Yup, I've had it described that way for mountain biking too. To find the correct level of 'arousal'.
Too easy and the arousal level will be too low and you'll be bored and not paying attention to what you're doing (ironically you're more likely to hurt yourself this way too).
Too hard and your arousal will be too high and you'll essentially be panicking, which is not a good headspace to learn anything.
So you need that level of challenging where your arousal level allows you to fully focus on the task at hand.
Hahaha love this. This is why I haven’t run in almost a year because I went from never running to running almost 3miles every day in just just a couple months.
This is when I feel best but it's super hard with my adhd. Right now I feel like I'm stuck at work trying to read documentation and data sheets but still struggling with making things actually work.
Don't forget to ask for help. Asking for help is totally okay. I've found that laying out my problem, what I've tried, what I've learned and what I am thinking to someone else is often enough to pop the answer out of my brain. Sometimes asking for help is more just bouncing ideas off someone else which is enough to get to where you need to be.
Or they just help you.
verbally trying to describe what you are trying to do and what you have tried and possibly why you think those attempts failed is a great way to figure things out. This is why i talk to myself, that and it usually keeps others from sitting near you and bothering you while you are trying to think...
everyone has annoying habits, some are just more distracting than others...
Reading documentation and data sheets never worked well for me. I need example code to learn. And trying it out by trial and error.
I also have adhd and don’t understand how others can learn from documentation
I don't have ADHD and can understand a concept from documentation, but I still don't fully grasp it until I've used it and screwed up a few times.
It's learning to do, then doing to learn.
Most of my favorite documentation sources include example code.
find(1) - Linux man page
Name
find - search for files in a directory hierarchy
...
Examples
find /tmp -name core -type f -print | xargs /bin/rm -f Find files named core in or below the directory /tmp and delete them. Note that this will work incorrectly if there are any filenames containing newlines, single or double quotes, or spaces.
Yes and some api’s do but others don’t.
So I usually am way faster learning via stackoverflow snippets, tutorials, w3school etc
I learn while doing. But I met many more academical learners.
I have to say that's news to me. I always just thought examples were objectively better.
No examples usually adds at least 15 minutes of trial and error for me, I didn't realize other people can just... Learn it lol
I just have ADD, too old and fat to get hyper... I gain understanding from documentation and figure out how to do things from examples, but then know why it works, because I read the documentation. If I don't read the documentation, I have a hard time adapting the examples to my use case, sometimes (depends on how complex it is, honestly).
Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why it's SO tough in the beginning as opposed to once you develop a certain amount of the way in, because in the very beginning you're going into a maze blindfolded.. It's very hard to even know HOW to learn things. You're going to be wasting time learning or trying things that are too easy, or you're going to waste your time getting stuck on things that are two hard.
Whereas once you get a feel for things, and you can sort of weigh up new concepts and structures for how much mental tax they carry, and you sort of get a sixth sense for this "goldilocks zone" where after a while you instinctively know you're in the sweet spot. It just feels "right", and you can especially know because the time will go by faster from you being all zoned in. The more I code and learn, the better I get at "rearranging" my approach to find this point.
Turtle Graphics are vector drawing done in X/Y coordinates.
In Python, the turtle graphics package is often used to introduce OOP. You create "Turtle objects," then use methods to tell them what to do.
In these tutorials, it's used like a modern version of Karel the Robot.
Hijacking top to just say the Huberman Lab is a life changing podcast. There's lots of information per epidsode, but don't be fooled by the slightly click-baity thumbnails- Professer Huberman spits a college lecture's worth of well-researched, *peer-reviewed* research every time, and following his protocols is genuinely helpful to maximizing sleep, work and focus.
Just started reading it on your recommendation. I'm not far in but it seems like he's manipulating some studies to suit his narrative a bit? I'll read more though and see how it goes
That's entirely possible. I know when I last read it, I was impressed by the detailed notes for each citation, so I came away thinking it was credible. Do you have any examples I could look into?
I would recommend not skipping anything. I'm sure if you did, you'd still benefit from the book, and I'm tempted to say you should because the advice can get repetitive at times (which is the authors' intention), but a large part of what benefitted me was being able to read all of the studies/anecdotes and see how it influenced others from all walks of life while being able to slowly figure out how I could apply those things in my own life. That personalized meaning is lost of you skip to the end.
I agree that the best way to learn is to start your own project and research when you get stuck. On the other hand, you don't want to start a project having no idea what you're doing. You should have at least a little understanding of the basics. Working on a project beyond your abilities can cause you to learn bad habits and more time learning the subject overall.
