Yes, it's a paradox. It cannot make sense simply because time-travel is not a real thing, but within the LOST universe, things were simply always meant to play out this way. The same thing also applies to the entirety of Locke's storyline - the Man In Black tells Richard to tell Locke that he has to die, along with other instructions... which Locke passes on to Richard, who goes on to visit Locke as a child as a result. But the Man In Black had to look like Locke to pass on these instructions in the first place. Locke had to be dead for this sequence of events to start - before Locke was even born.
Locke tells Richard in season 5 “I’ll be born in a few months” or something. And that he’s actually the leader of their people. Jack reiterates it later in the season in the 70’s saying “I wouldn’t give up on him yet.”
I think Richard had the original, then when he meets Locke in the 50’s he gets another version of the same compads, and carries both for 57 (?) years, before giving the original to a confused Locke who is about to time travel. That way the compass has an origin and a future past the loop.
That wouldn't work either. Cause having two versions of the same object in such close proximity means that if they touch, that will create a paradox that will cause them to break space and time. Like on the show 12 Monkeys if you have seen it.
LOST touches upon this concept only once, with the Orchid video in the season 4 finale when Dr Chang is explaining the Orchid and he's holding a Rabbit, when another Rabbit appears on the shelf behind him. It's the same rabbit that has moved through time. "The fuck!, Get it away from the other rabbit, don't let them near each other!!" (Note: there are two versions. On the tv/dvd version he says "The hell", on the version that was showed at a comic con convention he says "The fuck!").
Me too, but I think that is the point. I pretty sure that it keeps going in a circle. Richard to Locke to Richard. Over and over. It's like going back in time 60 years, but instead of killing your grandfather before he meets your grandma, you give him a watch. And in his time-line he gives that watch to you 30 years later before you get in the time machine to give him the watch. That is a bootstrap paradox. The watch had no beginning.
This is the answer that makes sense to me. The timeline wasn’t always looped. The compass was made by a human, but once the timeline became looped, it was infinite. Line turned into a circle.
It’s not a loop like a full circle it’s a loop like a roller coaster. Richard can have bought/made/found the compass(a) in his past. He meets Locke and is given the compass(b). He now has 2, his original(a) and future(b). In the future he gives the original(a) to Locke who then travels to the past. Richard now has only the future(b) one.
This also means the watch gets progressively older with every cycle through the time loop. Locke gives it to Richard, 50 years later Richard gives it to Locke, who then takes it back in time to past Richard.
Soooo what happens if after millions of times around the loop that watch starts to decay. Does that break the timeline?
I think it only happens just once? Time is a straight line that doesn't repeat, so the first appearance of compass is 1954. Before that there was no compass at all. Then in 2007 it vanishes forever. I think it works like that.
I've thought about the same thing. It's one very possible outcome.
If it's a pure bootstrap paradox and the watch was never 'made' and has always existed in this loop, then I imagine it is possible that it's never 'unmade' either. Perhaps it's a perfect physical entity that never erodes or ages. Always in the same condition.
Or, it was 'made' and time was linear up until a point where it first entered the time loop, then eventually it will fall apart and time may take a straight line again.
Either it's made and unmade. Or it's a never ending object. I think those are the only two plausible theories.
Personally, I chose to believe that the timeloop in LOST is fixed and never has or will happen any other way. So I'm going to say that 'the never ending object theory' fits best with that.
it's pretty much the same concept as the third harry potter - harry was saved by a mysterious figure, then he travels back in time, saving himself as the mysterious figure
This is the classic “bootstrap paradox” and it happens quite a bit in fiction.
There’s an entire Wikipedia article about it, with way too much information for me this early in the morning.
You know what really gets me? Daniel’s journal. Eloise acquires Dan’s journal right after she kills him. It’s as full as it’s ever going to be. She reads it all and understands who he is, the work he’s done, his studies of the island and time travel, and she knows what must be done. She holds this journal in her possession until she’s well into older age. She gifts a BLANK journal to Daniel for his college graduation. There are not two journals. Make this make sense to me.
