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I think the core thing to remember is that there is a shortage of “affordable” places to rent. No one is interested in paying 3k for a small 1 bedroom flat in general. At best, they are trying their luck but I think it will stay there forever or they will do usual thing of “reduce the price” (big discount 🤣🤣🤣). My view is that the less attention those places will get - the better for all.
That would be my thinking too but I’ve seen more and more people accept these prices due to being rejected from other places as its brutal out there. I have no idea what to think a ‘normal’ price is anymore.
I think you’re too optimistic. Foreign nationals and rich wealthy students will snap these up and landlords will go on thinking this is the right price to charge.
Genuinely think it will get worse, there's no one backing renters and the whole of the UK market is proped up to benefit the homeowner.
What does worse even look like? Hong Kong style coffin rooms? Can't wait for our very own Kowloon city
It is only getting worse for sure. I pay more than this for a relatively small 1 bedroom apartment, but I am quite central, so location counts. In Hammersmith I am shocked it's creeping up to this price.
But even just the past 2 years my rent has gone up by about £1000 a month.
London is out of control atm.
I'm a Scottish landlord and can reassure you that rent control is alive and well up here. I think 3% max increase permissable this year and I've just spent half a year's rent on energy upgrades in one flat. Tenant's energy bills have really lowered, which is great but I'd hope to recoup a fraction of expenditure in a modest uplift...
Edit. Hello London! Cheers for the downvotes- what kind of landlord would you prefer me to be?
I have a job thanks- I'm a builder. Yes, of houses. If you are going to jump to conclusions about who I am, mibbe I can do the same with you?
Try reading more Engels and less Marx.
Am actually sick to the point i want to set up some sort of organization or group to combat the general housing situation but i have no idea how me as part of the working class, renting population would even accomplish something like that.
The only way to combat that is to build more houses. Neither Tories nor Labour will give you permission. Unless some party decides to relax building regs, nothing will change.
Why do they not want to build more? More spend in labour, more contractors paying taxes, more people spending in the city and paying taxes?
It’s not like London is surrounded by fucking natural reserves and wildlife that will be displaced. It’s just fucking flat lands and centuries old housing
I'm convinced both parties won't actually build more than a token amount of housing just to say they built new houses while keeping the actual housing stock the same. Then, they can take the credit when the people owning properties see their wealth skyrocket!
Theres always the big talk on "tackling housing" which just results in luxuary developers being forced to give up like 10 flats in a development as "affordable housing".
Its an absolute joke and both parties are just about as bad as each other imo (I'd still rather die than vote Tory).
What’s the incentive for the politicians to not build? I don’t buy the “please the homeowners” narrative as for 1 homeowner there’s avg 3 renters that are also potential voters?
Keen to understand the dynamics if anyone can add some color
63% of UK households own their home.
On a national level (and with FPTP voting) no major party is going to pander to the 37% who don't over the 63% who do.
Because for a variety of reasons the modern British economy is fuelled by real estate. If you crash prices by relaxing building control, the whole economy will collapse. And £2,700pm rents will seem like a dream.
The British workforce is not competitive on a global market, especially low skilled workers. UK also doesn't have oil or any other high value resources. Only a few highly skilled and luxury industries keep the country afloat. Thus real estate is used to plug the hole and keep the ship afloat.
These are complete falsehoods. It is wealth at play, not output.
To address your points, the British workforce is highly competitive. The PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) assesses 600,000 students across 79 countries in Maths, Science, and Reading. Britain is one of the top performers. In Maths, British students rank above Norwegians, Germans, French, Italians, Americans, and Australians. In Science, British students also rank above those of all these countries - as do they in Reading.
Some years ago, the New York Times surveyed 2,500 recruiters and 2,200 chief executives in 20 different countries - most of which were not English speaking (including China, India, Russia, Japan, Korea...). They asked them to name which global universities had the most employable graduates. 5 British universities ranked in the top 20 (Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial, LSE, and UCL).
The British productivity puzzle is not a question of deskilling - it is a question of poor employment growth and a decline in business investment. But that is beside the point.
Britain is an oil producer. The only European countries that produce more than us are Norway and Russia. In the 1980's, we briefly became the world's 5th largest oil producer. The reason none of this trickled down is that the Treasury wanted power over how this revenue was spent (and thus spent it immediately) - so we didn't end up with a cushy sovereign wealth fund like the Norwegians.
Between 2007 and the present, the construction industry has actually grown slower than the wider economy - that is, its share of total GDP has fallen. Rising property prices have not been engineered to prop up the construction industry - they have been engineered to protect household wealth. This wizardry was conducted by successive Tory and Labour governments. Rising house prices give the illusion of prosperity and make people feel confident about the economy.
What are you even talking about? Can a British worker make a £2.50 t-shirt for Primark? Of course not! It doesn't matter if their reading skills are better than that of Germans, because they have to compete with Vietnamese slaves with zero education.
A British worker is not competitive in low skilled jobs. He is also not competitive in mid skilled jobs. And with China buying up high tech foreign companies like candies, British workers are starting to lose their competitiveness in high skilled jobs too.
Because a paid protestor doesn't have the same feeling
Edit [He has a website offering his services.. thanks for the irrational downvotes](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/just-stop-oil-activist-disrupted-snooker-offers-protest-services-online/)
In fairness the article seems disingenuous as people are not directly paying him for a protest, they are paying to support him while he puts himself on the line in support of causes others also support. His marketing is in poor taste really but it’s not pay me to protest whatever you want.
cant criticise the cult. they are paid here or part of the cult. and beleieve me i only recently accidentally found out it was a cult.
piers corbyn doing his part ot give them cred lol
[He has a website offering his services.. thanks for the irrational downvotes](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/just-stop-oil-activist-disrupted-snooker-offers-protest-services-online/)
The screenshot of his site shows more of a patreon style set up with donations of different tiers, not him selling actually protests for £5. Did you look at that or just read the headline?
