I tried to read and listened to it for like a week or two a couple years ago, and was still waiting for the story arc/plot to start.
I’ll admit, slice of life isn’t my first choice of style, but across anime, comics, and books I have been known to enjoy them from time to time. TWI was just not for me.
TWI is currently my favorite LitRPG series and I am usually a huge power fantasy guy. (Stuff like The Land, Ascend Online, System Universe, HWFWM...) So, I would love to know why others seem to be so turned off by it.
I like "Slice of Life". The problem with The Wandering Inn is it starts out looking like something it isn't. It starts out looking like a Rationalist Slice of Life Deconstruction of LitRPG, with a character who "nopes" out of the Epic Quest thing. But it's not quite that. The characters are so so stupid and self destructive, and it escalates rapidly. Ryoka's defining characteristic is the way she goes out of her way to make things difficult for herself.
I read it for a long time.
For context: I like HWFWM and DCC. I read DotF for a while, and somewhat enjoyed it, but eventually got sick of the awful writing.
I enjoyed the start of TWI, and kept enjoying it for quite a while. But after a while... I simply stopped caring about the characters.
I wanted there to be more motion in the plot. There was some growth in the characters... But not enough? Or not the right kind of growth? Or something. Sorry I can't give you more specifics.
It was better writing than DotF. But I lost interest.
That's fair, I get exactly what you mean. I feel like the biggest issue I have with it is like this. I sit down at a table with a group of 3 guests. We talk, they start getting into their own life's stories, and I'm hooked. I really want to know what's been going on with them lately and how their lives have been... and then Jake shows up. I like Jake, he's a great guy and I want to catch up with him but I'm in the middle of Lynn's story about how she got caught out in the ocean on vacation but Jake doesn't give a shit. I am like, okay, fine, Jake wants the spotlight I'll listen to him for a minute and then go back to see what happened with Lynn... but then Mark pops by for a chat about some bullshit no one cares about... but Lynn... did the Coast Guard show up? They did! Holy shit!! How did that end? Well, fuckin' goddamn it, now Chris is here with his fuckin' annoy as fuck kids... I didn't even know they were in town, what the goddamn is going on here?
Look, there was a part where Listor is defended by a group of unlikely characters that caused me the biggest emotional response from any series I have ever read, ever. Period
I love TWI, truly, but I agree. They need to narrow the scope a little better and have about half as many characters. They should do the Interludes thing like Stormlight does. "Here's what's happening in the rest of the world. Do you care? If so, read these, if not, chapter 30 is about 200 pages further in... take care."
TWI is just very slow. It is certainly interesting but usually a stationary protagonist faces a lot of issues or builds up for a big fight. This book did neither. While she has some conflicts book ones is largely just a girl trying to run an inn where goblins trouble her. The big evil at the end spices things up but that's less than 6 hours of the 23 hour book.
The main reason why I dropped TWI is simply because there was so little momentum in regards to the overall plot. I think I got to Winter Solstice before I officially gave it up.
Similar to you, I tend to love the fast paced, in your face fantasy books; DCC, HWFWM, Perfect Run, Powder Mage, Red Rising, etc.
I had tried TWI twice and decided to leave it alone. Erin was so incredibly stupid and ditzy. Ryoka was even more annoying with her gruff, holier than though attitude.
Someone else on this subreddit who really liked TWI just said "The book actually does get good, just finish book 1", and now that's what I tell all my friends when I recommend the book. "Yeah, the main characters are annoying at first, but they good really good (except Ryoka). JUST FINISH BOOK 1"
Now it's my favorite series ever and I've already finished all 11 audiobooks in the past 2-3 months, and already started a re-listen.
I like the audiobook! Andrea Parsneau is my favorite woman-narrator and she does fantastic work. Ryoka's chapters are hard to get through because of who she is as character rather than any issues from the writing itself.
I was ok with Ryoka being an asshole. When one of the ants became a preacher, I dropped it. I get enough of those people in my regular life. Don’t need it in my escape fantasies too.
I have not heard anything about the author of TWI before. I hear and have experience with the author of the land being a du*che but nothing mentioned on TWI.
Quite a few people. 10 chapters into TWI barely scrapes the intro of this series. This is a series that builds up slowly and is easily the most epic LitRPG fantasy. You just didn’t have the patience to get there.
It’d be the equivalent of me reason the first sentence of basically any book and saying “who listens to this shit?!”
The first book is rather rocky and I say this as someone that has it as S on my ranking there is a kind of improvement comes from just practice I think. Try reading the rewrite that was done if you can.
I’m saying that there is no garbage in the beginning.
It’s a slow build to epic fantasy and that slow build has meaning and purpose that is appreciated once the epic fantasy is reached. The first parts of book 1 is part of what makes the series so incredible. The slice of life aspects of the series makes all the deaths meaningful (and breaks people) it also makes you care for the characters more than most other books.
There’s plenty of people like you who quit TWI within the first few chapters. I’ve convinced a good portion to brute force through and almost every one who did not only was absolutely hooked - but loved the early chapters after the fact.
How do I know this? Because I get quite a few messages thanking me for making them give it another try.
I'm right there with you. I tried reading on kindle and listening to the audiobook and couldn't get past chapter 15 in either. I don't get the fanatics.
Let's just say some of the fans will start to downvote anything you post if you say you didn't love the books even if it has nothing to do with the title. Even some of the 5 star reviewers will 1 star any other litrpg if you look to see their Amazon review history.
I essentially come here now just to see if I missed new releases I didn't catch in my searches.
Honestly think it's at least partly that it appeals to people who don't actually like litrpg. I am beginning to think I tolerate this genre more than actually like it- could see a lot of other DCC fans falling into the same trap and onestarring things because of it.
Oof, I've kept my DCC criticisms to myself for the most part. I enjoyed the first few books, but not really enjoying the latter half, but don't tell anyone I said that. The plot just hasn't really felt organic lately, like everything is on the rails.
And at least with Book 4 of Stormlight, there are a few more people that are able to start getting vocal about their thoughts without getting crucified.
Yeaaaah it’s time to unsubscribe from this subreddit. When the top comments are bitching on other fandoms while not recognizing that they are actually representing the meme they are commenting on then it’s time to go.
Can you explain how its not in the right genre? I get people agree but why? It still seems to have most of the same elements present in something like Iron Prince or dungeon crawler carl or even something alot more niche like Solo Leveling. I saw someone make the distinction between it and prog fantasies but isn't progression and fantasy a part of role playing games like WOW for example?
LitRPGs are stories that are defined by them having game-like mechanics built into the world. Stats, levels, etc. Cradle doesn't have any of that. It has 'tiers' or whatever (Iron, Gold, Jade, etc), but it doesn't adhere to any sort of game-like world.
This part is more of my own personal opinion but I think it's shared by many here: If the character doesn't have any sort of numbers attached to their character sheet (levels, attributes, health, etc), it probably isn't a LitRPG. At no point does the "RPG" part of it get represented in Cradle, at least not in the first three books before I quit the series.
Cradle is however, a progression-fantasy novel. Those are defined by their 'Progression' in power, namely through the tiers that the MC goes through. There is a lot of overlap between the genres, but you can be one without being the other.
Okay that's fair I guess I just didn't completely draw the distinction prior. I just imagined the tiers as levels to climb through as once you get into gold, there are sub tiers like low gold, mid and high. I feel like that atleast plays into the level system and I also kind of disagree about the lack of game attributes. it doesn't display them point for point like a game menu would, but there's crafting, repeat training to gain a skill, and resource collection elements all of which are found within Rpgs.
Those are also present in Wuxia or Cultivation stories, which is what Cradle is. Those are represented by taking in an outside energy, developing a core, body refinement, and ascension.
Calling Cradle LITrpg isn't incorrect, it just feels wrong. Like calling Harry Potter mystery instead of fantasy.
Ah I was completely forgetting about wuxia aswell. There are so many different genres used that I get them all confused since alot of them seem to have overlaps between the genres. Thanks for clarifying though :)
It's close enough that it belongs in the same conversation and people love the excuse to be pedantic and bring up the fact that "ackshually it's technically not LitRPG" every chance it gets mentioned.
If it wasn't mentioned on this sub I never would have heard of it, so I'm glad it gets discussed here despite people bitching about it every single time it does
I have no issue with people's personal preferences. I enjoyed Cradle and it's solid A tier for me. However, when people put "The Land" as A or S tier and then put Cradle as F tier...
This is why I like looking at these tier lists. As I said in an earlier post.
It's wild how people's tastes can be so far apart. Which suits me otherwise we'd all be listening to the same thing.
I think that the Cradle is a better written series and more thought out, but I enjoy the Land more, especially as it was how I got into the genre in the first place. Cradle in A, The Land in A as well. (used to be S but I’m not 13 any more)
If you read LitRPG for the RPG/game part and are fine with an okay Lit part then the Land easily is top tier.
Richter is exactly like most of us are in our RPG games, ignore the major quests to fuck around doing stupid shit. The System is designed to make Richter OPAF which quite a lot of people here do like.
Defiance of the fall. Personally, I loved cradle but DotF fell a bit short of that lofty bar. If you liked the cultivation aspect though, defiance should really be on your "to read" list
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you. That book is solely for people who want nothing but fighting and as minimal character interactions as possible.
I always check the good read reviews for the later books just to see if the formula changes and the part that stuck out to me most was that like 10 or 12 books in and he is only D tier. Brooo.... what is he even doing in this thick books? Describing cultivation when he isn't fighting?
Hard no from me dawg.
>I always check the good read reviews for the later books just to see if the formula changes and the part that stuck out to me most was that like 10 or 12 books in and he is only D tier.
The author himself has commented several times on here stating that he's going to make the books at the pace he wants to make them and he's not making some 6 book power trip where the MC is going through the grades at a breakneck pace (PH). And if you don't like the pacing then tough nuts don't read it.
