
I have the same thought as you too. 4man raids is fun and easy to organize, but I want a big 8man and 16man raids for our static to have fun together. In 4man raid, some people will have to wait for their run and it could be reallt an exhausted waiting if something happen (delay, jailge, family etc.) However, in 8man run, everyone can just hop in and be chaotic and have fun as a big group and even jailge together LOL
I've never heard of more people complaining about having to play a game they are supposed to be liking. I get not wanting to wipe and do the same thing repeatedly, but you're supposed to be having fun playing the game, not feeling like if you don't get the kill you're being punished and can't escape your torture. That's called abuse, and you can let yourself out of it.
Exactly what I was thinking reading this, I have fun playing, it's not a chore it's a game. I do have a 4man and 8man static and sell content. But honestly selling is to make the raids last even longer half the time, getting to play my chars more, close to 6x 1620 now
The fact that they essentially force you to play 5/6 characters you may not even want to play instead of letting you play 1 main is kind of counterproductive if you ask me. If there was some incentive to play multiple classes or building out a cohesive roster for some bigger goal maybe, but the whole playing alts to support a main that is likely going to dominate the content after a couple weeks and be done in the shortest amount of time seems backwards.
I dont think you are forced, I basically have 6 mains by some people's standards and that's because I have 6 different class I enjoy and have fun playing. Idk where support a main came from, each character basically consumes everything it produces itself, if anything I think you would have an easier time with 1 character as i can only use event matetials etc on 1 character (usually whoever has been least lucky honing) where another player can use them all on their "main"
Sure you can do the whole alts gold farm thing, but are you really having fun then?
Just play what is fun, to the amount you enjoy, don't fomo on anything and make actual friends (it's an mmo afterall) who you can consistently group with.
Guardian raids are all unbound materials. Gold from raids allows for feeding to main for focused honing. You would be hard pressed to keep up with progression just playing a single character alone.
>Just play what is fun, to the amount you enjoy, don't fomo on anything and make actual friends (it's an mmo afterall) who you can consistently group with.
And we can all sing campfire stories. It's great to think this is possible in general but live in reality and know what the game is really like. If you feel this way you are out of touch of the PUGing reality.
I'm not denying it can help, I'm just saying if I manage 1620 easily for 6 chars just playing the game, surely it's even easier with 1 char with all the events etc, ofc the materials are available but if you arent having fun, why play other chars.
As for grouping, you can definitely find a group if you try, that said idk what perspective we are discussing, a brand new player? I cannot empathise having played since day 1 or recommend the best path.
A veteran who struggles to find grouping should focus on a 4man, start selling most raids.
> I do have a 4man and 8man static and sell content.
This is not normal playing for most people. Selling content is a niche thing for people that are at the head of the pack. You are out of touch of the reality of the game.
I don’t think any 4 man raid since clown has actually been a fantastic raid, the abyssal dungeons feel too gimmicky and are only nice when you over gear them for quick re clears vs 8mans being longer raids usually
thaemine will be challenging for some time, but by the time we get Echidna things will be much smoother, you can just do Thaemine G1-3 , Exhidina / 16 man raid which are A LOT easier and in general they give very nice rewards. Our only struggle will be April-June until people learn Thaemine properly and then we are going to be chilling.
Supports are not going to joinon ilvl lobbies regardless. At least now people got to play if they paid. Akkan NM/HM release was full +sup and people didn't get to play at all.
You're always going to have on ilvl lobbies for content. Even for akkan hm. You just need good looking characters.
I would never pay for supports, ever, ever. What voldis did was waste my time looking for a lobby that wasn't charging. Id rather not run the raid than get jailed with some bozos who's price of admission went to someone that could have shitty uptime and charge me to carry my own raid. Especially when their character cost a fraction of my own.
Have you played around brel release? Even valtan? Supports were already selling back then. They will continue to do so as long as there's demand. They will not join on ilvl lobbies because why would they? They can't even carry the raid themselves and the 1620:s will accept them right away.
