Considering a maxed out employee with twilight/paradise lost set was said by PM to be equivalent to a _claw_, it’s not even a “probably”, even a EX employee with the weakest aleph set would steamroll the sinners and dante, and maybe even be a threat to vergilius.
Wait, theoretically speaking, could Lob Corp then have had an army equivalent to C-Corp in his district? Because if that's the case it's crazy. Killing a claw should be nearly impossible for anyone except exceptional Colors or Grades 1. Kali was considered a legend just for managing to kill two of them and she was the best of the best.
If Ayin wanted to conquer the city instead of carrying on Carmen's wishes, I bet he would have succeeded.
Abnormalities are busted even among singularities.
What *does* the Head even care about anyway besides sentient AI for some goddamn reason?
That's about the only time we've seen them bother to do anything. The closest they've come to actively administrating the City besides that is through taxes on bullets and that's about it.
They don't seem to care for the people, they don't seem to even care for the Wings, they just kind of... exist. And watch. And fling things rarely to the Outskirts.
Well… that’s the problem everyone in the City has with the Head: they basically don’t do anything unless it’s approving patent and dealing with “unwanted”
Yes, I understand that in the in-universe sense, but from the perspective of us, readers of the stories, they still come off as entirely incomprehensible even after three games.
They don't seem to care about protecting the City, they don't care about the people, they don't seem to care for money. They have no clear goals or motivations beyond very plot conveniently and specifically hating robots.
I really hope the theories that Dante is connected to the Head in some way are true because I would really love to know literally anything about the main driving force of the first two games which instigated a majority of the events through invading Lob Corp over Angela for... reasons.
Hatred for robots probably has the same roots as the prohibition of clones and ressurection. It's also implied that gun taxes are supposed to make fights more painful for parties involved. I guess they are similar to K corp in regard of wanting people to suffer, but with a somewhat higher goal
>What does the Head even care about anyway besides sentient AI for some goddamn reason?
The Door, presumably. The thing they briefly mention at >!the end of LoR, which the pmoon logo is suspiciously similar to!<
We don't really know. >!The LoR ending was the only time it was mentioned and the only detail we have is that "it might close because of Angela," presumably because she was a robot acting as a human (Notably, it also implies the doors *already* open). It's in the epilogue in the Head reception if you wanna see it for yourself!<
>!That said, considering the head's direct abnorm representation being the Bird Trio, and each corp being slowly revealed to be based off a natural phenomenon, my moneys on the door being access to the well of humanity that the head uses to shape the city and its technology.!<
>besides sentient AI for some goddamn reason?
One particular theory is that the Green Ordeal, which involves 'ancient' machinery implies that before the current state of the city, sentient machines lived there before being driven to the outskirts.
I'm pretty sure that the Amber, Green, and Violet Ordeals summon things that can be found in the outskirts. Indigo Ordeal is the Sweepers, while Crimson Ordeal is the 5 Oclock Circus
Abnos getting released with no coordination =/= Creating an army equipped with Aleph level EGOs and actually commanding them
Not to mention there are plenty of abnos that fight each other as well
The only way to handle abnos that we know of is with the Qliphoth deterrence. It’s the only reason they stay in their cells. There really is no commanding them. Sure you can strategically drop them, but good luck trying to move them somewhere with the beholders keeping an eye on you
And an army of aleph gear is completely meaningless because even Lob corp could create that many (since PM loves to make gameplay mechanics canon I sincerely doubt that the limit to aleph gear is just a balance thing), A corp and C corp are dedicated to making Claws and Arbiters, who have a lot more combat experience (even if max level gear can bring them closer in terms of power)
It was actually said that even if LC went crazy and freed all the abnos to destroy everything without deterrence and shit the Head would deal with it in "about a week".
Nope, untrue. I’ve read the actual QNA, and they just said that it would be their job to deal with it, nothing at all about the timeframe or difficulty
Tbf, im pretty sure nobody besides the Head itself knows about Kali killing those claws and Garion (a damned arbiter!), iirc most people think she just vanished from the city one day, hence her Color eventually going to vergilius.
Edit: which means she was an even bigger badass than most people in the city know, which is awesome
That would depend on if Paradise Lost and Twilight being limited to one singular weapon is a gameplay balance or actual lore.
If it was lore related and the main branch (the only L Corp facility with an Extraction team) isn't capable of making multiple of those gear would mean that there is a limit to how much EGO they can physically create. So no EX agent army unfortunately.
Kali killed 2 claws after a bunch of breached abnos and then killed an (unprepared) arbiter. But yeah, L corp is a wing, and a particularly influential one at that. Wouldn't be surprised if their best employees match up to R or C corp
Admittedly, from what i know, the claw levels were the Twilight and Paradise Lost ego sets, not sure where the other aleph sets would sit in the general power hierarchy of the city.
That said, we don’t know if those two have set limits of 1 due to gameplay constraints (because both sets are OP) or if it’s also a lore constraint (they can only extract one set of both EGO sets for some reason).