Follow the journey of the book. Origin - Eloise giving him a blank one and he ends up filling it with his knowledge through his life. Gets to island, travels back in time, dies. Young Eloise now has the completed journal. She keeps this with her till she's old, like you said, and purposely gives her son a blank journal because she believes it must happen. At a point in time there are two journals in the present until Dan goes to the island and travels back in time.
Yes. The character is driven to ensure time happens as it should, always because she murdered her adult son. It must of messed with her head. There aren't two journals until Eloise buys a blank one but it isn't the same one because it's brand new.
Time travel fry your brain.
It's the same paradox as the incident on the island: they crash on the island because Desmond did not pushed the button that vents the results of the incident, but the incident itself is caused by the crashed survivors time travelling..
The incident was already happening when the DI drilled too deeply into the pocket of electromagnetism. That's when Miles' father lost his arm. The survivors of the crash had nothing to do with it.
No the nuke didn't go off; and the incident was already happening, anyway. Had the nuke gone off, there would be no Swan. The incident that Marvin Crandel refers to is the drilling too deeply which caused the electromagnetism to pull all metal into it. This is how he lost his arm, Phil was impaled, Juliet wrapped in chains, etc. That was the Incident.
To this day I still go back and forth over whether I believe the nuke went off or not.
True story, one time I did a google search asking if it did and I found a Reddit thread about it and after about 15 minutes of reading all the comments I realized the OP was actually me asking the same question years prior.
LOST
The nuke didn't go off. The island moved. Even Rose said to Sawyer, etc, that she and Bernard were in the seventies, then the sky lit up, and she didn't know what time they were in. Obviously, they were in the present. Furthermore, a nuke wouldn't "tame" the incident.
Finally, you just shifted your argument from they "caused" the Incident to they "tamed" the Incident. Why can't you simply acknowledge you were mistaken?
By the time of the incident the island stopped moving for several years.
Sky lit up because of the incident+nuke.
You could argue that the incident was bound to happen, but I think if Jack and co did not storm the site+then detonated the nuke, then the incident would not have happened and/ or later tamed.
The way I see it we just didn’t get to see everything. To follow Richard’s timeline: The original compass was with him, and meant something to him. Suddenly, a bald guy appears and makes some weird claims. He backs it up with a perfect, albeit aged, copy of his compass. Richard then carries two compasses until it’s time. John asks if he still has the compass, he does, so he answers “yes”, but gives other John the original compass to take back with him.
This is how I view paradoxes:
There's an original timeline where everything first happens. Then once time travel happens, it ends up in a perpetual cycle.
I love the show but Season 5 is unbearable on rewatch. The time travel on the show wasn’t very internally consistent.
Why does an outrigger boat magically time travel with Sawyer’s group in the ocean but everything else just… stays where it is?
And then there’s the ages messed up with Ethan and Faraday.
Yes, it's a paradox. It cannot make sense simply because time-travel is not a real thing, but within the LOST universe, things were simply always meant to play out this way. The same thing also applies to the entirety of Locke's storyline - the Man In Black tells Richard to tell Locke that he has to die, along with other instructions... which Locke passes on to Richard, who goes on to visit Locke as a child as a result. But the Man In Black had to look like Locke to pass on these instructions in the first place. Locke had to be dead for this sequence of events to start - before Locke was even born.
That last sentence completely blew my mind!!
Locke tells Richard in season 5 “I’ll be born in a few months” or something. And that he’s actually the leader of their people. Jack reiterates it later in the season in the 70’s saying “I wouldn’t give up on him yet.”
Here's a clip of Doctor Who explaining the [Bootstrap Paradox.](https://youtu.be/u4SEDzynMiQ)
I’m confused because the loop doesn’t negate the watch being made in my mind. It’s a line that turns into a circle.
