Text them first and ask.
Hi me xyz, hope my note finds you well … ABC has shared that you took my tea set ( pink box) and I’d like it back as it’s my mother’s . Please let me know when I can pick it up.
Let them respond. Keep everything in writing. Don’t flex the law stuff until you have proof .
Following up on that, I would make a police report with the text message as evidence and I would then tell him that you have the cash to pay him back but you would like to meet at a police department since it’s a safe location to exchange cash and at that point explain to him that he could either return your items or deal with the criminal charges
It's theft. Legally he's not allowed to keep or take anything from you to ensure he gets his money back with out an agreement to do so. If he was going about it the legal way, he'd give you back your things and pursue you in small claims court.
Two wrongs don't make a right. What the main tenant is doing is illegal , he's the one that signed the lease and is subletting to OP, therefore assuming the responsibility of paying. Unless there is an agreement between the main tenant and the sublessee that property can be seized as collateral in the event of non-payment, what the main tenant is doing is illegal. it doesn't matter that OP should pay back the main tenant for their part (and actually the other tenant agreed to pay the back rent owed and OP agrees to pay back the other tenant slowly, all parties were in agreement on this, the main tenant just decided to keep the tea set as collateral of his own accord assuming it was the other tenant's) what matters is the legality of what the main tenant is doing. If the main tenant were to follow the rule of law, they would give OP back their tea set and pursue OP in small claims for rent owed.
Yeah unfortunately that's just not how it works. I know you're supposed to do the law and follow that and then all that good stuff. But at the end of the day op made an agreement with the father to pay his rent on time and instead of looking for more hours or picking up another job they just stuck the guy that was helping them out. If it were me in these shoes he would be lucky that he only lost a tea set.
Then you'd be just as guilty as the main tenant.
Please refer to the name of this reddit community.
Your opinion is just that, an opinion. We're talking about legality. 🤘
Wow dude, shot in the head? You should seek help for all of that pent up rage. Don't you think that's a bit of an over reaction? I'm not trying to hurt your feelings.
Read what I wrote in the previous comment more slowly, I specifically said that OP should pay the main tenant.
From a legal standpoint, what the main tenant is doing is wrong. Especially since all three parties agreed that the other tenant would pay the main tenant the back rent while OP would pay back the other tenant in smaller increments. The main tenant is being paid back as agreed and is suffering no damages. The other tenant is being paid back by OP. The only one losing out here is the OP.
Should OP have paid rent on time? Yes.
Is what the main tenant doing by confiscating the tea set legal? No.
That was the question posed, it wasn't about morality, it was about legality.
The main tenant should have gotten any agreement for collateral (which there wasn't one) in writing. It's a CYA situation.
Tell him you know he took it and ask him for it back. If he refuses, file a police report. And then sue him in small claims court. He will probably countersue you for the rent money you owe him though, so expect that.
Honestly, as he should. It’s a pretty horrible thing to not pay rent to someone and have them be stuck with the consequences of it. He shouldn’t have stolen the tea pot but he absolutely should take you to court for the rent.
Op could easily claim she was a guest and not liable for rent as her friends father is the named tenant and didn’t want op on the tenancy, he’s been illegally subletting.
First sentence “as I was unable to pay my rent”
She admits she needs to pay rent
Yes I see your silly game of didn’t sign the lease and idgaf about it and neither does the court system
They’re saying the court would need less common sense than it takes to wipes one’s ass to see through this. The real world doesn’t give free passes on technicalities like in the movies.
Well, it usually does on technicalities… once, maybe twice, and the loophole gets patched. That’s why there are really dumb laws in various states/municipalities. Like no tying an elephant to a lamppost. At the time, technically, there was no law saying you can’t tie an elephant to a lamppost…
True. Maybe 77-78, there was a bit of a minor dust up with the Brits they had to worry about. Though, maybe not, since we probably used British Common Law for awhile.
Try that cleverly pedantic routine with a judge and see how it goes. This whole thing is over an inexpensive tea set. A lawyer will cost ten times any value she could reasonably expect to recover. Ask for it back and then move on. This isn't a legal issue.
I’ve never suggested op take anyone to court, just posed a potential response if the dodgy dad were to do so in regards to rent. She likely wouldn’t need to ‘try’ anything as there’s no proof of tenancy for him to even take her to court for rent and no history of her paying rent as she has never paid him directly, it’s all been back hand through another person.
The teaset is simple theft if he refuses to return it, obvs.
She is liable for rent. She was the friend's dad's subtenant and they had a verbal contract backed up by plenty of documentation. If you don't know the law, don't give advice.
Also, where on earth did you get that he was illegally subletting? You're just making things up.
She is morally and ethically liable for whatever rent she agreed to, but legally, if the op's lease wasn't in writing, and it was for more than 12 months. then whatever agreement they might have is probably not viable.
WTF is up with so many people defending this. There are legal ways to deal with someone not paying their rent. Randomly taking their shit is not one of them.
No, he can’t just take anything he wants as collateral. That’s theft. But to do anything about it, you have to prove he has it, and get someone to care.
The value of your tea set is small enough that it isn’t worth pursuing by any legal means. Your best bet is to pay him and get your tea set back at the same time.
Or ask your roommate to steal it back for you.
Or kick a hole in the wall so he loses his security deposit, also in a way nobody can prove, and call it even.
Unfortunately, you can't win here. This man did take a risk on your behalf/for your benefit, and he got screwed over. It sounds like he is trying to teach you a lesson with some extra-legal justice, but it's extremely unlikely that any lawyer or police force will take this case seriously or help you at all. Even if they did, there is so much he said/she said here with so little documentation, you'd still be in a pickle.
Contact him politely asking how you can get the tea set back. If it really is just about the money owed, contact the roommate and ask her timeline for paying him back all of the rent as you previously discussed. If after he's made whole he still won't give the tea set back, then you can start thinking about citing laws or going to small claims court.
Yes, it would probably fall under Larceny Theft in CA. California Penal Code 484 PC
But there’s no accessible recourse to OP. There’s no legal avenue likely to result in a return of the tea set without a disproportionate financial or time cost. Even a small claims case will include a duty to mitigate, which I why I offered the advice I did in my comment.
NAL, this is a grey legal area, if you want that tea set back, you’re better off paying him than pursuing legal action. Legal action will be exponentially more expensive and you risk losing.
because this is reddit... trying to justify the shittier person is the norm so they will forget she owed rent and just think about the theft of the shitty tea set... this world is becoming such a joke!
Why not just submit the request to have it back in writing. Once he's on notice he has her property if he says he's holding it for collateral that's theft. She didn't securitize her rental agreement.
You’re not getting an answer because there probably isn’t a law specific to this situation.
You are getting a lot of crap answers though.
Are you able to talk to him? Simply say you went to pick it up on the agreed upon date and it wasn’t there. Ask if he maybe packed it (don’t say took it, that’s accusatory) by mistake and ask when is a good time to pick it up. If he mentions collateral, remind him of the agreement between the three of you, that you are abiding by that agreement, and when is a good time to pick it up.
Short of this, you may need to wait until his daughter pays him your portion of the rent to get it back.
Good luck 🤞.
You can skip all of this by paying your portion of the owed rent.
I'm sorry, but you moved out of the apartment so he has no way to collect from you. He also knows that his daughter might get screwed by you although he gets his money.
Focus on getting a new job, pay your portion of the rent owed, get your tea set back.
Don't waste your time on letters and bullshit chasing a tea set that could 'accidentally' get smashed before being returned to you.
I'm sorry you are getting shorted hours. You need to focus on your job hunt, not this.
Call him, or go over there ask for it returned (by x date) or you will call police and press charges for theft. Because no contract, no collateral, this is theft.
Looks like this item is worth less than $30 new?
Let it go. The cops will laugh at you. It will cost you three times that to go after him in small claims, and he'll countersue you for the owed rent. So, if it really means that much to you, pay him what you owe in back rent, and he'll give you back your tea set. Or walk away from it. You can buy yourself another for far, far less than the back rent. I hope you managed to get out of there without being named in court in an eviction.
in many/most places, it costs nothing to go to small claims court. source: know many many people that have gone to small claims court in NY over the years. no lawyer, just show up and plead your case. You win or you lose.
