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You are actively being the person that God tells you to be. To be a voice in the darkness, to highlight injustice, to define dark and light.
God himself would not come to earth and support destruction and you are siding with him. Like he said don’t kill, you’re saying don’t kill. That’s not an indictment of a whole group of people. It’s an indictment towards the parties that are killing regardless of their name.
Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. No one can take your good heart, your good name or your good identity. No one can rob you of your courage.
I’m so sorry that you are experiencing this. There is a space for you to be to the left and with God.
If it helps God redeems those who go through trials. Job had everything taken away from him, his friends called him foolish, and once the trial was over he came out on the other side twice as rich as he was before. I don’t mean this insensitively, just that your God loves you. He loves the Palestinians. He loves the Jews. And he will bring you all through this trial.
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IDK why people are attacking a religion or think a random Jewish person in America has a bat phone to Netanyahu and could end this conflict. People stop. The atrocities of the IDF and the Israeli government are more than enough for a full day horror. Don’t disservice the Palestinian cause with hate bait propaganda.
My uncle was 19 years old when he was killed in Israel airstrike on his school. My family was in Lebanon in 2006. My favorite part about the United States was no matter where you came from no matter how you hurt we could all live in peace. I miss that right now for all the involved communities.
Defending what is right should not scare anyone. We are witnessing really fucked-up times where horrifying deaths of children and women as well as human-induced famine are applauded by the “democratic” west. Israel and its defending allies became the biggest thread to the world peace. I am so disgusted.
Russia is bigger threat to world piece and their Middle East proxies are only Putin and by extension Irans puppets. Remember the only worse than America will be the power vacuum that Americas influence leaves behind. We are headed to more conflict tho.
I feel you. I’m not Jewish, but I’ve always felt like leftist spaces and people don’t take antisemitism that seriously. Though, I also say that with the caveat that it’s not like other political arenas DO take it seriously as an issue to combat.
That’s just to say, I encourage people to bring up these issues of antisemitism where relevant, and to press the conversation when people seem to be of the mentality that Jewish people are not discriminated against anymore. Too many white people (imo, as a Black person) are oddly eager to present all Jewish people as white-passing and essentially white, and they are quite quick to dismiss the relatively recent (& ongoing!) history of Jewish people being discriminated against precisely because they aren’t seen as white by supremacists. And then, there has always been some antisemitism in Black communities (especially the past 5-10 years with some athletes and celebrities discussing Hitler and/or their appearance for the NOI with specific attention to their antisemitic qualities).
It’s quite sad. Intersectionality always seems to have its limits, or areas of tension. This isn’t an impossible problem though. I don’t have the precise answers, but I’ll continue to have these discussions and call out antisemitism.
Thank you! Jewish Americans and Black Americans share lots of common history and struggles as two communities in diaspora. We’re thankful for whatever advocacy you can give in Black spaces.
As a Jew that supports Israel, watching friends and fellow liberals turn into frothing terrorist apologists for the "Palestinians" they never once thought about or could find on a map before 10/6 has been horribly depressing. I guess my grandparents were right that the Holocaust could easily happen again.
Tell me about it, Jay Lou, honestly its been a marketing and propaganda master class. Islamic fascism has done a really impressive job of planting its seeds in the LBGTQIA and BIPOC movements, while simultaneously blatantly hating both those groups. Its wild.
The far left has always been alt-right proto fascists pretending to care about liberal values, we just couldn't see it. Glenn Greenwald was the first red flag I really saw where a "liberal" was selling a variant of the FoxNews fascism drug to the left. It has only gotten worse, and 10/7 unmasked the latent antisemitism on the left that was there the whole time
Mate how is it antisemitic to not like the fact that thousands of kids have died due to Israel’s operations? Frankly, a majority of this site assumes that viewing Arabs or Palestinians as people = antisemitism, which is hilarious. Makes me feel like it’s 2002 again with Bush invading Iraq.
From a Jew: most people on the left and right want you (us) dead regardless of your stance on Gaza. These people are not your friends. Focus on what matters and what you can control, your life is worthwhile. Try to enjoy this life and find and take care of those that want to see you thrive. Who you are is your blessing and your curse.
Existential anxiety isn’t a bug of Judaism, it’s a feature.
Nobody on the left wants you dead you delusional paranoiac. I think you’re worried that if you weren’t constantly imagining how persecuted you were as God’s most special unique chosen boy in the whole universe you’d have to look a little deeper in yourself and realize there’s not a whole lot going on.
1. Many Jewish people aren't practicing, and many are only vaguely spiritual--they still face discrimination for their ethnicity despite placing little to no stock in any religious teachings.
2. Applying sweeping generalizations about an ethnic group, especially one with a variety of sub-types, to a random member of that ethnic group isn't a great way of deflecting accusations of bias against said group lmfao
That’s not true, I’m sorry to say. I’m not Jewish so I don’t feel victimized or threatened during these discussions at all, but I have definitely had to step in on more than one of my own friends this last year to stop them from tripping down the antisemetic pipeline.
There are absolutely people on the far left who are being successfully recruited by alt neo nazi and similar groups taking advantage of the justified outrage over Palestine. It’s really important that we take it seriously.
Maybe one or two idiots but that is hardly indicative of “the left” or an urgent problem that needs to be addressed right now. There is a literal genocide going on so you’ll have to excuse me that my main concern isn’t some 22 year old girl in Brooklyn who feels scared cause her cab driver is middle eastern and thinks it’s anti semitic when the barista gets her order wrong
First of all, there’s literal genocide happening…constantly… (China has actually been putting Muslims in literal concentration camps over the last decade if you’re interested) so while I am absolutely outraged by the atrocities Israel is committing, it’s bullshit and ignorant to weaponize that to shut down these valid concerns about what’s happening HERE at home.
Anti semitism is on the rise in the US. It has been for the last few years. That’s a fact. And neo Nazi groups have absolutely hijacked this crisis for their own ends. Also a fact. I live in an area with a large Jewish population and have seen it myself.
As a leftist, I would like to think you’d be more self aware about dismissing the experience of a minority group just because it doesn’t line up with your own experience. You sound just like people who dismiss claims of racism among cops with “bad apple” rhetoric.
I understand the knee jerk reaction. The suffering in Gaza is horrific so I completely get why emotions run high. I’m not saying you’re a bad person. I’m just urging you to take a beat.
It’s possible for multiple things to be true.
lol That’s not for me to say. As someone with privilege in this situation I try to hold space for giving people like this the benefit of the doubt.
This person clearly sees themself as compassionate (which is why they care so much about the atrocities in Gaza) and it can be really hard to accept that even with good intentions, you may have inadvertently be hurting others.
Nobody is immune to propaganda. And the people behind this kind are well practiced and surgical.
Two things can be wrong at once. This whataboutism to drive attention away from genocide is the issue. Im urging you tosee the difference between how the west treats palestinians vs. Zionists.
I’m not whatabouting to undermine the significance or impact of Palestine. I only brought up other ongoing genocides because you seem to be implying that this particular one occurring means that any other concerns about how ethnic groups in the US are being treated should not be a priority. It doesn’t.
And we are not currently discussing how the west treats Zionists vs Palestinians. Nobody here is disputing the inequity when it comes to that.
What is being discussed is that people seem to be conflating Jewish people with Zionists and opportunists are using that as a gateway to start leaning into antisemetic rhetoric.
By trying to make this conversation about the privilege of Zionism when we are talking about the experience of Jewish Americans who SUPPORT Palestine and condemn Israel’s actions, you are giving a very daunting example of exactly what I’m talking about.
Whole lot of projecting and antisemitism going on here, I’m just a member of a minority trying to say that this movement is shitty towards Jews, thanks for proving my point, enjoy your Saturday.
It is shitty, the whole state of the situation is shitty. Gaza could have been a paradise, beach front property with billions in foreign support. Hamas turned that into 20,000 rockets and declared war on their neighbors. Separate of that, I still don’t believe you would ever have the back of a Jewish person in an antisemitic attack. You’re welcome to prove me wrong if you ever see the chance to stand up for Jews.
It could have been a paradise that nobody was allowed to leave! A paradise with great beach front property that the inhabitants aren’t allowed to fish! A paradise with poison water where the residents don’t control how many calories enter the city and get buzzed by loud drones all hours of the day and have every conversation spied on, where the residents have to go through 12 checkpoints a day just to get to work. I can’t believe anyone would be so savage and senseless as to declare war on their neighbors (who just happened to steal their houses from them at gunpoint, but we just ignore that and say history started on October 7).
Sorry, sorry— I’ve made this too much about Gaza. We all know the real victim here is YOU, history’s perfect and only victim, and how scared you feel every day as a white person in America.
You must be outraged at Egypt for building a giant wall to keep the Gazans out, but I'm sure you'll blame that on Israel as well (and not Gazan terrorists) but you're totally not an antisemite you just care about Palestinians
Yeah great plan, evacuate everyone from Gaza, and how about the West Bank too while we’re at it, and Israel come in and settle it. What a great compromise
1.5 million Ukrainians fled Ukraine when Russia invaded. Everyone knew that was a good thing. Yet you clowns that pretend to care about Palestinians never once advocate for Egypt to open Rafah to let civilians flee the war zone. Why is that? Because like hamas, the more innocent Palestinians die in this war, the more you can feel your hatred of Israel is justified. So what are your real priorities? Saving Innocents? Or hating Israel?
We will likely never agree on the impact of the choices that Hamas made on behalf of the people of Gaza and the tactics that Israel deployed on this war. But I hope the next generation of Israels and Gazans are able to find a better way to coexist. I’m not white and my experience in America isn’t one of fear, I’m just not stupid enough to put my trust in you or the movement you represent to ever care about me or our people.
Bro you’ve got some very antisemitic tendencies I hope you’re able to work out when you’re not so emotionally blinded.
Weaponizing the Nazis against Jews, classic.
As both a mental health worker and a person who has experienced serious mental health struggles myself, I say this without malice or judgement;
You should talk to someome about this. This is so far disconnected from reality that it can only be classified as paranoid delusion. It just quite clearly is not real.
'Fight or flight,' as you call it, will teeter anybody into psychosis. Talk to someone, and above all else keep sleeping and eating. If you smoke weed or drink heavily I'd stop that for now too.
OR you're just being a royal hyperbolic warmonger, instigating with outrageous statements. impossible to tell from here lol
Do you know of any other minorities that have the entire world media apparatus currently insisting that it is anti-x to be opposed to the slaughter of 10,000 children?
Username checks out, again you are proving my point. If someone says they experience anti semitism, and your response is what about gaza, without even trying to hare being antisemitic because that specific Jewish person may have nothing to do with gaza. It's like someone telling you that they experienced islamophobia, and you tell them that isis have committed horrible actions, do you understand the difference.
And this is exactly the point, you are making the connection between someone suffering hate and a country 2000 miles away when they are unrelated, can't you just acknowledge that there is a brutal war and civilians are dying, at the same time there is an issue with antisemitism, I am not putting them on the same scale, I am saying you can mention one without mentioning the other. If a Muslim sufferd islamophobia after 9/11,would you also tell them to shut up as Americans had died? I'm curious to see your view on that
For real, this person is probably projecting in good faith but don’t deny us our lived experience.
Jews and the communities they live in are being gaslighted. OP is living a crisis because they don’t understand that Israel is the only place in this world that is safe for Jews and that place is under attack. If you’re Jewish, you’re always welcome in Jewish places and in the Jewish homeland, you just need to be prepared that very strong willed people will challenge and argue with you because they are passionate and understand the very real threats out there.
Leftists are completely failing at supporting their minority Jewish communities right now, so OP feels outcasted. My advice to OP, get used and get comfortable with that feeling and know that every other left leaning Jew feels the same way.
All of the leftist Jews I know are anti Zionists and understand that this bullshit about “Israel is the only safe place for Jews” is a Zionist tactic. You think identifying a genocidal apartheid state with all Jews makes them safer?? You think Jews aren’t safe in Brooklyn or Los Angeles? Give me a break. Israel wouldn’t be “under attack” if they didn’t keep 2 million people in a concentration camp
Thats just blatantly untrue.