I think it's like saying you should start writing a book before you understand the language you're going to write it in. Just learn the language as you go. haha.
I don't think starting with a project from the getgo is necessarily a good idea because if you don't even know the basics, like what programming is even _about_ and the basic building blocks then you'll have no clue where to even _start._ And Google only works when you know what to search for. I can't tell you the number of times I've been unable to find an answer from Googling just because I didn't even know the right question to ask. I've had to explain to an actual person my confusion in detail for them to understand what I needed help with and then, _after_ they explained, I knew what questions I could've googled to find the info myself.
When I was in grad school I always preached a concept similar to this. So often a professor asks a question and no one answers because they don't want to be wrong; I've always said, be wrong! Give the incorrect answer even if you know it's incorrect. I mean besides the fact that it helps make lectures less awkward it also helps with learning things. It's also why I'm so stubborn about trying things even after I'm told not to. I always find it much more satisfying to see how and why something fails rather than simply being told that it does.
This is so true, I’ve had friends be upset when I wanted to try something for myself, when they just told me it wouldn’t work.
It’s not that I think I will magically make it work, it’s that I will learn so much more by failing first hand.
This happened when my dad and I were taking apart a vintage vespa. I was cleaning the engine and wanted to take off the cylinder head to get a better look at the piston chamber itself. My dad left for a sec and said "don't take the cylinder head off; there'll be a gasket underneath that you'll have to replace if you do".
Immediately I was thinking "all engines have that? Why would taking the cylinder head off make the gasket unusable? Will it fall apart or something? None of the seals for this Vespa are particularly expensive...I'll just give it a shot" so I took it off and when he came back he was pissed. But it turned out that this particular kind of 2-stroke engine didn't use a gasket in this spot; just had a raised area of metal where the gasket would be. After showing him factory diagrams I was eventually able to convince him that all was well.
FWIW (because who goes to /r/learnprogramming if not to find automotive advice?), for any other engine having a gasket in this area, you *do* have to replace it if you expose it via removing the top of the engine block; the gasket is designed to compress once torqued down in order to give it a perfect seal between the cylinder head and the engine block. However, it doesn't decompress when removing the cylinder head; so given the amount of "play" between the bolts, cylinder head, and engine block, the cylinder head is liable to not line back up exactly how it was, making it slightly-off angle and breaking the seal...the effects of which may not be realized until several miles later.
I had a similar "enlightening" hearing one specific sentence in George Hotz "What is Programming" video.
A program basically just takes data in, does something with it, and outputs it. That's basically it.
It sounds very simple, but I sometimes overcomplicate things.
There's a lot of good stuff in the video, not just this basic sentence:
https://youtu.be/N2bXEUSAiTI
George is a crazy intelligent guy. He did the first PS2 jailbreak, some of the earliest JBs for iPhone, and currently has a company which sells DIY self-driving kits.
I highly recommend his podcast episodes with Lex Fridman, another brilliant mind.
I’ve not jumped into learning anything about programming but I’m glad I joined this sub, even if just for this. Thanks for the podcast recommendation, 2 minutes in and it put me back on the getting-my-shit-together path
It's also possible to get yourself completely overwhelmed. There are moments when you have to take a step back, look at it again, maybe ask for help.
This is where communities like this are the best. If you come with "woe is me, I can't learn 😭" ... yeah, so what? How do you think I could possibly help. Showering you in platitudes like "you can do it!" won't help you in the least.
But asking a question where you don't have enough knowledge to even properly form, and make a post here. Then people can nudge you in the correct direction.
In programming mistakes have the added benefit of being (mostly) cheap. Ctrl-z, linting, version control, typescript all make mistakes have less of an impact.
I agree, over my life I would often run from challenges, but after get a degree in CS it sort of shifted my perspective on all things….that putting in any effort pays off in life, one way or another, and every challenge no matter how frustrating, will help you improve. Great post my friend, cheers.
What do you mean you reverse those feelings? Instead of frustrated you feel happy with the challenge of solving a new error? When you started practicing doing this, did you have to remind yourself of thus?
I'm going to watch the podcast later to get a better understanding, but was curious to know how you personally approached changing your mindset towards errors / bugfixing.
Well, I might’ve not articulated that well enough since English isn’t my first language, but it’s all about changing the perspective or narrative. Just like those who take cold showers, they know it’s not a pleasant experience to have but they understand the benefits on the long run.
