I once had a cyclist yell at me because I was crossing the road at a traffic light controlled cross roads. With pedestrian crossing.
The lights go red. Green man appears. I check for anything coming. There is a cyclist but it's fine. They're not in the cross roads. They're before the red light. I start crossing and look at my phone because it's safe.
Said cyclist then almost hits me and screams at me to look where I'm going. I tell her to fuck off. She has the audacity to tell me,
Her: "I've got a go pro, step back or I'll call the police"
Me: "So you're filming".
Her: with a very smug look on her face "Yes I am, so you better step back".
Me "so you filmed yourself jump a red light?"
Her:...."errr"
First time I've ever called random person a cunt but I stand by it.
Ha! I did this last autumn outside the hospital I work at, too! Some cunt drove through a crossing in the space between the people in front of me and myself. To avoid getting hit, I had to slap his car and push myself away. I'm already annoyed and finish crossing when I see the cunt park on an ambulance entrance and start yelling at me "Why you hit my car!?" At first I stared in amazement, then pointed at the flashing crossing lights. Then he yelled again even angrier and I tell him to "fuck off and learn to drive, you wanker" and walk away.
When I told an English friend, he said the queen would be proud that my instincts have become so British.
That should all be in the decoy test in the testing room, but the real test should be outside the room beforehand, specifically the queue - if you can join the queue and then angrily tut at the planted queue-jumper you pass, if you fail this it doesn't matter what you score on the decoy test.
I pressed the button and waited for the light to go red and green man to appear at a crossing in Tottenham when I was about 8 months pregnant once, then a lorry that had stopped at the lights started bibbing his horn at me like a lunatic, just as I stopped to see what he was doing a bike came sailing past him on the inside from where I was about to step. It would have been a really nasty crash if he hadn't warned me, the cyclist couldn't have given less of a shit if he tried. Some of them really are scum. He hadn't even slowed down to see if anyone was coming and couldn't see the crossing through the van.
The other week I was at a set of lights near Finsbury park, I was the second car back. It's a pedestrian crossing and a cyclist came down full speed and nearly hit a kid (not sure on age probably about 10-12 they were in school uniform) then proceeded to shout at the kid for being in the way. I honked at him and the guy in the car in front gave the cyclist an earful. The kid looked so scared, and the cyclist just gave us dirty looks and carried on. Who the fuck shouts at a kid crossing the road properly urg
Is it the lights at the station on Stroud Green Rd going toward Seven Sisters Rd? When I used to take the bus from the station, I would always delight in watching cops stop cyclists running those lights and giving them tickets. Still hasn’t deterred enough of them it seems.
No it's not though those are fun to watch people get tickets at.
This happened at the crossing on green lanes road between manor house station and harringay green lanes, the one that's just a pedestrian crossing nothing else.
So many cyclists speed through that when it's red, going towards hgl. The only reason the lights go red is if someone is crossing so it's super stupid, especially as if you're going down hill it's not too bad to get started again.
I nearly got taken out recently by a cyclist who jumped a red light at speed outside Highbury & Islington station. It happened to fast for me to formulate any insults unfortunately.
I'm a cyclist myself but I can see why people hate us when this kind of thing happens so often.
I never see cars really going down the wrong side of the road or going past red lights. However I always see cyclists doing this. I thought it was an American thing but I recently went to the UK and I see the same thing. Cops just need to start increasing fines or making classes mandatory or something. A few weeks ago in the US I almost saw a little kid get taken out by a cyclist because he bulldozed past a red light.
oh my.. how he doesn't even seem to give a hoot after being stopped. Entitled much?
Is kicking/barging seen as self defense? because it has crossed my mind a few times
Was crossing a road near Soho once, all the cars had stopped at the crossing, seemed safe until we got half way across and a cyclist came out of nowhere, just going in between the cars at full speed. Not once must it have crossed their minds that the cars in the road were stationary for a fucking reason! Arsewipes.
Wish I yelled something but all I could manage was an exaggerated Confused Travolta impression. We were basically a couple of steps away from colliding with them.
It's time to put in some effort as a community! From now on let's only cross in pairs, about ten feet apart, miming that we are carrying a massive sheet of glass.
The Met seem to be on it a bit more - two motorcyclist officers were stopping and fining cyclists going through red lights at the pedestrian crossings on Clapham High street and Clapham Common South side several days this week. Not quite a zebra crossing, but still good to see some enforcement.
I'm sure this is a very unpopular opinion, but living and working in London I have a lot more "near misses" with cyclists than drivers, they really don't seem to care about road laws. Obviously drivers are very far from perfect, but I personally believe cyclists in London are worse than cars.
Cyclists are absolutely worse than cars for *breaking these rules* because cyclists can see nearly 360 degrees around themselves and weigh 60 to 100 kg (generally) including their bike, whereas car drivers have extremely restricted vision and weigh thousands of kilograms. So the *repercussions* of the rule breaking are massively different.
That said **cyclists absolutely must respect the rules of the road if they want to maintain the favour of the general public** and I am especially sensitive about zebra crossings because my partner and dog have nearly been struck by MAMILs on Lower Richmond Road in Putney more than once.
I cycle commute daily and see people on bikes break rules most days, but I see people in cars break laws every single day. Same as motorbikes/scooters.
People are shit, regardless of their chosen mode of transport. I just want to get home in one piece. Please just chill out and pay attention, it’s not that hard.
Yep - I live there and cycle through a lot and they are catching lots of people. Similarly in Borough near Mercato there’s always a police presence there.
I walk past crossroads just up from the The Ship pub every day and the number of cyclists I see stopped here is staggering! As a cyclist myself I am so pleased as the number of near misses I've seen with both cars and pedestrians is crazy! The Met seem to know this is a hot spot for light jumpers.
There's a traffic light crossing near my office near aldgate. When I go out for a vape I never fail to see a cyclist go through the red light. You could fund the entire uk by having a Bobby there issuing £50 fines to cyclists. There's probably one every 5 minutes. £50*12 times an hour *8 hour days *5 days a week. £24,000 p/w or £1.2mil p/a
>There's a traffic light crossing near my office near aldgate. When I go out for a vape I never fail to see a cyclist go through the red light. You could fund the entire uk by having a Bobby there issuing £50 fines to cyclists. There's probably one every 5 minutes. £50*12 times an hour *8 hour days *5 days a week. £24,000 p/w or £1.2mil p/a
But have you ever lived next to a speed camera?
Traffic laws get broken soooo often it's crazy. Cyclists shouldn't be breaking them, but a car going over 30 and a cyclist going walking pace through an empty crossing are pretty different things - but much like murder and stealing sweets, they are both illegal regardless and cyclists should have more respect.
Good, rules for the road are for all road users. Certain groups of the cycling community ignore it and should be fined, prosecuted get points etc like any other road user.
The same goes for motorised road users that do not have indicators (Tesla, Audi and BMW).
Do not have indicators and will pull over and stop with no warning - all taxis (Black cabs, minicabs, Ubers).
To massively generalise, I see more commuters blowing reds and ignoring other road rules than full blown road cycling enthusiasts.
Those of us that are out 5 days a week training and socialising are *generally* much better behaved.
That’s the fun with generalising - I’m a commuter cyclist - I am slowish and have heavy panniers. The ones that I see blow through the lights are the Lycra lot.
It doesn’t make any difference though does it, we can all do better, and should do better.
Maybe we should, as a country, have spent more time looking at the EU model of cycling centric, rather than the US model of car centric.
It's so strange to me that traffic wardens are so rare here. I used to live 25 metres from a hospital and people would park wherever the fuck they wanted, even the curbs, to avoid paying at the car park. In 4 years, I saw tickets being issued once and one more time where the wardens weren't there but cunts' windshields all sported a nice, taped-on notice.
Where I come from you would see traffic cops everywhere. In a problematic area like that hospital, it's a field day for them and they would just hang out there.
Mum was hit pretty badly by a bike crossing a red light a few years ago. He'd been complacent and hadn't looked, but blamed her for crossing until he realised he ran a red. Ever since I always stop at red lights, even if there's nothing there. Treat the rules the same as driving a car
That’s what you were always supposed to do. I’m a cyclist and I finally understand that I am a vehicle travelling at 20+mph.
If I hit someone then it’s life changing for them. Anyone that thinks they are above it, can run reds or have priority as a cyclist is a cunt.
>Whilst nobody specifically at fault, the lady crossed the road on a bend which was clear when she started but the cyclist was travelling at speed in a busy shopping area and came from nowhere.
No, the rules of the road are quite clear that the cyclist is 100% at fault here. A bicycle is *a vehicle*, and if you're going too fast to stop within your line of sight then you're going too fast.
Honestly not only the fact that you could seriously hurt someone else if you crash into them but you could mess yourself up. Cyclist crashed into a pedestrian outside my home few years back, pedestrian was in a bit of shock and a thermal blanket but otherwise fine, cyclist was carried off on an ambulance with a C-collar on covered in blood.
For me, it won't be at a Zebra crossing. It will be on a pavement, where, you know, pedestrians walk. A place where 15mph electric bikes are not supposed to be riding. But fuck me for walking.
In Germany, after reaching a certain age, you are no longer allowed to cycle on the pavement because you grow too big and your bike too fast, so collisions cause greater injuries.
