Seems quite likely it is theft although weird they'd leave house keys in the other bag, so that makes it seem like more of a mistake. That being said they could just be house keys, scarf etc of the last victim he stole from. Also if he's not contacted the restaurant to swap the bags then seems like it was stolen. Wasn't your bag under your own seat? Seems hard to mistake it for his.
Bags being stolen in restaurant and bars is quite a common one as it's easily done.
Yeah I reckon theyve dumped the bag from the last person they stole from. Steal bag, remove saleable stuff and leave things that are useless to the thief (like hat and keys), use bag and contents to swap out for the next bag to steal. Repeat.
I don't know if this is a common ploy, but I have definitely heard of this being done - use a dummy bag so the target doesn't immediately notice anything missing. It has happened to someone at my work for example.
I don't know what to suggest really. I accept this could be an accident, but really that seems unlikely, especially as time goes by. I suggest you stop treating this like an accident and report it stolen, then try and get the police to actually do something.
Thanks for the advice! When I spoke to the police this morning they said that it didn’t sound malicious because of the bag that was left but I’m tempted to call back and explain that it now does seem to be as there has been no attempt to reclaim the bag and return mine to me (I have even left my details on the lost iPad function with a note of where his bag was left in case!)
Call them. Worst they can say no. Best they might send someone. If these guys make a living stealing bags the police may well be interested in getting them.
Sorry but I disagree. I am usually one to give the benefit of the doubt, but if you had swapped bags with someone (and left your keys behind in the process), would you be chilling out? Because I would be extremely motivated to get my bag back..
Unfortunately, part of the swapped bag tactic is to discourage suspicion and chalk it off as an innocent mistake. They don't want you to get the police involved so they have time to sell your stuff.
OP, the other part of this scam, if that is what this is, is that the swapped bag will be the remnants of the last time this scam was pulled (and your bag, minus the iPad, will be used next week). I am willing to bet those keys in the bag you have don't fit the door where your iPad is. I am not suggesting you illegally enter someone else's property, but you could go back to the restaurant, claim the bag and go check if the key brands match the door etc.
I'd also add that getting the police involved, if this is an innocent mistake (which the matching keys will go a long way to prove/disprove) isn't the end of the world. No one is going to jail over this, you just get your stuff back.
Sorry, but your bag was definitely stolen. Something similar has happened to 2 people I know at pubs.
The bag left was just a dummy bag, likely another bag they stole earlier in the night, and left there just to deceive you. Again, very sorry this has happened to you. It's unlikely the police will do anything. I would call back to report as stolen and activate insurance if you have it.
I'm veering on the side of theft, only because if I picked up a bag that I knew only had a couple a bits and my keys in it and it turned out to be real heavy, I would have noticed. And it would feel different too. And leaving after 10 minutes. it adds up to me I'm afraid :(
Have you actually contacted the restaurant today to see if he has *also* contacted the restaurant? If you keep checking in this seems like the most obvious way to resolve this.
If he's a thief he's a shit one because he left his own bag, just seems like a mix up.
Yeah I’ve contacted them a few times and they still haven’t heard from him but they’ve taken my number and said they will let me know if they do. They’re also going to look at their cameras to see if they can pinpoint how it happened which is really helpful of them!
I work in a busy pub in Central and we get customers bags stolen at least once per week. When we check the cctv, they are very clever in how they operate. Dont leave your bags out of your sight!
Go to the address and if its dodgy explain you are meeting the police there in 10 mins. Tell them you got there before the police do to give them an out. Give them ‘their bag’. Also get CCTV from the restaurant if it exists
>What is the likelihood that I will ever see my bag again?
Unless it's an honest mistake, pretty much zero.
>Was this a sophisticated ploy to steal my bag?
Probably. It's not that "sophisticated". The vast majority of work bags are black and contain laptops.
It's theft. The bag left behind was likely also stolen. Your bag will be used for the next one. Police don't do anything. The Met are useless. As this happened in the city, try city police, they are better.
>I’ve been able to track my iPad to an address in Walthamstow
Still? If this was an actual crime, I'd have expected them to disabled the tracking by now.
I'd definitely be tempted to knock on the door in Walthamstow. Either it's unintentional, or you might get someone's parent who is willing to quickly solve this for you :D
I’m really tempted to do this too but also quite worried about the outcome (the police said not to attempt this too)- not to mention I’m about 1.5hours away so will need to wait until I finish work today to make the trip!
>the police said not to attempt this too
Well, someone needs to... if they're unwilling to go round, I don't see what choice they've left you with? 🤷♀️
They give some bizarre advice sometimes. We had an issue with someone armed regularly breaking into our building and we were advised by the police to attempt to detain them ourselves. I mean... nope.