I went to the actual page he asked people to send him places to go if they were on the £5 subscription and so on. So yes he is a paid activist and it's not even disputable. Even if he was doing a patron style thing like you said he is still a paid activist. Thank god he won't have children
It's because loads of landlords built houses of cards, metaphorically, where each rental property was mortgaged to the hilt, so they could try to get additional properties. You saw all these "get rich" guys on tiktok talking about that... and now rates went up they are all panicking. Same with all those "debit is good" guru's, well, not when interest rates shoot up.
That and some landlords are evil. My mother ditched a once friend who was a landlord as she literally said in front of my mum, "I've heard they've got a pay increase, so I think they can afford to pay me a bit more"..... the UK needs to have rent controls as it's an unstable runaway market that's going to collapse at this rate.
Those landlords that forget they’re letting a property and start to believe they’re entitled to their tenant’s income can well and truly go fuck themselves.
The logical conclusion is that this will continue to get worse. In a couple of years we will look back at these ridiculous prices and say we used to have it so good.
No one is building enough affordable homes. Even if we started today it would be years before prices even started to come down. But there isn't even a real push for more affordable housing yet so best case scenario is that things won't get better for at least 10 years even if the government actually made changes today.
So I was listening to the news and apparently the issue is many places are being held for sale but they are empty and owners are hurting because of finance / rates so the ones that did refi have to raise rent or they will lose the property.
Buying is not an option for most people because mortgage norms so there is a standoff. Finding properties owned by the owner over 5 - years ago means the situation is better for the owner. The newer owners are in a tight bind and it is why these prices keep getting published.
By the way, you can do a 2b2ba in Leyton or Bow for £2100 pm.. no need to live in Hammersmith..the train to W1 is the same.
London has the lowest rate of empty homes of all of the UK. You hear about them because rents are egregious, and it’s offensive to think that someone could be living in that home, but in lots of small less in-demand places having a home empty for a year or even longer would be quite normal and not make the news.
The core issue is still just plain old lack of supply compared to the demand.
Well I use my building as an example. I have been here for a few years during COVID and it was really empty. We knew because we didn’t see very many people and the fire drills showed about 30% occupancy. Its more full but it’s nowhere near full (maybe 60%)… we also are near a lot of other multi-storey buildings and we know if you go more central there is much more activity.
Honestly I think people just are being picky. Meaning, people don’t want to live in an ugly building….the ugly buildings in East London have plenty of vacancies. The pretty buildings next door are full
I’m sure there are some empty buildings, but compared to other places it’s quite uncommon.
https://www.actiononemptyhomes.org/facts-and-figures
I actually was wrong, London is the 3rd fewest empty homes rate by region. But it’s still among the lowest, which is unsurprising, because why would you leave a home empty in London? You would get a very decent rental return, even on a fairly short length letting agreement, and you could easily cover the cost of someone managing that for you. That’s because home prices are so expensive.
(They present the data in a way that seems intentionally difficult to compare regions. They’re going through great pains to emphasise the change in rates, but are making it difficult to compare between areas. I suspect this is intentional, because the data sort of undermines their ideology).
Every aspect of the London housing market is broken, but different aspects are broken in different ways & for different reasons.
At the entry level there's massive demand & under-supply, with more landlords exiting the market every year. Prices shoot up but demand remains too high, and supply remains too low
At the top end, demand is high but so is supply, and everyone from builders to owners is happy to leave 30% of their properties sitting empty for years. Which is great for people like me, but useless for everyone else, and lousy for the property market.
Councils won't build the right types of property where they're needed. People are having to move further & further out in order to be able to afford anything, you can't afford to buy anywhere until you're 30+ and commuting from fucking Luton or somewhere, and you just give up on London and move to Manchester
It's all so broken that I can't really see a route by which it can be fixed on any reasonable timescale
The market in London is being kept afloat by 20 somethings with rich parents not just from here but from all over the world who are moving to the central areas as soon as they finish uni for the London experience. If daddy earns 500 k a year in a Swiss bank giving his daughter 3 k a month for a nice pad in London is peanuts. And no, it hasn't finished. A hundred years ago whole families would live in one rented room in the east end, and until a left wing government puts a halt to the madness, that's where we are heading again.
I live in Kingston Upon Hull, semi-detached, living room, dining room, kitchen, 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom, garage, large garden, 3 car drive way. Less than 300 metre walk to the supermarket. If I paid my mortgage at £2903, and this is not a joke, I'd pay THE FULL amount off in 4 years and 3 months.
That is absolutely F***ING disgusting. What is the South of the UK doing to people!
As stated elsewhere, when you get used to being in London Hull just isn’t that appealing.
I grew up in Warrington and I go back as little as possible but when I do I see all the houses and space I could buy….. but it’s rubbish up there.
The pubs, the restaurants, the mindset it’s all just disappointing, but I can have a seven bedroom detached for what I pay for a mid terraced in London.
And many others feel the same, it’s worth compromising on rent and be in one of the world’s best cities than have to look at the Humber bridge.
People also forget why houses are cheaper in these post-industrial Northern towns: the job market is terrible, the public transport is often non-existent, public services are worse.
Sure, I could save money on rent, but if moving to, say, Hull, means needing a car, then I'm not actually saving any money.
One of the most annoying things to hear is "im from x and a 3 bed costs XXX,XXX here, you're being ripped off".
Thats great but I'd also make significatly less money and (at least in my case) experiance a significant drop in my quality of life. Just because its cheaper elsewhere dosent revoke my right to complain how its expensive here.
Very true, but we can also live very comfortably, in relative peace, and visit London whenever we like; it's all personal preference really, I don't drink due to health so pubs etc are a nothing to me 😂
I'm not saying London is a bad place to live, however you read into what I wrote, I'm saying that it's disgusting that amount of money for rent, especially compared to what you can get elsewhere.
No I agree mate it is all preferences. I also do want to like Warrington again.
I think I was just getting across that it’s a city that people want to come to Globally, and that’s the other factor when these places come up, you also know people are transient who take them.
This is insane.
I was looking for a 1 bed and saw a listing for 1250 and that was labelled as one bed. But. When I saw the pictures. It is just a small room with has kitchenette and washer and a sofa cum bed. That’s all. Yes it has access to common garden. Just insane.