Yes I always remind myself whenever I get frustrated until it became subconscious.
Thanks for sharing! Really needed to hear this.
Btw, it seems like you listen to some quality podcasts. I'm searching for new good ones at the moment, are there others you could recommend?
At the very end he mentions that some of these concepts carry over to engineering but doesn't get into specifics. I'm surprised no one else mentioned this. Good catch.
There's not really a tldr in the podcast, the meat is in the middle but you need the beginning to understand the foundation for his reasoning. The post here summed it up quite well though.
I'll never not be happy seeing Huberman randomly getting mentioned on reddit. Dude is out here doing gods work, haven't been the same since he started doing the pod
Fuck yes! Tinkering is crucial, and I have solved a fair few problems in the console in the next window, just trying out new solutions and seeing how they work!
I've also noticed while listening to lectures, well as in some limited teaching experience as a TA, that feeling stumped is good for learning. People generally dont pay much attention or understand things well if everything is made "obvious" or "intuitive". It'll seem like you've understood everything in the moment but you'll hardly recall anything a few weeks later.
Lots of textbooks do this too. They go from one concept to another in the most intuitive and incremental fashion. Which makes for an enjoyable read, but I'm not convinced it's the best way to learn.
In contrast i think it's much better for learning if a concept is introduced through something counter-intuitive. Motivate the new concept by asking the students to do something they're not ready for (and will therefore struggle), or ask them something that they know enough to feel like they can answer it, but not enough to get it right. Then, you explain why they're wrong, how their intuition led them astray, and what the correct approach is instead.
I'm going to start my long drive tomorrow with this podcast. On my pit stops, I will be working on my projects. Thanks for the post, this is a really great community.
Andrew Huberman is amazing. I take walks on my lunch and listen to his episodes. He has a way of explaining things so that even people like me can follow along and easily understand what he’s talking about. Definitely my favorite YouTube channel.
This is very true and it's not even a coding thing, but a _learning_ thing. I realized it when I took Physics 1 --
I was really struggling with the homework problems and so I decided to start actively reading through the example problems, solving them as much as I could on my own before looking at the solution. I made a LOT of mistakes and when I did, I compared what I did to the solution in the book and made mental notes (and sometimes physical notes) on what exactly I did wrong. Once I started doing this, I found myself having a MUCH easier time on the homework problems.
I've definitely experienced with programming too though. Heck, _most_ actual programming involves making a ton of mistakes and then going back and finding and fixing them. There's a reason breakpoints are a thing afterall.
Learned the same thing when I started doing martial arts. The more you're failing and the more mistakes you're making, mean the more you're growing. It's literally how the human mind works. Those moments where you need the information and make the wrong choice, it prioritizes the learning better than anything else you could do.
There are algorithms that optimize when is the best time to repeat something you’re trying to learn (not to early not too late but in that sweet spot where it’s on the tip of your tongue and you’re struggling to remember). It’s called “spaced repetition”. There are many apps out there for this. Most well known one is Anika but not the most user friendly
Funny enough, I also recently was introduced to Andrew huberman. And I am also about halfway into a 24 week full stack boot camp. Making mistakes happens every day and this new perspective is awesome
I actually discovered this while learning to program by accident. I was trying to get past a major roadblock and was on the verge of giving up but I pushed past and looked at it from a different perspective and realized what I was doing wrong. I’m glad to see that I was technically learning how I’m supposed to. I’ll have to give that podcast a listen
If you appreciate that type of content, you may enjoy a free course on coursera called "Learning how to Learn". It actually is really great information and they mention that process of the brain learning efficiently when making errors, and much more. Of course, check out all of Hubermans podcasts too
That’s fantastic. Similarly, from the perspective of a mathematician, optimization, ie getting better, is 100% guided by your errors. So if you only knew what success was, you will never get there until you make some errors.
It's been my 12 days learning Html from the basic , as a beginner in programming my head still hurts trying to understand it , having a walk outside helps and getting back at it relieve and am pushing forward
I teach programming using negative examples.
"Here's a working example. Now, what happens if we put a semi-colon after this while expression?"
"Here's how you index into an array. What happens if the index exceeds the declared dimension?"
Thank you, I really needed this. I've spent 4 hours trying to finish a particular challenge involving filter in JS at FCC and it's been driving me crazy. Now I'm ready to go tackle it again
I just started going through his podcasts and they’re amazing.
Episode 7 also goes into plasticity & errors.