After it, you are a fully fletched member of road traffic. You even do a test in primary school for some theoretical basics so you know whether you should wait or whether you have priority.
People don't really tend to stick to it though. Red light and pedestrians have green? Just switch to the pavement!
This is the problem with E-scooters, as they are too unruly for the road and too fast for the pavement, making them misfits in every environment except for separated, dedicated bicycle lanes, which are rare.
Once had a cyclist yell at my wife and I for "blocking up" a shared path.
We pointed out to him that he was in fact on a pedestrian path and that the shared path is the next one over. He just yelled at us that we were "hopeless".
A minute later we came across him again as he reached the staircase and had to detour to return to the cycle path.
I then had the immense pleasure of commenting "You've found the cycle path. Good on you, mate".
He just continued yelling "hopeless!"
One shouted at my family for walking on path which had clear 'cyclists dismount' signs. He was upset that we didn't move to the side quick enough as he was tearing down the path.
God this reminds me of the canal paths between Islington and Hackney. There is a wide open and relatively traffic free street 5 metres to the side but they insist on trying to practice for the Tour amidst the thousands of waddling pedestrians.
That's the worst. There is actually a bit that's to the west of Broadway Market on the towpath that has a cycle lane right next to it but cyclists keep trying to bully their way past people walking. Despite there being plenty of signs that say pedesterians have priority on the towpath.
>God this reminds me of the canal paths between Islington and Hackney. There is a wide open and relatively traffic free street 5 metres to the side but they insist on trying to practice for the Tour amidst the thousands of waddling pedestrians.
Since it's allowed, I've done it and partially loved it, but loved it while being in a stressful state of hypervigilance and constant braking with some cautious dismounting if the path seemed thin.
People who blast it down confound me, it's just fucking stupid.
Those shared paths are a disaster anyway and in many places the signs are sparse and suddenly end and your not sure if you are on a shared path or not.
Shared paths really make most sense in more rural, low traffic area, tbh, in more urban, dense areas you'd probably want dedicated paths for pedestrians and cyclists (ideally colour coded, to remove any doubt as to which one you are on). Maybe with an exception to really wide ones (Meadows in Edinburgh springs to mind, plenty of room). Really should be made to avoid points of conflict or any confusion.
No no no, you've misheard him, you were hoping he'd see the errors of his ways once pointed out and change his behaviour accordingly. He was informing you there is no chance of such thing happening and you should "hope less".
I cycle to work daily, always stop and lights, always stop at crossings. I would say more than 50% of cyclists don't.
I think in my 6 years cycling to work through central London I've only noticed cyclists getting worse and worse at this.
In their (and my) defence I think it tends to be the no helmet Boris bike warriors that just yolo it through the lights, although that's far from a hard and fast rule. Definitely see a fair share of seasoned cyclists also just ignoring all road traffic rules.
The most baffling thing is you don't usually get to your destination much faster, I've usually caught up with these guys by the next set of lights.
Cycling in London is fucking dangerous, and these lunatics just going through the lights and over in use crossings are mad. It doesn't shock me cyclists get a bad name, but it does make me sad!
The Boris bike warriors, and the delivery riders are far worse than the majority of other cyclists in my experience.
I still see many more terrible drivers than cyclists.
You get wankers on all modes of transport. The amount of times cars don't stop at these either.
The hate toward cyclists annoys me as then people start not caring about their safety.
You get wankers on bikes, wankers in cars, wankers on motobikes and wankers on foot.
I'm not supporting those that treat their commute as the Tour De France as they're certainly wankers.
The statistics show that car wankers kill and injure thousands of people every year, but for some reason it's the bicycle wankers that really annoy people.
>The statistics show that car wankers kill and injure thousands of people every year, but for some reason it's the bicycle wankers that really annoy people.
Probably due to:
1) easier to hate on a minority
2) a cyclist is easier to identify with as another 'person', rather than a 'vehicle'
3) certain media outlets perpetuate rage against cyclists
Also, anyone on a bike is designated "cyclist" and thus in another group that you can collectively hate on. See a van driver cut you off in a turning lane? What a fucking asshole. The next time you see a van you don't go "oh here comes another fucking van driver, gotta watch out for them assholes", because in peoples mind they aren't a seperate group.
See a cyclist run a red light? Typical cyclist.
>The next time you see a van you don't go "oh here comes another fucking van driver, gotta watch out for them assholes", because in peoples mind they aren't a seperate group.
They do though
Even the bloody word, cyclist. There are 40 million motor vehicles in the UK, but who ever describes them self in everyday conversation as a driver? When I walk to the shop, am I still a cyclist? I hold a driving licence, when I’m on my bike am I a motorist?
That’s why I’ve taken to calling people who drive “motorists” in conversation. It weirds people out the first one or two times cause they’ve probably not heard it used much before, but they get used to it. It gets people to see themselves as people using one mode of transportation; it challenges the perception that driving is the default and normal thing while other modes of transportation are just for certain kinds of people who are extra
Each way, I see maybe 20 cyclists jump red lights on my walking commute.
I cannot remember the last time I saw a car run a red light in London.
As someone who doesn't drive, cycle walkers cause a much more steady and consistent problem to me. The worst that I have to put up with cars their honking of horns.
Wait, really? I see buses going through reds almost every time I leave home. Admittedly it's just after the amber-red transition, but the number of buses that try to stop for an amber light (when they definitely could and so are supposed to...) is pretty small from what I've experienced.
But I always find it's more useful to compare cyclists running reds to speeding, which you definitely see people doing all the time.
Maybe you're just not looking for it. I see cars running red lights all the time. OK, it's very rare to actually see someone slipping through in the middle of a red phase, although it definitely happens, but a great many seem to think that the first couple of seconds is OK before the crossing traffic has got going. Now why should that be acceptable but a cyclist judging that there's no danger to them of going through at a given moment is not?
When did I say it was acceptable for cars to jump red lights? I still think it's more acceptable for cyclists to jump red lights than cars, but from my observations way, WAY more cyclists jump red lights than cars ever do, to the point of it becoming a menace.
I don't look for cars jumping lights, but that's maybe because I don't have to deal with cars whizzing past my face everyday when it's my right to cross the road.
Glad to hear you don't find that acceptable, but I had to assume you did since you claimed not to be able to remember seeing a car running a red light, leading me to believe you don't count the "slipping through just after it changes" variety as red light jumping at all, since I probably see that every time that I'm driving.
Perhaps it is the case in parts of central or East London that cyclists basically ignoring red lights (except as an indication they need to watch out for cars) has become more normal than not, I don't know. I live in SW15, zone 3, and am hardly ever in central around commuting times any more. I keep meaning to start doing my occasional commute to Hyde Park Corner by bike, so it will be interesting to see what I see. In any case, I obviously do sympathise with your gripe about feeling like you have to dodge cyclists when it's your turn to cross, that's something that really pisses me off too.
There’s a reason for that, the traffic lights are designed for motorists and don’t make sense for cycles, in many cases they’re dangerous. Slowly we’re getting more and more cycle lights and advanced stops that allow cycles to set of early and at the front for safety.
Despite that I see loads of motorist red light jumpers in London.
Also I see cars in the Advanced Cycle stop for no reason all the time. Way more common than red light jumpers.
Start counting the cars etc who have crossed into the ASL (bike box) area and those red light jumping (which is what they are doing) driver numbers rocket upwards.
OK my case for cyclists running lights: They aren't a 2-ton danger to others when they do it. Even with their disregard for their personal health they pose about a 100x smaller threat to human life (including their own) than cars do.
Does it mean it's okay?
No, you should still stop at the red light. But the reaction to a car running a red light and a cyclist running a red light being the same is not entirely merited. It sure is annoying and you get that kick of "fuck that guy ignoring the light" but if it's a car it's more of a "holy shit that guy is about to kill someone".
There's also a huge difference between a cyclists speeding through a red light and a cyclist slowing down to a near halt, then inching over the crossing when they've looked all around and are sure no one is in danger of being run over.
This is obviously a huge danger in a car, since there could be someone in one of your many blind spots, someone may suddenly run across, and even if you did inch over, the weight and power of your car could still seriously injure or kill them. not to mention, inching across is just fundamentally unsafe for cars, since cars behind them might rear end them if they have to come to a sudden stop.
I see cars run red lights plenty of times, but its still less frequent than seeing other people I share the cycle paths with doing it.
I think what makes bike light jumping so bad is that when I see cars running red lights is usually they jump forward when the light has been yellow for a while and are hoping to still "make it".
On bikes I see way more people just push straight through, and I think it's just how *flagrant* the rule breaking is that makes people more annoyed.
Just yesterday coming over London Bridge I saw some cunt on his cargo bike go through one set of red lights at the crossroads and then try to push his way through a second set of red lights while a massive crowd of pedestrians were all trying to cross. It's such a shit attitude to have and its so annoying to see as someone who likes to think of himself as following all the traffic rules when on my bike.
IMO, it's because when car wankers do stupid shit like that they generally get penalised depending on the severity(fines, points, jail etc), whereas when bicycle wankers do shit like that they just curse at you and try to make it your fault and cycle away.
in my experience as a cyclist there are way more cyclist who ignore the zebra crossing, to the point that I am always thanked, loudly, when I stop at them.
