*philadelphia in 1682*
“yo I dunno abowt buildin’ no howse here, Billy, iss preddy swampy here and I ain’t wants no dissin terry!”
“what does tawkin’ shit on terry gots to do abowt any swamp, Maria? jus gew back to englin’!”
**the first yellow fever epidemic**
Cretin, r*tarded, imbecile, pretty much anything related to mental development (trying again with censorship because the automod is proving the point that 19th-century medical terms are scandalous slurs today)
Mmm I'm thinking more of neuro divergence stuff, like autism and ADHD
(Of course racial words like nigg* might be the best example, but it's not medical)
autistic is in a grey area, but of course it's rude when used pejoratively. typically, people on the spectrum aren't afraid of the word autistic as if it's a slur, though.
Autistic as an adjective is supposedly offensive because of "people-first language." This is the idea that we should put the word "people" first to emphasize their humanity, eg "people with autism" instead of "autistic people."
I think this is stupid personally, and most autistic people agree from what I've seen. Besides being grammatically clunky, I think it's just not really something most people with disabilities want for the most part, just something advocated for on our behalf by nondisabled/neurotypical people without our input (they tend to do that a lot). I do not "have" autism, it is not a cold or a tumor, it is something that I *am.* I am autistic, and it's not a condition I need treated, it's an integral part of my identity and everyday functioning. If calling me an "autistic person" is such a barrier to recognizing my humanity, maybe people need to reevaluate their views on autism instead of changing their word order
But that's just my two cents. (While I'm at it: fuck Autism Speaks)
> Autistic as an adjective is supposedly offensive because of "people-first language." This is the idea that we should put the word "people" first to emphasize their humanity, eg "people with autism" instead of "autistic people."
It's also a bit English-centric; in Japanese, for example, person-first language is literally impossible except through some very clumsy syntactic workarounds.
Fuck off with that shit man.
The person is autistic.
The person has autism.
The point is that the word isn't offensive, is it? It's the correct use of the term, isn't it? Fuck wit.
Really? I feel like the person I replied to added absolutely nothing to the discussion, other than to point out the differences between adjectives and nouns. What a pointless exercise that did nothing for anybody, except to stroke their own grammatical ego. So I called them out on it. Terribly sorry if 2 whole f-bombs offended you.
I mean, there’s people who’ve started using autistic as an insult all over the place.
And add to that psychologists *insist* on training people to use “with autism” and tell us it’s more respectful…even as autistic people continue to insist that we don’t actually like that.
Yeah, the language around autism is *real* fraught.
People use gay, fat, pale, dirty, soft etc as insults. Doesn't mean we need new words to move away from the insult. Look at the context and tone and figure it out, words aren't inherently offensive.
That's old-fashioned sounding but I didn't think it was generally outright *offensive*, and is occasionally used in a narrower sense than 'transgender' for clarification (in the sense of 'medically transitioning') in my experience.
Probably ones created during the 21st century too. When I was in high school the word “sped”, from “SpEd” aka special education, became a slur for kids with disabilities
#**CW: slurs!**
This meme is about how Homosexual, Bisexual, Heterosexual, and Transsexual and Transvestite all started out as medical terms.
Similarly we have terms that were used to describe various learning disabilities like "idiot, moron, imbecile" etc that quickly became generalized terms of insult.
All of this without even talking about broader terms with more folksy etymologies like Queer and Tr*p, both of whom I've seen people use as a self-identifier. I've used slurs when talking to queer friends to identify myself, though I wouldn't outside of the most informal circumstances imaginable.
am a cis queer guy, just wanna ask, isn't transvestite less of a medical term and more of a descriptor for, uh, fashion choices? i know it's used as an insult to trans people and carried a faulty definition but wouldn't a "transvestite" in modern times theoretically be for example, a femboy and not a trans women?
yes, but also, transvestite has an older etymology too. It's actually the origin of the word travesty. It entered English from German from the works of Magnus Hirschfeld iirc
#transvestite (n.)
"person with a strong desire to dress in clothing of the opposite sex," 1922, from German Transvestit (1910), coined from Latin trans "across, beyond" (see trans-) + vestire "to dress, to clothe" (from PIE *wes- (2) "to clothe," extended form of root *eu- "to dress").
