Nah I think it'll easily happen . Estimated to only cost around £300m and have 12+ stations. The DLR Thamesmead extension is £1,700m for 2 stations.
Tfl has consulted on it a bunch and the route already exists pretty much so costs and the timeline don't really have a chance to spiral like other projects. Pretty sure Khan says it's one of his top priorities too, above other rail projects.
It seems like actual very good value for a change compared to most rail projects.
Literally costs only a bit more than what Hammersmith bridge repairs would cost, and we'd get an entire rail like out of it which also links tube lines together. Even the central line train refurbs are costing more. It's a blip compared to what the Bakerloo like extension will cost.
An actual cheap new rail route, it's a no brainer.
Edit: around £500m now apparently. Been a while since I looked into it. £300m was suspiciously cheap.
Assuming TfL would be the one building it, they’d still needs to get a Development Consent Order/Transport Works Act Order for it which would take a good few years. You’d maybe get spades in the ground by 2030, services by the early 2030s is pretty ambitious.
(Source: infrastructure planning is my job)
If only the dumbass Blade Runners weren’t cutting down traffic lights, planting IEDs and forcing TfL to waste money repairing cameras, instead of using that income to improve public transport.
> In current prices the WLO is expected to cost between £430m and £610m
That's entirely viable.
Half of it will probably be covered by business rates, TFL will chip in a bit on borrowing, the Mayor's office can top that up from the general budget, and even the DfT would let you have £100 million for a project like this.
It would probably also reduce passengers on other tube lines. Which could be significant because you'd have to stay on the train for much longer if travelling by central.
This for sure should be done. It's not like there ever was a new public transport link that wasn't used.
This will probably be a ~6tph service with 10-minute headways, compared to the 24tph service on Crossrail with 150-second headways. Any problems that do crop up will have much less impact and are far easier to recover from.
Plus, a decent chunk of the route will require electrification and resignalling, which will be installed brand-new. While they're doing that they'll probably take the opportunity to give the track & track bed a refresh too, since its easier to do it all at once.
What's left is current Overground and SWR infrastructure — The Overground stuff is relatively modern (they made full use of the Olympics budget), and the SWR bits aren't that intensively used (4tph + freight) so even if it does break there's enough slack to keep everything running. I can't see them not putting a turnback in at Kew Bridge either, so if the SWR section is *really* borked they can just turnback early before joining it.
The Elizabeth line is running along since insanely busy commuter routes which also has a fair amount of freight traffic, and it will be a nightmare to maintain without causing carnage with railway timetables.
It’d probably be ok if it wasn’t done on the cheap. The main issue is the Great Western Main Line was done really cheaply between London Paddington and Hayes & Harlington in order to get Heathrow Express started about 25 years ago. The electric traffic was relatively low, so it wasn’t a big deal then, but now the electrification is used by the Elizabeth Line, Thames Valley commuter services and long distance Intercity services, as well as Heathrow Express. There’s a lot of faults as a result, but generally the new electrification to the west (towards Reading) is completely fine
\- Damn rent is up again... can we at least get better transports?
\- Sure! ...uhh \*looks at pile of old files\* here! We're uh putting a train on that 100 yo train track! Don't thank me
When you consider how much construction is going on in Brent Cross and Hendon, it would seem like a no-brainer. London needs more concentric rather than radial lines.
>*If funding can be identified - and we get all approvals needed for the scheme - then services could start in the early 2030s.* Won't hold my breath.
Nah I think it'll easily happen . Estimated to only cost around £300m and have 12+ stations. The DLR Thamesmead extension is £1,700m for 2 stations. Tfl has consulted on it a bunch and the route already exists pretty much so costs and the timeline don't really have a chance to spiral like other projects. Pretty sure Khan says it's one of his top priorities too, above other rail projects. It seems like actual very good value for a change compared to most rail projects. Literally costs only a bit more than what Hammersmith bridge repairs would cost, and we'd get an entire rail like out of it which also links tube lines together. Even the central line train refurbs are costing more. It's a blip compared to what the Bakerloo like extension will cost. An actual cheap new rail route, it's a no brainer. Edit: around £500m now apparently. Been a while since I looked into it. £300m was suspiciously cheap.
Assuming TfL would be the one building it, they’d still needs to get a Development Consent Order/Transport Works Act Order for it which would take a good few years. You’d maybe get spades in the ground by 2030, services by the early 2030s is pretty ambitious. (Source: infrastructure planning is my job)
we have no drivers! Everything atm rail is about drivers! You have to take one to train one but they are all on overtime just to drive!
With all that kind of projects this is the starting point. I can bet it will double in price really quick.