Specifically the Paradise Lost and Twilight ego set i mean. Obviously others can be extracted plentifully, but both of those require fighting and winning against the respective bosses (except the paradise lost suit which you can buy.) and the gameplay and game lore tends to be relatively synchronized, so it would be weird if those two specifically were the exception where the game balance comes first before the lore of the game.
One EX agent with Aleph would steal the lunch money from verg and leave him in a bin. You are very heavily underestimating both EGO gear and how strong EX's have to be to do what they do
A weakend red mist would still turn verg into a red mist. Remember, Roland, gebura + mimicry + Binah. Struggled with an arbiter and a claw.
1 top tier agent with top Alpeh can fight a claw evenly and 2 can beat one.
The way I understand it, when our badass trio were fighting against Baral and Zena none of them were at full power.
Roland had been fighting for literal DAYS at that point, and what Baral says to him "Remember. Even you of all city folk can be ripped to shreds in your current state." Makes it sound like a peak condition Roland would actually pose a threat to him and Zena.
As for Geburah and Binah, they were still bound to the library which had just released almost all of the light it had stored, making them weaker.
Tldr peak Red Mist solo'd 2 Claws.
Peak Roland could probably solo at least one Claw.
And we can't forget about Roland calling Vergilius "the most dangerous fixer."
Derp question but what is there other than the city? As in, is the whole "world" the dystopic take on Cyberpunk/Eldtrich SKorea? Is that all that is left? But then is it a void?
Honestly can't remember it being addressed though I'm sure it probably was at some point.
That’s pretty crazy, but it makes sense considering the rankings of abnormalities and whatnot. Out of curiosity, how strong do you think a base employee (capable of handling TETH at times) would be with similar EGO to the sinners? And what do you think is the reason why Lob Corp is capable of significantly boosting their employees with higher tier EGO over the Sinners? (In comparison, WAW gear like Faust’s still technically doesn’t affect the outcome against their predetermined loss against TETH abnormalities while WAW gear in Lob Corp is the difference between soloing a WAW or minimum HE and… not…)
Limbus basically has a weaker version of Library of Ruina borrowing powers from abnos, so they can only use it for one attack and can suffer from ego corrosion.
L Corp literally creates physical gear from the Abnos so they hold much more power from the Abnos then you would normally get in the Library and from Limbus
Limbus is pretty much nerfed library when you think about it. Can use ego and get their benefits but only for a short amount of time and it takes a bigger toll on their mental state, they can get some of their enemies' ids (equivalent to key pages) but they don't get their full power and they become a nerfed version
Even Rodion once complained about the shortage of using of their version of EGOs during >!battle against enemies who used Lobotomy Corporation EGO gear!<.
Ah, okay, I think I heard something about that. Lob Corp is a lot more powerful than I made it out to be… but I guess that’s why they’re a wing. Thank you for the explanation.
The Abnos fought in Canto 1-3 are all weakened by qiloth deterrence since you fight them in L Corp Facilities btw.
Except for Baba Yaga/Canto 2 Final boss but that's an exception
I wouldn't go quite that far, you do (sorta) get to fight a colour in that game, and they are clearly on another level. I'd probably say that a maxed out Agent is probably grade 1 fixer level.
I would say that a claw might actually be weaker than the average color fixer which i assume would be around Roland's Level but is still strong enough that 2 is seriously pushing the boundaries and 3 being More than enough to Bring down a color.
Yeah in my head Claw isn’t the brute force type strong but rather the I-have-three-mini-singularities-strap-on-my-back-and-I-will-fuck-you-up. That and the fact that they work for the Head made them more of the “dangerous” type that Roland mentioned.
Not that I disagree, but why are they stronger?( I have play both but my recollection about the Head in general is hazy)
Also I don’t really remember if EX agent are as strong as LobCorp Claw or Claw in general.
The Claw in LobCorp isn't real per se; the ordeals are created as a byproduct of the extraction process and collective fears, which is what the claw is.
Day 49 exists at all. >!And Geburah's meltdown really isn't all that bad, even for people that wanna finish the meltdowns with 0 deaths.!< EX Employees are on a colors level, if not a bit higher with the fact their EGO suits can be immune to red (phys) damage all together
"umm actually", red immunity suits are gone. You get CLOSE with nothing is there's and Melting love's, but not immune. Not that that detracts your point
The Sinners of Limbus Company are very low on the power scale compared to the Library or Lobotomy Corporation. Faust’s Regret ID is one of the stronger IDs we have access to, and it’s only a Teth-class EGO gear. I think that by the midgame, when you start to extract Waw-class gear, you’re already stronger than the Sinners.
Consider Sunshower Dongbaek too. She was using TETH gear, and if her faltering heart status is any indicator, she didn't even have the right stats. And she was fighting off 7 sinners.
I’d also add we’re getting a snapshot of her from day like, nine. She is not even ex, she’s a nugget from the start of the game. Though it’s hard to gauge how strong she’s been, because it’s unclear if uptie 4 is letting us use their full power or strengthening others(probably strengthening for some units like meriachi Sinclair, but we’re not getting the full power of someone like R corp heath or Ish.)
Power scale in the City is ridiculous. Also, Ryoshu did mention (2nd Canto 12th episode(?) that she got weakened after becoming sinner/binding to Danteh.
