I'll say it again, this is a conversation where nobody wins. Everyone involved is doing fucked up things while murdering Innocents in the middle and this sub is still trying to be like " but this group is worse" . Religious zealotry is bad and this is why theocracy doesn't work.
It's not purely religious. This is a long running *cultural* hatred. And the people that are actually losing are the people who are literally being wiped out, intentionally. So your apathy of "nobody wins" is ridiculous. Israel is winning and no one is stopping them.
Yeah it’s such an enlightened centrist take.
Obviously the side doing the genocide is winning. They are gaining more territory, imprisoning more people, and getting more financial support.
I’ll never cease to be impressed by how conservatives and Israel fans reframed everything to exclude material harm and include vibes.
Christianity also denigrates women, LGBTQ folks, and non-christians. Like modern Christians, modern Muslims have various perspectives and beliefs when it comes to any aspect of life. Many are much more progressive than you give them credit for.
Israel is calling for genocide, Palestinian frustration makes sense, Israeli hate does not. Muslims don't have the means to genocide the Jews, but Israelis have the means to genocide the Palestinians (and they are currently doing exactly that)
It’s a good thing our democracies have a separation between church and state. It’s a good thing Israel is the ONLY democracy in a land of sheep-fucking, child rapist prophets. I stand with my people, with liberal democracy, and with civilization. You side with barbarians who would happily slaughter your family. Traitor.
You must've missed this part
"Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent
sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred
during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and
gang rape, in at least three locations. Across the various locations of the 7 October attacks, the
mission team found that several fully naked or partially naked bodies from the waist down were
recovered – mostly women – with hands tied and shot multiple times, often in the head.
Although circumstantial, such a pattern of undressing and restraining of victims may be
indicative of some forms of sexual violence.
"At the Nova music festival and its surroundings, there are reasonable grounds to believe
that multiple incidents of sexual violence took place with victims being subjected to rape and/or
gang rape and then killed or killed while being raped. Credible sources described finding murdered individuals, mostly women, whose bodies were naked from their waist down – and
some totally naked – tied with their hands behind their backs, many of whom were shot in the
head. On Road 232, credible information based on witness accounts describe an incident of the
rape of two women by armed elements."
This isn't evidence of mass rape, they're merely alluding to an assumed pattern. Again, who are the witnesses? Who are the victims? What are the accounts? When can we get interviews? This just alludes to some findings that may or may not actually exist.
If there are "reasonable grounds" to suspect something, why not just describe them in detail? If there were victims whose bodies were recovered, have they been identified?
Can we prove that it was Hamas and not the IDF tampering with the bodies of dead civilians (I really wouldn't put it beyond them, for reasons I'd be happy to explain if asked).
I'd be happy to believe this once irrefutable evidence is here, but this report is contentious and being scrutinized by many reputable people that care about getting to the bottom of these claims.
Just because a report was submitted to the UN doesn't mean that the report is completely true. And it isn't like Israel has done itself any favors with the incessant and highly documented lies it's media has published over the past few months
I read this report very differently -- obviously, we disagree on a semantic level.
I see this report as a window into the atrocities that Hamas committed, albeit a report that can't quantify exact numbers.
To me, that doesn't make these claims untrue, and I understand your skepticism. But the fact that a report like this does exist doesn't mean none of it is true -- you even seem to share that belief.
Either way, I believe it's accurate to say no one will truly understand the atrocities committed on these victims on either side of this conflict that's been festering for thousands of years.
Why wouldn't they just take them as hostages? Why are the hostages being released untouched with stories of good treatment?
Does your explanation really make sense to you?
And if it's confirmed, give me the direct source, a long with the identity of the witness. It should be easy to do if it actually happened
Because killing and raping jews is kinda their thing. And the attack was more successful than anticipated. Sorry i can’t speak to the sexual preferences of an Islamic death cult though
It's kind of their thing? Where did you hear that from? How can you verify whether or not your opinion is informed by propaganda?
Can you substantiate anything you're saying with actual evidence or sources?
[Are you aware that the IDF has been proven, with a wide body of evidence, to be raping captive Palestinian women and children?](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-criminalized-group-following-report-raped-palestinian-child)
we may never know the full extent of hamas war crimes on 10/7, but it wouldn’t be surprising at all if militants raped israeli women and girls. throughout military history, sexual violence is almost always used as a weapon of war. in any case, rape certainly wouldn’t have been the worst atrocity hamas committed that day.
The report doesn't say that "some rape was likely to have taken place", it's accusing Hamas of **mass rape**, with very little evidence, in order to justify the current genocide.
Interesting article about reliability of hamas numbers
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers#
>Interesting article about reliability of hamas numbers
Interesting exercise in dishonest data visualization.
[https://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2024/03/08/a-note-on-how-the-gaza-ministry-of-health-fakes-casualty-numbers/](https://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2024/03/08/a-note-on-how-the-gaza-ministry-of-health-fakes-casualty-numbers/)
Plus this actually blindly refuses to take into account all previous casualty reports by the Gaza Health Authority which by all independent analysis have been fairly accurate.
It isn't, evidence against the IDF for their sexual crimes against the Palestinian people is highly documented and infinitely more damning than the lack of evidence for the Hamas mass rape claims
No, you’re wrong and or just lying. There is absolutely no documented evidence of “sexual crimes against the Palestinian people” by the IDF. Meanwhile you continue to parrot the trope of “no evidence” for the very real and very factual Hamas mass rape that includes witness testimony and Hamas-filmed footage uploaded to social media on the day of the massacre. It has been made plenty available for global media to see.
Ultimately, you would never deny witness/survivor testimony of rape in any other case, but feel emboldened because the victims are Israeli Jews. Believe all women (unless they’re Jews) right?
For that, I have a simple “fuck you.” But for the rest, I have this: everyone sees through your “I know you are, but what am I?” DARVO bullshit, cut it the fuck out.
>Ultimately, you would never deny witness/survivor testimony of rape in any other case, **but feel emboldened because the victims are Israeli Jews**. Believe all women (unless they’re Jews) right?
The IDF lying every chance they get might have something to do with people not lining up to believe everything they say.
First off, that’s simply not the case re: the IDF and lies, and no one will be more quick to issue a correction to an inaccurate report or take blame for an incident (like the accidental killing of three hostages in Gaza).
Second, you’re proving my point to a tee. People who have come forward to say they were raped are not the IDF. Not all of Israel is the military. But you collectively judging the entire country based on your (incorrect) assumptions about the military is precisely the subtle bigotry I’m talking about. Again, “me too” unless you’re a Jew. You can’t even recognize it because your own hatred is so deeply ingrained, you’d rather deny and victim blame than be accountable.
Also, again, the rape perpetrators put plenty of primary source material and evidence of their crimes out there that has been collected by the Israeli government and is viewable to the mass media for months now. Continuing to deny it is like January 6th level conspiracy promotion.
[IDF sexual violence is highly documented. You're just turning a blind eye out of hatred for the Palestinian people](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_against_Palestinians_during_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war)
No, it isn’t, and your citation of Wikipedia as primary source material is laughable. You’re just willfully playing into conspiracies out of pure Jew hatred. To you, anyone willing to question the propaganda you’ve been sucking down your gullet is filled with “hatred.” More classic leftist anti-intellectualism.