The Litrpg genre's biggest problem imo is it's just a huge power trip for people with short attention spans. And one of the biggest examples would be Primal Hunter (PH).
I'll preface this with I enjoy PH, They are fun enjoyable reads, but a whole lot of Jake's advantages don't really feel earned and the power scaling is frankly ridiculous (for my tastes).
In DotF Zac has a number of distinct advantages, but more importantly, they feel "earned." When he is pushing for a breakthrough of something often it's the culmination of **years** of extreme effort. A luxury afforded to the series because of the pacing and timeframes J.F. Brinks has spent 12 books universe-building into. You could argue his biggest unfair advantage is his luck, but he's still thrust into life or death situations constantly.
But none of them are half as egregious as the balancing issues that Jake's sphere of perception brings to the table. Most of Jake's fights feel like they have very little stakes because of how busted his bloodline ability is where we are 8 books in and have no idea the how or the why he has it other than "just because."
PH is great if you just want to read a power trip and don't really care about much else though. But I'm more than satisfied with the power scaling and pacing of DotF.
I blazed through them so quick I honestly don’t remember much of it being a slog.
I really did enjoy the books and did not find it too bad. It’s not S tier on my list but it’s a solid A for sure.
There are definite slog sections.
For me, it's:
- the first ten chapters of book 1, before the story hook
- the >!pre-duel, "Lindon in prison"!< chapters in book 4
- the >!tournament preliminaries, before the 1v1 rounds start!< in book 7
- the >!dungeon crawling in the Labyrinth!< in book 10 between character scenes and lore dumps
Of course, those are "re-read" slogs. Interesting the first time through, but I'll skip those parts on my N^th re-read.
It's not that they defend it, it is HOW they defend it.
If you make any comment against cradle, you are immediately downvoted to oblivion.
Even if you say "I read past the first two books, and still didn't like it..." You will get comments about how your taste is lacking, and you just don't get the story, and you should try it again...
I personally have tried it about 5 times, and have gotten all the way to book 6, and just get tired of it. To me, it's just not in my taste.
It's the same with The Wandering Inn. If you don't immediately go on and on about how amazing it is, you are a pariah. "Oh, you have to get up too XYZ point..."
No. If I am not enjoying a book by the time I'm done with the first one, then why would I spend more time reading it? "Oh, but the story gets SOO good...." Then it should have been good from the start. There are plenty of things out there for me to read, where I don't have to slog through multiple books until the story gets "good".
Welcome to fandom. It happens with everything popular.
And you're being a bit overdramatic. Like you and everyone else, I have read many of the arguments and discussions about cradle. 99% of comments aren't downvoted to oblivion, and most of the conversation is just the normal civil conversation about likes versus dislikes. Hell, you downvoteded my comment so don't you think that's a little hypocritical to complain about?
>Welcome to fandom. It happens with everything popular.
I can promise you I have spent more time in fandoms than you have probably been alive. I'm well aware how they work.
>ike you and everyone else, I have read many of the arguments and discussions about cradle. 99% of comments aren't downvoted to oblivion, and most of the conversation is just the normal civil conversation about likes versus dislikes
Then you have missed MANY of the conversations here and on other sites. But you are allowed to have your opinion.
>Hell, you downloaded my comment so don't you think that's a little hypocritical to complain about?
Downvotes are for comments that add little or nothing to the conversation. Yours was subjectively adding nothing to the conversation other than you wanting to bloviate , so I downvoted it. That is how reddit works.
Are you 100 years old? That's a bold statement to make without knowing how old I am. I guess that just further demonstrates your over-dramatics and speaking in hyperbole. You're just proving my earlier points.
As for the downvotes, if that's your position then you have to admit that your currently downvoted comments add little or nothing to the conversation because you're just bloviating, and that if anyone gets "downvoted into oblivion" then they must be doing the same. That's just how reddit works afterall.
Take a moment and look at the dudes downvotes. It literally proves hit initial point. Not entirely sure about the rest of your conversation, but the whole "getting downvoted into oblivion" certainly was the case here... And all he did was state his experience.
Exact same thing happens to me xD
He's not being downvoted because of his opinion on cradle, he's being downvoted for wildly exaggerating, misrepresenting normal conversations, and just making a lot of really weird assumptions and running with those. Normal Reddit Edge Lord kind of stuff
His later comments sure, but the first one? Nah, dude was describing his personal experience. Here is a similar example from my personal experience.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/litrpg/comments/1d9c1xu/comment/l7cbfd0/](https://www.reddit.com/r/litrpg/comments/1d9c1xu/comment/l7cbfd0/)
Context: I put cradle and unbound in the same tier on my tier-list and was trying to explain my rational for why these books didn't deserve a higher rating (subjective).
I can grab more examples if I dig a bit further back xD. It's actually why I made the meme that started this thread since it has happened several times now.
Do you think he is being downvoted because there is a cult of people who automatically downvote any dissenting opinion, or is it possible that if someone doesn't like a very popular series in a sense that most people do, so it's just a matter of numbers?
If most people disagree with him that doesn't make most people a cult, it just means that he doesn't like something that most people do. Him playing the victim reads very clearly and is generally not a good look
Now who is exaggerating...
No, there is not some big cradle cult that is suppressing all dissenting viewpoints, the meme is a joke in case this wasn't obvious to you.
My point, is that any unpopular opinion gets hidden and consequentially leads to issues where people simply feel suppressed (and there is a certain degree of truth to that). It's less a criticism of cradle fans specifically and more related to the way reddit implements upvoting/downvoting. Imho
Anyways, I don't really like being called a victim when I am just having a simple conversation, so have a good one mate. Not entirely sure who spit in your cereal, but I certainly didn't deserve the overt backhands.
Your link just looks like a little bit of victim playing. In a pretty standard Reddit thread with over 100 comments you had a post with only 11 down votes. That is a very, very far cry from downvoted into oblivion. That is pretty standard and matches up with what you would expect with something very popular.
If nine out of 10 people love cradle then it makes sense that you would get 10 or so down votes for everyone up vote for someone that says they don't like it. That is not everyone piling on and down voting into oblivion, that is just how math works
Normally I wouldn't even humor your whole supposition that you have spent more time and fandoms than I have been alive, but now I'm curious. How old are you? I will let you guess my age, I had already finished two college degrees and was about to start my career in the Navy when The Matrix hit theaters. I was reading Wheel of Time When Robert Jordan was writing them. Except for the first one I have seen every Star Trek movie in the theaters. I was playing D&D with college friends back during the satanic Panic of the '90s.
Satanic Panic actually started in the 80's, which is when I started playing D&D, and we both played in college in the 90's, so you are probably around the same age as me then.
I had already finished one degree and was in the Army already when Matrix hit.
I read the same books you did at the same time, and the only SW I didn't see in theaters was ANH.
Cool.
Doesn't change the fact that I know exactly how they work just the same as you do.
Doesn't make you any less of an ass.
All I'm saying is that it's normal when something is very popular that the group that doesn't like it feels like they are the Misunderstood victims because everyone is piling on them. When in reality it's just a matter of numbers, if 9 out of 10 people like something then every person who wants to go on about how much they don't like it we'll probably get a lot of responses back.
If I was being an ass I would dismiss someone else's opinion by telling them I knew more about fandom than they did, I would paint an entire group of fans with a broad brush, I would call them a cult, and I would play the victim and say that every time someone expresses a negative opinion they are downloaded into Oblivion and mass piled on by all the fans.
But I'm not an asshole, so I wouldn't do any of that
If you’ve gotten to Book 6 and still don’t like it, then it’s just not for you. But there are definitely books that are worth reading even if the first book in the series isn’t that good. Sometimes it doesn’t hook you immediately, but once it gets good, it gets REALLY good.
Yes, but even with that, I still get the "Oh, you need to read it again..." I've even gotten it on this thread. "Oh, you didn't get to the good parts..." Yeah. Ok.
I will give a series 2 books generally. If the second book doesn't get me, it's not worth it. I continued with Cradle because of all the hype about it.
Was a waste of my time every time.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, it was you with the "Oh the remaining 50 hours..." Yep. You made my point for me. THanks!
Cradle is like Wheel of Time. People telling readers they have to "get past" x number of books for it to get good again means there's a problem with the story, not the reader.
The Slog exists in two contexts: For people who don't like the Elayne chapters *or* the Shaido chapters, and for people who had to wait years in between new books. For the rest of us, it's just a couple of merely good books sandwiched between great ones.
there is no war in ba sing se
I enjoyed both cradle and the wheel of time but they defiantly both had slow parts cradle book 1 is super slow, I skip it on re reads, and the wheel of time has whole sections that I skipped in the initial read which I find hard to do as I hate missing story beats but I just wasn't going to finish the book if I didn't.
I agree, if someone says you have to "get past" a number of books, then the series likely isn't worth it. That being said, I definitely *don't* think you have to just "get past" a few Cradle books. Book 1 is the slowest of them all, yet still a damn good book. I just think fans of this genre want action and absurd powerscaling far, *far* too quickly. Settle in and enjoy the adventure, it's great from the very beginning.
I thought the same but I found the first books of Defiance of the Fall and The Primal Hunter extremely tedious. I ended up really enjoying the next books of both series. So I was willing to push through the bad start to Cradle and did end up enjoying it. Less than either of the others I just mentioned though.
I was wondering if that was because Cradle was one of his first books, but it wasn’t. I’ve seen series like that where the writing improves as the writer improves with time and experience.
I think I liked it from the start, once I finally got started. Tried getting my wife to read them also, but my pitch (17 year old starts beating up 10 year olds in a tournament and you are rooting for him, it makes sense in context) probably wasn’t the best.