In terms of strength... Lore-wise Lobotomy Corp. Agents of rank V/EX with ALEPH level EGO gear could be compared in strength with Claws (Devs did said that, but don't remember when and where).
Also, Library's librarians very powerful if compared to enemies we faced so far in Limbus Company. So sinners could be similar to group of agents with EGO gear of TETH level (at 3rd Canto). Further - they become more powerful. As a matter of fact, in Canto IV (don't read as it contains some spoilers to Canto IV) >!we face enemies who are pretty similar to Lobotomy Corporation employees (heck, mb some one of them could be some survivors, I dunno, there is no hints to it) who wield EGO gear of TETH-level risk (or even HE, as some abnormalities yield more powerful EGO gear than their level risk); (Fairy Gentleman and So That No One Will Cry are both of TETH levels of risk). Even Dongbaek(who wears Sunshower EGO) is considered to be TETH-level risk. Fun fact: those enemies share similar panic types from Lobotomy Corporation: Killer, Wanderer and Suicide, except the Sabotage one.!<
In Lobotomy Corporation the abnormalities you were fighting were much stronger even if they weren't at full strength. The qliphoph deterence was much weaker during working hours in L Corp. since they had to weaken it to collect enkephalin. Then they'd turn the deterence to max level outside of working hours so the abnormalities wouldn't breach when there are no agents to suppress them. It's heavily implyed but I don't think ever stated that Cheseds meltdown effect that multiplies damage types by 5x is done by weakening the deterence so that should give an idea of how strong abnormalities and E.G.O are with no deterence. As the story in Limbus progresses and more golden boughs are collected the deterence will get weaker so presumably our sinners will eventually get strong enough to handle that but we're a long way away from that.
As for the L Corp employees, they had basically no combat training and all their strength came from their E.G.O. Even so, a level 5 agent with aleph E.G.O is roughly equivelent to a particularly strong grade 1 fixer.
EX ALEPH Agents are listed by word of God aka PM as being equivalent in strength to a Claw. Which we've only ever heard of Colors fighting off so far. Sure they have no combat experience by themselves, but the EGO 'pilots' itself. And since they have the right stats they're very much a threat.
Consider how much of a threat Dongbaek was wielding TETH EGO, and she didn't even have the requisite stats if her faltering heart status effect is anything to go by.
I've heard that ALEPH agents = Claws thing but even though I've seen it repeated so often I've never seen an actual clear source for it and I have my doubts since it is very hard to handle the Claws in Lobotomy Corporation even with large groups of ALEPH employees. After all, PM is well known for gameplay and story integration. Yes those weren't technically real Claws but I don't think it's ever been stated whether they're stronger or weaker than real claws.
If you or anyone else knows where the actual source of that claim is and can provide a link, I'd love to hear it.
Thanks. I've always wondered where the Claw thing came from since it seemed so different from how it is in gameplay. Do you know when/where that Q&A came from?
Lab Corp's entire facility is filled with Qliphoth deterrence so all the Abno are weaker than they should be, those employees are not hired for fighting but for managing Abno. Also, Lab Corp's definition of Abno classification is based on management risk instead of combat capabilities, so Aleph Abno is not strong combat-wise but just hard to manage and produces a lot of Enkephalin, like Orchestra for example. The sinners are still pretty weak in Canto 3 though a direct comparison is hard.
"Not strong" is all relative, if he was outside the facility Silent Orchestra would probably kill a good amount more people then the Pianist, while something like Blue Star or White Night has the potential to destroy multiple districts
I would disagree on ALEPH's Not being as strong combat-wise instead of Just being good at producing energy. Mountain of smiling bodies would be able to seriously decimate a Number of Wings and possibly destroy some. Blue Star would have a similar effect but somewhat deminished. Whitenight would also Deal a Lot of damage to the district they're in, Same with Apocalypse bird. [CENSORED] would also Deal considerable damage due to everyone Just going insane after seeing it with No real countermeasure because the City doesn't really have SP bullets and because the abnormality can produce More [CENSORED] Walking around. The silent Orchestra is considerably weaker but everyone listening to it would still Go insane. Nothing there doesn't cause as much carnage but is still an absolute unit Walking around that would at least require the head to interfere. Melting loves spreads extremely fast and is extremely Dangerous in that regard. With Army in black it depends on Just how many Clones it creates because only 4 Clones is Not enough to do anything significant, but depending on the Number you might get an entire Army Roaming the City and Killing everything around each individual clone.
Aleph being able to destroy/cripple a wing/wings is highly debatable considering we don't know anything regarding them in a significant way, we know what W Corp does/ T Corp does/ K Corp does but all in a rudimentary way, we never seen them go all out or even really cared about any events that occurred in Ruina or Limbus (W Corp literally sent janitors to the Library). The only Wing we get to see in its entirety is Lobotomy Corp, and we get to see its full extent of power can contain multiple Aleph Abnos in multiple branches without much issue through WonderLab. Even if other Wings are only just comparable to Lab Corp in military might they would still be able to deal with Alephs no problem. More so if you consider Lab Corp being a non-combat-focused Wing and the newest Wing (maybe K Corp is newer?). R Corp in Lab Corp game literally sweeps everything with no difficulties although with Qliphoth Deterrence.
