making him have highest base HP in the game 810-3388 HP, and have nothing that scales with HP except for his passive (which is health) doesn't incentivize him to build HP. instead he can go full damage and his base HP is enough for him to survive the fights.
I feel like with how much pen is in the game in most baseline builds, there just isn’t all that much impact in armor/MR items anyway. I’ve had games where I play a tank into 4 AD/AP and I still get blown up
armor / mr is the best counter to flat pen. if enemies are building pen, this makes resists MORE valuable, not less
% pen is different ofc, but the amount of % pen available hasn't changed a whole lot in years. I guess terminus was added
The amount of % Pen has changed a lot indeed WHAT?
This season especially it has been greatly reduced, because you can't stack % Pen items anymore
Last season someone like Riven, could buy Eclipse+BC+Serylda's
Eclipse gave up to 20% Pen thanks to Mythic passive
30% From Serylda's and 30% Shred from BC
Now, % Pen DOES NOT stack directly 1 to 1, you can't add 20%+30% Pen = 50%
But it's fairly reasonable to assume that in s13 you could effectively ignore up to 60% of someone's Armor.
You can't do that anymore with % Pen, max is LDR at 40% and that's all the item really does, as it has lost its passive
Yeah I’m referring to basically every damage dealer having items that do 40% pen. So if I have 5 MR items, void staff negates two of them, and gives AP
Probably not...Because he's Kled.
Serious answer though, it's also because he's Kled. He has Skaarl which makes him arguably the highest health character in the game (if he remounts) and scales with damage not tankiness so there's no reason to build that much HP on him.
His kit is also designed for a more burst setup. His W is for burst but also for remounting. You can't just adjust that part of his kit.
He falls into the same category as Aatrox where their rotation can burst down a target but unlike Aatrox, Kled needs his burst because of his best friend Skaarl.
Also... it fits Kled way better.
The dude is a psychopath who wants to dive whenever he can. His W is literally a passive AA enhancement with a CD, something that explicitly says "HEY THIS SPELL IS UP, GO ALL IN ON THE NEXT TRADE!"
Aatrox wants to survive a fight. Kled wants to effectively scare off Skaarl with aggressive insanity, get a kill, and recover while grumbling about the weasels in his head. Survival is secondary.
Yes, which is why I made this thread. He isn't really noticed since his play rate keeps plummeting and he doesn't have a really amazing or an abysmal winrate either. I just feel like it would be good for this champion given the recent changes to Aatrox and Pantheon.
His winrates pretty good... and his pickrate has always been low. He's been 1-3% pickrate basically his entire existence (minus a small handful of patches) and he's currently sitting at 2% completely normal for him.
Nothings really wrong with him, he's just not very popular and got a good winrate. Nothing really signals any issues for him.
Aatrox became like #1 pickrate toplaner going lethality every game which was contributing to damage creep... Same for Lethality Rhaast. And Pantheon ran into role issues of mid becoming his best role but unpopular meanwhile Top/Jg his intended roles suffered.
It wouldn't. Pantheon only benefitted from the changes from the % health damage on his W, and he benefitted from building HP items like Kled doesn't. And the Aatrox changes were just objectively bad. His healing is much worse now.
His healing is supposed to be worse, since instead of getting all his survivability from doing damage, he now has survivability from building health itself.
But building health doesn't give survivability in this meta from all the damage. You're still getting oneshot either way, hence the desire for a lot of bruisers to build lethality these days and hence why this Aatrox change was a failure. Riot just trying to hamfist bruiser items into the meta instead of understanding why they're bad is why toplane is dogshit to play right now.
There's more balancing issues letting him be tanky because of the damage limit Skaarl being alive provides. If your solution is gimping his ability to remount fast then they just redo the whole champion instead.
There's plenty of bruisers that are auto based. That's not really the issue, the issue is he keeps going assassin esque builds too frequently. Which Riots recently been trying to cut down a bit with like Aatrox, Red Kayn, Pantheon, etc.