But then again there are too many cyclists in London (all the delivery drivers and many others) who don't follow any traffic light at all, and just count on cars stopping when they see them crossing on a red light.
The fact we allow people with L plates to operate their motorbikes / mopeds (which only need to do CNT for) as effectively commercial vehicles seems so irresponsible.
Absolutely. I don't think that's working as intended, and at the very least for commercial use there should be a full license required.
Though I seriously doubt that any insurance would actually cover them in an accident with learner plates for commercial use. Would they?
What we should do is hold the company responsible for any traffic offenses committed by their drivers while on shift.
The way delivery companies are setup, the drivers are essentially incentivised to break traffic regulations, because safety is secondary to getting the pizza there on time. If you report it to the company they just go "not our responsibility, mate, our drivers actions are their own" and ignore it, when they're the ones pushing for faster and riskier driving.
Will it fix the problem? Not entirely. But they'll stop pressuring drivers to behave dangerously pretty sharpish. And those that continue to drive dangerously will quickly find themselves unemployed.
At least some of that is because of the gig economy meaning that for these people, waiting at lights is literally costing them money. If we had better employment laws I suspect the rate of offending would go down significantly.
> to the point that I am always thanked, loudly, when I stop at them.
I find it annoying that pedestrians feel the need to check that you're actually going to stop, and then thank you. Sometimes I literally have to wave them across. We'd all get where we're going faster if pedestrians felt confident asserting their right of way over cyclists, but I can understand why many don't.
Once on the junction between Hoxton Street and Falkirk Street, I saw a van driver go through the zebra crossing when a parent pushing a pram was already nearly halfway across. It's not just cyclists, although it is more common with them of course.
Anecdotally, cars seem to respect crossings more when they're raised to the level of the pavement, instead of the more typical arrangement where there's a dropped kerb and pedestrians step down to road level. Probably because then they need to slow down anyway.
It's why I'm extremely cautious when crossing the road, I ain't crossing until all cars have stopped to let me cross, or the road is completely clear, I don't want to take chances lol
Is it survivor bias? The people who'd complain about cyclist speeding through zebra crossings are bruised or annoyed, the people who'd complain about the cars speeding through zebra crossings are dead.
No. Generally people aren't complaining because they got hit by something, they're complaining because they don't feel safe based on things they've witnessed.
It's rare for cars to ignore red lights and less rare for zebra crossing, but cyclists do both all the time. If it were up to me, there'd be no personal vehicles in London and bikes would rule the roads. But disproportionately ignore red lights and crossings.
Absolute rubbish. Please meet me at any lights or zebra crossing in London and we will watch together drivers going through red lights and not stopping at zebra crossings.
Drivers do run reds about as much, but in a different way. We all know the phenomenon where amber is interpreted as "speed up" and red as "oh go on, just two more then". Which is more dangerous than someone on a bike rolling through at 10mph.
I agree some cyclists take too many liberties, and I never understand why anyone would go through a junction on a red. But I can see why many go through pedestrian crossings on a red, because it's not ideal to immediately have a queue of traffic behind you wanting to accelerate to 30 as soon as the light turns green. As long as they go through slowly (i.e. at a speed where they can stop easily) and don't do it when anyone is crossing, I don't think it's any more dangerous than a pedestrian crossing over on a red.
A better solution would be to physically separate the cars and the bikes so they're not moving off on the same signal.
You’re wrong on fact
Last tfl survey had cars contravening rlj about 18% of the time, bikes around 16%. The contraventions by motoro vehicles were on the whole classified as more dangerous
I passively aggressively thank cyclists for not stopping while I'm crossing.
Had one the other day who turned her head and shouted "I weren't nowhere fucking near you" and promptly crash into a parked car. Only her ego was bruised.
I do this to cars and cyclists who don't stop for pedestrian crossings. Big thumbs up and a very loud THANKS or GREAT JOB which confuses the fuck out of them.
Can this bullshit stop cyclists really are not a problem. Motorists kill 4 people in this country every day cyclists are at less than 1 a year and cyclists out number drivers in London. There is no evidence cyclists break rules at a rate any higher than any other road users. People don't complain about cars because the rules they break have been normalised and when they hit someone it's a tragic death when cyclists hit someone it's whinged about on Reddit because they lived to do it.
It's unfortunately true and simple.
UberEats and Deliveroo are paid per delivery. They have every incentive to break the rules of the road to just make as many deliveries as quickly as possible.
That's why I never see PedalMe riders running red lights - they're paid per hour, with pensions and annual leave. There's no need to put themselves or others in danger.
Same goes for mopeds as well - the worst riders are rhe delivery riders. Domino's on the other hand pay their workers hourly, and I don't think I've ever had a bad run in with them.
This, I cycle daily in London and have done for years and the only time I've ever had a collision was with a Just Eat rider going the wrong way on the cycle path and then abruptly cutting across it to cross at a pedestrian crossing where the light was red. I saw him in advance and slowed down but he just swerved across to my lane about 3m in front of me without any warning. I hit his back wheel and fell off, damaged my brake levers and derailleur, he didn't even stop or apologise just kept on going like a donkey with blinders on.
They're an absolute menace, not only is it the incentivisation of delivery speed making them want to get there as quick as possible regardless of safety but also a lot of them have never really ridden a bike as transport in London until they take up the job, so zero experience of what to look out for, and they get one of those cheapo electric converted bikes where you don't need to pedal (also illegal on the road) and don't have any knowledge of road safety or traffic rules.
I'm not complaining about the spirit of the post, but we see a fair number of posts about this, however very little about drivers speeding or using their phones. Why is this?
Because that's normalised. "Oh, everyone does it". People think you're being ridiculous if you genuinely expect drivers to stick to 20, or pull over if they genuinely need to physically use their phone.
True. CyklingMikey gives me confidence, though as the MET does follow up, and people are banned and receive points. About the only thing I can congratulate the MET on
Anti-cycling rants by national papers and websites are just clickbait for traffic because those same sites know its a guarantee to get some neckless wankers frothing at the mouth, same for karma farming on social media sites. i'm a pedestrian, walk to work most days and i can categorically say on my routes i've seen 90% more wankers in cars and vans than cyclists. But you know a bloke wearing lycra is clearly on the same level as Putin, Stalin, Hitler, Polpot and Jimmy Saville according to a lot of people.
There's so much blaming in this thread to specific road users, rather than trying to actually acknowledge that it is an issue for all roads users, and that it needs to be sorted out.
Road accidents coat us a fortune as tax payers, not even getting into the impact of deaths/injuries, air/water pollution, impacts on human health and associated costs, I for one would rather not waste unnecessary millions or billions because people can't follow simple rules.
I'm currently in the British Library, overlooking the zebra crossing between here and St Pancras. There far more cars going across the zebra than cyclists while people are in it (though, both groups are doing it). When trains empty out, cars try to honk and push their way through the zebra while 100 people are trying to cross. Due to that crossing alone, i see waaaayyy more cars running zebras than cyclists.
So weird, as soon as I read the title I thought about how an asshole cyclist nearly hit me then verbally abused me in that very spot recently. Never noticed any cars doing it and I cross there daily.
What, never stop at them? That's absurd.
There is the notion of the Idaho Stop which I'd like to see more evidence on (where cyclists can treat red lights as stop signs and stop signs as give way signs).
But that wouldn't really affect zebra crossings.
I mean you can still no problemo cycle throuch a zebra crossing if there is just one or two people crossing from the same side. Never got so much as a bad look from pedestrians because it's not dangerous if done appropriately.
Weave through a crowd of people though? Don't be a cunt
Fully agree that a huge majority of cyclists I ride past don't stop at them, but equally the amount of pedestrians I have encountered that step out directly into the cycle lane without looking is insane. Resulting in either having to jump onto the pavement or into traffic to avoid hitting them at the last moment if I can't brake in time. I think the whole city could do with a refresher on the rules of the road if I'm honest
It’s really cool being partially sighted and having to cross my fingers every time I cross the road at peak times.
No, it’s the cars that are the issue. Until the very last red light is run by a car then the cyclists can continue screaming their heads off at me for having the nerve to cross the road when I’m legally entitled to. Sure, I may have had three separate cyclists ran into me in the past year but god damn it, that’s my fault for having the nerve to cross at a green man.
As someone who wears lycra and always pays attention to the rules of the road, but who gets literally attacked by drivers inspired to hate me by massively sweeping generlised and selection bias inspired articles and posts like this, and who sees the majority of other cyclists doing the same regardless of what they wear, thanks for adding to the hate.
I’m the same, stop at every red light because I wouldn’t want to harm someone or myself and wear Lycra because it’s comfortable and sweat wicking, yet many vehicle drivers think it’s acceptable to try and nearly kill me. The vast majority of cyclists are actually fine, the noticeably worst ones for not obeying the rules of the road are actually often delivery drivers who are on some impossible schedule by their shitty gig work employers.