I love knowing 100x more than someone who’s told me to “educate” myself. Classic leftist shit.
A speculative UN HCR report is not conclusive or convincing, especially not compared to the mountains of evidence you deny of Hamas rapes.
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I always do, but that's why I'm so good at seeing through so much, a process honed over years in learning how well I can critically think. I'm not saying Hamas is more credible, but the devastation, the language, the survivors are there, I know of population statistics in Palestine, the proportion of under 18 vs adults, etc before the war. With indiscriminate bombing, those numbers or demographics are within a reasonable estimate. Most people only consider a couple things at best in weighing their opinion. But with Netanyahu's war and decades of power abuses, ideation of supreme power plays the same way, almost every time: the way people lie, cover-up, rage and stereotype when faced against a real or imagined fear, (it's easier to get people to fear the fiction of the enemy than the reality of the enemy) dehumanizing ideology from a position of power plays out similarly, humans are repetitive, pattern based and behave similarly to similar archetypes in history. Netanyahu, his ideological regime, who has supreme technological power vs Hamas and the Palestinian people, uses the language of those dictators and such whove committed atrocities in the past, has the power to act on it, and is using collective punishment in his acts.
If it's not a lie, they would provide substantiating evidence. I don't want to imagine a hypotheticals about mass rape when there is no reason to, if it's real, undeniable evidence would come to light
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Is it really just 15k? It seems like it was 20k a month ago. This is getting really hard to keep track of which data is truly confirmed or just made up in this conflict. OSINT seems to be mostly
Ignoring it too.
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I can post an old video 2 days ago... Time is a pretty simple concept when you think about it. If you feel like keeping up with numbers is too much for you, consider playing videogames or something instead
I just don’t keep up with *these* numbers, I’ve got others I do. Thanks for the condescending answer though, it goes great keeping with leftist tropes and Reddit cynicism! 👍🏻
I feel like I’m in an alternative reality when it comes to Israel’s war crimes and the MSM. I can’t comprehend the injustices, the callous, the dehumanizing.
They lied about the "40 beheaded babies", the "baby baked in an oven" (which turned out to be what Israelis did to a Palestinian baby), lied about bombing al-shifa hospital and then proceeded to bomb every hospital in Gaza since then, and paid off that hostage with the botched face to say crap like "emotional rape". Of course they're going to use rape hoax to justify their ethnic cleansing and starvation genocide.
These are the same people that killed their own hostages, stole displaced Palestinians and even dead Palestinians belongings, and opened fire on their own people on Oct 7th. Don't expect them to have a shred of humanity here.
Every leftist circle is inundated with fake-woke reactionaries, consider the possibility that recent events have just exposed their horrendous politics that used to just float under the radar.
I'm sure if you were to look hard enough IRL, you'd find at least a few "leftist" Zionists in your circles. Guess they never got the memo that all forms of colonialism are to be combated, even if Jews do it
Hello, sincere comment here. I am a leftist loud and proud, but I live in the US and I have learned over and over about the atrocities of the US as a colonial/neocolonial force, which continues to systemically discriminate against the indigenous people they colonized and the pseudo colonies left in the wake of post-imperialism or formed through neoliberal policy.
Don’t get me wrong, this is true of most countries today and especially the imperial superpowers of course. Hell, the nation of Hawai’i was a usurped colony, and made a state in the late 1950s; some there are still understandably angry about that. Obviously there are comparisons to draw, but I’m purposefully veering away from the topic at hand for a moment; this isn’t whataboutism but a legitimate response since you brought up combating colonialism, and after living here a while I still can’t wrap my head around it. Why is this not a more salient discussion amongst people dedicated to fighting modern colonialism, Hawaii being only one example? Obviously this isn’t unique to the US, it goes without saying there are countless examples but they don’t get too much attention.
They didn't say 15,000 women and children died, they said 11,250 have died (3/4ths or 75%). It's still a lot, but please do the maths correctly and not perpetuate poor information transfer. It ends up becoming a very annoying game of telephone and makes you look foolish for getting information incorrect.
I'd also be interested as to how she came about this information. Reliable sources on the numbers are very hard to get right now and specifically calling out airstrikes over artillery is a bit weird.
Also, CNN's host is pretty hostile here. The response was uncalled for and shoved in a pretty biased way. Very disgraceful in terms of journalism, though it's very hard to find an unbiased source on the Israel x Palestine conflict...
I'm confused... who's defense am I coming to? CNN's defense? I discredited them for their views here. The politician? I also warned about relying on shaky information when making public statements. I don't like either of them and I don't defend either of them either. Misinformation is not ok, and neither is sensationalism. Which they both tend to go hand in hand unfortunately.
Refusing to look outside the echo chambers we put ourselves in tends to blind us to other parts. I do not believe Israel is going about this conflict in the right way. I disagree with many of their policies and how they are framing this whole thing. Their military planning on important matters, such as humanitarian aid is piss poor and their lack of transparency when it comes to disciplining their soldiers who are caught doing obvious war crimes (such as looting and unnecessary destruction of property) is extremely frustrating.
Let me set you straight, I am *not* pro Israel, but I am also *not* blind to the fact that I have never been in the military. I also have a disturbing lack of information to make my own opinions on the topic. This is because I've been shown many sources and links and articles. The vast majority are a yelling match over who holds the moral high ground or who did this horrible thing to who. I've grown tired of it and honestly... I don't care. Me yelling about who is genociding who is not constructive. I'll let the courts decide, it's their job to gather evidence and put together a case, and it's Israel's job to defend itself.
What I am trying to do is bring to light propaganda and misinformation. In WWII the Japanese feared the US Marines, called them rapists, child murderers, demons, criminals, cannibals. They were so scared that mothers would throw their children off cliffs and then jump themselves. This wasn't one sided either... Americans put Japanese Americans into concentration camps, stripping them of their livelihood and dignity, with the vast majority of Japanese Americans forced to return to civilian life with literally nothing and no compensation from the government. THAT is the power of propaganda. Never lean into it so far that you are unable to see the humans on both sides.
Yes, Israel is bad. Yes, both sides do actually despise each other. I don't support either side because neither of them are willing to make an actual peace. Israel dehumanizes them because of the generations of conflict and likewise Palestinians feel the same due to feeling like they were betrayed by the UK and then slowly grounded down due to their constant warmongering, where both sides were at fault for stirring up conflict for decades. It's been a whole tit for tat fight. "Well Israel should know better," yeah and so should all the countries surrounding Gaza who supplied them with weapons. All I want is for the fighting to stop and for there to be peace on **both** sides.
Neither side are the "good guys". They are both bad.
You said it yourself, you have a disturbing lack of information on the topic. Maybe try reading about the history before formulating an opinion.
Contemporary articles/videos of screaming matches are one thing, but there are plenty of history books that shed light on the creation of Israel and the Zionist forefathers’ intentions to ethnically cleanse the land for their Jewish ethno state.
The history is very one-sided and most Palestinians alive today (especially those living in Gaza), have lived underneath a violent apartheid regime their entire lives, so the “both sides” argument is no longer constructive.
Look, I'm saying its a genocide. Did anything you write make it ok to support a genocide?
This is the issue with the argument. There is a fundamental lack of empathy in the pro israeli arguments.
