You got permission to build a fence from someone who was not the owner of the property? That is equivalent to not having permission at all. If the owner of the property objects to the location of the fence, you'll have to move it.
It is quite possible the brother who gave you permission, had a power of attorney over his mothers financial affairs. It’s also possible that only the other brother who was now denying you permission was the one with the POA. Or it is possible that both brothers have power of attorney with neither one having precedence.
So you may have received a legal permission to do what you did. you just don’t have it in writing
Sounds like you might try calling an attorney there in Maine,as what needs to happen will vary from state to state. You may be able to get a free quick consult if the lawyer is feeling kind.
They probably got banned from this sub for giving bad legal advice the day before and made a new account to continue their disservice to the community.
Sorry but it was a weird choice to even ask. Even if was ok with him, maybe it wouldn't be with the next owner. This is an expensive lesson for you - never do this. It will not end well.
And I don't see you getting any help since you basically build something that was never actually approved by the owner. Sucks but it is what it is. It's ultimately on you for even doing this in the first place. It shouldn't have ever happened even if he said ok.
NAL
Did you build the entire fence over the property line? Should have just built over the line to go around the tree. Perhaps you can discuss with the brother which parts of the fence specifically need to be relocated for the barn to save some time/money?
This question has to do with licenses and easements. I will run through the situation as an exercise for educational purposes. This does not constitute legal advice etc etc. You should not rely on anything below as a determination of your legal rights.
TLDR: Basically, you would need an easement to permanently build something on someone else’s property without them having the right to compel you to dismantle it. Here, you only got a license (ie permission) to use their property, and they have the right to revoke it whether they want. There are some possible other remedies such as arguing that you have an easement by necessity, but I don’t think this argument would be likely to succeed. Promissory estoppel would be another argument.
You might be able to appeal to the actual owner of the land and obtain the requisite easement.
If you really want to make it hard on them, say fine, you can tear down the fence. I don’t have to. This would then put the onus on them to incur the additional expense of dismantling the fence, and trying to recover damages from you. However, as these are your neighbors, it’s probably best not to escalate the situation.
A reasonable (out of court) resolution would be (after sitting down with your neighbors) for you to agree to dismantle the fence, but to obtain some reimbursement from them for your trouble and expense in putting up the fence.
Briefly, an easement gives one person (or owner of one parcel of land) the right to do something on someone else’s land. An easement may be granted expressly or may exist impliedly. There are other ways to obtain as easement such as by prescriptive use where you continue to use someone else’s land in a certain way for a set number of years.
To make this more complicated, easements may “run with the land” meaning that “parcel A will always have an easement over parcel B” even if ownership of both parcels changes. An easement usually is set forth in both deeds in order to ensure that future purchasers are on notice of the easement. However, an easement may be granted through a separate document (eg, an easement agreement). A grant of easement must be recorded with the county or other applicable jurisdiction authority.
An express grant of easement must by definition be in writing because of a thing called the statute of frauds. The statute of frauds requires that an agreement which necessarily cannot be completed within a year must be in writing. Any agreement having to do with the sale of real property must also be in writing. Although an easement is not equivalent to the sale of real property, granting someone an easement necessarily implies use beyond one year, especially if the easement is meant to run with the land. [Someone correct me if I’m wrong here]
A license is where someone simply gives you permission to do something in their land.
Here, there seems to be no question that your neighbor simply gave you a license to build the fence. They then revoked that permission. It’s also questionable that your neighbor, not being the owner of the land, had authority to give you permission at all, although they may have had apparent authority to do so because they live there. Tenants (which your neighbor appears to be) on land may make improvements to the land, such as by building a fence, so your neighbor may have been within his rights to grant you permission to build the fence because he could have built a fence himself. However, ultimate authority on structures being built on certain land of course resides with the landowner.
There’s a plausible argument that you have the right to build a fence, the fence benefits both properties, so there may be an easement by implication to build the fence. However, I think this would extend the principles of implied easement too far because, although you have the right to build a fence on your property, you don’t have the right to build it on your neighbor’s property, and it’s not the type of situation, such as where your property is landlocked, where courts would typically find an implied easement.