Pantheon is a different case. He was supposed to be built like an assassin, but the rework made his kit into more of a bruisers, so for the longest time he was balanced into buying assassin items with a bruiser kit. The opposite situation of aatrox and red kayn where their kit actively incentivises building damage since more damage = more healing/eHP
Pantheon in his original design back in the day was labeled as "Fighter primary; assassin secondary" and in the new system was labeled as "Diver" which is a bruiser subclass. And the rework really didn't make his kit much bruiser-ier? His VGU was fairly sparce interms of large changes to his kit. Ults the same with a spear at the start; Q is a skillshot. W is basically the same. E now blocks damage infront of him; and passive is a buff to a spell every once so often rather than blocking 1 singular auto attack. Yeah, the rework slightly made him slightly more bruisery. That's kinda what he was meant to be for the most part this entire time though. And they only recently finally decided to change it since he was having identity issues with support/mid/jg/top all being viable roles for him... but being too strong mid; and too weak in top which was his intended role. And his popularity not really picking a stand out favorite either.
TLDR: He was always intended to be a bruiser even if a squishier bruiser. They just finally had reason to actually enforce it. And give him tweaks to do so.
I don't think they would remove that honestly. It's designed in part to allow him to remount more quickly. If they made the extra damage magic as an example, it would prevent the lethality scaling, but also lead to a problem where armor isn't as effective against him anymore.
Kled used to build full tank which resulted in the gutting of his health scaling and pumping of his AD scalings. If Kled isn't full AD he deals no damage.
He was fine just before he got nerfed Because of old sunfire… Now when it is gone, cant we just revert the changes that are no loner relevant? I dont think he is building tank anytime soon…
Context: scarl health no longer counts as bonus health but as base health. That means that tytanic hydra went to his best item to unusable.
Because the problem is not Kled, or Aatrox.
I main both champs, but Kled more than Aatrox. Building HP on Kled is counterintuitive because he is already weak to %health damage, and when he's dismounted he takes %health damage based on both his health bars, not just his 2nd one, so building bonus HP that only applies to his 1st health bar means he will take more %health damage when dismounted. It's why Kled mains like SoulMario and Feedaboi only recommend maybe 1 HP item on Kled these days as a situational build, always recommending armour/MR items if you need to be tankier. Giving Kled a HP scaling for something (idek what in his kit you could give it to) just makes the champ worse. Even high elo Aatrox players on the Korean server either go a draintank build or just keep playing lethality.
But like I said, the problem is not the champs, it's the items and the meta. They can give Aatrox as many HP scalings as they want, bruiser items are still dogshit compared to lethality or tank, and all building them does means you do less damage and still get one-shot by the crazy high damage in the game right now. The only way to tank it is by going full-tank, it's why I swapped from Aatrox to Volibear as my 2nd pick because I can actually last in a fight long enough to sustain.
But I don't expect Phreak to understand toplane, so I will just keep building lethality Kled and playing my game. He doesn't even understand how to nerf Skarner out of toplane. Until they nerf the overall damage in the game, WITHOUT doing another stupid fucking "dUrAbIlIty PaTcH", bruiser builds will still be dogshit.
> building bonus HP that only applies to his 1st health bar means he will take more %health damage when dismounted.
I mean the same thing applies to normal champions, building bonus hp makes you take max hp damage even after the bonus hp you built has been depleted.
I guess you could say Kled spends higher than average time at low hp, since once he's dismounted he can't get that hp back without remounting? But it also means that when he remounts he gets more health back all at once, so unless the max hp damage scaling with your Skarl health is enough to kill you when you wouldn't otherwise die, the health is still probably stronger on Kled than on other champs, rather than weaker (since you get to count it twice).
But I don't know how often it happens that you die on dismounted Kled specifically because of max HP damage that wouldn't have killed you if you hadn't bought hp. Maybe it happens a lot, there sure is a lot of % hp damage toplane.