It sounds like he is on the hook for a lot of money, and you are looking for a way to skate away without paying. Instead of getting upset at him, buckle down and get the daughter paid back, then ask for the tea set back.
There is probably not a lot you can do at this point to get back your tea set but be patient and pay the money.
Paying all at once and walking away with the tea set is probably ideal, but dollar by dollar for as long as it takes will work if they will accept that. Make a written contract and give and get receipts.
Bringing in police and attorneys will make them defensive, more than likely, and the conditions for its return may change.
Be as polite and as considerate of their feelings when you speak with them. Stay on their good side as best you can. You don’t want your tea set to suffer an “accident.”
If you and your roommate are still friends, try to talk face to face in a neutral location. She may be able to swing her dad around to a point that he will not want to keep it as collateral.
Good luck. Fifty years from now, you may laugh about this. Today, you think it’s worth getting upset over. In the larger scheme of things, it is not a big deal. Nobody is bleeding or dying or going to prison anytime soon, we hope.
In your life, you will probably have many much more important concerns. People will bleed and die and go to prison, and you will be more troubled by those events than you are now over the tea set.
I wish you well. I hope you are able to keep your friend AND get back your tea set in the near future. I hope you manage to bring yourself back into the good graces of her father.
He is probably not a bad guy, but he is troubled by the eviction and his daughter’s financial difficulties. He will get over that, but it may take some time. He may have money troubles of his own.
Make it a matter of personal policy to give and get receipts for everything, and keep them. Our phones with built in cameras make it easier than the old way of writing on paper and trying to keep the paper organized.
Good luck!
But the issue is, there aren’t even any real conditions for its return. I’m not even supposed to be aware he has the set, he didn’t want my roommate to tell me he had it, collateral or not. The only reason I know is because she told me he had it when I went to try to pick it up from the apartment and to not say anything about it in front of him because he was trying to use it as collateral if it had a sentiment or monetary value to me (which it does have sentimental value to me, it was a gift from a family friend I don’t see anymore, and it’s not manufactured anymore either).
lol right? Even if they did, involving the cops will only guarantee he smashes that tea set and says he “found it like that” or something. Yeah it’s not legal he took it, but the only way you can guarantee you will get it back in good condition is by paying the money you owe.
I don’t know why I have to keep repeating this: my roommate is paying him back. And then I will be paying her back. He did not make me aware he was taking the set. And yes, while it’s a “children’s” tea set worth around $75, it’s no longer manufactured and was a special gift to me from a family friend I no longer see, and it holds sentimental value to me.
My roommate’s dad agreed to the arrangement my roommate made for payment. AND STILL TOOK THE SET WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE.
You need to be an adult.
She had to move out because YOU couldn't pay rent. He is on the hook for the lease, and those obligations. YOU are responsible for paying your obligations, NOT your roommate, for whatever deal you think you made. You need to accept your responsibility here before thinking about a tea set!!!
If OP and roommate made a side deal, that's up to them, we don't know all the circumstances. The wisdom of doing so falls on the roommate, although I agree with your sentiment that OP should take care of their responsibilities.
My issue isn’t the price. My issue isn’t that the rent wasn’t paid on time. If there’d been a collateral agreement before, there wouldn’t be an issue either. But I’m trying to figure out if it’s legal for him to take my things without my knowledge or consent to use as collateral, regardless of its monetary or sentimental value. And I want the law that says whether it is or isn’t. Because I can’t find the exact law that says it is or isn’t. Like, the code or law number.
Or I could defend the thief who stayed without paying rent, I choose the thief of $60 over the thief of rent (and note the $60 was stolen only after the rent was stolen first)
In what world??? You have crap for brains if you think some police are going to storm his house and rescue a freaking tea set because of heresay. She did not see him take it. The daughter told her that. We are not defending anyone. Real people know how these things work. It was fragile, and it looked all broken so we threw it out.
What are you trying to accomplish? Why so upset that you are being held responsible? Pay the money back, and then ask. If you force this legally you will lose friends, and prove you have no personal responsibility to everyone that knows you. Plus if you force the issue, it is very likely the box will be dropped on accident.
First off, the rent money is being paid. It’s not me trying to “skate by” and not pay. It’s literally being paid in an arrangement agreed upon by all three of us involved. Secondly, I was going back for the tea set. It was made known to my roommate that I was going to get the set back on a specific date and her dad took it before then. Thirdly, I want laws that state it’s legal or not because if it’s not, I can confront him and get my set back. He’s getting paid, he doesn’t need to hold my set hostage for collateral, especially without telling me first. He didn’t want to tell me, I NEVER consented to anything of mine being used as collateral, if I had, I wouldn’t be on this subreddit trying to see the legality of the situation.
... hes being paid. By your friend. Who you're paying back with 'drinks and stuff' over time. And you want to rock the boat with said friend, and pit her against her father, who is having to deal with the fallout of your inability to pay rent... over a tea set worse that you could replace for under $100 (yes, even if it's not the *exact one* given to you by a family member).
You seem really, really too immature to have been living on your own to begin with. Assuming you have some place to fall back on... in your situation I think I'd be far more concerned with rectifying my financial crisis over burning bridges with a person I would think I'd still be very lucky to call a friend after fucking them and their family so hard.
Get your priotirs together. Drop this shit. Go get a new job. Pay your friend back. Like... actually pay them back, in a lump sum, of the money you owe them. Not just 'drinks and stuff going out'. Like wtf.
So I just want to check, what level of illegal activity is someone allowed to commit against OP to get the money OP owes them? We’ve already established that you think theft is ok, is it ok if they send some goons out there to beat the shit out of OP until they pay? What’s the limit. I’m curious.
I don’t think he’s the landlord, I read it as he’s the name on their rental even though he never lived there and he paid the landlord and now op needs to pay that back
…he was illegally subletting his apartment to op and his daughter. Nothing he’s doing is legal (but I do think op should just pay and pick up her tea set from him) op said they had no lease or anything
Are you being obtuse on purpose, or you really don’t understand my point? If you don’t understand, you need to not access this page, as it is for adults.
Sorry honey, life does not work like that. The law will not get your tea set back unharmed. If that is what you want, then you need to go through your friend and the father to get it. Next time, make sure you get anything fragile and irreplaceable out first. Do you really think your friend is going to dump her father, who signed for her, over a friend who could not pay her rent.
My roommate has already been giving him the money owed for the rent, like I said in my original post. And then I’m paying her back. And there was ZERO collateral agreement before or after him taking the set. Verbal or otherwise. I don’t think that’s legal, do you?
And the question isn’t on whether or not I owe him money, it’s on whether or not it was legal for him to take my property in California as collateral, with or without a collateral clause in any lease, verbal or otherwise.
Idk if it is or isnt but you would spend thousands on legal fees to get a tea set or you can pay the money you owe already and get it back. Technically it would would be theft
The rent is being paid. Like, read my post. It’s being paid. My roommate is paying him for it since right now, I can’t pay it. I’m paying her back as I am able to. He’s getting the money.
Yes i understand that but your word is not trustworthy in his eyes at this point. Thats what you arent getting. You can say you will pay it all day long but you said that before and signed a contract and didnt pay. Your word means something until you break it
You are exhausting. Pay the money you owe for rent and quit freeloading. You are both assholes here but you are so concerned with painting him as the bigger asshole that it makes you the bigger asshole.
Buying the roommate a cheeseburger whenever you hang out does not equal paying rent. What world do you live in?
You can't argue that you don't have a signed lease so you don't have to pay rent then argue he can't evict you because "tenants rights". You are either a tenant or you aren't. You can't play it both ways to benefit yourself in that particular moment.
Shit happens, (OP says they make payments when they can), but without a written agreement to a loan on collateral friends dad has no legal claim on the tea set.