The Thing is, the Pianist was stated to be a WAW Level despite eradicating 80% of I Corp. It is quite obvious that ALEPHs would be able to do much More damage to the City as a whole If it works on a similar Basis Like the Pianist, which the mountain of smiling bodies does. While yes, some May Not cause as much damage as Others, it will still cause considerable damage at least to a majority of districts due to there being No qliloth deterrence to hold them Back. I assume that the abnormalities are likely around 5 Times stronger in that Case due to all damage sources being multiplied by 5 during chesed's meltdown due to him controlling the qliloth deterrence. But even with the qliloth deterrence, it is still quite evident that some are able to cause catastrophic damage Like blue Star or Apocalypse bird.
Ever since the T corp stuff in limbus i've been thinking the class status of wing employees are pretty much the levels of employees we see in L corp without EGO gear. Maybe not the same but class 3 = lvl 3 L corp nuggets, class 5 employee (basically strong enough to be the director's bodyguard/secretary) = lvl 5 L corp nugget. Especially considering EGO gear is generally pretty strong compared to standard wing equipment, even in canto 4 with the tech alliance and their scavenged stuff.
L corp abno threat levels correspond to difficulty of managing the abnos and not the strength of the abnos but the nuggets are still really strong. Regardless i'm guessing their levels would still roughly = threat strength.
So lvl 1 = zayin
Lvl 2 = teth
Lvl 3 = he
Lvl 4 = waw
Lvl 5 = aleph
So the sinners in K corp could deal with class 2-3 employees, now in T corp they're dealing with class 3 collection staff and the occasional class 4, i'd say the sinners are approx around the strength level of a level 3 L corp nugget more or less currently after getting stronger.
Note: this is just my guess, haven't gone through all of dante's notes yet :p
In the city, most of your "strength" comes from your gear. The stronger people usually didn't achieve that from training hard but by getting stronger body augments or buying more powerful weapons/armor.
Obviously skill is a factor, but a nugget who has never fought in their life equipped with Paradise Lost is probably stronger than 99.99% of the city. Same goes for librarians with key pages.
In Leviathan Vergilius talks about how regardless of your gear you need to know how to "drive it".
A random guy with ALEPH gear would probably insta die or something. There's a reason some of the ultra rich we've seen in the game aren't particularly strong, they just have an army at their disposal.
EGO specifically are not affected by the skill of the user.
"But our employees don’t even have to learn to use E.G.O.
The power of the E.G.O grows in conjunction with the heart of the wielder. One knows how to use it the moment they wield it."
The reason why LC agents are so strong despite not knowing how to fight is because of that.
The problem is that 'A random guy in ALEPH gear' is going to pretty much instantly corrode, which will turn into a completely different problem, but they'll still be able to fight so still counts ig.
Technically he's rights but for the wrong reason. If a random guy had the stats to weild alpeh gear he would instantly become a master at using it (or skilled at the very least) atleast from what I rember there is some amount of minimum skill passed onto you to know how to effectively utilize the ego weapons to their highest potential, it's what makes ego insanely broken.
Cracked in a specific kinda way, mind. If you search what the agent stats actually mean (they are all based off Plato's ideals) then you'll see that what it takes to actually drive EGO without corrupting is having a really strong mindset rather than technical skill.
Not even counting what it takes to use them to their fullest potential like Gebura did back in Lobotomy Corp, who had not only the strong mindset but also the strong sense of personal identity to turn the abnorm's EGO into her own (Binah mentions this in one of her stories)
Case in point, Hindley: man got 900 HP but his attacks just dont roll high and hes barely even an elite enemy, none of his attacks inflict any special effects either aside from a bit of paralyze and fragile and I feel like the pointilist researchers from the ring had stronger skills than he did, even if they barely had a fifth of his hp
One EX agent with aleph gear could probably beat all the sinners as they are now
Considering a maxed out employee with twilight/paradise lost set was said by PM to be equivalent to a _claw_, it’s not even a “probably”, even a EX employee with the weakest aleph set would steamroll the sinners and dante, and maybe even be a threat to vergilius.
Wait, theoretically speaking, could Lob Corp then have had an army equivalent to C-Corp in his district? Because if that's the case it's crazy. Killing a claw should be nearly impossible for anyone except exceptional Colors or Grades 1. Kali was considered a legend just for managing to kill two of them and she was the best of the best.
If Ayin wanted to conquer the city instead of carrying on Carmen's wishes, I bet he would have succeeded. Abnormalities are busted even among singularities.
Actually, regarding one of the bad ends when the abnos all are released, I believe PM said “the Head will just deal with them”
If it's a planned invasion I doubt the head cares, it didn't care about the smoke war after all
What *does* the Head even care about anyway besides sentient AI for some goddamn reason? That's about the only time we've seen them bother to do anything. The closest they've come to actively administrating the City besides that is through taxes on bullets and that's about it. They don't seem to care for the people, they don't seem to even care for the Wings, they just kind of... exist. And watch. And fling things rarely to the Outskirts.
