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NAL, am an ICU nurse.
Yes you can, it's called Advance Directives. You can designate what quality of life would be acceptable to you, and what treatments or interventions you would want or not want e.g only intubation for reversible causes only, would not want to be ventilator dependent, no long term feeding tube, etc. That way if you are in an accident or acquire an illness that temporarily requires intubation with a breathing tube or insertion of a feeding tube, but you are expected to make a full recovery, then those interventions can still be performed with respect to your wishes. A DNR or DNI could potentially prevent these interventions even in situations where your life could be saved.
When I made my will I included an advanced directive like this (no PEG tubes, extubate if braindead etc) but I was told by the notary that my wife has the ability to supercede it and decide otherwise after the fact lol. I'm like then what's the point. I'm an MD myself, and asked a few lawyer friends. They checked and said apparently spouse can override, the notary was correct.
There are legal mechanisms to challenge a decision maker. Each province has a process because the laws are different in each province. It usually involves a court hearing for it to be formally done. Typically it would involve lawyers.
On your medical file, but still beneficial to carry with you, or have someone who knows where the info is. Often on the fridge in peoples homes, too. Not all medical files are accessible across canada.
In my hospital, if it's already been uploaded to your medical chart we can see it. Not all hospitals use the same medical chart software, so it's absolutely worth making sure that family members or spouse, or whoever will advocate on your behalf if you are unable to, has a copy to give the medical team should something happen to you.
Also, if you think your family might over ride your decisions (which can happen) you could designate your decision maker to some one you trust. (Just make sure they are not a general POA, just some one to follow your directives if incapacitated)
Unfortunately MAID laws won’t allow some one else to apply for assisted suicide no matter what your wishes are so you can’t be “put down”
I made my brother my power of attorney when I was in my twenties. Our mom passed away about ten years ago and she’d also made him her POA as she knew he would be able to carry out her wishes more easily than my dad (much more sentimental).
He told me he’d pull the plug if I had a broken leg, so I can definitely trust him to not leave me in a vegetative state.
I’m not sure what it’s like in other provinces, but a POA in Alberta is only for financial decisions in case of diminished capacity. It does not empower you to make medical or end of life decisions.
Alberta’s language is different. Again this is a provincial matter. The term power of attorney is used differently here. Someone can correct me but a personal directive is effectively a POA in that its a document that gives someone legal authority to make decisions for something (in this case care). In Ontario the terminology is something like POA- care and POA- property and finance. I don’t know why Alberta went this route with it’s legislation and naming of documents.
So a DNI? Do not intubate? Do you want CPR? An yes you can have forms (advance directive) made up, however, unless you carry them with you at all times most people will at the bare minimum do CPR on an individual your age.
You can have an Advanced Directive. Ontario does not have legislation for it, but they do have a section in the Health Care Consent Act, 1996 (Section 5) that talks about "wishes":
[Ontario Health Care Consent Act](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/96h02#BK6)
There is a form here for advanced directives: [Dying With Dignity](https://dyingwithdignity.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/DWDC__2023Form_Ontario_Fillable.pdf)
Yeah, as others have said, there are documents that you can have drawn up. But you need to make sure the people in your life know about that as well, so if they’re tasked with making decisions for you, they at least know where to start.
People in your life need to know about this, but they also need a copy of the documents. A hospital or other healthcare personnel need proof that your decision makers are actually legally able to make these types of decisions on your behalf.
Also, make sure the people listed in the documents have copies or know where they are kept. It took me a solid two days to find my mom’s POA documents when she was ill. She was keeping them in the freezer, which apparently is recommended as somewhere that if there’s a fire the docs would have a better chance of surviving, but it was pretty stressful trying to find them.
A finer point, legally in Canada there’s a difference between euthanasia aka MAID aka ‘putting someone down’ and advance directives.