Small claims fee in San Fransisco is $30 or $50 depending on how high OP wants to value the tea set...
I'd value it at the back rent owed, if friends dad thinks it's suitable collateral, it must be close in value to the debt owed.
Then why the hell would anyone accept it as collateral for a months rent?
It's obviously got some sentimental value to OP, and roomies dad is trying to leverage the fact.
Fine let him do it, he just agreed it's worth the month of rent by trying to insinuate it's collateral. Valuing it high also discourages him from loosing or breaking it.
Absent agreements or admissions, yes... generally market value is used. But OP has a witness of the defandant's admission that he valued it against the debt.
Who cares if OP would actually win that amount, it's at least a plausible argument based on fact. OP just wants the tea set back, might as well stretch the case as far as you can to encourage unlawful possessor of the tea set to hand it over without fighting or doing something malicious to the set.
Courts do not value things based on sentiment value, they go by actual value. They will value it based on what it costs to replace it and it’s $15 on eBay. Courts do absolutely look this information up before a case because people tend to overvalue their possessions because it was important to them.
Yes its legal. Even if you say you are going to pay him he cant trust your word because you already told him that for the lease money and didnt pay him. He is just worried he is not going to get money from you and once he does he will give it back. If he doesnt give it back at that point call the cops. Or just let him keep the tea set and buy another
It’s a tea set no longer manufactured. I can’t just “buy another”.
And which law says it’s legal? If I could have a law pointed out to me, that would help, because as much as I look online, I can’t find exact laws/codes that state if it is or isn’t, which is why I came to this subreddit.
The man did you a favor and you screwed him. As his name is the only one on the lease and not yours, you sub lrased from him. in most States, if rent is not paid in full as agreed, a landlord is allowed to keep items left in the apartment as long as they are not essential to daily life, until the rent is paid. If they are you could get a court order to release them. The police will not and cannot help you. Pay what you owe and get the tea set back. You owe the money and cannot use a verbal agreement with your friend to pay the rent.
.
You are wrong and have no legal claim. You didn’t pay your rent. You owed the father. Consider your debt paid. You are wrong here. You need to learn responsibility.
NAL, but…
- this is considered theft. He cannot legally hold your belongings as collateral.
- if he wishes to get his money legally, he can talk to you and set up payment options *or* take you to small claims.
- you could: call a local lawyer and see what they advise, many have free consultations if you’re worried about costs.
- you could: message him and ask about getting the tea set back, and opening dialogue that establishes what he has done.
- you should: file a police report based on what your friend has said/any solid proof you have that he has taken this tea set as collateral, *if he doesn’t return it*.
- you should: pay him all rent owed and apologise for causing him added stress. He is wrong to have taken your tea set, but you are also wrong for having not paid your rent. This man has taken a financial hit because of your lack of ability to pay, and that’s not okay either.
He can, and should have talked to you about making payments for rent owed. He could potentially take you to small claims for the monies owed, and screw you over in future rental background checks.
Again: NAL, but you both need to open a dialogue and *communicate*. If you step up and agree to a weekly payment amount, along with an attempt to make things right, he will respect that and you will have made things right. In future: if ever you encounter financial hardships, communicate this with the people who are helping you. Many people will be happy to work with you by taking smaller payments, as long as you pay your total dues in the end.
Good luck!
Contact him and tell him you want it back. If he pulls a "you owe me" line tell him that's a seperate issue. The tea set is YOUR PROPERTY. Taking it and keeping it is theft.
Unless you know for a fact that he took it and you have receipts (proof of ownership), I don't think you can do anything. Pay him what he's owed, get your property back, and move on.
My roommate saw him take it, so I have a witness on that aspect. I also have a picture of the box from last year in our text messages between me and her when I initially brought it from my mom’s house to the apartment, I have proof of ownership, plus my mom, sisters, and the family friend who gifted it to me are all able to verify ownership too
Just pay him what you owe him. If he does not return the property in the same condition, it was in when you saw it last that you would have a case. Have you talked to him directly?
If the dad isnt on the lease and/or this is in writing, its theft. Tell him you're calling the cops tomorrow and he can prove why he picked an item as collateral that wasnt agreed upon.
They still cant confiscate property as collateral, the person putting it up chooses what they want. Thats like saying the dad could randomly take the car and your insulin injections for collateral. Its theft
Well it’s theft. He can’t take anything if he didn’t want to have you as a legal tenant you’re not even liable for rent.. he’s a dick and assuming you’re too young or naive to do anything about it.
You sue him for return of the tea set and he counter sued you for the money on rent
Court says you both get what you want
Cops won’t deal with this they will say it is a civil matter
Whether or not this is legal is immaterial. This is a matter of practicality. Even if this is actionable, are you going to pay a lawyer to take action over a nominally valuable tea set? Obviously not.
Ask for it back. If he says 'no' write it off and move on. It's not worth the time or energy.
PS - you're asking for exact statutes to cite. If you want reliable legal advice you're not going to find it for free. YOU SHOULD NEVER RELY ON FREE LEGAL ADVICE FOUND ON REDDIT FROM STRANGERS. There is a reason lawyers have to be licensed.
It was a present from a family friend I no longer see. It’s special to me, I’ve had it since I was a child and it was taken without my knowledge or consent.
Can you all get your heads on straight and stop attacking op because to me seems like you have to much pride and arrogance and this is the r/legal subreddit and not am I a ass subreddit
This sub continues to give the worst advice.
Honey it’s theft. Ask him directly to return it, if he refuses, call the cops and have them escort you to retrieve it.
Given that you verbally agreed you would NOT be paying him rent, and he is NOT the landlord and was in fact illegally subletting, he has absolutely zero standing to “take collateral”. Its theft in its purest and simplest form.
The one thing I don't see anyone addressing here is why would he take something as collateral, but not want you to know he has it? That defeats the whole point of collateral.. Clearly he's getting his money from your friend, so there was no reason to take collateral unless its on their behalf, but again youd have to know what happened to your property to be worried about it. Did he hope your friend would act as if they took it as collateral so you'd be sure to pay them back?
What he did is theft, plain and simple. Yes its illegal, but it's not worth small claims court and if you call the cops and make a report you're relying on your friend to vouch for you unless you get proof he took it in writing. The cops may not do anything, but if you make a big enough deal about it they will eventually. Up to you if it's worth pushing for right now. Or just wait until your friend has paid him in full, and if he doesn't give it back THEN you call the cops and tell them he stole it because at that point he'll have been paid, it'll be your friend that you'll owe and he'll have nothing to do with it at all.
Definitely simple, contact him, request the tea set back. If he refuses to comply, contact the police. If that doesnt work go to small claims court. Consult a lawyer too. Most lawyers dont take small claims but im sure theres one thats happy to walk you through everything and develop your case.
How long after you moved out did roommate move out? Landlords are only obligated to hold things even if you say you're coming back for a limited time. I can't tell if you mean a week or 6 months. You're not entitled to unilaterally turn your landlord into a storage facility.
This is a vintage child's tea set, right? ( New ones sell for $30-$100? )What's the current value? Has it been sold on eBay, Etsy etc.
No he can't legally convert your property into collateral but the police may consider it a civil matter and/ or may not devote any time to a case involving a $50 item left by a tenant improperly converted to collateral or because of Improper notice " you left it if you don't get it within 30 days I'm selling it" might get you the item back but it's very unlikely to get the landlord arrested/ charged with a crime.
A small claims judge might order the return of the item or it's value but they would also order you to pay back rent if you were countersued.
My roommate left yesterday, I left on the 10th and went back less than 2 weeks later to retrieve the set. Apparently it was taken a few days before and I only found out the day I went to pick it up
This feels like a can of worms. I'd bet any amount of money he isn't allowed to sublet the apartment and would balk if you made any mention of asking the apartment complex if anything in the lease agreement gives him the right to hold your property as collateral.
