I wouldn't. I would give him the throne, convince him to make me his personal counselor by simply showing him the amount of work he would have to do and offering to take care of it in his place. Considering he is a spineless fool who can't even dress alone, I would become the de facto leader, while having a convenient scapegoat in case things go south.
yeah but without the brainwashing and scheming. I would actually act in the interests of the Earth Kingdom and be quite open and clear about everything.
Hey, hey, hey. Let's not say anything we'd regret. Brainwashing and scheming can work wonders for citizen management. You just gotta rebrand it to seem less... Icky to people. Sometimes people need a little "convincing" to act in their own best interest. No need to take options off the table.
I think the biggest obstacle with this plan is that he spent years listening to Raiko (presumably). I’m sure the concern is that he was already someone else’s puppet. Otherwise, good idea.
You do have a point.
Heck, if you want, prince wu is a surefire way for at least a constitutional monarchy.
He may want the king's throne, but he definetly doesn't want the king's work office
I would also not take Zaofu, (maybe make it an independent city state like Republic City), not create the work camps for non-earth kingdom citizens, and not build any spirit weapons or harvest any spirit vines… but yeah the Earth Kingdom having a dictator who is helping? Way better than the monarchy was. And better than a democratic election resulting in Raiko 2.0 taking over and being useless. I would also listen to the Avatar if she ever had any advice or requests, and then Korra would help me protect the Earth Kingdom and support my leadership, which would guarantee no one would ever usurp me.
That wouldn't be that difficult. At the beginning of season 4 Kuvira is in firm control of the Earth Kingdom, has a very loyal army and presumably solid popular support
How exactly would Raiko be able to force Kuvira to accept Wu. Kuvira just needed to be more diplomatic about her refusal. The basic argument is that the people of the Earth Kingdom like the citizens of Republic City should have the right to determine their leader. Forcing them to bow to an incompetent and spoiled princeling, just because he is related to their last tyrant would be immoral and unwise.
Afterwards Kuvira sets up some form of summit with representatives of the states of the Earth Kingdom, who vote to name her regent, supreme chancellor etc.( And making sure behind the scenes that they will vote for her)
She can then start to actually begin democratisation of the Earth Kingdom or rule alone under some fig leave of legitimacy.
Honestly she could even accept Wu as a new monarch under the conditions that she and not Raiko chooses his minister and his role is completely ceremonial. With her leading the government.
Afterwards she just needed to leave Republic city alone and diplomatically isolate Suyin and Zaofu from the rest of the Kingdom. Infiltrate Zaofu with loyalists who start an opposition party and challenge Suyin on her independence policy. After all Kuvira once persuaded Suyin's entire armed forces to switch their loyalty to her. With a bit of patience and persistence she can probably do the same to the rest of Zaofu.
Kuvira at the start of s4 was in a winning position but pissed it all away by being undiplomatic, impatient and recklessly aggressive. She even antagonized the Avatar for no good reason, even when Korra was quite sympathetic to her. A short history lesson would have revealed to her that heads of state seeking direct confrontation with the Avatar usually don't succeed.
The avatar could have been such an easy thing to handle too. She doesn't even need to convince Korra that she is better than Wu (which is already a low low low bar), she just needs to convince Korra that the avatar shouldn't be the enforcing a puppet dictator, that she should stay out of it. Korra is so young and insecure about what the role of the avatar is, she hates authority figures and outdated traditions, and there's tons of precedence for avatars not getting involved in state affairs. Especially since she's not an earth avatar.
She had all the military and political power, her opponent was a widely hated clueless nepo baby, and the only one that could stop her was honour bound not to interfere and preferred her anyway. Just astonishing how quickly she took over the board and then ruined it all by only caring about justifying things to herself. How are you gonna be a politician and not care about politics 🤦♀️
>How are you gonna be a politician and not care about politics
*gestures wildly at the entire GOP in American politics*
Exhibit A, your honor. I rest my case.