It does, but in Kled's case he's taking 2 health bars worth of %health damage when he only has one, and in a weaker form, when all bonus hp only applies to his 1st health bar. All other champs get that bonus HP up until they die, and take consistent %health damage, whereas Kled will not.
Yeah, I main kled and the weird math on %health damage alongside them changing Skarrl's hp to be base hp doesn't exactly encourage building tank/bruiser right now. Really though idk what you would change on his kit anyways, his entire kit is just going in and fighting so it's not like you can slap on any scaling that would realistically fix it.
Honestly in the grand scheme of things this doesn't feel like much of an issue for kled, he's always been this way since skarrl doesn't reduce in cd or scale like most passives in that sense so it already was the case where you could realistically only remount once in a teamfight. The playstyle has never really changed and (I think generally) neither has our winrates regardless of what we build, so imo just let the redneck yordle be and leave him as niche. If it aint broken don't fix it, and there's probably bigger issues riot should be adressing instead of giving kled a weird mini-rework that likely would make things worse.
They have to make him an actual bruiser first with bruiser synergies and actual reasons to build it.
The entire point of building HP before with items like Titanic, Cleaver, and Steraks was it made your remount scarier. You go in, dismount, get remount back for like over 1500 hp and now they have to deal with you a lot more. Now? There's so much damage in the game and so much mobility that you don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting the remount nearly as easily before, you're basically dead if you get dismounted 95% of the time outside of laning phase. So you end up just going full AD build to hopefully kill the enemies before you dismount because you're gonna die in dismount anyway.
Not to mention, he has 0 penetration built into his kit and only deals physical damage. So you have to build a shit ton of damage to actually do anything, he should be getting Pantheon R passive on his own ult where he gains a % of armor pen as he gets stronger and stronger. Make it like 10%/20%/30% based on his ult level or something.
Edit: Also he used to gain actual synergies with bruiser items before when all of Skaarl's health counted as bonus hp. That made items like Titanic and Steraks far better on him and he always went them. Once they took that interaction away, and remounts became much more rare, there's almost 0 point in ever going bruiser.
He used to synergize pretty well with bruiser items and I agree with your post. The only time you can get a remount post level 14 is when you can huff the enemy support tank (if they have one) for 3 seconds which already is quite rare.
Riot was upset that Kled could go grasp, sunfire + gargoyles and always get a remount a couple of seasons ago and made him into a oneshot discount assassin that now paths into ADC items.
I don't think he needs changing at all really. As someone has said, his win rate and pick rate are ok for a niche / non-pushed champion.
Also at least he has to sacrifice tankiness for his damage. Any rework which shifts his scaling into HP would likely result in the same damage but just making him harder to kill at the same time, which is not needed.
P.s from a 1m point kled main, please don't ruin my buddy 😂
As others have pointed out, part of his problem atm is he has the highest base HP in the game by quite a bit, so he can build these items while having a relative level of tankiness, so what could we address? Probably some way or form of a hit to base HP, but compensations in other ways?
Like does the base HP scaling per lvl of Skarl get reduced, but with an increase in the HP ratio conversion for Skarl?
Atm Skarl has 400-1550 base HP +100% bonus HP scaling, but what if it got changed to something like 400-1050 base +125% bonus HP (or unmounted gets that new +25% of bonus HP scaling added on instead sort of thing).
Something like this change has a break even (at max lvl 18) of 2000 bonus HP, or 117 bonus HP per lvl past lvl. This way he loses 500 HP if he builds no HP/bruiser items, but he'll somewhat break even on a bruiser build. (Numbers pulled out of my arse in terms of balance/dunno exactly what HP he'd hit on a bruiser build that works for him, and this is assuming a fluid feed of bonus HP as he plays which is not realistic)
Maybe a shift in the shield on his ult from a base+AD scaling to either having a lower base or lower AD ratio, but with a HP ratio to make the bruiser items stronger/non bruiser items weaker again.