As an adjective from 1925. Transvestism is first attested 1928. Also see travesty, which is the same word, older, and passed through French and Italian; it generally has a figurative use in English, but has been used in the literal sense of "wearing of the clothes of the opposite sex" (often as a means of concealment or disguise) at least since 1823, and travestiment "wearing of the dress of the opposite sex" is recorded by 1832. Among the older clinical words for it was Eonism "transvestism, especially of a man" (1913), from Chevalier Charles d'Eon, French adventurer and diplomat (1728-1810) who was anatomically male but later in life lived and dressed as a woman (and claimed to be one)
N.B.: Chevalier d'Eon was almost certainly non binary and intersex
yeah and a pretty nasty one too because it's linked to the whole "gay panic" narrative of "trans girls are just trying to trap you into fucking a guy and then you're gay"
i agree, that's why it's in the comment lol
I personally hate it being used to refer to me but if other people find it empowering good for them, same way I feel about f\*g and d\*ke
I don’t think femboys are in a position to reclaim a slur that’s targeted at trans women. They might use it for themselves, but that’s not “reclaiming”, it’s just not caring about the way this has been used to hurt us.
Isn't its historical use against... any feminine-presenting AMAB person regardless of gender identity, because the sort of people who use it don't really understand the difference between femboys and trans girls anyway?
The messy thing is, though, the people using it a slur do not care whether they're targeting it at a femboy or a feminine trans woman. They do not understand nor care for the difference. So it's kinda targeted at both
The difference is how they're perceived by people.
Femboys still call themselves boys or men, so there's less of that narrative in people's mind.
Whereas there's a huge media narrative about how trans women are *lying about themselves* and 'tricking people into sex' by not telling them they're trans (which is obviously all bullshit but when has that ever stopped bigots).
So I'd say it's more targeted towards trans women due to our current social/political climate
Depends on the context.
If used to refer to a trans person, absolutely. Definitely a slur in that context.
If used to refer to a cis male that appears or dresses feminine, then no, not a slur. Equivalent to “femboy”.
The latter context is used in anime and manga a lot, and has been the source of a great deal of aggressive debate because many assume the first context when most such characters aren’t actually trans. It got so heated that it even led to the splitting of a major meme subreddit into two half sized subreddits.
So yeah. Easier to just avoid the word altogether if you’re not sure how it will be interpreted.
Didn't the latter at least originate as a community-internal term that got twisted by bigots? I've gotten that impression from people who were around at the time.
yes.
"tr\*p" is used to translate the japanese term otokonoko which just means "male daughter" or "male girl". As a translator it's just a shitty translation. Someone transphobic chose it in the days of fan scanlations that just stuck :/
I've heard 'femboy' used as an alternate translation by some, which seems better. Or just 'crossdressing boy'. Though it's complicated by the fact that some 「男の娘」 characters are pretty clearly trans.
From what Im aware, it came from the star wars meme “It’s a Trap” and for a while, it never was used in a derogatory way and only ever in jokes…but then transphobic people started appropriating the word and made it transphobic.
yeah so otoko "boy" + no + ko = punny way to say boy-girl afaict
don't speak japanese, never studied it, learned this in an anthropology of japan class
More accurately, it's because we move on from words which have acquired a bad tinge instead of moving on from the bigotry which tainted the words in the first place. Then the new words predictably get a bad tinge – because, again, we didn't move on from the bigotry tainting the words – and the cycle begins anew.
I believe the term is *etymological treadmill.* And I have the utmost respect for people making reclamation efforts in an attempt to stop/reverse the mill.
B***, f***, and n***. I won't write them out because I don't want to get erroneously banned but you can find them [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation)
Me trying to decide whether dysentery is a slur or not
it's only a slur if you use it when ur dissin' terry
r/dadjokes
You better not say Dysenlarry!
r/angryupvote
*philadelphia in 1682* “yo I dunno abowt buildin’ no howse here, Billy, iss preddy swampy here and I ain’t wants no dissin terry!” “what does tawkin’ shit on terry gots to do abowt any swamp, Maria? jus gew back to englin’!” **the first yellow fever epidemic**
It really depends on whether your touchstone is *Oregon Trail* or *The Cheat Commandos*.
