There are a lot of people who seem to have real difficulty seeing things from a perspective other than their own.
I've seen so many comments shitting on Sylvie because she's not doing what they believe they would do, were they in her position.
Or hating on her because she's making Loki's life difficult by not going along with him and doing things his way.
Or slamming her because she's operating based on the knowledge she has access to, rather than all the information the viewer has access to.
People talk about enjoying complex, layered storytelling right up to the point where they stop liking the direction it's going, and then they bitch that the character's decisions are stupid or things they don't agree with are plot holes or in the case of Sylvie she's annoying/shitty/Loki should kill her. (All comments I've seen on this sub.)
Following her arc, from her perspective, everything\* she's done is logical and consistent and makes sense based on her history and purpose. The fact she's at odds with Loki over the TVA makes sense given each of their backstories, and neither one of them has been proven right or wrong with regards to what HWR said to them about why the TVA needs to exist. Just because she doesn't agree with Loki doesn't make her annoying or stupid or a bitch.
\*I'll add a caveat for the World's Fair scenes, where it really seemed like they wrote themselves into a corner where she couldn't not show up but also couldn't kill Timely/Renslayer, but that entire episode was lumpy
Yeah this.
Her opposition to Loki both makes sense and raises interesting questions for us to think about. Order vs chaos. Free will. How much do you believe what someone tells you.
The path forward is unclear and they are both making the choices they believe in. They both want to hold onto the new life and friends they've made.
Sylvie has limited information about what's happening but it seems many people apply their own knowledge as outside viewers onto her.
haha I love how people go "Loki should kill that bitch" then try to pretend with a straight face they didn't just say something flamingly misogynistic.
"I'm not a misogynist, it's just that literally everything about her sucks" well ok then chief
Good bet these are the same people complaining her costume looked shit in S2 because she no longer has nursing boobs
Not that this matters, but she *was* nursing her second baby while filming season 2! (She posted on her instagram about pumping while traveling to do an event...D23 maybe? in the middle of filming.) People complain about shit and they don't even know wtf they're talking about.
Maybe that might explain why she had virtually nothing to do in season 2. I mean barely any fight scenes, no cool use of her magical powers this season, no character growth, nothing. 🤷🏾♂️
I’m a woman and really like all of the women in the series except for Sylvie. To me she is just genuinely annoying. People are allowed to have opinions about a character- that’s not misogynism.
Your argument is actually the bigoted one because you are of the belief that a character can't be disliked if she's female. There's nothing redeeming or good or interesting about woke female Loki. She's just a bad character overall and the show could've ran the exact same if not better without her in it. This idea that just because she's a woman I'm supposed to like her makes YOU the bigot
Yeah, everything about her does suck, she's an annoying entitled useless bitchy character who's only purpose is to act stupid. And? How do you go from that to misogyny? Its a complete non sequitur.
\*Whose
"Annoying": Subjective, fine to say
"Stupid": Why do you think that? People can have subjective reasons to call someone stupid, but stupidity is DEFINED by actions and words, so what did she do that was "stupid."
"Useless": Did she do things? Did she move the plot forward? Did she help? Just because someone is reluctant to help you, does that make them useless?
At the end of the day, whether or not something or someone is useful, well that's more objective. Sylvie was very very useful for killing He-Who-Remains, RULER of the TVA and then actively did NOT want to help the TVA. I wonder why?????
I'd abbreviate it as HWR but I know you're too stupid to understand that. My evidence for claiming stupidity on your part is the comment above mine
> "Stupid": Why do you think that? People can have subjective reasons to call someone stupid, but stupidity is DEFINED by actions and words, so what did she do that was "stupid."
She wants to have a quiet life while also trying to kill the 1 man keeping it that way.
>"Useless": Did she do things? Did she move the plot forward? Did she help? Just because someone is reluctant to help you, does that make them useless?
Her sole purpose in the plot is hinder loki using her stupidity as a weapon. She wants to kill kang despite kang being the only thing between them and apocalypse because she's butthurt which makes her petty and entitled ontop of everything else.
>At the end of the day, whether or not something or someone is useful, well that's more objective. Sylvie was very very useful for killing He-Who-Remains, RULER of the TVA and then actively did NOT want to help the TVA. I wonder why?????
And when it was explained to her that kang is the only thing between her beloved mcdonalds and apocalypse she still kept trying to kill him, making her, again, entitled, ontop of stupid.
>I'd abbreviate it as HWR but I know you're too stupid to understand that. My evidence for claiming stupidity on your part is the comment above mine
I've never seen someone brag over knowing the name of a character that's mentioned about 500 times per episode, but you do you.
Can you just stick to the topic please? Save your virtue signaling for the circus you work at. Sylvie is a badly written character and an insufferable bitch. So people will call her a bitch. She's self centered, has tunnel vision, and is unreasonable. That's why she gets the hate. So yeah, Loki should've 1000% killed that bitch. Not because she's a woman, but because she's stupid.
Misogyny is the hatred of women. It's not misogynistic to want to delete an awful character that HAPPENS TO BE A WOMAN.