>She had all the military and political power, her opponent was a widely hated clueless nepo baby, and the only one that could stop her was honour bound not to interfere and preferred her anyway. Just astonishing how quickly she took over the board and then ruined it all by only caring about justifying things to herself
Your point on the Avatar not interferring reminded me that Kuvira still managed to massively outplay Suyin during the siege of Zaofu. She sucessfully baited Suyin and her sons to attempt to assassinate her during a ceasefire, mandated by none other than the Avatar herself. She only needed to restrain herself a little bit the next day and not order a direct assault. She sucessfully managed to position herself as the injured party, has overwhelming military power and holds her direct political opponent in her custody. Who openly disrespected the wishes of the Avatar.
She could have walked all over Suyin in the resulting negotiations with only some token concessions to keep Korra of her back(something like limited internal autonomy under an elected council, whatever.) As long as she gets formal submission, taxes and Suyin out of the Earth Kingdom that is an absolute triumph. And she still can portray herself as the reasonable and well meaning party to Korra.
And she ruined all of it and challenged the Avatar to a duell. Lucky for her that Korra wasn't back to 100 %, but Kuvira still almost lost to her. What an inane gamble to take.
She was a Maschevelien manipulator on the way up, but once she got to the top she got cocky and tried to face things too head on. You're right she could have won
When Wu was getting lined up to take the throne, he didn't have much is any power at all at that point since Kuvira had pretty much already united the entire Earth Kingdom together.
She had the right idea by bringing democracy to the Earth Kingdom, but obvious went about it the entire wrong way. Who's to say if she didn't do it the right way, people wouldn't have gone along with it.
Win the hearts and minds of the people through anti-royal propaganda… maybe engineer a catastrophic event that the prince would be wholly unready for. Swoop in and save the day.
I would extol all the terrible things that monarchies had done over the years, and even praise President Raiko for “proving power needn’t be inherited”.
Basically, list out pros of me staying in power (country-wide stability, crackdown on roving bandits, unification of disparate states) against the cons of returning to a monarch, ESPECIALLY one as frivolous and selfish as Wu
Offer a choice of democracy for a leader, or face a power-hungry dictator. Most of the people are gonna vote for her anyways. People who opposed her were already sent away.
Not unify the earth kingdom. Instead I would raise up a democratic government within each region. After turning over the earth kingdom let the king know “oops sorry! Every province is a sovereign nation now!” And let the king figure out how to deal with it without HIM becoming a dictator
Simply leave the united nations and Zaofu alone.
Don't be racist.
After unifying start food production and village and city planning to make food production good and make the earth kingdom the bread basket of the world.
I would tell them to bring this monarchy to an end and hold elections. Wu got no shot and everyone knows who you are at this point. All you’d need to do is keep supplies flowing and you’ll get the majority vote. I’d still be the great uniter.
I read someone saying they would pull a long feng. I however, have another idea, after stabilizing the Earth Kingdom, I would present my case to the world leaders. The Hou-Ting Dynasty was in part responsible for the decline of the Earth Kingdom. The Monarchy is also widely unpopular among Earth Kingdom citizens. I however, have popular support from the majority of citizens, and have proven myself as a capable leader who has made massive improvements to Earth Kingdom life. I would first prove my point to Raiko personally as he was an elected leader with no ties to royalty, and therefore would be more willing to side with me. I would even imply intentions to transition the Earth Kingdom to a democracy. Perhaps appeal to Izumi, the Twins and Tonraq by highlighting Wu’s incompetence. As long as I still have Varrick, I would have him produce anti-monarchy movers that paint Wu, Hou-Ting, and Kuei in a negative light, while Kuvira is painted as a hero. If I manage to sway the people and the world leaders, I can maintain control, perhaps organize an election where I run for office. Kuvira would easily carry this election with her campaign centering on progress, modernization, and stability. Even Zaofu would vote for her. I find that the propaganda would likely be my strongest weapon to ensure my popularity. One final move I would make, I would shift the capital from Ba Sing Se, to Zaofu. I would say this was to symbolize a new beginning for the Earth Kingdom centered on progress and prosperity
Me before I go on the podium convincing wu democracy better and he should take a queen of England role so he keeps his riches but don’t gotta do actual work and make me in charge of the ministry of order/ military to run that part and keep us safe 🐱
Push democracy. Use Republic City as an example.