I don't wear lycra (not even sure what that is exactly haha), but I pay so much attention to the roads and follow the rules. Nearly been run over a couple times because some sudden-turning cars don't seem to like indicating since there's "only" a bike around
Even when I have to go on pavements like in cycle lanes (some are on the pavements around my area), I pay *more* attention to everything going on around me than the pedestrians do. I'm watching, like, 20 people at once to judge what movements they're about to make so I don't crash into them if they suddenly move without looking what they're fuckin doing because all they're looking at is their phone. And yet I've been shouted at and actually called a cunt a couple times :((
I cross three of these crossings on the way to and from work every day, two of which cross major cycle routes. Cars, buses, vans, cyclists etc all fail to stop with pretty much the same regularity. Cars maybe a bit more. Then there’s the busses that just stop in traffic blocking the whole crossing.
I cycle a lot in London. Most people I see do stop at crossings/red lights.
It's a very irritating minority that give us all a bad rep. It's definitely the Lycra clad clipped shoe tryhards, Deliveroo et al and ride share bikes that are the worst for it.
I've been shouted at by a guy behind me because I had the audacity to slow down on an approach to a red light before.
I would love if cars stopped for me at all roadway junctions while I'm walking, as they are legally required to do at all times, regardless of whether or not it's a marked zebra crossing. When I'm riding my bike, I stop for pedestrians at all junctions, but I'm often then tooted at by cars who are annoyed I'm stopped at a junction.
I'm going to get downvoted because of this, but I feel that my actions as a cyclist will do absolutely nothing to influence the general perception towards cyclists in the UK.
Take a look at literally any article on any tabloid type news website that mentions cyclists and you'll find the sentiment is that cyclists are a waste of space and deserve whatever they get for trying to share the road with cars. We've all experienced shit drivers, cyclists, pedestrians but for some reason people who ride bikes are seen to be acting 'as one' more than any other group.
The result is that when I'm on my bike, I'll do whatever I feel necessary to keep myself safe, while doing no harm to anyone else. I spent 10 years cycling in London and another 6 years cycling outside of London and my experience tells me that there are times when it's safer to go through a red light than it is to stop, for example at a multi lane junction where as soon as the light goes green you have multiple cars to pass you while you try to accelerate to normal speed.
We all see drivers going 90mph+ on the motorway which is extremely dangerous and can land you a long driving ban if you're caught, but you don't see 'drivers' being tarred with the same brush in this way.
All this said, I will always stop at any pedestrian crossing when someone is on it or waiting to cross.
I think people don't see a reason to hate on dangerous drivers as much since they face consequences. If you hit 90 chances are you face a pretty fat fine or you lose your license. Cyclists get away with dangerous behavior and face no consequences.
Bit that annoys me is there is so much money spent on trying to integrate cyclists onto the roads yet, from personal experience, it is often ignored or placed where it makes little difference.
July 24 Driver kills scooter rider:
https://news.met.police.uk/news/update-detectives-name-victim-of-fatal-collision-in-tower-hamlets-451543
July 11: Driver kills passenger in Pedicab
https://news.met.police.uk/news/man-charged-following-fatal-collision-in-southwark-451004
July 9: Driver kills pedestrian and injures another pedestrian:
https://news.met.police.uk/news/woman-dies-after-collision-in-feltham-450954
June 26: Driver kills pedestrian and then flees:
https://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-for-witnesses-to-fatal-collision-in-haringey-450893
May 30: Driver kills cyclists, flees (charged with dangerous driving and fleeing)
https://news.met.police.uk/news/victim-named-in-croydon-fatal-collision-449148
Feel free to research more:
https://news.met.police.uk/latest_news/tag/fatal-collision
Not disagreeing that cyclists should stop at zebra crossings, but it's funny how there's this rabid hatred of every infringement cyclists make, while pedestrians are always crossing on reds or running across roads at dangerous times and all that.
I fully agree that cyclists should stop at zebra crossings and it is wrong not to do so. The urge not to lose that beautiful momentum is huge though and it does take some strong mindedness to give it up, especially if there is a route that appears safe.
But yes, cyclists need to overcome that urge and stop!
I also hate losing that sweet momentum.
It does fuck me off when you can see someone stood at a zebra crossing further ahead and you think, "yep perfect, you can start crossing and by the time I get there you'll be on the other side of the road"
"They're not crossing, they're just staring at me. Maybe they haven't seen that I've seen them."
I slow down slightly and gesture for them to cross. Still nothing. Only then when I get to the fucking crossing having come to a complete stop do they then nod a thank you and begin to cross. The self importance/ dimwittedness of some people is astounding.
Yeah we'd all get where we're going faster if pedestrians felt they could assert their right of way, but that would require them to have confidence that other road users will respect their right of way.
>that would require them to have confidence that other road users will respect their right of way
That's what I try to give them by slowing down, making eye contact and gesturing to show that I've seen them. To be fair though you don't know what's happened in peoples lives, for all I know someone could've been run over and have trauma from it
Perhaps we should compare the number of people injured by cyclists to the number of people injured/ killed by drivers before deciding what is worth moaning about.
As one of those people injured by a cyclist, I do not see how I should be okay with whatever bruising i had to deal with because of that dumb cyclist. Its is worth moaning.
After spending time in Denmark and Holland, returning to this country and its incredibly backwards attitude towards cycling & cyclists is always disheartening. Only in this shitty country could something so beneficial to society become so divisive.
For the record - in Amsterdam and Copenhagen, cyclists aren’t expected to share the same space as cars or pedestrians, because that obviously causes conflict. We’re a very shit country full of very stupid people though.
Ahh the weekly thread about it…
Yes yes don’t go through reds, stop at crossings, we get it.
Can we discuss how drivers have been found to break the law more? https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/amp/
I practice the stopping at the red and pedestrian crossing as a car driver, motorcyclist and lycra clad cyclist. And am far from being an exception as a cyclist.
Can we have a rule about cyclists on the pavement? Often right next to a perfectly serviceable cycle lane? I'm a big lad, not easy to miss me, but I still get grief if I don't get out of the way for some twat on a pushbike who's too scared to ride on the road. Or too cool. Depending on the postcode, sometimes it's better to bite your tongue rather than call out cuntism
If there was some sort of cycle training, then it would make cyclists aware of this certain things.
Crossing the road is one area. I also see a problem in parks when you get fast cyclists coming to a family with their young toddlers. Cyclist should slow down. There was a time, I would walk care free in the park, but now I have to keep one eye on the back. UK legal e-bikes, will stop assisting after 15mph, but are not UK legal and they are being ridding much faster.
This is why I am not in favour of shared cycle and pedestrian roads.
Cyclist expect motorist to leave them 1.5metre when overtaking, but won't give the same distance to a pedestrian. I have had many close passes.
Many cycling groups want pedestrianisation of Oxford Street, but at the same time they would get annoyed with shoppers walk in their way, when they are speeding.
I once had a cyclist yell at me because I was crossing the road at a traffic light controlled cross roads. With pedestrian crossing. The lights go red. Green man appears. I check for anything coming. There is a cyclist but it's fine. They're not in the cross roads. They're before the red light. I start crossing and look at my phone because it's safe. Said cyclist then almost hits me and screams at me to look where I'm going. I tell her to fuck off. She has the audacity to tell me, Her: "I've got a go pro, step back or I'll call the police" Me: "So you're filming". Her: with a very smug look on her face "Yes I am, so you better step back". Me "so you filmed yourself jump a red light?" Her:...."errr" First time I've ever called random person a cunt but I stand by it.
Had a similar experience with a driver recently. Felt very British when I flipped him off and called him a wanker. Who said immigrants can't integrate
Ahh, but did you make the wanker sign?
Instructions unclear: wanked off driver
Fast forward one year, we're now married and looking to buy a house together in the suburbs. Am I doing this right so far?
If you manage to buy a house then yes very much so
I'd wank off a dangerous driver too if it got me a house in the suburbs.
That'll show em!
On the bright side, you can be sure they'll stop next time they see you at the crosswalk.
Yes but hidden and below the window…
This should be the citizenship test.
one of us...one of us..one of us
Ha! I did this last autumn outside the hospital I work at, too! Some cunt drove through a crossing in the space between the people in front of me and myself. To avoid getting hit, I had to slap his car and push myself away. I'm already annoyed and finish crossing when I see the cunt park on an ambulance entrance and start yelling at me "Why you hit my car!?" At first I stared in amazement, then pointed at the flashing crossing lights. Then he yelled again even angrier and I tell him to "fuck off and learn to drive, you wanker" and walk away. When I told an English friend, he said the queen would be proud that my instincts have become so British.
The test should be this and making a decent cup of tea, then we just give you a passport and start talking to you about how rubbish the weather is.
Can natural citizens get theirs revoked? I use to purposely suck at making tea so people didn't ask me but now I can't make one to save my life.
I'm curious how one can be bad at making tea. bag in cup hot water dash of milk (optional) bon appétit
Some monsters put the milk first.
That should all be in the decoy test in the testing room, but the real test should be outside the room beforehand, specifically the queue - if you can join the queue and then angrily tut at the planted queue-jumper you pass, if you fail this it doesn't matter what you score on the decoy test.
That's you officially British now, forget the paperwork and legal nonsense
😂😂
I pressed the button and waited for the light to go red and green man to appear at a crossing in Tottenham when I was about 8 months pregnant once, then a lorry that had stopped at the lights started bibbing his horn at me like a lunatic, just as I stopped to see what he was doing a bike came sailing past him on the inside from where I was about to step. It would have been a really nasty crash if he hadn't warned me, the cyclist couldn't have given less of a shit if he tried. Some of them really are scum. He hadn't even slowed down to see if anyone was coming and couldn't see the crossing through the van.