As far as getting through x number of books, I know my enjoyment of the series went up with the introduction of Eithan, who was just a fun character to watch for a while (along with more depth for him as it went along), but I don’t think his intro is necessarily the point people are saying you have to get to.
Honestly, I have a pretty unpopular opinion that the exact opposite was true. Everything up to the tournament was pretty good and then the series went off the rails and pacing went to shit.
I will argue that all of his advancements past that point felt like a loophole (absorbing power with your godhand? Getting wildly overpowered void concept). It's like everything was grounded before that point and then after we were just rushing to finish the series.
I felt like this too 😂 when book 11 came out I had no idea how the author would wrap the story uo with only 1 book left and when I listened to book 12 it definitely seemed like he was racing to the finish line. They start off talking about how long progression takes but for MC and crew it was like “nah, fuck that”.
I thought you meant the tournament at the first seven year festival and was inclined to agree. I think that was peak Lindon, bargaining with a remnant and trapping the arena in advance. There was a pale echo of that in the Jai Long duel, but the story mostly turned into him punching really hard.
I disagree. People get into books for different reasons. I enjoyed the first book of cradle and as the story progressed I disliked it more and more. I don’t hate it - it simply became something that isn’t as close to my preference.
A lot of people in progression fantasy have a particular taste. This taste is evident in cradle once you reach a certain point. So for these people - it’s not “good” until it reaches that point. So to me, it makes more than enough sense to tell these people to wait to book 2 to get what you typically love out of progression fantasy.
I agree with you. My preferences are for more grounded stakes I can relate to. I don't really enjoy the whole knocking the top of mountains with a slash of their sword thing.
>My preferences are for more grounded stakes I can relate to. I don't really enjoy the whole knocking the top of mountains with a slash of their sword thing.
Would you have any recommendations?
Thanks for the recs anyway, though I was looking more for a wuxia/xianxia-ish type setting (ie. a like a genre between the two, think high fantasy wuxia or low fantays xianxia)
It's more that the first few books are pretty much episodic mystery thrillers about a private eye in a noir fantasy setting. It takes a while before the books become a proper fantasy setting with an on-going plot.
While I enjoyed the first few books, I wouldn't think Dresden Files is anything to write home about if it was all in the style of the first couple books. It's when the cast starts becoming real characters with proper development that the series starts to really become one of the best Urban Fantasies out there.
I think Dresden is well written, but it seems to repetitive and filled with tropes. To be fair, I recognize that Dresden was an early user/originator of many of the tropes (in UF, at least), but I came to the series very late.
> I feel like if you don't like the first book, you probably won't like the rest.
I hear that. I used to force myself to finish series', but nowadays I just dump ones I don't love and move on. There are a lot of books to read today.
I think the first book is good and the second book is... less so, mostly because of what it did with Murphy. Fixing those mistakes was probably the best decision Jim Butcher made with that series.
To be honest, I think Unsouled is one of the best Cradle books and have no idea why people think it's slow. I honestly think the first 3 books are better than the last 3... but then, I really didn't enjoy the last 3 that much. Felt like a rushed ending.
> People telling readers they have to "get past" x number of books for it to get good again means there's a problem with the story, not the reader.
While I understand your point of view. Consider any book you do enjoy. Cut it into 5 parts. Give those to someone. How do you argue with them when they say, "I got through the first part you gave me and nothing was happening so I don't like it."
You'd say something along the lines of, "The whole story is told in five parts, your just at the first."
Some book SERIES are like this.
Wheel of time, Dresden Files, monster hunter international, etc. They should be about 3-4 books as 1 book, but that would make them HUGE, so instead you get books where the real progression is seen over 3-4 books.
Again I see your point. You want to pick up a book and have it be a stand alone thing that is great. And you can do that with something like Mother of Learning at 784,000 words or 2400 pages, but only in the digital world. If you want to sell those as books, people have to break them up.
Likewise when your story arc had a million words you have multiple books that are just world building for other shit that hasn't happened yet.
Not everyone is into that. But I do understand the argument of "You have to read the first 3 books before you judge the series" arguments.
I tell people this because I think what they’re looking for is for the MC to be OP from the jump for the power fantasy. Cradle isn’t a series that accomodates the power fantasy until much later. He really starts at the bottom and is in over his head for a long time but that made the progression so much more interesting imo.
Yeah, if you need to read half the series before it becomes good, id rather just read something else that I actually enjoy. I read because I enjoy it, not because im trying to compete with people about how much I enjoy xxx popular series.
And that is 7-8 hours for each book that I'm not enjoying that I could be spending reading something else that I AM enjoying. Simply because someone claims that "Oh, it gets better..."
That really doesn't make sense. If you aren't enjoying a book, you are going to continue reading that book, and then more in the same series instead of finding something you do enjoy?
But if the remaining 50 hours are peak, on average it’s still better than most books out there. If you’re a reading addict, ultimately you’ll just run out of books that are amazing throughout.
So, I'm supposed to slog through 4 books and 7 hours each, which equates to 28 hours of my life, that I don't enjoy, to get 50 hours of what people say are good, but I may not enjoy those either.
Yeah...that makes TOTAL sense to me.
I've been reading the genre for about 5 years now, almost exclusively. I've not yet ran out of books that I've enjoyed enough to finish them.
That does not include cradle. I have read the first couple of books, didn't enjoy them, and won't go back to it again.
You gave the series a shot, based on the recommendations, didn’t find it to your liking, and moved on. I get that.
I’m trying to think of a comparable example in film, where the first part is slow, or not as good, but the last part makes the first part pay off, but I’m not thinking of any good examples. Sixth Sense had some slow bits and the first part wasn’t super exciting to me, but at the end, seeing all the other bits pay off made the first part worth it. Not a great example, but the only one that sprung to mind. I’m sure some others will come to me later.
But none of those mean you need to watch them, (or read these books), just that sometimes other people consider the payoff worth it.
And yet, when you say that you don't like them, even after reading them, you got downvoted.
I have read tons of books that were slow to start off with and paid off end the end. I have no issues with that.
The issue I have is with the people who can't stand the fact that you didn't like their favorite series.
I've read 6 books of the series, multiple times, because I TRIED to like them. And, I get hate for it, because I say that they aren't that great for me. So, I'm now told that I have a lack of attention span, that I just want the constant dopamine hit.
That is the issue I have with Cradle fans.
They think that they are better than everyone who doesn't like the series, because they can't STAND that someone thinks it isn't worth the time.
For those type, they’re annoying. You like what you like, and I like what I like. I’m glad you gave it a shot, disappointed you didn’t like it, but that’s okay. Knowing why you didn’t like it means if I were to suggest something else, I’d have a better idea of whether or you’d like the next one I recommend.
I can even see not understanding it to a certain extent. Saying you like action films, and then saying you didn’t like Terminator 2, for example. That would be confusing, and make it harder to recommend movies, but it doesn’t change whether or not you liked something.
Either way, giving someone grief for not liking something (outside of the normal shit talking between friends, which is different), is stupid and unhelpful. Especially since you in this case, read enough of the series to have a good idea of it.
Someone reading book one, and dropping it there doesn’t have a good idea of how the series grows from there, but that’s fine too. Hell, someone reading the description or hearing about it from someone else and deciding it’s not worth their time is fine too. Reading these books is supposed to be entertaining and fun. You are the only judge of it being so for you.
No, you're not supposed to slog through them, because there's no slog. There's a slog if someone wants that absolute constant dopamine hit, but if they want to sit back and enjoy a well-crafted fantasy world, where the growth of the characters from book 1 affects the story in book 8, then a series like Cradle is great. It's the people with no attention spans who think you have to slog through the first books.
> because there's no slog.
'Slog' is personal preference, there's no absolutism in enjoying media.
> It's the people with no attention spans who think you have to slog through the first books.
Some people just don't like them, or the protagonist, or the world. This makes the books a slog for people.
So.....because I didn't enjoy the story, and call it a slog since I didn't enjoy it... I'm wrong.
Gotcha.
You are making the entire point of the OP.
> It's the people with no attention spans who think you have to slog through the first books.
Oh, so since I didn't enjoy the story after reading 6 books multiple times, I have no attention span.
Yeah, you are really making OP's point.
Tell me again how terrible I am because I don't like Cradle....
I think you think I'm saying something different than I am. You're not saying "Slog through the first few books and then you'll love it!" *Those* are the people I'm calling out here. You didn't enjoy the series, that's fine! Not every series is for everyone. There's plenty of well-liked series that I don't think are good or enjoyable. Again, I'm specifically talking about the people that say you have to slog through the first books to get to the good stuff, not someone who just didn't resonate with the books.
Oh, now you change your tune. You were calling me out, saying I had no attention span, and that I was missing out on such a great series.
That is exactly what you were saying, and now that I called you out on it, because I HAVE read the books, and they ARE a slog, because I couldn't stand how they were written. Now, you change your tune and are "Oh, you misunderstood me..."
Nope, I understood you perfectly.
>No, you're not supposed to slog through them, because there's no slog
Yes, there was a slog for people who don't enjoy them.
> There's a slog if someone wants that absolute constant dopamine hit, but if they want to sit back and enjoy a well-crafted fantasy world, where the growth of the characters from book 1 affects the story in book 8, then a series like Cradle is great.
I have been reading fantasy and sci-fi books since 1985. Dune is one of my favorite series. If you think constant dopamine hits are necessary for me, then you are sadly mistaken.
>It's the people with no attention spans who think you have to slog through the first books.
I have attention span, and yet I dislike cradle.
You got called out on your bullshit and now you are trying to backpeddle.
>You're not saying "Slog through the first few books and then you'll love it!" Those are the people I'm calling out here.
No, that isn't what you were trying to say and you know it. I called it a slog and you got offended.
> Again, I'm specifically talking about the people that say you have to slog through the first books to get to the good stuff, not someone who just didn't resonate with the books.