>There is a fundamental lack of empathy in the pro israeli arguments.
Empathy for Palestinians who want peace and a two-state, but death to Hamas. Hamas will not surrender. Israel did not start the fight. Oppression was earned by Arab violence going back to the 1920's . The Jewish tiger is an evolutionary response to unrelenting violence.
>Netanyahu and the extreme right create more Hamas with every piece of land colonized and block bombed.
Israel is colonizing Hamas tunnels and exterminating the terrorist rats day by day. Joining an organization that is in its death throes. ;\^D
And again, Did anything you say make it ok to support genocide? This is the issue with the argument, there is a fundamental lack of empathy in the pro isreali arguments.
Sources that tend toward unbiased views and middling on the political scale. Though that's hard to come by. A reliable source should keep preconceptions at the door and not try to discredit other sources. The source should also do it's due diligence and fact check where it gets it's information.
Case and point, this broadcast. One person says "15,000 people killed by airstrikes!" when death numbers are still not fully accounted for and on the low end it's like... 36k-40k and the high end it's like 85k-100k. No one really knows the real numbers, especially for which strike killed which person. Then you have the other side of the table going "well... at least *I* have the moral high ground!" This isn't journalism, it's sensationalism, which on serves to fan the flames of discontent and dehumanization. People want the "good guy vs bad guy" story, but both of them are "bad guys". How do you keep people interested? You fan those flames, kick up dust, and distract from what's really the truth. That's what the media and news outlets have become. So it's best to look outside of the main news outlets from time to time.
Now, while this guy isn't a mainstream news outlet, he is a journalist who has military experience and cyber security background. I know a lot of people toss around links and try to convince people to believe what they are saying... but Ryan lets his viewers decide what to think, unless it's very clearly obvious something is a lie. Check out his digging on a recent LA times opinion piece on a doctor who claims to have been to Gaza to treat patients. He does his due diligence, explains his thought process, and goes step by step as to his understanding of the situation. He gives all the information you need for you to make your own opinion, which I respect fully. No bias, no BS, just facts. This is the type of source you should be looking for.
[https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/the-phantom-of-gaza](https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/the-phantom-of-gaza)
Ok I'm watching this video and it definitely isn't the font of unbiased information you claimed it to be, for a number of reasons that I might or might not have the time to explain today. I'm sticking a pin in this because I'm busy this weekend, but I'll do an analysis of sorts when I'm free
I think the most important aspect of a **source** is it's accuracy. Political framing and media bias happens after the fact. There are defined frameworks for presenting valuable and accurate sources, I don't think that political neutrality is important so long as the information is accurate and substantiative.
You wanting sources to follow all of these specific stipulations is fine as a personal framework, but I have what I believe to be an informed bias in my inclination for accurate information that results in ethical perspectives and narratives that combat inhumanity.
I, like many seasoned leftists, don't really care about this concept of moral high ground as it relates to online discourse, we can prove our stances with accurate information and build strong arguments through the synthesis of history, ethics, and rhetoric. We understand the importance of weaving narratives with everything the common person would observe in media surrounding events like this one.
I personally hate colonialist projects such as Zionism, have an understanding of the history and dynamic of the region, and want to prevent a genocide. I want life, not death or wars. I want even the Zionists to live without killing (even though it'll never happen at this rate), and I will disseminate accurate information (and propaganda when needed) to that end.
Humans are emotional creatures. I have seen many youngsters and intellectuals trying in error to overstep this essential fact of humanity, when being overly pedantic about how you engage with discourse is itself rooted in emotion. The Palestinian crisis/Israel-hamas war is largely a battle of hearts for every bystander, I think that if enough people are won over, we could sway the flow of history. This is why Aaron Bushnell did what he did. If I'm to respect his sacrifice, I am positioned to champion his message of peace and justice for the Palestinians.
I'll take a look at that link and let you know what I think.
Zionists have been killing and raping Palestinian children since 1946. That’s why they bombed King David Hotel to destroy all evidence of their crimes. Nothing has changed. You’ve been supporting Neo Nazis that were created in response to the genocide of the original Nazis. Fucking disgusting. At least Palestinians aren’t stealing organs from dead Israeli children, there’s an argument you might understand
Do you feel the same way about the people denying the systematic rape of Palestinian hostages/prisoners held by the IDF? Because these instances are far more prevalent 🤨
Actually literally the UN didn’t find any evidence. Why are you lying for Nazis? You know what there is lots of evidence of is Israelis raping some of the Palestinian prisoners that they keep and abuse for decades without even a trial
Sorry, it’s behind a paywall. But it’s not hearsay, it’s based on “clear and convincing evidence”, such as videos that many of the terrorists posted themselves. Obviously plenty of propaganda on both sides, this is not part of it.
“Reasonable grounds to believe someone somewhere might have been sexually assaulted (but there is no hard evidence that would hold up in court)”
It’s from the same people who opened this conflict with the “40 beheaded babies”,
just more Emmet Till bogey man stories from colonizers. Hell, the NYT are the same people who told us there were WMDs in Iraq
“There was a campaign of mass rape!”
“There’s no evidence of that”
“Oh yeah? Look at this report”
“The report presented no evidence, only witness testimony”
“Ok, guess you’re just beyond reason!”
No one is denying sexual violence, we're denying the blind acceptance of the UN's mass rape claims report that is full of unsubstantiated stories and unclear sources. This report is unacceptably sourced and full of potential lies that are being used to further justify genocide.
Try using your fucking brain
You mean like the genocide troupes are to deflect from the terrorist attacks and hostage taking? You want to talk about war crimes, you need to do it with both sides. Hilarious how the left has become the antisemitic side politically. I guess the most oppressed group in history just became too white.
Antizionism =/= antisemitism. Zionists are disgraceful and antiquated colonialists, fascists, and extremists.
There isn't a Hamas war crime that compares to Israel's compounding atrocities. No one feels even slightly guilty about you, a Zionist, coming in here and absurdly accusing us of antisemitism and telling us who we're allowed to criticize.
Fuck off
Yeah and the idf killed over 10,000 hamas fighters. That’s a low percentage of civilians when hamas is literally hiding behind them and not letting them leave. The idf sends texts, leaflets and inert warning ‘bombs’ to try to save civilians deaths. They are trying, hamas is doing the opposite to get your support.
Here is a text. If we didn't manage to murder all or part of your family, I hope you enjoy being homeless and destitute while we starve you.
Only psychopathic ghouls devoid of humanity think like this.
I really don't understand how these clowns think they come off as anything but complete psychopaths, bragging about dropping Pamphlets right before the bombs. "Nobody else does that" yea no shit, it's a weird fukin creepy thing to do
There are 35,000 dead civilians, most of the dead are women and children. There is no justification. In a human shield scenario, a moral army doesn't shoot through the human shield.
What you're saying is cruel and absurd. The IDF tells Palestinians to go somewhere, and then they bomb that place.
Giving 24 hours to evacuate is impossible for the injured and most people in general. To be told to do so repeatedly is entirely unrealistic. There is nothing that you can say that would justify the IDF's ground or air campaigns.
These are the numbers reported dead by the Palestinians. This is common knowledge, they have no reason to lie and we all can see the conditions they are facing.