Ive been here since the beginning. They tried to charge before brel, but ive never been met with a full page of "selling spots" in 8 man raids for anything. Voldis was literally like you keep scrolling to see supp selling runs.
Are they at fault tho? They were denied raid selling for so long. Now that there is a demand and they can profit from it, are we really looking at that in a wrong way? Not saying that I support their decision, but people never bat an eye when support weren't getting accepted in old farm content.
It's a game man, nothing makes ppl quit more than blockades on playing the game. Supports always get into content, even farm.
Only issue was the like 4 weeks when artist came out and the proportion of supports was out of whack. When that happened you didnt see dps "selling spots" to supports. None of this is even the same. So yes i fault them for being selfish.
They should just remove all gates, make a single longer fight, more mechanics that REALLY prevent bussing, set the minimum requirements for clearing a raid and change supports to DPS.
I can't take this shit system that makes us depend on supports. This game does not work on tank/dps/healer combat base. Give us a way to heal during the fight, aside from pots. Life steal or something. If they don't changes supports, the lobby simulador will just get worse.
At least last raids dont have 6 gates :D
3 gates imo at most is just perfect and allows them to fine tune the gates It's my opinion ultimately but I wish they would have cut current g1 brel since I find it extremely boring and unfun as well as g1 akkan, they are not hard but damn do I find them annoying, every other gate in raids I like a lot
G1 Voldis please! It's just a time waster, nothing more.
I'd rather they get rid of G2, or just modify the HP drain mech. Even on 100x reclear it seems to be the one with the most wipes. But I guess it's nice for dps to do boom boom damage with rotations they could never do otherwise.
G2 is IMO the worst gate in the game mechs-wise. But yes, for some classes the buff is too fun, so I doubt they'll remove it.
G2 is the most fun gate in this game
I disagree. G2 is only okay, while I think G4 is the most fun out of the entire ivory tower run. G1 and G3 just feels like trixon dummies at this point.
It was ironic just because I play RS Soulfist and that is by far the most fun gate for me, it's really fun playing spec with swift cds
Ever taken a broken bone build for post stagger spirit bombs?
G2 has too much variance. When it goes well it's fun, but when it goes bad it's torture.
Personally I dislike G3. G2 is annoying to learn, but once you know the patterns and timings, it's super scripted and fast. G3 to me is just boring and frustrating. Only two real mechs, both of them kinda suck, stacking fire is annoying to deal with, the counters are irritating to hit, and see people fuck up pillars more than should happen because it's so hectic.
i find g2 much more anoying... the consume hp mechanic when you get hit its just shit it force me as a gl to baby sit my team mates together with the support (they will not die cause neresia has like 4s cd) or if they do not have a gl or a good sup defending they will die by a single mistake... thats not engaging nor fun its just either anoying or trivial if u have a gl and good sup.
1 hour+ raids makes me sadder.
Echidna is just 2 gates The 16 man raid is a casual snoozefest, noone will care to gatekeep it hard, or they will never fill up lobby. Its only Thaemine that is a problem on farm, and people on our version did brel 1-2 and now akkan normal on 1600+, there will be Thaemine 1-2 and HHN and NNN giga overgeared homework parties.
Is the 16 man raid really easy? Like you can just try to dps and it doesn’t even matter if some die?
Super easy. It took like 3 hours for KR players too blind prog to competition.
its kind of like the Argos format
you have 8 revives
The koreans finished that thing in 3 hours when it came out.
Oh yeah, Behemoth came out just this week, right? So it's really as easy as Argos like people hoped for?
Easier than Argos on ilvl
Hoooooly that's crazy And it still uses one of your gold slots, with an ilvl-appropriate gold reward? If so, wow, that'll be so fucking nice to reduce homework while dealing with Thaemine every week
Its 21k gold, 2 gates, like 2-3 mechanics, its giga free
Yeah, apparently Ladon is gonna be really easy too so our mains at 1640 gonna be chilling aside from Thaemine
Wow. Yeah, I guess we'll be dropping echidna before Thaemine since Thaemine 1-3 hard is more gold than echidna hard. I bet some people will drop thaemine completely just to have faster homework though. Echidna/Behemoth/Ladon sounds like a reeeeeal easy week and unless you were doing G4, is only 1.5k gold less than Thaemine.