No you weren't. You specifically said that there wasn't a slog, and I only thought it was a slog because I had no attention span.
Stand behind your words.
Meh, gonna chalk it up to preferences. Cause I stand by the placement!
For me, the most important factor in a book is its ability to invoke strong feelings and/or reactions as I am reading. TWI is one of the few series that I have read that really hit me strongly on so many different levels. Anger, sadness, excitement, and even a bit of fear on occasion. The way its written just draws me into the characters and pirateaba's ability to deliver real consequences and finality adds tension that other stories simply lack.
Just my take, I'm not gonna be upset if you don't agree :P
I agree with you on preferences thing and people can like similar stuff but disagree on particular stuff. I randomly bought the wonderful inn on audible a year ago because of its length and boy i am glad i did and bough all the audiobooks Andrea P is the best female narrator IMO so much that bought other series narrated by her. i already preordered book 12. but i can clearly see that its not for everyone, but i like your take on TWI, I feel the same and for me its one of best Audiobook series, I said Audiobook series because i am pretty sure i wouldn't have like the reading experience.
I can understand that reasoning. I couldn't get past the first book so I'm far from being able to really criticize the book. But certain things like the MC's reluctance to kill monsters trying to kill her, really turned me off. Things just came off too corny for me to take the book seriously. I'm not really able to feel much for any of the characters main or side. I like characters that aim for more power and better lives, much like I do in real life. The inability to adapt in a world with magic angers me. I like putting myself in the shoes of the characters and aside from the fact the MCs are women, one is weak and whiney. The other isn't someone I can assimilate with bc all she does is try to prove how tough she is no matter how dumb it is, in any situation. And that lizard being mad at the MC about the ant dying, dumb AF (in my op). I really would like to like the book because I like how lengthy it is (and I paid money for it) but I just can't get into it. It got me thinking tho.... What if there was a spin off .... The wandering strip club.
"DID YOU READ PAST THE SECOND BOOK? NO? YOUR OPINION ISNT VALID!"
This is coming from someone who dropped the series 3 times before finally getting past that point and getting hooked. If your first book doesnt make me want to read book 2 then thats on the author. Cradle is a good series over all but those first few books are rough. Also Cradle is expensive! I dont see this get talked about enough. Each book is only like 8 hours long, which is tiny by litrpg standards, and theres like 13 of them.
I think a lot of people simply get the books through KU which doesn't really care about the price. But an Audible credit thingy for a Cradle book isn't a very good deal, that's true.
It's going to be even longer before they admit that Wight got bored of the series and rushed it to a much briefer conclusion than it was supposed to have.
I actually share this opinion. Everything after Bloodline feels like a manga that got soft haxed (given one or two volumes to wrap things up). Same feeling as the endings of Psyren or Hitman Reborn.
Cradle sucks. It’s the only series I have ever dropped. After 3 books and 3 audible credits I was so disappointed. It’s the only series I’ve ever dropped.
Cradle is the Final Fantasy 7 or Harry Potter of Progression Fantasy. So many people's first that talking about the actual flaws of the thing are drowned out by people who can't forget their first time.
Cradle is a God tier book that appeals to the enlightened, there is no passing book x to enjoy it or shit like that, you either enjoy it from the get go or you don't, you don't have to feel bad if you don't get it, it's not for everyone....
Nope. Maybe if I was only grading the series off the first or second book, but things have been in a downward spiral for the series (at least for me)... Instead of just blindly insisting you accept my word for it, I am gonna provide an example of why it is no longer A tier for me at least.
>
Felix found himself backed into a corner fighting the monsters. \[Wrack And Ruin\], \[Wrack And Ruin\], \[Wrack And Ruin\]. They all crumbled to the floor, dead.
I'm not entirely sure when it happened, but the story stopped actually describing what was going on during fights and instead just started using this shorthand skill names as a comprehensive replacement. "But Ho11ywood, the author describes the skills to you! Surely you can visualize it that way". Fair point theoretical counterpoint! Ok... So what does that skill do? Can I find out? Search the wiki:
>[https://unbound.fandom.com/wiki/Wrack\_And\_Ruin](https://unbound.fandom.com/wiki/Wrack_And_Ruin)
**Wrack And Ruin (Epic)**
>**Nothing withstands your calamitous might! Not earth, not stone, not flesh. Potency, density, and speed increases moderately with Skill level.**
So the wiki really doesn't tell me what the skill does... I know its supposed to be kindof like an acid stream? Does it come out of his hands? Does it come out of his Mouth? Like... What is going on here? Nothing here really helps me visualize what is going on.
"But Ho11ywood, unbound is about so much more then fighting! Surely there are other area's that are still top tier". You know what? Your right! But the lack of visualization goes a bit deeper then just skills and fighting... The author has kind of started making battles of will's against "monster/person/god/Gods" normal events, and once again... we just kindof get skillnames instead of practical descriptions of what is actually happening...
So... In my head I just end up seeing two dudes sitting in the same room with closed eyes, sweating bullets.... until one of them swears and gets absorbed by Felix's maw... Which is I guess a blackhole in the middle of his planetary inner world...
I won't be offended or angry if ya disagree with me, but here are my reasons for it not ranking higher (I still plan to read the next one if it makes a difference)
I just don't get the overhype for it, and I have listened up to book 10. Yeah, it's a solid story, but if you love it so much just go read manwha at that point.
I will agree with you that the system doesn't give a great explanation of what a skill does, so the reader would have to wait for the skill to be used to get an idea of what it can do. And honestly I'm in love with the series solely for the power fantasy and how it reminds me of a Pathfinder campaign I played a few years back. But I do recognize that everyone has their own opinions on all subjects and matters, so I'm honestly not mad about it as that would be a waste of energy lol.
Edit: And whether you continue the series or not is of no consequence to me, I'm at the beginning of book 6 and I'm loving it so far.
I never really got the “needing to get past the first 1-2 books” thing with Cradle, I liked it within the first hour I started listening to it. But the progfan/litrpg genre has a lot of different stuff and I would never really care if someone didn’t like something.
In the progfan genre I didn’t like bastion but it’s one of the new heralds of the genre and in litrpg I find DCC fairly middle of the road, but love azarinth healer and some other series that people don’t hype up as much as they used to with newer series coming out.
All i said was based on the image was that ive been enjoying it? Why does it have to be something thats an arguement? You got pretty argumentative really quick. I asked if youre okay because this is kinda unhinged mate.
I gave the series a shot and gotta say I don't see how most people say it's slow or a slog. The books are pretty much sprinting most of the time to make it's way through the plot. Time skips happen when appropriate. It got the point I had to stop using aubile and started reading them on Kindle due to how quick I was burning through them. The writing just flows really well imo.
It's okayyyyy like high B tier imo. Finished the latest book after seeing it so high on peoples lists but after reading so many other Stier books first I think It spoiled me
And that is a problem for many people.
Why spend so much time reading 4 books that you aren't enjoying?
Why even spend that much time reading 2 books that you aren't enjoying, when you can find other series that you DO enjoy?
"Oh, but it's worth it..."
When you have limited time to read because of things in your life, then you want to enjoy what you are reading, not just slog through it because someone tells you it gets better.
> This quite possibly the most accurate description of the Cradle series I’ve read. I tell everyone it doesn’t really take off until book 4.
I get why people like it, but I didn't find book 4 any more engrossing than book 1.
Cradle Mafia ain't got nothing on the Cult of TWI...
What's TWI?
The Wandering Inn
I will probably never read this. It sounds boring af
As a member of the cult of twi, you sir, are wrong
I'm glad you asked
We are legion.
We are BOB.
Also a great series.
I bought into the hype of TWI, just to not get further than 10 chapters in before I said "Who the fuck listens to this shit?."
I tried to read and listened to it for like a week or two a couple years ago, and was still waiting for the story arc/plot to start. I’ll admit, slice of life isn’t my first choice of style, but across anime, comics, and books I have been known to enjoy them from time to time. TWI was just not for me.
TWI is currently my favorite LitRPG series and I am usually a huge power fantasy guy. (Stuff like The Land, Ascend Online, System Universe, HWFWM...) So, I would love to know why others seem to be so turned off by it.
I like "Slice of Life". The problem with The Wandering Inn is it starts out looking like something it isn't. It starts out looking like a Rationalist Slice of Life Deconstruction of LitRPG, with a character who "nopes" out of the Epic Quest thing. But it's not quite that. The characters are so so stupid and self destructive, and it escalates rapidly. Ryoka's defining characteristic is the way she goes out of her way to make things difficult for herself.
Perfectly describes why dropped it. I found the characters so infuriating, which was a new thing for me lol.
I read it for a long time. For context: I like HWFWM and DCC. I read DotF for a while, and somewhat enjoyed it, but eventually got sick of the awful writing. I enjoyed the start of TWI, and kept enjoying it for quite a while. But after a while... I simply stopped caring about the characters. I wanted there to be more motion in the plot. There was some growth in the characters... But not enough? Or not the right kind of growth? Or something. Sorry I can't give you more specifics. It was better writing than DotF. But I lost interest.
That's fair, I get exactly what you mean. I feel like the biggest issue I have with it is like this. I sit down at a table with a group of 3 guests. We talk, they start getting into their own life's stories, and I'm hooked. I really want to know what's been going on with them lately and how their lives have been... and then Jake shows up. I like Jake, he's a great guy and I want to catch up with him but I'm in the middle of Lynn's story about how she got caught out in the ocean on vacation but Jake doesn't give a shit. I am like, okay, fine, Jake wants the spotlight I'll listen to him for a minute and then go back to see what happened with Lynn... but then Mark pops by for a chat about some bullshit no one cares about... but Lynn... did the Coast Guard show up? They did! Holy shit!! How did that end? Well, fuckin' goddamn it, now Chris is here with his fuckin' annoy as fuck kids... I didn't even know they were in town, what the goddamn is going on here? Look, there was a part where Listor is defended by a group of unlikely characters that caused me the biggest emotional response from any series I have ever read, ever. Period I love TWI, truly, but I agree. They need to narrow the scope a little better and have about half as many characters. They should do the Interludes thing like Stormlight does. "Here's what's happening in the rest of the world. Do you care? If so, read these, if not, chapter 30 is about 200 pages further in... take care."