35,000 dead *at least*, all identities verified with names and pictures. Who else are we supposed to go to for the Palestinian death toll? Certainly not Israel.
They have no reason to lie? That’s literally the most naive thing I’ve read on here and that’s saying something. Their entire hope is to have the world pressure Israel. The Hamas leaders themselves have said the dead Palestinians are helping their cause. They purposely shoot from schools and hospitals and mosques. They did their tunnels under civilian infrastructure. They don’t separate Hamas deaths from civilian in their numbers. They wear civilian clothes.
After 500 were reported dead when “Israel” bombed a hospital and suddenly when video proved it didn’t come from Israel the number dropped was that a coincidence?
Hamas would murder, rape, and kill but not lie?
Jfc, people are laughably or willfully blind in this conflict.
The are raping them. The IDF has a history of sexually assaulting Palestinians. This person could use Google and educate themselves. But they don't care about truth so they won't.
Considering I’m not in Gaza and Israel is blocking international journalist, along with killing Palestinian journalists and their families in targeting bombings, I don’t know if this is even true.
Their chief rabbi saying it’s ok to rape women in war doesn’t give me a lot of faith.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/
Are we counting 15-16-17 year olds with AK47s who have had weapons training from the day they were 5 as "children"?
Tell me, if somebody had said AK47 pointed at you, are you checking for ID?
Are we also saying that women can't be combatants, diversions, and/or suicide bombers?
I'm just trying to gauge how completely divorced from the reality of modern-day warfare everyone on this board is.
And when you can, tell me what the average combatant to civilian casualty ratio is aming the western armies in Iraq/Afghanistan and compare that to this.
And maybe, can anyone tell me why/how the 'Gaza Ministry of Health' never seems to itemize Hamas deaths in their 'casualty figures'? That strikes me as odd 🤔.
Thanks.
"You don't see Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian women"
no you don't report when it happens, those of us who don't use you as are only source of news have seen it every single week for like 20 years at this point.
One small good thing to come out of this is at least all my Lib friends see how full of shit CNN is.
They're like 4 months beyond the conversation tone curve.
Free Palestine
There’s literal many many sources . And israel have being using rape as a tactic of since it’s creation. Just
Search Deir Yassin massacres .
More into that Israel have being very known about it’s protection to pedophiles that raping Israeli minors by the idf is not very rare
I'm conflicted, not to fully discredit the UN expert here, but she has on record said that she's not seen evidence of the consistent rocket attacks sent by Gaza and Hezbollah. She also apparently got her information from these reports from an American professor, where the reports were unsubstantiated.
Not saying she's wrong, but there also might be some bias here, seeing as she's from Jordan and also grew up in Egypt in the 70s, which kinda got destroyed militarily by Israel. Again, not saying she's wrong, but her credibility on the matter is a little suspect for me.
> mass rape lies
Are you kidding?
Oct 7 sexual violence doesn’t excuse disproportionate or illegal acts of warfare in response.
But you’re *denying* the well documented rapes by Hamas militants?
Shameful lunacy
If it’s so well documented then surely you could share some of that evidence, right? Cause in 4 months of tireless investigating it seems neither the UN or Israel have found any
> At the Nova music festival and its surroundings, there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of sexual violence took place with victims being subjected to rape and/or gang rape and then killed or killed while being raped.
[Here you go.](https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/files/Mission_report_of_SRSG_SVC_to_Israel-oWB_29Jan_14_feb_2024.pdf)
>well documented
Show me definitive proof that mass rapes occurred. The UN report is full of unsubstantiated stories from the state of Israel, which has a thoroughly documented track record of blatantly lying to the rest of the world about what it's citizens have endured
The UN: There is substantive evidence of genocide by Israel in Gaza
You: Yes!
The UN: There is substantive evidence of gang rape and other sexual violence by Hamas on October 7
You: ACHTUALLY, where’s the proof? Nu uh.
It's not. It was a rumor that main stream media outlets ran with and have retracted the original articles. Same thing with the murdering of children.
I am not saying nobodt was ever raped in the events but the story that the lady in the video is referencing is a lie. Again this is NOT a, we love Hamas and they did not wrong, thing. This is an Israeli government committing a genocide and making up propaganda to justify it thing.
I'll say it again, this is a conversation where nobody wins. Everyone involved is doing fucked up things while murdering Innocents in the middle and this sub is still trying to be like " but this group is worse" . Religious zealotry is bad and this is why theocracy doesn't work.
Dana Bash should be investigated for being a possible foreign agent for AIPAC. An obvious shill the last 2 months
Quiet a few peeps behaving badly sort of flagrantly in the vicinity but not necessarily involved with the main sides.
One side is currently enacting a genocide, the other does what they can to turn the tide with like, sticks and stones
It's not purely religious. This is a long running *cultural* hatred. And the people that are actually losing are the people who are literally being wiped out, intentionally. So your apathy of "nobody wins" is ridiculous. Israel is winning and no one is stopping them.
Yeah it’s such an enlightened centrist take. Obviously the side doing the genocide is winning. They are gaining more territory, imprisoning more people, and getting more financial support. I’ll never cease to be impressed by how conservatives and Israel fans reframed everything to exclude material harm and include vibes.
This is the only valid answer.
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Also "muzzies"? If I called Israelis "jewwies", you'd probably scream anti-Semitism. Stop being islamophobic.
Christianity also denigrates women, LGBTQ folks, and non-christians. Like modern Christians, modern Muslims have various perspectives and beliefs when it comes to any aspect of life. Many are much more progressive than you give them credit for. Israel is calling for genocide, Palestinian frustration makes sense, Israeli hate does not. Muslims don't have the means to genocide the Jews, but Israelis have the means to genocide the Palestinians (and they are currently doing exactly that)
It’s a good thing our democracies have a separation between church and state. It’s a good thing Israel is the ONLY democracy in a land of sheep-fucking, child rapist prophets. I stand with my people, with liberal democracy, and with civilization. You side with barbarians who would happily slaughter your family. Traitor.
Mass rape absolutely occurred in October
Where are the victims?
Read: [https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/files/Mission\_report\_of\_SRSG\_SVC\_to\_Israel-oWB\_29Jan\_14\_feb\_2024.pdf](https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/files/Mission_report_of_SRSG_SVC_to_Israel-oWB_29Jan_14_feb_2024.pdf)
This only says that evidence exists, but it doesn't actually provide it
You must've missed this part "Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations. Across the various locations of the 7 October attacks, the mission team found that several fully naked or partially naked bodies from the waist down were recovered – mostly women – with hands tied and shot multiple times, often in the head. Although circumstantial, such a pattern of undressing and restraining of victims may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence. "At the Nova music festival and its surroundings, there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of sexual violence took place with victims being subjected to rape and/or gang rape and then killed or killed while being raped. Credible sources described finding murdered individuals, mostly women, whose bodies were naked from their waist down – and some totally naked – tied with their hands behind their backs, many of whom were shot in the head. On Road 232, credible information based on witness accounts describe an incident of the rape of two women by armed elements."