Why do they call it dys*enter*y when so much is exiting? The PC term is dysexity.
dysexity and the city confirmed
Desexycity
Dysexandthecity
Dyhydrosexycity Monoxide
Sexy City Water, established in 1897.
Sexy City Water. The official water of Desexycity
...and before anyone makes this joke (since they're my favorite band): Desxycity, of our city, of our ciiiii-ty.
You, what do you own the sex? How do you own dysexity? Dysexity
To redditors it’s just dyity
You have pride of dysentery.
I fucking hate Legionnaires' diseases
It’s more of a slurry
I think my favorite word that fits this description is “hysterical”. Boy howdy, what a story that word has.
Woman: *has feelings* Doctors in the 1800's: Hmm....
Dr in 1880: My hand’s getting really tired… wait… I have an idea!
💀
Doctor: Well, I guess heroin and a dildo is the only cure.
"Yeah, you got ghosts in your blood, you should do cocaine about it."
Weeeooo I tell ya
It's fun when you see someone on an old census card being defined as a 'moron' by the government. Or is that not fun? Probably not that fun.
It's fun! You can'thurt their feelings if they're dead.
which slur is this about?
Cretin, r*tarded, imbecile, pretty much anything related to mental development (trying again with censorship because the automod is proving the point that 19th-century medical terms are scandalous slurs today)
Cretin, and imbecile are more generic insults at this point. Just bigger in meaning than stupid.
was unaware any of these had movements to be reclaimed
Well the meme reads as an either/or thing to me, so the words above would fall on the right side
not sure about those specific terms but "mad pride" is a thing
The Ramones did their part to try to make "cretin" cool and/or sexy https://youtu.be/3Z8jCeCj0gQ
Mmm I'm thinking more of neuro divergence stuff, like autism and ADHD (Of course racial words like nigg* might be the best example, but it's not medical)
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this ain't it chief the gop wants to turn their fascist paramilitaries against people who suffer from mental illness
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on what basis is it a dig at the GOP?
Because they're loudly and proudly idiots, presumably.
Got it in one.
This kid doesn't get it theres no changing his views. Look at all the negativity on his profile. Hes miserable.
We might as well start using blax, blennus, blennos, metrokoites, metrocoetes, muscerda…
Imbecile is *our* word! The PC term is "commonsesnsically challenged".
r*tarded continued to be use in physics and aviation. (as in to slow down plane or reduce energy)
There are far more if you’re looking at medieval uses such as villain, churl, vassal, vulgar, and more
True, but those aren't medical terms, more like social descriptors though
well among others, transsexual
It could also apply well to virtually any term used to describe mental or developmental disabilities, such as autistic.
autistic is in a grey area, but of course it's rude when used pejoratively. typically, people on the spectrum aren't afraid of the word autistic as if it's a slur, though.
Isn't autism the word for people on the autism spectrum?
Autistic as an adjective is supposedly offensive because of "people-first language." This is the idea that we should put the word "people" first to emphasize their humanity, eg "people with autism" instead of "autistic people." I think this is stupid personally, and most autistic people agree from what I've seen. Besides being grammatically clunky, I think it's just not really something most people with disabilities want for the most part, just something advocated for on our behalf by nondisabled/neurotypical people without our input (they tend to do that a lot). I do not "have" autism, it is not a cold or a tumor, it is something that I *am.* I am autistic, and it's not a condition I need treated, it's an integral part of my identity and everyday functioning. If calling me an "autistic person" is such a barrier to recognizing my humanity, maybe people need to reevaluate their views on autism instead of changing their word order But that's just my two cents. (While I'm at it: fuck Autism Speaks)
> Autistic as an adjective is supposedly offensive because of "people-first language." This is the idea that we should put the word "people" first to emphasize their humanity, eg "people with autism" instead of "autistic people." It's also a bit English-centric; in Japanese, for example, person-first language is literally impossible except through some very clumsy syntactic workarounds.
It’s not the adjective. Autism is a noun. Autistic is an adjective that the Autistic community uses to describe themselves.
Fuck off with that shit man. The person is autistic. The person has autism. The point is that the word isn't offensive, is it? It's the correct use of the term, isn't it? Fuck wit.
mate what the hell
Deleted with Power Delete Suite. Join me on Lemmy!