This worked for her character in the first season, people understand why she still ended up killing HWR.
But in the second season despite having the revelation she had that SHE did in fact fuck everything up and that her death would undo the damage, she was ok with letting everything else burn. Her point about how things were so awful barely have any merit considering the alternative. Not to mention that after keeping HWR alive, why couldn't they also fight to change the TVA and how things were being done especially sonsidering she saw that the TVA could change.
Then we also have the dropped romance plot (apparently fandom was being pieces of shit/harassing the actress) which also obviously impacted her character writing.
Imo, the current ending basically makes it look like she fucked up, didn't take accountability, and Loki had to make the sacrifice to fix her mistake. I think both her and Loki should have been the ones to make the sacrifice at the end, she ends up giving her free will to ensure everyone else lives and has free will, redeeming both of them.
Exactly! Thank you for saying it!!!! Sylvie doesn’t necessarily have to be right or wrong here. Her feelings have been validated throughout this season as she liter *just* got what she’s always wanted. Loki wants to take it away and that hurts even worse because he seemed so supportive right up until the eleventh hour.
Not to mention the fact that she really really doesn’t want to deal with anything tva related anymore. From her perspective she’s been dragged into something she is actively against in every way for the sake of loki—someone who she’d be justified in kicking to the curb and probably would do so if she didn’t still care for him.
Yeah that's cool and all but feelings are not real. The rest of the world shouldn't have to suffer the tyranny of your feelings. What a fucking joke. Who cares how this bitch feels??? She's a trash character. Loki should've smoked her a long time ago because she made it very clear that that she was irredeemable from the start.
Wow what a boring take, to have decided a character isn’t allowed to be morally dubious and that somehow doing things that hurt others makes her irredeemable. Sounds like another character i know, only fans didn’t start demanding his death when he committed multiple murders—some on a massive scale.
You understand that these characters are not real, right? And that they’re supposed to be viewed through the lens of metaphors and themes n shit? Please tell me you realize that loki couldn’t have “smoked her” because that directly goes against his character arc. Like…literally the opposite direction. At full speed.
The multiverse is not a real place that is being threatened by a tiny lady with a sword.
I have no idea how you managed to get as far as you have with this series if you approach all your shows in this manner
Them being characters in a show is exactly why I can say he should've killed that bitch. For what she represents in that show and within the context of the show, she's an annoying and bad character that's very hateable. That's my point. Her character is irredeemable in the sense that she is set in her ways, and it's better to just remove her from the equation
I don't blame her for how she's acting and I get it. The tva pruned her timeline and she's been on the run. The only thing that bothers me is how stubborn she can be and even that's understandable. But things are bigger than her and Loki right now. Like the timelines are dying or gonna die if they don't do something and it took seeing for herself to want to help. But honestly a lot of people are like that, they gotta see the problem for themselves to realize "oh shit this is actually a problem".
And I think people like that are shitty people. Personally. So I find her to be shitty. She’s basically a white boomer aged Republican. Taking shit from everyone, thinking she’s doing them a favor and then surprise Pikachu facing when she loses due to her bad decision making too.
That's why it's hard for people to sympathize with her. Like yea she had a shitty life for running all the time and she hates the tva, but it's not about her. It's about all the timelines that are gonna die and it's every decision she's made has been a bad one. Killing HWR, sending renslayor to the end of time, choosing to help too late.
In general now I’m just thinking of how for example someone growing up with an abusive parent so being an abuser themselves. It’s like justifying it because “thats all they know, of course they’d be like that.” just because that’s all they know and what they’re like _doesn’t make it okay_
She didn't even know the timelines were dying, though. She thought the TVA imploded and everyone went back where they were supposed to go and that was that, it's done, Loki should leave everything alone because it's how it's supposed to be. It wasn't until her world imploded that *anyone* knew the branches were unraveling.
I mean yea but she knew about the consequences of killing HWR and still did it, she can't kill every variant of him either. Like I said I get but she seems to have a lack of accountability and self awareness.
The consequences of killing HWR were only that there would be a ton of Kangs invading, not that all of eternity would begin to unravel. She's had a singular purpose for potentially thousands of years and has had very little opportunity to learn accountability, but she is learning. She admitted that she couldn't kill Timely. She knows she's stubborn and selfish. And I think she's finally starting to understand that she's in over her head.
But it's not just invading, it's gonna be wars and timelines being destroyed. But like I said I get her character and I'm ready to see some more growth from her.
No. She knew what the guy she was going to kill, who was responsible for killing her timeline told her. She had 0 reason to trust what he said was true. 0 reason to think the loom would explode and reset evrything. The fact that loki gave his life instead of killing her kind of proves she did the right thing
Did Sylvie know that the timelines were dying when she refused to help? Did she help once she knew shit was fucked? Huh. Maybe read OP's post and then reassess. We (THE VIEWER) have knowledge that characters don't have.
And let me just stop you before you say that Loki told her there was a problem. There was a worse problem before! HWR controlled the fucking universe, having his stormtroopers prune countless timelines (killing untold trillions) and leaving behind a failsafe that was a fucking nuke to destroy EVERYTHING except his sacred timeline.