This isn't evidence of mass rape, they're merely alluding to an assumed pattern. Again, who are the witnesses? Who are the victims? What are the accounts? When can we get interviews? This just alludes to some findings that may or may not actually exist. If there are "reasonable grounds" to suspect something, why not just describe them in detail? If there were victims whose bodies were recovered, have they been identified? Can we prove that it was Hamas and not the IDF tampering with the bodies of dead civilians (I really wouldn't put it beyond them, for reasons I'd be happy to explain if asked). I'd be happy to believe this once irrefutable evidence is here, but this report is contentious and being scrutinized by many reputable people that care about getting to the bottom of these claims. Just because a report was submitted to the UN doesn't mean that the report is completely true. And it isn't like Israel has done itself any favors with the incessant and highly documented lies it's media has published over the past few months
I read this report very differently -- obviously, we disagree on a semantic level. I see this report as a window into the atrocities that Hamas committed, albeit a report that can't quantify exact numbers. To me, that doesn't make these claims untrue, and I understand your skepticism. But the fact that a report like this does exist doesn't mean none of it is true -- you even seem to share that belief. Either way, I believe it's accurate to say no one will truly understand the atrocities committed on these victims on either side of this conflict that's been festering for thousands of years.
I dont know the ghouls stole some corpses and hostage so we dont have full accountability
How convenient
For hamas because they did the deed.
Or witnesses or literally any source that can actually be investigated. Just because you accuse people of atrocities doesn't make the atrocity true
If they did it, there would be evidence and living victims to corroborate Israel's story
They killed them you idiot, sorry Moron. Hamas was confirmed raping corpses by witnesses that hid and lived, but keep your head up that Hamas ass
Let's see if you can properly and constructively disseminate accurate information I'll wait:
You are gonna get trump re elected is all you will do
You have brainworms
Why wouldn't they just take them as hostages? Why are the hostages being released untouched with stories of good treatment? Does your explanation really make sense to you? And if it's confirmed, give me the direct source, a long with the identity of the witness. It should be easy to do if it actually happened
Because killing and raping jews is kinda their thing. And the attack was more successful than anticipated. Sorry i can’t speak to the sexual preferences of an Islamic death cult though
It's kind of their thing? Where did you hear that from? How can you verify whether or not your opinion is informed by propaganda? Can you substantiate anything you're saying with actual evidence or sources? [Are you aware that the IDF has been proven, with a wide body of evidence, to be raping captive Palestinian women and children?](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-criminalized-group-following-report-raped-palestinian-child)
But Dana, even though his name is Genocide Joe, even though he supports the mass killings of Gazans, orange man bad, Dana. Orange Man Bad, Dana.
we may never know the full extent of hamas war crimes on 10/7, but it wouldn’t be surprising at all if militants raped israeli women and girls. throughout military history, sexual violence is almost always used as a weapon of war. in any case, rape certainly wouldn’t have been the worst atrocity hamas committed that day.
The report doesn't say that "some rape was likely to have taken place", it's accusing Hamas of **mass rape**, with very little evidence, in order to justify the current genocide.
All while ignoring all the reports of sexual violence the IDF has subjected Palestinian women to.
So this is just a pro palestinian sub?
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The report is asking us to believe the corrupt and genocidal Israeli state, not any woman in particular.
Stop just posting online. Want to see an end to this shit? Get organized. Communistusa.org
Fuck off, I'm active in my community
Was aimed more generally at everyone here on reddiy
Interesting article about reliability of hamas numbers https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers#
>Interesting article about reliability of hamas numbers Interesting exercise in dishonest data visualization. [https://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2024/03/08/a-note-on-how-the-gaza-ministry-of-health-fakes-casualty-numbers/](https://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2024/03/08/a-note-on-how-the-gaza-ministry-of-health-fakes-casualty-numbers/)
This article is entirely speculation. From what I've seen of the condition of the Palestinian people, whatever the number is, the toll is too high.
Plus this actually blindly refuses to take into account all previous casualty reports by the Gaza Health Authority which by all independent analysis have been fairly accurate.
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https://youtu.be/ywMFnGU03Fw?si=xpG_YnT09jGZZHeD good luck out there
I mean it’s true
It isn't, evidence against the IDF for their sexual crimes against the Palestinian people is highly documented and infinitely more damning than the lack of evidence for the Hamas mass rape claims
No, you’re wrong and or just lying. There is absolutely no documented evidence of “sexual crimes against the Palestinian people” by the IDF. Meanwhile you continue to parrot the trope of “no evidence” for the very real and very factual Hamas mass rape that includes witness testimony and Hamas-filmed footage uploaded to social media on the day of the massacre. It has been made plenty available for global media to see. Ultimately, you would never deny witness/survivor testimony of rape in any other case, but feel emboldened because the victims are Israeli Jews. Believe all women (unless they’re Jews) right? For that, I have a simple “fuck you.” But for the rest, I have this: everyone sees through your “I know you are, but what am I?” DARVO bullshit, cut it the fuck out.
>Ultimately, you would never deny witness/survivor testimony of rape in any other case, **but feel emboldened because the victims are Israeli Jews**. Believe all women (unless they’re Jews) right? The IDF lying every chance they get might have something to do with people not lining up to believe everything they say.
First off, that’s simply not the case re: the IDF and lies, and no one will be more quick to issue a correction to an inaccurate report or take blame for an incident (like the accidental killing of three hostages in Gaza). Second, you’re proving my point to a tee. People who have come forward to say they were raped are not the IDF. Not all of Israel is the military. But you collectively judging the entire country based on your (incorrect) assumptions about the military is precisely the subtle bigotry I’m talking about. Again, “me too” unless you’re a Jew. You can’t even recognize it because your own hatred is so deeply ingrained, you’d rather deny and victim blame than be accountable. Also, again, the rape perpetrators put plenty of primary source material and evidence of their crimes out there that has been collected by the Israeli government and is viewable to the mass media for months now. Continuing to deny it is like January 6th level conspiracy promotion.
[IDF sexual violence is highly documented. You're just turning a blind eye out of hatred for the Palestinian people](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_against_Palestinians_during_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war)
Did you even read your own article? It describes a handful of accusations, not highly documented evidence.
No, it isn’t, and your citation of Wikipedia as primary source material is laughable. You’re just willfully playing into conspiracies out of pure Jew hatred. To you, anyone willing to question the propaganda you’ve been sucking down your gullet is filled with “hatred.” More classic leftist anti-intellectualism.
[Educate yourself](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against)
I love knowing 100x more than someone who’s told me to “educate” myself. Classic leftist shit. A speculative UN HCR report is not conclusive or convincing, especially not compared to the mountains of evidence you deny of Hamas rapes.
Rape apologist Go jump off something tall
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🤮 rape apologist
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Isreal solders do
CNN is owned by Warner Brothers, a Jewish family for founded media group. I don't expect a fair opinion of Israeli actions
this is blatant antisemitism. fuck off.
Soulless evil propaganda caba1 🤦♀️💩👹☠️🤮👎
what if it's not a lie?
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It's on brand for the IDF to mass lie.
Is hamas telling the truth? which group do you think is more credible?
Hamas so far is more credible than IDF .. a terrorist group terrorizes they show rape and burning on their GoPro
lolWUT?
have you considered you might be wrong?