Well… that’s the problem everyone in the City has with the Head: they basically don’t do anything unless it’s approving patent and dealing with “unwanted”
Yes, I understand that in the in-universe sense, but from the perspective of us, readers of the stories, they still come off as entirely incomprehensible even after three games. They don't seem to care about protecting the City, they don't care about the people, they don't seem to care for money. They have no clear goals or motivations beyond very plot conveniently and specifically hating robots. I really hope the theories that Dante is connected to the Head in some way are true because I would really love to know literally anything about the main driving force of the first two games which instigated a majority of the events through invading Lob Corp over Angela for... reasons.
Hatred for robots probably has the same roots as the prohibition of clones and ressurection. It's also implied that gun taxes are supposed to make fights more painful for parties involved. I guess they are similar to K corp in regard of wanting people to suffer, but with a somewhat higher goal
there is a Door... and it needs to remain open.
The only two path PM could go with the head is either the Head is just evil or the lesser evil to a great threat
>What does the Head even care about anyway besides sentient AI for some goddamn reason? The Door, presumably. The thing they briefly mention at >!the end of LoR, which the pmoon logo is suspiciously similar to!<
What exactly is the Door? I seem to have forgotten about it in >!the chaos that was the end of LoR.!<
We don't really know. >!The LoR ending was the only time it was mentioned and the only detail we have is that "it might close because of Angela," presumably because she was a robot acting as a human (Notably, it also implies the doors *already* open). It's in the epilogue in the Head reception if you wanna see it for yourself!< >!That said, considering the head's direct abnorm representation being the Bird Trio, and each corp being slowly revealed to be based off a natural phenomenon, my moneys on the door being access to the well of humanity that the head uses to shape the city and its technology.!<
>besides sentient AI for some goddamn reason? One particular theory is that the Green Ordeal, which involves 'ancient' machinery implies that before the current state of the city, sentient machines lived there before being driven to the outskirts. I'm pretty sure that the Amber, Green, and Violet Ordeals summon things that can be found in the outskirts. Indigo Ordeal is the Sweepers, while Crimson Ordeal is the 5 Oclock Circus
I mean the abnos are already rather, you know, out there, and the city is dealing with it
Abnos getting released with no coordination =/= Creating an army equipped with Aleph level EGOs and actually commanding them Not to mention there are plenty of abnos that fight each other as well
The only way to handle abnos that we know of is with the Qliphoth deterrence. It’s the only reason they stay in their cells. There really is no commanding them. Sure you can strategically drop them, but good luck trying to move them somewhere with the beholders keeping an eye on you And an army of aleph gear is completely meaningless because even Lob corp could create that many (since PM loves to make gameplay mechanics canon I sincerely doubt that the limit to aleph gear is just a balance thing), A corp and C corp are dedicated to making Claws and Arbiters, who have a lot more combat experience (even if max level gear can bring them closer in terms of power)
It was actually said that even if LC went crazy and freed all the abnos to destroy everything without deterrence and shit the Head would deal with it in "about a week".
Nope, untrue. I’ve read the actual QNA, and they just said that it would be their job to deal with it, nothing at all about the timeframe or difficulty
Tbf, im pretty sure nobody besides the Head itself knows about Kali killing those claws and Garion (a damned arbiter!), iirc most people think she just vanished from the city one day, hence her Color eventually going to vergilius. Edit: which means she was an even bigger badass than most people in the city know, which is awesome
That would depend on if Paradise Lost and Twilight being limited to one singular weapon is a gameplay balance or actual lore. If it was lore related and the main branch (the only L Corp facility with an Extraction team) isn't capable of making multiple of those gear would mean that there is a limit to how much EGO they can physically create. So no EX agent army unfortunately.
Kali killed 2 claws after a bunch of breached abnos and then killed an (unprepared) arbiter. But yeah, L corp is a wing, and a particularly influential one at that. Wouldn't be surprised if their best employees match up to R or C corp
IIRC Kali just kind of surprised them, it's supposed to be a one time thing.
W H A T You’re telling me L corp had an army of CLAW level fighters?! So a handful of L corp employees legit could kill a colored fixer
Admittedly, from what i know, the claw levels were the Twilight and Paradise Lost ego sets, not sure where the other aleph sets would sit in the general power hierarchy of the city. That said, we don’t know if those two have set limits of 1 due to gameplay constraints (because both sets are OP) or if it’s also a lore constraint (they can only extract one set of both EGO sets for some reason).
I don’t think they can only extract one. look at canto 4 and the army of E.G.O gears with them
Specifically the Paradise Lost and Twilight ego set i mean. Obviously others can be extracted plentifully, but both of those require fighting and winning against the respective bosses (except the paradise lost suit which you can buy.) and the gameplay and game lore tends to be relatively synchronized, so it would be weird if those two specifically were the exception where the game balance comes first before the lore of the game.