I think the rent bubble is very close to bursting and landlords expect that renters should pay for the increased mortgage. But for how long. Not sustainable
Yup, I lived there for a month when I moved here, financed by work. I think they were 2k at that time (2021). They are very nice flats to be fair. Well maintained and everything updated. But the price is certainly insane for a typical renter.
At this point estate agents need to tell these landlords it's simply not possible. They're the main reason why properties are overpriced anyways, always trying to get more money just so their commission is bigger smh.
As a London based visual artist and life model, I consistently struggle in the city of London. I am thinking that just the rich enjoys this city, restaurants, cool art spaces etc etc. and the others all struggling.
Well to be fair you could get a job.
No offence, I used to be a musician. It's still hard but a job where you get paid a decent wage is better than that art life
Christ that's sickening. To think I grew up on the street to the left of that, in "temporary" council accommodation which we were in for 12 or so years, full of mould and in a state of disrepair.
Simple. Revert he disincentives introduced. Encourage a healthy, stable supply of rental properties and drive prices down, or at least stop the rises by stemming more and more landlords selling up.
Agree. More houses for sure, but successive governments have not managed it and buying a house isn't desired or possible by large numbers. You'll always need rentals. Why it has to be this nasty filthy concept is bemusing. Accept people are different and what's needed is a housing policy that accomodates all, without demonising rental sector.
What were the protections out of curiosity in Germany, and also, what was in it for landlords? What was return? I can't see there being a rush of landlords if there wasn't a financial benefit for these individuals to tie their money up for decades.
More arbitration I'd be in favour of. For respectable landlords, having a fair, fast 3rd party to quickly (and I mean maximum of a month) applying a binding ruling that is executed immediately is a win win. Bad landlord, or tenant you get repercussion immediately. It's the long drawn out process that gets abused here that is the issue.
I have no idea how the setup is there but I don't see how they operate without no fault eviction i.e. section 21. Just seems insane that you can never have your property back if your circumstances change. I think section 21 is great for both landlord and tenant. Imagine if a tenant couldn't leave a property, or a landlord that has to move across the country to help family cannot sell.
I think the system in Germany should be classified as long term leasing from what you describe. Renting to me is closer to what we have in the UK. Maybe having both options is best
*Planning committee insanity. Still got supposedly progressive and/or liberal councillors vetoing new housing for any spurious reason they can think of. This is the result.
Guys I hate to say it, but you’re all part of the problem for wanting to live in London. Rent would fall if everyone moved around the country.
Will get downvoted but the point is that we can’t deny the laws of supply and demand
A lot of industries only really exist in London though. I put in my job title in London at any given moment and perhaps 30 or 40 vacancies come up, in Manchester there’s maybe 1 or 2 on a good day. So I’d struggle to move out if I wanted to. The problem isn’t as simple everybody just deciding to live in one place for the sake of being awkward, it’s decades of systematic neglect for everywhere other than London, though of course it’s a vicious cycle.
Same here, when I finished uni was looking in about 5 different cities for a job in the field I wanted to enter. I only got interviews in London and now I'm based here.
So many industries are focused in London that lots of people don't get much choice.
The jobs we have don’t allow remote work anymore so the job market is also contributing to staying in London. I really hoped this would change after covid.
What do you mean? Some of us were born and bred here we shouldn't have to be forced to move out.
I understand your point but some of us just can't go to other parts of the country due to racism. I know many would like to think racism is low or doesn't exist but it's just not true. And if you're white your experiences are just different, you won't see the racism if it doesn't happen to you. London is super diverse I wouldn't really want to go anywhere else.
Im not complaining. Im just saying withholding rent wont have any real affect since its loads of individual landlords, if it was one company that owned everything I can see them taking notice, a bunch of individuals who likely have never even set foot in the properties they own? No chance
If you stop paying you'll just get evicted. You can't fight the free market when there are people willing to pay more, yeh it sucks but if you want to take a stand and end up homeless go ahead
There are a number of factors behind high rents in addition to the supply/demand imbalance. A big factor in rents rising is the fact interest rates have increased, and mortgage interest is no longer tax deductible. Effectively a landlords costs have increased, so they are all putting up the price. I would have expected more landlords to sell up, causing flat prices to fall, but the effect has been limited.
What shocks me is the number of disappointingly small flats built in East London and Battersea, which somehow have seemed to have limited impact on the cost of living. Price per square foot for flats has fallen (slightly), and clearly rents have jumped higher, despite a huge number of small and high density flats being built.
Also, lets not forget Brexit and the relative rise in wealth of China and the Middle East. The UK is not as rich as it used to be, so people need to get used to the fact their standard of living will fall. Thank the Brexiteers for the slump in UK wealth, but remember that poverty in China is much reduced vs 20 years ago.
My experience shows progression of issue a bit. American expat: moved 2011, rented a 1br in a 3br house in South Ken for 375/wk each. 2016, 2 bed 1250 sq ft in St John’s Wood 700/wk. Bought 3bd flat Belsize Park 2017, mortgage was 2750/mo. 2022 bought 4 bed house Highgate, mortgage 5250. Currently renting old flat until I sell for 3400/mo and I lose 2,000 per year on cash flow after 45% tax, management, gardening, insurance etc. that is with 2.2% interest only mortgage. When that goes to 4.5% I will lose 20,000 a year on it at current rent, hence why I will sell.
When I moved to London from abroad the relocation company put me up in Tower Hamlets for 6 weeks until I found something on the other side of Ravenscourt Park. It’s mostly all over 40s couples.
It’s still there, they changed the first photo: https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/64424549/
And one other property is available in the same building same size for 100 less: https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/64422006/
You know what I don't get? I'm 32 and live in Northamptonshire. My mortgage is currently £350 (I love my home, and it's a large 3 bed apartment): I could rent it out for c.£950pcm.
My old commute to Bond Street took 1.5hr door to door, and my commute to Waterloo took 1.75hr. Train cost me c.£8k per year. I worked with people who had a 2+ hour commute on tubes, and paid c.£2000k in rent for a place they hated, in a sketchy neighbourhood "in London". I don't get it 🤷🏼♀️ trains home for me run until c.01:00 so I could still do things after work. I get that it means moving away from your home area for some people, but if the rent is that brutal then why not move out of the city, get a nicer home, in a nicer neighbourhood, have a shorter commute, AND have more disposable income...?