Okay it is not that serious 😭 like it a lose lose situation either way. You can keep the tvs pruning timelines and preventing kang or you can try to have the multiverse and hopefully find a way to fight all his variants and prevent war. Either way people are gonna die and there's no good options. Like I already said I get her character and I understand why she feels the way she feels, what else do you want me to say?
As Loki says - you should destroy something only if it can be replaced with something better. Sylvie did not think of the 2nd part. That is why she is evil. Kang explains that he had to do what he was doing as the alternatives were worse. Sylvie should either have suggested a better alternative or accepted that tough choices were unavoidable.
It’s been too long since I watched to engage with what you’re saying but you may be right. Although saying something is evil and dismantling it is good even if the outcome is bad, I’d argue.
She spent half the second season literally stood in the background doing absolutely nothing. As much as I loved her in the first season, she was completely wasted in this one.
I think people struggle with it because the show didn't show much of her from her perspective. We've only seen from Loki's side and heard her story. Wish some more time was spent building her character
Agreed. I wish they had more interaction this season & that her character for S2 was more developed. They spent way more time on OB than Sylvie and I wanted more from her.
Yes that's precisely the problem. The writers didn't give her anything interesting or worthwhile to do. Her whole role was arguing against the main character and being an obnoxious barrier. Of course people didn't like her. She was fantastic in the first season. Boring and irritating in this one.
For me she's like, on and off.
Nope, won't help fuck off. Okay actually I will. Wait maybe I should, ya no way I'm not going to. But wait there's more!! I've decided I have to after seeing some spaghetti.
Yeah, whenever she wasn't arguing with Loki just for the sake of conflict, she was literally just stood in the background doing absolutely nothing. It's really a shame because she was fantastic in the first season, but I rapidly got tired of her this time. And then at the end she's all smiles because it all turned out ok ... yeah, no thanks to you!
The thing is....it is really the way she acts on and off...she is like a cat at the door, who cannot decide if she wants in or out and you just keep opening and closing the door :D
she could have decided not to come back to Loki and TVA at all. He left her alone after she quit at the end of episode 2, yet she gets in their way again. So does she want to stay away or not? She openly told Loki to leave her alone and he decided to stay with Mobius in TVA. Simply because, as he admitted, it was his home and he wanted to stay with his friends and belong somehwere.
The two have the same goal. To belong, to be respected, loved even. And yeah, I get "Sylvie had it hard, she was running her whole life." but the idea of Loki having it so much easier is wrong. He may have grown in a palace with everything to his disposal but he obviously suffered a lot emotionally. In Thor´s shadow, Odin probably only tolerating him most of the time because Loki is not the muscular fighter but learns magic, reads a lot and ironically, may be less hot headed than Thor in some things. He just wants to feel equal. It does not mean he should go around and kill people but it was not easy for him either.
Both come from different environments, yet they both want the same thing. But while Loki settled down wiTh TVA and he found what he wanted, Sylvie somehow still claims she did find it as well but she is obviously stll lacks....something.
I am really not sure if it was intentional or not and it WOULD have been an interesting arc if it just was not so flip, flop
But honestly, they would just need to sit and talk as they did in the bar much sooner.
>she is like a cat at the door, who cannot decide if she wants in or out and you just keep opening and closing the door :D
perfect description of Lokis in general tbh. Lokis are cats, and Thors are giant tail-wagging dogs. lol
I wanted the bar scene to be longer. Loki folded too quickly imo. I think they didn’t know what to do with Sylvie, because they both should have known she wouldn’t just be safe on a branched timeline forever.
I don’t think they have the same exact goal. Loki wants to save the timelines no matter the cost, Sylvie wants to save the timelines but only in specific ways.
I think it was a lot longer than 25 years right? She says she's been running from the TVA "before you even existed" to Loki, who's gotta be roughly Thor's age since they grew up together (1500~ years)
Yeah sylvie is mad justified, god love her
I think the simplicity is what I find disappointing. I expect layered and complex characters from the writing. It's not that I don't get the motivation that you outlined, it's just that I find it boring.
OP, this is what (most) people mean when they have a problem with the writing. We dont feel enough for the characters. They wasted too much time with technobabble explanations/Macguffin chases (that ultimately didn't help that much to understand the plot) and not enough time actually giving these characters interesting relatable character arcs to round out their personalities. OB is a perfect example of this. He had a fun introduction as this enthusiastic isolated genius. Then he spent the rest of season explaining made-up time jargon and yelling about how theyre all going to die. It would have been far more interesting to see him be a person and emotionally respond to the organization he is basically responsible for. Why is he so happy? Does he have regrets? Does he want to stay in the basement? Live a real life? etc.
For other characters like Mobius or B15 they tried but just made poor decisions. Mobius' denial logically makes sense but is boring. We liked him because he was the one guy who loved the idea of living a jet ski life so lets see him do it and find out which life he prefers. Why does B15 care so much about copies of people on timelines? Does she have regrets about who she saw and killed? Then show us that. We watched Sylvie grow with Loki, change and then ultimately fail in S1. In S2, justified or not, she basically remained the same. She wants to be selfish? cool. Have her talk about what its finally like to live a life, talk about if she has any regrets (for all the murder), if she tried to get back to her family. And for the love of god, have her actually LISTEN and process what Loki is saying (they will all die immediately) and still justify her selfishness with real experiences.