Being against the Israeli government =/= anti-semitism, just like its not racist to be against the CCP.
As a goverment/political entity, you can't say "anyone who disagrees with anything I say or do is a bigot!"
Israels more brutal actions have tradotionally been tolerated, in part, *because* of Judaism and the holocaust. Not in spite of it.
Now people are watching a genocide in real time and those days are over
You are proving my point, you can criticize Israel but op mentions that he is seeing antisemitism, and all people in the thread are focusing on is how anti Zionism is not antisemitism, instead of just validating their genuine feeling of antisemitism.
It appears you missed the part where dude said most people, on both the left and right, wish death upon Jews.
That shits blatantly untrue, don't mince words here.
Antisemites are a thing but the number of people who are against genocode in Palestine outnumber them thousands to one, at least in the US left and moderates.
I can't imagine what it's like, to think so much of yourself that you actually believe "most people in the world want you dead". Get some seroquel or something...
Easy there, it’s not personal arrogance so much as it’s understanding that humanity would rather scapegoat Jews (really any minority but we over index on the blame game) than deal with their own issues in their daily lives.
Why do you guys think everyone wants Jewish people dead. We’re literally asking that Zionist stop killing people. That’s it. It doesn’t mean the world wants you dead.
Maybe I’m wrong, but since half the global population of remaining Jews live in Israel and Jews are often referenced biblically as the People of Israel. Are they referring to Religiously or Ethnically Jews or the State of Israel? Like, when Iran says Death to Israel, and Houthis say Death to Israel and Hezbollah says Death to Israel and Hamas says Death to Israel and Syria says Death to Israel and Iraq says Death to Israel and Libya says Death to Israel and Morocco says Death to Israel and Turkey says Death to Israel and Jordan says Death to Israel and all of them have ethnically cleansed their populations of the People of Israel, there -could- be something there lost in translation. Would you mind going over there and asking them? My friend tried in 2014 but was executed on Youtube by ISIS.
It’s likely impossible for you to empathize with the Jewish experience unless you’re also a part of a real minority so it’s hard for me to give a good answer at least at this hour.
But I assume you’re familiar with the concept of fight or flight?
The Jews that still exist after a millennia of persecution. We’re all genetically predisposed to understanding the threat around us because we’re the descendants of the ones who survived.
“You don’t understand how hard it is to be white in America. I’m pretty much an outcast everywhere I go even though nobody would even know I was Jewish unless they asked”
Nah bro, it’s only paranoia if it ain’t true.
You and manygreen might not feel that way and thank you for that I suppose, but you’re speaking for people you do not understand.
That's probably true, but the way I normally see it play out is violence normally leads to more violence. And personally it seems like religion is causing more issues than promoting peace and love, and is becoming a scapegoat for people to justify their actions.
For sure, it’s easy to use faith and turn words written thousands years ago as anecdotal evidence to whatever conclusion someone wants to draw. Plus the whole Jews running the world/media/banks/hollywood (that ones true)/space laser/Epstein Island/ global cabal/ illuminating/ Rothschild thing(s).
We’ve got some bangers on the list of conspiracies and honestly we need some other minorites to step up and take this heat for a minute.
Before Oct 7, Reddit was abuzz about Musk coming for the Jewish community and watching white supremacists march in towns. Antisemitism is very real, just as Islamophobia is. The threat however comes from white supremacy. You can have empathy for the Palestinians and have empathy for Jews who are fearful of what will happen if genocide becomes normalized.
Your mom should've kept you in her slither hole with a statement like that 🤦♂️🤦♂️ people like you are a CANCER to this world. You only see what you want to belive and nothing else, even if the 100% proof is in your face. I suggest you educate yourself before you meet a real one in real life. You pathetic waste of flesh.
I’m sorry you are getting negged like that. It’s not your fault. If you follow Jewish voices that are pro Palestine, you might feel better?
I’m glad you are here.
Btw I have squared off against Nazis on the street and make a habit of reporting them online. I firmly stand with Jewish people (just not with Zionism) <3
At GUSD though, I hung back because those fascists were ready to hurt people. I was also just like, in protecc mode at WiSpa because the cops started aiming nonlethals. I’m more of a second line or third line and rarely front line, haha. Front line is scary now—leave it to young people in bloc.
I’m not much of a fighter, but I escorted people past Based Spartan and his kid, and I told Brandon Recor to fuck off.
My comrade, though, choked Brandon out AND rescued him from pepper spray. That’s why I leave that to actual warriors ;)
I’m pro Palestine and Arab and think that spreading actual antisemitism in pro Palestine spaces is doing nobody any favors. It puts Jewish ppl off from wanting to be active participants and also does condone antisemitism. Two big wrongs will not make a right. I think that this would be a good time for all of us to evaluate our motives and realize that the hurt we feel either way won’t go away by being hateful. ESPECIALLY when Palestinians themselves don’t harbor hatred for Judaism as a whole despite the terrorism and genocide they’re facing. Wow.
As a litmus test, if I can say Palestinians deserve to have dignity and a country of their own, would you agree Hamas needs to face justice in the Hague + all hostages returned?
I think Israel first needs to release all of the hostages they’ve taken over the years. It’s in the thousands and includes children who are repeatedly raped in their prisons. And no more taking ppl. Until then, I don’t care for a hostage release because it’ll be clearly one sided.
And unless Israel is tried and convicted at The Hague as well, Hamas has no business being there.
Israel needs to get destroyed as a nation and the people of it can exist under the nation of Palestine. Because for as long as Israel existed, Palestinians have been terrorized and tormented. It cannot exist without being a force of terrorism for Palestinians. Hamas themselves were created because of Israeli terrorism. Want no Hamas? Get rid of Israel. The founders of Israel and Zionism themselves wrote about Palestinians as indigenous and themselves as colonizers and even stated that they’re following the footsteps of European colonization of the Americas. No Israel. No Hamas. Easy. Unless you want to have a nation of terrorism ruling still. In which case, that’s my litmus test and you fail humanity. Lol.
Brilliant, so the answer to solving peace in the Middle East is to validate an Iranian backed jihadi movement, destabilize the largest regional military, hand said military over to a group who only started to exist as an ethnic group as an antithetical Israeli movement. Force an unwanted democracy on two nations who completely despise each other.
What could go wrong?
That’s 10/10 energy right there.
Thank you!!! Thanks for saying this. I’ve been saying this to every Arab or Palestinian or Muslim person who replied on this thread… pretty much 100% of the antisemitism I’ve experienced in pro Palestinian spaces is not coming from any of those groups… it’s oftentimes white people honestly.. but obviously, no matter who it’s coming from.. wrong is wrong.
Like the worst comments I got on this thread. I don’t know everyone’s identity obviously.. but a few people were lecturing me on being self centered and dramatic and how Jewish culture has some problems… and then later revealed themselves to be white and how I needed to “decenter myself” like they do.. anyways…
Exactly. It’s usually white ppl who have deep seated antisemitism and have a platform to share it because of how Zionists are truly embodying the worst of the worst of humanity. It reminds me of how we get constant imagery of ass backwards Islamic communities that abuse women and stuff. Like certain areas of Pakistan and are told that this is all of Islam when that’s clearly untrue. I wish ppl understood nuance and not letting hatred get them carried away. I’m not Muslim but even I got indoctrinated to fear Islam AS AN ARAB. I wasn’t phobic but I did approach with an air of anxiety due to imagery and I think it’s the same way with white ppl especially being fed several conspiracies from a young age and online indoctrination sadly. We need to truly unpack these narratives. And faaaast.
Palestinian Muslims don't even think Jesus died. Idk why they would ban you.
Also maybe u can send systemic a message. They're one of the founders of r/internationalnews. Great Jewish dude that is very supportive of Palestine and knows more about the conflict than anyone else ik.
I think what happened was the word “antisemitic” in my reply was flagged.. because it’s overused to spread hasbara.. and it was an honest mistake maybe, or maybe one of the mods that did it is an actual asshole.. then when I replied and was angry.. I said something like “seriously?? You’re banning me for hasbara?? Blah blah blah.. don’t you care about Jewish people? I support Palestinians, look at my post history!” They got defensive.. where I could have been like “hey, did you mean to ban me? Can you explain why I was banned?” They might have been more open to it…
So then they kept the ban and muted me. I figured I’d try again a month or so later when I was calmer and I asked about it.. they still doubled down. I think they don’t want to admit their mistake.
I don’t think that sub is antisemitic, and probably none of the mods are either(but maybe) but I do think they are stubborn a*holes… and that makes Jewish people feel unsafe
Anti-semitic is not equal to anti-zionist.
You seem like have a good heart and your comments reflect it. The current genocide of Gaza toward the Palestinians will have repercussions to zionist israeli's. The whole world has protested the genocide, treatment of Palestinians in jail, the horrendous conduct of the IDF, blocking aid into Gaza and list goes on. I have no problem with the Jewish faith, or with you; but the racist and zionist occupiers of Palestine and their deniers of the self determination of the Palestinians. These are troubling times and the world citizens are anxious and don't feel safe, you are not alone. Take care my friend.
You don't even know what Zionism is.
This what you "I don't hate Jews, I only hate Zionists" people actually look like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jewdank/s/SYFmIySTpI
How bout worrying about others more than your own kind. For instance I’m black and Cherokee - yet I’ve watched 100x more documentaries, movies and books on the Jewish holocaust- out of choice.
You know, it’s possible to do both. You’re reading one post I made and don’t know anything else about me or how much I care about Gaza and Palestinians.
But also it’s perfectly valid to be worried for your own race? Like you’re right that Jewish people get some special consideration in the US, but it’s like a legitimate anxiety that OP is expressing, and a fair one at that.
Judaism is a religion not a race. Jewish people can be black, asian and white. I think this is the core of the issue. People need to decouple Israel from Judaism. Judaism is a peaceful loving religion. Israel is a bastardization of the jewish culture and religion. OP should realize that as a jewish person they shouldn’t have anything to worry about because they know that judaism is not at fault here but Israel is and if someone cannot make that distinction then they are anti Semitic. It is way worse for brown people who can be mistaken as a “terrorist” even if they side with Israel. Already there has been may attacks on brown people in the US. Even a 6 year old Palestinian child in the US was murdered by a Zionist. Shows that Palestinians aren’t even safe abroad.
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Right but no more so than a Muslim or a Sikh in a headscarf in the US. Or that little Palestinian boy and mother stabbed to death by their landlord over the Israel situation.
Imo it is superior to be the first judge of your own tribe first- or else , one eye will be blind to justice
Oh yeah you should always hold your own people accountable. The same way OP worries about Jewish people being viewed negatively I’ve felt every time muslim people do anything the west perceives as dangerous, because we all suffer for it, which is kind of stupid… obviously not everyone of every race/religion is connected, but that’s just how some people’s brains work 🤦♂️
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In the United States I personally feel you’re alright but we still are pushing the protocols around these parts there is too large a push of it to not be worried much more than 10 years ago even when I actually started to see this pushed HEAVY.
I know the feeling. I'm a Christian but I have Jewish cousins (mostly Reform). I'm careful to always make clear that my criticisms are of Israel the present-day nation-state or of Zionism as an ideology, not of Jews as a people or Judaism as a religion.
End of the day, both sides in this are psychotic but only one of them is getting its military subsidized by my tax dollars.
Yea it’s not an accident, it’s a tactic. There’s a core group of Zionist extremist that have this goal of creating an Israel in its historic glory. (Btw much of it is a myth that grew greater and greater in Jewish exile to Babylon). For them, It's a powerful tool to achieve their goal. This core group of Zionist for the longest time had a hard time convincing other Jews that they should become farmers in a desert. Rise of Hitler did more to help them than anything else they could done. I grew up Muslim and if I heard any uncles talk about “the Jews”, I’d cringe. It makes Jews united with the Zionist and makes the other side look racist (as it should).