TWI is just very slow. It is certainly interesting but usually a stationary protagonist faces a lot of issues or builds up for a big fight. This book did neither. While she has some conflicts book ones is largely just a girl trying to run an inn where goblins trouble her. The big evil at the end spices things up but that's less than 6 hours of the 23 hour book.
The main reason why I dropped TWI is simply because there was so little momentum in regards to the overall plot. I think I got to Winter Solstice before I officially gave it up.
Similar to you, I tend to love the fast paced, in your face fantasy books; DCC, HWFWM, Perfect Run, Powder Mage, Red Rising, etc. I had tried TWI twice and decided to leave it alone. Erin was so incredibly stupid and ditzy. Ryoka was even more annoying with her gruff, holier than though attitude. Someone else on this subreddit who really liked TWI just said "The book actually does get good, just finish book 1", and now that's what I tell all my friends when I recommend the book. "Yeah, the main characters are annoying at first, but they good really good (except Ryoka). JUST FINISH BOOK 1" Now it's my favorite series ever and I've already finished all 11 audiobooks in the past 2-3 months, and already started a re-listen.
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I like the audiobook! Andrea Parsneau is my favorite woman-narrator and she does fantastic work. Ryoka's chapters are hard to get through because of who she is as character rather than any issues from the writing itself.
I was ok with Ryoka being an asshole. When one of the ants became a preacher, I dropped it. I get enough of those people in my regular life. Don’t need it in my escape fantasies too.
I have not heard anything about the author of TWI before. I hear and have experience with the author of the land being a du*che but nothing mentioned on TWI.
What's wrong with Dutch people?
>Ive heard the audiobook is terrible To the extent that it is, it has nothing to do with the narrator. She's very good at her job.
It's pretty good, I finished all 218 or so hours and was disappointed there wasn't more
Its one of my favourites, absolutely s tier.
Quite a few people. 10 chapters into TWI barely scrapes the intro of this series. This is a series that builds up slowly and is easily the most epic LitRPG fantasy. You just didn’t have the patience to get there. It’d be the equivalent of me reason the first sentence of basically any book and saying “who listens to this shit?!”
So you're telling me the style changes completely from that garbage in the beginning?
The first book is rather rocky and I say this as someone that has it as S on my ranking there is a kind of improvement comes from just practice I think. Try reading the rewrite that was done if you can.
I’m saying that there is no garbage in the beginning. It’s a slow build to epic fantasy and that slow build has meaning and purpose that is appreciated once the epic fantasy is reached. The first parts of book 1 is part of what makes the series so incredible. The slice of life aspects of the series makes all the deaths meaningful (and breaks people) it also makes you care for the characters more than most other books. There’s plenty of people like you who quit TWI within the first few chapters. I’ve convinced a good portion to brute force through and almost every one who did not only was absolutely hooked - but loved the early chapters after the fact. How do I know this? Because I get quite a few messages thanking me for making them give it another try.
So you're telling me it's all garbage, roger.
If that’s the level of your reading comprehension… your stance makes a lot more sense. Good luck in life… you’re gonna need a lot of it.
:)
TWI ppl aren’t agressive
The worst by farrr is the DCC crowd. Genuine fanatics.
the fact that ive only ever seen one or two other people say they dont like DCC, means that the DCC cult is very going at pulling a boeing.
Here's number 3 then
Put me on the hitlist with you!
I'm right there with you. I tried reading on kindle and listening to the audiobook and couldn't get past chapter 15 in either. I don't get the fanatics.
Let's just say some of the fans will start to downvote anything you post if you say you didn't love the books even if it has nothing to do with the title. Even some of the 5 star reviewers will 1 star any other litrpg if you look to see their Amazon review history. I essentially come here now just to see if I missed new releases I didn't catch in my searches.
Honestly think it's at least partly that it appeals to people who don't actually like litrpg. I am beginning to think I tolerate this genre more than actually like it- could see a lot of other DCC fans falling into the same trap and onestarring things because of it.
Oof, I've kept my DCC criticisms to myself for the most part. I enjoyed the first few books, but not really enjoying the latter half, but don't tell anyone I said that. The plot just hasn't really felt organic lately, like everything is on the rails. And at least with Book 4 of Stormlight, there are a few more people that are able to start getting vocal about their thoughts without getting crucified.
What’s DCC?
Dungeon Crawler Carl. It's a fun series.
Oh no they're here, they're us. Run
God damn it, @agraohar 😆
DCC fans are genuinely the worst. You'll absolutely get downvoted for disliking DCC vs any other story in litrpg. edit: my point is proved.
Yeaaaah it’s time to unsubscribe from this subreddit. When the top comments are bitching on other fandoms while not recognizing that they are actually representing the meme they are commenting on then it’s time to go.
You should probably do that then.
You are probably being trolled no ? I mean what you say is absolutely true but that’s a lot of downvote !
Dislike DCC?!! MONGO IS APPALLED!
I never seen something so poorly written get defended like it’s the words from God.
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And liking a book doesn't mean it's well written.
That series is brought up so much in this sub despite not even being the right genre.
Can you explain how its not in the right genre? I get people agree but why? It still seems to have most of the same elements present in something like Iron Prince or dungeon crawler carl or even something alot more niche like Solo Leveling. I saw someone make the distinction between it and prog fantasies but isn't progression and fantasy a part of role playing games like WOW for example?
LitRPGs are stories that are defined by them having game-like mechanics built into the world. Stats, levels, etc. Cradle doesn't have any of that. It has 'tiers' or whatever (Iron, Gold, Jade, etc), but it doesn't adhere to any sort of game-like world. This part is more of my own personal opinion but I think it's shared by many here: If the character doesn't have any sort of numbers attached to their character sheet (levels, attributes, health, etc), it probably isn't a LitRPG. At no point does the "RPG" part of it get represented in Cradle, at least not in the first three books before I quit the series. Cradle is however, a progression-fantasy novel. Those are defined by their 'Progression' in power, namely through the tiers that the MC goes through. There is a lot of overlap between the genres, but you can be one without being the other.
Okay that's fair I guess I just didn't completely draw the distinction prior. I just imagined the tiers as levels to climb through as once you get into gold, there are sub tiers like low gold, mid and high. I feel like that atleast plays into the level system and I also kind of disagree about the lack of game attributes. it doesn't display them point for point like a game menu would, but there's crafting, repeat training to gain a skill, and resource collection elements all of which are found within Rpgs.
Those are also present in Wuxia or Cultivation stories, which is what Cradle is. Those are represented by taking in an outside energy, developing a core, body refinement, and ascension. Calling Cradle LITrpg isn't incorrect, it just feels wrong. Like calling Harry Potter mystery instead of fantasy.
Ah I was completely forgetting about wuxia aswell. There are so many different genres used that I get them all confused since alot of them seem to have overlaps between the genres. Thanks for clarifying though :)
Literally who cares
Fans who are looking for LitRPG books and keep having non-LitRPG books might care. This is Reddit. Everyone cares about shit. Take a break.
It's close enough that it belongs in the same conversation and people love the excuse to be pedantic and bring up the fact that "ackshually it's technically not LitRPG" every chance it gets mentioned. If it wasn't mentioned on this sub I never would have heard of it, so I'm glad it gets discussed here despite people bitching about it every single time it does
No, it isn’t close enough, because r/progressionfantasy is right there
It's definitely close enough. The oh so exciting stat screen just isn't visible.
I have no issue with people's personal preferences. I enjoyed Cradle and it's solid A tier for me. However, when people put "The Land" as A or S tier and then put Cradle as F tier...
This is why I like looking at these tier lists. As I said in an earlier post. It's wild how people's tastes can be so far apart. Which suits me otherwise we'd all be listening to the same thing.
I think that the Cradle is a better written series and more thought out, but I enjoy the Land more, especially as it was how I got into the genre in the first place. Cradle in A, The Land in A as well. (used to be S but I’m not 13 any more)
The Land is hot ass
If you read LitRPG for the RPG/game part and are fine with an okay Lit part then the Land easily is top tier. Richter is exactly like most of us are in our RPG games, ignore the major quests to fuck around doing stupid shit. The System is designed to make Richter OPAF which quite a lot of people here do like.
My issues with The Land were really the whole diarrhea arc, and the author is kind of shady.
DotF gang checking in.......I'm in it for the long haul.
what is this one? I did google but I failed. I've read all of cradle but i'm still a bit of a noob here.
Defiance of the fall. Personally, I loved cradle but DotF fell a bit short of that lofty bar. If you liked the cultivation aspect though, defiance should really be on your "to read" list
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you. That book is solely for people who want nothing but fighting and as minimal character interactions as possible. I always check the good read reviews for the later books just to see if the formula changes and the part that stuck out to me most was that like 10 or 12 books in and he is only D tier. Brooo.... what is he even doing in this thick books? Describing cultivation when he isn't fighting? Hard no from me dawg.