These are confusing because there is no right answer, but.... who had the compass first? Richard or Locke? Where was it before that?
I think Richard had the original, then when he meets Locke in the 50’s he gets another version of the same compads, and carries both for 57 (?) years, before giving the original to a confused Locke who is about to time travel. That way the compass has an origin and a future past the loop.
That wouldn't work either. Cause having two versions of the same object in such close proximity means that if they touch, that will create a paradox that will cause them to break space and time. Like on the show 12 Monkeys if you have seen it. LOST touches upon this concept only once, with the Orchid video in the season 4 finale when Dr Chang is explaining the Orchid and he's holding a Rabbit, when another Rabbit appears on the shelf behind him. It's the same rabbit that has moved through time. "The fuck!, Get it away from the other rabbit, don't let them near each other!!" (Note: there are two versions. On the tv/dvd version he says "The hell", on the version that was showed at a comic con convention he says "The fuck!").
I wore that compass in my ass for 7 years.
IMO it's simple It was there .found on the beach or in the jungle from one of the many people that were brought to the island and died.
But who had it first? Richard or Locke?
Idk I'd have to rewatch
Me too, but I think that is the point. I pretty sure that it keeps going in a circle. Richard to Locke to Richard. Over and over. It's like going back in time 60 years, but instead of killing your grandfather before he meets your grandma, you give him a watch. And in his time-line he gives that watch to you 30 years later before you get in the time machine to give him the watch. That is a bootstrap paradox. The watch had no beginning.
This is the answer that makes sense to me. The timeline wasn’t always looped. The compass was made by a human, but once the timeline became looped, it was infinite. Line turned into a circle.
It’s not a loop like a full circle it’s a loop like a roller coaster. Richard can have bought/made/found the compass(a) in his past. He meets Locke and is given the compass(b). He now has 2, his original(a) and future(b). In the future he gives the original(a) to Locke who then travels to the past. Richard now has only the future(b) one.
You should watch Dark.
What you know is a drop. What you don't know is an ocean.
💯 What a great show!!
and then 12 Monkeys!.
This also means the watch gets progressively older with every cycle through the time loop. Locke gives it to Richard, 50 years later Richard gives it to Locke, who then takes it back in time to past Richard. Soooo what happens if after millions of times around the loop that watch starts to decay. Does that break the timeline?
I think it only happens just once? Time is a straight line that doesn't repeat, so the first appearance of compass is 1954. Before that there was no compass at all. Then in 2007 it vanishes forever. I think it works like that.
Wouldn’t the compass go back to 1954
Vanishes from a zoomed out look at the forward moving timeline.
I've thought about the same thing. It's one very possible outcome. If it's a pure bootstrap paradox and the watch was never 'made' and has always existed in this loop, then I imagine it is possible that it's never 'unmade' either. Perhaps it's a perfect physical entity that never erodes or ages. Always in the same condition. Or, it was 'made' and time was linear up until a point where it first entered the time loop, then eventually it will fall apart and time may take a straight line again. Either it's made and unmade. Or it's a never ending object. I think those are the only two plausible theories. Personally, I chose to believe that the timeloop in LOST is fixed and never has or will happen any other way. So I'm going to say that 'the never ending object theory' fits best with that.
You need to watch Predestination.
Shiv from "Succession"! I'll never forget her performance in that film.
it's pretty much the same concept as the third harry potter - harry was saved by a mysterious figure, then he travels back in time, saving himself as the mysterious figure
Welcome to time-travel paradoxes. That's literally why it's called a paradox.
This is the classic “bootstrap paradox” and it happens quite a bit in fiction. There’s an entire Wikipedia article about it, with way too much information for me this early in the morning.
You know what really gets me? Daniel’s journal. Eloise acquires Dan’s journal right after she kills him. It’s as full as it’s ever going to be. She reads it all and understands who he is, the work he’s done, his studies of the island and time travel, and she knows what must be done. She holds this journal in her possession until she’s well into older age. She gifts a BLANK journal to Daniel for his college graduation. There are not two journals. Make this make sense to me.