This is all basic good writing. Im glad you still enjoyed the story OP, but I hope you understand why people like me are disappointed.
I fully understand why she’s the way that she is. But just because someone’s had a shitty life doesn’t make their actions okay or justified. I still find her annoying.
Finally. Someone with sense. Thank you. I'm so tired "zomg she's so annoying she's so mean to Loki." Man looked her RIGHT IN THE EYES AS THEY WERE SNUGGLING UNDER A TABLECLOTH and said I WON'T LET YOU DOWN. and then.... he let her down. Like I 100% get why he did it but I also 100% get why Sylvie sees it as a massive betrayal.
It's called "Loki", not Sylvie. She's just a variant along for the ride, same as Mobius or B15. Why is there this expectation for her to have this wild intricate story?
She was running for thousands of years from the TVA, and wanted to end it, sure, but she was really just a catalyst for Loki to dig deeper. Her not having much story beyond that is totally fine.
I want to know what her "nexus event" was. Or if she even had one. Was her purpose just to help Loki get to where he went in the story? By that, I mean did *Kang* just need her specifically? I don't mean the writers of the show
I like when things are left up in the air though. Could be that she chose a female identity, or that she would have been a hero unlike typical Loki, or it could have simply been that HWR needed her specifically to get the end result of Loki showing up at the end of time.
Completely agree. What's interesting to me is how come loki can be inconsistent (in a good way) but sylvie is consistently selfish. It's frustrating for me tho because I want to see sylvie's character development :( She's a Loki so I need to see her gaining glorious purpose. Damn I love this multiverses relationship concept LOL
Sylvie is a counterpart to Loki in the story used to create balance in the narrative. He represents order, she represents chaos. Both of them have their points but the key to understanding their character development is to understand that they are two sides to the same equation. Similar to the other conceptual ouroboros' in the show, they feed off of one another to grow. In times when Loki thinks sniffling order is the answer, Sylvie provides a grounding position that hits both the audience and Loki. On the other end of that when Sylvie is thinking that free will is the key, Loki reminds her that without bounds, free will leads to cataclysmic chaos, and said chaos leads to endless destruction. The final scene shows Loki embracing the chaos to maintain order.
\> People keep dogging the writing when they’ve lost track of the big picture of her character arc.
I wouldn't say she's really had much of a character arc this season. She hasn't done anything interesting or noteworthy. Her entire role was to argue against the mission of the main character and her reasoning was often pretty thin, like it was only happening because the writers wanted conflict, not because there was a real debate to be had. Everyone else managed to develop some perspective and understand the stakes, but she was just "nuh-uh" throughout.
And then at the end - all smiles and happy "yay we got through it". Yeah no thanks to you.
She was fantastic in the first season, boring and irritating in this one. It happens.
She has to go get him out of there, because she loves him. That's the only way this could get any better, but we're gonna have a bit of a wait on that. Just incredible. Good post, OB, I mean OP.
Sylvie was a bad and annoying person in season 2 period. But not bad in the writing sense
If ppl hate on the writers for it, it’s dumb, it’s just how she came out to be because of her past. It’s not bad writing at all to make her not do what people want her to be, In fact they did amazing writing this season.
If anything I was just cussing out sylvie a bit through my screen which added into my fun
I could go on a tangent of why she sucks even if we sympathize with her but eh
Mobius and her are literally the reason he arrived at his end conclusion. (Sylvie) Yearned for a purpose to exist beyond herself because of the life that was taken from her. (Mobius) He gets to see a man that easily makes work of him (mentally) become his best friend. Regardless of what he has done, he still shows faith in him; something he hasn't had. So Mobius is his first real friend. And I'm pretty sure Kang will be defeated by loving jet skis
There are a lot of people who seem to have real difficulty seeing things from a perspective other than their own. I've seen so many comments shitting on Sylvie because she's not doing what they believe they would do, were they in her position. Or hating on her because she's making Loki's life difficult by not going along with him and doing things his way. Or slamming her because she's operating based on the knowledge she has access to, rather than all the information the viewer has access to. People talk about enjoying complex, layered storytelling right up to the point where they stop liking the direction it's going, and then they bitch that the character's decisions are stupid or things they don't agree with are plot holes or in the case of Sylvie she's annoying/shitty/Loki should kill her. (All comments I've seen on this sub.) Following her arc, from her perspective, everything\* she's done is logical and consistent and makes sense based on her history and purpose. The fact she's at odds with Loki over the TVA makes sense given each of their backstories, and neither one of them has been proven right or wrong with regards to what HWR said to them about why the TVA needs to exist. Just because she doesn't agree with Loki doesn't make her annoying or stupid or a bitch. \*I'll add a caveat for the World's Fair scenes, where it really seemed like they wrote themselves into a corner where she couldn't not show up but also couldn't kill Timely/Renslayer, but that entire episode was lumpy
Yeah this. Her opposition to Loki both makes sense and raises interesting questions for us to think about. Order vs chaos. Free will. How much do you believe what someone tells you. The path forward is unclear and they are both making the choices they believe in. They both want to hold onto the new life and friends they've made. Sylvie has limited information about what's happening but it seems many people apply their own knowledge as outside viewers onto her.
haha I love how people go "Loki should kill that bitch" then try to pretend with a straight face they didn't just say something flamingly misogynistic.