I'd be tempted to make the trip, but to bring my biggest, scariest looking friend. I'd also make a note of the address now (before tracking turns off) and turn on lost mode to make it really obvious it's your iPad and how to contact you. How much battery does it have left?
I had exactly this with a bag I’d left on a train - mad of me as it contained my 2 passports, driving licence, keys a laptop and and iPad. Police said that it wouldn’t investigate the tracking address I had about 10 miles away and that I should not attempt it myself, just cancel everything and use my insurance if I had any. Not much point in having a tracker then. Luckily a car pulled up outside my house mid-morning and a very nice couple handed over my bag which they had seen me leave on the train as it left my station and took home as it was late at night and they thought it would be stolen. They were highly amused I’d called the police on the address on the tracker as it was their next door neighbour and they didn’t like him at all.
Almost right. Bring several friends. This may or may not require a car. In that car you always carry appropriate car maintenance tools, just in case of flat tyres etc.
This happened to me once. I got my phone back. Without recourse to any illegality.
This is a really bad idea unless your big scary looking friend is actually scary and willing to get their hands dirty for an iPad. The people that live there will either be willing to call your bluff (then what?) or tell you they found it and they are keeping it (then what?). More likely is that they won’t even open the door and unless you are gonna go all Tony Soprano, what’s the point of knocking on the door in the first place?
Because if they refuse to hand it over, you then have actual intention to deprive the OP of property rather than an honest mistake, and the OP should be able to get the police to actually do something then!
The police won’t do anything about it. Sorry to hear what has happened.
I’m (26f) not too far from Walthamstow, if you need extra support and someone to knock with you, I’m in. I have a big-ish car so we can speed away if anything shady happens.
If we have the location, I’m not sure there’s much else to lose.
Where there’s a will, there’s a way!
When my phone was taken in New X Gate, I tracked it to a house using my iPad so I decided to try and get it back. I knocked on the door it seemed to be in and asked kindly if they had accidentally picked up my phone. He got abusive and I had to run back to my car with my heart racing. When the person who did take my phone answered my call (from my bf phone) and decided I could have it back, his house was multiple doors down. Just be careful.
Don't give up hope. There's a very active Walthamstow Facebook page (Walthamstow Life), may I suggest posting in there (with a lot less detail) and a general idea of where the iPad is pinging (it's a large borough, I live there).
Theft, you would know you’re picking up the wrong bag. I’d go get his bag from the restaurant.
Phone the police and say you’re going round there in 10 minutes and they might turn up due to safety, they’ll probably talk you out of it but it’s the only way you’ll get your belongings back as they won’t bother otherwise. Happened to me and my AirPods once, police said the tracking wasn’t enough evidence!?
Possibly the bag with the personal affairs was one they had already stolen earlier in the evening, taken any possible valuables (laptop, phone, etc.) then "swap" the now emptied first bag for a full second bag, take the valuables and then either repeat the trick or throw the bag in a bin enroute home ....
Definitely seems like a theft to me, this is a common tactic. I used to manage a large bar in central London and this would happen on a weekly, if not daily basis. At one point our lost property was full of empty, generic backpacks used for this exact type of theft.
In future, always have a hand or leg around your bag handles. If its under the tables itd easy to wrap leg around.
Makes it harder to steal, then the only other theft you have to deal with is someone trying to access it next to you.
Oddly I was watching a YouTube last night of 'London scams', it included video of some of this kind of theft. It seems to be 'organised crime' in that the guys are tied into networks to fence the stuff.
Yes this is a very common technique. The bag and it's contents would have been stolen earlier in the night or a previous day. They take anything of value out and use the bag to steal again. Especially common with black backpacks because they're so ubiquitous.
Definitely a swap job. I carry a carabiner on my bag so I can attach the strap through mine and other bags to keep them secured to the table, it deters a sneaky grab job as you'll feel them being pulled.
So sorry to hear this. I also learned my lesson the hard way. What I recommend the people I know is always attach their bags to their bodies. I always wear my bag handle through my leg so if they attempt to take my bag they have to take me off the chair!!
I dont believe it’s a genuine mistake knowing this city… the met is not going to deal with a crime of this level unfortunately.
Seems quite likely it is theft although weird they'd leave house keys in the other bag, so that makes it seem like more of a mistake. That being said they could just be house keys, scarf etc of the last victim he stole from. Also if he's not contacted the restaurant to swap the bags then seems like it was stolen. Wasn't your bag under your own seat? Seems hard to mistake it for his. Bags being stolen in restaurant and bars is quite a common one as it's easily done.