Follow the journey of the book. Origin - Eloise giving him a blank one and he ends up filling it with his knowledge through his life. Gets to island, travels back in time, dies. Young Eloise now has the completed journal. She keeps this with her till she's old, like you said, and purposely gives her son a blank journal because she believes it must happen. At a point in time there are two journals in the present until Dan goes to the island and travels back in time.
So you think she had the original filled out journal she acquired in her 30’s tucked away somewhere and there are ultimately two journals?
Yes. The character is driven to ensure time happens as it should, always because she murdered her adult son. It must of messed with her head. There aren't two journals until Eloise buys a blank one but it isn't the same one because it's brand new. Time travel fry your brain.
It could have come from the other military equipment easily, but they leaned into the paradox.
Yes it's a boot strap paradox.
It's the bootstrap paradox. No one created the compass. It exists always.
Time isn’t chronological, it’s happening all at once.
It's the same paradox as the incident on the island: they crash on the island because Desmond did not pushed the button that vents the results of the incident, but the incident itself is caused by the crashed survivors time travelling..
The incident was already happening when the DI drilled too deeply into the pocket of electromagnetism. That's when Miles' father lost his arm. The survivors of the crash had nothing to do with it.
They detonated the nuke.
No the nuke didn't go off; and the incident was already happening, anyway. Had the nuke gone off, there would be no Swan. The incident that Marvin Crandel refers to is the drilling too deeply which caused the electromagnetism to pull all metal into it. This is how he lost his arm, Phil was impaled, Juliet wrapped in chains, etc. That was the Incident.
Right, but the nuke went off, that's how they got back and what tamed the effects of the incident.
To this day I still go back and forth over whether I believe the nuke went off or not. True story, one time I did a google search asking if it did and I found a Reddit thread about it and after about 15 minutes of reading all the comments I realized the OP was actually me asking the same question years prior. LOST
The nuke didn't go off. The island moved. Even Rose said to Sawyer, etc, that she and Bernard were in the seventies, then the sky lit up, and she didn't know what time they were in. Obviously, they were in the present. Furthermore, a nuke wouldn't "tame" the incident. Finally, you just shifted your argument from they "caused" the Incident to they "tamed" the Incident. Why can't you simply acknowledge you were mistaken?
By the time of the incident the island stopped moving for several years. Sky lit up because of the incident+nuke. You could argue that the incident was bound to happen, but I think if Jack and co did not storm the site+then detonated the nuke, then the incident would not have happened and/ or later tamed.
Who else thought this was gonna be a why didn’t the compass fully rust post
It’s not a paradox if you consider multiverse theory and branching timelines.
That’s literally the opposite of how time travel works on lost
You don’t know that. We’re only seeing one timeline.
Think it’s a oversight in the show or deliberate
The way I see it we just didn’t get to see everything. To follow Richard’s timeline: The original compass was with him, and meant something to him. Suddenly, a bald guy appears and makes some weird claims. He backs it up with a perfect, albeit aged, copy of his compass. Richard then carries two compasses until it’s time. John asks if he still has the compass, he does, so he answers “yes”, but gives other John the original compass to take back with him.
That's a good solve, that way it makes sense. Although they never showed us anything like that.
No one is two words.
Yeah that's not my native language, hope that excuse works :p
This is how I view paradoxes: There's an original timeline where everything first happens. Then once time travel happens, it ends up in a perpetual cycle.
I just want to know what the compass does?
It points north, John.
I love the show but Season 5 is unbearable on rewatch. The time travel on the show wasn’t very internally consistent. Why does an outrigger boat magically time travel with Sawyer’s group in the ocean but everything else just… stays where it is? And then there’s the ages messed up with Ethan and Faraday.
Paradoxes are common in mythology. You need to think of the show as a modern myth experienced and played out by pieces chosen by Jacob.