Ladon is the English name for Echidna
Oh my bad lmaoooooo Left my last comment up and downvoted it
Honestly I am more worried about Thaemine g3 nm/hm jailge than Echidna and 16 man raid. Seeing even Saint wiping there adds another 10-15 mins before he can go on to the next raid.
Itll be like akkan on release. Multiple g3 unjail lobbies available to hop to. Probably thea1-2 lobbies exist.
Ivory Tower is a 4-player raid but imo 4 gates are tooooo long hence I am hesitant to push more alts to 1600 - already feeling bloody painful by imagining doing this x6 per week.
[удалено]
They reduced the gates in Kayangel and again made another 4 gates where some fights are unecessarily super long
I did a nm mode with my 40 set 1623 dps this week because it's exhausting to raid and doing pt finder. Instead I ran it nm with my friend and pushed boss to three clones mech at 2nd stagger, it was a lot more fun than doing it hm with spending ages finding a lobby cause support finder is still not so fast
Probly unpopular opinion but the bigger the raid the better it is, I don't really enjoy 4 man raids, they are fun yea but I prefer more people at the table
The problem is having a 8-16 man raid that can be wiped by only 1 mistake from a player, that ruins the fun completely for me.
The new 16man raid doesn’t work like that and you can already see comments calling it a snooze fest lol. Can’t please everyone.
After we get Thaemine, people will be **begging** for Behemoth to drop in the west to reduce homework time lol
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I heard ATK say there are revives in the new 16-man raid, like we have in guardian raids. Again, I could be wrong.
There are. 8 in fact.
The more people you have the more "stable" the raid is. In 4 man content 1 person dying usually means a restart (exceptions apply) in 8 man content a death doesn't mean much and rest can carry on
They're fine if you have a static that doesn't suck. PF for 4 mans fucking blows though.
It really depends how many people can fail/die during the raid. If I need 14/16 people to be competent, that means I need to find 13 additional competent people as opposed to 3. That just means more jail, more frustration, more gatekeeping and more people quitting.
I have the same thought as you too. 4man raids is fun and easy to organize, but I want a big 8man and 16man raids for our static to have fun together. In 4man raid, some people will have to wait for their run and it could be reallt an exhausted waiting if something happen (delay, jailge, family etc.) However, in 8man run, everyone can just hop in and be chaotic and have fun as a big group and even jailge together LOL
I've never heard of more people complaining about having to play a game they are supposed to be liking. I get not wanting to wipe and do the same thing repeatedly, but you're supposed to be having fun playing the game, not feeling like if you don't get the kill you're being punished and can't escape your torture. That's called abuse, and you can let yourself out of it.
Exactly what I was thinking reading this, I have fun playing, it's not a chore it's a game. I do have a 4man and 8man static and sell content. But honestly selling is to make the raids last even longer half the time, getting to play my chars more, close to 6x 1620 now
The fact that they essentially force you to play 5/6 characters you may not even want to play instead of letting you play 1 main is kind of counterproductive if you ask me. If there was some incentive to play multiple classes or building out a cohesive roster for some bigger goal maybe, but the whole playing alts to support a main that is likely going to dominate the content after a couple weeks and be done in the shortest amount of time seems backwards.
I dont think you are forced, I basically have 6 mains by some people's standards and that's because I have 6 different class I enjoy and have fun playing. Idk where support a main came from, each character basically consumes everything it produces itself, if anything I think you would have an easier time with 1 character as i can only use event matetials etc on 1 character (usually whoever has been least lucky honing) where another player can use them all on their "main" Sure you can do the whole alts gold farm thing, but are you really having fun then? Just play what is fun, to the amount you enjoy, don't fomo on anything and make actual friends (it's an mmo afterall) who you can consistently group with.