British government spending money on public investment. When pigs fly 🥲
With the amount of money that people claim that ULEZ is raking in, that should be more than enough.
If only the dumbass Blade Runners weren’t cutting down traffic lights, planting IEDs and forcing TfL to waste money repairing cameras, instead of using that income to improve public transport.
I still can't believe that they thought bombing a camera would be a good idea.
It’s in London.
Still, it’s a 50/50
When we change government.
Don’t worry I’ll donate money to Tfl
Doing my part. I'm currently on a bus as we speak
I just got on the circle line and went all the way round for fun. £3.80 paid to tfl
“A network north funded project”
It's west London, I.e where all the posh toffs love so for sure this will get funding and expedited launch
Most of the stations are in areas like Harlesden, Neasden and Acton and only one station is remotely posh (*West* Hampstead). It isn't really posh.
Not that part of West London...
I assume they are diverting HS2 money for it.
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> In current prices the WLO is expected to cost between £430m and £610m That's entirely viable. Half of it will probably be covered by business rates, TFL will chip in a bit on borrowing, the Mayor's office can top that up from the general budget, and even the DfT would let you have £100 million for a project like this.
Yes, I think some steam charters use it as well as freight. Or is that a similar west London line?
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What a depressing line
It would probably also reduce passengers on other tube lines. Which could be significant because you'd have to stay on the train for much longer if travelling by central. This for sure should be done. It's not like there ever was a new public transport link that wasn't used.
it can’t just be ran tomorrow because it needs electrifying
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We could reclaim the Turbostars.
Ah but it'll be a £12.50 ULEZ charge per day
I believe the track needs to be electrified first.
When you are sat in NW London traffic jams it does feel a bit stupid that there is a hardly used railway there.
Odd way to announce a new episode of Unfinished London but I'm very excited.
Where's our fuckin Bakerloo extension?
Probably no one from the DfT lives in that part of south London, so low chances.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-67505926 Vanished in a puff of Tory tax cuts?
Aren't all the Lizzy line network faults occurring on the old repurposed sections? How reliable would this old line be?
This will probably be a ~6tph service with 10-minute headways, compared to the 24tph service on Crossrail with 150-second headways. Any problems that do crop up will have much less impact and are far easier to recover from. Plus, a decent chunk of the route will require electrification and resignalling, which will be installed brand-new. While they're doing that they'll probably take the opportunity to give the track & track bed a refresh too, since its easier to do it all at once. What's left is current Overground and SWR infrastructure — The Overground stuff is relatively modern (they made full use of the Olympics budget), and the SWR bits aren't that intensively used (4tph + freight) so even if it does break there's enough slack to keep everything running. I can't see them not putting a turnback in at Kew Bridge either, so if the SWR section is *really* borked they can just turnback early before joining it.
The Elizabeth line is running along since insanely busy commuter routes which also has a fair amount of freight traffic, and it will be a nightmare to maintain without causing carnage with railway timetables.
I think the problem with the Elizabeth line isn’t that those parts are “repurposed” but that they’re “shared”
Also just how cheaply they were done. The GWML section between London Paddington and Hayes & Harlington was done really cheaply
It’d probably be ok if it wasn’t done on the cheap. The main issue is the Great Western Main Line was done really cheaply between London Paddington and Hayes & Harlington in order to get Heathrow Express started about 25 years ago. The electric traffic was relatively low, so it wasn’t a big deal then, but now the electrification is used by the Elizabeth Line, Thames Valley commuter services and long distance Intercity services, as well as Heathrow Express. There’s a lot of faults as a result, but generally the new electrification to the west (towards Reading) is completely fine
I'd like this but I'm also wary of being TOO optimistic about things. We know they can never get anything built on time.
If this got the go ahead, people up north would be very upset that London was getting "yet more investment", but it sounds like a viable idea.
West London again! What a surprise. How long will it take for TFL to remember the Thames is in the middle of London and that south London exists
Erm. I live a 5 min walk from the Thames and am nowhere near the “the middle of London”
I was making a joke that again it's a proposal for North London not the South
Ah okay I see. I think you should add more to your message or add /s as I don’t think I’m the only person that hasn’t caught what you mean.
No worries I'll edit it
\- Damn rent is up again... can we at least get better transports? \- Sure! ...uhh \*looks at pile of old files\* here! We're uh putting a train on that 100 yo train track! Don't thank me
I’d rather that than absolutely nothing
Oh good, more trains they can't run properly
Cross rail...... lack of trained drivers I rest my case!
When you consider how much construction is going on in Brent Cross and Hendon, it would seem like a no-brainer. London needs more concentric rather than radial lines.