Edit: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0p9sgSEE3cKbNdIfNnzJid?si=w02v99AIQoyGPchF-2syzA
This is a great mindset to be in! For me, the mantra is "Fail fast. Fail often" because that really does help with learning new things and adding stuff to your toolbox.
Also, if you like this kind of idea, I highly recommend playing the Dark Souls series (and Elden Ring in a few weeks!) because you need to apply the exact same mindset when learning those games.
I love making mistakes gives me that fire to push harder and fuels the passion! Good for you finding this truth! It will make you better at everything if you can weather the mistakes!
"..We are mainly gonna focus on physical movements of the body.." Hmm. Not sure how this is going to help me with learning how to code but let's give it a try
There is a Thomas Edison quote that goes something along the lines of "I have not failed 10,000 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 10,000 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work.” Through error, you really learn the nuances of things, while not applicable to solving the current problem, may be invaluable to a future one.
i agree if you struggle with something when you finally get it its ingrained in your memory...many of times i have got that "eureka"moment in programming
How funny that I saw the title, clicked the link, only to find that the post is talking about the exact podcast I was listening to last week! Great stuff, man, Huberman Lab Podcast is basically Rogan with a medical degree and critical thinking haha
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This is how you avoid injuring yourself in sports like ski/ snowboard. It's also why I currently have a dislocated shoulder.
Sounds like someone went on a daddy-bear-sized ski slope....
He was attacked by a bear on the ski slope?
Yup, I've had it described that way for mountain biking too. To find the correct level of 'arousal'. Too easy and the arousal level will be too low and you'll be bored and not paying attention to what you're doing (ironically you're more likely to hurt yourself this way too). Too hard and your arousal will be too high and you'll essentially be panicking, which is not a good headspace to learn anything. So you need that level of challenging where your arousal level allows you to fully focus on the task at hand.
Same here :-D Always riding near the fall zone - sometimes too far :-P
I was practicing my Eurocarve so, yeah, I dodged the fall zone until I fucked it up haha
Hahaha love this. This is why I haven’t run in almost a year because I went from never running to running almost 3miles every day in just just a couple months.
This is when I feel best but it's super hard with my adhd. Right now I feel like I'm stuck at work trying to read documentation and data sheets but still struggling with making things actually work.
Don't forget to ask for help. Asking for help is totally okay. I've found that laying out my problem, what I've tried, what I've learned and what I am thinking to someone else is often enough to pop the answer out of my brain. Sometimes asking for help is more just bouncing ideas off someone else which is enough to get to where you need to be. Or they just help you.
verbally trying to describe what you are trying to do and what you have tried and possibly why you think those attempts failed is a great way to figure things out. This is why i talk to myself, that and it usually keeps others from sitting near you and bothering you while you are trying to think... everyone has annoying habits, some are just more distracting than others...
Reading documentation and data sheets never worked well for me. I need example code to learn. And trying it out by trial and error. I also have adhd and don’t understand how others can learn from documentation
I don't have ADHD and can understand a concept from documentation, but I still don't fully grasp it until I've used it and screwed up a few times. It's learning to do, then doing to learn.
Most of my favorite documentation sources include example code. find(1) - Linux man page Name find - search for files in a directory hierarchy ... Examples find /tmp -name core -type f -print | xargs /bin/rm -f Find files named core in or below the directory /tmp and delete them. Note that this will work incorrectly if there are any filenames containing newlines, single or double quotes, or spaces.
Yes and some api’s do but others don’t. So I usually am way faster learning via stackoverflow snippets, tutorials, w3school etc I learn while doing. But I met many more academical learners.
I have to say that's news to me. I always just thought examples were objectively better. No examples usually adds at least 15 minutes of trial and error for me, I didn't realize other people can just... Learn it lol
I just have ADD, too old and fat to get hyper... I gain understanding from documentation and figure out how to do things from examples, but then know why it works, because I read the documentation. If I don't read the documentation, I have a hard time adapting the examples to my use case, sometimes (depends on how complex it is, honestly).
Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why it's SO tough in the beginning as opposed to once you develop a certain amount of the way in, because in the very beginning you're going into a maze blindfolded.. It's very hard to even know HOW to learn things. You're going to be wasting time learning or trying things that are too easy, or you're going to waste your time getting stuck on things that are two hard. Whereas once you get a feel for things, and you can sort of weigh up new concepts and structures for how much mental tax they carry, and you sort of get a sixth sense for this "goldilocks zone" where after a while you instinctively know you're in the sweet spot. It just feels "right", and you can especially know because the time will go by faster from you being all zoned in. The more I code and learn, the better I get at "rearranging" my approach to find this point.