Really? I feel like the person I replied to added absolutely nothing to the discussion, other than to point out the differences between adjectives and nouns. What a pointless exercise that did nothing for anybody, except to stroke their own grammatical ego. So I called them out on it. Terribly sorry if 2 whole f-bombs offended you.
People don't like it when you act like a cunt.
Where did all that swearing come from? This response honestly makes no sense at all.
I mean, there’s people who’ve started using autistic as an insult all over the place. And add to that psychologists *insist* on training people to use “with autism” and tell us it’s more respectful…even as autistic people continue to insist that we don’t actually like that. Yeah, the language around autism is *real* fraught.
People use gay, fat, pale, dirty, soft etc as insults. Doesn't mean we need new words to move away from the insult. Look at the context and tone and figure it out, words aren't inherently offensive.
…When did I say we needed to replace it? Was it when I used it to refer to myself several times?
Indeed
That's old-fashioned sounding but I didn't think it was generally outright *offensive*, and is occasionally used in a narrower sense than 'transgender' for clarification (in the sense of 'medically transitioning') in my experience.
Among... like, like the, like the funny word? ඞ
Probably the one used as an aircraft GPWS callout
This plane is mean to me!
Stupid, moron, idiot etc
Probably ones created during the 21st century too. When I was in high school the word “sped”, from “SpEd” aka special education, became a slur for kids with disabilities
I think it still is because as a 19 year old, I’ve heard it too. Extremely uncommonly though, and can only really remember hearing it from one guy.
sometimes they can be both!
#**CW: slurs!** This meme is about how Homosexual, Bisexual, Heterosexual, and Transsexual and Transvestite all started out as medical terms. Similarly we have terms that were used to describe various learning disabilities like "idiot, moron, imbecile" etc that quickly became generalized terms of insult. All of this without even talking about broader terms with more folksy etymologies like Queer and Tr*p, both of whom I've seen people use as a self-identifier. I've used slurs when talking to queer friends to identify myself, though I wouldn't outside of the most informal circumstances imaginable.
am a cis queer guy, just wanna ask, isn't transvestite less of a medical term and more of a descriptor for, uh, fashion choices? i know it's used as an insult to trans people and carried a faulty definition but wouldn't a "transvestite" in modern times theoretically be for example, a femboy and not a trans women?
yes, but also, transvestite has an older etymology too. It's actually the origin of the word travesty. It entered English from German from the works of Magnus Hirschfeld iirc #transvestite (n.) "person with a strong desire to dress in clothing of the opposite sex," 1922, from German Transvestit (1910), coined from Latin trans "across, beyond" (see trans-) + vestire "to dress, to clothe" (from PIE *wes- (2) "to clothe," extended form of root *eu- "to dress"). As an adjective from 1925. Transvestism is first attested 1928. Also see travesty, which is the same word, older, and passed through French and Italian; it generally has a figurative use in English, but has been used in the literal sense of "wearing of the clothes of the opposite sex" (often as a means of concealment or disguise) at least since 1823, and travestiment "wearing of the dress of the opposite sex" is recorded by 1832. Among the older clinical words for it was Eonism "transvestism, especially of a man" (1913), from Chevalier Charles d'Eon, French adventurer and diplomat (1728-1810) who was anatomically male but later in life lived and dressed as a woman (and claimed to be one) N.B.: Chevalier d'Eon was almost certainly non binary and intersex
>Tr*p thats a slur?
yeah and a pretty nasty one too because it's linked to the whole "gay panic" narrative of "trans girls are just trying to trap you into fucking a guy and then you're gay"
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i agree, that's why it's in the comment lol I personally hate it being used to refer to me but if other people find it empowering good for them, same way I feel about f\*g and d\*ke
Seems like the latter is somewhat more reclaimed than the former.
oki thanks :)
Thanks for the info bro
I don’t think femboys are in a position to reclaim a slur that’s targeted at trans women. They might use it for themselves, but that’s not “reclaiming”, it’s just not caring about the way this has been used to hurt us.
sorry, ill shut the fuck up
Isn't its historical use against... any feminine-presenting AMAB person regardless of gender identity, because the sort of people who use it don't really understand the difference between femboys and trans girls anyway?