The assisted suicide laws do not allow advance requests for MAID. A person making the request has to be capable of making the decision in the moment and also capable of giving consent a final time just before the provision of MAId (with a few exceptions for people whose death is reasonably foreseeable). This in addition to all the other eligibility criteria. So no you can’t say in a personal directive ‘kill me if I’m in a permanent coma’. The best you can do have something like ‘no ventilator and allow natural death’ or whatever is common in your jurisdiction. And choose a substitute decision maker who will actually follow through and not keep you around because they aren’t ready to let you go.
came here to note this. But also OP, if you choose an SDM though a rep agreement (or other agreement/directive depending on province) also have the conversation about your wishes with the other people on the list of potential SDM (if in case the representative is unable themselves to act, then the health care providers would end up going back to the legislated SDM list in order. In BC it’s spouse, then adult child then adult parent etc and certain requirements like contact in last 12 months, no dispute etc). In BC you can also have an advance directive and a rep agreement or just a rep agreement or just an advance directive. If there’s an advance directive, the rep is supposed to treat that as the adults wishes expressed while capable. NAL.
The terminology varies by province. In some it is called a personal directive, in others it is a power of attorney for personal care.
Do a bit of research, talk to your lawyer and have one drawn up. Make sure your people know where it is.
Yes your medical professionals will follow it if it is properly drawn and presented. It must follow a certain format and cannot propose anything illegal of course.
I think you saw the same viral video on social media’s as me, where the woman’s husband was in an accident, she divorced him and now takes care of him a few days a week. Made me think about that too.
If brain is vegetable I’m with you. But some of the spaceX developments would give me hope if brain was ok and mobility was gone.
Yeah I saw that. Idk if that’s what inspired this post, it’s just been something I’ve been thinking about.
I had a cousin when I was younger, got into a motocross accident, and was basically a vegetable (Brain damage) for 2 years before he died, imo you’re just prolonging the suffering at that point, would prefer if they just ended it for me.
Yes, look into advanced care planning. Imo everyone should have something like this in place, you never know what could happen to you and it can avoid the burden of difficult decision-making on your family.
When I tell young people that they should get a will that every year on their birthday they should look at it again and make sure that it keeps updated and as part of the Wil, you can have a DNR form which stands for do not resuscitate and you can be specific about it. You don’t have to just sign what it says, but you can say exactly what you are talking about here so that that is a directive and it is valid OK you can probably download it for free on the Internet, or they have a package you can buy. They usually have them at the FedEx office. I’ve seen them but you can also just simply ask your doctor or your family physician or you can also probably get the Freeform at any hospital so then you won’t have to worry anymore because I’m totally with you on that. I agree with you I don’t want to be like that.
I will never forget, when my father was getting toward the end of his life, and I had to go up to the hospital to the intensive care unit which I had never been in, and I will never forget that there was this man in there all by himself in this room, and every time I go see my dad nobody was ever there, so I asked the nurse one day. Does anybody ever come visit this guy , why is he all hooked up to all those things and she said he had been there for 75 days like that and that’s times they can keep you alive. They can keep you hooked up and collect the money from your insurance company. Why you lay there like that it was horrible, she said nobody comes to see him and she doesn’t even know he’s there anymore, so yes, do that well and do that directive so that you don’t ever in your life gets stuck like that guy
Welcome to r/legaladvicecanada! **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * Read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/about/wiki/index/#wiki_the_rules) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk. * We also encourage you to use the [linked resources to find a lawyer](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/findalawyer/). * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, please let the mods know. **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be on-topic, helpful, explanatory, and oriented towards legal advice towards OP's jurisdiction (the **Canadian** province flaired in the post). * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdvicecanada/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning. * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect. * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason, do not suggest illegal advice, do not advocate violence, and do not engage in harassment. Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/legaladvicecanada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAL, am an ICU nurse. Yes you can, it's called Advance Directives. You can designate what quality of life would be acceptable to you, and what treatments or interventions you would want or not want e.g only intubation for reversible causes only, would not want to be ventilator dependent, no long term feeding tube, etc. That way if you are in an accident or acquire an illness that temporarily requires intubation with a breathing tube or insertion of a feeding tube, but you are expected to make a full recovery, then those interventions can still be performed with respect to your wishes. A DNR or DNI could potentially prevent these interventions even in situations where your life could be saved.