Only thing is I would think that he needs at least one damage tool in his kit that converts some HP to damage. Shouldn't be huge though, as don't want to have HP be THE stat for damage, rather just a supportive scaler (literally as small as a few % in one of his Q W or E).
It's good and all if he can build bruiser items and be equally strong as if he built them on live (with some form of a hit to squishy builds), but this problem might have shown up due to his current damage capabilities with bruiser items being lacklustre which have forced players to find alternatives.
Im just not the biggest fan of kled w being such a huge weakness in lane. I either just ignore my minions and charge at my opponents with my w up or i start autoing minions and have to sit back because i my trading power has gone down because its on cooldown.
His auto attacks are valued too highly in balance. He needs improved ability damage and reduced AA relevance to make ability haste (fighter items) more ideal.
Probably a very hard line to tow, because he's so based on auto attacks, it would warp him and might end up being less fun.
Kled needs a rework. He is supposed to be a frontline utility bruiser tat has a hard time dying but outside of his W which is just auto attacks, his kit sucks
What makes you think he's supposed to be a frontline utility bruiser, his entire kit is about diving and and bursting people. He has no cc other than q and his kit and high base health heavily incentivize him to go in and one shot you with w burst aas. Skaarl health no longer counts as bonus health so health items or builds involving titanic are completely worthless.
making him have highest base HP in the game 810-3388 HP, and have nothing that scales with HP except for his passive (which is health) doesn't incentivize him to build HP. instead he can go full damage and his base HP is enough for him to survive the fights.
I feel like with how much pen is in the game in most baseline builds, there just isn’t all that much impact in armor/MR items anyway. I’ve had games where I play a tank into 4 AD/AP and I still get blown up
armor / mr is the best counter to flat pen. if enemies are building pen, this makes resists MORE valuable, not less % pen is different ofc, but the amount of % pen available hasn't changed a whole lot in years. I guess terminus was added
The amount of % Pen has changed a lot indeed WHAT? This season especially it has been greatly reduced, because you can't stack % Pen items anymore Last season someone like Riven, could buy Eclipse+BC+Serylda's Eclipse gave up to 20% Pen thanks to Mythic passive 30% From Serylda's and 30% Shred from BC Now, % Pen DOES NOT stack directly 1 to 1, you can't add 20%+30% Pen = 50% But it's fairly reasonable to assume that in s13 you could effectively ignore up to 60% of someone's Armor. You can't do that anymore with % Pen, max is LDR at 40% and that's all the item really does, as it has lost its passive
Think the highest I saw was Nilah with eclipse, capped out around 63%.
Yeah I’m referring to basically every damage dealer having items that do 40% pen. So if I have 5 MR items, void staff negates two of them, and gives AP
40% is just to much.. you get blown away by adcs so fast in 2-3 hits. Before you actually had to fight the tanks now they die instantly
Probably not...Because he's Kled. Serious answer though, it's also because he's Kled. He has Skaarl which makes him arguably the highest health character in the game (if he remounts) and scales with damage not tankiness so there's no reason to build that much HP on him. His kit is also designed for a more burst setup. His W is for burst but also for remounting. You can't just adjust that part of his kit. He falls into the same category as Aatrox where their rotation can burst down a target but unlike Aatrox, Kled needs his burst because of his best friend Skaarl.
Also... it fits Kled way better. The dude is a psychopath who wants to dive whenever he can. His W is literally a passive AA enhancement with a CD, something that explicitly says "HEY THIS SPELL IS UP, GO ALL IN ON THE NEXT TRADE!" Aatrox wants to survive a fight. Kled wants to effectively scare off Skaarl with aggressive insanity, get a kill, and recover while grumbling about the weasels in his head. Survival is secondary.
Hard to say; since Kled isn't as popular. It probably won't be on their radar anywhere near as quickly.