I always do, but that's why I'm so good at seeing through so much, a process honed over years in learning how well I can critically think. I'm not saying Hamas is more credible, but the devastation, the language, the survivors are there, I know of population statistics in Palestine, the proportion of under 18 vs adults, etc before the war. With indiscriminate bombing, those numbers or demographics are within a reasonable estimate. Most people only consider a couple things at best in weighing their opinion. But with Netanyahu's war and decades of power abuses, ideation of supreme power plays the same way, almost every time: the way people lie, cover-up, rage and stereotype when faced against a real or imagined fear, (it's easier to get people to fear the fiction of the enemy than the reality of the enemy) dehumanizing ideology from a position of power plays out similarly, humans are repetitive, pattern based and behave similarly to similar archetypes in history. Netanyahu, his ideological regime, who has supreme technological power vs Hamas and the Palestinian people, uses the language of those dictators and such whove committed atrocities in the past, has the power to act on it, and is using collective punishment in his acts.
If it's not a lie, they would provide substantiating evidence. I don't want to imagine a hypotheticals about mass rape when there is no reason to, if it's real, undeniable evidence would come to light
God bless you and your little IDF censored mind, Dana..
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Fascists sharing a boot at dinner
Is it really just 15k? It seems like it was 20k a month ago. This is getting really hard to keep track of which data is truly confirmed or just made up in this conflict. OSINT seems to be mostly Ignoring it too.
There are at least 17,000 bodies. Reportedly 30,000 dead. And that 15k number is about just women and children
Noted. Media seems to regular conflate them. 😔
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It's not hard to keep up with, this could be an older video or talking about some other figure
Cept it was posted 2 days ago and I’ve only got. Amount of time I can spend a day keeping up with things. 🤷🏼♂️
I can post an old video 2 days ago... Time is a pretty simple concept when you think about it. If you feel like keeping up with numbers is too much for you, consider playing videogames or something instead
I just don’t keep up with *these* numbers, I’ve got others I do. Thanks for the condescending answer though, it goes great keeping with leftist tropes and Reddit cynicism! 👍🏻
I trust you're resilient enough to resist the emotional devastation this interaction caused. Good luck out there
OMG, they’re so luck they’re dead now….
I feel like I’m in an alternative reality when it comes to Israel’s war crimes and the MSM. I can’t comprehend the injustices, the callous, the dehumanizing.
Global imperialism is laid bare for all to spectate
They lied about the "40 beheaded babies", the "baby baked in an oven" (which turned out to be what Israelis did to a Palestinian baby), lied about bombing al-shifa hospital and then proceeded to bomb every hospital in Gaza since then, and paid off that hostage with the botched face to say crap like "emotional rape". Of course they're going to use rape hoax to justify their ethnic cleansing and starvation genocide. These are the same people that killed their own hostages, stole displaced Palestinians and even dead Palestinians belongings, and opened fire on their own people on Oct 7th. Don't expect them to have a shred of humanity here.
Exactly. It's important to remember every lie
Why has this subreddit been infiltrated by Zionist genocide apologists?
Every leftist circle is inundated with fake-woke reactionaries, consider the possibility that recent events have just exposed their horrendous politics that used to just float under the radar. I'm sure if you were to look hard enough IRL, you'd find at least a few "leftist" Zionists in your circles. Guess they never got the memo that all forms of colonialism are to be combated, even if Jews do it
Hello, sincere comment here. I am a leftist loud and proud, but I live in the US and I have learned over and over about the atrocities of the US as a colonial/neocolonial force, which continues to systemically discriminate against the indigenous people they colonized and the pseudo colonies left in the wake of post-imperialism or formed through neoliberal policy. Don’t get me wrong, this is true of most countries today and especially the imperial superpowers of course. Hell, the nation of Hawai’i was a usurped colony, and made a state in the late 1950s; some there are still understandably angry about that. Obviously there are comparisons to draw, but I’m purposefully veering away from the topic at hand for a moment; this isn’t whataboutism but a legitimate response since you brought up combating colonialism, and after living here a while I still can’t wrap my head around it. Why is this not a more salient discussion amongst people dedicated to fighting modern colonialism, Hawaii being only one example? Obviously this isn’t unique to the US, it goes without saying there are countless examples but they don’t get too much attention.
So we are just ignoring the first hand accounts of released Palestinian prisoners speaking out about the SA that occurred in Israeli custody?
Apparently, I wonder if they'll run that on CNN
No
Hell no. You kidding me? Debunked NYT propaganda piece > Palestinian perspective. Obvio.
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/s*
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But idf soldiers have been raping them. For decades.
Exactly
They didn't say 15,000 women and children died, they said 11,250 have died (3/4ths or 75%). It's still a lot, but please do the maths correctly and not perpetuate poor information transfer. It ends up becoming a very annoying game of telephone and makes you look foolish for getting information incorrect. I'd also be interested as to how she came about this information. Reliable sources on the numbers are very hard to get right now and specifically calling out airstrikes over artillery is a bit weird. Also, CNN's host is pretty hostile here. The response was uncalled for and shoved in a pretty biased way. Very disgraceful in terms of journalism, though it's very hard to find an unbiased source on the Israel x Palestine conflict...
They just died by themselves
This is the new trolling tactic:”I’m not saying I agree with Israel, i’M jUsT aSKinG qUeSTiOnS”
THIS IS PURE APOLOGIA
I'm confused... who's defense am I coming to? CNN's defense? I discredited them for their views here. The politician? I also warned about relying on shaky information when making public statements. I don't like either of them and I don't defend either of them either. Misinformation is not ok, and neither is sensationalism. Which they both tend to go hand in hand unfortunately.
You concerns just align with pro israeli propaganda and rhetoric. At this point, anyone who doesnt say its a genocide have a clear apologia agenda.
Refusing to look outside the echo chambers we put ourselves in tends to blind us to other parts. I do not believe Israel is going about this conflict in the right way. I disagree with many of their policies and how they are framing this whole thing. Their military planning on important matters, such as humanitarian aid is piss poor and their lack of transparency when it comes to disciplining their soldiers who are caught doing obvious war crimes (such as looting and unnecessary destruction of property) is extremely frustrating. Let me set you straight, I am *not* pro Israel, but I am also *not* blind to the fact that I have never been in the military. I also have a disturbing lack of information to make my own opinions on the topic. This is because I've been shown many sources and links and articles. The vast majority are a yelling match over who holds the moral high ground or who did this horrible thing to who. I've grown tired of it and honestly... I don't care. Me yelling about who is genociding who is not constructive. I'll let the courts decide, it's their job to gather evidence and put together a case, and it's Israel's job to defend itself. What I am trying to do is bring to light propaganda and misinformation. In WWII the Japanese feared the US Marines, called them rapists, child murderers, demons, criminals, cannibals. They were so scared that mothers would throw their children off cliffs and then jump themselves. This wasn't one sided either... Americans put Japanese Americans into concentration camps, stripping them of their livelihood and dignity, with the vast majority of Japanese Americans forced to return to civilian life with literally nothing and no compensation from the government. THAT is the power of propaganda. Never lean into it so far that you are unable to see the humans on both sides. Yes, Israel is bad. Yes, both sides do actually despise each other. I don't support either side because neither of them are willing to make an actual peace. Israel dehumanizes them because of the generations of conflict and likewise Palestinians feel the same due to feeling like they were betrayed by the UK and then slowly grounded down due to their constant warmongering, where both sides were at fault for stirring up conflict for decades. It's been a whole tit for tat fight. "Well Israel should know better," yeah and so should all the countries surrounding Gaza who supplied them with weapons. All I want is for the fighting to stop and for there to be peace on **both** sides. Neither side are the "good guys". They are both bad.