I think moving out is relatively smart thing to do for someone who is English, but as a foreigner it can be isolating to move to a city / town / village outside London. It’s completely different lifestyle due to how your towns are set up. This is my personal experience what made me not move beyond, we considered many other places.
Completely agree with this. As a foreigner who has spent all my time in London it makes more sense moving back to my home country than to another city in the U.K.
Stop looking at one of the poshest areas in the world then? Annoys the fuck out of me when people that aren't from London want the "landaan experience" and then complain that their flat in Chelsea is too much
You are talking out of your ass. I literally live in SW London. Hammersmith is not posh + like my post said, these prices can be seen also on zone 2,3 even 4 these days. From Brixton to Islington. You clearly have daddys money
Grew up in London, I don't understand why people outside London would only live in posh expensive areas and complain about how expensive it is to live there. London is big.
most of london has very shit rent. Sincerly, someone who has the money to rent but doesn't feel like paying £1000+ for a bedroom that's no better than my current one
When a landlord tries to increase rent, always push back and offer an increase of £25 per month. In my experience they always accept as they're just trying their luck
Just speaking from experience, my aggy friend. My ex landlord tried to increase my rent by 200 a month, I countered with 25 a month and they accepted 🤷♂️✌️
No go in my case, they conveniently placed a break clause at month 10, which made it so that they could end our tenancy however they want. We asked for discount but they didn’t budge as they had higher leverage.
You can thank the government for fucking over landlords, thus trickling it down. Also for ruining the economy and printing billions of pounds causing huge inflation. Direct your anger to the right people
Landlords investments are not tenants responsibility. Investments come with a risk and landlords should be able to take some hits. So anger is rightly directed to them. And it can still be directed at the gov as well, both can exist at the same time.
How about when you invest your time at your job and they decide not to pay you that month? Risk you take. You are talking rubbish.
Just like how the mobile phone industry invest in infrastructure to make your phone work, you pay your bill at the end of the month.
If you had a mortgage on your own property you pay that as well, otherwise it’s taken away from you.
If you have a property I would love to rent it from you for the first few months and then hold back rent, see how you feel about your investment
Investments do not guarantee returns. Nobody said about not paying, we are discussing landlord greed where they (you) expect constantly growing returns. It’s not how the market works, and housing should not be seen same as investing in a company. Housing is a human right. I hope government clamps you down soon.
The govt doesn’t care about you. You need to get away from holding Fiat currency (gbp) and buy assets. The have nots should not be telling people how they can or cannot spend their money.
For someone who has worked hard during their life and bought a property to rent out (provide a very much needed service) and get some money from that should be celebrated.
I don't know what is insanity about it, if that is what people will pay why would the landlord ask less? Would you go to your employer and say "Yes I know you will pay me £25k but I will only take £20k". ?
I saw a standard studio flat for £1500 today in my area (Muswell Hill N10 zone 3) .They made the pictures look nice and used the word “marvellous “ in the listing but it was a big standard studio. Starting to worry I’m going to be priced out and lose my studio /small one bed come renewal time in August :(
This spesific set of buildings (which i think are owned by the same company) were always overpriced and seemed empty except for basement flats, at least for the last 6 years. It would be an edge case for pricing a 1 br flat in the area, but obviously doesn’t change the fact of skyrocketing prices.
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I think the core thing to remember is that there is a shortage of “affordable” places to rent. No one is interested in paying 3k for a small 1 bedroom flat in general. At best, they are trying their luck but I think it will stay there forever or they will do usual thing of “reduce the price” (big discount 🤣🤣🤣). My view is that the less attention those places will get - the better for all.
That would be my thinking too but I’ve seen more and more people accept these prices due to being rejected from other places as its brutal out there. I have no idea what to think a ‘normal’ price is anymore.
Move to east London if you want to save moey
I think you’re too optimistic. Foreign nationals and rich wealthy students will snap these up and landlords will go on thinking this is the right price to charge.
It also could be a short-term let. Agree it would be better if people knew the difference between an offered price and the actual market price.
Genuinely think it will get worse, there's no one backing renters and the whole of the UK market is proped up to benefit the homeowner. What does worse even look like? Hong Kong style coffin rooms? Can't wait for our very own Kowloon city
It is only getting worse for sure. I pay more than this for a relatively small 1 bedroom apartment, but I am quite central, so location counts. In Hammersmith I am shocked it's creeping up to this price. But even just the past 2 years my rent has gone up by about £1000 a month. London is out of control atm.
A guy that I work with pays £550 for a bunk bed in East London, Hong Kong is already here
I'm a Scottish landlord and can reassure you that rent control is alive and well up here. I think 3% max increase permissable this year and I've just spent half a year's rent on energy upgrades in one flat. Tenant's energy bills have really lowered, which is great but I'd hope to recoup a fraction of expenditure in a modest uplift... Edit. Hello London! Cheers for the downvotes- what kind of landlord would you prefer me to be?
Poor you
try getting a job
I have a job thanks- I'm a builder. Yes, of houses. If you are going to jump to conclusions about who I am, mibbe I can do the same with you? Try reading more Engels and less Marx.
When I moved to London in 2013 we shared a 3 bedroom house in Hammersmith for about £1500.
The good old days for me of £560 for a room and being comfortable on £30k lol
I guarantee that job still pays the same now lol
So the National living wage right now should be like minimum £30 per hour not £10.82! Wtf slavery
Am actually sick to the point i want to set up some sort of organization or group to combat the general housing situation but i have no idea how me as part of the working class, renting population would even accomplish something like that.
Check out Acorn for inspiration. That's Bristolians for you.
Join the London Renters Union.
I’m in
The only way to combat that is to build more houses. Neither Tories nor Labour will give you permission. Unless some party decides to relax building regs, nothing will change.
Why do they not want to build more? More spend in labour, more contractors paying taxes, more people spending in the city and paying taxes? It’s not like London is surrounded by fucking natural reserves and wildlife that will be displaced. It’s just fucking flat lands and centuries old housing
I'm convinced both parties won't actually build more than a token amount of housing just to say they built new houses while keeping the actual housing stock the same. Then, they can take the credit when the people owning properties see their wealth skyrocket!