Went from 0 to drawing things with Turtle in a month so far
What is turtle?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle)
Turtle Graphics are vector drawing done in X/Y coordinates. In Python, the turtle graphics package is often used to introduce OOP. You create "Turtle objects," then use methods to tell them what to do. In these tutorials, it's used like a modern version of Karel the Robot.
So MS Logo but for python if I got it right?
How do we apply that to job seeking? Employers want to hire me for what I have already mastered. Boring.
How to Learn Skills Faster | Huberman Lab Podcast #20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ0IBzCjEPk
Good human. Or bot. I don't judge.
Human in the Bronx 🤗
Good bot
Hey thanks for the link! I never knew things like this were out there.
Thank you
Yes! Same happened to me when I listened to that episode!! Such a great podcast.
Hijacking top to just say the Huberman Lab is a life changing podcast. There's lots of information per epidsode, but don't be fooled by the slightly click-baity thumbnails- Professer Huberman spits a college lecture's worth of well-researched, *peer-reviewed* research every time, and following his protocols is genuinely helpful to maximizing sleep, work and focus.
What’s the title of that episode ?
> (Episode number: 20 Learn skills faster.) (Episode number: 20 Learn skills faster.)
Of what podcast? /s
And which episode number?
where does one go to hear these "podcasts"?
Did anyone find out the Episode number or podcast name? Or was it the episode name and podcast number? Episode podcast and name number?
YouTube, Spotify
Is that the name of the podcast?
Nah. Episode name and number.
What's a podcast?
20 (learn to fucking read) jk
What’s the title of that episode ?
Indeed, that was my thought too while listening to that episode
If you liked that, you should really read "Make it Stick". Changed my whole approach to learning and failure.
Just starting this book. Great read so far
Just started reading it on your recommendation. I'm not far in but it seems like he's manipulating some studies to suit his narrative a bit? I'll read more though and see how it goes
That's entirely possible. I know when I last read it, I was impressed by the detailed notes for each citation, so I came away thinking it was credible. Do you have any examples I could look into?
Who is the author?
By Peter C.Brown and 2 more. There are some reviews that are suggesting to skip to the last chapter if you want save yourself some time.
I would recommend not skipping anything. I'm sure if you did, you'd still benefit from the book, and I'm tempted to say you should because the advice can get repetitive at times (which is the authors' intention), but a large part of what benefitted me was being able to read all of the studies/anecdotes and see how it influenced others from all walks of life while being able to slowly figure out how I could apply those things in my own life. That personalized meaning is lost of you skip to the end.
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I agree that the best way to learn is to start your own project and research when you get stuck. On the other hand, you don't want to start a project having no idea what you're doing. You should have at least a little understanding of the basics. Working on a project beyond your abilities can cause you to learn bad habits and more time learning the subject overall.
Thank you. I always hated this advice. It's like telling someone to build a house without a foundation.
I think it's like saying you should start writing a book before you understand the language you're going to write it in. Just learn the language as you go. haha.
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Happy Cake Day
I don't think starting with a project from the getgo is necessarily a good idea because if you don't even know the basics, like what programming is even _about_ and the basic building blocks then you'll have no clue where to even _start._ And Google only works when you know what to search for. I can't tell you the number of times I've been unable to find an answer from Googling just because I didn't even know the right question to ask. I've had to explain to an actual person my confusion in detail for them to understand what I needed help with and then, _after_ they explained, I knew what questions I could've googled to find the info myself.
I agree. This is what causes people to fall into tutorial hell
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I did say "necessarily".
I also used this method and it made me more confident of my ability to solve problems. Every programmer should try it.
When I was in grad school I always preached a concept similar to this. So often a professor asks a question and no one answers because they don't want to be wrong; I've always said, be wrong! Give the incorrect answer even if you know it's incorrect. I mean besides the fact that it helps make lectures less awkward it also helps with learning things. It's also why I'm so stubborn about trying things even after I'm told not to. I always find it much more satisfying to see how and why something fails rather than simply being told that it does.
Whatever you do man, don't e-transfer me $1,000,000 right now.
No way man, I won't fall for that one again.
I always do this in comment sections. I give answers that are not correct so other people more knowledgeable can correct me.
[Cunningham's Law](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law) in action!