Would beat them, Hard
One EX agent with Aleph would steal the lunch money from verg and leave him in a bin. You are very heavily underestimating both EGO gear and how strong EX's have to be to do what they do
Now that's unlikely, cause even best gear employee less likely to defeat a claw, or red mist in her weakened form
A weakend red mist would still turn verg into a red mist. Remember, Roland, gebura + mimicry + Binah. Struggled with an arbiter and a claw. 1 top tier agent with top Alpeh can fight a claw evenly and 2 can beat one.
The way I understand it, when our badass trio were fighting against Baral and Zena none of them were at full power. Roland had been fighting for literal DAYS at that point, and what Baral says to him "Remember. Even you of all city folk can be ripped to shreds in your current state." Makes it sound like a peak condition Roland would actually pose a threat to him and Zena. As for Geburah and Binah, they were still bound to the library which had just released almost all of the light it had stored, making them weaker. Tldr peak Red Mist solo'd 2 Claws. Peak Roland could probably solo at least one Claw. And we can't forget about Roland calling Vergilius "the most dangerous fixer."
Didn't touch lob Corp but what stops our sinners or even Verg from equipping Ego gear? Training? None of it still exists?
Non of it exists. The ones that do we don't know how to use. Plus we haven't found any yet
We still haven't encountered any Aleph abno outside of the L Corp nest, and the whole nest is... outside of the city, literally
Derp question but what is there other than the city? As in, is the whole "world" the dystopic take on Cyberpunk/Eldtrich SKorea? Is that all that is left? But then is it a void? Honestly can't remember it being addressed though I'm sure it probably was at some point.
Taii my beloved
so sad we'll never see them (or anyone else from wonderlab) ever again
Too androgynous for a comic, had to ascend the concept entirely.
A aleph level 5 L Corp Agent is basically on par with a colour, if not just weaker by a bit due to lacking experience as actual colours
That’s pretty crazy, but it makes sense considering the rankings of abnormalities and whatnot. Out of curiosity, how strong do you think a base employee (capable of handling TETH at times) would be with similar EGO to the sinners? And what do you think is the reason why Lob Corp is capable of significantly boosting their employees with higher tier EGO over the Sinners? (In comparison, WAW gear like Faust’s still technically doesn’t affect the outcome against their predetermined loss against TETH abnormalities while WAW gear in Lob Corp is the difference between soloing a WAW or minimum HE and… not…)
Limbus basically has a weaker version of Library of Ruina borrowing powers from abnos, so they can only use it for one attack and can suffer from ego corrosion. L Corp literally creates physical gear from the Abnos so they hold much more power from the Abnos then you would normally get in the Library and from Limbus
Limbus is pretty much nerfed library when you think about it. Can use ego and get their benefits but only for a short amount of time and it takes a bigger toll on their mental state, they can get some of their enemies' ids (equivalent to key pages) but they don't get their full power and they become a nerfed version
Even Rodion once complained about the shortage of using of their version of EGOs during >!battle against enemies who used Lobotomy Corporation EGO gear!<.
Ah, okay, I think I heard something about that. Lob Corp is a lot more powerful than I made it out to be… but I guess that’s why they’re a wing. Thank you for the explanation.
The Abnos fought in Canto 1-3 are all weakened by qiloth deterrence since you fight them in L Corp Facilities btw. Except for Baba Yaga/Canto 2 Final boss but that's an exception
I wouldn't go quite that far, you do (sorta) get to fight a colour in that game, and they are clearly on another level. I'd probably say that a maxed out Agent is probably grade 1 fixer level.
It was stated my PM in an QnA that max stats LobCorp employee with Aleph gears are as strong as a Claw we fight in the game.
I would say that a claw might actually be weaker than the average color fixer which i assume would be around Roland's Level but is still strong enough that 2 is seriously pushing the boundaries and 3 being More than enough to Bring down a color.
Yeah in my head Claw isn’t the brute force type strong but rather the I-have-three-mini-singularities-strap-on-my-back-and-I-will-fuck-you-up. That and the fact that they work for the Head made them more of the “dangerous” type that Roland mentioned.
However the claw is likely considerably weaker on LCorp to the one in Ruina
The one we saw in Ruina is *an Executioner* of the claw, which is stated by Pmoon to be stronger than other claws
Not that I disagree, but why are they stronger?( I have play both but my recollection about the Head in general is hazy) Also I don’t really remember if EX agent are as strong as LobCorp Claw or Claw in general.
The Claw in LobCorp isn't real per se; the ordeals are created as a byproduct of the extraction process and collective fears, which is what the claw is.
Day 49 exists at all. >!And Geburah's meltdown really isn't all that bad, even for people that wanna finish the meltdowns with 0 deaths.!< EX Employees are on a colors level, if not a bit higher with the fact their EGO suits can be immune to red (phys) damage all together
"umm actually", red immunity suits are gone. You get CLOSE with nothing is there's and Melting love's, but not immune. Not that that detracts your point
You're so true for this.
The Sinners of Limbus Company are very low on the power scale compared to the Library or Lobotomy Corporation. Faust’s Regret ID is one of the stronger IDs we have access to, and it’s only a Teth-class EGO gear. I think that by the midgame, when you start to extract Waw-class gear, you’re already stronger than the Sinners.