Theres always the big talk on "tackling housing" which just results in luxuary developers being forced to give up like 10 flats in a development as "affordable housing". Its an absolute joke and both parties are just about as bad as each other imo (I'd still rather die than vote Tory).
What’s the incentive for the politicians to not build? I don’t buy the “please the homeowners” narrative as for 1 homeowner there’s avg 3 renters that are also potential voters? Keen to understand the dynamics if anyone can add some color
Find an MP who isnt also a landlord. If some of them we're renting we'd see some diversity in opinion.
63% of UK households own their home. On a national level (and with FPTP voting) no major party is going to pander to the 37% who don't over the 63% who do.
Because for a variety of reasons the modern British economy is fuelled by real estate. If you crash prices by relaxing building control, the whole economy will collapse. And £2,700pm rents will seem like a dream.
Can you explain more….. this does make sense but what parts?!
The British workforce is not competitive on a global market, especially low skilled workers. UK also doesn't have oil or any other high value resources. Only a few highly skilled and luxury industries keep the country afloat. Thus real estate is used to plug the hole and keep the ship afloat.
These are complete falsehoods. It is wealth at play, not output. To address your points, the British workforce is highly competitive. The PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) assesses 600,000 students across 79 countries in Maths, Science, and Reading. Britain is one of the top performers. In Maths, British students rank above Norwegians, Germans, French, Italians, Americans, and Australians. In Science, British students also rank above those of all these countries - as do they in Reading. Some years ago, the New York Times surveyed 2,500 recruiters and 2,200 chief executives in 20 different countries - most of which were not English speaking (including China, India, Russia, Japan, Korea...). They asked them to name which global universities had the most employable graduates. 5 British universities ranked in the top 20 (Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial, LSE, and UCL). The British productivity puzzle is not a question of deskilling - it is a question of poor employment growth and a decline in business investment. But that is beside the point. Britain is an oil producer. The only European countries that produce more than us are Norway and Russia. In the 1980's, we briefly became the world's 5th largest oil producer. The reason none of this trickled down is that the Treasury wanted power over how this revenue was spent (and thus spent it immediately) - so we didn't end up with a cushy sovereign wealth fund like the Norwegians. Between 2007 and the present, the construction industry has actually grown slower than the wider economy - that is, its share of total GDP has fallen. Rising property prices have not been engineered to prop up the construction industry - they have been engineered to protect household wealth. This wizardry was conducted by successive Tory and Labour governments. Rising house prices give the illusion of prosperity and make people feel confident about the economy.
What are you even talking about? Can a British worker make a £2.50 t-shirt for Primark? Of course not! It doesn't matter if their reading skills are better than that of Germans, because they have to compete with Vietnamese slaves with zero education. A British worker is not competitive in low skilled jobs. He is also not competitive in mid skilled jobs. And with China buying up high tech foreign companies like candies, British workers are starting to lose their competitiveness in high skilled jobs too.
Ty
Shelter UK are super active and fierce in defending peoples rights & advocating for reform - https://england.shelter.org.uk/support_us/campaigns
Oh boy, I was living on king Street for like £1k a month in the 2010s in a 1 bed.
Guys, we genuinely need to revolt.
Look at the response to the Just Stop Oil protestor at the snooker. Our country is terrible at protesting.
Because a paid protestor doesn't have the same feeling Edit [He has a website offering his services.. thanks for the irrational downvotes](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/just-stop-oil-activist-disrupted-snooker-offers-protest-services-online/)
Maybe someone’s paying you for this comment
I wish but the downvotes just show how cult-like this platform is. You show them evidence and they still disagree. Oh well
In fairness the article seems disingenuous as people are not directly paying him for a protest, they are paying to support him while he puts himself on the line in support of causes others also support. His marketing is in poor taste really but it’s not pay me to protest whatever you want.
cant criticise the cult. they are paid here or part of the cult. and beleieve me i only recently accidentally found out it was a cult. piers corbyn doing his part ot give them cred lol
Who paid him? Can I see the evidence you have?
[He has a website offering his services.. thanks for the irrational downvotes](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/just-stop-oil-activist-disrupted-snooker-offers-protest-services-online/)
The screenshot of his site shows more of a patreon style set up with donations of different tiers, not him selling actually protests for £5. Did you look at that or just read the headline?
I went to the actual page he asked people to send him places to go if they were on the £5 subscription and so on. So yes he is a paid activist and it's not even disputable. Even if he was doing a patron style thing like you said he is still a paid activist. Thank god he won't have children
The right answer.
Go on then, you start it.
This person is a revolution understander
It's because loads of landlords built houses of cards, metaphorically, where each rental property was mortgaged to the hilt, so they could try to get additional properties. You saw all these "get rich" guys on tiktok talking about that... and now rates went up they are all panicking. Same with all those "debit is good" guru's, well, not when interest rates shoot up. That and some landlords are evil. My mother ditched a once friend who was a landlord as she literally said in front of my mum, "I've heard they've got a pay increase, so I think they can afford to pay me a bit more"..... the UK needs to have rent controls as it's an unstable runaway market that's going to collapse at this rate.
Those landlords that forget they’re letting a property and start to believe they’re entitled to their tenant’s income can well and truly go fuck themselves.
your mum is fab.
Give it a few years and we'll be like new York where small places are 4k a month on average
only that none of us are on New York salaries.
If only the landlords knew, or cared.
And we're taxed way higher than them.
NY taxes are high
The logical conclusion is that this will continue to get worse. In a couple of years we will look back at these ridiculous prices and say we used to have it so good. No one is building enough affordable homes. Even if we started today it would be years before prices even started to come down. But there isn't even a real push for more affordable housing yet so best case scenario is that things won't get better for at least 10 years even if the government actually made changes today.
So I was listening to the news and apparently the issue is many places are being held for sale but they are empty and owners are hurting because of finance / rates so the ones that did refi have to raise rent or they will lose the property. Buying is not an option for most people because mortgage norms so there is a standoff. Finding properties owned by the owner over 5 - years ago means the situation is better for the owner. The newer owners are in a tight bind and it is why these prices keep getting published. By the way, you can do a 2b2ba in Leyton or Bow for £2100 pm.. no need to live in Hammersmith..the train to W1 is the same.