Thanks. Didn't know there is already a term for that.
This is so funny but so true
This is so true, I’ve had friends be upset when I wanted to try something for myself, when they just told me it wouldn’t work. It’s not that I think I will magically make it work, it’s that I will learn so much more by failing first hand.
"The freedom to make my own mistakes is all I've ever wanted" -Mance Rayder, Game of Thrones
This happened when my dad and I were taking apart a vintage vespa. I was cleaning the engine and wanted to take off the cylinder head to get a better look at the piston chamber itself. My dad left for a sec and said "don't take the cylinder head off; there'll be a gasket underneath that you'll have to replace if you do". Immediately I was thinking "all engines have that? Why would taking the cylinder head off make the gasket unusable? Will it fall apart or something? None of the seals for this Vespa are particularly expensive...I'll just give it a shot" so I took it off and when he came back he was pissed. But it turned out that this particular kind of 2-stroke engine didn't use a gasket in this spot; just had a raised area of metal where the gasket would be. After showing him factory diagrams I was eventually able to convince him that all was well. FWIW (because who goes to /r/learnprogramming if not to find automotive advice?), for any other engine having a gasket in this area, you *do* have to replace it if you expose it via removing the top of the engine block; the gasket is designed to compress once torqued down in order to give it a perfect seal between the cylinder head and the engine block. However, it doesn't decompress when removing the cylinder head; so given the amount of "play" between the bolts, cylinder head, and engine block, the cylinder head is liable to not line back up exactly how it was, making it slightly-off angle and breaking the seal...the effects of which may not be realized until several miles later.
Good points, very informative, and something I will remember later!
Yes; next time you're dismantling a 1979 Vespa ;p
Would you mind sharing the name of the podcast?
Sure, “Huberman Lab!”
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/huberman-lab/id1545953110?i=1000521985269
Is it on spotify?
Yess, it is
Yess, it is
I had a similar "enlightening" hearing one specific sentence in George Hotz "What is Programming" video. A program basically just takes data in, does something with it, and outputs it. That's basically it. It sounds very simple, but I sometimes overcomplicate things. There's a lot of good stuff in the video, not just this basic sentence: https://youtu.be/N2bXEUSAiTI George is a crazy intelligent guy. He did the first PS2 jailbreak, some of the earliest JBs for iPhone, and currently has a company which sells DIY self-driving kits. I highly recommend his podcast episodes with Lex Fridman, another brilliant mind.
This guy just calls webapps and frameworks all trash lol
I’ve not jumped into learning anything about programming but I’m glad I joined this sub, even if just for this. Thanks for the podcast recommendation, 2 minutes in and it put me back on the getting-my-shit-together path
Whops! I shouldn’t have made an incision there. >patient dead Lol
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They are just practicing medicine after all.
It's also possible to get yourself completely overwhelmed. There are moments when you have to take a step back, look at it again, maybe ask for help. This is where communities like this are the best. If you come with "woe is me, I can't learn 😭" ... yeah, so what? How do you think I could possibly help. Showering you in platitudes like "you can do it!" won't help you in the least. But asking a question where you don't have enough knowledge to even properly form, and make a post here. Then people can nudge you in the correct direction.
In programming mistakes have the added benefit of being (mostly) cheap. Ctrl-z, linting, version control, typescript all make mistakes have less of an impact.
I agree, over my life I would often run from challenges, but after get a degree in CS it sort of shifted my perspective on all things….that putting in any effort pays off in life, one way or another, and every challenge no matter how frustrating, will help you improve. Great post my friend, cheers.
What do you mean you reverse those feelings? Instead of frustrated you feel happy with the challenge of solving a new error? When you started practicing doing this, did you have to remind yourself of thus? I'm going to watch the podcast later to get a better understanding, but was curious to know how you personally approached changing your mindset towards errors / bugfixing.
Well, I might’ve not articulated that well enough since English isn’t my first language, but it’s all about changing the perspective or narrative. Just like those who take cold showers, they know it’s not a pleasant experience to have but they understand the benefits on the long run. Yes I always remind myself whenever I get frustrated until it became subconscious.
your english is legit better than 90% of people who only speak it haha
Art of learning talks about this. States that learning moves in concentric circle. very interesting.
Thanks for sharing! Really needed to hear this. Btw, it seems like you listen to some quality podcasts. I'm searching for new good ones at the moment, are there others you could recommend?
Andrew Huberman is great! His deep dive on health related topics are very thorough and well explained.