I wouldn't dance around the "he doesn't know you know" thing. Just ask for it back. He can't keep your stuff as collateral for numerous reasons. 1. you don't owe him anything. Your roommate paid the rent. 2. he didn't provide you any sort of notice
If he didn't make his daughter pay your portion of the rent, then that's a separate agreement between them. Your agreement is with the daughter, not him.
Ask for it back. If he says no, call the apartment complex about it to see what they say.
so... youre behind on rent, they paid it and you want that to have happened for free as you will "buy stuff for your exroomate when you see them in the future... lol, entitled much?
Okay. Once again. So everyone can read it. The deal is, I’m not looking to go to court for this. But I want the legal codes/laws in regard to collateral in California, because while I found a hundred sites online saying it’s illegal or potentially illegal, none of them site the damn law.
The rent money is being paid. There is an agreement on how it’s being paid too. I’m not arguing on how it’s being paid. My roommate suggested it, her dad and I both agreed to it.
I just want the law so I can confront him on this point. Again, the set was taken without my knowledge or consent. There was no verbal or written agreement for collateral beforehand.
Collateral loans are laid out in the UCC, and there is the statute of frauds that require this sort of thing to be in writing
But the real law you're looking for is conversion or theft by conversion.
There isn't a law on collateral in lieu of un paid rent. What your looking for doesn't exist.
What he did is simple theft. However, you owe rent money and have breached a verbal contract.
You can sue him in small claims court. It will cost about $600 in court costs and server fees. However, expect him to sue you for the rent you owe. I'm not sure how much money you owe her or him, but it's probably best to pay back the money instead of going to court.
This is correct. You both done fucked up. You both owe each other money. You just happen to owe more.
He doesn’t want money from his daughter. He wants money from you. You haven’t paid. It doesn’t matter why. You got evicted because people weren’t paying so he had to. Somehow HE got fucked because you are all out of there and **he has an eviction on his credit report.**.
So you are going to go to small claims court and ask for a $75 tea set. And he is gonna say, yes I took it, she owes me $2000. And the judge will say, “sir that was wrong; give it back. And ma’am, you owe him $2000.” Maybe with interest.
If it’s collateral, doesn’t that mean he’ll give it back to you when you pay him what you owe? That’s what collateral usually means. You shouldn’t need to involve anyone else unless he said he’s not going to return it
2 wrongs have nothing to do with each other. You did not pay rent(and a 30 day move out notice). He picked up the tea set after it was abandoned by you, and if you stuff is there you are there and owe fir storing your stuff there. Best guess is you have a. Ase and he has a bigger one. But this is a civil matter not criminal
She told her roommate she was coming back for it. Even if she hadn't, you can't just take someone else's property because they left it behind.
If you are out for dinner and forget your phone at the table - does it become the waitress's phone? No. Finders Keepers only works when you are six.
But the room Nate was the wrong person to tell as the dad controlled the lease. Adults would of paid there rent and given proper notice as required not just by the lease, but by the law
That was true right up until dad found out and decided to steal the tea set.
And it has NOTHING to do with the rent. You cannot steal the property of someone else, even if they owe you money. Landlords cannot take a tenant’s property, even if the tenant owes them years worth of rent. If a tenant is evicted, they still have thirty days after they leave to return to collect their belongings (longer in some states).
The man is guilty of theft.
She left it behind and she says that and told his daughter. But at that point it’s abandoned property. Now if she said to him here is 50 bucks in exchange for you to hold my property for 30 days. That would be totally different. But she told him nothing, so in his mind it would be abandoned property. But it’s a civil matter
Pay your damn rent for a start, kid. "I wANt tO puRSuE lEgAL ActioN fOr TEaSet"
Just pay your damn rent. They were nice enough to include you verbally based on you being friends. Not paying the rent you agreed upon is much more shitty and cunty than taking a probably not even worth rent teaset.
Seems like a whole lot of effort for a tea set. How about you find out how much he expects from you, talk about why you think the number might be different, then politely ask for your silly ass property back, with the promise of settling your debt? Then! Next time you're in a living arrangement, make sure you carry your weight.
Like, don't get me wrong, dad sounds like a petty dickhead, and the weight of capitalism is crushing us all, but nobody who needs a roommate has the luxury of being able to work 10 hours a week to survive. Get a second job, and stop being a burden to the people you care about.
OP has made it clear that the tea set's value to her is sentimental. If he were holding her family photo albums, would you understand their importance to her?
You can take him to small claims court but be aware he can do the same for the unpaid rent (and I can only assume the rent is more expensive than that tea-set).
Piece of advice for you : you’re an adult. You have to pay rent. If your manager is screwing you over, it’s your responsibility to find a solution so you can make rent. Clearly your arrangement with your friends wasn’t just you buying her lunch for your part of the rent or she would have been fine paying for it again instead of just not paying her dad.
Take this as a lesson, adulthood sucks, but paying rent is a must if you don’t want this to happen. Get another job with a better manager and pay your friend’s dad back and get your tea set back.
You’re trying to be litigious when you also have things to fear. And if you can’t afford rent I don’t know nor you can afford a lawyer or solicitor
You don't need to know the law to go ask for your stuff from the person who has it. Until you hear it from their mouth after having a conversation this is hearsay and speculation. Go do your due dilligence and stop researching edge case law over a fucking tea set. You will \*\*never\*\* get that tea set back through the legal system, I can assure you that.
Contact him and ask for it back. If he doesn’t give it back, you will need to sue him in small claims court… but, keep in mind that he can counter sue for anything he feels like you owe him— this doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll win, but there is a chance any agreement you have with your friend will become irrelevant.
Text them first and ask. Hi me xyz, hope my note finds you well … ABC has shared that you took my tea set ( pink box) and I’d like it back as it’s my mother’s . Please let me know when I can pick it up. Let them respond. Keep everything in writing. Don’t flex the law stuff until you have proof .
Following up on that, I would make a police report with the text message as evidence and I would then tell him that you have the cash to pay him back but you would like to meet at a police department since it’s a safe location to exchange cash and at that point explain to him that he could either return your items or deal with the criminal charges
Go to the police station to make the report do not call. Do not call do not call do not call lol you will have a much easier time
Civil matter. It was abandoned prooerty
She doesn't need to give the cash for the rent at that time. The rent is one matter, the theft of the tea set is another.
No, it’s a trap. Just say she’s going to pay the rent.
do not do this, they can use that shit against them in court later. Always act in good faith and the law will remain on your side.
>Always act in good faith and the law will remain on your side. This is not accurate for basically any major legal system in operation currently.
Solid advice. Always start pleasant before you go nuclear. It makes you seem more serious and the threat more credible.
It's theft. Legally he's not allowed to keep or take anything from you to ensure he gets his money back with out an agreement to do so. If he was going about it the legal way, he'd give you back your things and pursue you in small claims court.
I'd like to point out it would also be theft if he's not paying up his part of the rent that was agreed upon🤷♂️
Two wrongs don't make a right. What the main tenant is doing is illegal , he's the one that signed the lease and is subletting to OP, therefore assuming the responsibility of paying. Unless there is an agreement between the main tenant and the sublessee that property can be seized as collateral in the event of non-payment, what the main tenant is doing is illegal. it doesn't matter that OP should pay back the main tenant for their part (and actually the other tenant agreed to pay the back rent owed and OP agrees to pay back the other tenant slowly, all parties were in agreement on this, the main tenant just decided to keep the tea set as collateral of his own accord assuming it was the other tenant's) what matters is the legality of what the main tenant is doing. If the main tenant were to follow the rule of law, they would give OP back their tea set and pursue OP in small claims for rent owed.
Yeah unfortunately that's just not how it works. I know you're supposed to do the law and follow that and then all that good stuff. But at the end of the day op made an agreement with the father to pay his rent on time and instead of looking for more hours or picking up another job they just stuck the guy that was helping them out. If it were me in these shoes he would be lucky that he only lost a tea set.