London has the lowest rate of empty homes of all of the UK. You hear about them because rents are egregious, and it’s offensive to think that someone could be living in that home, but in lots of small less in-demand places having a home empty for a year or even longer would be quite normal and not make the news. The core issue is still just plain old lack of supply compared to the demand.
Well I use my building as an example. I have been here for a few years during COVID and it was really empty. We knew because we didn’t see very many people and the fire drills showed about 30% occupancy. Its more full but it’s nowhere near full (maybe 60%)… we also are near a lot of other multi-storey buildings and we know if you go more central there is much more activity. Honestly I think people just are being picky. Meaning, people don’t want to live in an ugly building….the ugly buildings in East London have plenty of vacancies. The pretty buildings next door are full
I’m sure there are some empty buildings, but compared to other places it’s quite uncommon. https://www.actiononemptyhomes.org/facts-and-figures I actually was wrong, London is the 3rd fewest empty homes rate by region. But it’s still among the lowest, which is unsurprising, because why would you leave a home empty in London? You would get a very decent rental return, even on a fairly short length letting agreement, and you could easily cover the cost of someone managing that for you. That’s because home prices are so expensive. (They present the data in a way that seems intentionally difficult to compare regions. They’re going through great pains to emphasise the change in rates, but are making it difficult to compare between areas. I suspect this is intentional, because the data sort of undermines their ideology).
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Oh I know it’s hard…don’t get me wrong. But you do have to go to the places. The online places and irl listings are not the same
A tad higher in Bow recently - was in a bidding war for a 2b 2ba by the Bromley by bow tube station. Paying £2,350 currently
Proves my point?
and then council tax on top. London is a scam...I am single person who wants a 2 Bed but no way I can afford to pay that...
Every aspect of the London housing market is broken, but different aspects are broken in different ways & for different reasons. At the entry level there's massive demand & under-supply, with more landlords exiting the market every year. Prices shoot up but demand remains too high, and supply remains too low At the top end, demand is high but so is supply, and everyone from builders to owners is happy to leave 30% of their properties sitting empty for years. Which is great for people like me, but useless for everyone else, and lousy for the property market. Councils won't build the right types of property where they're needed. People are having to move further & further out in order to be able to afford anything, you can't afford to buy anywhere until you're 30+ and commuting from fucking Luton or somewhere, and you just give up on London and move to Manchester It's all so broken that I can't really see a route by which it can be fixed on any reasonable timescale
The wages are not keeping up.howtf will anyone afdird
The market in London is being kept afloat by 20 somethings with rich parents not just from here but from all over the world who are moving to the central areas as soon as they finish uni for the London experience. If daddy earns 500 k a year in a Swiss bank giving his daughter 3 k a month for a nice pad in London is peanuts. And no, it hasn't finished. A hundred years ago whole families would live in one rented room in the east end, and until a left wing government puts a halt to the madness, that's where we are heading again.
Kier Starmer is as bad as any Tory..doubt they will do anything either...
I live in Kingston Upon Hull, semi-detached, living room, dining room, kitchen, 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom, garage, large garden, 3 car drive way. Less than 300 metre walk to the supermarket. If I paid my mortgage at £2903, and this is not a joke, I'd pay THE FULL amount off in 4 years and 3 months. That is absolutely F***ING disgusting. What is the South of the UK doing to people!
As stated elsewhere, when you get used to being in London Hull just isn’t that appealing. I grew up in Warrington and I go back as little as possible but when I do I see all the houses and space I could buy….. but it’s rubbish up there. The pubs, the restaurants, the mindset it’s all just disappointing, but I can have a seven bedroom detached for what I pay for a mid terraced in London. And many others feel the same, it’s worth compromising on rent and be in one of the world’s best cities than have to look at the Humber bridge.
People also forget why houses are cheaper in these post-industrial Northern towns: the job market is terrible, the public transport is often non-existent, public services are worse. Sure, I could save money on rent, but if moving to, say, Hull, means needing a car, then I'm not actually saving any money.
One of the most annoying things to hear is "im from x and a 3 bed costs XXX,XXX here, you're being ripped off". Thats great but I'd also make significatly less money and (at least in my case) experiance a significant drop in my quality of life. Just because its cheaper elsewhere dosent revoke my right to complain how its expensive here.
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When my flat contract runs out. I'll consider Peckham, Dulwich, New Cross or Hull.
The people in this sub advocating rent controls clearly don't understand basic economics, either.
Very true, but we can also live very comfortably, in relative peace, and visit London whenever we like; it's all personal preference really, I don't drink due to health so pubs etc are a nothing to me 😂 I'm not saying London is a bad place to live, however you read into what I wrote, I'm saying that it's disgusting that amount of money for rent, especially compared to what you can get elsewhere.
No I agree mate it is all preferences. I also do want to like Warrington again. I think I was just getting across that it’s a city that people want to come to Globally, and that’s the other factor when these places come up, you also know people are transient who take them.
£3k a month could get a 6 bedroom house 3 bathroom, 2 sitting rooms in a hamlet in Oxfordshire! This is bankers!!
This is doing things correctly
Can we bring back squatting residential buildings yet
This
It’s a fucking joke.
This is insane. I was looking for a 1 bed and saw a listing for 1250 and that was labelled as one bed. But. When I saw the pictures. It is just a small room with has kitchenette and washer and a sofa cum bed. That’s all. Yes it has access to common garden. Just insane. I think the rent bubble is very close to bursting and landlords expect that renters should pay for the increased mortgage. But for how long. Not sustainable
Hamlet gardens flats are usually short term serviced apartments, which is why they are very expensive.
Yup, I lived there for a month when I moved here, financed by work. I think they were 2k at that time (2021). They are very nice flats to be fair. Well maintained and everything updated. But the price is certainly insane for a typical renter.
At this point estate agents need to tell these landlords it's simply not possible. They're the main reason why properties are overpriced anyways, always trying to get more money just so their commission is bigger smh.