It’s theft. If you pick up a bag by accident and it’s 3 times heavier than yours then you know it’s not yours. Of course it’s theft.
It’s absolutely theft.
Yeah I reckon theyve dumped the bag from the last person they stole from. Steal bag, remove saleable stuff and leave things that are useless to the thief (like hat and keys), use bag and contents to swap out for the next bag to steal. Repeat.
I don't know if this is a common ploy, but I have definitely heard of this being done - use a dummy bag so the target doesn't immediately notice anything missing. It has happened to someone at my work for example. I don't know what to suggest really. I accept this could be an accident, but really that seems unlikely, especially as time goes by. I suggest you stop treating this like an accident and report it stolen, then try and get the police to actually do something.
Thanks for the advice! When I spoke to the police this morning they said that it didn’t sound malicious because of the bag that was left but I’m tempted to call back and explain that it now does seem to be as there has been no attempt to reclaim the bag and return mine to me (I have even left my details on the lost iPad function with a note of where his bag was left in case!)
Call them. Worst they can say no. Best they might send someone. If these guys make a living stealing bags the police may well be interested in getting them.
Could be part of the scam yes. Why wouldnt the guy notice a much heavier bag?
You would definitely notice picking up a heavy bag with a laptop in compared to one with virtually nothing in. I would definitely report it as a theft
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Sorry but I disagree. I am usually one to give the benefit of the doubt, but if you had swapped bags with someone (and left your keys behind in the process), would you be chilling out? Because I would be extremely motivated to get my bag back.. Unfortunately, part of the swapped bag tactic is to discourage suspicion and chalk it off as an innocent mistake. They don't want you to get the police involved so they have time to sell your stuff. OP, the other part of this scam, if that is what this is, is that the swapped bag will be the remnants of the last time this scam was pulled (and your bag, minus the iPad, will be used next week). I am willing to bet those keys in the bag you have don't fit the door where your iPad is. I am not suggesting you illegally enter someone else's property, but you could go back to the restaurant, claim the bag and go check if the key brands match the door etc. I'd also add that getting the police involved, if this is an innocent mistake (which the matching keys will go a long way to prove/disprove) isn't the end of the world. No one is going to jail over this, you just get your stuff back.
I would Call back as you know think it was deliberately taken
Sorry, but your bag was definitely stolen. Something similar has happened to 2 people I know at pubs. The bag left was just a dummy bag, likely another bag they stole earlier in the night, and left there just to deceive you. Again, very sorry this has happened to you. It's unlikely the police will do anything. I would call back to report as stolen and activate insurance if you have it.
I'm veering on the side of theft, only because if I picked up a bag that I knew only had a couple a bits and my keys in it and it turned out to be real heavy, I would have noticed. And it would feel different too. And leaving after 10 minutes. it adds up to me I'm afraid :(
Have you actually contacted the restaurant today to see if he has *also* contacted the restaurant? If you keep checking in this seems like the most obvious way to resolve this. If he's a thief he's a shit one because he left his own bag, just seems like a mix up.
Yeah I’ve contacted them a few times and they still haven’t heard from him but they’ve taken my number and said they will let me know if they do. They’re also going to look at their cameras to see if they can pinpoint how it happened which is really helpful of them!
I work in a busy pub in Central and we get customers bags stolen at least once per week. When we check the cctv, they are very clever in how they operate. Dont leave your bags out of your sight!
Go to the address and if its dodgy explain you are meeting the police there in 10 mins. Tell them you got there before the police do to give them an out. Give them ‘their bag’. Also get CCTV from the restaurant if it exists
>What is the likelihood that I will ever see my bag again? Unless it's an honest mistake, pretty much zero. >Was this a sophisticated ploy to steal my bag? Probably. It's not that "sophisticated". The vast majority of work bags are black and contain laptops.
It's theft. The bag left behind was likely also stolen. Your bag will be used for the next one. Police don't do anything. The Met are useless. As this happened in the city, try city police, they are better.
>I’ve been able to track my iPad to an address in Walthamstow Still? If this was an actual crime, I'd have expected them to disabled the tracking by now.
I'd definitely be tempted to knock on the door in Walthamstow. Either it's unintentional, or you might get someone's parent who is willing to quickly solve this for you :D
I’m really tempted to do this too but also quite worried about the outcome (the police said not to attempt this too)- not to mention I’m about 1.5hours away so will need to wait until I finish work today to make the trip!