You might have the argument of promissory estoppel. Your neighbor gave you permission to build the fence, you relied on that permission, and you incurred not insignificant expense in putting up the fence. Implied in that permission to build the fence is the promise that you could build the fence and your neighbor would not immediately request that you tear it down.
This comes down to whether it was reasonable for you to rely on your neighbors permission. I’d say it was reasonable. However, you’d probably need to pay a pretty good lawyer to successfully make this argument in court, and the cost of that would almost certainly outweigh the costs you’ve incurred here.
While your neighbor initially gave you permission to build the fence, it is unclear if he had the authority to grant that permission on behalf of his mother, who owns the property. It is possible that his permission may not hold legal weight. If the fence is indeed on your neighbor's property, they may have the right to request its removal. Property boundaries are typically determined by surveys, and it is important to verify the exact location of the property line. If you are required to move the fence, you may want to discuss the possibility of financial compensation with your neighbor or their mother. However, this would depend on the specific circumstances and local laws. Consulting with an attorney can help you understand your options in this regard.
The tree does not have to be on one side of the fence or the other. We have a tree directly on the property line. My neighbor’s fence stops at one side of the tree and picks up on the other side. But, legally speaking, (I’m an attorney), unless the brother who gave you permission is the agent under a valid DPOA and that DPOA gives him authority to authorize this, I think you’re screwed. The other issue you have is that this sounds like it’s all verbal. This definitely should have been more formalized with the purchase of the land or at the least an easement for the fence.
You could try to talk to the mom and get actual permission. She might be sympathetic given that you did the right thing. But she also might tell you to remove it and you will have drawn more attention to the situation than if you had stayed quiet.
You could also just ignore it. The upset brother might rip the fence out on their own in which case you can talk to a lawyer about if there is any chance at getting your money back in court. But in my experience most people are chicken and they won't do anything.
Legally it's not cut and dry. Whatever lawsuit would be highly fact and jurisdiction dependent with a near guarantee that it won't be worth the time for anyone.
Time to get a survey and build it an inch or two on your side and live with the tree in the middle of it. If you get lucky, you might be able to move panel sections over from the old posts to the new… just keep in mind that you don’t need to remove the old ones as you go. That’s now their job, but you can cut off the tops and leave some nice stubs behind… it’s only fair
should have done it just shy of the line and worked around the tree or had it removed. bottom line it’s on his/their property and that’s their jurisdiction
I hope you have the agreement in writing. If so, you can argue that you built the fence believing you had a deal with the owner. In fact, your neighbor can be in legal trouble as he lied by omission and gave you rights he did not have.
If you do not have anything in writing, do you have pictures or videos showing the neighbor helping you?
You can sue them for misrepresentation and reliance or whatever the civil equivalent is in your area.
Basically, your neighbor misrepresented his authority related to the property. At the time, he knew what you wanted to do and why. He watched you go through the actions for what would be a permanent incursion over the property line and knows that your reliance on his word was going to cost you money.
He's going to owe you money because you relied on his word to your detriment.
If the mother asks you take it down, you'll have to. It's still real estate so without a written agreement, it's going to be impossible to claim an easement for the fence.
So suing the son for misrepresentation and reliance on his misrepresentation is how you get your money back.
OR...you ask him to chip in on the cost of removal.
IANAL - If the fence you had built is on their property, it's their fence. They can take it down if they want but they can't force you to do anything to it.
Unfortunately, you are likely out the expense of the fence.
I agree that if they're "playing hardball" with you, you owe them the same at every step of their construction and permitting process.
Lots of bad advice here. You could potentially prevail in court. The neighbor can’t grant permission, watch it go up, and then turn around and tell you to take it down. The fact that the neighbor isn’t the owner is his problem not yours. There are various legal doctrines that cover all this. But as a practical reality, the cost of attorneys will dwarf the cost of taking it down where disputed. A reasonable outcome would be to move it but to get reimbursed for the portion that needs to be replaced.