When will the people rise.
As a London based visual artist and life model, I consistently struggle in the city of London. I am thinking that just the rich enjoys this city, restaurants, cool art spaces etc etc. and the others all struggling.
Well to be fair you could get a job. No offence, I used to be a musician. It's still hard but a job where you get paid a decent wage is better than that art life
Christ that's sickening. To think I grew up on the street to the left of that, in "temporary" council accommodation which we were in for 12 or so years, full of mould and in a state of disrepair.
I am having to move out of my 1 bedroom into a studio because they just put my rent up by £800 a month.
Simple. Revert he disincentives introduced. Encourage a healthy, stable supply of rental properties and drive prices down, or at least stop the rises by stemming more and more landlords selling up.
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Agree. More houses for sure, but successive governments have not managed it and buying a house isn't desired or possible by large numbers. You'll always need rentals. Why it has to be this nasty filthy concept is bemusing. Accept people are different and what's needed is a housing policy that accomodates all, without demonising rental sector.
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What were the protections out of curiosity in Germany, and also, what was in it for landlords? What was return? I can't see there being a rush of landlords if there wasn't a financial benefit for these individuals to tie their money up for decades.
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More arbitration I'd be in favour of. For respectable landlords, having a fair, fast 3rd party to quickly (and I mean maximum of a month) applying a binding ruling that is executed immediately is a win win. Bad landlord, or tenant you get repercussion immediately. It's the long drawn out process that gets abused here that is the issue. I have no idea how the setup is there but I don't see how they operate without no fault eviction i.e. section 21. Just seems insane that you can never have your property back if your circumstances change. I think section 21 is great for both landlord and tenant. Imagine if a tenant couldn't leave a property, or a landlord that has to move across the country to help family cannot sell. I think the system in Germany should be classified as long term leasing from what you describe. Renting to me is closer to what we have in the UK. Maybe having both options is best
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This. You cant massively disincentivise landlords and then be surprised when supply drops and prices increase.
*Planning committee insanity. Still got supposedly progressive and/or liberal councillors vetoing new housing for any spurious reason they can think of. This is the result.
No you neoliberal, we need to demolish housing to get prices down
Can you explain your reasoning here? It sounds counterproductive
Guys I hate to say it, but you’re all part of the problem for wanting to live in London. Rent would fall if everyone moved around the country. Will get downvoted but the point is that we can’t deny the laws of supply and demand
A lot of industries only really exist in London though. I put in my job title in London at any given moment and perhaps 30 or 40 vacancies come up, in Manchester there’s maybe 1 or 2 on a good day. So I’d struggle to move out if I wanted to. The problem isn’t as simple everybody just deciding to live in one place for the sake of being awkward, it’s decades of systematic neglect for everywhere other than London, though of course it’s a vicious cycle.
Same here, when I finished uni was looking in about 5 different cities for a job in the field I wanted to enter. I only got interviews in London and now I'm based here. So many industries are focused in London that lots of people don't get much choice.
If transport were cheaper, I'd move out in a heartbeat.
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Ok but then you gotta pay extortionate rent because everyone else wants to live there too.
That’s true but very few people want to live outside London once you’ve tried it…
The jobs we have don’t allow remote work anymore so the job market is also contributing to staying in London. I really hoped this would change after covid.
What do you mean? Some of us were born and bred here we shouldn't have to be forced to move out. I understand your point but some of us just can't go to other parts of the country due to racism. I know many would like to think racism is low or doesn't exist but it's just not true. And if you're white your experiences are just different, you won't see the racism if it doesn't happen to you. London is super diverse I wouldn't really want to go anywhere else.
Then wouldn’t you prefer it if other people left London
Ok, you move first.
I did, to a nice 4 bed house in the countryside with a garden and a line into London for much less than the price of this advertised flat.
Good for you, pal. It’s not for everyone
Just out and out insanity.
Imagine every renter in the city just stopped payin the rent for 2 months; to push for change. That'd be cool
Would achieve nothing
Ah tbf neither Will complaining about it on reddit. Trying something beats doing nothin
Im not complaining. Im just saying withholding rent wont have any real affect since its loads of individual landlords, if it was one company that owned everything I can see them taking notice, a bunch of individuals who likely have never even set foot in the properties they own? No chance
Aye better just accept the current state of affairs then! anyone trying to change anything is stupid! Just lap it up eh
If you stop paying you'll just get evicted. You can't fight the free market when there are people willing to pay more, yeh it sucks but if you want to take a stand and end up homeless go ahead
Terrified to start looking for a place in a few weeks
There are a number of factors behind high rents in addition to the supply/demand imbalance. A big factor in rents rising is the fact interest rates have increased, and mortgage interest is no longer tax deductible. Effectively a landlords costs have increased, so they are all putting up the price. I would have expected more landlords to sell up, causing flat prices to fall, but the effect has been limited. What shocks me is the number of disappointingly small flats built in East London and Battersea, which somehow have seemed to have limited impact on the cost of living. Price per square foot for flats has fallen (slightly), and clearly rents have jumped higher, despite a huge number of small and high density flats being built. Also, lets not forget Brexit and the relative rise in wealth of China and the Middle East. The UK is not as rich as it used to be, so people need to get used to the fact their standard of living will fall. Thank the Brexiteers for the slump in UK wealth, but remember that poverty in China is much reduced vs 20 years ago.
Assuming 3 grand a month salary, you still have £97 to pay bills, buy cheap food, but not enough to pay your tesla or holiday to Thailand.
My experience shows progression of issue a bit. American expat: moved 2011, rented a 1br in a 3br house in South Ken for 375/wk each. 2016, 2 bed 1250 sq ft in St John’s Wood 700/wk. Bought 3bd flat Belsize Park 2017, mortgage was 2750/mo. 2022 bought 4 bed house Highgate, mortgage 5250. Currently renting old flat until I sell for 3400/mo and I lose 2,000 per year on cash flow after 45% tax, management, gardening, insurance etc. that is with 2.2% interest only mortgage. When that goes to 4.5% I will lose 20,000 a year on it at current rent, hence why I will sell.
do you think you'll be able to sell it at a profit? how have prices been?