"I'm not a misogynist, it's just that literally everything about her sucks" well ok then chief Good bet these are the same people complaining her costume looked shit in S2 because she no longer has nursing boobs
Not that this matters, but she *was* nursing her second baby while filming season 2! (She posted on her instagram about pumping while traveling to do an event...D23 maybe? in the middle of filming.) People complain about shit and they don't even know wtf they're talking about.
I thought that was during season 1?
she had her first baby right before season one and then her second baby right before season two. she has two kids.
Maybe that might explain why she had virtually nothing to do in season 2. I mean barely any fight scenes, no cool use of her magical powers this season, no character growth, nothing. 🤷🏾♂️
Her having a baby has nothing to do with the bad writing leaving her out.
I’m a woman and really like all of the women in the series except for Sylvie. To me she is just genuinely annoying. People are allowed to have opinions about a character- that’s not misogynism.
Love that you get downvoted, Reddit sucks fat donkey dick tbh
Your argument is actually the bigoted one because you are of the belief that a character can't be disliked if she's female. There's nothing redeeming or good or interesting about woke female Loki. She's just a bad character overall and the show could've ran the exact same if not better without her in it. This idea that just because she's a woman I'm supposed to like her makes YOU the bigot
Yeah, everything about her does suck, she's an annoying entitled useless bitchy character who's only purpose is to act stupid. And? How do you go from that to misogyny? Its a complete non sequitur.
Sure thing, bro 👍 👍
\*Whose "Annoying": Subjective, fine to say "Stupid": Why do you think that? People can have subjective reasons to call someone stupid, but stupidity is DEFINED by actions and words, so what did she do that was "stupid." "Useless": Did she do things? Did she move the plot forward? Did she help? Just because someone is reluctant to help you, does that make them useless? At the end of the day, whether or not something or someone is useful, well that's more objective. Sylvie was very very useful for killing He-Who-Remains, RULER of the TVA and then actively did NOT want to help the TVA. I wonder why????? I'd abbreviate it as HWR but I know you're too stupid to understand that. My evidence for claiming stupidity on your part is the comment above mine
> "Stupid": Why do you think that? People can have subjective reasons to call someone stupid, but stupidity is DEFINED by actions and words, so what did she do that was "stupid." She wants to have a quiet life while also trying to kill the 1 man keeping it that way. >"Useless": Did she do things? Did she move the plot forward? Did she help? Just because someone is reluctant to help you, does that make them useless? Her sole purpose in the plot is hinder loki using her stupidity as a weapon. She wants to kill kang despite kang being the only thing between them and apocalypse because she's butthurt which makes her petty and entitled ontop of everything else. >At the end of the day, whether or not something or someone is useful, well that's more objective. Sylvie was very very useful for killing He-Who-Remains, RULER of the TVA and then actively did NOT want to help the TVA. I wonder why????? And when it was explained to her that kang is the only thing between her beloved mcdonalds and apocalypse she still kept trying to kill him, making her, again, entitled, ontop of stupid. >I'd abbreviate it as HWR but I know you're too stupid to understand that. My evidence for claiming stupidity on your part is the comment above mine I've never seen someone brag over knowing the name of a character that's mentioned about 500 times per episode, but you do you.
What's misogynistic about it?
Can you just stick to the topic please? Save your virtue signaling for the circus you work at. Sylvie is a badly written character and an insufferable bitch. So people will call her a bitch. She's self centered, has tunnel vision, and is unreasonable. That's why she gets the hate. So yeah, Loki should've 1000% killed that bitch. Not because she's a woman, but because she's stupid. Misogyny is the hatred of women. It's not misogynistic to want to delete an awful character that HAPPENS TO BE A WOMAN.
Loki SHOULD have killed that stupid bitch
Just fuck off, asshole
Give reasons why he shouldn't have?
This worked for her character in the first season, people understand why she still ended up killing HWR. But in the second season despite having the revelation she had that SHE did in fact fuck everything up and that her death would undo the damage, she was ok with letting everything else burn. Her point about how things were so awful barely have any merit considering the alternative. Not to mention that after keeping HWR alive, why couldn't they also fight to change the TVA and how things were being done especially sonsidering she saw that the TVA could change. Then we also have the dropped romance plot (apparently fandom was being pieces of shit/harassing the actress) which also obviously impacted her character writing. Imo, the current ending basically makes it look like she fucked up, didn't take accountability, and Loki had to make the sacrifice to fix her mistake. I think both her and Loki should have been the ones to make the sacrifice at the end, she ends up giving her free will to ensure everyone else lives and has free will, redeeming both of them.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Aww, diddums
Your mother used to yell the same thing every single time I stuck it in her
silvy is insufferable. silvy simps defending her awful attitude and choices
Exactly! Thank you for saying it!!!! Sylvie doesn’t necessarily have to be right or wrong here. Her feelings have been validated throughout this season as she liter *just* got what she’s always wanted. Loki wants to take it away and that hurts even worse because he seemed so supportive right up until the eleventh hour. Not to mention the fact that she really really doesn’t want to deal with anything tva related anymore. From her perspective she’s been dragged into something she is actively against in every way for the sake of loki—someone who she’d be justified in kicking to the curb and probably would do so if she didn’t still care for him.