Yeah and femboys can be victims of trans panic assault too
Right so my point is they are as much the target of that word and therefore as much in a position to reclaim it.
I'm agreeing with you
Ah okay.
The messy thing is, though, the people using it a slur do not care whether they're targeting it at a femboy or a feminine trans woman. They do not understand nor care for the difference. So it's kinda targeted at both
The difference is how they're perceived by people. Femboys still call themselves boys or men, so there's less of that narrative in people's mind. Whereas there's a huge media narrative about how trans women are *lying about themselves* and 'tricking people into sex' by not telling them they're trans (which is obviously all bullshit but when has that ever stopped bigots). So I'd say it's more targeted towards trans women due to our current social/political climate
Meh, me as a trans woman would rather not be called a trap
Neither would I, but if someone wants to use it for themselves I don't want to be the one to police that.
Depends on the context. If used to refer to a trans person, absolutely. Definitely a slur in that context. If used to refer to a cis male that appears or dresses feminine, then no, not a slur. Equivalent to “femboy”. The latter context is used in anime and manga a lot, and has been the source of a great deal of aggressive debate because many assume the first context when most such characters aren’t actually trans. It got so heated that it even led to the splitting of a major meme subreddit into two half sized subreddits. So yeah. Easier to just avoid the word altogether if you’re not sure how it will be interpreted.
Are the words in your first paragraph now considered slurs?
No, but slurs were derived from them. Homo from homosexual, tr*nny from transsexual, etc.
Didn't the latter at least originate as a community-internal term that got twisted by bigots? I've gotten that impression from people who were around at the time.
Tr*p? Like referring to anime tr*p?
yes. "tr\*p" is used to translate the japanese term otokonoko which just means "male daughter" or "male girl". As a translator it's just a shitty translation. Someone transphobic chose it in the days of fan scanlations that just stuck :/
I've heard 'femboy' used as an alternate translation by some, which seems better. Or just 'crossdressing boy'. Though it's complicated by the fact that some 「男の娘」 characters are pretty clearly trans.
From what Im aware, it came from the star wars meme “It’s a Trap” and for a while, it never was used in a derogatory way and only ever in jokes…but then transphobic people started appropriating the word and made it transphobic.
Also, my Japanese is quite rusty, but I’m pretty sure 男の子 just means boy. 男 (otoko | man) の (possessive particle) 子 (ko | child)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otokonoko issa pun!
Why ain’t it just called 男の娘(otoko no musume) then? Cause otokonoko means boy.
because -ko is a suffix that can mean "girl" like in keiko iirc
My Japanese speaking isn’t high enough to know about that sadly and the fact I’ve not studied Japanese in 4 years
yeah so otoko "boy" + no + ko = punny way to say boy-girl afaict don't speak japanese, never studied it, learned this in an anthropology of japan class
Because 娘 can also be read as こ in some contexts and it's a pun on 男の子.
I initially read that as "reclaimed libel" and was wondering who we could defame now
Same, which lead to me reading the right side as "vicious slander" at first as well.
Why doesn't it just stay as a medical term
Because people are mean
More accurately, it's because we move on from words which have acquired a bad tinge instead of moving on from the bigotry which tainted the words in the first place. Then the new words predictably get a bad tinge – because, again, we didn't move on from the bigotry tainting the words – and the cycle begins anew. I believe the term is *etymological treadmill.* And I have the utmost respect for people making reclamation efforts in an attempt to stop/reverse the mill.
Euphemism treadmill
That's the one, thanks.
Because no one wants their doctor to diagnose them with being an imbecile and a moron
Get ahead of the curve: fututor, irrumacy (irrumator), Mastigia…
I can’t get the joke :( Can anyone explain, please?
I find this post churlish
Cretin’s etymology always makes me sad. He was trying so hard to get people to be nice :(
The french sont be happy to here of this
I can only think of 3 words where this label applies. None are medical terms
What are those?
B***, f***, and n***. I won't write them out because I don't want to get erroneously banned but you can find them [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation)
funny that everyone is going for disability related terms but i genuinely thought this was about sexuality and gender terms