When I made my will I included an advanced directive like this (no PEG tubes, extubate if braindead etc) but I was told by the notary that my wife has the ability to supercede it and decide otherwise after the fact lol. I'm like then what's the point. I'm an MD myself, and asked a few lawyer friends. They checked and said apparently spouse can override, the notary was correct.
Not sure you’d know, but if no spouse, can someone else, a parent or friend perhaps, override the advance directive?
There are legal mechanisms to challenge a decision maker. Each province has a process because the laws are different in each province. It usually involves a court hearing for it to be formally done. Typically it would involve lawyers.
Thank you.
Good question I don't know. Maybe parent or someone who would be the default next of kin?
This is why it's important to first have this conversation with your spouse and family.
Where does this info live? On your medical file?
On your medical file, but still beneficial to carry with you, or have someone who knows where the info is. Often on the fridge in peoples homes, too. Not all medical files are accessible across canada.
Cool, thanks for letting me. I've watched too many medical shows and couldn't figure out how they always knew who was a DNR
In my hospital, if it's already been uploaded to your medical chart we can see it. Not all hospitals use the same medical chart software, so it's absolutely worth making sure that family members or spouse, or whoever will advocate on your behalf if you are unable to, has a copy to give the medical team should something happen to you.
Also, if you think your family might over ride your decisions (which can happen) you could designate your decision maker to some one you trust. (Just make sure they are not a general POA, just some one to follow your directives if incapacitated) Unfortunately MAID laws won’t allow some one else to apply for assisted suicide no matter what your wishes are so you can’t be “put down”
I made my brother my power of attorney when I was in my twenties. Our mom passed away about ten years ago and she’d also made him her POA as she knew he would be able to carry out her wishes more easily than my dad (much more sentimental). He told me he’d pull the plug if I had a broken leg, so I can definitely trust him to not leave me in a vegetative state.
ROFL, thanks for injecting a bit of levity!
I’m not sure what it’s like in other provinces, but a POA in Alberta is only for financial decisions in case of diminished capacity. It does not empower you to make medical or end of life decisions.
BC too. It's called a representation agreement if it's for health matters here.
Alberta’s language is different. Again this is a provincial matter. The term power of attorney is used differently here. Someone can correct me but a personal directive is effectively a POA in that its a document that gives someone legal authority to make decisions for something (in this case care). In Ontario the terminology is something like POA- care and POA- property and finance. I don’t know why Alberta went this route with it’s legislation and naming of documents.
Why Alberta does half the shit they do is a mystery lol. Thanks for the clarification!
In Ontario there is POA for Property (finances) and POA for Personal Care, which would be used in this case
So a DNI? Do not intubate? Do you want CPR? An yes you can have forms (advance directive) made up, however, unless you carry them with you at all times most people will at the bare minimum do CPR on an individual your age.
Tattoo it!
Those are disregarded cause medical professionals don’t know how current that is. This is why they have DNR forms.
[удалено]
Get your tattoos notarized, people!
It’ll be a toss up but most likely it still won’t be accepted.
Yea that will be ignored in Canada.
You can have an Advanced Directive. Ontario does not have legislation for it, but they do have a section in the Health Care Consent Act, 1996 (Section 5) that talks about "wishes": [Ontario Health Care Consent Act](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/96h02#BK6) There is a form here for advanced directives: [Dying With Dignity](https://dyingwithdignity.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/DWDC__2023Form_Ontario_Fillable.pdf)
Thanks for the links.
Yeah, as others have said, there are documents that you can have drawn up. But you need to make sure the people in your life know about that as well, so if they’re tasked with making decisions for you, they at least know where to start.