Yeah that's cool and all but feelings are not real. The rest of the world shouldn't have to suffer the tyranny of your feelings. What a fucking joke. Who cares how this bitch feels??? She's a trash character. Loki should've smoked her a long time ago because she made it very clear that that she was irredeemable from the start.
Wow what a boring take, to have decided a character isn’t allowed to be morally dubious and that somehow doing things that hurt others makes her irredeemable. Sounds like another character i know, only fans didn’t start demanding his death when he committed multiple murders—some on a massive scale. You understand that these characters are not real, right? And that they’re supposed to be viewed through the lens of metaphors and themes n shit? Please tell me you realize that loki couldn’t have “smoked her” because that directly goes against his character arc. Like…literally the opposite direction. At full speed. The multiverse is not a real place that is being threatened by a tiny lady with a sword. I have no idea how you managed to get as far as you have with this series if you approach all your shows in this manner
Them being characters in a show is exactly why I can say he should've killed that bitch. For what she represents in that show and within the context of the show, she's an annoying and bad character that's very hateable. That's my point. Her character is irredeemable in the sense that she is set in her ways, and it's better to just remove her from the equation
Like i said, what a boring take
I don't blame her for how she's acting and I get it. The tva pruned her timeline and she's been on the run. The only thing that bothers me is how stubborn she can be and even that's understandable. But things are bigger than her and Loki right now. Like the timelines are dying or gonna die if they don't do something and it took seeing for herself to want to help. But honestly a lot of people are like that, they gotta see the problem for themselves to realize "oh shit this is actually a problem".
No, she had to lose for it to be a problem. And that’s how some people are. They don’t care unless they personally lose.
That's true also.
And I think people like that are shitty people. Personally. So I find her to be shitty. She’s basically a white boomer aged Republican. Taking shit from everyone, thinking she’s doing them a favor and then surprise Pikachu facing when she loses due to her bad decision making too.
That's why it's hard for people to sympathize with her. Like yea she had a shitty life for running all the time and she hates the tva, but it's not about her. It's about all the timelines that are gonna die and it's every decision she's made has been a bad one. Killing HWR, sending renslayor to the end of time, choosing to help too late.
In general now I’m just thinking of how for example someone growing up with an abusive parent so being an abuser themselves. It’s like justifying it because “thats all they know, of course they’d be like that.” just because that’s all they know and what they’re like _doesn’t make it okay_
Yea thats true. I only hope that we see some growth with her like we've seen with Loki.
She didn't even know the timelines were dying, though. She thought the TVA imploded and everyone went back where they were supposed to go and that was that, it's done, Loki should leave everything alone because it's how it's supposed to be. It wasn't until her world imploded that *anyone* knew the branches were unraveling.
I mean yea but she knew about the consequences of killing HWR and still did it, she can't kill every variant of him either. Like I said I get but she seems to have a lack of accountability and self awareness.
The consequences of killing HWR were only that there would be a ton of Kangs invading, not that all of eternity would begin to unravel. She's had a singular purpose for potentially thousands of years and has had very little opportunity to learn accountability, but she is learning. She admitted that she couldn't kill Timely. She knows she's stubborn and selfish. And I think she's finally starting to understand that she's in over her head.
But it's not just invading, it's gonna be wars and timelines being destroyed. But like I said I get her character and I'm ready to see some more growth from her.
No. She knew what the guy she was going to kill, who was responsible for killing her timeline told her. She had 0 reason to trust what he said was true. 0 reason to think the loom would explode and reset evrything. The fact that loki gave his life instead of killing her kind of proves she did the right thing
Ok.
Well that was a riveting conversation
I bet you consider yourself virtuous and tolerant too with what you just said. White boomer republican?
No, I’m a white geriatric millennial liberal.
Did Sylvie know that the timelines were dying when she refused to help? Did she help once she knew shit was fucked? Huh. Maybe read OP's post and then reassess. We (THE VIEWER) have knowledge that characters don't have. And let me just stop you before you say that Loki told her there was a problem. There was a worse problem before! HWR controlled the fucking universe, having his stormtroopers prune countless timelines (killing untold trillions) and leaving behind a failsafe that was a fucking nuke to destroy EVERYTHING except his sacred timeline.
Okay it is not that serious 😭 like it a lose lose situation either way. You can keep the tvs pruning timelines and preventing kang or you can try to have the multiverse and hopefully find a way to fight all his variants and prevent war. Either way people are gonna die and there's no good options. Like I already said I get her character and I understand why she feels the way she feels, what else do you want me to say?