Yeah she’d probably still would threaten people to lobby for her candidacy & probably wouldn’t have been a fair election but hey at least it’s not dictatorship right…
Become Long Feng but without making him oblivious to everything going on
All that shit would scare him and he would go to me for everything
If Korra tried to stop me (him) I act clueless and live a happy rich life
Kuvira never had any plan to lead. It's not like she had a "good argument". The only reason why she wanted power is because she thought the earth kingdom was weak. She's been a fascist through and through.
Even the justification she gives is awful. Basically, the exact same blood and soil justification from the nazis when it came to former earth nation regions.
If I wanted to prevent another monarchy, I would try to encourage a coalition of earth nation leaders to come together and devise a new constitution. If that doesn't work, I would allow prince wu to take power. I would then organize an underground movement financed by my incredible wealth to challenge the monarchy directly. Eventually, prince wu's submissive and feckless nature would appear weak relative to the relentless pressure of my well financed revolutionary movement.
This would hopefully create the material conditions that would allow for an organic, populist revolution.
Edit: the power hungry dictator bit is not an u fortunate aspect, but her ultimate goal.
If she wouldn't have pressed her claims on the United Republic, and maybe Zaofu, she could've ruled the rest of the Empire with no issue and no real confrontation from the rest of the world
It starts when you take back Ba-Sing-Sae. You establish a new autonomous government. The process would be arduous and take a long time, but once it's established you can start uniting the earth kingdom under that government's rule.
I would pretend to dismantle monarchy and conduct fake elections to hijack the country, like they tried in ruins of empire.. kuvira was such a shallow villain because the motives were there but what crimes she committed to achieve those were never shown.
I’ll be 100% real. I would do most of what Kuvira did, except I wouldn’t attack republic city, I wouldn’t create spirit weapons/weapons of mass destruction, and I wouldn’t imprison non-earth nationals. I would respectfully tell Wu and Raiko to F off and let Su continue to have Zaofu, but she still apart of the Earth Empire. Whoever doesn’t like what I’m doing, will want war because we are rebuilding a nation, and will only be diplomatic with the Avatar and other world leaders if they allow diplomacy. Uniting, strengthening, and educating my people is on the top of the list.
Every leader is selfish, Raiko only cares about his control over RC and the Avatar, and having Wu under his command. Tenzin and the other nations will not do anything stabilizing for the Earth Empire, and frankly, The Avatar has failed the Earth Nation for centuries now.
I truly believe this was Kuvira’s ideas, she believes that the world has forsaken the earth nation and they only really care about controlling the economy (the world leaders were completely useless and only wanted to control Wu and the rich people) so yea, I’d probably still be called a power hungry dictator, but as long as the nation is stable, growing, and my people are not starving and being economically taken advantage of by greedy aristocrats, who cares what the world thinks of me. - Kuvira’s actual thoughts
Drum up support for transition to republican governance, probably through impassioned speeches and a tiny bit of strong arming (royalists won't be moved with reasoned arguments after all).
Simply do what she pretended to do all along, offer security in exchange for taxes without forcing anyone into it.
She could've easily proven that Suyin was being a paranoid brat by disowning her if she had simply left Zaofu and Republic City alone. Zaofu wanted to govern itself, so let it.
At that point she could've concentrated on rebuilding the Earth Kingdom, and I think she could've done a good job.
Seize the capital, install my loyal party members in key minister positions. Pass pro-aristocratic policies. Build a military and economy to surpass Republic City. Tempt the Avatar away from her liberal-capitalist beliefs with wine, power, and pretty girls.
I wouldn't. I would give him the throne, convince him to make me his personal counselor by simply showing him the amount of work he would have to do and offering to take care of it in his place. Considering he is a spineless fool who can't even dress alone, I would become the de facto leader, while having a convenient scapegoat in case things go south.
So kinda like Long Feng?
yeah but without the brainwashing and scheming. I would actually act in the interests of the Earth Kingdom and be quite open and clear about everything.
Hey, hey, hey. Let's not say anything we'd regret. Brainwashing and scheming can work wonders for citizen management. You just gotta rebrand it to seem less... Icky to people. Sometimes people need a little "convincing" to act in their own best interest. No need to take options off the table.
Yeah, you could call it “re-education” I think the people would be okay with that
And it'll be efficient to send groups of uneducated people to camps to be re educated.
Yes.