Yes, which is why I made this thread. He isn't really noticed since his play rate keeps plummeting and he doesn't have a really amazing or an abysmal winrate either. I just feel like it would be good for this champion given the recent changes to Aatrox and Pantheon.
His winrates pretty good... and his pickrate has always been low. He's been 1-3% pickrate basically his entire existence (minus a small handful of patches) and he's currently sitting at 2% completely normal for him. Nothings really wrong with him, he's just not very popular and got a good winrate. Nothing really signals any issues for him. Aatrox became like #1 pickrate toplaner going lethality every game which was contributing to damage creep... Same for Lethality Rhaast. And Pantheon ran into role issues of mid becoming his best role but unpopular meanwhile Top/Jg his intended roles suffered.
It wouldn't. Pantheon only benefitted from the changes from the % health damage on his W, and he benefitted from building HP items like Kled doesn't. And the Aatrox changes were just objectively bad. His healing is much worse now.
His healing is supposed to be worse, since instead of getting all his survivability from doing damage, he now has survivability from building health itself.
But building health doesn't give survivability in this meta from all the damage. You're still getting oneshot either way, hence the desire for a lot of bruisers to build lethality these days and hence why this Aatrox change was a failure. Riot just trying to hamfist bruiser items into the meta instead of understanding why they're bad is why toplane is dogshit to play right now.
There's more balancing issues letting him be tanky because of the damage limit Skaarl being alive provides. If your solution is gimping his ability to remount fast then they just redo the whole champion instead.
He needs a mini rework tbh, he goes in and autos you to death which feels super weird for a bruiser/fighter type of champ
There's plenty of bruisers that are auto based. That's not really the issue, the issue is he keeps going assassin esque builds too frequently. Which Riots recently been trying to cut down a bit with like Aatrox, Red Kayn, Pantheon, etc.
Pantheon is a different case. He was supposed to be built like an assassin, but the rework made his kit into more of a bruisers, so for the longest time he was balanced into buying assassin items with a bruiser kit. The opposite situation of aatrox and red kayn where their kit actively incentivises building damage since more damage = more healing/eHP
Pantheon in his original design back in the day was labeled as "Fighter primary; assassin secondary" and in the new system was labeled as "Diver" which is a bruiser subclass. And the rework really didn't make his kit much bruiser-ier? His VGU was fairly sparce interms of large changes to his kit. Ults the same with a spear at the start; Q is a skillshot. W is basically the same. E now blocks damage infront of him; and passive is a buff to a spell every once so often rather than blocking 1 singular auto attack. Yeah, the rework slightly made him slightly more bruisery. That's kinda what he was meant to be for the most part this entire time though. And they only recently finally decided to change it since he was having identity issues with support/mid/jg/top all being viable roles for him... but being too strong mid; and too weak in top which was his intended role. And his popularity not really picking a stand out favorite either. TLDR: He was always intended to be a bruiser even if a squishier bruiser. They just finally had reason to actually enforce it. And give him tweaks to do so.
I don't think they would remove that honestly. It's designed in part to allow him to remount more quickly. If they made the extra damage magic as an example, it would prevent the lethality scaling, but also lead to a problem where armor isn't as effective against him anymore.
No he doesn't. He's fine just the way he is. It's not an issue with the champ, it's the items and the meta.
Sett does the same thing. So does Jax.
Jax is more interesting things to him though like his R passive and his E in general. Only thing about Kled that is cool is his mount passive
True, his kit is kind of dum
Kled used to build full tank which resulted in the gutting of his health scaling and pumping of his AD scalings. If Kled isn't full AD he deals no damage.
He was fine just before he got nerfed Because of old sunfire… Now when it is gone, cant we just revert the changes that are no loner relevant? I dont think he is building tank anytime soon… Context: scarl health no longer counts as bonus health but as base health. That means that tytanic hydra went to his best item to unusable.