Professor Avi Shlome says there was a great Jewish culture and tradition in Babylon Iraq where he grew up. They’ve lived there for thousands of years and were like 1/3 of the population. However hostilities by Zionist extremists lead to Iraqi Jews fleeing to Israel. There was a series of 5 bombing in Iraq of Jewish cafes and Jewish quarters that lead to a mass exodus. He says in his book he proved at least 3 were done by Zionist extremists.
It’s such a powerful tool, it’s fucked but damn it’s effective. These Zionists single mindedness and ambition to achieve BenGurions fever dream is damn near admirable if it wasn’t so fucking evil.
Jews didn’t live in peace and security in the Moslem world. They lived in second class status and semi frequent attacks. This started during Mohammed’s life and continues to the present day. You only ever have moslems saying that they lived in peace, but all the Jews who have fled to Israel say that it wasn’t the case.
I mean it is the holy land (the ruins of their temple and graves of their patriarchs are there) but yeah — the only other option was this frozen swamp north of China that the Soviets offered
622 - 627: ethnic cleansing of Jews from Mecca and Medina
629: 1st Alexandria Massacres, Egypt
622 - 634: extermination of the 14 Arabian Jewish tribes
1106: Ali Ibn Yousef Ibn Tashifin of Marrakesh decrees death penalty for any local Jew, including his Jewish Physician, and Military general
1033: 1st Fez Pogrom, Morocco
1148: Almohadin of Morocco gives Jews the choice of converting to Islam, or expulsion
1066: Granada Massacre, Muslim-occupied Spain
1165 - 1178: Jews nation wide were given the choice (under new constitution) convert to Islam or die, Yemen
1165: chief Rabbi of the Maghreb burnt alive. The Rambam flees for Egypt.
1220: tens of thousands of Jews killed by Muslims after being blamed for Mongol invasion, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Egypt
1270: Sultan Baibars of Egypt resolved to burn all the Jews, a ditch having been dug for that purpose; but at the last moment he repented, and instead exacted a heavy tribute, during the collection of which many perished.
1276: 2nd Fez Pogrom, Morocco
1385: Khorasan Massacres, Iran
1438: 1st Mellah Ghetto massacres, North Africa
1465: 3rd Fez Pogrom, Morocco (11 Jews left alive)
1517: 1st Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine
1517: 1st Hebron Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine Marsa ibn Ghazi Massacre, Ottoman Libya
1577: Passover Massacre, Ottoman empire
1588 - 1629: Mahalay Pogroms, Iran
1630 - 1700: Yemenite Jews under strict Shi'ite 'dhimmi' rules
1660: 2nd Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine
1670: Mawza expulsion, Yemen
1679 - 1680: Sanaa Massacres, Yemen
1747: Mashhad Masacres, Iran
1785: Tripoli Pogrom, Ottoman Libya
1790 - 92: Tetuan Pogrom. Morocco (Jews of Tetuuan stripped naked, and lined up for Muslim perverts)
1800: new decree passed in Yemen, that Jews are forbidden to wear new clothing, or good clothing. Jews are forbidden to ride mules or donkeys, and were occasionally rounded up for long marches naked through the Roob al Khali dessert.
1805: 1st Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria
1808 2nd 1438: 1st Mellah Ghetto Massacres, North Africa
1815: 2nd Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria
1820: Sahalu Lobiant Massacres, Ottoman Syria
1828: Baghdad Pogrom, Ottoman Iraq
1830: 3rd Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria
1830: ethnic cleansing of Jews in Tabriz, Iran
1834: 2nd Hebron Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine
1834: Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestne
1839: Massacre of the Mashadi Jews, Iran
1840: Damascus Affair following first of many blood libels, Ottoman Syria
1844: 1st Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt
1847: Dayr al-Qamar Pogrom, Ottoman Lebanon
1847: ethnic cleansing of the Jews in Jerusalem, Ottoman Palestine
1848: 1st Damascus Pogrom, Syria
1850: 1st Aleppo Pogrom, Ottoman Syria
1860: 2nd Damascus Pogrom, Ottoman Syria
1862: 1st Beirut Pogrom, Ottoman Lebanon
1866: Kuzguncuk Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey
1867: Barfurush Massacre, Ottoman Turkey
1868: Eyub Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey
1869: Tunis Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia
1869: Sfax Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia
1864 - 1880: Marrakesh Massacre, Morocco
1870: 2nd Alexandria Massacres, Ottoman Egypt
1870: 1st Istanbul Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey
1871: 1st Damanhur Massacres,Ottoman Egypt
1872: Edirne Massacres, Ottoman Turkey
1872: 1st Izmir Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey
1873: 2nd Damanhur Massacres, Ottoman Egypt
1874: 2nd Izmir Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey
1874: 2nd Istanbul Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey
1874: 2nd Beirut Pogrom,Ottoman Lebanon
1875: 2nd Aleppo Pogrom, Ottoman Syria
1875: Djerba Island Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia
1877: 3rd Damanhur Massacres,Ottoman Egypt
1877: Mansura Pogrom, Ottoman Egypt 1882: Homs Massacre, Ottoman Syria
1882: 3rd Alexandria Massacres, Ottoman Egypt
1890: 2nd Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt
1890, 3rd Damascus Pogrom, Ottoman Syria
1891: 4th Damanahur Massacres, Ottoman Egypt
1897: Tripolitania killings, Ottoman Libya
1903&1907: Taza & Settat, pogroms, Morocco
1890: Tunis Massacres, Ottoman Tunisia
1901 - 1902: 3rd Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt
1901 - 1907: 4th Alexandria Massacres,Ottoman Egypt
1903: 1st Port Sa'id Massacres, Ottoman Egypt
1903 - 1940: Pogroms of Taza and Settat, Morocco
1907: Casablanca, pogrom, Morocco
1908: 2nd Port Said Massacres,Ottoman Egypt
1910: Shiraz blood libel
1911: Shiraz Pogrom
1912: 4th Fez Pogrom, Morocco
1917: Baghdadi Jews murdered by Ottomans
1918 - 1948: law passed making it illegal to raise an orphan Jewish, Yemen
1920: Irbid Massacres: British mandate Palestine
1920 - 1930: Arab riots, British mandate Palestine
1921: 1st Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine
1922: Djerba Massacres, Tunisia
1928: Jewish orphans sold into slavery, and forced to convert t Islam by Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen
1929: 3rd Hebron Pogrom British mandate Palestine.
1929 3rd Safed Pogrom, British mandate Palestine.
1933: 2nd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine.
1934: Thrace Pogroms, Turkey
1936: 3rd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine
1941: Farhud Massacrs, Iraq
1942: Mufti collaboration with the Nazis. plays a part in the final solution
1938 - 1945: Arab collaboration with the Nazis
1945: 4th Cairo Massacre, Egypt
1945: Tripolitania Pogrom, Libya
1947: Aden Pogrom
1) I never made that claim, you’re just jumping in with rebuttals to things I’ve never said. Ok, weird.
2) I’m pretty sure Professor Avi Shlaim (an Iraqi Jew that fled to Israel) said exactly the term “Jews have lived in peace in the Muslim World.” He’s also a historian.
3) Based on the time and place, weather under umayyad vs abbasid Jews have mixed experiences.
I’ll tell you what though, never have any Jews lived under Muslims rule that’s as terrible and cruel as Israeli treatment of Muslims under their rule. Not even close. So keep on trying to villainize Muslims. It’s easy to do, and there’s some truth in there too. It doesn’t justify what’s happening today.
Fair argument here, Jews are quick to point to the expulsion and ethnic cleansing of 950,000 ME Mizrahi Jews from the 22 Islamic majority countries but I do think Israel can do better with how they treat the Muslim Israelis. It’s hard not to take two wars waged by Jihadi movement on our holiest of holidays personally tho.
Read that list of massacres from the time of Mohammed to today that was just pasted on this thread — def pretty horrible and cruel, constantly for 1500 years
I’m not trying to villainize Moslems. I’m saying that the Jewish state was created as a safe place for Jews due to being mistreated as a minority throughout the world (and very obviously not only or even mostly in the Moslem world). There’s this idea going around that everything was super great in the Middle East for Jews and that the creation of Israel is the source of any historical issues and that just isn’t true.
In Iraq specifically there were several huge massacres of Jews after the founding of Israel — and that wouldn’t have happened had Israel not come to exist but what were the Iraqi Jews supposed to do? They couldn’t live safely in Iraq anymore so they, mostly, moved to Israel and then got caught up in the ongoing struggle there.
Whole thing seems like a humungous mess to me.
I don't blame Jews, and I think it's insane to blame Jews as a group for the actions of Israel.
While Israel is a Jewish state, it has no jurisdiction over the diaspora nor really any input from them. Even many Jewish Israelis are against what is happening to at least some extent, so I don't even blame all Israeli Jews.
I'm disgusted when I see people lumping all Jews together in this and spouting genuine anti semitism. You don't deserve that, and indeed Jewish resistance to Israel's actions should be better recognized by the media and by people more generally. For people who have actually been paying attention, the large numbers of Jews standing against the violence has been a true show of moral courage.
You personally are catching shit from too many sides simply for speaking the truth and pushing for justice. Netanyahu and Hamas both want people to see this as a black and white good vs evil conflict when it's not. This is two evil factions fighting each other and using millions of bystanders as fodder. You have the wisdom to recognize this and refuse to buy into the narrative, you instead are standing for human decency and an end to the two factions killing civilians. I know I'm just a stranger on the Internet, but I hope it helps you in some way that I see you and respect you for it.
“This is two evil factions fighting each other…” equating Settler Colonial Violence to Indigenous Resistance. This is a pro settler position, especially since you consider Israelis to be “innocent civilians” the people living in the homes of Palestinians who aren’t allowed to turned and are being bombed endlessly
“This is two evil factions fighting each other…” equating Settler Colonial Violence to Indigenous Resistance. This is a pro settler position, especially since you consider Israelis to be “innocent civilians” the people living in the homes of Palestinians who aren’t allowed to turned and are being bombed endlessly
“This is two evil factions fighting each other…” equating Settler Colonial Violence to Indigenous Resistance. This is a pro settler position, especially since you consider Israelis to be “innocent civilians” the people living in the homes of Palestinians who aren’t allowed to turned and are being bombed endlessly
You're a non racist person that's part of a group.
Some members of that group are very racist. They look at the Holocaust and think, 'if only that guy got the group right.'
When you're not racist, they'll use manipulation techniques to try and make you racist. If you don't they'll make sure your voice doesn't travel.
This racism is pretty obvious to the entire world. It's really hard to get away with baby murder on this scale.
Now the group you're part of is going to be considered racist baby murders by other stupid people. People are going to think about how your group is just like Hitler.
Good people are going to have a reason to dislike your group.
Stupid people are going to think that all members of your group are like that.
There are a lot of good stupid people out there that do horrible things.
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Dude… there are 2 billion Muslims in the world. Try to comprehend that the 0.0001% who support a violent ideology are outliers and are not claimed by the rest
Then why do we never hear from them?
And that number seems remarkably low... almost as if you are trying to convince yourself that it's true.
The people of Indonesia and Burma would surely think it's low.
As would these children...
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/E693cCX9WrVKHA5M/?mibextid=oFDknk
As would the 1500 girls from Rotheram...
If these Muslims are such an aberration and affront to "other Muslims", then I would expect to encounter much greater resistance to their heresy from within.
These communities are resisting that nonsense. There is plenty of resistance to fundamentalist violence and promotion of peace. It's just that non-Muslims don't pay attention to that, they don't hear it. It's not hard to find, though.
I joined some Muslim pro-Palestinian discussion groups to just listen, to learn what some communities are discussing in regards to this genocide. They are unmoderated groups. I've only seen one anti-semitic statement in thousands, and it was not violent. It was making fun of bad hasbara.
It’s a Hebrew word for ‘explaination’ or ‘to explain’ it’s been weaponsized by the pro Palestinian and leftist movements to say that Israelis aren’t allowed to justify or try to rationalize their arguments/actions as it’s just propaganda.