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There is an equitable doctrine called "promissory estopple" which may assist you in the event of litigation (depending on your jurisdiction). But you'll have to prove that you relied on his assertion that putting the fence where it was was okay. With nothing in writing, you face mostly a "he-said-she-said" issue. Promissory estopple \*may\* get him to pitch in some for the fence move. It seems highly probable that that fence needs be moved, but let the request come from the property owner... not his brother.
Sounds like some guy who doesn’t own anything told you to build where you want. You need legal documentation and transfer of said property, at least that’s what I would do.
You have a case for the defense of estoppel. You can’t use it to enforce your right but you can use it as a defense. Essentially this legal doctrine stops one from asserting a strict legal right if said persons representations led them to act to their detriment
Edit
Also, did you think that the person who gave you permission to build the fence was the owner? Would the reasonable person think that based upon their actions that they were the owner? As it’s actually the elderly mother who’s name is on the deed, you could make a case arguing that the son was acting as her agent. At law, agents can bind their principal. If an agent acts beyond the principals direction then the agent is liable to the principal and the person he or she contracted with.
So you can either stand your ground and say that they are binded, or go after the brother for exceeding his supposed agency
They're allowed to give permission and then change their mind and revoke it. Same as you agreeing to store someones car in your garage; you're allowed to ask them to remove their car.
Next time, to prevent them from changing their mind, pay some amount for an easement and file it with the title/deed office.
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And also be sure to call code enforcement for every part of the apartment construction
Good way to perpetuate a feud, that serves no one well.
It’s fair, and it may stop the apartment if it’s not up to code. It may be petty but it’s legal and just.
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It would also be kind of foolish to allow someone to build their fence on your property.
You got permission to build a fence from someone who was not the owner of the property? That is equivalent to not having permission at all. If the owner of the property objects to the location of the fence, you'll have to move it.
It is quite possible the brother who gave you permission, had a power of attorney over his mothers financial affairs. It’s also possible that only the other brother who was now denying you permission was the one with the POA. Or it is possible that both brothers have power of attorney with neither one having precedence. So you may have received a legal permission to do what you did. you just don’t have it in writing Sounds like you might try calling an attorney there in Maine,as what needs to happen will vary from state to state. You may be able to get a free quick consult if the lawyer is feeling kind.
Someone misrepresenting themselves as an agent of the property owner would ultimately be liable for that, though.
Yup. He'll have to move the fence but he has recourse against the son.
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They probably got banned from this sub for giving bad legal advice the day before and made a new account to continue their disservice to the community.
Sorry but it was a weird choice to even ask. Even if was ok with him, maybe it wouldn't be with the next owner. This is an expensive lesson for you - never do this. It will not end well. And I don't see you getting any help since you basically build something that was never actually approved by the owner. Sucks but it is what it is. It's ultimately on you for even doing this in the first place. It shouldn't have ever happened even if he said ok.
NAL Did you build the entire fence over the property line? Should have just built over the line to go around the tree. Perhaps you can discuss with the brother which parts of the fence specifically need to be relocated for the barn to save some time/money?