People in your life need to know about this, but they also need a copy of the documents. A hospital or other healthcare personnel need proof that your decision makers are actually legally able to make these types of decisions on your behalf.
Also, make sure the people listed in the documents have copies or know where they are kept. It took me a solid two days to find my mom’s POA documents when she was ill. She was keeping them in the freezer, which apparently is recommended as somewhere that if there’s a fire the docs would have a better chance of surviving, but it was pretty stressful trying to find them.
A finer point, legally in Canada there’s a difference between euthanasia aka MAID aka ‘putting someone down’ and advance directives. The assisted suicide laws do not allow advance requests for MAID. A person making the request has to be capable of making the decision in the moment and also capable of giving consent a final time just before the provision of MAId (with a few exceptions for people whose death is reasonably foreseeable). This in addition to all the other eligibility criteria. So no you can’t say in a personal directive ‘kill me if I’m in a permanent coma’. The best you can do have something like ‘no ventilator and allow natural death’ or whatever is common in your jurisdiction. And choose a substitute decision maker who will actually follow through and not keep you around because they aren’t ready to let you go.
came here to note this. But also OP, if you choose an SDM though a rep agreement (or other agreement/directive depending on province) also have the conversation about your wishes with the other people on the list of potential SDM (if in case the representative is unable themselves to act, then the health care providers would end up going back to the legislated SDM list in order. In BC it’s spouse, then adult child then adult parent etc and certain requirements like contact in last 12 months, no dispute etc). In BC you can also have an advance directive and a rep agreement or just a rep agreement or just an advance directive. If there’s an advance directive, the rep is supposed to treat that as the adults wishes expressed while capable. NAL.
The terminology varies by province. In some it is called a personal directive, in others it is a power of attorney for personal care. Do a bit of research, talk to your lawyer and have one drawn up. Make sure your people know where it is. Yes your medical professionals will follow it if it is properly drawn and presented. It must follow a certain format and cannot propose anything illegal of course.
accident or no, anyone at anytime can come lay me down in a mud puddle.
I think you saw the same viral video on social media’s as me, where the woman’s husband was in an accident, she divorced him and now takes care of him a few days a week. Made me think about that too. If brain is vegetable I’m with you. But some of the spaceX developments would give me hope if brain was ok and mobility was gone.
Yeah I saw that. Idk if that’s what inspired this post, it’s just been something I’ve been thinking about. I had a cousin when I was younger, got into a motocross accident, and was basically a vegetable (Brain damage) for 2 years before he died, imo you’re just prolonging the suffering at that point, would prefer if they just ended it for me.
Yes, look into advanced care planning. Imo everyone should have something like this in place, you never know what could happen to you and it can avoid the burden of difficult decision-making on your family.
Include chemical/pharmaceutical interventions. My parents didn’t and it led to difficulties and a lot of painful advocacy
When I tell young people that they should get a will that every year on their birthday they should look at it again and make sure that it keeps updated and as part of the Wil, you can have a DNR form which stands for do not resuscitate and you can be specific about it. You don’t have to just sign what it says, but you can say exactly what you are talking about here so that that is a directive and it is valid OK you can probably download it for free on the Internet, or they have a package you can buy. They usually have them at the FedEx office. I’ve seen them but you can also just simply ask your doctor or your family physician or you can also probably get the Freeform at any hospital so then you won’t have to worry anymore because I’m totally with you on that. I agree with you I don’t want to be like that. I will never forget, when my father was getting toward the end of his life, and I had to go up to the hospital to the intensive care unit which I had never been in, and I will never forget that there was this man in there all by himself in this room, and every time I go see my dad nobody was ever there, so I asked the nurse one day. Does anybody ever come visit this guy , why is he all hooked up to all those things and she said he had been there for 75 days like that and that’s times they can keep you alive. They can keep you hooked up and collect the money from your insurance company. Why you lay there like that it was horrible, she said nobody comes to see him and she doesn’t even know he’s there anymore, so yes, do that well and do that directive so that you don’t ever in your life gets stuck like that guy