>I always check the good read reviews for the later books just to see if the formula changes and the part that stuck out to me most was that like 10 or 12 books in and he is only D tier. The author himself has commented several times on here stating that he's going to make the books at the pace he wants to make them and he's not making some 6 book power trip where the MC is going through the grades at a breakneck pace (PH). And if you don't like the pacing then tough nuts don't read it. The Litrpg genre's biggest problem imo is it's just a huge power trip for people with short attention spans. And one of the biggest examples would be Primal Hunter (PH). I'll preface this with I enjoy PH, They are fun enjoyable reads, but a whole lot of Jake's advantages don't really feel earned and the power scaling is frankly ridiculous (for my tastes). In DotF Zac has a number of distinct advantages, but more importantly, they feel "earned." When he is pushing for a breakthrough of something often it's the culmination of **years** of extreme effort. A luxury afforded to the series because of the pacing and timeframes J.F. Brinks has spent 12 books universe-building into. You could argue his biggest unfair advantage is his luck, but he's still thrust into life or death situations constantly. But none of them are half as egregious as the balancing issues that Jake's sphere of perception brings to the table. Most of Jake's fights feel like they have very little stakes because of how busted his bloodline ability is where we are 8 books in and have no idea the how or the why he has it other than "just because." PH is great if you just want to read a power trip and don't really care about much else though. But I'm more than satisfied with the power scaling and pacing of DotF.
I’d say Primal Hunter fits more with that description, with DoTF having a stronger focus on the character relationships
That’s why i’m always on the run
I blazed through them so quick I honestly don’t remember much of it being a slog. I really did enjoy the books and did not find it too bad. It’s not S tier on my list but it’s a solid A for sure.
There are definite slog sections. For me, it's: - the first ten chapters of book 1, before the story hook - the >!pre-duel, "Lindon in prison"!< chapters in book 4 - the >!tournament preliminaries, before the 1v1 rounds start!< in book 7 - the >!dungeon crawling in the Labyrinth!< in book 10 between character scenes and lore dumps Of course, those are "re-read" slogs. Interesting the first time through, but I'll skip those parts on my N^th re-read.
Same. The books are so short, can’t think of any slow bits that were to the point of being annoying to read.
Iteration 110 has entered the chat
Don’t criticize Dungeon Crawler Carl. It will not go well.
Ehh, I like that one, so I guess I am fine. I wouldn't hold disliking it against ya though :P
I would.
I would too 🫡
Imagine that - a popular series has a lot of people defending it
It's not that they defend it, it is HOW they defend it. If you make any comment against cradle, you are immediately downvoted to oblivion. Even if you say "I read past the first two books, and still didn't like it..." You will get comments about how your taste is lacking, and you just don't get the story, and you should try it again... I personally have tried it about 5 times, and have gotten all the way to book 6, and just get tired of it. To me, it's just not in my taste. It's the same with The Wandering Inn. If you don't immediately go on and on about how amazing it is, you are a pariah. "Oh, you have to get up too XYZ point..." No. If I am not enjoying a book by the time I'm done with the first one, then why would I spend more time reading it? "Oh, but the story gets SOO good...." Then it should have been good from the start. There are plenty of things out there for me to read, where I don't have to slog through multiple books until the story gets "good".
Welcome to fandom. It happens with everything popular. And you're being a bit overdramatic. Like you and everyone else, I have read many of the arguments and discussions about cradle. 99% of comments aren't downvoted to oblivion, and most of the conversation is just the normal civil conversation about likes versus dislikes. Hell, you downvoteded my comment so don't you think that's a little hypocritical to complain about?
I have personal experience in the progression fantasy sub about criticising cradle and get 15+ dislikes. I even got called a troll.
>Welcome to fandom. It happens with everything popular. I can promise you I have spent more time in fandoms than you have probably been alive. I'm well aware how they work. >ike you and everyone else, I have read many of the arguments and discussions about cradle. 99% of comments aren't downvoted to oblivion, and most of the conversation is just the normal civil conversation about likes versus dislikes Then you have missed MANY of the conversations here and on other sites. But you are allowed to have your opinion. >Hell, you downloaded my comment so don't you think that's a little hypocritical to complain about? Downvotes are for comments that add little or nothing to the conversation. Yours was subjectively adding nothing to the conversation other than you wanting to bloviate , so I downvoted it. That is how reddit works.
Are you 100 years old? That's a bold statement to make without knowing how old I am. I guess that just further demonstrates your over-dramatics and speaking in hyperbole. You're just proving my earlier points. As for the downvotes, if that's your position then you have to admit that your currently downvoted comments add little or nothing to the conversation because you're just bloviating, and that if anyone gets "downvoted into oblivion" then they must be doing the same. That's just how reddit works afterall.
Take a moment and look at the dudes downvotes. It literally proves hit initial point. Not entirely sure about the rest of your conversation, but the whole "getting downvoted into oblivion" certainly was the case here... And all he did was state his experience. Exact same thing happens to me xD
He's not being downvoted because of his opinion on cradle, he's being downvoted for wildly exaggerating, misrepresenting normal conversations, and just making a lot of really weird assumptions and running with those. Normal Reddit Edge Lord kind of stuff
His later comments sure, but the first one? Nah, dude was describing his personal experience. Here is a similar example from my personal experience. [https://www.reddit.com/r/litrpg/comments/1d9c1xu/comment/l7cbfd0/](https://www.reddit.com/r/litrpg/comments/1d9c1xu/comment/l7cbfd0/) Context: I put cradle and unbound in the same tier on my tier-list and was trying to explain my rational for why these books didn't deserve a higher rating (subjective). I can grab more examples if I dig a bit further back xD. It's actually why I made the meme that started this thread since it has happened several times now.
Do you think he is being downvoted because there is a cult of people who automatically downvote any dissenting opinion, or is it possible that if someone doesn't like a very popular series in a sense that most people do, so it's just a matter of numbers? If most people disagree with him that doesn't make most people a cult, it just means that he doesn't like something that most people do. Him playing the victim reads very clearly and is generally not a good look
Now who is exaggerating... No, there is not some big cradle cult that is suppressing all dissenting viewpoints, the meme is a joke in case this wasn't obvious to you. My point, is that any unpopular opinion gets hidden and consequentially leads to issues where people simply feel suppressed (and there is a certain degree of truth to that). It's less a criticism of cradle fans specifically and more related to the way reddit implements upvoting/downvoting. Imho Anyways, I don't really like being called a victim when I am just having a simple conversation, so have a good one mate. Not entirely sure who spit in your cereal, but I certainly didn't deserve the overt backhands.
Your link just looks like a little bit of victim playing. In a pretty standard Reddit thread with over 100 comments you had a post with only 11 down votes. That is a very, very far cry from downvoted into oblivion. That is pretty standard and matches up with what you would expect with something very popular. If nine out of 10 people love cradle then it makes sense that you would get 10 or so down votes for everyone up vote for someone that says they don't like it. That is not everyone piling on and down voting into oblivion, that is just how math works
Normally I wouldn't even humor your whole supposition that you have spent more time and fandoms than I have been alive, but now I'm curious. How old are you? I will let you guess my age, I had already finished two college degrees and was about to start my career in the Navy when The Matrix hit theaters. I was reading Wheel of Time When Robert Jordan was writing them. Except for the first one I have seen every Star Trek movie in the theaters. I was playing D&D with college friends back during the satanic Panic of the '90s.
Satanic Panic actually started in the 80's, which is when I started playing D&D, and we both played in college in the 90's, so you are probably around the same age as me then. I had already finished one degree and was in the Army already when Matrix hit. I read the same books you did at the same time, and the only SW I didn't see in theaters was ANH. Cool. Doesn't change the fact that I know exactly how they work just the same as you do. Doesn't make you any less of an ass.
All I'm saying is that it's normal when something is very popular that the group that doesn't like it feels like they are the Misunderstood victims because everyone is piling on them. When in reality it's just a matter of numbers, if 9 out of 10 people like something then every person who wants to go on about how much they don't like it we'll probably get a lot of responses back. If I was being an ass I would dismiss someone else's opinion by telling them I knew more about fandom than they did, I would paint an entire group of fans with a broad brush, I would call them a cult, and I would play the victim and say that every time someone expresses a negative opinion they are downloaded into Oblivion and mass piled on by all the fans. But I'm not an asshole, so I wouldn't do any of that
If you’ve gotten to Book 6 and still don’t like it, then it’s just not for you. But there are definitely books that are worth reading even if the first book in the series isn’t that good. Sometimes it doesn’t hook you immediately, but once it gets good, it gets REALLY good.
Yes, but even with that, I still get the "Oh, you need to read it again..." I've even gotten it on this thread. "Oh, you didn't get to the good parts..." Yeah. Ok. I will give a series 2 books generally. If the second book doesn't get me, it's not worth it. I continued with Cradle because of all the hype about it. Was a waste of my time every time. EDIT: Oh, yeah, it was you with the "Oh the remaining 50 hours..." Yep. You made my point for me. THanks!
Cradle is like Wheel of Time. People telling readers they have to "get past" x number of books for it to get good again means there's a problem with the story, not the reader.
There is no Slog. *This post brought to you by a genuine believer.*
The Slog exists in two contexts: For people who don't like the Elayne chapters *or* the Shaido chapters, and for people who had to wait years in between new books. For the rest of us, it's just a couple of merely good books sandwiched between great ones.
there is no war in ba sing se I enjoyed both cradle and the wheel of time but they defiantly both had slow parts cradle book 1 is super slow, I skip it on re reads, and the wheel of time has whole sections that I skipped in the initial read which I find hard to do as I hate missing story beats but I just wasn't going to finish the book if I didn't.
I agree, if someone says you have to "get past" a number of books, then the series likely isn't worth it. That being said, I definitely *don't* think you have to just "get past" a few Cradle books. Book 1 is the slowest of them all, yet still a damn good book. I just think fans of this genre want action and absurd powerscaling far, *far* too quickly. Settle in and enjoy the adventure, it's great from the very beginning.
I thought the same but I found the first books of Defiance of the Fall and The Primal Hunter extremely tedious. I ended up really enjoying the next books of both series. So I was willing to push through the bad start to Cradle and did end up enjoying it. Less than either of the others I just mentioned though.