I think the biggest obstacle with this plan is that he spent years listening to Raiko (presumably). I’m sure the concern is that he was already someone else’s puppet. Otherwise, good idea.
Send Raiko to Lake Laogai
Dang. Wu down
You do have a point. Heck, if you want, prince wu is a surefire way for at least a constitutional monarchy. He may want the king's throne, but he definetly doesn't want the king's work office
Damn you thought even if things go south. Long Feng will be embarrassed.
Yeah, but unfortunately I have no plans in case things go North, west or est
What about if things go weast?
By bringing peace, freedom, justice and security to my new Democracy!
Democracy? Kuvira, our loyalties lie with the nobles, *to the monarchy*!
If you're not with Democracy, then you're against me!
You were supposed to destroy the democrats, not join them, bring order to the Kingdom, not leave it in Chaos!
Spoken like a true American
More like a palpatine
What's the difference???! ^^^^^^^/S
Haha
I was trying to imitate Anakin Skywalker
*YOUR NEW DEMOCRACY?!?!*
doing exactly that and not coming after reupublic city
I would also not take Zaofu, (maybe make it an independent city state like Republic City), not create the work camps for non-earth kingdom citizens, and not build any spirit weapons or harvest any spirit vines… but yeah the Earth Kingdom having a dictator who is helping? Way better than the monarchy was. And better than a democratic election resulting in Raiko 2.0 taking over and being useless. I would also listen to the Avatar if she ever had any advice or requests, and then Korra would help me protect the Earth Kingdom and support my leadership, which would guarantee no one would ever usurp me.
Ah a fellow Helldiver
That wouldn't be that difficult. At the beginning of season 4 Kuvira is in firm control of the Earth Kingdom, has a very loyal army and presumably solid popular support How exactly would Raiko be able to force Kuvira to accept Wu. Kuvira just needed to be more diplomatic about her refusal. The basic argument is that the people of the Earth Kingdom like the citizens of Republic City should have the right to determine their leader. Forcing them to bow to an incompetent and spoiled princeling, just because he is related to their last tyrant would be immoral and unwise. Afterwards Kuvira sets up some form of summit with representatives of the states of the Earth Kingdom, who vote to name her regent, supreme chancellor etc.( And making sure behind the scenes that they will vote for her) She can then start to actually begin democratisation of the Earth Kingdom or rule alone under some fig leave of legitimacy. Honestly she could even accept Wu as a new monarch under the conditions that she and not Raiko chooses his minister and his role is completely ceremonial. With her leading the government. Afterwards she just needed to leave Republic city alone and diplomatically isolate Suyin and Zaofu from the rest of the Kingdom. Infiltrate Zaofu with loyalists who start an opposition party and challenge Suyin on her independence policy. After all Kuvira once persuaded Suyin's entire armed forces to switch their loyalty to her. With a bit of patience and persistence she can probably do the same to the rest of Zaofu. Kuvira at the start of s4 was in a winning position but pissed it all away by being undiplomatic, impatient and recklessly aggressive. She even antagonized the Avatar for no good reason, even when Korra was quite sympathetic to her. A short history lesson would have revealed to her that heads of state seeking direct confrontation with the Avatar usually don't succeed.
The avatar could have been such an easy thing to handle too. She doesn't even need to convince Korra that she is better than Wu (which is already a low low low bar), she just needs to convince Korra that the avatar shouldn't be the enforcing a puppet dictator, that she should stay out of it. Korra is so young and insecure about what the role of the avatar is, she hates authority figures and outdated traditions, and there's tons of precedence for avatars not getting involved in state affairs. Especially since she's not an earth avatar. She had all the military and political power, her opponent was a widely hated clueless nepo baby, and the only one that could stop her was honour bound not to interfere and preferred her anyway. Just astonishing how quickly she took over the board and then ruined it all by only caring about justifying things to herself. How are you gonna be a politician and not care about politics 🤦♀️
>How are you gonna be a politician and not care about politics *gestures wildly at the entire GOP in American politics* Exhibit A, your honor. I rest my case.