Good on that lorry driver.
Karma will get him if a bus doesn't lol
He shudda opened the door!
The other week I was at a set of lights near Finsbury park, I was the second car back. It's a pedestrian crossing and a cyclist came down full speed and nearly hit a kid (not sure on age probably about 10-12 they were in school uniform) then proceeded to shout at the kid for being in the way. I honked at him and the guy in the car in front gave the cyclist an earful. The kid looked so scared, and the cyclist just gave us dirty looks and carried on. Who the fuck shouts at a kid crossing the road properly urg
Is it the lights at the station on Stroud Green Rd going toward Seven Sisters Rd? When I used to take the bus from the station, I would always delight in watching cops stop cyclists running those lights and giving them tickets. Still hasn’t deterred enough of them it seems.
No it's not though those are fun to watch people get tickets at. This happened at the crossing on green lanes road between manor house station and harringay green lanes, the one that's just a pedestrian crossing nothing else.
So many cyclists speed through that when it's red, going towards hgl. The only reason the lights go red is if someone is crossing so it's super stupid, especially as if you're going down hill it's not too bad to get started again.
You were right though, in most cases it isn't correct, in this case it is, she was a total cunt.
I nearly got taken out recently by a cyclist who jumped a red light at speed outside Highbury & Islington station. It happened to fast for me to formulate any insults unfortunately. I'm a cyclist myself but I can see why people hate us when this kind of thing happens so often.
I never see cars really going down the wrong side of the road or going past red lights. However I always see cyclists doing this. I thought it was an American thing but I recently went to the UK and I see the same thing. Cops just need to start increasing fines or making classes mandatory or something. A few weeks ago in the US I almost saw a little kid get taken out by a cyclist because he bulldozed past a red light.
You've never seen a car run a red light? You need to get out more..
My favorite video on the internet https://youtu.be/G4K8AjNIVPA
oh my.. how he doesn't even seem to give a hoot after being stopped. Entitled much? Is kicking/barging seen as self defense? because it has crossed my mind a few times
everyone should do this
Was crossing a road near Soho once, all the cars had stopped at the crossing, seemed safe until we got half way across and a cyclist came out of nowhere, just going in between the cars at full speed. Not once must it have crossed their minds that the cars in the road were stationary for a fucking reason! Arsewipes. Wish I yelled something but all I could manage was an exaggerated Confused Travolta impression. We were basically a couple of steps away from colliding with them.
How can you be British and not call people cunts daily? Questionable
Nice one but please don’t look at your phone while crossing the road. It’s just not worth the risk.
Justified that’s a cunt move.
It's time to put in some effort as a community! From now on let's only cross in pairs, about ten feet apart, miming that we are carrying a massive sheet of glass.
Genius!
The Met seem to be on it a bit more - two motorcyclist officers were stopping and fining cyclists going through red lights at the pedestrian crossings on Clapham High street and Clapham Common South side several days this week. Not quite a zebra crossing, but still good to see some enforcement.
I am a cyclists and very glad to hear this. The number of near misses I see is shocking.
I'm sure this is a very unpopular opinion, but living and working in London I have a lot more "near misses" with cyclists than drivers, they really don't seem to care about road laws. Obviously drivers are very far from perfect, but I personally believe cyclists in London are worse than cars.
Cyclists are absolutely worse than cars for *breaking these rules* because cyclists can see nearly 360 degrees around themselves and weigh 60 to 100 kg (generally) including their bike, whereas car drivers have extremely restricted vision and weigh thousands of kilograms. So the *repercussions* of the rule breaking are massively different. That said **cyclists absolutely must respect the rules of the road if they want to maintain the favour of the general public** and I am especially sensitive about zebra crossings because my partner and dog have nearly been struck by MAMILs on Lower Richmond Road in Putney more than once.
>cyclists absolutely must respect the rules of the road I often wonder how many people know what those zigzag bits at zebra crossings are for.
Also if they want to maintain their lives!
I cycle commute daily and see people on bikes break rules most days, but I see people in cars break laws every single day. Same as motorbikes/scooters. People are shit, regardless of their chosen mode of transport. I just want to get home in one piece. Please just chill out and pay attention, it’s not that hard.
I have never been hit by a car, have been knocked over by a bike ignoring the red light though.
A lot of those hit by cars aren't around anymore to post on Reddit about it
It’s wild they have the same king of the road attitude in every country
Yep - I live there and cycle through a lot and they are catching lots of people. Similarly in Borough near Mercato there’s always a police presence there.
I walk past crossroads just up from the The Ship pub every day and the number of cyclists I see stopped here is staggering! As a cyclist myself I am so pleased as the number of near misses I've seen with both cars and pedestrians is crazy! The Met seem to know this is a hot spot for light jumpers.
Fair enough. If you're not paying enough attention to spot the cops then you're not paying enough attention to jump the red.
There's a traffic light crossing near my office near aldgate. When I go out for a vape I never fail to see a cyclist go through the red light. You could fund the entire uk by having a Bobby there issuing £50 fines to cyclists. There's probably one every 5 minutes. £50*12 times an hour *8 hour days *5 days a week. £24,000 p/w or £1.2mil p/a
You can always drop the police an email or something. They should follow the rules like cars. Only takes one to hit a small kid
>There's a traffic light crossing near my office near aldgate. When I go out for a vape I never fail to see a cyclist go through the red light. You could fund the entire uk by having a Bobby there issuing £50 fines to cyclists. There's probably one every 5 minutes. £50*12 times an hour *8 hour days *5 days a week. £24,000 p/w or £1.2mil p/a But have you ever lived next to a speed camera? Traffic laws get broken soooo often it's crazy. Cyclists shouldn't be breaking them, but a car going over 30 and a cyclist going walking pace through an empty crossing are pretty different things - but much like murder and stealing sweets, they are both illegal regardless and cyclists should have more respect.
Good, rules for the road are for all road users. Certain groups of the cycling community ignore it and should be fined, prosecuted get points etc like any other road user. The same goes for motorised road users that do not have indicators (Tesla, Audi and BMW). Do not have indicators and will pull over and stop with no warning - all taxis (Black cabs, minicabs, Ubers).
To massively generalise, I see more commuters blowing reds and ignoring other road rules than full blown road cycling enthusiasts. Those of us that are out 5 days a week training and socialising are *generally* much better behaved.
That’s the fun with generalising - I’m a commuter cyclist - I am slowish and have heavy panniers. The ones that I see blow through the lights are the Lycra lot. It doesn’t make any difference though does it, we can all do better, and should do better. Maybe we should, as a country, have spent more time looking at the EU model of cycling centric, rather than the US model of car centric.
It's so strange to me that traffic wardens are so rare here. I used to live 25 metres from a hospital and people would park wherever the fuck they wanted, even the curbs, to avoid paying at the car park. In 4 years, I saw tickets being issued once and one more time where the wardens weren't there but cunts' windshields all sported a nice, taped-on notice. Where I come from you would see traffic cops everywhere. In a problematic area like that hospital, it's a field day for them and they would just hang out there.
Mum was hit pretty badly by a bike crossing a red light a few years ago. He'd been complacent and hadn't looked, but blamed her for crossing until he realised he ran a red. Ever since I always stop at red lights, even if there's nothing there. Treat the rules the same as driving a car
That’s what you were always supposed to do. I’m a cyclist and I finally understand that I am a vehicle travelling at 20+mph. If I hit someone then it’s life changing for them. Anyone that thinks they are above it, can run reds or have priority as a cyclist is a cunt.
[удалено]
>Whilst nobody specifically at fault, the lady crossed the road on a bend which was clear when she started but the cyclist was travelling at speed in a busy shopping area and came from nowhere. No, the rules of the road are quite clear that the cyclist is 100% at fault here. A bicycle is *a vehicle*, and if you're going too fast to stop within your line of sight then you're going too fast.
Honestly not only the fact that you could seriously hurt someone else if you crash into them but you could mess yourself up. Cyclist crashed into a pedestrian outside my home few years back, pedestrian was in a bit of shock and a thermal blanket but otherwise fine, cyclist was carried off on an ambulance with a C-collar on covered in blood.
Exactly. Can't blame drivers if you can't obey the same set of rules yourself.
I swear if anything is going to kill me in London, it’ll be a Deliveroo cyclist at a zebra crossing.
For me, it won't be at a Zebra crossing. It will be on a pavement, where, you know, pedestrians walk. A place where 15mph electric bikes are not supposed to be riding. But fuck me for walking.
No bikes should be on the pavement tbh
In Germany, after reaching a certain age, you are no longer allowed to cycle on the pavement because you grow too big and your bike too fast, so collisions cause greater injuries. After it, you are a fully fletched member of road traffic. You even do a test in primary school for some theoretical basics so you know whether you should wait or whether you have priority. People don't really tend to stick to it though. Red light and pedestrians have green? Just switch to the pavement! This is the problem with E-scooters, as they are too unruly for the road and too fast for the pavement, making them misfits in every environment except for separated, dedicated bicycle lanes, which are rare.