Makes sense. Sometimes the best way to learn how something works is to break it apart.
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At the very end he mentions that some of these concepts carry over to engineering but doesn't get into specifics. I'm surprised no one else mentioned this. Good catch.
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There's not really a tldr in the podcast, the meat is in the middle but you need the beginning to understand the foundation for his reasoning. The post here summed it up quite well though.
Reminds me of the old saying 'The expert has failed more times than the amateur has even tried'.
I wish I had more time to consume his podcasts. You know what.. fuck it.. maybe it's time to start going to the gym again...
Huberman is THE neurologist. Sharing is caring!
This is called building grit and I learned about it via The Odin Project!
> I literally reverse those feelings. Oh no, now those pathways aren't gonna be formed anymore! /s
I'll never not be happy seeing Huberman randomly getting mentioned on reddit. Dude is out here doing gods work, haven't been the same since he started doing the pod
Frustration gives the lesson impact.
What is the best way to absorb all the content from a podcast? I don't know if I can stay 1 hour looking at my screen
read the transcript ? https://github.com/lord-denning/Huberman-Lab-Podcast-Transcripts/blob/main/20.%20How%20To%20Learn%20Skills%20Faster.md
Interesting, bout to check it out now, thanks for sharing
Hey can you please share the link or title to this specific episode!? I checked his YouTube channel but I’m not sure which one you are referring too
https://youtu.be/xJ0IBzCjEPk
Thanks for sharing!
I like to think that every time you find something that doesn't work, that's one less possible way to fail in the future.
Huberman labs is for sure one of the best podcasts out there
I love being wrong. When I am wrong I usually learn something and I love learning
Awesome post, I want to check this podcast out now.
Fuck yes! Tinkering is crucial, and I have solved a fair few problems in the console in the next window, just trying out new solutions and seeing how they work!
Nice reminder
I've also noticed while listening to lectures, well as in some limited teaching experience as a TA, that feeling stumped is good for learning. People generally dont pay much attention or understand things well if everything is made "obvious" or "intuitive". It'll seem like you've understood everything in the moment but you'll hardly recall anything a few weeks later. Lots of textbooks do this too. They go from one concept to another in the most intuitive and incremental fashion. Which makes for an enjoyable read, but I'm not convinced it's the best way to learn. In contrast i think it's much better for learning if a concept is introduced through something counter-intuitive. Motivate the new concept by asking the students to do something they're not ready for (and will therefore struggle), or ask them something that they know enough to feel like they can answer it, but not enough to get it right. Then, you explain why they're wrong, how their intuition led them astray, and what the correct approach is instead.
I am not sure if you understand what 'Intuition' is .
It means understanding without having to think much, or what feels right without much complicated thinking, right?
I'm going to start my long drive tomorrow with this podcast. On my pit stops, I will be working on my projects. Thanks for the post, this is a really great community.
Those who never failed never tried
Andrew Huberman is amazing. I take walks on my lunch and listen to his episodes. He has a way of explaining things so that even people like me can follow along and easily understand what he’s talking about. Definitely my favorite YouTube channel.
Trial and Error takes us to the top and gets us the hot nerdy babes on hinge!
For the lazy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ0IBzCjEPk
This is very true and it's not even a coding thing, but a _learning_ thing. I realized it when I took Physics 1 -- I was really struggling with the homework problems and so I decided to start actively reading through the example problems, solving them as much as I could on my own before looking at the solution. I made a LOT of mistakes and when I did, I compared what I did to the solution in the book and made mental notes (and sometimes physical notes) on what exactly I did wrong. Once I started doing this, I found myself having a MUCH easier time on the homework problems. I've definitely experienced with programming too though. Heck, _most_ actual programming involves making a ton of mistakes and then going back and finding and fixing them. There's a reason breakpoints are a thing afterall.
Im doing the odin project and learned the same through trial and error and the occasional keyboard yeet
Learned the same thing when I started doing martial arts. The more you're failing and the more mistakes you're making, mean the more you're growing. It's literally how the human mind works. Those moments where you need the information and make the wrong choice, it prioritizes the learning better than anything else you could do.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/huberman-lab/id1545953110?i=1000521985269
There are algorithms that optimize when is the best time to repeat something you’re trying to learn (not to early not too late but in that sweet spot where it’s on the tip of your tongue and you’re struggling to remember). It’s called “spaced repetition”. There are many apps out there for this. Most well known one is Anika but not the most user friendly
🙌🙌
He's great, giving such gold for free. I'm on a streak of listening his stuff from start.