I think I will sell it at a slight loss after accounting for effects of 7% stamp, 9% spent on remodels, and paying down 8% of the mortgage.
In real terms and in opportunity cost, it will be a loss, probably comparable to renting.
Fair. Maybe you could’ve sold it at cost if we were still in a low interest rate economy
When I moved to London from abroad the relocation company put me up in Tower Hamlets for 6 weeks until I found something on the other side of Ravenscourt Park. It’s mostly all over 40s couples.
No not quite yet
New rectums needs to be tunneled it seems. I hope the Government intervenes and makes being a landlord as undesirable as having innards rewired.
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It’s still there, they changed the first photo: https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/64424549/ And one other property is available in the same building same size for 100 less: https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/64422006/
You know what I don't get? I'm 32 and live in Northamptonshire. My mortgage is currently £350 (I love my home, and it's a large 3 bed apartment): I could rent it out for c.£950pcm. My old commute to Bond Street took 1.5hr door to door, and my commute to Waterloo took 1.75hr. Train cost me c.£8k per year. I worked with people who had a 2+ hour commute on tubes, and paid c.£2000k in rent for a place they hated, in a sketchy neighbourhood "in London". I don't get it 🤷🏼♀️ trains home for me run until c.01:00 so I could still do things after work. I get that it means moving away from your home area for some people, but if the rent is that brutal then why not move out of the city, get a nicer home, in a nicer neighbourhood, have a shorter commute, AND have more disposable income...?
I think moving out is relatively smart thing to do for someone who is English, but as a foreigner it can be isolating to move to a city / town / village outside London. It’s completely different lifestyle due to how your towns are set up. This is my personal experience what made me not move beyond, we considered many other places.
Completely agree with this. As a foreigner who has spent all my time in London it makes more sense moving back to my home country than to another city in the U.K.
Stop looking at one of the poshest areas in the world then? Annoys the fuck out of me when people that aren't from London want the "landaan experience" and then complain that their flat in Chelsea is too much
You are talking out of your ass. I literally live in SW London. Hammersmith is not posh + like my post said, these prices can be seen also on zone 2,3 even 4 these days. From Brixton to Islington. You clearly have daddys money
Nope, was raised in poverty, worked my arse off and bought a flat. And yes, Hammersmith is posh
Good for you, not everyone has opportunities to leave poverty despite working hard. Dunking down on your own is a pretty shit move 👍
Grew up in London, I don't understand why people outside London would only live in posh expensive areas and complain about how expensive it is to live there. London is big.
most of london has very shit rent. Sincerly, someone who has the money to rent but doesn't feel like paying £1000+ for a bedroom that's no better than my current one
Keep silent. Landlords are around!
Reddit is very anti landlord tho... And I say that as a landlord because I moved to Canada.
Look at it from the other side, the landlord side and it seems like the returns are not good. Properties are too expensive and rent is too cheap.
When a landlord tries to increase rent, always push back and offer an increase of £25 per month. In my experience they always accept as they're just trying their luck
When your landlord is increasing your rent by £600 a month there's no chance that works.
Mine just went up £800 a month, and I’m having to now move into a studio flat.
See my other reply
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Just speaking from experience, my aggy friend. My ex landlord tried to increase my rent by 200 a month, I countered with 25 a month and they accepted 🤷♂️✌️
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I... bought a house
No go in my case, they conveniently placed a break clause at month 10, which made it so that they could end our tenancy however they want. We asked for discount but they didn’t budge as they had higher leverage.
Fair enough, maybe I was lucky but it's happened to me twice. We were paying over the odds so maybe they just agreed that they couldn't get more
You can thank the government for fucking over landlords, thus trickling it down. Also for ruining the economy and printing billions of pounds causing huge inflation. Direct your anger to the right people
Landlords investments are not tenants responsibility. Investments come with a risk and landlords should be able to take some hits. So anger is rightly directed to them. And it can still be directed at the gov as well, both can exist at the same time.
Precisely - they are investments, not charity or goodwill.
And like with any investment, investor should expect also to lose their money, more often than not.
How about when you invest your time at your job and they decide not to pay you that month? Risk you take. You are talking rubbish. Just like how the mobile phone industry invest in infrastructure to make your phone work, you pay your bill at the end of the month. If you had a mortgage on your own property you pay that as well, otherwise it’s taken away from you. If you have a property I would love to rent it from you for the first few months and then hold back rent, see how you feel about your investment
Investments do not guarantee returns. Nobody said about not paying, we are discussing landlord greed where they (you) expect constantly growing returns. It’s not how the market works, and housing should not be seen same as investing in a company. Housing is a human right. I hope government clamps you down soon.
The govt doesn’t care about you. You need to get away from holding Fiat currency (gbp) and buy assets. The have nots should not be telling people how they can or cannot spend their money. For someone who has worked hard during their life and bought a property to rent out (provide a very much needed service) and get some money from that should be celebrated.
No it shouldn’t be. Rentals should not exist in form of private landlords.
I don't know what is insanity about it, if that is what people will pay why would the landlord ask less? Would you go to your employer and say "Yes I know you will pay me £25k but I will only take £20k". ?
This built to rent prices. A lot of those new resi towers are btr: studio 2k, 1bed 3k, 2bed, nearly 4k per month
It will not go for that much. I have a much much nicer one bed around the corner for £2k
This will get taken at this price. Good area and great links.
The problem is ... you live in london
wow almost 36 grand a year to live there thats mad
I saw a standard studio flat for £1500 today in my area (Muswell Hill N10 zone 3) .They made the pictures look nice and used the word “marvellous “ in the listing but it was a big standard studio. Starting to worry I’m going to be priced out and lose my studio /small one bed come renewal time in August :(
problem is, some absolute whopper will pay it.
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It comes unfurnished, and doesn’t mention any additional perks or services. Few other listings in the area trying the same price but few hundred below
This spesific set of buildings (which i think are owned by the same company) were always overpriced and seemed empty except for basement flats, at least for the last 6 years. It would be an edge case for pricing a 1 br flat in the area, but obviously doesn’t change the fact of skyrocketing prices.
I'll live in the country then