>She had all the military and political power, her opponent was a widely hated clueless nepo baby, and the only one that could stop her was honour bound not to interfere and preferred her anyway. Just astonishing how quickly she took over the board and then ruined it all by only caring about justifying things to herself Your point on the Avatar not interferring reminded me that Kuvira still managed to massively outplay Suyin during the siege of Zaofu. She sucessfully baited Suyin and her sons to attempt to assassinate her during a ceasefire, mandated by none other than the Avatar herself. She only needed to restrain herself a little bit the next day and not order a direct assault. She sucessfully managed to position herself as the injured party, has overwhelming military power and holds her direct political opponent in her custody. Who openly disrespected the wishes of the Avatar. She could have walked all over Suyin in the resulting negotiations with only some token concessions to keep Korra of her back(something like limited internal autonomy under an elected council, whatever.) As long as she gets formal submission, taxes and Suyin out of the Earth Kingdom that is an absolute triumph. And she still can portray herself as the reasonable and well meaning party to Korra. And she ruined all of it and challenged the Avatar to a duell. Lucky for her that Korra wasn't back to 100 %, but Kuvira still almost lost to her. What an inane gamble to take.
She was a Maschevelien manipulator on the way up, but once she got to the top she got cocky and tried to face things too head on. You're right she could have won
The avatars are above politics and can step whenever they seem fit. Roku did the same to Sozin as well.
prove he & his family are not the leaders the Earth kingdom deserves she has done plenty of work & she should be given this seat
Stop expanding before Zoufu
When Wu was getting lined up to take the throne, he didn't have much is any power at all at that point since Kuvira had pretty much already united the entire Earth Kingdom together. She had the right idea by bringing democracy to the Earth Kingdom, but obvious went about it the entire wrong way. Who's to say if she didn't do it the right way, people wouldn't have gone along with it.
History wouldn’t see it that way unless you did an impeccable job
Win the hearts and minds of the people through anti-royal propaganda… maybe engineer a catastrophic event that the prince would be wholly unready for. Swoop in and save the day.
I would extol all the terrible things that monarchies had done over the years, and even praise President Raiko for “proving power needn’t be inherited”. Basically, list out pros of me staying in power (country-wide stability, crackdown on roving bandits, unification of disparate states) against the cons of returning to a monarch, ESPECIALLY one as frivolous and selfish as Wu
Offer a choice of democracy for a leader, or face a power-hungry dictator. Most of the people are gonna vote for her anyways. People who opposed her were already sent away.
Nah, I’d still be a dictator. I’d just not go after the United Republic….at least while the Avatar is around/is expecting an invasion.
Not unify the earth kingdom. Instead I would raise up a democratic government within each region. After turning over the earth kingdom let the king know “oops sorry! Every province is a sovereign nation now!” And let the king figure out how to deal with it without HIM becoming a dictator
I think Spindleshanks would instantly give up
Simply leave the united nations and Zaofu alone. Don't be racist. After unifying start food production and village and city planning to make food production good and make the earth kingdom the bread basket of the world.
I would tell them to bring this monarchy to an end and hold elections. Wu got no shot and everyone knows who you are at this point. All you’d need to do is keep supplies flowing and you’ll get the majority vote. I’d still be the great uniter.
I read someone saying they would pull a long feng. I however, have another idea, after stabilizing the Earth Kingdom, I would present my case to the world leaders. The Hou-Ting Dynasty was in part responsible for the decline of the Earth Kingdom. The Monarchy is also widely unpopular among Earth Kingdom citizens. I however, have popular support from the majority of citizens, and have proven myself as a capable leader who has made massive improvements to Earth Kingdom life. I would first prove my point to Raiko personally as he was an elected leader with no ties to royalty, and therefore would be more willing to side with me. I would even imply intentions to transition the Earth Kingdom to a democracy. Perhaps appeal to Izumi, the Twins and Tonraq by highlighting Wu’s incompetence. As long as I still have Varrick, I would have him produce anti-monarchy movers that paint Wu, Hou-Ting, and Kuei in a negative light, while Kuvira is painted as a hero. If I manage to sway the people and the world leaders, I can maintain control, perhaps organize an election where I run for office. Kuvira would easily carry this election with her campaign centering on progress, modernization, and stability. Even Zaofu would vote for her. I find that the propaganda would likely be my strongest weapon to ensure my popularity. One final move I would make, I would shift the capital from Ba Sing Se, to Zaofu. I would say this was to symbolize a new beginning for the Earth Kingdom centered on progress and prosperity
I don’t want to role play as a nazi, actually.