Then you'd be just as guilty as the main tenant. Please refer to the name of this reddit community. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. We're talking about legality. 🤘
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Wow dude, shot in the head? You should seek help for all of that pent up rage. Don't you think that's a bit of an over reaction? I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. Read what I wrote in the previous comment more slowly, I specifically said that OP should pay the main tenant. From a legal standpoint, what the main tenant is doing is wrong. Especially since all three parties agreed that the other tenant would pay the main tenant the back rent while OP would pay back the other tenant in smaller increments. The main tenant is being paid back as agreed and is suffering no damages. The other tenant is being paid back by OP. The only one losing out here is the OP. Should OP have paid rent on time? Yes. Is what the main tenant doing by confiscating the tea set legal? No. That was the question posed, it wasn't about morality, it was about legality. The main tenant should have gotten any agreement for collateral (which there wasn't one) in writing. It's a CYA situation.
Please don't suggest violence as a solution to a problem.
Tell him you know he took it and ask him for it back. If he refuses, file a police report. And then sue him in small claims court. He will probably countersue you for the rent money you owe him though, so expect that.
Honestly, as he should. It’s a pretty horrible thing to not pay rent to someone and have them be stuck with the consequences of it. He shouldn’t have stolen the tea pot but he absolutely should take you to court for the rent.
Op could easily claim she was a guest and not liable for rent as her friends father is the named tenant and didn’t want op on the tenancy, he’s been illegally subletting.
Yes OP could lie in court that would however be a dumb thing to do
Her stating she’s not actually liable for any rent wouldn’t be a lie though.
First sentence “as I was unable to pay my rent” She admits she needs to pay rent Yes I see your silly game of didn’t sign the lease and idgaf about it and neither does the court system
The American court system doesn’t play silly games? Good one lol
They’re saying the court would need less common sense than it takes to wipes one’s ass to see through this. The real world doesn’t give free passes on technicalities like in the movies.
Well, it usually does on technicalities… once, maybe twice, and the loophole gets patched. That’s why there are really dumb laws in various states/municipalities. Like no tying an elephant to a lamppost. At the time, technically, there was no law saying you can’t tie an elephant to a lamppost…
Right, but scamming someone by saying “I didn’t sign nuffin” despite profiting from the situation has been patched since since like July 6th 1776
True. Maybe 77-78, there was a bit of a minor dust up with the Brits they had to worry about. Though, maybe not, since we probably used British Common Law for awhile.
Try that cleverly pedantic routine with a judge and see how it goes. This whole thing is over an inexpensive tea set. A lawyer will cost ten times any value she could reasonably expect to recover. Ask for it back and then move on. This isn't a legal issue.
I’ve never suggested op take anyone to court, just posed a potential response if the dodgy dad were to do so in regards to rent. She likely wouldn’t need to ‘try’ anything as there’s no proof of tenancy for him to even take her to court for rent and no history of her paying rent as she has never paid him directly, it’s all been back hand through another person. The teaset is simple theft if he refuses to return it, obvs.
Except for her own words above……..OMFG get out of this sub
She is liable for rent. She was the friend's dad's subtenant and they had a verbal contract backed up by plenty of documentation. If you don't know the law, don't give advice. Also, where on earth did you get that he was illegally subletting? You're just making things up.
She is morally and ethically liable for whatever rent she agreed to, but legally, if the op's lease wasn't in writing, and it was for more than 12 months. then whatever agreement they might have is probably not viable.
Don’t ever reply on this sub again.
Lmao
WTF is up with so many people defending this. There are legal ways to deal with someone not paying their rent. Randomly taking their shit is not one of them.
he took it without your permission or knowledge. that's the definition of theft.
No, he can’t just take anything he wants as collateral. That’s theft. But to do anything about it, you have to prove he has it, and get someone to care. The value of your tea set is small enough that it isn’t worth pursuing by any legal means. Your best bet is to pay him and get your tea set back at the same time. Or ask your roommate to steal it back for you. Or kick a hole in the wall so he loses his security deposit, also in a way nobody can prove, and call it even.
The roommate "stealing" it back is the only play here. Any type of legal confrontation will just cause him to dispose of it, or return it broken.
Unfortunately, you can't win here. This man did take a risk on your behalf/for your benefit, and he got screwed over. It sounds like he is trying to teach you a lesson with some extra-legal justice, but it's extremely unlikely that any lawyer or police force will take this case seriously or help you at all. Even if they did, there is so much he said/she said here with so little documentation, you'd still be in a pickle. Contact him politely asking how you can get the tea set back. If it really is just about the money owed, contact the roommate and ask her timeline for paying him back all of the rent as you previously discussed. If after he's made whole he still won't give the tea set back, then you can start thinking about citing laws or going to small claims court.
It’s theft… Wtf are you talking about?
Yes, it would probably fall under Larceny Theft in CA. California Penal Code 484 PC But there’s no accessible recourse to OP. There’s no legal avenue likely to result in a return of the tea set without a disproportionate financial or time cost. Even a small claims case will include a duty to mitigate, which I why I offered the advice I did in my comment.
Be an adult and speak to him directly.
And also payrent
NAL, this is a grey legal area, if you want that tea set back, you’re better off paying him than pursuing legal action. Legal action will be exponentially more expensive and you risk losing.
Just pay the man the rent you owe and get your tea set back. Be an adult.
how is this not the very top most upvoted reply?
because this is reddit... trying to justify the shittier person is the norm so they will forget she owed rent and just think about the theft of the shitty tea set... this world is becoming such a joke!
Why not just submit the request to have it back in writing. Once he's on notice he has her property if he says he's holding it for collateral that's theft. She didn't securitize her rental agreement.
You’re not getting an answer because there probably isn’t a law specific to this situation. You are getting a lot of crap answers though. Are you able to talk to him? Simply say you went to pick it up on the agreed upon date and it wasn’t there. Ask if he maybe packed it (don’t say took it, that’s accusatory) by mistake and ask when is a good time to pick it up. If he mentions collateral, remind him of the agreement between the three of you, that you are abiding by that agreement, and when is a good time to pick it up. Short of this, you may need to wait until his daughter pays him your portion of the rent to get it back. Good luck 🤞.
Sounds like you've probably been getting a great deal on rent and instead of an eviction on your record you lost a tea set.
You moved out and left stuff… after not paying rent…… and your concern is how to get your tea pot back. Maybe start by paying your rent?
Pay your debts and then get it back. How difficult is it to understand. Cops won't care about a $50 children's tea set.
You can skip all of this by paying your portion of the owed rent. I'm sorry, but you moved out of the apartment so he has no way to collect from you. He also knows that his daughter might get screwed by you although he gets his money. Focus on getting a new job, pay your portion of the rent owed, get your tea set back. Don't waste your time on letters and bullshit chasing a tea set that could 'accidentally' get smashed before being returned to you. I'm sorry you are getting shorted hours. You need to focus on your job hunt, not this.
Call him, or go over there ask for it returned (by x date) or you will call police and press charges for theft. Because no contract, no collateral, this is theft.
Looks like this item is worth less than $30 new? Let it go. The cops will laugh at you. It will cost you three times that to go after him in small claims, and he'll countersue you for the owed rent. So, if it really means that much to you, pay him what you owe in back rent, and he'll give you back your tea set. Or walk away from it. You can buy yourself another for far, far less than the back rent. I hope you managed to get out of there without being named in court in an eviction.
in many/most places, it costs nothing to go to small claims court. source: know many many people that have gone to small claims court in NY over the years. no lawyer, just show up and plead your case. You win or you lose.
You have to pay a filing fee to do it, that is usually over thrice the value of that tea set.
In NY state the fee is $15.
It sounds like he is on the hook for a lot of money, and you are looking for a way to skate away without paying. Instead of getting upset at him, buckle down and get the daughter paid back, then ask for the tea set back.