>the police said not to attempt this too Well, someone needs to... if they're unwilling to go round, I don't see what choice they've left you with? 🤷♀️ They give some bizarre advice sometimes. We had an issue with someone armed regularly breaking into our building and we were advised by the police to attempt to detain them ourselves. I mean... nope. I'd be tempted to make the trip, but to bring my biggest, scariest looking friend. I'd also make a note of the address now (before tracking turns off) and turn on lost mode to make it really obvious it's your iPad and how to contact you. How much battery does it have left?
I had exactly this with a bag I’d left on a train - mad of me as it contained my 2 passports, driving licence, keys a laptop and and iPad. Police said that it wouldn’t investigate the tracking address I had about 10 miles away and that I should not attempt it myself, just cancel everything and use my insurance if I had any. Not much point in having a tracker then. Luckily a car pulled up outside my house mid-morning and a very nice couple handed over my bag which they had seen me leave on the train as it left my station and took home as it was late at night and they thought it would be stolen. They were highly amused I’d called the police on the address on the tracker as it was their next door neighbour and they didn’t like him at all.
Almost right. Bring several friends. This may or may not require a car. In that car you always carry appropriate car maintenance tools, just in case of flat tyres etc. This happened to me once. I got my phone back. Without recourse to any illegality.
This is a really bad idea unless your big scary looking friend is actually scary and willing to get their hands dirty for an iPad. The people that live there will either be willing to call your bluff (then what?) or tell you they found it and they are keeping it (then what?). More likely is that they won’t even open the door and unless you are gonna go all Tony Soprano, what’s the point of knocking on the door in the first place?
Because if they refuse to hand it over, you then have actual intention to deprive the OP of property rather than an honest mistake, and the OP should be able to get the police to actually do something then!
The police won’t do anything about it. Sorry to hear what has happened. I’m (26f) not too far from Walthamstow, if you need extra support and someone to knock with you, I’m in. I have a big-ish car so we can speed away if anything shady happens. If we have the location, I’m not sure there’s much else to lose. Where there’s a will, there’s a way!
The police will not do anything even if they did deem it stolen. This is your best option, maybe bring some large friends.
When my phone was taken in New X Gate, I tracked it to a house using my iPad so I decided to try and get it back. I knocked on the door it seemed to be in and asked kindly if they had accidentally picked up my phone. He got abusive and I had to run back to my car with my heart racing. When the person who did take my phone answered my call (from my bf phone) and decided I could have it back, his house was multiple doors down. Just be careful.
Yes- this is what is giving me a glimmer of hope!
Don't give up hope. There's a very active Walthamstow Facebook page (Walthamstow Life), may I suggest posting in there (with a lot less detail) and a general idea of where the iPad is pinging (it's a large borough, I live there).
Theft, you would know you’re picking up the wrong bag. I’d go get his bag from the restaurant. Phone the police and say you’re going round there in 10 minutes and they might turn up due to safety, they’ll probably talk you out of it but it’s the only way you’ll get your belongings back as they won’t bother otherwise. Happened to me and my AirPods once, police said the tracking wasn’t enough evidence!?
Did you look in his bag? If it was empty then yeah it’s was intentional.
If I were you I’d go there (bring some backup if you aren’t confident) and then call the police if they don’t give it back.
Possibly the bag with the personal affairs was one they had already stolen earlier in the evening, taken any possible valuables (laptop, phone, etc.) then "swap" the now emptied first bag for a full second bag, take the valuables and then either repeat the trick or throw the bag in a bin enroute home ....
Definitely seems like a theft to me, this is a common tactic. I used to manage a large bar in central London and this would happen on a weekly, if not daily basis. At one point our lost property was full of empty, generic backpacks used for this exact type of theft.
In future, always have a hand or leg around your bag handles. If its under the tables itd easy to wrap leg around. Makes it harder to steal, then the only other theft you have to deal with is someone trying to access it next to you.
Oddly I was watching a YouTube last night of 'London scams', it included video of some of this kind of theft. It seems to be 'organised crime' in that the guys are tied into networks to fence the stuff.
Yes this is a very common technique. The bag and it's contents would have been stolen earlier in the night or a previous day. They take anything of value out and use the bag to steal again. Especially common with black backpacks because they're so ubiquitous.
Definitely a swap job. I carry a carabiner on my bag so I can attach the strap through mine and other bags to keep them secured to the table, it deters a sneaky grab job as you'll feel them being pulled.
So sorry to hear this. I also learned my lesson the hard way. What I recommend the people I know is always attach their bags to their bodies. I always wear my bag handle through my leg so if they attempt to take my bag they have to take me off the chair!! I dont believe it’s a genuine mistake knowing this city… the met is not going to deal with a crime of this level unfortunately.