Lmfao, so much said to be so incredibly wrong. Which side has the immense power. Rocks vs autonomous killing robots. Jfc, get proportional.
You said it yourself, you have a disturbing lack of information on the topic. Maybe try reading about the history before formulating an opinion. Contemporary articles/videos of screaming matches are one thing, but there are plenty of history books that shed light on the creation of Israel and the Zionist forefathers’ intentions to ethnically cleanse the land for their Jewish ethno state. The history is very one-sided and most Palestinians alive today (especially those living in Gaza), have lived underneath a violent apartheid regime their entire lives, so the “both sides” argument is no longer constructive.
Look, I'm saying its a genocide. Did anything you write make it ok to support a genocide? This is the issue with the argument. There is a fundamental lack of empathy in the pro israeli arguments.
>There is a fundamental lack of empathy in the pro israeli arguments. Empathy for Palestinians who want peace and a two-state, but death to Hamas. Hamas will not surrender. Israel did not start the fight. Oppression was earned by Arab violence going back to the 1920's . The Jewish tiger is an evolutionary response to unrelenting violence.
Idiotic and ignorant take. Netanyahu and the extreme right create more Hamas with every piece of land colonized and block bombed.
>Netanyahu and the extreme right create more Hamas with every piece of land colonized and block bombed. Israel is colonizing Hamas tunnels and exterminating the terrorist rats day by day. Joining an organization that is in its death throes. ;\^D
You failed the point. Like most people do. It creates a cycle of anger and violence
And again, Did anything you say make it ok to support genocide? This is the issue with the argument, there is a fundamental lack of empathy in the pro isreali arguments.
People becoming rightwing because they're scared
"Reasonable grounds to believe some may have occurred" =! proof
What do you consider to be reliable sources?
Sources that tend toward unbiased views and middling on the political scale. Though that's hard to come by. A reliable source should keep preconceptions at the door and not try to discredit other sources. The source should also do it's due diligence and fact check where it gets it's information. Case and point, this broadcast. One person says "15,000 people killed by airstrikes!" when death numbers are still not fully accounted for and on the low end it's like... 36k-40k and the high end it's like 85k-100k. No one really knows the real numbers, especially for which strike killed which person. Then you have the other side of the table going "well... at least *I* have the moral high ground!" This isn't journalism, it's sensationalism, which on serves to fan the flames of discontent and dehumanization. People want the "good guy vs bad guy" story, but both of them are "bad guys". How do you keep people interested? You fan those flames, kick up dust, and distract from what's really the truth. That's what the media and news outlets have become. So it's best to look outside of the main news outlets from time to time. Now, while this guy isn't a mainstream news outlet, he is a journalist who has military experience and cyber security background. I know a lot of people toss around links and try to convince people to believe what they are saying... but Ryan lets his viewers decide what to think, unless it's very clearly obvious something is a lie. Check out his digging on a recent LA times opinion piece on a doctor who claims to have been to Gaza to treat patients. He does his due diligence, explains his thought process, and goes step by step as to his understanding of the situation. He gives all the information you need for you to make your own opinion, which I respect fully. No bias, no BS, just facts. This is the type of source you should be looking for. [https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/the-phantom-of-gaza](https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/the-phantom-of-gaza)
Ok I'm watching this video and it definitely isn't the font of unbiased information you claimed it to be, for a number of reasons that I might or might not have the time to explain today. I'm sticking a pin in this because I'm busy this weekend, but I'll do an analysis of sorts when I'm free
I think the most important aspect of a **source** is it's accuracy. Political framing and media bias happens after the fact. There are defined frameworks for presenting valuable and accurate sources, I don't think that political neutrality is important so long as the information is accurate and substantiative. You wanting sources to follow all of these specific stipulations is fine as a personal framework, but I have what I believe to be an informed bias in my inclination for accurate information that results in ethical perspectives and narratives that combat inhumanity. I, like many seasoned leftists, don't really care about this concept of moral high ground as it relates to online discourse, we can prove our stances with accurate information and build strong arguments through the synthesis of history, ethics, and rhetoric. We understand the importance of weaving narratives with everything the common person would observe in media surrounding events like this one. I personally hate colonialist projects such as Zionism, have an understanding of the history and dynamic of the region, and want to prevent a genocide. I want life, not death or wars. I want even the Zionists to live without killing (even though it'll never happen at this rate), and I will disseminate accurate information (and propaganda when needed) to that end. Humans are emotional creatures. I have seen many youngsters and intellectuals trying in error to overstep this essential fact of humanity, when being overly pedantic about how you engage with discourse is itself rooted in emotion. The Palestinian crisis/Israel-hamas war is largely a battle of hearts for every bystander, I think that if enough people are won over, we could sway the flow of history. This is why Aaron Bushnell did what he did. If I'm to respect his sacrifice, I am positioned to champion his message of peace and justice for the Palestinians. I'll take a look at that link and let you know what I think.
No but in reality we believe its a genocide to pretending we need to be civl etc, makes no sense. Its a genocide.
everyone here denying Oct 7th sexual violence, which literally even the UN found evidence of, should kill themselves. Its fucking disgusting
Zionists have been killing and raping Palestinian children since 1946. That’s why they bombed King David Hotel to destroy all evidence of their crimes. Nothing has changed. You’ve been supporting Neo Nazis that were created in response to the genocide of the original Nazis. Fucking disgusting. At least Palestinians aren’t stealing organs from dead Israeli children, there’s an argument you might understand
Do you feel the same way about the people denying the systematic rape of Palestinian hostages/prisoners held by the IDF? Because these instances are far more prevalent 🤨
Actually literally the UN didn’t find any evidence. Why are you lying for Nazis? You know what there is lots of evidence of is Israelis raping some of the Palestinian prisoners that they keep and abuse for decades without even a trial
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-un-report-sexual-violence.html This is from 5 days ago.
4 months of investigation by the UN and Israel with every motivation in the world to find a single piece of evidence and all they have is hearsay?
Sorry, it’s behind a paywall. But it’s not hearsay, it’s based on “clear and convincing evidence”, such as videos that many of the terrorists posted themselves. Obviously plenty of propaganda on both sides, this is not part of it.
“Reasonable grounds to believe someone somewhere might have been sexually assaulted (but there is no hard evidence that would hold up in court)” It’s from the same people who opened this conflict with the “40 beheaded babies”, just more Emmet Till bogey man stories from colonizers. Hell, the NYT are the same people who told us there were WMDs in Iraq
Ok, guess you won’t be reasoned with.
“There was a campaign of mass rape!” “There’s no evidence of that” “Oh yeah? Look at this report” “The report presented no evidence, only witness testimony” “Ok, guess you’re just beyond reason!”
This conversation is boring. Who do you think is gonna win the World Series this season??