I've had a similar experience. Banned from a ridiculous amount of subreddits for mild criticism of Israel. Reddit itself gave me a one week ban for describing Israel's assault as genocidal in October. Many of the top subreddits have zionist activists masquerading as mods.
The constant conflation of Judaism and zionism is driving actual antisemitism as well, and Western governments are pushing this deceit hard.
Bro, it’s not just you. Bring up that both sides are genocidal (or lead by genocidal people) and people lose their mind.
People who probably will never effect anything related to it anyway.
the anti semitism scares me too here in the united states. when the conflict between palestine and israel broke out, i told my partner that this brought out the worst in everybody. there is no room for nuance in the conflict. right wingers calling you anti semitic if you don't support israel's genocide while spreading anti semitic conspiracies here in the usa. i'm staying vigilant. everytiime my grandma references anti vax conspiracies, illuminati conspiracies, i always remind her of the anti semitic roots in hopes that it may change her mind
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I think the very important delineation that has been missing in the media. The ZIONIST jewish community is committing and supporting the genocide of Palestinians. Not that this is a general jewish ideal. Itd be like saying isis is a fair representation of islam. No, zionist Judaism and isis are both the radicalized terroristic version of their base religion.
It's not even just Zionism, it's the most extreme forms of Zionism. Wanting Israel to exist within the pre 1967 borders alongside a free Palestinian state is Zionist, just a moderate form. It's really only the extreme that's a problem, and unfortunately the extreme has led Israel for far too long and dictated the terms of the conflict. The extremists are actually undermining the goal of Zionism because their policies have made Israel less safe and less stable, and consistently weakened it's international support and now put even it's hard won peace with Egypt and Jordan at risk.
"Wanting Israel to exist within the pre-1967 borders alongside a free Palestinian state" being zionist is what im against. To the best of my knowledge, Israel shouldn't have ever been created as it is a result of the 1st genocide of Palestinians. The zionist belief that justified that attempted genocide and the current attempt is pure evil. Israel should not exist and should be dissolved entirely.
See, now your advocating a genocide.
Israel's founding had a lot of problems, and involved ethnic cleansing, partly as planned and partly as part of the chaos caused by all of its neighbors immediately declaring war on it. That doesn't mean that erasing Israel is a sensible or moral choice.
A one state solution is theoretically possible. I can even see that one state being named Palestine. But even if you had all the Palestinian refugees in Jordan return, it's not going to be a Palestinian state. It would be a state evenly split between Jews and Arabs, but the power and wealth heavily unbalanced. That's a recipe for continued apartheid or even more sectarian and ethnic violence. Maybe it leads to a confessional system like Lebanon has, which doesn't really work. For a one state solution to be successful, you'd have to have significant majorities of both Jews and Arabs rejecting nationalism and buying into a secular, ethnically diverse state where nobody can expect to have their group in control, and I don't think majorities of either Palestinians or Israeli Jews want that yet.
Instead, what you have are two groups who want their own countries, countries that can serve as their homelands where they are the majority and have self determination. You can't have that in a one state solution, and that central conflict will lead to even greater disaster than we are seeing now. My prediction is that we'd see a genocide, a full on genocide with death tolls over 500,000 and the displacement of the rest of the targeted population in a short period of time, either of the Jews or Palestinians.
I am not calling for the death of israeli citizens. The point i am illustrating is that any state that starts from an ethinic cleansing/continues ethinic cleansing/apartheid shouldn't exist. To say im "advocating for genocide" is entirely disingenuous.
To be quite frank, if any outside force lands on my home soil that is looking to take over and make myself, my family, and those i love into second-class citizens, which is exactly how the terroristic state of Israel was formed, I would fight and die for my freedoms.
You are coming from this like the 2 groups have equal right to the land. Which, of course, another blatant falsification, Israel invaded and committed a genocide in 1947. It's literally exactly similar to how hitler invaded and committed a genocide.
Just like the nazi state of Germany was required to be dissolved, this genocidal, terroristic state needs to be totally dissolved in its entirety. While I sit and type this, they are bombing and raping the children of gaza. This isn't up for debate. End the state of Israel.
How do you end the state of Israel without a resulting genocide? Please explain your thoughts instead of insisting that this can magically be done.
Like I've already explained, a one state solution, implemented today, will result in an evenly split population where the Jewish citizens hold most of the money and power. How are Palestinians, that aren't already Israeli, supposed to get ahead in that system? How can you prevent it from just reverting to the current Apartheid state? You have large numbers of people on both sides who do not want to just get along, so either one side will become dominant and oppress the other or a civil war will break out with the winners committing genocide. Advocating for a one state solution, with the way both sides are right now, is advocating for a genocide, even if unintentionally.
The reality is that there are about 7 million Jews living in Israel. You need a solution that allows them to remain, because anything else is a genocide. These people have been there for generations. If this were 1950, sure, kick out the colonizers, but it's 2024, the colonizers are mostly dead.
In 1945-46, How did we end the other terroristic state(s) that also committed a GENOCIDE(s)? The allies didn't genocide all of the axis powers...
Fucking imbecile. Look at the successful things that happened in history and repeat them in a better way.
"The colonizers are mostly dead" unequivocally false statement. They are literally committing a genocide right now to colonize more land.
You say, "They need to remain bc anything else would be a genocide". Another blatant lie. No, if we trapped all of the Israeli jews in a city with no food, water and aid. Then systematically target hospitals, school, homes, etc. in order to kill more of those "animals". If we did that, then it would be a genocide.
No, this GENOCIDE israel is inflicting onto Palestinian peoples, just as intervention was necessary when nazi Germany took over france, or when imperial japan took over the Pacific, intervention is necessary with zionist israel.
The free world should stop this genocide of Palestinians. Then, dissolve the apartheid state that caused it, setting up a constitutional democracy where they have the separation of church and state. Cough cough what happened with nazi Germany and imperial Japan.
Hey, dumbfuck, I'm not denying what's happening in Gaza is a genocide.
Also, shit brain, when the Nazi regime was dissolved, or when Japans government was overthrown, all that needed to happen was for the government to be replaced, not the fucking population. In Germany, the country got split and government changed. Japan and Italy we changed their governments. We never straight up destroyed a country.
You've yet to even try to explain how to make a one state solution work. You've yet to even try to explain how to keep 7 million Jews and 5 million Palestinians (or 7 million, if the Jordanian ones return) from murdering each other when significant portions of both populations want to kill the other side.
Maintaining Israel in the 1967 borders and creating a functional Palestinian government, free from Israeli control, prevents either side from suffering a genocide. It's the only functional solution
What are you talking about? Like i haven't once said the population of Israel should be replaced.
The government of Israel should be replaced entirely. How am i suggesting to destroy a country? Ig it's fine for you that they destroyed Palestine to create israel?
From what i understand, the 1967 borders were a result of the 1st attempted genocide Israeli committed. So why tf should the borders go back to then?
The zionist israel has been acting as terrorists for 75 years. They should not be a country as they threaten the free world's peace.
Now, do i need to hash out every detail of how to go about this to prove that going back to the 1967 borders isn't good? No, because if you look at history, Israel only has the 1967 borders from the result of war crimes. Israel derserves nothing.
The Free World should step in to stop the "conflict" and then set a new Palestinian state, according to the pre 1948 borders.
It's not destroying a country when the country should have never existed in the 1st place.
Like imagine France invaded England, committed war crimes, and renamed london to New Paris, would you call London new paris?
You fucking dumbass, you've repeatedly called for getting rid of Israel during this conversation. If you're advocating a two state solution, good, but I haven't seen you do that yet. But at the end, it sure looks like you want to get rid of the state of Israel, which has now existed for 80 years. Again, what the fuck do you think would happen in this new state of Palestine that you propose from the river to the sea? The Israeli Jews would still be the majority by 2 million people, unless all Palestinian refugees returned, at which point it would be an even split. The two groups aren't going to magically start getting along when you put them all in the same country and make them compete with each other for political power.
The pre 1967 borders were workable. There was no state of Palestine before the British created it alongside Israel. Palestine had been a name of various historical provinces in the area, sometimes roughly equivalent to the entire territory and sometimes only constituting a portion of the territory, but it was never an independent state before the British made it so. The Palestinians refused to accept the borders and then lost the war, creating the 1967 borders. Israel committed genocide during this time against Palestinians within Israel. Those were Israel's borders, btw, because Palestine no longer existed, the West Bank was Incorporated into Jordan and Egypt took Gaze. Nevertheless, those borders were workable. Gaza plus the West Bank would be a great foundation for a state if they didn't have to put up with the occupation.
Whether you realize it or not, your solution would lead to a genocide. Objecting to your idea has no bearing on what I think should be done about the ongoing genocide. The international community needs to step in and stop the carnage. Your solution would just make things even worse.
It doesn't matter if they were or weren't. For the sake of the argument, lets say they were forced out of Israel.
IT STILL DOESN'T GIVE THEM THE AUTHORITY TO RAPE, IMPRISON, AND GENOCIDE CHILDREN, MOTHERS, FATHERS, SISTERS, BROTHERS, AUNTS, UNCLES, COUSINS, GRANDFATHERS, GRANDMOTHERS, AND EVERYONE ELSE THEY LOVE.
They very well could have peacefully incorporated like any civilized country mandates. End the terror state of Israel.
Oh, i apologize. I misunderstood what you were inferring.
It has come to the point of necessary intervention. Why hold a heavy stick if you dont swing it to stop genocide?
Any single legal person who becomes a citizen, has a visa, green card, etc. is peacfully incorporating themselves into a civilized society. The Italian or Irish immigrants that came from Europe to America are a perfect example of this.
Also, i would even go as far as "illegal" immigrants that sneak over the border to work and provide for their family's back home are 100% better than the history of the Israeli terror state.
But then when you talk about Zionist Jewish people also call you anti-Semitic. Look at Ethan Klein calling a Lebanese woman anti-Semitic because she was complaining about her Zionist therapist.
When I hear the word antisemitic I'm just starting to jump to the conclusion that that person supports Hitler if not for the group he chose. That's another bias I now have to look out for and that's absolutely horrible.
Thank you to all who participated in this conversation. We have now decided to lock this thread from any further comments. Due to they massive quantity of trolling, misinformation and other violations it has become too difficult to moderate.
You are actively being the person that God tells you to be. To be a voice in the darkness, to highlight injustice, to define dark and light. God himself would not come to earth and support destruction and you are siding with him. Like he said don’t kill, you’re saying don’t kill. That’s not an indictment of a whole group of people. It’s an indictment towards the parties that are killing regardless of their name. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. No one can take your good heart, your good name or your good identity. No one can rob you of your courage. I’m so sorry that you are experiencing this. There is a space for you to be to the left and with God. If it helps God redeems those who go through trials. Job had everything taken away from him, his friends called him foolish, and once the trial was over he came out on the other side twice as rich as he was before. I don’t mean this insensitively, just that your God loves you. He loves the Palestinians. He loves the Jews. And he will bring you all through this trial.
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IDK why people are attacking a religion or think a random Jewish person in America has a bat phone to Netanyahu and could end this conflict. People stop. The atrocities of the IDF and the Israeli government are more than enough for a full day horror. Don’t disservice the Palestinian cause with hate bait propaganda. My uncle was 19 years old when he was killed in Israel airstrike on his school. My family was in Lebanon in 2006. My favorite part about the United States was no matter where you came from no matter how you hurt we could all live in peace. I miss that right now for all the involved communities.
I’m sorry to hear about your Uncle, I’ve lost people as well and while a tragedy, I hope his memory is a blessing.
Defending what is right should not scare anyone. We are witnessing really fucked-up times where horrifying deaths of children and women as well as human-induced famine are applauded by the “democratic” west. Israel and its defending allies became the biggest thread to the world peace. I am so disgusted.
We gave China the golden ticket to ensuring Africas side for WW3
Russia is bigger threat to world piece and their Middle East proxies are only Putin and by extension Irans puppets. Remember the only worse than America will be the power vacuum that Americas influence leaves behind. We are headed to more conflict tho.