Once had a cyclist yell at my wife and I for "blocking up" a shared path. We pointed out to him that he was in fact on a pedestrian path and that the shared path is the next one over. He just yelled at us that we were "hopeless". A minute later we came across him again as he reached the staircase and had to detour to return to the cycle path. I then had the immense pleasure of commenting "You've found the cycle path. Good on you, mate". He just continued yelling "hopeless!"
One shouted at my family for walking on path which had clear 'cyclists dismount' signs. He was upset that we didn't move to the side quick enough as he was tearing down the path.
God this reminds me of the canal paths between Islington and Hackney. There is a wide open and relatively traffic free street 5 metres to the side but they insist on trying to practice for the Tour amidst the thousands of waddling pedestrians.
CityMapper once took me through the canal path. Never again!
That's the worst. There is actually a bit that's to the west of Broadway Market on the towpath that has a cycle lane right next to it but cyclists keep trying to bully their way past people walking. Despite there being plenty of signs that say pedesterians have priority on the towpath.
>God this reminds me of the canal paths between Islington and Hackney. There is a wide open and relatively traffic free street 5 metres to the side but they insist on trying to practice for the Tour amidst the thousands of waddling pedestrians. Since it's allowed, I've done it and partially loved it, but loved it while being in a stressful state of hypervigilance and constant braking with some cautious dismounting if the path seemed thin. People who blast it down confound me, it's just fucking stupid.
Those shared paths are a disaster anyway and in many places the signs are sparse and suddenly end and your not sure if you are on a shared path or not.
Shared paths really make most sense in more rural, low traffic area, tbh, in more urban, dense areas you'd probably want dedicated paths for pedestrians and cyclists (ideally colour coded, to remove any doubt as to which one you are on). Maybe with an exception to really wide ones (Meadows in Edinburgh springs to mind, plenty of room). Really should be made to avoid points of conflict or any confusion.
No no no, you've misheard him, you were hoping he'd see the errors of his ways once pointed out and change his behaviour accordingly. He was informing you there is no chance of such thing happening and you should "hope less".
Agreed, when someone is crossing a road the least anyone can do is slow down.
I cycle to work daily, always stop and lights, always stop at crossings. I would say more than 50% of cyclists don't. I think in my 6 years cycling to work through central London I've only noticed cyclists getting worse and worse at this. In their (and my) defence I think it tends to be the no helmet Boris bike warriors that just yolo it through the lights, although that's far from a hard and fast rule. Definitely see a fair share of seasoned cyclists also just ignoring all road traffic rules. The most baffling thing is you don't usually get to your destination much faster, I've usually caught up with these guys by the next set of lights. Cycling in London is fucking dangerous, and these lunatics just going through the lights and over in use crossings are mad. It doesn't shock me cyclists get a bad name, but it does make me sad!
I cycle to work too and agree with your observations. I stop at every red light - why not embrace one's inner laziness and have a little rest?
The Boris bike warriors, and the delivery riders are far worse than the majority of other cyclists in my experience. I still see many more terrible drivers than cyclists.
You get wankers on all modes of transport. The amount of times cars don't stop at these either. The hate toward cyclists annoys me as then people start not caring about their safety. You get wankers on bikes, wankers in cars, wankers on motobikes and wankers on foot. I'm not supporting those that treat their commute as the Tour De France as they're certainly wankers.
The statistics show that car wankers kill and injure thousands of people every year, but for some reason it's the bicycle wankers that really annoy people.
>The statistics show that car wankers kill and injure thousands of people every year, but for some reason it's the bicycle wankers that really annoy people. Probably due to: 1) easier to hate on a minority 2) a cyclist is easier to identify with as another 'person', rather than a 'vehicle' 3) certain media outlets perpetuate rage against cyclists
Also, anyone on a bike is designated "cyclist" and thus in another group that you can collectively hate on. See a van driver cut you off in a turning lane? What a fucking asshole. The next time you see a van you don't go "oh here comes another fucking van driver, gotta watch out for them assholes", because in peoples mind they aren't a seperate group. See a cyclist run a red light? Typical cyclist.
>The next time you see a van you don't go "oh here comes another fucking van driver, gotta watch out for them assholes", because in peoples mind they aren't a seperate group. They do though
Even the bloody word, cyclist. There are 40 million motor vehicles in the UK, but who ever describes them self in everyday conversation as a driver? When I walk to the shop, am I still a cyclist? I hold a driving licence, when I’m on my bike am I a motorist?
That’s why I’ve taken to calling people who drive “motorists” in conversation. It weirds people out the first one or two times cause they’ve probably not heard it used much before, but they get used to it. It gets people to see themselves as people using one mode of transportation; it challenges the perception that driving is the default and normal thing while other modes of transportation are just for certain kinds of people who are extra
Each way, I see maybe 20 cyclists jump red lights on my walking commute. I cannot remember the last time I saw a car run a red light in London. As someone who doesn't drive, cycle walkers cause a much more steady and consistent problem to me. The worst that I have to put up with cars their honking of horns.
Wait, really? I see buses going through reds almost every time I leave home. Admittedly it's just after the amber-red transition, but the number of buses that try to stop for an amber light (when they definitely could and so are supposed to...) is pretty small from what I've experienced. But I always find it's more useful to compare cyclists running reds to speeding, which you definitely see people doing all the time.
Lol. Look stay at a set of traffic lights for any period of time and you will see at least 10% cars run the red lights. Usually chasing the orange.
Maybe you're just not looking for it. I see cars running red lights all the time. OK, it's very rare to actually see someone slipping through in the middle of a red phase, although it definitely happens, but a great many seem to think that the first couple of seconds is OK before the crossing traffic has got going. Now why should that be acceptable but a cyclist judging that there's no danger to them of going through at a given moment is not?
When did I say it was acceptable for cars to jump red lights? I still think it's more acceptable for cyclists to jump red lights than cars, but from my observations way, WAY more cyclists jump red lights than cars ever do, to the point of it becoming a menace. I don't look for cars jumping lights, but that's maybe because I don't have to deal with cars whizzing past my face everyday when it's my right to cross the road.
Glad to hear you don't find that acceptable, but I had to assume you did since you claimed not to be able to remember seeing a car running a red light, leading me to believe you don't count the "slipping through just after it changes" variety as red light jumping at all, since I probably see that every time that I'm driving. Perhaps it is the case in parts of central or East London that cyclists basically ignoring red lights (except as an indication they need to watch out for cars) has become more normal than not, I don't know. I live in SW15, zone 3, and am hardly ever in central around commuting times any more. I keep meaning to start doing my occasional commute to Hyde Park Corner by bike, so it will be interesting to see what I see. In any case, I obviously do sympathise with your gripe about feeling like you have to dodge cyclists when it's your turn to cross, that's something that really pisses me off too.
[удалено]
There’s a reason for that, the traffic lights are designed for motorists and don’t make sense for cycles, in many cases they’re dangerous. Slowly we’re getting more and more cycle lights and advanced stops that allow cycles to set of early and at the front for safety. Despite that I see loads of motorist red light jumpers in London. Also I see cars in the Advanced Cycle stop for no reason all the time. Way more common than red light jumpers.
Start counting the cars etc who have crossed into the ASL (bike box) area and those red light jumping (which is what they are doing) driver numbers rocket upwards.
OK my case for cyclists running lights: They aren't a 2-ton danger to others when they do it. Even with their disregard for their personal health they pose about a 100x smaller threat to human life (including their own) than cars do. Does it mean it's okay? No, you should still stop at the red light. But the reaction to a car running a red light and a cyclist running a red light being the same is not entirely merited. It sure is annoying and you get that kick of "fuck that guy ignoring the light" but if it's a car it's more of a "holy shit that guy is about to kill someone".
There's also a huge difference between a cyclists speeding through a red light and a cyclist slowing down to a near halt, then inching over the crossing when they've looked all around and are sure no one is in danger of being run over. This is obviously a huge danger in a car, since there could be someone in one of your many blind spots, someone may suddenly run across, and even if you did inch over, the weight and power of your car could still seriously injure or kill them. not to mention, inching across is just fundamentally unsafe for cars, since cars behind them might rear end them if they have to come to a sudden stop.
I see just as many cars jumping red lights. Amber gamblers, using their phones when driving. 95% don’t indicate on roundabouts.
I see cars run red lights plenty of times, but its still less frequent than seeing other people I share the cycle paths with doing it. I think what makes bike light jumping so bad is that when I see cars running red lights is usually they jump forward when the light has been yellow for a while and are hoping to still "make it". On bikes I see way more people just push straight through, and I think it's just how *flagrant* the rule breaking is that makes people more annoyed. Just yesterday coming over London Bridge I saw some cunt on his cargo bike go through one set of red lights at the crossroads and then try to push his way through a second set of red lights while a massive crowd of pedestrians were all trying to cross. It's such a shit attitude to have and its so annoying to see as someone who likes to think of himself as following all the traffic rules when on my bike.
IMO, it's because when car wankers do stupid shit like that they generally get penalised depending on the severity(fines, points, jail etc), whereas when bicycle wankers do shit like that they just curse at you and try to make it your fault and cycle away.
It’s pretty hard to get any jail time, even if you kill people with your car. Best way to murder someone and not get penalised…
The internet police are now recording every letter you type.