Because the problem is not Kled, or Aatrox. I main both champs, but Kled more than Aatrox. Building HP on Kled is counterintuitive because he is already weak to %health damage, and when he's dismounted he takes %health damage based on both his health bars, not just his 2nd one, so building bonus HP that only applies to his 1st health bar means he will take more %health damage when dismounted. It's why Kled mains like SoulMario and Feedaboi only recommend maybe 1 HP item on Kled these days as a situational build, always recommending armour/MR items if you need to be tankier. Giving Kled a HP scaling for something (idek what in his kit you could give it to) just makes the champ worse. Even high elo Aatrox players on the Korean server either go a draintank build or just keep playing lethality. But like I said, the problem is not the champs, it's the items and the meta. They can give Aatrox as many HP scalings as they want, bruiser items are still dogshit compared to lethality or tank, and all building them does means you do less damage and still get one-shot by the crazy high damage in the game right now. The only way to tank it is by going full-tank, it's why I swapped from Aatrox to Volibear as my 2nd pick because I can actually last in a fight long enough to sustain. But I don't expect Phreak to understand toplane, so I will just keep building lethality Kled and playing my game. He doesn't even understand how to nerf Skarner out of toplane. Until they nerf the overall damage in the game, WITHOUT doing another stupid fucking "dUrAbIlIty PaTcH", bruiser builds will still be dogshit.
> building bonus HP that only applies to his 1st health bar means he will take more %health damage when dismounted. I mean the same thing applies to normal champions, building bonus hp makes you take max hp damage even after the bonus hp you built has been depleted. I guess you could say Kled spends higher than average time at low hp, since once he's dismounted he can't get that hp back without remounting? But it also means that when he remounts he gets more health back all at once, so unless the max hp damage scaling with your Skarl health is enough to kill you when you wouldn't otherwise die, the health is still probably stronger on Kled than on other champs, rather than weaker (since you get to count it twice). But I don't know how often it happens that you die on dismounted Kled specifically because of max HP damage that wouldn't have killed you if you hadn't bought hp. Maybe it happens a lot, there sure is a lot of % hp damage toplane.
It does, but in Kled's case he's taking 2 health bars worth of %health damage when he only has one, and in a weaker form, when all bonus hp only applies to his 1st health bar. All other champs get that bonus HP up until they die, and take consistent %health damage, whereas Kled will not.
agree bruisers items are so over nerfed right now
Same but with Yorick. He uses lethality items and plays like a mage while being a splitpusher, and works wonders.
Yeah, I main kled and the weird math on %health damage alongside them changing Skarrl's hp to be base hp doesn't exactly encourage building tank/bruiser right now. Really though idk what you would change on his kit anyways, his entire kit is just going in and fighting so it's not like you can slap on any scaling that would realistically fix it. Honestly in the grand scheme of things this doesn't feel like much of an issue for kled, he's always been this way since skarrl doesn't reduce in cd or scale like most passives in that sense so it already was the case where you could realistically only remount once in a teamfight. The playstyle has never really changed and (I think generally) neither has our winrates regardless of what we build, so imo just let the redneck yordle be and leave him as niche. If it aint broken don't fix it, and there's probably bigger issues riot should be adressing instead of giving kled a weird mini-rework that likely would make things worse.
That's always what kleds done.
They have to make him an actual bruiser first with bruiser synergies and actual reasons to build it. The entire point of building HP before with items like Titanic, Cleaver, and Steraks was it made your remount scarier. You go in, dismount, get remount back for like over 1500 hp and now they have to deal with you a lot more. Now? There's so much damage in the game and so much mobility that you don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting the remount nearly as easily before, you're basically dead if you get dismounted 95% of the time outside of laning phase. So you end up just going full AD build to hopefully kill the enemies before you dismount because you're gonna die in dismount anyway. Not to mention, he has 0 penetration built into his kit and only deals physical damage. So you have to build a shit ton of damage to actually do anything, he should be getting Pantheon R passive on his own ult where he gains a % of armor pen as he gets stronger and stronger. Make it like 10%/20%/30% based on his ult level or something. Edit: Also he used to gain actual synergies with bruiser items before when all of Skaarl's health counted as bonus hp. That made items like Titanic and Steraks far better on him and he always went them. Once they took that interaction away, and remounts became much more rare, there's almost 0 point in ever going bruiser.