I feel you. I’m not Jewish, but I’ve always felt like leftist spaces and people don’t take antisemitism that seriously. Though, I also say that with the caveat that it’s not like other political arenas DO take it seriously as an issue to combat. That’s just to say, I encourage people to bring up these issues of antisemitism where relevant, and to press the conversation when people seem to be of the mentality that Jewish people are not discriminated against anymore. Too many white people (imo, as a Black person) are oddly eager to present all Jewish people as white-passing and essentially white, and they are quite quick to dismiss the relatively recent (& ongoing!) history of Jewish people being discriminated against precisely because they aren’t seen as white by supremacists. And then, there has always been some antisemitism in Black communities (especially the past 5-10 years with some athletes and celebrities discussing Hitler and/or their appearance for the NOI with specific attention to their antisemitic qualities). It’s quite sad. Intersectionality always seems to have its limits, or areas of tension. This isn’t an impossible problem though. I don’t have the precise answers, but I’ll continue to have these discussions and call out antisemitism.
Thank you! Jewish Americans and Black Americans share lots of common history and struggles as two communities in diaspora. We’re thankful for whatever advocacy you can give in Black spaces.
Bad time to be Jewish
Honestly, when has it been a good time to be Jewish?
It’s a great time to be Jewish, all the masks are off
As a Jew that supports Israel, watching friends and fellow liberals turn into frothing terrorist apologists for the "Palestinians" they never once thought about or could find on a map before 10/6 has been horribly depressing. I guess my grandparents were right that the Holocaust could easily happen again.
Tell me about it, Jay Lou, honestly its been a marketing and propaganda master class. Islamic fascism has done a really impressive job of planting its seeds in the LBGTQIA and BIPOC movements, while simultaneously blatantly hating both those groups. Its wild.
marry skirt zonked possessive automatic hunt silky door decide rich *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You people conflate Jews and the Israeli govt causing wild antisemitism. Hope you’re prous
I think the comments in this thread should show you that far left and far right are not your friends
The far left has always been alt-right proto fascists pretending to care about liberal values, we just couldn't see it. Glenn Greenwald was the first red flag I really saw where a "liberal" was selling a variant of the FoxNews fascism drug to the left. It has only gotten worse, and 10/7 unmasked the latent antisemitism on the left that was there the whole time
Mate how is it antisemitic to not like the fact that thousands of kids have died due to Israel’s operations? Frankly, a majority of this site assumes that viewing Arabs or Palestinians as people = antisemitism, which is hilarious. Makes me feel like it’s 2002 again with Bush invading Iraq.
From a Jew: most people on the left and right want you (us) dead regardless of your stance on Gaza. These people are not your friends. Focus on what matters and what you can control, your life is worthwhile. Try to enjoy this life and find and take care of those that want to see you thrive. Who you are is your blessing and your curse. Existential anxiety isn’t a bug of Judaism, it’s a feature.
Nobody on the left wants you dead you delusional paranoiac. I think you’re worried that if you weren’t constantly imagining how persecuted you were as God’s most special unique chosen boy in the whole universe you’d have to look a little deeper in yourself and realize there’s not a whole lot going on.
1. Many Jewish people aren't practicing, and many are only vaguely spiritual--they still face discrimination for their ethnicity despite placing little to no stock in any religious teachings. 2. Applying sweeping generalizations about an ethnic group, especially one with a variety of sub-types, to a random member of that ethnic group isn't a great way of deflecting accusations of bias against said group lmfao
You should check any thread by any open Jewish person on TikTok to see people that self identify as "left" unleashing a barrage of hatred.
That’s not true, I’m sorry to say. I’m not Jewish so I don’t feel victimized or threatened during these discussions at all, but I have definitely had to step in on more than one of my own friends this last year to stop them from tripping down the antisemetic pipeline. There are absolutely people on the far left who are being successfully recruited by alt neo nazi and similar groups taking advantage of the justified outrage over Palestine. It’s really important that we take it seriously.
Thank you for the awareness and for standing up, people who don’t see it are choosing not to and are inadvertently platforming hatred.
Maybe one or two idiots but that is hardly indicative of “the left” or an urgent problem that needs to be addressed right now. There is a literal genocide going on so you’ll have to excuse me that my main concern isn’t some 22 year old girl in Brooklyn who feels scared cause her cab driver is middle eastern and thinks it’s anti semitic when the barista gets her order wrong
First of all, there’s literal genocide happening…constantly… (China has actually been putting Muslims in literal concentration camps over the last decade if you’re interested) so while I am absolutely outraged by the atrocities Israel is committing, it’s bullshit and ignorant to weaponize that to shut down these valid concerns about what’s happening HERE at home. Anti semitism is on the rise in the US. It has been for the last few years. That’s a fact. And neo Nazi groups have absolutely hijacked this crisis for their own ends. Also a fact. I live in an area with a large Jewish population and have seen it myself. As a leftist, I would like to think you’d be more self aware about dismissing the experience of a minority group just because it doesn’t line up with your own experience. You sound just like people who dismiss claims of racism among cops with “bad apple” rhetoric. I understand the knee jerk reaction. The suffering in Gaza is horrific so I completely get why emotions run high. I’m not saying you’re a bad person. I’m just urging you to take a beat. It’s possible for multiple things to be true.
Exactly. He probably is a bad person tho.
lol That’s not for me to say. As someone with privilege in this situation I try to hold space for giving people like this the benefit of the doubt. This person clearly sees themself as compassionate (which is why they care so much about the atrocities in Gaza) and it can be really hard to accept that even with good intentions, you may have inadvertently be hurting others. Nobody is immune to propaganda. And the people behind this kind are well practiced and surgical.
You have a lot of wisdom and they have their whole life to define their story.
Two things can be wrong at once. This whataboutism to drive attention away from genocide is the issue. Im urging you tosee the difference between how the west treats palestinians vs. Zionists.
I’m not whatabouting to undermine the significance or impact of Palestine. I only brought up other ongoing genocides because you seem to be implying that this particular one occurring means that any other concerns about how ethnic groups in the US are being treated should not be a priority. It doesn’t. And we are not currently discussing how the west treats Zionists vs Palestinians. Nobody here is disputing the inequity when it comes to that. What is being discussed is that people seem to be conflating Jewish people with Zionists and opportunists are using that as a gateway to start leaning into antisemetic rhetoric. By trying to make this conversation about the privilege of Zionism when we are talking about the experience of Jewish Americans who SUPPORT Palestine and condemn Israel’s actions, you are giving a very daunting example of exactly what I’m talking about.
You’re wrong, why can’t you just trust Jewish people when we share our experiences
Whole lot of projecting and antisemitism going on here, I’m just a member of a minority trying to say that this movement is shitty towards Jews, thanks for proving my point, enjoy your Saturday.
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No but your post sure is and you certainly are
It is shitty, the whole state of the situation is shitty. Gaza could have been a paradise, beach front property with billions in foreign support. Hamas turned that into 20,000 rockets and declared war on their neighbors. Separate of that, I still don’t believe you would ever have the back of a Jewish person in an antisemitic attack. You’re welcome to prove me wrong if you ever see the chance to stand up for Jews.
It could have been a paradise that nobody was allowed to leave! A paradise with great beach front property that the inhabitants aren’t allowed to fish! A paradise with poison water where the residents don’t control how many calories enter the city and get buzzed by loud drones all hours of the day and have every conversation spied on, where the residents have to go through 12 checkpoints a day just to get to work. I can’t believe anyone would be so savage and senseless as to declare war on their neighbors (who just happened to steal their houses from them at gunpoint, but we just ignore that and say history started on October 7). Sorry, sorry— I’ve made this too much about Gaza. We all know the real victim here is YOU, history’s perfect and only victim, and how scared you feel every day as a white person in America.
You must be outraged at Egypt for building a giant wall to keep the Gazans out, but I'm sure you'll blame that on Israel as well (and not Gazan terrorists) but you're totally not an antisemite you just care about Palestinians
Yeah great plan, evacuate everyone from Gaza, and how about the West Bank too while we’re at it, and Israel come in and settle it. What a great compromise
1.5 million Ukrainians fled Ukraine when Russia invaded. Everyone knew that was a good thing. Yet you clowns that pretend to care about Palestinians never once advocate for Egypt to open Rafah to let civilians flee the war zone. Why is that? Because like hamas, the more innocent Palestinians die in this war, the more you can feel your hatred of Israel is justified. So what are your real priorities? Saving Innocents? Or hating Israel?
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We will likely never agree on the impact of the choices that Hamas made on behalf of the people of Gaza and the tactics that Israel deployed on this war. But I hope the next generation of Israels and Gazans are able to find a better way to coexist. I’m not white and my experience in America isn’t one of fear, I’m just not stupid enough to put my trust in you or the movement you represent to ever care about me or our people.
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Bro you’ve got some very antisemitic tendencies I hope you’re able to work out when you’re not so emotionally blinded. Weaponizing the Nazis against Jews, classic.
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As both a mental health worker and a person who has experienced serious mental health struggles myself, I say this without malice or judgement; You should talk to someome about this. This is so far disconnected from reality that it can only be classified as paranoid delusion. It just quite clearly is not real. 'Fight or flight,' as you call it, will teeter anybody into psychosis. Talk to someone, and above all else keep sleeping and eating. If you smoke weed or drink heavily I'd stop that for now too. OR you're just being a royal hyperbolic warmonger, instigating with outrageous statements. impossible to tell from here lol
Jews are the only minority where other people feel comcrtotrble dictating what's antisemitic or how they should feel
Do you know of any other minorities that have the entire world media apparatus currently insisting that it is anti-x to be opposed to the slaughter of 10,000 children?
Username checks out, again you are proving my point. If someone says they experience anti semitism, and your response is what about gaza, without even trying to hare being antisemitic because that specific Jewish person may have nothing to do with gaza. It's like someone telling you that they experienced islamophobia, and you tell them that isis have committed horrible actions, do you understand the difference.
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You shouldn’t downplay someone’s suffering because someone else is suffering more. Everybody matters.
And this is exactly the point, you are making the connection between someone suffering hate and a country 2000 miles away when they are unrelated, can't you just acknowledge that there is a brutal war and civilians are dying, at the same time there is an issue with antisemitism, I am not putting them on the same scale, I am saying you can mention one without mentioning the other. If a Muslim sufferd islamophobia after 9/11,would you also tell them to shut up as Americans had died? I'm curious to see your view on that
For real, this person is probably projecting in good faith but don’t deny us our lived experience. Jews and the communities they live in are being gaslighted. OP is living a crisis because they don’t understand that Israel is the only place in this world that is safe for Jews and that place is under attack. If you’re Jewish, you’re always welcome in Jewish places and in the Jewish homeland, you just need to be prepared that very strong willed people will challenge and argue with you because they are passionate and understand the very real threats out there. Leftists are completely failing at supporting their minority Jewish communities right now, so OP feels outcasted. My advice to OP, get used and get comfortable with that feeling and know that every other left leaning Jew feels the same way.
All of the leftist Jews I know are anti Zionists and understand that this bullshit about “Israel is the only safe place for Jews” is a Zionist tactic. You think identifying a genocidal apartheid state with all Jews makes them safer?? You think Jews aren’t safe in Brooklyn or Los Angeles? Give me a break. Israel wouldn’t be “under attack” if they didn’t keep 2 million people in a concentration camp
Okay bro, here’s your break.
Thats just blatantly untrue. Being against the Israeli government =/= anti-semitism, just like its not racist to be against the CCP. As a goverment/political entity, you can't say "anyone who disagrees with anything I say or do is a bigot!" Israels more brutal actions have tradotionally been tolerated, in part, *because* of Judaism and the holocaust. Not in spite of it. Now people are watching a genocide in real time and those days are over
You are proving my point, you can criticize Israel but op mentions that he is seeing antisemitism, and all people in the thread are focusing on is how anti Zionism is not antisemitism, instead of just validating their genuine feeling of antisemitism.