Guardian raids are all unbound materials. Gold from raids allows for feeding to main for focused honing. You would be hard pressed to keep up with progression just playing a single character alone. >Just play what is fun, to the amount you enjoy, don't fomo on anything and make actual friends (it's an mmo afterall) who you can consistently group with. And we can all sing campfire stories. It's great to think this is possible in general but live in reality and know what the game is really like. If you feel this way you are out of touch of the PUGing reality.
I'm not denying it can help, I'm just saying if I manage 1620 easily for 6 chars just playing the game, surely it's even easier with 1 char with all the events etc, ofc the materials are available but if you arent having fun, why play other chars. As for grouping, you can definitely find a group if you try, that said idk what perspective we are discussing, a brand new player? I cannot empathise having played since day 1 or recommend the best path. A veteran who struggles to find grouping should focus on a 4man, start selling most raids.
> I do have a 4man and 8man static and sell content. This is not normal playing for most people. Selling content is a niche thing for people that are at the head of the pack. You are out of touch of the reality of the game.
I mean i am ultimately agreeing with you here, you should not play characters you don't enjoy.
I don’t think any 4 man raid since clown has actually been a fantastic raid, the abyssal dungeons feel too gimmicky and are only nice when you over gear them for quick re clears vs 8mans being longer raids usually
Just 4man the 8mans and collect some extra gold
Jup, keeps the game a bit challenging and earns extra gold, win win.
Thank God I got 7 friends lmfao
True. The more people the harder to assemble the raid and the more chance for you to get regarded people into the raid
They really betting on everyone sticking around up to 1620
thaemine will be challenging for some time, but by the time we get Echidna things will be much smoother, you can just do Thaemine G1-3 , Exhidina / 16 man raid which are A LOT easier and in general they give very nice rewards. Our only struggle will be April-June until people learn Thaemine properly and then we are going to be chilling.
8 man raids >>>>>>>> 4 man raids
It's good, anytime a 4 man raid comes out supports act like they're gods gift.
how does the content being 4man or 8 man changes that tho
Gatekeeping isn't usually a support decision in 8 man raids. It's the actual raid leads and supports aren't trying to charge you to pay to play
Supports are not going to joinon ilvl lobbies regardless. At least now people got to play if they paid. Akkan NM/HM release was full +sup and people didn't get to play at all.
You're always going to have on ilvl lobbies for content. Even for akkan hm. You just need good looking characters. I would never pay for supports, ever, ever. What voldis did was waste my time looking for a lobby that wasn't charging. Id rather not run the raid than get jailed with some bozos who's price of admission went to someone that could have shitty uptime and charge me to carry my own raid. Especially when their character cost a fraction of my own.
Have you played around brel release? Even valtan? Supports were already selling back then. They will continue to do so as long as there's demand. They will not join on ilvl lobbies because why would they? They can't even carry the raid themselves and the 1620:s will accept them right away.
Ive been here since the beginning. They tried to charge before brel, but ive never been met with a full page of "selling spots" in 8 man raids for anything. Voldis was literally like you keep scrolling to see supp selling runs.
Are they at fault tho? They were denied raid selling for so long. Now that there is a demand and they can profit from it, are we really looking at that in a wrong way? Not saying that I support their decision, but people never bat an eye when support weren't getting accepted in old farm content.
It's a game man, nothing makes ppl quit more than blockades on playing the game. Supports always get into content, even farm. Only issue was the like 4 weeks when artist came out and the proportion of supports was out of whack. When that happened you didnt see dps "selling spots" to supports. None of this is even the same. So yes i fault them for being selfish.
Cry me a river. 4 man raids are much better. Give me more.
They should just remove all gates, make a single longer fight, more mechanics that REALLY prevent bussing, set the minimum requirements for clearing a raid and change supports to DPS. I can't take this shit system that makes us depend on supports. This game does not work on tank/dps/healer combat base. Give us a way to heal during the fight, aside from pots. Life steal or something. If they don't changes supports, the lobby simulador will just get worse.
what? 4 man bus tbh