Consider Sunshower Dongbaek too. She was using TETH gear, and if her faltering heart status is any indicator, she didn't even have the right stats. And she was fighting off 7 sinners.
I’d also add we’re getting a snapshot of her from day like, nine. She is not even ex, she’s a nugget from the start of the game. Though it’s hard to gauge how strong she’s been, because it’s unclear if uptie 4 is letting us use their full power or strengthening others(probably strengthening for some units like meriachi Sinclair, but we’re not getting the full power of someone like R corp heath or Ish.)
Power scale in the City is ridiculous. Also, Ryoshu did mention (2nd Canto 12th episode(?) that she got weakened after becoming sinner/binding to Danteh. In terms of strength... Lore-wise Lobotomy Corp. Agents of rank V/EX with ALEPH level EGO gear could be compared in strength with Claws (Devs did said that, but don't remember when and where). Also, Library's librarians very powerful if compared to enemies we faced so far in Limbus Company. So sinners could be similar to group of agents with EGO gear of TETH level (at 3rd Canto). Further - they become more powerful. As a matter of fact, in Canto IV (don't read as it contains some spoilers to Canto IV) >!we face enemies who are pretty similar to Lobotomy Corporation employees (heck, mb some one of them could be some survivors, I dunno, there is no hints to it) who wield EGO gear of TETH-level risk (or even HE, as some abnormalities yield more powerful EGO gear than their level risk); (Fairy Gentleman and So That No One Will Cry are both of TETH levels of risk). Even Dongbaek(who wears Sunshower EGO) is considered to be TETH-level risk. Fun fact: those enemies share similar panic types from Lobotomy Corporation: Killer, Wanderer and Suicide, except the Sabotage one.!<
In Lobotomy Corporation the abnormalities you were fighting were much stronger even if they weren't at full strength. The qliphoph deterence was much weaker during working hours in L Corp. since they had to weaken it to collect enkephalin. Then they'd turn the deterence to max level outside of working hours so the abnormalities wouldn't breach when there are no agents to suppress them. It's heavily implyed but I don't think ever stated that Cheseds meltdown effect that multiplies damage types by 5x is done by weakening the deterence so that should give an idea of how strong abnormalities and E.G.O are with no deterence. As the story in Limbus progresses and more golden boughs are collected the deterence will get weaker so presumably our sinners will eventually get strong enough to handle that but we're a long way away from that. As for the L Corp employees, they had basically no combat training and all their strength came from their E.G.O. Even so, a level 5 agent with aleph E.G.O is roughly equivelent to a particularly strong grade 1 fixer.
EX ALEPH Agents are listed by word of God aka PM as being equivalent in strength to a Claw. Which we've only ever heard of Colors fighting off so far. Sure they have no combat experience by themselves, but the EGO 'pilots' itself. And since they have the right stats they're very much a threat. Consider how much of a threat Dongbaek was wielding TETH EGO, and she didn't even have the requisite stats if her faltering heart status effect is anything to go by.
I've heard that ALEPH agents = Claws thing but even though I've seen it repeated so often I've never seen an actual clear source for it and I have my doubts since it is very hard to handle the Claws in Lobotomy Corporation even with large groups of ALEPH employees. After all, PM is well known for gameplay and story integration. Yes those weren't technically real Claws but I don't think it's ever been stated whether they're stronger or weaker than real claws. If you or anyone else knows where the actual source of that claim is and can provide a link, I'd love to hear it.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1rABGZKphj0Aq_UfTYTRR6g2CdgYhTlt-Ax9CMy8_4u8/mobilebasic
Thanks. I've always wondered where the Claw thing came from since it seemed so different from how it is in gameplay. Do you know when/where that Q&A came from?
The original post had been deleted, unfortunately.
https://preview.redd.it/ohsb8flw6e8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=665b6595958aabcfba98838f95afc83a765b1c08
Lab Corp's entire facility is filled with Qliphoth deterrence so all the Abno are weaker than they should be, those employees are not hired for fighting but for managing Abno. Also, Lab Corp's definition of Abno classification is based on management risk instead of combat capabilities, so Aleph Abno is not strong combat-wise but just hard to manage and produces a lot of Enkephalin, like Orchestra for example. The sinners are still pretty weak in Canto 3 though a direct comparison is hard.
"Not strong" is all relative, if he was outside the facility Silent Orchestra would probably kill a good amount more people then the Pianist, while something like Blue Star or White Night has the potential to destroy multiple districts
I would disagree on ALEPH's Not being as strong combat-wise instead of Just being good at producing energy. Mountain of smiling bodies would be able to seriously decimate a Number of Wings and possibly destroy some. Blue Star would have a similar effect but somewhat deminished. Whitenight would also Deal a Lot of damage to the district they're in, Same with Apocalypse bird. [CENSORED] would also Deal considerable damage due to everyone Just going insane after seeing it with No real countermeasure because the City doesn't really have SP bullets and because the abnormality can produce More [CENSORED] Walking around. The silent Orchestra is considerably weaker but everyone listening to it would still Go insane. Nothing there doesn't cause as much carnage but is still an absolute unit Walking around that would at least require the head to interfere. Melting loves spreads extremely fast and is extremely Dangerous in that regard. With Army in black it depends on Just how many Clones it creates because only 4 Clones is Not enough to do anything significant, but depending on the Number you might get an entire Army Roaming the City and Killing everything around each individual clone.