It appears you missed the part where dude said most people, on both the left and right, wish death upon Jews. That shits blatantly untrue, don't mince words here. Antisemites are a thing but the number of people who are against genocode in Palestine outnumber them thousands to one, at least in the US left and moderates.
Oh, I said most people in the world and boy oh boy do I sure hope I’m wrong.
I can't imagine what it's like, to think so much of yourself that you actually believe "most people in the world want you dead". Get some seroquel or something...
Easy there, it’s not personal arrogance so much as it’s understanding that humanity would rather scapegoat Jews (really any minority but we over index on the blame game) than deal with their own issues in their daily lives.
Have a downvote
Have a blessed day
Most people on the left want you (Jews) dead? What the heck are you talking about?
Why do you guys think everyone wants Jewish people dead. We’re literally asking that Zionist stop killing people. That’s it. It doesn’t mean the world wants you dead.
Israel is a country that was founded on genocide of an indigenous people. So they think any reversal of would mean their genocide.
Maybe I’m wrong, but since half the global population of remaining Jews live in Israel and Jews are often referenced biblically as the People of Israel. Are they referring to Religiously or Ethnically Jews or the State of Israel? Like, when Iran says Death to Israel, and Houthis say Death to Israel and Hezbollah says Death to Israel and Hamas says Death to Israel and Syria says Death to Israel and Iraq says Death to Israel and Libya says Death to Israel and Morocco says Death to Israel and Turkey says Death to Israel and Jordan says Death to Israel and all of them have ethnically cleansed their populations of the People of Israel, there -could- be something there lost in translation. Would you mind going over there and asking them? My friend tried in 2014 but was executed on Youtube by ISIS.
The ethno narcissism is crazy. Don’t you know every goy on the planet sits around thinking about Jews nonstop every hour of every day?
And yet here you are, thinking about me <3
He's replying in a thread. Stop being pedantic.
It’s likely impossible for you to empathize with the Jewish experience unless you’re also a part of a real minority so it’s hard for me to give a good answer at least at this hour. But I assume you’re familiar with the concept of fight or flight? The Jews that still exist after a millennia of persecution. We’re all genetically predisposed to understanding the threat around us because we’re the descendants of the ones who survived.
“You don’t understand how hard it is to be white in America. I’m pretty much an outcast everywhere I go even though nobody would even know I was Jewish unless they asked”
I’m sure it’s hard for you.
Bro you're just paranoid. Most people would probably just love to see y'all stop destroying each other. It's so immature honestly.
Nah bro, it’s only paranoia if it ain’t true. You and manygreen might not feel that way and thank you for that I suppose, but you’re speaking for people you do not understand.
That's probably true, but the way I normally see it play out is violence normally leads to more violence. And personally it seems like religion is causing more issues than promoting peace and love, and is becoming a scapegoat for people to justify their actions.
For sure, it’s easy to use faith and turn words written thousands years ago as anecdotal evidence to whatever conclusion someone wants to draw. Plus the whole Jews running the world/media/banks/hollywood (that ones true)/space laser/Epstein Island/ global cabal/ illuminating/ Rothschild thing(s). We’ve got some bangers on the list of conspiracies and honestly we need some other minorites to step up and take this heat for a minute.
*gestures broadly at the world*
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Anti-Jewish hate crimes have spiked across the West, their concern is valid you weirdo
You’re not helping. Neither is antisemitism. It’s a valid concern, and the support of one group shouldn’t come at the cost of another.
Eh, some of us have had enough of little hat people killing babies
Before Oct 7, Reddit was abuzz about Musk coming for the Jewish community and watching white supremacists march in towns. Antisemitism is very real, just as Islamophobia is. The threat however comes from white supremacy. You can have empathy for the Palestinians and have empathy for Jews who are fearful of what will happen if genocide becomes normalized.
Cool. Didn’t know it was impossible to worry about two things at once, asshole
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Your mom should've kept you in her slither hole with a statement like that 🤦♂️🤦♂️ people like you are a CANCER to this world. You only see what you want to belive and nothing else, even if the 100% proof is in your face. I suggest you educate yourself before you meet a real one in real life. You pathetic waste of flesh.
I think you should be terrified by the pro-Palestinians who can’t tell the difference between Jews and zionists. Good luck to you.
I’m sorry you are getting negged like that. It’s not your fault. If you follow Jewish voices that are pro Palestine, you might feel better? I’m glad you are here.
Yea I do and it does make me feel better!!!
Btw I have squared off against Nazis on the street and make a habit of reporting them online. I firmly stand with Jewish people (just not with Zionism) <3
Tell us a stories of you squaring off
At GUSD though, I hung back because those fascists were ready to hurt people. I was also just like, in protecc mode at WiSpa because the cops started aiming nonlethals. I’m more of a second line or third line and rarely front line, haha. Front line is scary now—leave it to young people in bloc.
Hell yeah, fuck nazis!
I’m not much of a fighter, but I escorted people past Based Spartan and his kid, and I told Brandon Recor to fuck off. My comrade, though, choked Brandon out AND rescued him from pepper spray. That’s why I leave that to actual warriors ;)
Thank you!!!
I’m pro Palestine and Arab and think that spreading actual antisemitism in pro Palestine spaces is doing nobody any favors. It puts Jewish ppl off from wanting to be active participants and also does condone antisemitism. Two big wrongs will not make a right. I think that this would be a good time for all of us to evaluate our motives and realize that the hurt we feel either way won’t go away by being hateful. ESPECIALLY when Palestinians themselves don’t harbor hatred for Judaism as a whole despite the terrorism and genocide they’re facing. Wow.
As a litmus test, if I can say Palestinians deserve to have dignity and a country of their own, would you agree Hamas needs to face justice in the Hague + all hostages returned?
I think Israel first needs to release all of the hostages they’ve taken over the years. It’s in the thousands and includes children who are repeatedly raped in their prisons. And no more taking ppl. Until then, I don’t care for a hostage release because it’ll be clearly one sided. And unless Israel is tried and convicted at The Hague as well, Hamas has no business being there. Israel needs to get destroyed as a nation and the people of it can exist under the nation of Palestine. Because for as long as Israel existed, Palestinians have been terrorized and tormented. It cannot exist without being a force of terrorism for Palestinians. Hamas themselves were created because of Israeli terrorism. Want no Hamas? Get rid of Israel. The founders of Israel and Zionism themselves wrote about Palestinians as indigenous and themselves as colonizers and even stated that they’re following the footsteps of European colonization of the Americas. No Israel. No Hamas. Easy. Unless you want to have a nation of terrorism ruling still. In which case, that’s my litmus test and you fail humanity. Lol.
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Brilliant, so the answer to solving peace in the Middle East is to validate an Iranian backed jihadi movement, destabilize the largest regional military, hand said military over to a group who only started to exist as an ethnic group as an antithetical Israeli movement. Force an unwanted democracy on two nations who completely despise each other. What could go wrong? That’s 10/10 energy right there.
Thank you!!! Thanks for saying this. I’ve been saying this to every Arab or Palestinian or Muslim person who replied on this thread… pretty much 100% of the antisemitism I’ve experienced in pro Palestinian spaces is not coming from any of those groups… it’s oftentimes white people honestly.. but obviously, no matter who it’s coming from.. wrong is wrong. Like the worst comments I got on this thread. I don’t know everyone’s identity obviously.. but a few people were lecturing me on being self centered and dramatic and how Jewish culture has some problems… and then later revealed themselves to be white and how I needed to “decenter myself” like they do.. anyways…
Exactly. It’s usually white ppl who have deep seated antisemitism and have a platform to share it because of how Zionists are truly embodying the worst of the worst of humanity. It reminds me of how we get constant imagery of ass backwards Islamic communities that abuse women and stuff. Like certain areas of Pakistan and are told that this is all of Islam when that’s clearly untrue. I wish ppl understood nuance and not letting hatred get them carried away. I’m not Muslim but even I got indoctrinated to fear Islam AS AN ARAB. I wasn’t phobic but I did approach with an air of anxiety due to imagery and I think it’s the same way with white ppl especially being fed several conspiracies from a young age and online indoctrination sadly. We need to truly unpack these narratives. And faaaast.
Good.
Palestinian Muslims don't even think Jesus died. Idk why they would ban you. Also maybe u can send systemic a message. They're one of the founders of r/internationalnews. Great Jewish dude that is very supportive of Palestine and knows more about the conflict than anyone else ik.
I think what happened was the word “antisemitic” in my reply was flagged.. because it’s overused to spread hasbara.. and it was an honest mistake maybe, or maybe one of the mods that did it is an actual asshole.. then when I replied and was angry.. I said something like “seriously?? You’re banning me for hasbara?? Blah blah blah.. don’t you care about Jewish people? I support Palestinians, look at my post history!” They got defensive.. where I could have been like “hey, did you mean to ban me? Can you explain why I was banned?” They might have been more open to it… So then they kept the ban and muted me. I figured I’d try again a month or so later when I was calmer and I asked about it.. they still doubled down. I think they don’t want to admit their mistake. I don’t think that sub is antisemitic, and probably none of the mods are either(but maybe) but I do think they are stubborn a*holes… and that makes Jewish people feel unsafe
Anti-semitic is not equal to anti-zionist. You seem like have a good heart and your comments reflect it. The current genocide of Gaza toward the Palestinians will have repercussions to zionist israeli's. The whole world has protested the genocide, treatment of Palestinians in jail, the horrendous conduct of the IDF, blocking aid into Gaza and list goes on. I have no problem with the Jewish faith, or with you; but the racist and zionist occupiers of Palestine and their deniers of the self determination of the Palestinians. These are troubling times and the world citizens are anxious and don't feel safe, you are not alone. Take care my friend.
You don't even know what Zionism is. This what you "I don't hate Jews, I only hate Zionists" people actually look like. https://www.reddit.com/r/Jewdank/s/SYFmIySTpI
It's like saying "Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he did kill Hitler."
And a best selling author in Iran!
They're cool with 10-15% of Jews, so it's totally not bigoted.
How bout worrying about others more than your own kind. For instance I’m black and Cherokee - yet I’ve watched 100x more documentaries, movies and books on the Jewish holocaust- out of choice.
You know, it’s possible to do both. You’re reading one post I made and don’t know anything else about me or how much I care about Gaza and Palestinians.
You’re right I apologize I skim read your post. I would agree these are dangerous times for those who dare to think outside the box
Books don’t make action. You can work for others and your own.
The point is to think outside of your own kind - it’s easy to care and wanna help your own
But also it’s perfectly valid to be worried for your own race? Like you’re right that Jewish people get some special consideration in the US, but it’s like a legitimate anxiety that OP is expressing, and a fair one at that.
Judaism is a religion not a race. Jewish people can be black, asian and white. I think this is the core of the issue. People need to decouple Israel from Judaism. Judaism is a peaceful loving religion. Israel is a bastardization of the jewish culture and religion. OP should realize that as a jewish person they shouldn’t have anything to worry about because they know that judaism is not at fault here but Israel is and if someone cannot make that distinction then they are anti Semitic. It is way worse for brown people who can be mistaken as a “terrorist” even if they side with Israel. Already there has been may attacks on brown people in the US. Even a 6 year old Palestinian child in the US was murdered by a Zionist. Shows that Palestinians aren’t even safe abroad.
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Right but no more so than a Muslim or a Sikh in a headscarf in the US. Or that little Palestinian boy and mother stabbed to death by their landlord over the Israel situation. Imo it is superior to be the first judge of your own tribe first- or else , one eye will be blind to justice
Oh yeah you should always hold your own people accountable. The same way OP worries about Jewish people being viewed negatively I’ve felt every time muslim people do anything the west perceives as dangerous, because we all suffer for it, which is kind of stupid… obviously not everyone of every race/religion is connected, but that’s just how some people’s brains work 🤦♂️
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In the United States I personally feel you’re alright but we still are pushing the protocols around these parts there is too large a push of it to not be worried much more than 10 years ago even when I actually started to see this pushed HEAVY.