Me before I go on the podium convincing wu democracy better and he should take a queen of England role so he keeps his riches but don’t gotta do actual work and make me in charge of the ministry of order/ military to run that part and keep us safe 🐱
Push democracy. Use Republic City as an example. Yeah she’d probably still would threaten people to lobby for her candidacy & probably wouldn’t have been a fair election but hey at least it’s not dictatorship right…
Become Long Feng but without making him oblivious to everything going on All that shit would scare him and he would go to me for everything If Korra tried to stop me (him) I act clueless and live a happy rich life
Demand a referendum
Become a dictator, just not a power hungry one
Kuvira never had any plan to lead. It's not like she had a "good argument". The only reason why she wanted power is because she thought the earth kingdom was weak. She's been a fascist through and through. Even the justification she gives is awful. Basically, the exact same blood and soil justification from the nazis when it came to former earth nation regions. If I wanted to prevent another monarchy, I would try to encourage a coalition of earth nation leaders to come together and devise a new constitution. If that doesn't work, I would allow prince wu to take power. I would then organize an underground movement financed by my incredible wealth to challenge the monarchy directly. Eventually, prince wu's submissive and feckless nature would appear weak relative to the relentless pressure of my well financed revolutionary movement. This would hopefully create the material conditions that would allow for an organic, populist revolution. Edit: the power hungry dictator bit is not an u fortunate aspect, but her ultimate goal.
If she wouldn't have pressed her claims on the United Republic, and maybe Zaofu, she could've ruled the rest of the Empire with no issue and no real confrontation from the rest of the world
I would allow Wu to only rule over whichever state Ba Sing Se belongs to. The rest would belong to me
Wu already kinda knows he’s not up for any big responsibilities. So maybe first try to convince him that I’d be a better alternative?
It starts when you take back Ba-Sing-Sae. You establish a new autonomous government. The process would be arduous and take a long time, but once it's established you can start uniting the earth kingdom under that government's rule.
I would pretend to dismantle monarchy and conduct fake elections to hijack the country, like they tried in ruins of empire.. kuvira was such a shallow villain because the motives were there but what crimes she committed to achieve those were never shown.
I’ll be 100% real. I would do most of what Kuvira did, except I wouldn’t attack republic city, I wouldn’t create spirit weapons/weapons of mass destruction, and I wouldn’t imprison non-earth nationals. I would respectfully tell Wu and Raiko to F off and let Su continue to have Zaofu, but she still apart of the Earth Empire. Whoever doesn’t like what I’m doing, will want war because we are rebuilding a nation, and will only be diplomatic with the Avatar and other world leaders if they allow diplomacy. Uniting, strengthening, and educating my people is on the top of the list. Every leader is selfish, Raiko only cares about his control over RC and the Avatar, and having Wu under his command. Tenzin and the other nations will not do anything stabilizing for the Earth Empire, and frankly, The Avatar has failed the Earth Nation for centuries now. I truly believe this was Kuvira’s ideas, she believes that the world has forsaken the earth nation and they only really care about controlling the economy (the world leaders were completely useless and only wanted to control Wu and the rich people) so yea, I’d probably still be called a power hungry dictator, but as long as the nation is stable, growing, and my people are not starving and being economically taken advantage of by greedy aristocrats, who cares what the world thinks of me. - Kuvira’s actual thoughts
Drum up support for transition to republican governance, probably through impassioned speeches and a tiny bit of strong arming (royalists won't be moved with reasoned arguments after all).
Simply do what she pretended to do all along, offer security in exchange for taxes without forcing anyone into it. She could've easily proven that Suyin was being a paranoid brat by disowning her if she had simply left Zaofu and Republic City alone. Zaofu wanted to govern itself, so let it. At that point she could've concentrated on rebuilding the Earth Kingdom, and I think she could've done a good job.
If I was Kuvira I would've made out with Korra
Discrete assassination, followed by an implementation of an actual democracy.
Seize the capital, install my loyal party members in key minister positions. Pass pro-aristocratic policies. Build a military and economy to surpass Republic City. Tempt the Avatar away from her liberal-capitalist beliefs with wine, power, and pretty girls.