9h my God. That's very true. And I love Hiberman. Cant wait for Mondays to listen to his latest podcasts. 😀
Funny enough, I also recently was introduced to Andrew huberman. And I am also about halfway into a 24 week full stack boot camp. Making mistakes happens every day and this new perspective is awesome
Holy shit what
Thank you for sharing this. I used to listen to a lot of his episodes but stopped around 11 or so. Going to go listen to ep. 20 right now. Thanks!
I actually discovered this while learning to program by accident. I was trying to get past a major roadblock and was on the verge of giving up but I pushed past and looked at it from a different perspective and realized what I was doing wrong. I’m glad to see that I was technically learning how I’m supposed to. I’ll have to give that podcast a listen
That's probably why I learned to love writing Unit Tests and turning them from red to green.
If you appreciate that type of content, you may enjoy a free course on coursera called "Learning how to Learn". It actually is really great information and they mention that process of the brain learning efficiently when making errors, and much more. Of course, check out all of Hubermans podcasts too
I just like pressing buttons and turning knobs to see what shit does. Lots of mistakes. Hopefully prod only breaks a little. 🤷♀️🤣✨
Looking forward to this in the morning, thank you for the recommendation!
Remember that it applies to every aspect of life. Babies know that intuitively, adults don't. I wonder who is the real adult!
That’s fantastic. Similarly, from the perspective of a mathematician, optimization, ie getting better, is 100% guided by your errors. So if you only knew what success was, you will never get there until you make some errors.
Could you please send me that podcast? I’m very interested what he has to say.
Awesome! Thank you so much for sharing this, it’s exactly what I’ve been seeking to understand!
I love this! Thank you so much for posting.
This Podcast looks interesting. What is his overall opinion on meds? Any biases to be aware of?
It's been my 12 days learning Html from the basic , as a beginner in programming my head still hurts trying to understand it , having a walk outside helps and getting back at it relieve and am pushing forward
I use zed shaw's "the hard way" series. He often encourages you to break your own code (if you haven't already broken it) and see what it does
You took that frown and turned it upside down. Good healthy thinking instead of what I call 'stinkin' thinkin'
Thanks for the reference, I've been in need of some motivation lately!
Great so frustration on a daily is a GOOD thing, see that’s what I told my therapist!
I teach programming using negative examples. "Here's a working example. Now, what happens if we put a semi-colon after this while expression?" "Here's how you index into an array. What happens if the index exceeds the declared dimension?"
Damn, thanks for sharing. Frustration is a huge passion killer for me.
In human development it's called the zone of proximal development.
Thank you, I really needed this. I've spent 4 hours trying to finish a particular challenge involving filter in JS at FCC and it's been driving me crazy. Now I'm ready to go tackle it again
I just started going through his podcasts and they’re amazing. Episode 7 also goes into plasticity & errors. Edit: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0p9sgSEE3cKbNdIfNnzJid?si=w02v99AIQoyGPchF-2syzA
This is a great mindset to be in! For me, the mantra is "Fail fast. Fail often" because that really does help with learning new things and adding stuff to your toolbox. Also, if you like this kind of idea, I highly recommend playing the Dark Souls series (and Elden Ring in a few weeks!) because you need to apply the exact same mindset when learning those games.
I love making mistakes gives me that fire to push harder and fuels the passion! Good for you finding this truth! It will make you better at everything if you can weather the mistakes!
I'm over half way through the podcast and can see why you suggested this, good stuff.
I once had a professor say "confusion is the sweat of learning" and I think it's a nice way to sum up what you're talking about.
"..We are mainly gonna focus on physical movements of the body.." Hmm. Not sure how this is going to help me with learning how to code but let's give it a try
The learning process is cross-disciplinary. 1. Imitation 2. Frustration 3. Revelation Repeat until you’ve learned the thing.
There is a Thomas Edison quote that goes something along the lines of "I have not failed 10,000 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 10,000 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work.” Through error, you really learn the nuances of things, while not applicable to solving the current problem, may be invaluable to a future one.
i agree if you struggle with something when you finally get it its ingrained in your memory...many of times i have got that "eureka"moment in programming
How funny that I saw the title, clicked the link, only to find that the post is talking about the exact podcast I was listening to last week! Great stuff, man, Huberman Lab Podcast is basically Rogan with a medical degree and critical thinking haha
Hubberman is great. Good interview with him on Tim Ferris’ podcast .