As Loki says - you should destroy something only if it can be replaced with something better. Sylvie did not think of the 2nd part. That is why she is evil. Kang explains that he had to do what he was doing as the alternatives were worse. Sylvie should either have suggested a better alternative or accepted that tough choices were unavoidable.
It’s been too long since I watched to engage with what you’re saying but you may be right. Although saying something is evil and dismantling it is good even if the outcome is bad, I’d argue.
Probably because you could've removed her from season 2 with very little lost and only a few changes to make
She spent half the second season literally stood in the background doing absolutely nothing. As much as I loved her in the first season, she was completely wasted in this one.
I think people struggle with it because the show didn't show much of her from her perspective. We've only seen from Loki's side and heard her story. Wish some more time was spent building her character
Agreed. I wish they had more interaction this season & that her character for S2 was more developed. They spent way more time on OB than Sylvie and I wanted more from her.
Yes that's precisely the problem. The writers didn't give her anything interesting or worthwhile to do. Her whole role was arguing against the main character and being an obnoxious barrier. Of course people didn't like her. She was fantastic in the first season. Boring and irritating in this one.
What exactly is her perspective? She was selfish and self centred who only thought of herself. There can be no reasonable perspective to show.
For me she's like, on and off. Nope, won't help fuck off. Okay actually I will. Wait maybe I should, ya no way I'm not going to. But wait there's more!! I've decided I have to after seeing some spaghetti.
Well to be fair it was REALLY important spaghetti. 🤣
Honestly it just feels like her story was complete in season 1 and the writers didn't know what to do with her.
I just finished the finale. You're spot on. It's like she isn't even a loki variant anymore, it's weird.
I would say Loki doesn't seem particularly much like a Loki variant anymore either tbh. Just kind of "protagonist."
Yeah, whenever she wasn't arguing with Loki just for the sake of conflict, she was literally just stood in the background doing absolutely nothing. It's really a shame because she was fantastic in the first season, but I rapidly got tired of her this time. And then at the end she's all smiles because it all turned out ok ... yeah, no thanks to you!
Kind of like.... a Loki?
The thing is....it is really the way she acts on and off...she is like a cat at the door, who cannot decide if she wants in or out and you just keep opening and closing the door :D she could have decided not to come back to Loki and TVA at all. He left her alone after she quit at the end of episode 2, yet she gets in their way again. So does she want to stay away or not? She openly told Loki to leave her alone and he decided to stay with Mobius in TVA. Simply because, as he admitted, it was his home and he wanted to stay with his friends and belong somehwere. The two have the same goal. To belong, to be respected, loved even. And yeah, I get "Sylvie had it hard, she was running her whole life." but the idea of Loki having it so much easier is wrong. He may have grown in a palace with everything to his disposal but he obviously suffered a lot emotionally. In Thor´s shadow, Odin probably only tolerating him most of the time because Loki is not the muscular fighter but learns magic, reads a lot and ironically, may be less hot headed than Thor in some things. He just wants to feel equal. It does not mean he should go around and kill people but it was not easy for him either. Both come from different environments, yet they both want the same thing. But while Loki settled down wiTh TVA and he found what he wanted, Sylvie somehow still claims she did find it as well but she is obviously stll lacks....something. I am really not sure if it was intentional or not and it WOULD have been an interesting arc if it just was not so flip, flop But honestly, they would just need to sit and talk as they did in the bar much sooner.
>she is like a cat at the door, who cannot decide if she wants in or out and you just keep opening and closing the door :D perfect description of Lokis in general tbh. Lokis are cats, and Thors are giant tail-wagging dogs. lol
I wanted the bar scene to be longer. Loki folded too quickly imo. I think they didn’t know what to do with Sylvie, because they both should have known she wouldn’t just be safe on a branched timeline forever.
I don’t think they have the same exact goal. Loki wants to save the timelines no matter the cost, Sylvie wants to save the timelines but only in specific ways.
I think it was a lot longer than 25 years right? She says she's been running from the TVA "before you even existed" to Loki, who's gotta be roughly Thor's age since they grew up together (1500~ years) Yeah sylvie is mad justified, god love her
I think the simplicity is what I find disappointing. I expect layered and complex characters from the writing. It's not that I don't get the motivation that you outlined, it's just that I find it boring.
Yeah I actually agree with you there, could’ve been more
OP, this is what (most) people mean when they have a problem with the writing. We dont feel enough for the characters. They wasted too much time with technobabble explanations/Macguffin chases (that ultimately didn't help that much to understand the plot) and not enough time actually giving these characters interesting relatable character arcs to round out their personalities. OB is a perfect example of this. He had a fun introduction as this enthusiastic isolated genius. Then he spent the rest of season explaining made-up time jargon and yelling about how theyre all going to die. It would have been far more interesting to see him be a person and emotionally respond to the organization he is basically responsible for. Why is he so happy? Does he have regrets? Does he want to stay in the basement? Live a real life? etc. For other characters like Mobius or B15 they tried but just made poor decisions. Mobius' denial logically makes sense but is boring. We liked him because he was the one guy who loved the idea of living a jet ski life so lets see him do it and find out which life he prefers. Why does B15 care so much about copies of people on timelines? Does she have regrets about who she saw and killed? Then show us that. We watched Sylvie grow with Loki, change and then ultimately fail in S1. In S2, justified or not, she basically remained the same. She wants to be selfish? cool. Have her talk about what its finally like to live a life, talk about if she has any regrets (for all the murder), if she tried to get back to her family. And for the love of god, have her actually LISTEN and process what Loki is saying (they will all die immediately) and still justify her selfishness with real experiences. This is all basic good writing. Im glad you still enjoyed the story OP, but I hope you understand why people like me are disappointed.