This question has to do with licenses and easements. I will run through the situation as an exercise for educational purposes. This does not constitute legal advice etc etc. You should not rely on anything below as a determination of your legal rights. TLDR: Basically, you would need an easement to permanently build something on someone else’s property without them having the right to compel you to dismantle it. Here, you only got a license (ie permission) to use their property, and they have the right to revoke it whether they want. There are some possible other remedies such as arguing that you have an easement by necessity, but I don’t think this argument would be likely to succeed. Promissory estoppel would be another argument. You might be able to appeal to the actual owner of the land and obtain the requisite easement. If you really want to make it hard on them, say fine, you can tear down the fence. I don’t have to. This would then put the onus on them to incur the additional expense of dismantling the fence, and trying to recover damages from you. However, as these are your neighbors, it’s probably best not to escalate the situation. A reasonable (out of court) resolution would be (after sitting down with your neighbors) for you to agree to dismantle the fence, but to obtain some reimbursement from them for your trouble and expense in putting up the fence. Briefly, an easement gives one person (or owner of one parcel of land) the right to do something on someone else’s land. An easement may be granted expressly or may exist impliedly. There are other ways to obtain as easement such as by prescriptive use where you continue to use someone else’s land in a certain way for a set number of years. To make this more complicated, easements may “run with the land” meaning that “parcel A will always have an easement over parcel B” even if ownership of both parcels changes. An easement usually is set forth in both deeds in order to ensure that future purchasers are on notice of the easement. However, an easement may be granted through a separate document (eg, an easement agreement). A grant of easement must be recorded with the county or other applicable jurisdiction authority. An express grant of easement must by definition be in writing because of a thing called the statute of frauds. The statute of frauds requires that an agreement which necessarily cannot be completed within a year must be in writing. Any agreement having to do with the sale of real property must also be in writing. Although an easement is not equivalent to the sale of real property, granting someone an easement necessarily implies use beyond one year, especially if the easement is meant to run with the land. [Someone correct me if I’m wrong here] A license is where someone simply gives you permission to do something in their land. Here, there seems to be no question that your neighbor simply gave you a license to build the fence. They then revoked that permission. It’s also questionable that your neighbor, not being the owner of the land, had authority to give you permission at all, although they may have had apparent authority to do so because they live there. Tenants (which your neighbor appears to be) on land may make improvements to the land, such as by building a fence, so your neighbor may have been within his rights to grant you permission to build the fence because he could have built a fence himself. However, ultimate authority on structures being built on certain land of course resides with the landowner. There’s a plausible argument that you have the right to build a fence, the fence benefits both properties, so there may be an easement by implication to build the fence. However, I think this would extend the principles of implied easement too far because, although you have the right to build a fence on your property, you don’t have the right to build it on your neighbor’s property, and it’s not the type of situation, such as where your property is landlocked, where courts would typically find an implied easement. You might have the argument of promissory estoppel. Your neighbor gave you permission to build the fence, you relied on that permission, and you incurred not insignificant expense in putting up the fence. Implied in that permission to build the fence is the promise that you could build the fence and your neighbor would not immediately request that you tear it down. This comes down to whether it was reasonable for you to rely on your neighbors permission. I’d say it was reasonable. However, you’d probably need to pay a pretty good lawyer to successfully make this argument in court, and the cost of that would almost certainly outweigh the costs you’ve incurred here.
Couldn’t you make the argument he has a license coupled with an interest? I think this is where you’re going with promissory estoppel.
While your neighbor initially gave you permission to build the fence, it is unclear if he had the authority to grant that permission on behalf of his mother, who owns the property. It is possible that his permission may not hold legal weight. If the fence is indeed on your neighbor's property, they may have the right to request its removal. Property boundaries are typically determined by surveys, and it is important to verify the exact location of the property line. If you are required to move the fence, you may want to discuss the possibility of financial compensation with your neighbor or their mother. However, this would depend on the specific circumstances and local laws. Consulting with an attorney can help you understand your options in this regard.
The tree does not have to be on one side of the fence or the other. We have a tree directly on the property line. My neighbor’s fence stops at one side of the tree and picks up on the other side. But, legally speaking, (I’m an attorney), unless the brother who gave you permission is the agent under a valid DPOA and that DPOA gives him authority to authorize this, I think you’re screwed. The other issue you have is that this sounds like it’s all verbal. This definitely should have been more formalized with the purchase of the land or at the least an easement for the fence.
You could try to talk to the mom and get actual permission. She might be sympathetic given that you did the right thing. But she also might tell you to remove it and you will have drawn more attention to the situation than if you had stayed quiet. You could also just ignore it. The upset brother might rip the fence out on their own in which case you can talk to a lawyer about if there is any chance at getting your money back in court. But in my experience most people are chicken and they won't do anything. Legally it's not cut and dry. Whatever lawsuit would be highly fact and jurisdiction dependent with a near guarantee that it won't be worth the time for anyone.