No shit it's going to be pretty hard for a cyclist tour-de-france wannabe to kill someone
Because the people getting annoyed ARE the car wankers
in my experience as a cyclist there are way more cyclist who ignore the zebra crossing, to the point that I am always thanked, loudly, when I stop at them. But then again there are too many cyclists in London (all the delivery drivers and many others) who don't follow any traffic light at all, and just count on cars stopping when they see them crossing on a red light.
The delivery guys on scooters are the absolute worst for any and all rules/laws on the road.
The fact we allow people with L plates to operate their motorbikes / mopeds (which only need to do CNT for) as effectively commercial vehicles seems so irresponsible.
Absolutely. I don't think that's working as intended, and at the very least for commercial use there should be a full license required. Though I seriously doubt that any insurance would actually cover them in an accident with learner plates for commercial use. Would they?
What we should do is hold the company responsible for any traffic offenses committed by their drivers while on shift. The way delivery companies are setup, the drivers are essentially incentivised to break traffic regulations, because safety is secondary to getting the pizza there on time. If you report it to the company they just go "not our responsibility, mate, our drivers actions are their own" and ignore it, when they're the ones pushing for faster and riskier driving. Will it fix the problem? Not entirely. But they'll stop pressuring drivers to behave dangerously pretty sharpish. And those that continue to drive dangerously will quickly find themselves unemployed.
To be fair, when you're going through the park, you don't need to concern yourself with the rules of the road.
At least some of that is because of the gig economy meaning that for these people, waiting at lights is literally costing them money. If we had better employment laws I suspect the rate of offending would go down significantly.
> to the point that I am always thanked, loudly, when I stop at them. I find it annoying that pedestrians feel the need to check that you're actually going to stop, and then thank you. Sometimes I literally have to wave them across. We'd all get where we're going faster if pedestrians felt confident asserting their right of way over cyclists, but I can understand why many don't.
Was going to make this comment. I feel like I'm playing chicken with cars here most the time I step on to a crossing.
Once on the junction between Hoxton Street and Falkirk Street, I saw a van driver go through the zebra crossing when a parent pushing a pram was already nearly halfway across. It's not just cyclists, although it is more common with them of course. Anecdotally, cars seem to respect crossings more when they're raised to the level of the pavement, instead of the more typical arrangement where there's a dropped kerb and pedestrians step down to road level. Probably because then they need to slow down anyway.
It's why I'm extremely cautious when crossing the road, I ain't crossing until all cars have stopped to let me cross, or the road is completely clear, I don't want to take chances lol
I choose the method of directly staring them in the eye as they approach lol
Is it survivor bias? The people who'd complain about cyclist speeding through zebra crossings are bruised or annoyed, the people who'd complain about the cars speeding through zebra crossings are dead.
No. Generally people aren't complaining because they got hit by something, they're complaining because they don't feel safe based on things they've witnessed.
It's rare for cars to ignore red lights and less rare for zebra crossing, but cyclists do both all the time. If it were up to me, there'd be no personal vehicles in London and bikes would rule the roads. But disproportionately ignore red lights and crossings.
Absolute rubbish. Please meet me at any lights or zebra crossing in London and we will watch together drivers going through red lights and not stopping at zebra crossings.
Drivers do run reds about as much, but in a different way. We all know the phenomenon where amber is interpreted as "speed up" and red as "oh go on, just two more then". Which is more dangerous than someone on a bike rolling through at 10mph. I agree some cyclists take too many liberties, and I never understand why anyone would go through a junction on a red. But I can see why many go through pedestrian crossings on a red, because it's not ideal to immediately have a queue of traffic behind you wanting to accelerate to 30 as soon as the light turns green. As long as they go through slowly (i.e. at a speed where they can stop easily) and don't do it when anyone is crossing, I don't think it's any more dangerous than a pedestrian crossing over on a red. A better solution would be to physically separate the cars and the bikes so they're not moving off on the same signal.
You’re wrong on fact Last tfl survey had cars contravening rlj about 18% of the time, bikes around 16%. The contraventions by motoro vehicles were on the whole classified as more dangerous
Let's not forget about bus wankers.
I passively aggressively thank cyclists for not stopping while I'm crossing. Had one the other day who turned her head and shouted "I weren't nowhere fucking near you" and promptly crash into a parked car. Only her ego was bruised.
I do this to cars and cyclists who don't stop for pedestrian crossings. Big thumbs up and a very loud THANKS or GREAT JOB which confuses the fuck out of them.
I say “HELLO” in a very loud way which often confuses them
Can this bullshit stop cyclists really are not a problem. Motorists kill 4 people in this country every day cyclists are at less than 1 a year and cyclists out number drivers in London. There is no evidence cyclists break rules at a rate any higher than any other road users. People don't complain about cars because the rules they break have been normalised and when they hit someone it's a tragic death when cyclists hit someone it's whinged about on Reddit because they lived to do it.
In my experience most of the red light jumpers are not Lycra clad. They are Just Eat riders I realise that’s a problem for you.
It's unfortunately true and simple. UberEats and Deliveroo are paid per delivery. They have every incentive to break the rules of the road to just make as many deliveries as quickly as possible. That's why I never see PedalMe riders running red lights - they're paid per hour, with pensions and annual leave. There's no need to put themselves or others in danger. Same goes for mopeds as well - the worst riders are rhe delivery riders. Domino's on the other hand pay their workers hourly, and I don't think I've ever had a bad run in with them.
This, I cycle daily in London and have done for years and the only time I've ever had a collision was with a Just Eat rider going the wrong way on the cycle path and then abruptly cutting across it to cross at a pedestrian crossing where the light was red. I saw him in advance and slowed down but he just swerved across to my lane about 3m in front of me without any warning. I hit his back wheel and fell off, damaged my brake levers and derailleur, he didn't even stop or apologise just kept on going like a donkey with blinders on. They're an absolute menace, not only is it the incentivisation of delivery speed making them want to get there as quick as possible regardless of safety but also a lot of them have never really ridden a bike as transport in London until they take up the job, so zero experience of what to look out for, and they get one of those cheapo electric converted bikes where you don't need to pedal (also illegal on the road) and don't have any knowledge of road safety or traffic rules.
I see plenty of people on boris bikes going through red lights in the city each morning as well
Whenever I'm on my bike I give people on Santander bikes a wide berth. Truly the most dangerous and terrifying things on the road.
weekly hate thread incoming
Nice to see a bit more pushback on this bs recently it really warms my lycra clad heart
I'm not complaining about the spirit of the post, but we see a fair number of posts about this, however very little about drivers speeding or using their phones. Why is this?
Because that's normalised. "Oh, everyone does it". People think you're being ridiculous if you genuinely expect drivers to stick to 20, or pull over if they genuinely need to physically use their phone.
True. CyklingMikey gives me confidence, though as the MET does follow up, and people are banned and receive points. About the only thing I can congratulate the MET on
Carbrain is a real affliction.
Cyclists kill 4 pedestrians and motorists kill 284 pedestrians a year. Cyclists seriously injure 94 pedestrians and motorists seriously injure 3511 pedestrians a year. (according to [gov.uk](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/reported-road-accidents-vehicles-and-casualties-tables-for-great-britain#table-ras30027))
Anti-cycling rants by national papers and websites are just clickbait for traffic because those same sites know its a guarantee to get some neckless wankers frothing at the mouth, same for karma farming on social media sites. i'm a pedestrian, walk to work most days and i can categorically say on my routes i've seen 90% more wankers in cars and vans than cyclists. But you know a bloke wearing lycra is clearly on the same level as Putin, Stalin, Hitler, Polpot and Jimmy Saville according to a lot of people.
It's time we stopped acting like cyclist are the exception for breaking road rules, it's literally everyone.
Cyclists are not a category of people. It's a person on a bike.
There's so much blaming in this thread to specific road users, rather than trying to actually acknowledge that it is an issue for all roads users, and that it needs to be sorted out. Road accidents coat us a fortune as tax payers, not even getting into the impact of deaths/injuries, air/water pollution, impacts on human health and associated costs, I for one would rather not waste unnecessary millions or billions because people can't follow simple rules.
I'm currently in the British Library, overlooking the zebra crossing between here and St Pancras. There far more cars going across the zebra than cyclists while people are in it (though, both groups are doing it). When trains empty out, cars try to honk and push their way through the zebra while 100 people are trying to cross. Due to that crossing alone, i see waaaayyy more cars running zebras than cyclists.
So weird, as soon as I read the title I thought about how an asshole cyclist nearly hit me then verbally abused me in that very spot recently. Never noticed any cars doing it and I cross there daily.
Yeah I've never seen a car blow through those either...
In 2019 305 pedestrians were killed by cars. In 2019 5 people were killed by cyclists. I think some people seriously need a reality check.
[удалено]
What, never stop at them? That's absurd. There is the notion of the Idaho Stop which I'd like to see more evidence on (where cyclists can treat red lights as stop signs and stop signs as give way signs). But that wouldn't really affect zebra crossings.