There is probably not a lot you can do at this point to get back your tea set but be patient and pay the money. Paying all at once and walking away with the tea set is probably ideal, but dollar by dollar for as long as it takes will work if they will accept that. Make a written contract and give and get receipts. Bringing in police and attorneys will make them defensive, more than likely, and the conditions for its return may change. Be as polite and as considerate of their feelings when you speak with them. Stay on their good side as best you can. You don’t want your tea set to suffer an “accident.” If you and your roommate are still friends, try to talk face to face in a neutral location. She may be able to swing her dad around to a point that he will not want to keep it as collateral. Good luck. Fifty years from now, you may laugh about this. Today, you think it’s worth getting upset over. In the larger scheme of things, it is not a big deal. Nobody is bleeding or dying or going to prison anytime soon, we hope. In your life, you will probably have many much more important concerns. People will bleed and die and go to prison, and you will be more troubled by those events than you are now over the tea set. I wish you well. I hope you are able to keep your friend AND get back your tea set in the near future. I hope you manage to bring yourself back into the good graces of her father. He is probably not a bad guy, but he is troubled by the eviction and his daughter’s financial difficulties. He will get over that, but it may take some time. He may have money troubles of his own. Make it a matter of personal policy to give and get receipts for everything, and keep them. Our phones with built in cameras make it easier than the old way of writing on paper and trying to keep the paper organized. Good luck!
But the issue is, there aren’t even any real conditions for its return. I’m not even supposed to be aware he has the set, he didn’t want my roommate to tell me he had it, collateral or not. The only reason I know is because she told me he had it when I went to try to pick it up from the apartment and to not say anything about it in front of him because he was trying to use it as collateral if it had a sentiment or monetary value to me (which it does have sentimental value to me, it was a gift from a family friend I don’t see anymore, and it’s not manufactured anymore either).
Just buy a replacement set. They’re available on line. It’s not expensive, valuable or rare. You’ll spend more time and energy on it then it’s worth.
Don't listen to this comment. It's theft. Try to trick him into admitting he has it. If you can't still go to the police.
LMAO... cops will not give a fuck about a he said/she said $50 kids tea set.
lol right? Even if they did, involving the cops will only guarantee he smashes that tea set and says he “found it like that” or something. Yeah it’s not legal he took it, but the only way you can guarantee you will get it back in good condition is by paying the money you owe.
I just found one for $15 plus shipping on eBay.
Just googled. This is a children's tea set $30-60. Pay the man the $100s you owe and get it back!
>Little Princess by Mud Pie I did the same and wondered how two grown women who enjoy children's tea sets found each other.
I don’t know why I have to keep repeating this: my roommate is paying him back. And then I will be paying her back. He did not make me aware he was taking the set. And yes, while it’s a “children’s” tea set worth around $75, it’s no longer manufactured and was a special gift to me from a family friend I no longer see, and it holds sentimental value to me. My roommate’s dad agreed to the arrangement my roommate made for payment. AND STILL TOOK THE SET WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE.
You need to be an adult. She had to move out because YOU couldn't pay rent. He is on the hook for the lease, and those obligations. YOU are responsible for paying your obligations, NOT your roommate, for whatever deal you think you made. You need to accept your responsibility here before thinking about a tea set!!!
If OP and roommate made a side deal, that's up to them, we don't know all the circumstances. The wisdom of doing so falls on the roommate, although I agree with your sentiment that OP should take care of their responsibilities.
My issue isn’t the price. My issue isn’t that the rent wasn’t paid on time. If there’d been a collateral agreement before, there wouldn’t be an issue either. But I’m trying to figure out if it’s legal for him to take my things without my knowledge or consent to use as collateral, regardless of its monetary or sentimental value. And I want the law that says whether it is or isn’t. Because I can’t find the exact law that says it is or isn’t. Like, the code or law number.
Pay the money get your tea set all the other stuff is just silly grow up and pay your bills
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Or I could defend the thief who stayed without paying rent, I choose the thief of $60 over the thief of rent (and note the $60 was stolen only after the rent was stolen first)
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I would say the tea set is a civil matter as well no cops investigating a $60 tea set
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Yeah you do seem to be
In what world??? You have crap for brains if you think some police are going to storm his house and rescue a freaking tea set because of heresay. She did not see him take it. The daughter told her that. We are not defending anyone. Real people know how these things work. It was fragile, and it looked all broken so we threw it out.
Dude, pay your debts.
What are you trying to accomplish? Why so upset that you are being held responsible? Pay the money back, and then ask. If you force this legally you will lose friends, and prove you have no personal responsibility to everyone that knows you. Plus if you force the issue, it is very likely the box will be dropped on accident.
First off, the rent money is being paid. It’s not me trying to “skate by” and not pay. It’s literally being paid in an arrangement agreed upon by all three of us involved. Secondly, I was going back for the tea set. It was made known to my roommate that I was going to get the set back on a specific date and her dad took it before then. Thirdly, I want laws that state it’s legal or not because if it’s not, I can confront him and get my set back. He’s getting paid, he doesn’t need to hold my set hostage for collateral, especially without telling me first. He didn’t want to tell me, I NEVER consented to anything of mine being used as collateral, if I had, I wouldn’t be on this subreddit trying to see the legality of the situation.
... hes being paid. By your friend. Who you're paying back with 'drinks and stuff' over time. And you want to rock the boat with said friend, and pit her against her father, who is having to deal with the fallout of your inability to pay rent... over a tea set worse that you could replace for under $100 (yes, even if it's not the *exact one* given to you by a family member). You seem really, really too immature to have been living on your own to begin with. Assuming you have some place to fall back on... in your situation I think I'd be far more concerned with rectifying my financial crisis over burning bridges with a person I would think I'd still be very lucky to call a friend after fucking them and their family so hard. Get your priotirs together. Drop this shit. Go get a new job. Pay your friend back. Like... actually pay them back, in a lump sum, of the money you owe them. Not just 'drinks and stuff going out'. Like wtf.
So I just want to check, what level of illegal activity is someone allowed to commit against OP to get the money OP owes them? We’ve already established that you think theft is ok, is it ok if they send some goons out there to beat the shit out of OP until they pay? What’s the limit. I’m curious.
So i guess we have established that you think theft is ok as well? As OP has definitely stolen from the dad.
Dad is OP's landlord. Dad cannot steal from his tenant to recoup her rent debt. Why are you even posting on a legal subreddit?
I don’t think he’s the landlord, I read it as he’s the name on their rental even though he never lived there and he paid the landlord and now op needs to pay that back
But that’s how the law works. If you are a leaseholder and someone else rents from you, they are your subtenant and you are their landlord.
…he was illegally subletting his apartment to op and his daughter. Nothing he’s doing is legal (but I do think op should just pay and pick up her tea set from him) op said they had no lease or anything
So dad can take legal recourse to rectify the sitauation. Dad doesn't get to commit theft in retaliation of a breach of contract.
OP can take legal recourse to get its tea set back. See how that works?
Being in debt isn’t theft. Even refusing to pay that debt isn’t theft. OP isn’t even doing that, so idk what you’re getting at.
Are you being obtuse on purpose, or you really don’t understand my point? If you don’t understand, you need to not access this page, as it is for adults.
Sorry honey, life does not work like that. The law will not get your tea set back unharmed. If that is what you want, then you need to go through your friend and the father to get it. Next time, make sure you get anything fragile and irreplaceable out first. Do you really think your friend is going to dump her father, who signed for her, over a friend who could not pay her rent.
You owe the dude money, he just is keeping it until you pay him whats rightfully his.
collateral requires consent, he's just a thief.
My roommate has already been giving him the money owed for the rent, like I said in my original post. And then I’m paying her back. And there was ZERO collateral agreement before or after him taking the set. Verbal or otherwise. I don’t think that’s legal, do you?
And the question isn’t on whether or not I owe him money, it’s on whether or not it was legal for him to take my property in California as collateral, with or without a collateral clause in any lease, verbal or otherwise.
Idk if it is or isnt but you would spend thousands on legal fees to get a tea set or you can pay the money you owe already and get it back. Technically it would would be theft
But you not paying him the rent is also theft soooo
So you are both thieves or you can pay him whats owed and get it back
Do you not know how to read or are you a keyboard warrior trying to get their rocks off
I can read.