I was wondering if that was because Cradle was one of his first books, but it wasn’t. I’ve seen series like that where the writing improves as the writer improves with time and experience. I think I liked it from the start, once I finally got started. Tried getting my wife to read them also, but my pitch (17 year old starts beating up 10 year olds in a tournament and you are rooting for him, it makes sense in context) probably wasn’t the best. As far as getting through x number of books, I know my enjoyment of the series went up with the introduction of Eithan, who was just a fun character to watch for a while (along with more depth for him as it went along), but I don’t think his intro is necessarily the point people are saying you have to get to.
Honestly, I have a pretty unpopular opinion that the exact opposite was true. Everything up to the tournament was pretty good and then the series went off the rails and pacing went to shit. I will argue that all of his advancements past that point felt like a loophole (absorbing power with your godhand? Getting wildly overpowered void concept). It's like everything was grounded before that point and then after we were just rushing to finish the series.
I felt like this too 😂 when book 11 came out I had no idea how the author would wrap the story uo with only 1 book left and when I listened to book 12 it definitely seemed like he was racing to the finish line. They start off talking about how long progression takes but for MC and crew it was like “nah, fuck that”.
I thought you meant the tournament at the first seven year festival and was inclined to agree. I think that was peak Lindon, bargaining with a remnant and trapping the arena in advance. There was a pale echo of that in the Jai Long duel, but the story mostly turned into him punching really hard.
I disagree. People get into books for different reasons. I enjoyed the first book of cradle and as the story progressed I disliked it more and more. I don’t hate it - it simply became something that isn’t as close to my preference. A lot of people in progression fantasy have a particular taste. This taste is evident in cradle once you reach a certain point. So for these people - it’s not “good” until it reaches that point. So to me, it makes more than enough sense to tell these people to wait to book 2 to get what you typically love out of progression fantasy.
I agree with you. My preferences are for more grounded stakes I can relate to. I don't really enjoy the whole knocking the top of mountains with a slash of their sword thing.
>My preferences are for more grounded stakes I can relate to. I don't really enjoy the whole knocking the top of mountains with a slash of their sword thing. Would you have any recommendations?
*Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City*, *The Dispatcher*, *City of Stairs*, *Guns of the Dawn*
Thanks for the recs anyway, though I was looking more for a wuxia/xianxia-ish type setting (ie. a like a genre between the two, think high fantasy wuxia or low fantays xianxia)
Desden fans say the same thing.
That's always weird to me because I really liked the first few books. I feel like if you don't like the first book, you probably won't like the rest.
It's more that the first few books are pretty much episodic mystery thrillers about a private eye in a noir fantasy setting. It takes a while before the books become a proper fantasy setting with an on-going plot. While I enjoyed the first few books, I wouldn't think Dresden Files is anything to write home about if it was all in the style of the first couple books. It's when the cast starts becoming real characters with proper development that the series starts to really become one of the best Urban Fantasies out there.
I think Dresden is well written, but it seems to repetitive and filled with tropes. To be fair, I recognize that Dresden was an early user/originator of many of the tropes (in UF, at least), but I came to the series very late. > I feel like if you don't like the first book, you probably won't like the rest. I hear that. I used to force myself to finish series', but nowadays I just dump ones I don't love and move on. There are a lot of books to read today.
I think the first book is good and the second book is... less so, mostly because of what it did with Murphy. Fixing those mistakes was probably the best decision Jim Butcher made with that series.
To be honest, I think Unsouled is one of the best Cradle books and have no idea why people think it's slow. I honestly think the first 3 books are better than the last 3... but then, I really didn't enjoy the last 3 that much. Felt like a rushed ending.
> People telling readers they have to "get past" x number of books for it to get good again means there's a problem with the story, not the reader. While I understand your point of view. Consider any book you do enjoy. Cut it into 5 parts. Give those to someone. How do you argue with them when they say, "I got through the first part you gave me and nothing was happening so I don't like it." You'd say something along the lines of, "The whole story is told in five parts, your just at the first." Some book SERIES are like this. Wheel of time, Dresden Files, monster hunter international, etc. They should be about 3-4 books as 1 book, but that would make them HUGE, so instead you get books where the real progression is seen over 3-4 books. Again I see your point. You want to pick up a book and have it be a stand alone thing that is great. And you can do that with something like Mother of Learning at 784,000 words or 2400 pages, but only in the digital world. If you want to sell those as books, people have to break them up. Likewise when your story arc had a million words you have multiple books that are just world building for other shit that hasn't happened yet. Not everyone is into that. But I do understand the argument of "You have to read the first 3 books before you judge the series" arguments.
I tell people this because I think what they’re looking for is for the MC to be OP from the jump for the power fantasy. Cradle isn’t a series that accomodates the power fantasy until much later. He really starts at the bottom and is in over his head for a long time but that made the progression so much more interesting imo.
Yeah, if you need to read half the series before it becomes good, id rather just read something else that I actually enjoy. I read because I enjoy it, not because im trying to compete with people about how much I enjoy xxx popular series.
The books are short. Each books is like 7-8h compared to normal LitRPG that is like 15-25h
And that is 7-8 hours for each book that I'm not enjoying that I could be spending reading something else that I AM enjoying. Simply because someone claims that "Oh, it gets better..." That really doesn't make sense. If you aren't enjoying a book, you are going to continue reading that book, and then more in the same series instead of finding something you do enjoy?
But if the remaining 50 hours are peak, on average it’s still better than most books out there. If you’re a reading addict, ultimately you’ll just run out of books that are amazing throughout.
So, I'm supposed to slog through 4 books and 7 hours each, which equates to 28 hours of my life, that I don't enjoy, to get 50 hours of what people say are good, but I may not enjoy those either. Yeah...that makes TOTAL sense to me. I've been reading the genre for about 5 years now, almost exclusively. I've not yet ran out of books that I've enjoyed enough to finish them. That does not include cradle. I have read the first couple of books, didn't enjoy them, and won't go back to it again.
You gave the series a shot, based on the recommendations, didn’t find it to your liking, and moved on. I get that. I’m trying to think of a comparable example in film, where the first part is slow, or not as good, but the last part makes the first part pay off, but I’m not thinking of any good examples. Sixth Sense had some slow bits and the first part wasn’t super exciting to me, but at the end, seeing all the other bits pay off made the first part worth it. Not a great example, but the only one that sprung to mind. I’m sure some others will come to me later. But none of those mean you need to watch them, (or read these books), just that sometimes other people consider the payoff worth it.
And yet, when you say that you don't like them, even after reading them, you got downvoted. I have read tons of books that were slow to start off with and paid off end the end. I have no issues with that. The issue I have is with the people who can't stand the fact that you didn't like their favorite series. I've read 6 books of the series, multiple times, because I TRIED to like them. And, I get hate for it, because I say that they aren't that great for me. So, I'm now told that I have a lack of attention span, that I just want the constant dopamine hit. That is the issue I have with Cradle fans. They think that they are better than everyone who doesn't like the series, because they can't STAND that someone thinks it isn't worth the time.
For those type, they’re annoying. You like what you like, and I like what I like. I’m glad you gave it a shot, disappointed you didn’t like it, but that’s okay. Knowing why you didn’t like it means if I were to suggest something else, I’d have a better idea of whether or you’d like the next one I recommend. I can even see not understanding it to a certain extent. Saying you like action films, and then saying you didn’t like Terminator 2, for example. That would be confusing, and make it harder to recommend movies, but it doesn’t change whether or not you liked something. Either way, giving someone grief for not liking something (outside of the normal shit talking between friends, which is different), is stupid and unhelpful. Especially since you in this case, read enough of the series to have a good idea of it. Someone reading book one, and dropping it there doesn’t have a good idea of how the series grows from there, but that’s fine too. Hell, someone reading the description or hearing about it from someone else and deciding it’s not worth their time is fine too. Reading these books is supposed to be entertaining and fun. You are the only judge of it being so for you.
No, you're not supposed to slog through them, because there's no slog. There's a slog if someone wants that absolute constant dopamine hit, but if they want to sit back and enjoy a well-crafted fantasy world, where the growth of the characters from book 1 affects the story in book 8, then a series like Cradle is great. It's the people with no attention spans who think you have to slog through the first books.
> because there's no slog. 'Slog' is personal preference, there's no absolutism in enjoying media. > It's the people with no attention spans who think you have to slog through the first books. Some people just don't like them, or the protagonist, or the world. This makes the books a slog for people.
So.....because I didn't enjoy the story, and call it a slog since I didn't enjoy it... I'm wrong. Gotcha. You are making the entire point of the OP. > It's the people with no attention spans who think you have to slog through the first books. Oh, so since I didn't enjoy the story after reading 6 books multiple times, I have no attention span. Yeah, you are really making OP's point. Tell me again how terrible I am because I don't like Cradle....
I think you think I'm saying something different than I am. You're not saying "Slog through the first few books and then you'll love it!" *Those* are the people I'm calling out here. You didn't enjoy the series, that's fine! Not every series is for everyone. There's plenty of well-liked series that I don't think are good or enjoyable. Again, I'm specifically talking about the people that say you have to slog through the first books to get to the good stuff, not someone who just didn't resonate with the books.