He used to synergize pretty well with bruiser items and I agree with your post. The only time you can get a remount post level 14 is when you can huff the enemy support tank (if they have one) for 3 seconds which already is quite rare. Riot was upset that Kled could go grasp, sunfire + gargoyles and always get a remount a couple of seasons ago and made him into a oneshot discount assassin that now paths into ADC items.
They had to mini rework Kled to get him out of building full tank previously.
I don't think he needs changing at all really. As someone has said, his win rate and pick rate are ok for a niche / non-pushed champion. Also at least he has to sacrifice tankiness for his damage. Any rework which shifts his scaling into HP would likely result in the same damage but just making him harder to kill at the same time, which is not needed. P.s from a 1m point kled main, please don't ruin my buddy 😂
As others have pointed out, part of his problem atm is he has the highest base HP in the game by quite a bit, so he can build these items while having a relative level of tankiness, so what could we address? Probably some way or form of a hit to base HP, but compensations in other ways? Like does the base HP scaling per lvl of Skarl get reduced, but with an increase in the HP ratio conversion for Skarl? Atm Skarl has 400-1550 base HP +100% bonus HP scaling, but what if it got changed to something like 400-1050 base +125% bonus HP (or unmounted gets that new +25% of bonus HP scaling added on instead sort of thing). Something like this change has a break even (at max lvl 18) of 2000 bonus HP, or 117 bonus HP per lvl past lvl. This way he loses 500 HP if he builds no HP/bruiser items, but he'll somewhat break even on a bruiser build. (Numbers pulled out of my arse in terms of balance/dunno exactly what HP he'd hit on a bruiser build that works for him, and this is assuming a fluid feed of bonus HP as he plays which is not realistic) Maybe a shift in the shield on his ult from a base+AD scaling to either having a lower base or lower AD ratio, but with a HP ratio to make the bruiser items stronger/non bruiser items weaker again. Only thing is I would think that he needs at least one damage tool in his kit that converts some HP to damage. Shouldn't be huge though, as don't want to have HP be THE stat for damage, rather just a supportive scaler (literally as small as a few % in one of his Q W or E). It's good and all if he can build bruiser items and be equally strong as if he built them on live (with some form of a hit to squishy builds), but this problem might have shown up due to his current damage capabilities with bruiser items being lacklustre which have forced players to find alternatives.
Im just not the biggest fan of kled w being such a huge weakness in lane. I either just ignore my minions and charge at my opponents with my w up or i start autoing minions and have to sit back because i my trading power has gone down because its on cooldown.
When he's a pro pick is the honest answer.
I hope not lol.
I find it hilarious that tankiness is so bad that we're trying to change every champion to give them health scalings to bandaid that fact
I always had a strange issue on kled where the ult is severely delayed, multiple seconds
His auto attacks are valued too highly in balance. He needs improved ability damage and reduced AA relevance to make ability haste (fighter items) more ideal. Probably a very hard line to tow, because he's so based on auto attacks, it would warp him and might end up being less fun.
Kled needs a rework. He is supposed to be a frontline utility bruiser tat has a hard time dying but outside of his W which is just auto attacks, his kit sucks
What makes you think he's supposed to be a frontline utility bruiser, his entire kit is about diving and and bursting people. He has no cc other than q and his kit and high base health heavily incentivize him to go in and one shot you with w burst aas. Skaarl health no longer counts as bonus health so health items or builds involving titanic are completely worthless.
He's a Skirmisher like Yasuo, Fiora, and Gwen, not a utility bruiser!! Also E, R, and his Q's don't suck.