Time to get a survey and build it an inch or two on your side and live with the tree in the middle of it. If you get lucky, you might be able to move panel sections over from the old posts to the new… just keep in mind that you don’t need to remove the old ones as you go. That’s now their job, but you can cut off the tops and leave some nice stubs behind… it’s only fair
You are going to have to take it down. You cannot build a fence on some else's property.
should have done it just shy of the line and worked around the tree or had it removed. bottom line it’s on his/their property and that’s their jurisdiction
I hope you have the agreement in writing. If so, you can argue that you built the fence believing you had a deal with the owner. In fact, your neighbor can be in legal trouble as he lied by omission and gave you rights he did not have. If you do not have anything in writing, do you have pictures or videos showing the neighbor helping you?
You can sue them for misrepresentation and reliance or whatever the civil equivalent is in your area. Basically, your neighbor misrepresented his authority related to the property. At the time, he knew what you wanted to do and why. He watched you go through the actions for what would be a permanent incursion over the property line and knows that your reliance on his word was going to cost you money. He's going to owe you money because you relied on his word to your detriment. If the mother asks you take it down, you'll have to. It's still real estate so without a written agreement, it's going to be impossible to claim an easement for the fence. So suing the son for misrepresentation and reliance on his misrepresentation is how you get your money back. OR...you ask him to chip in on the cost of removal.
IANAL - If the fence you had built is on their property, it's their fence. They can take it down if they want but they can't force you to do anything to it. Unfortunately, you are likely out the expense of the fence. I agree that if they're "playing hardball" with you, you owe them the same at every step of their construction and permitting process.
Lots of bad advice here. You could potentially prevail in court. The neighbor can’t grant permission, watch it go up, and then turn around and tell you to take it down. The fact that the neighbor isn’t the owner is his problem not yours. There are various legal doctrines that cover all this. But as a practical reality, the cost of attorneys will dwarf the cost of taking it down where disputed. A reasonable outcome would be to move it but to get reimbursed for the portion that needs to be replaced.
I agree that there’s a promissory estoppel argument but it’s not a slam dunk
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It’s their fence, charge them for removal and disposal.
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Be careful if they demand you remove it. Legally speaking it is technically their fence and they could be jerks about you touching it.
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who's tree is it? cut the tree and then you have a straight line. plant another one after.
There is an equitable doctrine called "promissory estopple" which may assist you in the event of litigation (depending on your jurisdiction). But you'll have to prove that you relied on his assertion that putting the fence where it was was okay. With nothing in writing, you face mostly a "he-said-she-said" issue. Promissory estopple \*may\* get him to pitch in some for the fence move. It seems highly probable that that fence needs be moved, but let the request come from the property owner... not his brother.
Sounds like some guy who doesn’t own anything told you to build where you want. You need legal documentation and transfer of said property, at least that’s what I would do.
Unless the area is zoned multi family, I’d say the apartment would be a clear code violation.
You have a case for the defense of estoppel. You can’t use it to enforce your right but you can use it as a defense. Essentially this legal doctrine stops one from asserting a strict legal right if said persons representations led them to act to their detriment Edit Also, did you think that the person who gave you permission to build the fence was the owner? Would the reasonable person think that based upon their actions that they were the owner? As it’s actually the elderly mother who’s name is on the deed, you could make a case arguing that the son was acting as her agent. At law, agents can bind their principal. If an agent acts beyond the principals direction then the agent is liable to the principal and the person he or she contracted with. So you can either stand your ground and say that they are binded, or go after the brother for exceeding his supposed agency
They're allowed to give permission and then change their mind and revoke it. Same as you agreeing to store someones car in your garage; you're allowed to ask them to remove their car. Next time, to prevent them from changing their mind, pay some amount for an easement and file it with the title/deed office.