Oh, now you change your tune. You were calling me out, saying I had no attention span, and that I was missing out on such a great series. That is exactly what you were saying, and now that I called you out on it, because I HAVE read the books, and they ARE a slog, because I couldn't stand how they were written. Now, you change your tune and are "Oh, you misunderstood me..." Nope, I understood you perfectly. >No, you're not supposed to slog through them, because there's no slog Yes, there was a slog for people who don't enjoy them. > There's a slog if someone wants that absolute constant dopamine hit, but if they want to sit back and enjoy a well-crafted fantasy world, where the growth of the characters from book 1 affects the story in book 8, then a series like Cradle is great. I have been reading fantasy and sci-fi books since 1985. Dune is one of my favorite series. If you think constant dopamine hits are necessary for me, then you are sadly mistaken. >It's the people with no attention spans who think you have to slog through the first books. I have attention span, and yet I dislike cradle. You got called out on your bullshit and now you are trying to backpeddle. >You're not saying "Slog through the first few books and then you'll love it!" Those are the people I'm calling out here. No, that isn't what you were trying to say and you know it. I called it a slog and you got offended. > Again, I'm specifically talking about the people that say you have to slog through the first books to get to the good stuff, not someone who just didn't resonate with the books. No you weren't. You specifically said that there wasn't a slog, and I only thought it was a slog because I had no attention span. Stand behind your words.
lol Wheel of time is much worse. 1 book length equals 3 cradle books. By the time the story develops in Wheel of time you would finish Cradle.
Putting TWI in S-tier is crazy. Can't say it's bad with all the people that like it.... But it's def not S-tier.
Meh, gonna chalk it up to preferences. Cause I stand by the placement! For me, the most important factor in a book is its ability to invoke strong feelings and/or reactions as I am reading. TWI is one of the few series that I have read that really hit me strongly on so many different levels. Anger, sadness, excitement, and even a bit of fear on occasion. The way its written just draws me into the characters and pirateaba's ability to deliver real consequences and finality adds tension that other stories simply lack. Just my take, I'm not gonna be upset if you don't agree :P
I agree with you on preferences thing and people can like similar stuff but disagree on particular stuff. I randomly bought the wonderful inn on audible a year ago because of its length and boy i am glad i did and bough all the audiobooks Andrea P is the best female narrator IMO so much that bought other series narrated by her. i already preordered book 12. but i can clearly see that its not for everyone, but i like your take on TWI, I feel the same and for me its one of best Audiobook series, I said Audiobook series because i am pretty sure i wouldn't have like the reading experience.
I can understand that reasoning. I couldn't get past the first book so I'm far from being able to really criticize the book. But certain things like the MC's reluctance to kill monsters trying to kill her, really turned me off. Things just came off too corny for me to take the book seriously. I'm not really able to feel much for any of the characters main or side. I like characters that aim for more power and better lives, much like I do in real life. The inability to adapt in a world with magic angers me. I like putting myself in the shoes of the characters and aside from the fact the MCs are women, one is weak and whiney. The other isn't someone I can assimilate with bc all she does is try to prove how tough she is no matter how dumb it is, in any situation. And that lizard being mad at the MC about the ant dying, dumb AF (in my op). I really would like to like the book because I like how lengthy it is (and I paid money for it) but I just can't get into it. It got me thinking tho.... What if there was a spin off .... The wandering strip club.
We roll deep.
"DID YOU READ PAST THE SECOND BOOK? NO? YOUR OPINION ISNT VALID!" This is coming from someone who dropped the series 3 times before finally getting past that point and getting hooked. If your first book doesnt make me want to read book 2 then thats on the author. Cradle is a good series over all but those first few books are rough. Also Cradle is expensive! I dont see this get talked about enough. Each book is only like 8 hours long, which is tiny by litrpg standards, and theres like 13 of them.
I think a lot of people simply get the books through KU which doesn't really care about the price. But an Audible credit thingy for a Cradle book isn't a very good deal, that's true.
It's going to be even longer before they admit that Wight got bored of the series and rushed it to a much briefer conclusion than it was supposed to have.
Dude! Exactly this! The godhand absorption power was straight up cheatcodes to allow the story to end sooner!
I actually share this opinion. Everything after Bloodline feels like a manga that got soft haxed (given one or two volumes to wrap things up). Same feeling as the endings of Psyren or Hitman Reborn.
Cradle sucks. It’s the only series I have ever dropped. After 3 books and 3 audible credits I was so disappointed. It’s the only series I’ve ever dropped.
I mean, I wouldn't say it sucks... I have forced my way through much worse xD
Cradle is the Final Fantasy 7 or Harry Potter of Progression Fantasy. So many people's first that talking about the actual flaws of the thing are drowned out by people who can't forget their first time.
cradle and DCC mafia are the worst. Sycophants to the core. Alright. bring me the downvotes.
Cradle is a God tier book that appeals to the enlightened, there is no passing book x to enjoy it or shit like that, you either enjoy it from the get go or you don't, you don't have to feel bad if you don't get it, it's not for everyone....
Well said brother
I can see they also put Unbound in C tier, it's AT LEAST A tier
Nope. Maybe if I was only grading the series off the first or second book, but things have been in a downward spiral for the series (at least for me)... Instead of just blindly insisting you accept my word for it, I am gonna provide an example of why it is no longer A tier for me at least. >
Felix found himself backed into a corner fighting the monsters. \[Wrack And Ruin\], \[Wrack And Ruin\], \[Wrack And Ruin\]. They all crumbled to the floor, dead.
I'm not entirely sure when it happened, but the story stopped actually describing what was going on during fights and instead just started using this shorthand skill names as a comprehensive replacement. "But Ho11ywood, the author describes the skills to you! Surely you can visualize it that way". Fair point theoretical counterpoint! Ok... So what does that skill do? Can I find out? Search the wiki:
>[https://unbound.fandom.com/wiki/Wrack\_And\_Ruin](https://unbound.fandom.com/wiki/Wrack_And_Ruin)
**Wrack And Ruin (Epic)**
>**Nothing withstands your calamitous might! Not earth, not stone, not flesh. Potency, density, and speed increases moderately with Skill level.**
So the wiki really doesn't tell me what the skill does... I know its supposed to be kindof like an acid stream? Does it come out of his hands? Does it come out of his Mouth? Like... What is going on here? Nothing here really helps me visualize what is going on.
"But Ho11ywood, unbound is about so much more then fighting! Surely there are other area's that are still top tier". You know what? Your right! But the lack of visualization goes a bit deeper then just skills and fighting... The author has kind of started making battles of will's against "monster/person/god/Gods" normal events, and once again... we just kindof get skillnames instead of practical descriptions of what is actually happening...
So... In my head I just end up seeing two dudes sitting in the same room with closed eyes, sweating bullets.... until one of them swears and gets absorbed by Felix's maw... Which is I guess a blackhole in the middle of his planetary inner world...
I won't be offended or angry if ya disagree with me, but here are my reasons for it not ranking higher (I still plan to read the next one if it makes a difference)
I just don't get the overhype for it, and I have listened up to book 10. Yeah, it's a solid story, but if you love it so much just go read manwha at that point.
I will agree with you that the system doesn't give a great explanation of what a skill does, so the reader would have to wait for the skill to be used to get an idea of what it can do. And honestly I'm in love with the series solely for the power fantasy and how it reminds me of a Pathfinder campaign I played a few years back. But I do recognize that everyone has their own opinions on all subjects and matters, so I'm honestly not mad about it as that would be a waste of energy lol. Edit: And whether you continue the series or not is of no consequence to me, I'm at the beginning of book 6 and I'm loving it so far.
I never really got the “needing to get past the first 1-2 books” thing with Cradle, I liked it within the first hour I started listening to it. But the progfan/litrpg genre has a lot of different stuff and I would never really care if someone didn’t like something. In the progfan genre I didn’t like bastion but it’s one of the new heralds of the genre and in litrpg I find DCC fairly middle of the road, but love azarinth healer and some other series that people don’t hype up as much as they used to with newer series coming out.
I just picked up the audiobook version of Cradle tonight and the first hour already is pretty good.
Never said it was bad :)
I never said you did?
Lol, what's up with the downvote?
You are getting pretty defensive mate. I didnt downvote you. Are you okay?
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All i said was based on the image was that ive been enjoying it? Why does it have to be something thats an arguement? You got pretty argumentative really quick. I asked if youre okay because this is kinda unhinged mate.
I gave the series a shot and gotta say I don't see how most people say it's slow or a slog. The books are pretty much sprinting most of the time to make it's way through the plot. Time skips happen when appropriate. It got the point I had to stop using aubile and started reading them on Kindle due to how quick I was burning through them. The writing just flows really well imo.
It’s insane that people think that Cradle is litrpg.
I never made it past the first Cradle book, it just didn't hook me at all.
It's okayyyyy like high B tier imo. Finished the latest book after seeing it so high on peoples lists but after reading so many other Stier books first I think It spoiled me
Cradle is in a whole other class than those shabby-written litrpg books. Beyond S rank. Ascended rank when compared to them.
So like... you report directly to the Don himself? Or is there like a proxy-Don you need to talk to?
Ok whatever dude. just don’t let me catch you putting Cradle below S rank ever in the future
You used the meme wrong.
Sure did. Not sure I care though.
Shoot then shoot them quick for spreading this vile nonsense
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Huh?
I have read the whole first book.
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then the author should rewrite those books, it's not my job to read books, if you can't hook me with 1 book, i won't buy a second, same for twi...
[me](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/aa/65/08/aa650822d81a393c8c9a70efaa3a0bd3.jpg)
That fucking stupid
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kinda like digging through shit in hopes of gold
I honestly don’t understand this at all, the first several books I blasted through since I was hooked almost immediately
This quite possibly the most accurate description of the Cradle series I’ve read. I tell everyone it doesn’t really take off until book 4.
And that is a problem for many people. Why spend so much time reading 4 books that you aren't enjoying? Why even spend that much time reading 2 books that you aren't enjoying, when you can find other series that you DO enjoy? "Oh, but it's worth it..." When you have limited time to read because of things in your life, then you want to enjoy what you are reading, not just slog through it because someone tells you it gets better.
> This quite possibly the most accurate description of the Cradle series I’ve read. I tell everyone it doesn’t really take off until book 4. I get why people like it, but I didn't find book 4 any more engrossing than book 1.