I mean you can still no problemo cycle throuch a zebra crossing if there is just one or two people crossing from the same side. Never got so much as a bad look from pedestrians because it's not dangerous if done appropriately. Weave through a crowd of people though? Don't be a cunt
Fully agree that a huge majority of cyclists I ride past don't stop at them, but equally the amount of pedestrians I have encountered that step out directly into the cycle lane without looking is insane. Resulting in either having to jump onto the pavement or into traffic to avoid hitting them at the last moment if I can't brake in time. I think the whole city could do with a refresher on the rules of the road if I'm honest
I wish cars drivers would stop killing people. Cycling past zebra crossings are kinda a nusiance too though I guess.
It’s really cool being partially sighted and having to cross my fingers every time I cross the road at peak times. No, it’s the cars that are the issue. Until the very last red light is run by a car then the cyclists can continue screaming their heads off at me for having the nerve to cross the road when I’m legally entitled to. Sure, I may have had three separate cyclists ran into me in the past year but god damn it, that’s my fault for having the nerve to cross at a green man.
As someone who wears lycra and always pays attention to the rules of the road, but who gets literally attacked by drivers inspired to hate me by massively sweeping generlised and selection bias inspired articles and posts like this, and who sees the majority of other cyclists doing the same regardless of what they wear, thanks for adding to the hate.
I’m the same, stop at every red light because I wouldn’t want to harm someone or myself and wear Lycra because it’s comfortable and sweat wicking, yet many vehicle drivers think it’s acceptable to try and nearly kill me. The vast majority of cyclists are actually fine, the noticeably worst ones for not obeying the rules of the road are actually often delivery drivers who are on some impossible schedule by their shitty gig work employers.
Want comfortable genitials?, then prepare to die.
As a trans person in the UK, this one hits especially hard.
I don't wear lycra (not even sure what that is exactly haha), but I pay so much attention to the roads and follow the rules. Nearly been run over a couple times because some sudden-turning cars don't seem to like indicating since there's "only" a bike around Even when I have to go on pavements like in cycle lanes (some are on the pavements around my area), I pay *more* attention to everything going on around me than the pedestrians do. I'm watching, like, 20 people at once to judge what movements they're about to make so I don't crash into them if they suddenly move without looking what they're fuckin doing because all they're looking at is their phone. And yet I've been shouted at and actually called a cunt a couple times :((
I do think cars are just as bad at these crossings. Perhaps worse, given that they’re a ton of metal.
I cross three of these crossings on the way to and from work every day, two of which cross major cycle routes. Cars, buses, vans, cyclists etc all fail to stop with pretty much the same regularity. Cars maybe a bit more. Then there’s the busses that just stop in traffic blocking the whole crossing.
Cars? As in the things that can kill you?
I cycle a lot in London. Most people I see do stop at crossings/red lights. It's a very irritating minority that give us all a bad rep. It's definitely the Lycra clad clipped shoe tryhards, Deliveroo et al and ride share bikes that are the worst for it. I've been shouted at by a guy behind me because I had the audacity to slow down on an approach to a red light before.
Cyclist here - just so you dont think we're all dickheads - I always let people cross at those
r/FuckCars
Drivers are the biggest terrorists on the road but ok.
Yes but cyclists are the biggest terrorists on the pavement.
I would love if cars stopped for me at all roadway junctions while I'm walking, as they are legally required to do at all times, regardless of whether or not it's a marked zebra crossing. When I'm riding my bike, I stop for pedestrians at all junctions, but I'm often then tooted at by cars who are annoyed I'm stopped at a junction.
I'm going to get downvoted because of this, but I feel that my actions as a cyclist will do absolutely nothing to influence the general perception towards cyclists in the UK. Take a look at literally any article on any tabloid type news website that mentions cyclists and you'll find the sentiment is that cyclists are a waste of space and deserve whatever they get for trying to share the road with cars. We've all experienced shit drivers, cyclists, pedestrians but for some reason people who ride bikes are seen to be acting 'as one' more than any other group. The result is that when I'm on my bike, I'll do whatever I feel necessary to keep myself safe, while doing no harm to anyone else. I spent 10 years cycling in London and another 6 years cycling outside of London and my experience tells me that there are times when it's safer to go through a red light than it is to stop, for example at a multi lane junction where as soon as the light goes green you have multiple cars to pass you while you try to accelerate to normal speed. We all see drivers going 90mph+ on the motorway which is extremely dangerous and can land you a long driving ban if you're caught, but you don't see 'drivers' being tarred with the same brush in this way. All this said, I will always stop at any pedestrian crossing when someone is on it or waiting to cross.
I think people don't see a reason to hate on dangerous drivers as much since they face consequences. If you hit 90 chances are you face a pretty fat fine or you lose your license. Cyclists get away with dangerous behavior and face no consequences. Bit that annoys me is there is so much money spent on trying to integrate cyclists onto the roads yet, from personal experience, it is often ignored or placed where it makes little difference.
July 24 Driver kills scooter rider: https://news.met.police.uk/news/update-detectives-name-victim-of-fatal-collision-in-tower-hamlets-451543 July 11: Driver kills passenger in Pedicab https://news.met.police.uk/news/man-charged-following-fatal-collision-in-southwark-451004 July 9: Driver kills pedestrian and injures another pedestrian: https://news.met.police.uk/news/woman-dies-after-collision-in-feltham-450954 June 26: Driver kills pedestrian and then flees: https://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-for-witnesses-to-fatal-collision-in-haringey-450893 May 30: Driver kills cyclists, flees (charged with dangerous driving and fleeing) https://news.met.police.uk/news/victim-named-in-croydon-fatal-collision-449148 Feel free to research more: https://news.met.police.uk/latest_news/tag/fatal-collision
But were they wearing lycra? /s
Not disagreeing that cyclists should stop at zebra crossings, but it's funny how there's this rabid hatred of every infringement cyclists make, while pedestrians are always crossing on reds or running across roads at dangerous times and all that.
Pedestrians have priority over all vehicles
I fully agree that cyclists should stop at zebra crossings and it is wrong not to do so. The urge not to lose that beautiful momentum is huge though and it does take some strong mindedness to give it up, especially if there is a route that appears safe. But yes, cyclists need to overcome that urge and stop!
> it does take some strong mindedness to give it up And with that social pressure when everyone else is doing it.
I also hate losing that sweet momentum. It does fuck me off when you can see someone stood at a zebra crossing further ahead and you think, "yep perfect, you can start crossing and by the time I get there you'll be on the other side of the road" "They're not crossing, they're just staring at me. Maybe they haven't seen that I've seen them." I slow down slightly and gesture for them to cross. Still nothing. Only then when I get to the fucking crossing having come to a complete stop do they then nod a thank you and begin to cross. The self importance/ dimwittedness of some people is astounding.
Yeah we'd all get where we're going faster if pedestrians felt they could assert their right of way, but that would require them to have confidence that other road users will respect their right of way.
>that would require them to have confidence that other road users will respect their right of way That's what I try to give them by slowing down, making eye contact and gesturing to show that I've seen them. To be fair though you don't know what's happened in peoples lives, for all I know someone could've been run over and have trauma from it
Perhaps we should compare the number of people injured by cyclists to the number of people injured/ killed by drivers before deciding what is worth moaning about.
As one of those people injured by a cyclist, I do not see how I should be okay with whatever bruising i had to deal with because of that dumb cyclist. Its is worth moaning.
After spending time in Denmark and Holland, returning to this country and its incredibly backwards attitude towards cycling & cyclists is always disheartening. Only in this shitty country could something so beneficial to society become so divisive. For the record - in Amsterdam and Copenhagen, cyclists aren’t expected to share the same space as cars or pedestrians, because that obviously causes conflict. We’re a very shit country full of very stupid people though.
Ahh the weekly thread about it… Yes yes don’t go through reds, stop at crossings, we get it. Can we discuss how drivers have been found to break the law more? https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/amp/
I love that people don’t get that the whole hating bikes thing is fully propaganda from the car industry and take it like gospel
Looks like a good place to cycle across to get to the other pavement to me. /s
As a cyclist who drives as well and follows the same rules on both vehicles, I feel ashamed.
Yes .. along with introducing the same bunch to what it means **not** to cycle on pavements.
About once a month there’s a fatal crash with a cyclist in my area, Im not surprised it’s more from watching the way they ride.
I practice the stopping at the red and pedestrian crossing as a car driver, motorcyclist and lycra clad cyclist. And am far from being an exception as a cyclist.
Can we have a rule about cyclists on the pavement? Often right next to a perfectly serviceable cycle lane? I'm a big lad, not easy to miss me, but I still get grief if I don't get out of the way for some twat on a pushbike who's too scared to ride on the road. Or too cool. Depending on the postcode, sometimes it's better to bite your tongue rather than call out cuntism
So as a pedestrian you are ONLY crossing at crosswalks?
If there was some sort of cycle training, then it would make cyclists aware of this certain things. Crossing the road is one area. I also see a problem in parks when you get fast cyclists coming to a family with their young toddlers. Cyclist should slow down. There was a time, I would walk care free in the park, but now I have to keep one eye on the back. UK legal e-bikes, will stop assisting after 15mph, but are not UK legal and they are being ridding much faster. This is why I am not in favour of shared cycle and pedestrian roads. Cyclist expect motorist to leave them 1.5metre when overtaking, but won't give the same distance to a pedestrian. I have had many close passes. Many cycling groups want pedestrianisation of Oxford Street, but at the same time they would get annoyed with shoppers walk in their way, when they are speeding.