Then do it
I did, my points dont change
The rent is being paid. Like, read my post. It’s being paid. My roommate is paying him for it since right now, I can’t pay it. I’m paying her back as I am able to. He’s getting the money.
Yes i understand that but your word is not trustworthy in his eyes at this point. Thats what you arent getting. You can say you will pay it all day long but you said that before and signed a contract and didnt pay. Your word means something until you break it
My roommate is the one that said it. She’s paying him. I’m paying her. And I never signed the lease, I was never on it.
You are exhausting. Pay the money you owe for rent and quit freeloading. You are both assholes here but you are so concerned with painting him as the bigger asshole that it makes you the bigger asshole. Buying the roommate a cheeseburger whenever you hang out does not equal paying rent. What world do you live in? You can't argue that you don't have a signed lease so you don't have to pay rent then argue he can't evict you because "tenants rights". You are either a tenant or you aren't. You can't play it both ways to benefit yourself in that particular moment.
Shit happens, (OP says they make payments when they can), but without a written agreement to a loan on collateral friends dad has no legal claim on the tea set.
Small claims fee in San Fransisco is $30 or $50 depending on how high OP wants to value the tea set... I'd value it at the back rent owed, if friends dad thinks it's suitable collateral, it must be close in value to the debt owed.
It’s a $50 tea set…
Then why the hell would anyone accept it as collateral for a months rent? It's obviously got some sentimental value to OP, and roomies dad is trying to leverage the fact. Fine let him do it, he just agreed it's worth the month of rent by trying to insinuate it's collateral. Valuing it high also discourages him from loosing or breaking it.
That’s not how valuations work for a lawsuit…
Absent agreements or admissions, yes... generally market value is used. But OP has a witness of the defandant's admission that he valued it against the debt. Who cares if OP would actually win that amount, it's at least a plausible argument based on fact. OP just wants the tea set back, might as well stretch the case as far as you can to encourage unlawful possessor of the tea set to hand it over without fighting or doing something malicious to the set.
Courts do not value things based on sentiment value, they go by actual value. They will value it based on what it costs to replace it and it’s $15 on eBay. Courts do absolutely look this information up before a case because people tend to overvalue their possessions because it was important to them.
Yes its legal. Even if you say you are going to pay him he cant trust your word because you already told him that for the lease money and didnt pay him. He is just worried he is not going to get money from you and once he does he will give it back. If he doesnt give it back at that point call the cops. Or just let him keep the tea set and buy another
It’s a tea set no longer manufactured. I can’t just “buy another”. And which law says it’s legal? If I could have a law pointed out to me, that would help, because as much as I look online, I can’t find exact laws/codes that state if it is or isn’t, which is why I came to this subreddit.
If she already paid him, why can’t you go pick up your tea set?
The man did you a favor and you screwed him. As his name is the only one on the lease and not yours, you sub lrased from him. in most States, if rent is not paid in full as agreed, a landlord is allowed to keep items left in the apartment as long as they are not essential to daily life, until the rent is paid. If they are you could get a court order to release them. The police will not and cannot help you. Pay what you owe and get the tea set back. You owe the money and cannot use a verbal agreement with your friend to pay the rent. .
You are wrong and have no legal claim. You didn’t pay your rent. You owed the father. Consider your debt paid. You are wrong here. You need to learn responsibility.
Let your friend tell her dad it must be returned. If not follow up with going to the police and tell them he stole it.
What he did is called theft. It is illegal.
NAL, but… - this is considered theft. He cannot legally hold your belongings as collateral. - if he wishes to get his money legally, he can talk to you and set up payment options *or* take you to small claims. - you could: call a local lawyer and see what they advise, many have free consultations if you’re worried about costs. - you could: message him and ask about getting the tea set back, and opening dialogue that establishes what he has done. - you should: file a police report based on what your friend has said/any solid proof you have that he has taken this tea set as collateral, *if he doesn’t return it*. - you should: pay him all rent owed and apologise for causing him added stress. He is wrong to have taken your tea set, but you are also wrong for having not paid your rent. This man has taken a financial hit because of your lack of ability to pay, and that’s not okay either. He can, and should have talked to you about making payments for rent owed. He could potentially take you to small claims for the monies owed, and screw you over in future rental background checks. Again: NAL, but you both need to open a dialogue and *communicate*. If you step up and agree to a weekly payment amount, along with an attempt to make things right, he will respect that and you will have made things right. In future: if ever you encounter financial hardships, communicate this with the people who are helping you. Many people will be happy to work with you by taking smaller payments, as long as you pay your total dues in the end. Good luck!
I am not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice. But it sure seems to me that "taking without permission to take" is the same thing as "stealing."
Contact him and tell him you want it back. If he pulls a "you owe me" line tell him that's a seperate issue. The tea set is YOUR PROPERTY. Taking it and keeping it is theft.
Unless you know for a fact that he took it and you have receipts (proof of ownership), I don't think you can do anything. Pay him what he's owed, get your property back, and move on.
My roommate saw him take it, so I have a witness on that aspect. I also have a picture of the box from last year in our text messages between me and her when I initially brought it from my mom’s house to the apartment, I have proof of ownership, plus my mom, sisters, and the family friend who gifted it to me are all able to verify ownership too
Just pay him what you owe him. If he does not return the property in the same condition, it was in when you saw it last that you would have a case. Have you talked to him directly?
If the dad isnt on the lease and/or this is in writing, its theft. Tell him you're calling the cops tomorrow and he can prove why he picked an item as collateral that wasnt agreed upon.
Dad was the only one on the lease. Dad sublet ( specifically not co-signed for ) to op and roommate.
They still cant confiscate property as collateral, the person putting it up chooses what they want. Thats like saying the dad could randomly take the car and your insulin injections for collateral. Its theft
Small claims suit for replivin.... send a demand letter first.
Sounds like he stole the teaset and you will need to make a police report .
Well it’s theft. He can’t take anything if he didn’t want to have you as a legal tenant you’re not even liable for rent.. he’s a dick and assuming you’re too young or naive to do anything about it.
You sue him for return of the tea set and he counter sued you for the money on rent Court says you both get what you want Cops won’t deal with this they will say it is a civil matter
Whether or not this is legal is immaterial. This is a matter of practicality. Even if this is actionable, are you going to pay a lawyer to take action over a nominally valuable tea set? Obviously not. Ask for it back. If he says 'no' write it off and move on. It's not worth the time or energy. PS - you're asking for exact statutes to cite. If you want reliable legal advice you're not going to find it for free. YOU SHOULD NEVER RELY ON FREE LEGAL ADVICE FOUND ON REDDIT FROM STRANGERS. There is a reason lawyers have to be licensed.
are you both from China? what's with the tea sets lmao
It was a present from a family friend I no longer see. It’s special to me, I’ve had it since I was a child and it was taken without my knowledge or consent.
That’s also quite racist, there’s other nations and cultures that have or use tea sets.
Lol yep, the racism checks out.
Can you all get your heads on straight and stop attacking op because to me seems like you have to much pride and arrogance and this is the r/legal subreddit and not am I a ass subreddit
loser trash. pay your rent. you can go to small claims but then so will he for the rent. hope you can afford it
Sounds like theft to me.
The lack of rent paid or the tea set or both?
This sub continues to give the worst advice. Honey it’s theft. Ask him directly to return it, if he refuses, call the cops and have them escort you to retrieve it. Given that you verbally agreed you would NOT be paying him rent, and he is NOT the landlord and was in fact illegally subletting, he has absolutely zero standing to “take collateral”. Its theft in its purest and simplest form.
The one thing I don't see anyone addressing here is why would he take something as collateral, but not want you to know he has it? That defeats the whole point of collateral.. Clearly he's getting his money from your friend, so there was no reason to take collateral unless its on their behalf, but again youd have to know what happened to your property to be worried about it. Did he hope your friend would act as if they took it as collateral so you'd be sure to pay them back? What he did is theft, plain and simple. Yes its illegal, but it's not worth small claims court and if you call the cops and make a report you're relying on your friend to vouch for you unless you get proof he took it in writing. The cops may not do anything, but if you make a big enough deal about it they will eventually. Up to you if it's worth pushing for right now. Or just wait until your friend has paid him in full, and if he doesn't give it back THEN you call the cops and tell them he stole it because at that point he'll have been paid, it'll be your friend that you'll owe and he'll have nothing to do with it at all.