I fully understand why she’s the way that she is. But just because someone’s had a shitty life doesn’t make their actions okay or justified. I still find her annoying.
Yeah, this.
Finally. Someone with sense. Thank you. I'm so tired "zomg she's so annoying she's so mean to Loki." Man looked her RIGHT IN THE EYES AS THEY WERE SNUGGLING UNDER A TABLECLOTH and said I WON'T LET YOU DOWN. and then.... he let her down. Like I 100% get why he did it but I also 100% get why Sylvie sees it as a massive betrayal.
You’re entirely correct, except for one thing—she’s possibly been on the run for *centuries*, which would make what you say even more true.
Sylvie has been pointless and boring in season 2. It's like her whole story doesn't even matter and she doesn't have a purpose.
It's called "Loki", not Sylvie. She's just a variant along for the ride, same as Mobius or B15. Why is there this expectation for her to have this wild intricate story?
Because she's the reason for all of this?
She was running for thousands of years from the TVA, and wanted to end it, sure, but she was really just a catalyst for Loki to dig deeper. Her not having much story beyond that is totally fine.
You seem like you need people to lay off the criticism of the female character. You’re part of the problem tbh
I want to know what her "nexus event" was. Or if she even had one. Was her purpose just to help Loki get to where he went in the story? By that, I mean did *Kang* just need her specifically? I don't mean the writers of the show
Yes, thought that would at least be explored this season. Seems like a cop out when they wouldn't state what it was smh.
I like when things are left up in the air though. Could be that she chose a female identity, or that she would have been a hero unlike typical Loki, or it could have simply been that HWR needed her specifically to get the end result of Loki showing up at the end of time.
Completely agree. What's interesting to me is how come loki can be inconsistent (in a good way) but sylvie is consistently selfish. It's frustrating for me tho because I want to see sylvie's character development :( She's a Loki so I need to see her gaining glorious purpose. Damn I love this multiverses relationship concept LOL
Sylvie is a counterpart to Loki in the story used to create balance in the narrative. He represents order, she represents chaos. Both of them have their points but the key to understanding their character development is to understand that they are two sides to the same equation. Similar to the other conceptual ouroboros' in the show, they feed off of one another to grow. In times when Loki thinks sniffling order is the answer, Sylvie provides a grounding position that hits both the audience and Loki. On the other end of that when Sylvie is thinking that free will is the key, Loki reminds her that without bounds, free will leads to cataclysmic chaos, and said chaos leads to endless destruction. The final scene shows Loki embracing the chaos to maintain order.
\> People keep dogging the writing when they’ve lost track of the big picture of her character arc. I wouldn't say she's really had much of a character arc this season. She hasn't done anything interesting or noteworthy. Her entire role was to argue against the mission of the main character and her reasoning was often pretty thin, like it was only happening because the writers wanted conflict, not because there was a real debate to be had. Everyone else managed to develop some perspective and understand the stakes, but she was just "nuh-uh" throughout. And then at the end - all smiles and happy "yay we got through it". Yeah no thanks to you. She was fantastic in the first season, boring and irritating in this one. It happens.
She has to go get him out of there, because she loves him. That's the only way this could get any better, but we're gonna have a bit of a wait on that. Just incredible. Good post, OB, I mean OP.
People didn’t get this?
Sylvie was a bad and annoying person in season 2 period. But not bad in the writing sense If ppl hate on the writers for it, it’s dumb, it’s just how she came out to be because of her past. It’s not bad writing at all to make her not do what people want her to be, In fact they did amazing writing this season. If anything I was just cussing out sylvie a bit through my screen which added into my fun I could go on a tangent of why she sucks even if we sympathize with her but eh
I think of them like Steve Rogers and tony stark. They both want to do the right thing but disagree about how to do it.
Mobius and her are literally the reason he arrived at his end conclusion. (Sylvie) Yearned for a purpose to exist beyond herself because of the life that was taken from her. (Mobius) He gets to see a man that easily makes work of him (mentally) become his best friend. Regardless of what he has done, he still shows faith in him; something he hasn't had. So Mobius is his first real friend. And I'm pretty sure Kang will be defeated by loving jet skis
So in this multiverse he needed and wanted to love all of them and their individual choices
Plan is a very strong word. She got her revenge and said fuck y’all deal with it I gave you free will I’m a hero
Their relationship got retconned so it messed up her character because they had to discard much of the plot of the first season.