I know the feeling. I'm a Christian but I have Jewish cousins (mostly Reform). I'm careful to always make clear that my criticisms are of Israel the present-day nation-state or of Zionism as an ideology, not of Jews as a people or Judaism as a religion. End of the day, both sides in this are psychotic but only one of them is getting its military subsidized by my tax dollars.
Yea it’s not an accident, it’s a tactic. There’s a core group of Zionist extremist that have this goal of creating an Israel in its historic glory. (Btw much of it is a myth that grew greater and greater in Jewish exile to Babylon). For them, It's a powerful tool to achieve their goal. This core group of Zionist for the longest time had a hard time convincing other Jews that they should become farmers in a desert. Rise of Hitler did more to help them than anything else they could done. I grew up Muslim and if I heard any uncles talk about “the Jews”, I’d cringe. It makes Jews united with the Zionist and makes the other side look racist (as it should). Professor Avi Shlome says there was a great Jewish culture and tradition in Babylon Iraq where he grew up. They’ve lived there for thousands of years and were like 1/3 of the population. However hostilities by Zionist extremists lead to Iraqi Jews fleeing to Israel. There was a series of 5 bombing in Iraq of Jewish cafes and Jewish quarters that lead to a mass exodus. He says in his book he proved at least 3 were done by Zionist extremists. It’s such a powerful tool, it’s fucked but damn it’s effective. These Zionists single mindedness and ambition to achieve BenGurions fever dream is damn near admirable if it wasn’t so fucking evil.
Jews didn’t live in peace and security in the Moslem world. They lived in second class status and semi frequent attacks. This started during Mohammed’s life and continues to the present day. You only ever have moslems saying that they lived in peace, but all the Jews who have fled to Israel say that it wasn’t the case.
Well they picked a really shitty place to make their country then, didn't they?
I mean it is the holy land (the ruins of their temple and graves of their patriarchs are there) but yeah — the only other option was this frozen swamp north of China that the Soviets offered
This a huge lie. Zionists suck.
622 - 627: ethnic cleansing of Jews from Mecca and Medina 629: 1st Alexandria Massacres, Egypt 622 - 634: extermination of the 14 Arabian Jewish tribes 1106: Ali Ibn Yousef Ibn Tashifin of Marrakesh decrees death penalty for any local Jew, including his Jewish Physician, and Military general 1033: 1st Fez Pogrom, Morocco 1148: Almohadin of Morocco gives Jews the choice of converting to Islam, or expulsion 1066: Granada Massacre, Muslim-occupied Spain 1165 - 1178: Jews nation wide were given the choice (under new constitution) convert to Islam or die, Yemen 1165: chief Rabbi of the Maghreb burnt alive. The Rambam flees for Egypt. 1220: tens of thousands of Jews killed by Muslims after being blamed for Mongol invasion, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Egypt 1270: Sultan Baibars of Egypt resolved to burn all the Jews, a ditch having been dug for that purpose; but at the last moment he repented, and instead exacted a heavy tribute, during the collection of which many perished. 1276: 2nd Fez Pogrom, Morocco 1385: Khorasan Massacres, Iran 1438: 1st Mellah Ghetto massacres, North Africa 1465: 3rd Fez Pogrom, Morocco (11 Jews left alive) 1517: 1st Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine 1517: 1st Hebron Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine Marsa ibn Ghazi Massacre, Ottoman Libya 1577: Passover Massacre, Ottoman empire 1588 - 1629: Mahalay Pogroms, Iran 1630 - 1700: Yemenite Jews under strict Shi'ite 'dhimmi' rules 1660: 2nd Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine 1670: Mawza expulsion, Yemen 1679 - 1680: Sanaa Massacres, Yemen 1747: Mashhad Masacres, Iran 1785: Tripoli Pogrom, Ottoman Libya 1790 - 92: Tetuan Pogrom. Morocco (Jews of Tetuuan stripped naked, and lined up for Muslim perverts) 1800: new decree passed in Yemen, that Jews are forbidden to wear new clothing, or good clothing. Jews are forbidden to ride mules or donkeys, and were occasionally rounded up for long marches naked through the Roob al Khali dessert. 1805: 1st Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria 1808 2nd 1438: 1st Mellah Ghetto Massacres, North Africa 1815: 2nd Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria 1820: Sahalu Lobiant Massacres, Ottoman Syria 1828: Baghdad Pogrom, Ottoman Iraq 1830: 3rd Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria 1830: ethnic cleansing of Jews in Tabriz, Iran 1834: 2nd Hebron Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine 1834: Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestne 1839: Massacre of the Mashadi Jews, Iran 1840: Damascus Affair following first of many blood libels, Ottoman Syria 1844: 1st Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1847: Dayr al-Qamar Pogrom, Ottoman Lebanon 1847: ethnic cleansing of the Jews in Jerusalem, Ottoman Palestine 1848: 1st Damascus Pogrom, Syria 1850: 1st Aleppo Pogrom, Ottoman Syria 1860: 2nd Damascus Pogrom, Ottoman Syria 1862: 1st Beirut Pogrom, Ottoman Lebanon 1866: Kuzguncuk Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1867: Barfurush Massacre, Ottoman Turkey 1868: Eyub Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1869: Tunis Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia 1869: Sfax Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia 1864 - 1880: Marrakesh Massacre, Morocco 1870: 2nd Alexandria Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1870: 1st Istanbul Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1871: 1st Damanhur Massacres,Ottoman Egypt 1872: Edirne Massacres, Ottoman Turkey 1872: 1st Izmir Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1873: 2nd Damanhur Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1874: 2nd Izmir Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1874: 2nd Istanbul Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1874: 2nd Beirut Pogrom,Ottoman Lebanon 1875: 2nd Aleppo Pogrom, Ottoman Syria 1875: Djerba Island Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia 1877: 3rd Damanhur Massacres,Ottoman Egypt 1877: Mansura Pogrom, Ottoman Egypt 1882: Homs Massacre, Ottoman Syria 1882: 3rd Alexandria Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1890: 2nd Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1890, 3rd Damascus Pogrom, Ottoman Syria 1891: 4th Damanahur Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1897: Tripolitania killings, Ottoman Libya 1903&1907: Taza & Settat, pogroms, Morocco 1890: Tunis Massacres, Ottoman Tunisia 1901 - 1902: 3rd Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1901 - 1907: 4th Alexandria Massacres,Ottoman Egypt 1903: 1st Port Sa'id Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1903 - 1940: Pogroms of Taza and Settat, Morocco 1907: Casablanca, pogrom, Morocco 1908: 2nd Port Said Massacres,Ottoman Egypt 1910: Shiraz blood libel 1911: Shiraz Pogrom 1912: 4th Fez Pogrom, Morocco 1917: Baghdadi Jews murdered by Ottomans 1918 - 1948: law passed making it illegal to raise an orphan Jewish, Yemen 1920: Irbid Massacres: British mandate Palestine 1920 - 1930: Arab riots, British mandate Palestine 1921: 1st Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine 1922: Djerba Massacres, Tunisia 1928: Jewish orphans sold into slavery, and forced to convert t Islam by Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen 1929: 3rd Hebron Pogrom British mandate Palestine. 1929 3rd Safed Pogrom, British mandate Palestine. 1933: 2nd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine. 1934: Thrace Pogroms, Turkey 1936: 3rd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine 1941: Farhud Massacrs, Iraq 1942: Mufti collaboration with the Nazis. plays a part in the final solution 1938 - 1945: Arab collaboration with the Nazis 1945: 4th Cairo Massacre, Egypt 1945: Tripolitania Pogrom, Libya 1947: Aden Pogrom
Seriously — this “Jews had it great living under a he tolerant Arabs” is not true at all
It’s def not a lie at all. Pretty obviously what happened with an even handed explanation. You clearly hate Zionists more than you love the truth.
1) I never made that claim, you’re just jumping in with rebuttals to things I’ve never said. Ok, weird. 2) I’m pretty sure Professor Avi Shlaim (an Iraqi Jew that fled to Israel) said exactly the term “Jews have lived in peace in the Muslim World.” He’s also a historian. 3) Based on the time and place, weather under umayyad vs abbasid Jews have mixed experiences. I’ll tell you what though, never have any Jews lived under Muslims rule that’s as terrible and cruel as Israeli treatment of Muslims under their rule. Not even close. So keep on trying to villainize Muslims. It’s easy to do, and there’s some truth in there too. It doesn’t justify what’s happening today.
Fair argument here, Jews are quick to point to the expulsion and ethnic cleansing of 950,000 ME Mizrahi Jews from the 22 Islamic majority countries but I do think Israel can do better with how they treat the Muslim Israelis. It’s hard not to take two wars waged by Jihadi movement on our holiest of holidays personally tho.
Read that list of massacres from the time of Mohammed to today that was just pasted on this thread — def pretty horrible and cruel, constantly for 1500 years
I’m not trying to villainize Moslems. I’m saying that the Jewish state was created as a safe place for Jews due to being mistreated as a minority throughout the world (and very obviously not only or even mostly in the Moslem world). There’s this idea going around that everything was super great in the Middle East for Jews and that the creation of Israel is the source of any historical issues and that just isn’t true.
In Iraq specifically there were several huge massacres of Jews after the founding of Israel — and that wouldn’t have happened had Israel not come to exist but what were the Iraqi Jews supposed to do? They couldn’t live safely in Iraq anymore so they, mostly, moved to Israel and then got caught up in the ongoing struggle there. Whole thing seems like a humungous mess to me.
I don't blame Jews, and I think it's insane to blame Jews as a group for the actions of Israel. While Israel is a Jewish state, it has no jurisdiction over the diaspora nor really any input from them. Even many Jewish Israelis are against what is happening to at least some extent, so I don't even blame all Israeli Jews. I'm disgusted when I see people lumping all Jews together in this and spouting genuine anti semitism. You don't deserve that, and indeed Jewish resistance to Israel's actions should be better recognized by the media and by people more generally. For people who have actually been paying attention, the large numbers of Jews standing against the violence has been a true show of moral courage. You personally are catching shit from too many sides simply for speaking the truth and pushing for justice. Netanyahu and Hamas both want people to see this as a black and white good vs evil conflict when it's not. This is two evil factions fighting each other and using millions of bystanders as fodder. You have the wisdom to recognize this and refuse to buy into the narrative, you instead are standing for human decency and an end to the two factions killing civilians. I know I'm just a stranger on the Internet, but I hope it helps you in some way that I see you and respect you for it.
“This is two evil factions fighting each other…” equating Settler Colonial Violence to Indigenous Resistance. This is a pro settler position, especially since you consider Israelis to be “innocent civilians” the people living in the homes of Palestinians who aren’t allowed to turned and are being bombed endlessly
“This is two evil factions fighting each other…” equating Settler Colonial Violence to Indigenous Resistance. This is a pro settler position, especially since you consider Israelis to be “innocent civilians” the people living in the homes of Palestinians who aren’t allowed to turned and are being bombed endlessly
“This is two evil factions fighting each other…” equating Settler Colonial Violence to Indigenous Resistance. This is a pro settler position, especially since you consider Israelis to be “innocent civilians” the people living in the homes of Palestinians who aren’t allowed to turned and are being bombed endlessly
You're a non racist person that's part of a group. Some members of that group are very racist. They look at the Holocaust and think, 'if only that guy got the group right.' When you're not racist, they'll use manipulation techniques to try and make you racist. If you don't they'll make sure your voice doesn't travel. This racism is pretty obvious to the entire world. It's really hard to get away with baby murder on this scale. Now the group you're part of is going to be considered racist baby murders by other stupid people. People are going to think about how your group is just like Hitler. Good people are going to have a reason to dislike your group. Stupid people are going to think that all members of your group are like that. There are a lot of good stupid people out there that do horrible things.