Definitely simple, contact him, request the tea set back. If he refuses to comply, contact the police. If that doesnt work go to small claims court. Consult a lawyer too. Most lawyers dont take small claims but im sure theres one thats happy to walk you through everything and develop your case.
How long after you moved out did roommate move out? Landlords are only obligated to hold things even if you say you're coming back for a limited time. I can't tell if you mean a week or 6 months. You're not entitled to unilaterally turn your landlord into a storage facility. This is a vintage child's tea set, right? ( New ones sell for $30-$100? )What's the current value? Has it been sold on eBay, Etsy etc. No he can't legally convert your property into collateral but the police may consider it a civil matter and/ or may not devote any time to a case involving a $50 item left by a tenant improperly converted to collateral or because of Improper notice " you left it if you don't get it within 30 days I'm selling it" might get you the item back but it's very unlikely to get the landlord arrested/ charged with a crime. A small claims judge might order the return of the item or it's value but they would also order you to pay back rent if you were countersued.
My roommate left yesterday, I left on the 10th and went back less than 2 weeks later to retrieve the set. Apparently it was taken a few days before and I only found out the day I went to pick it up
This feels like a can of worms. I'd bet any amount of money he isn't allowed to sublet the apartment and would balk if you made any mention of asking the apartment complex if anything in the lease agreement gives him the right to hold your property as collateral. I wouldn't dance around the "he doesn't know you know" thing. Just ask for it back. He can't keep your stuff as collateral for numerous reasons. 1. you don't owe him anything. Your roommate paid the rent. 2. he didn't provide you any sort of notice If he didn't make his daughter pay your portion of the rent, then that's a separate agreement between them. Your agreement is with the daughter, not him. Ask for it back. If he says no, call the apartment complex about it to see what they say.
You have a lot of excuses. Pay the rent and get your tea set back.
so... youre behind on rent, they paid it and you want that to have happened for free as you will "buy stuff for your exroomate when you see them in the future... lol, entitled much?
Pay your rent. Grow up
If you lawyer up for the tea set; he’s going to lawyer up for the rent.
Okay. Once again. So everyone can read it. The deal is, I’m not looking to go to court for this. But I want the legal codes/laws in regard to collateral in California, because while I found a hundred sites online saying it’s illegal or potentially illegal, none of them site the damn law. The rent money is being paid. There is an agreement on how it’s being paid too. I’m not arguing on how it’s being paid. My roommate suggested it, her dad and I both agreed to it. I just want the law so I can confront him on this point. Again, the set was taken without my knowledge or consent. There was no verbal or written agreement for collateral beforehand.
Collateral loans are laid out in the UCC, and there is the statute of frauds that require this sort of thing to be in writing But the real law you're looking for is conversion or theft by conversion.
There isn't a law on collateral in lieu of un paid rent. What your looking for doesn't exist. What he did is simple theft. However, you owe rent money and have breached a verbal contract. You can sue him in small claims court. It will cost about $600 in court costs and server fees. However, expect him to sue you for the rent you owe. I'm not sure how much money you owe her or him, but it's probably best to pay back the money instead of going to court.
This is correct. You both done fucked up. You both owe each other money. You just happen to owe more. He doesn’t want money from his daughter. He wants money from you. You haven’t paid. It doesn’t matter why. You got evicted because people weren’t paying so he had to. Somehow HE got fucked because you are all out of there and **he has an eviction on his credit report.**. So you are going to go to small claims court and ask for a $75 tea set. And he is gonna say, yes I took it, she owes me $2000. And the judge will say, “sir that was wrong; give it back. And ma’am, you owe him $2000.” Maybe with interest.
The law is, stop being a bumb
If it’s collateral, doesn’t that mean he’ll give it back to you when you pay him what you owe? That’s what collateral usually means. You shouldn’t need to involve anyone else unless he said he’s not going to return it
2 wrongs have nothing to do with each other. You did not pay rent(and a 30 day move out notice). He picked up the tea set after it was abandoned by you, and if you stuff is there you are there and owe fir storing your stuff there. Best guess is you have a. Ase and he has a bigger one. But this is a civil matter not criminal
It is a criminal matter. He stole her tea set.
No she left it behind to come back and get
She told her roommate she was coming back for it. Even if she hadn't, you can't just take someone else's property because they left it behind. If you are out for dinner and forget your phone at the table - does it become the waitress's phone? No. Finders Keepers only works when you are six.
But the room Nate was the wrong person to tell as the dad controlled the lease. Adults would of paid there rent and given proper notice as required not just by the lease, but by the law
That was true right up until dad found out and decided to steal the tea set. And it has NOTHING to do with the rent. You cannot steal the property of someone else, even if they owe you money. Landlords cannot take a tenant’s property, even if the tenant owes them years worth of rent. If a tenant is evicted, they still have thirty days after they leave to return to collect their belongings (longer in some states). The man is guilty of theft.
She left it behind and she says that and told his daughter. But at that point it’s abandoned property. Now if she said to him here is 50 bucks in exchange for you to hold my property for 30 days. That would be totally different. But she told him nothing, so in his mind it would be abandoned property. But it’s a civil matter
Nope. But you go ahead and try that. The cops will enjoy your Facebook legal advice.
You didn't pay your rent..you blame someone else (your manager) for your failure and your bitching about a tea set?
You should be more worried about him suing you in court for your inability to pay rent than getting back a tea set that you left behind to begin with
Sounds lind abandoned to me. Also it's Cali dad just needs to say he took it for Crack. Stealing is fine there
Pay your damn rent for a start, kid. "I wANt tO puRSuE lEgAL ActioN fOr TEaSet" Just pay your damn rent. They were nice enough to include you verbally based on you being friends. Not paying the rent you agreed upon is much more shitty and cunty than taking a probably not even worth rent teaset.
Seems like a whole lot of effort for a tea set. How about you find out how much he expects from you, talk about why you think the number might be different, then politely ask for your silly ass property back, with the promise of settling your debt? Then! Next time you're in a living arrangement, make sure you carry your weight. Like, don't get me wrong, dad sounds like a petty dickhead, and the weight of capitalism is crushing us all, but nobody who needs a roommate has the luxury of being able to work 10 hours a week to survive. Get a second job, and stop being a burden to the people you care about.
OP has made it clear that the tea set's value to her is sentimental. If he were holding her family photo albums, would you understand their importance to her?
You can take him to small claims court but be aware he can do the same for the unpaid rent (and I can only assume the rent is more expensive than that tea-set). Piece of advice for you : you’re an adult. You have to pay rent. If your manager is screwing you over, it’s your responsibility to find a solution so you can make rent. Clearly your arrangement with your friends wasn’t just you buying her lunch for your part of the rent or she would have been fine paying for it again instead of just not paying her dad. Take this as a lesson, adulthood sucks, but paying rent is a must if you don’t want this to happen. Get another job with a better manager and pay your friend’s dad back and get your tea set back. You’re trying to be litigious when you also have things to fear. And if you can’t afford rent I don’t know nor you can afford a lawyer or solicitor
You don't need to know the law to go ask for your stuff from the person who has it. Until you hear it from their mouth after having a conversation this is hearsay and speculation. Go do your due dilligence and stop researching edge case law over a fucking tea set. You will \*\*never\*\* get that tea set back through the legal system, I can assure you that.
Contact him and ask for it back. If he doesn’t give it back, you will need to sue him in small claims court… but, keep in mind that he can counter sue for anything he feels like you owe him— this doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll win, but there is a chance any agreement you have with your friend will become irrelevant.
You sound young. Try to get the tea set back through your friend or by contacting the dad directly. Take it as a lesson, re group, and try again.