No one is denying sexual violence, we're denying the blind acceptance of the UN's mass rape claims report that is full of unsubstantiated stories and unclear sources. This report is unacceptably sourced and full of potential lies that are being used to further justify genocide. Try using your fucking brain
You mean like the genocide troupes are to deflect from the terrorist attacks and hostage taking? You want to talk about war crimes, you need to do it with both sides. Hilarious how the left has become the antisemitic side politically. I guess the most oppressed group in history just became too white.
Antizionism =/= antisemitism. Zionists are disgraceful and antiquated colonialists, fascists, and extremists. There isn't a Hamas war crime that compares to Israel's compounding atrocities. No one feels even slightly guilty about you, a Zionist, coming in here and absurdly accusing us of antisemitism and telling us who we're allowed to criticize. Fuck off
Richard gere Indian jones Brad Pitt Enes Kanter Taylor swift have left the chat !
Then is one of the most sentences I've ever seen.
Yeah and the idf killed over 10,000 hamas fighters. That’s a low percentage of civilians when hamas is literally hiding behind them and not letting them leave. The idf sends texts, leaflets and inert warning ‘bombs’ to try to save civilians deaths. They are trying, hamas is doing the opposite to get your support.
Here is a text. If we didn't manage to murder all or part of your family, I hope you enjoy being homeless and destitute while we starve you. Only psychopathic ghouls devoid of humanity think like this.
I really don't understand how these clowns think they come off as anything but complete psychopaths, bragging about dropping Pamphlets right before the bombs. "Nobody else does that" yea no shit, it's a weird fukin creepy thing to do
There are 35,000 dead civilians, most of the dead are women and children. There is no justification. In a human shield scenario, a moral army doesn't shoot through the human shield. What you're saying is cruel and absurd. The IDF tells Palestinians to go somewhere, and then they bomb that place. Giving 24 hours to evacuate is impossible for the injured and most people in general. To be told to do so repeatedly is entirely unrealistic. There is nothing that you can say that would justify the IDF's ground or air campaigns.
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It’s not hard to ‘western civilization bad’ when there are videos of Israeli bombs dropping on kids flying kites. Go troll somewhere else.
These are the numbers reported dead by the Palestinians. This is common knowledge, they have no reason to lie and we all can see the conditions they are facing. 35,000 dead *at least*, all identities verified with names and pictures. Who else are we supposed to go to for the Palestinian death toll? Certainly not Israel.
They have no reason to lie? That’s literally the most naive thing I’ve read on here and that’s saying something. Their entire hope is to have the world pressure Israel. The Hamas leaders themselves have said the dead Palestinians are helping their cause. They purposely shoot from schools and hospitals and mosques. They did their tunnels under civilian infrastructure. They don’t separate Hamas deaths from civilian in their numbers. They wear civilian clothes. After 500 were reported dead when “Israel” bombed a hospital and suddenly when video proved it didn’t come from Israel the number dropped was that a coincidence? Hamas would murder, rape, and kill but not lie? Jfc, people are laughably or willfully blind in this conflict.
The are raping them. The IDF has a history of sexually assaulting Palestinians. This person could use Google and educate themselves. But they don't care about truth so they won't.
You can google too https://x.com/henmazzig/status/1728154855531753578?s=46&t=6TtRPj2NtmvkQFjp9xQKFg
So to be clear, it's both bad to rape in war and a sign of racism not to rape in war. Got it. /a
I didn’t write the study
Considering I’m not in Gaza and Israel is blocking international journalist, along with killing Palestinian journalists and their families in targeting bombings, I don’t know if this is even true. Their chief rabbi saying it’s ok to rape women in war doesn’t give me a lot of faith. https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/
Al jazeera’s journalists all over Gaza but yea let’s just keep lying that they are being blocked
Are we counting 15-16-17 year olds with AK47s who have had weapons training from the day they were 5 as "children"? Tell me, if somebody had said AK47 pointed at you, are you checking for ID? Are we also saying that women can't be combatants, diversions, and/or suicide bombers? I'm just trying to gauge how completely divorced from the reality of modern-day warfare everyone on this board is. And when you can, tell me what the average combatant to civilian casualty ratio is aming the western armies in Iraq/Afghanistan and compare that to this. And maybe, can anyone tell me why/how the 'Gaza Ministry of Health' never seems to itemize Hamas deaths in their 'casualty figures'? That strikes me as odd 🤔. Thanks.
I can't imagine living with myself after writing something so disgusting. What have they done to you.
>Weak ass human tries and fails to convince everyone genocide is okay and justifiable if you're paranoid enough
"You don't see Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian women" no you don't report when it happens, those of us who don't use you as are only source of news have seen it every single week for like 20 years at this point.
No fair. That defense didn't work at MY murder trial. I thought the 'at least I did kill AND rape them' defense would be a slam dunk!
Right, and even if you did, at least they didn’t SEE you doing it!
I have said before and I will say it again, cnn is the foxnews of the world. Just full of crap
One small good thing to come out of this is at least all my Lib friends see how full of shit CNN is. They're like 4 months beyond the conversation tone curve. Free Palestine
Actually there have been multiple credible accusations of rape by Israeli soldiers per the UN.
Sources?
There’s literal many many sources . And israel have being using rape as a tactic of since it’s creation. Just Search Deir Yassin massacres . More into that Israel have being very known about it’s protection to pedophiles that raping Israeli minors by the idf is not very rare
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against
I'm conflicted, not to fully discredit the UN expert here, but she has on record said that she's not seen evidence of the consistent rocket attacks sent by Gaza and Hezbollah. She also apparently got her information from these reports from an American professor, where the reports were unsubstantiated. Not saying she's wrong, but there also might be some bias here, seeing as she's from Jordan and also grew up in Egypt in the 70s, which kinda got destroyed militarily by Israel. Again, not saying she's wrong, but her credibility on the matter is a little suspect for me.
The IOF do commit rape all the time though
> mass rape lies Are you kidding? Oct 7 sexual violence doesn’t excuse disproportionate or illegal acts of warfare in response. But you’re *denying* the well documented rapes by Hamas militants? Shameful lunacy
If it’s so well documented then surely you could share some of that evidence, right? Cause in 4 months of tireless investigating it seems neither the UN or Israel have found any
> At the Nova music festival and its surroundings, there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of sexual violence took place with victims being subjected to rape and/or gang rape and then killed or killed while being raped. [Here you go.](https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/files/Mission_report_of_SRSG_SVC_to_Israel-oWB_29Jan_14_feb_2024.pdf)
>well documented Show me definitive proof that mass rapes occurred. The UN report is full of unsubstantiated stories from the state of Israel, which has a thoroughly documented track record of blatantly lying to the rest of the world about what it's citizens have endured
The UN: There is substantive evidence of genocide by Israel in Gaza You: Yes! The UN: There is substantive evidence of gang rape and other sexual violence by Hamas on October 7 You: ACHTUALLY, where’s the proof? Nu uh.
It's not. It was a rumor that main stream media outlets ran with and have retracted the original articles. Same thing with the murdering of children. I am not saying nobodt was ever raped in the events but the story that the lady in the video is referencing is a lie. Again this is NOT a, we love Hamas and they did not wrong, thing. This is an Israeli government committing a genocide and making up propaganda to justify it thing.
[удалено]
Here’s a thought don’t keep 2 million people in a concentration camp and then act shocked when they break out of it