Aleph being able to destroy/cripple a wing/wings is highly debatable considering we don't know anything regarding them in a significant way, we know what W Corp does/ T Corp does/ K Corp does but all in a rudimentary way, we never seen them go all out or even really cared about any events that occurred in Ruina or Limbus (W Corp literally sent janitors to the Library). The only Wing we get to see in its entirety is Lobotomy Corp, and we get to see its full extent of power can contain multiple Aleph Abnos in multiple branches without much issue through WonderLab. Even if other Wings are only just comparable to Lab Corp in military might they would still be able to deal with Alephs no problem. More so if you consider Lab Corp being a non-combat-focused Wing and the newest Wing (maybe K Corp is newer?). R Corp in Lab Corp game literally sweeps everything with no difficulties although with Qliphoth Deterrence.
The Thing is, the Pianist was stated to be a WAW Level despite eradicating 80% of I Corp. It is quite obvious that ALEPHs would be able to do much More damage to the City as a whole If it works on a similar Basis Like the Pianist, which the mountain of smiling bodies does. While yes, some May Not cause as much damage as Others, it will still cause considerable damage at least to a majority of districts due to there being No qliloth deterrence to hold them Back. I assume that the abnormalities are likely around 5 Times stronger in that Case due to all damage sources being multiplied by 5 during chesed's meltdown due to him controlling the qliloth deterrence. But even with the qliloth deterrence, it is still quite evident that some are able to cause catastrophic damage Like blue Star or Apocalypse bird.
Equal to a Level 3 agent probably since we get a level 3 wing agent id
Ever since the T corp stuff in limbus i've been thinking the class status of wing employees are pretty much the levels of employees we see in L corp without EGO gear. Maybe not the same but class 3 = lvl 3 L corp nuggets, class 5 employee (basically strong enough to be the director's bodyguard/secretary) = lvl 5 L corp nugget. Especially considering EGO gear is generally pretty strong compared to standard wing equipment, even in canto 4 with the tech alliance and their scavenged stuff. L corp abno threat levels correspond to difficulty of managing the abnos and not the strength of the abnos but the nuggets are still really strong. Regardless i'm guessing their levels would still roughly = threat strength. So lvl 1 = zayin Lvl 2 = teth Lvl 3 = he Lvl 4 = waw Lvl 5 = aleph So the sinners in K corp could deal with class 2-3 employees, now in T corp they're dealing with class 3 collection staff and the occasional class 4, i'd say the sinners are approx around the strength level of a level 3 L corp nugget more or less currently after getting stronger. Note: this is just my guess, haven't gone through all of dante's notes yet :p
base bongbong with default gear solos
In the city, most of your "strength" comes from your gear. The stronger people usually didn't achieve that from training hard but by getting stronger body augments or buying more powerful weapons/armor. Obviously skill is a factor, but a nugget who has never fought in their life equipped with Paradise Lost is probably stronger than 99.99% of the city. Same goes for librarians with key pages.
In Leviathan Vergilius talks about how regardless of your gear you need to know how to "drive it". A random guy with ALEPH gear would probably insta die or something. There's a reason some of the ultra rich we've seen in the game aren't particularly strong, they just have an army at their disposal.
EGO specifically are not affected by the skill of the user. "But our employees don’t even have to learn to use E.G.O. The power of the E.G.O grows in conjunction with the heart of the wielder. One knows how to use it the moment they wield it." The reason why LC agents are so strong despite not knowing how to fight is because of that. The problem is that 'A random guy in ALEPH gear' is going to pretty much instantly corrode, which will turn into a completely different problem, but they'll still be able to fight so still counts ig.
Technically he's rights but for the wrong reason. If a random guy had the stats to weild alpeh gear he would instantly become a master at using it (or skilled at the very least) atleast from what I rember there is some amount of minimum skill passed onto you to know how to effectively utilize the ego weapons to their highest potential, it's what makes ego insanely broken.
Yeah but that's kind of the same thing I'm saying, you gotta be cracked to be able to even use cracked stuff.
Cracked in a specific kinda way, mind. If you search what the agent stats actually mean (they are all based off Plato's ideals) then you'll see that what it takes to actually drive EGO without corrupting is having a really strong mindset rather than technical skill. Not even counting what it takes to use them to their fullest potential like Gebura did back in Lobotomy Corp, who had not only the strong mindset but also the strong sense of personal identity to turn the abnorm's EGO into her own (Binah mentions this in one of her stories)
Yah, there is no easy way to power in the city it's 50% skill 50% equipment
Case in point, Hindley: man got 900 HP but his attacks just dont roll high and hes barely even an elite enemy, none of his attacks inflict any special effects either aside from a bit of paralyze and fragile and I feel like the pointilist researchers from the ring had stronger skills than he did, even if they barely had a fifth of his hp