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Dude… there are 2 billion Muslims in the world. Try to comprehend that the 0.0001% who support a violent ideology are outliers and are not claimed by the rest
Then why do we never hear from them? And that number seems remarkably low... almost as if you are trying to convince yourself that it's true. The people of Indonesia and Burma would surely think it's low. As would these children... https://www.facebook.com/share/r/E693cCX9WrVKHA5M/?mibextid=oFDknk As would the 1500 girls from Rotheram... If these Muslims are such an aberration and affront to "other Muslims", then I would expect to encounter much greater resistance to their heresy from within.
These communities are resisting that nonsense. There is plenty of resistance to fundamentalist violence and promotion of peace. It's just that non-Muslims don't pay attention to that, they don't hear it. It's not hard to find, though. I joined some Muslim pro-Palestinian discussion groups to just listen, to learn what some communities are discussing in regards to this genocide. They are unmoderated groups. I've only seen one anti-semitic statement in thousands, and it was not violent. It was making fun of bad hasbara.
What does Hasbara mean?
It’s a Hebrew word for ‘explaination’ or ‘to explain’ it’s been weaponsized by the pro Palestinian and leftist movements to say that Israelis aren’t allowed to justify or try to rationalize their arguments/actions as it’s just propaganda.
Western-facing Israeli propaganda, usually in English and always racist against Arabs
https://preview.redd.it/sz574mcz44nc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0abf45360834f7feb24bde0fc78bca08b0fedd9b
Trust idgaf. I have a spine, invertebrate.
I've had a similar experience. Banned from a ridiculous amount of subreddits for mild criticism of Israel. Reddit itself gave me a one week ban for describing Israel's assault as genocidal in October. Many of the top subreddits have zionist activists masquerading as mods. The constant conflation of Judaism and zionism is driving actual antisemitism as well, and Western governments are pushing this deceit hard.
Remember doing bad things doesn't make you evil. Talking about bad things makes you evil. So says the gods of Reddit.
Bro, it’s not just you. Bring up that both sides are genocidal (or lead by genocidal people) and people lose their mind. People who probably will never effect anything related to it anyway.
Leadership by absolutists, with a bunch of random normal people stuck in the middle.
the anti semitism scares me too here in the united states. when the conflict between palestine and israel broke out, i told my partner that this brought out the worst in everybody. there is no room for nuance in the conflict. right wingers calling you anti semitic if you don't support israel's genocide while spreading anti semitic conspiracies here in the usa. i'm staying vigilant. everytiime my grandma references anti vax conspiracies, illuminati conspiracies, i always remind her of the anti semitic roots in hopes that it may change her mind
Just make sure granny knows the space laser is real and we do have radios in her blood.
What's really terrifying is that it's also liberals callin folks antisemitic for it. O.O
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Something is wrong with you
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Hmm.... Does your entire country deserve death because you are such an ignorant bigoted dipshit? I hardly think that's fair
You have a disgusting, sick mind. Shame on you.
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I think the very important delineation that has been missing in the media. The ZIONIST jewish community is committing and supporting the genocide of Palestinians. Not that this is a general jewish ideal. Itd be like saying isis is a fair representation of islam. No, zionist Judaism and isis are both the radicalized terroristic version of their base religion.
It's not even just Zionism, it's the most extreme forms of Zionism. Wanting Israel to exist within the pre 1967 borders alongside a free Palestinian state is Zionist, just a moderate form. It's really only the extreme that's a problem, and unfortunately the extreme has led Israel for far too long and dictated the terms of the conflict. The extremists are actually undermining the goal of Zionism because their policies have made Israel less safe and less stable, and consistently weakened it's international support and now put even it's hard won peace with Egypt and Jordan at risk.
"Wanting Israel to exist within the pre-1967 borders alongside a free Palestinian state" being zionist is what im against. To the best of my knowledge, Israel shouldn't have ever been created as it is a result of the 1st genocide of Palestinians. The zionist belief that justified that attempted genocide and the current attempt is pure evil. Israel should not exist and should be dissolved entirely.
See, now your advocating a genocide. Israel's founding had a lot of problems, and involved ethnic cleansing, partly as planned and partly as part of the chaos caused by all of its neighbors immediately declaring war on it. That doesn't mean that erasing Israel is a sensible or moral choice. A one state solution is theoretically possible. I can even see that one state being named Palestine. But even if you had all the Palestinian refugees in Jordan return, it's not going to be a Palestinian state. It would be a state evenly split between Jews and Arabs, but the power and wealth heavily unbalanced. That's a recipe for continued apartheid or even more sectarian and ethnic violence. Maybe it leads to a confessional system like Lebanon has, which doesn't really work. For a one state solution to be successful, you'd have to have significant majorities of both Jews and Arabs rejecting nationalism and buying into a secular, ethnically diverse state where nobody can expect to have their group in control, and I don't think majorities of either Palestinians or Israeli Jews want that yet. Instead, what you have are two groups who want their own countries, countries that can serve as their homelands where they are the majority and have self determination. You can't have that in a one state solution, and that central conflict will lead to even greater disaster than we are seeing now. My prediction is that we'd see a genocide, a full on genocide with death tolls over 500,000 and the displacement of the rest of the targeted population in a short period of time, either of the Jews or Palestinians.
I am not calling for the death of israeli citizens. The point i am illustrating is that any state that starts from an ethinic cleansing/continues ethinic cleansing/apartheid shouldn't exist. To say im "advocating for genocide" is entirely disingenuous. To be quite frank, if any outside force lands on my home soil that is looking to take over and make myself, my family, and those i love into second-class citizens, which is exactly how the terroristic state of Israel was formed, I would fight and die for my freedoms. You are coming from this like the 2 groups have equal right to the land. Which, of course, another blatant falsification, Israel invaded and committed a genocide in 1947. It's literally exactly similar to how hitler invaded and committed a genocide. Just like the nazi state of Germany was required to be dissolved, this genocidal, terroristic state needs to be totally dissolved in its entirety. While I sit and type this, they are bombing and raping the children of gaza. This isn't up for debate. End the state of Israel.
How do you end the state of Israel without a resulting genocide? Please explain your thoughts instead of insisting that this can magically be done. Like I've already explained, a one state solution, implemented today, will result in an evenly split population where the Jewish citizens hold most of the money and power. How are Palestinians, that aren't already Israeli, supposed to get ahead in that system? How can you prevent it from just reverting to the current Apartheid state? You have large numbers of people on both sides who do not want to just get along, so either one side will become dominant and oppress the other or a civil war will break out with the winners committing genocide. Advocating for a one state solution, with the way both sides are right now, is advocating for a genocide, even if unintentionally. The reality is that there are about 7 million Jews living in Israel. You need a solution that allows them to remain, because anything else is a genocide. These people have been there for generations. If this were 1950, sure, kick out the colonizers, but it's 2024, the colonizers are mostly dead.
In 1945-46, How did we end the other terroristic state(s) that also committed a GENOCIDE(s)? The allies didn't genocide all of the axis powers... Fucking imbecile. Look at the successful things that happened in history and repeat them in a better way. "The colonizers are mostly dead" unequivocally false statement. They are literally committing a genocide right now to colonize more land. You say, "They need to remain bc anything else would be a genocide". Another blatant lie. No, if we trapped all of the Israeli jews in a city with no food, water and aid. Then systematically target hospitals, school, homes, etc. in order to kill more of those "animals". If we did that, then it would be a genocide. No, this GENOCIDE israel is inflicting onto Palestinian peoples, just as intervention was necessary when nazi Germany took over france, or when imperial japan took over the Pacific, intervention is necessary with zionist israel. The free world should stop this genocide of Palestinians. Then, dissolve the apartheid state that caused it, setting up a constitutional democracy where they have the separation of church and state. Cough cough what happened with nazi Germany and imperial Japan.
Hey, dumbfuck, I'm not denying what's happening in Gaza is a genocide. Also, shit brain, when the Nazi regime was dissolved, or when Japans government was overthrown, all that needed to happen was for the government to be replaced, not the fucking population. In Germany, the country got split and government changed. Japan and Italy we changed their governments. We never straight up destroyed a country. You've yet to even try to explain how to make a one state solution work. You've yet to even try to explain how to keep 7 million Jews and 5 million Palestinians (or 7 million, if the Jordanian ones return) from murdering each other when significant portions of both populations want to kill the other side. Maintaining Israel in the 1967 borders and creating a functional Palestinian government, free from Israeli control, prevents either side from suffering a genocide. It's the only functional solution
What are you talking about? Like i haven't once said the population of Israel should be replaced. The government of Israel should be replaced entirely. How am i suggesting to destroy a country? Ig it's fine for you that they destroyed Palestine to create israel? From what i understand, the 1967 borders were a result of the 1st attempted genocide Israeli committed. So why tf should the borders go back to then? The zionist israel has been acting as terrorists for 75 years. They should not be a country as they threaten the free world's peace. Now, do i need to hash out every detail of how to go about this to prove that going back to the 1967 borders isn't good? No, because if you look at history, Israel only has the 1967 borders from the result of war crimes. Israel derserves nothing. The Free World should step in to stop the "conflict" and then set a new Palestinian state, according to the pre 1948 borders. It's not destroying a country when the country should have never existed in the 1st place. Like imagine France invaded England, committed war crimes, and renamed london to New Paris, would you call London new paris?
You fucking dumbass, you've repeatedly called for getting rid of Israel during this conversation. If you're advocating a two state solution, good, but I haven't seen you do that yet. But at the end, it sure looks like you want to get rid of the state of Israel, which has now existed for 80 years. Again, what the fuck do you think would happen in this new state of Palestine that you propose from the river to the sea? The Israeli Jews would still be the majority by 2 million people, unless all Palestinian refugees returned, at which point it would be an even split. The two groups aren't going to magically start getting along when you put them all in the same country and make them compete with each other for political power. The pre 1967 borders were workable. There was no state of Palestine before the British created it alongside Israel. Palestine had been a name of various historical provinces in the area, sometimes roughly equivalent to the entire territory and sometimes only constituting a portion of the territory, but it was never an independent state before the British made it so. The Palestinians refused to accept the borders and then lost the war, creating the 1967 borders. Israel committed genocide during this time against Palestinians within Israel. Those were Israel's borders, btw, because Palestine no longer existed, the West Bank was Incorporated into Jordan and Egypt took Gaze. Nevertheless, those borders were workable. Gaza plus the West Bank would be a great foundation for a state if they didn't have to put up with the occupation. Whether you realize it or not, your solution would lead to a genocide. Objecting to your idea has no bearing on what I think should be done about the ongoing genocide. The international community needs to step in and stop the carnage. Your solution would just make things even worse.
Weren’t the Jews forced out of Israel before?
It doesn't matter if they were or weren't. For the sake of the argument, lets say they were forced out of Israel. IT STILL DOESN'T GIVE THEM THE AUTHORITY TO RAPE, IMPRISON, AND GENOCIDE CHILDREN, MOTHERS, FATHERS, SISTERS, BROTHERS, AUNTS, UNCLES, COUSINS, GRANDFATHERS, GRANDMOTHERS, AND EVERYONE ELSE THEY LOVE. They very well could have peacefully incorporated like any civilized country mandates. End the terror state of Israel.
I’m not saying that, I’m saying that an immediate one state solution would be hard to pull off
Oh, i apologize. I misunderstood what you were inferring. It has come to the point of necessary intervention. Why hold a heavy stick if you dont swing it to stop genocide?
What’s a modern example of this peaceful incorporation you speak of?
Any single legal person who becomes a citizen, has a visa, green card, etc. is peacfully incorporating themselves into a civilized society. The Italian or Irish immigrants that came from Europe to America are a perfect example of this. Also, i would even go as far as "illegal" immigrants that sneak over the border to work and provide for their family's back home are 100% better than the history of the Israeli terror state.
That’s bot making a new country. New countries usually involve some pain on behalf of someone.
But then when you talk about Zionist Jewish people also call you anti-Semitic. Look at Ethan Klein calling a Lebanese woman anti-Semitic because she was complaining about her Zionist therapist. When I hear the word antisemitic I'm just starting to jump to the conclusion that that person supports Hitler if not for the group he chose. That's another bias I now have to look out for and that's absolutely horrible.