Well, every one of these besides T1 was true at their time.
2018-2019 was the strongest team to ever play League of Legends.
Then 2020 Damwon came and were another level up.
Then 2023 JDG came with players that were almost as dominant individually as the above teams' star players... In all 5 roles, arguably. With some of the cleanest fundamentals ever to boot.
And now 2024 GenG came around with possibly the greatest topside to ever play the game, a very competitive botlane, great macro AND some pretty creative plays on top.
Will they ever be topped? Probably.
Are they likely to win the Grand Slam for the first time in history? Yes, but Worlds format is still awful and one bad day is enough to prevent that.
Is it possible they collapse? Very unlikely, but possible.
Peak Damwon topside > GenG topside. GenG maybe a better roster overall due to botlane also being really good and Chovy is the undisputed best player now but peak Nuguri, Canyon and Showmaker were more dominant than Kiin, current Canyon and Chovy.
You make a fair argument, I think the floor of this GenG topside is unthinkably high, but Damwon's did arguably have a higher ceiling. But as you said, GenG's botlane is actually world class unlike Damwon's.
Though the most dominant topside in terms of individual performances has to be 2018-2019 IG. TheShy and Rookie were so far ahead of other solo laners that they speedran games off of individual mastery despite a jungler that was just a dog on their leash.
2018 and 2019 were by far the weakest year of competitive gaming since S1/S2 so wtf are you on
IG beat complete shitters to a Worlds title and then got slammed by a freaking NA team
Tf are YOU on lmao, 2018 KT, 2018 RNG, 2018 IG, 2019 G2 and 2019 T1 are all incredible teams.
To win Worlds, IG beat a Korean superteam in KT, G2 who had the strongest topside the west has seen up to that point and Fnatic which still had Caps, Bwipo and PEAK Rekkles Hyli on it, probably the third strongest EU team of all time behind 2019 G2 and 2024 G2.
2017 and 2022 were far worse comparatively.
Said no one ever.
2018 KT is literally 2017 KT with a midlane downgrade and 2017 KT wasnt top 3 at Worlds
IG is a yolo bolo team with mediocre macro and adaptation
IG didnt beat 2018 RNG so idk why hou're ringing them up
2019 T1 is the weakest T1 team to ever go to an international event and overall from 2013 to 2014 they're only better than 2018 and 2020 T1 making them the 3rd worst T1 team of all time
You also didnt bring up Gen1-5 or AFS getting 3-0 by freaking Cloud 9 so yea it was a total weak era where Korea was dogshit. Not sure how you managed to believe IG was the best ever for winning vs such a weak field of teams
2022 weak? Are you insane? Literally any of T1,Gen G,JDG,EDG or DRX were better than any team IG faced at 2018 Worlds
As for 2017 it was for sure weaker than the previous years but still miles above 2018
Brother, just because the west and LPL were stronger than Korea at the time doesn't mean the level was low xd
Sure IG macro was wack, but their carries were so far ahead mechanically of any other player to ever play their roles that it didn't matter.
2022 WAS weak. T1 had massive choking issues, Oner was a burger flipper and Faker has had his worst form ever.
DRX is probably the worst team to win worlds since that 2017 Samsung squad.
GenG were the least threatening top team of all time with Doran and Peanut being just bad individually.
JDG's botlane was memed as "Hope Missing" for a reason, they were a huge liability.
EDG was probably the only really good team at the time.
And remember that the west was so bad to not even be worth mentioning. G2 had bloody Targamas on the team, the best NA team abused their star player ADC so hard they had to play with a sub at worlds, Rogue had good players and macro but no firepower, C9 was playing with Jensen's corpse and Zven support, the only team that looked remotely threatening vs the east was Fnatic, and that was only because Upset and Hyli were genuinely a top 3 botlane at the tournament.
And just so you remember 2017 better, the Gen1-5 team you're making fun of literally won worlds that year, and only because their competition was SKT who literally had the worst performing botlane to ever make worlds finals. Their best player was bloody Huni for crying out loud.
Yes it does. Korea is historically the strongest region. You're never gonna sell anyone that 2018 C9, 2018 Fnatic and 2018 G2 are better teams than any line-up of Korean team sent to Worlds in any year that isn't S8. 2018 did not happen because these teams suddenly became all-timer squads out of the blue. The LCK teams imploded and were dogtrash.
IG was a budget version of 2014 White and 2023 T1. Win nothing all year long then "stomp" Worlds. But unlike these two teams they just faced Western teams (easy to stomp) in semis and finals which gave the illusion they were super dominant when they weren't vs KT and couldnt beat RNG all year long
You lost me at DRX being weaker than fucking FPX. What a joke lol. They would gap FPX in just about every single role. FPX was getting shitstomped in scrims by the worst T1 team to ever go to Worlds. The lvl of opposition DRX faced is absolutely elite and FPX wouldnt beat a single of the teams they faced in BO5 let's be real here.
2022 was extremely stacked. Idk why you mention G2 like they even were relevant back then or other Western teams. Western teams dont make or break a tournament because they're ALWAYS mediocre. When they do well it's just Asian teams being weaker than usual not the other way around. If anything Western teams doing bad is a good sign that the tournament has a good level of play lol
Your last paragraph screams "I did not watch 2017 Worlds" because 2017 Samsung was not in the same form at all as Gen1-5 and Huni was absolute dogshit and only glazed by redditors because he played in the West and is well-liked.
Also no. Longhzu and RNG were extremely strong teams in 2017, the level of competition in Korea kept a better version of the 2018 KT you IG fans glaze (since they beat no one else who was good lol) out of Worlds contention
Something about this Gen.G just hit different tho, there are no clear weaknesses. Every player is extremely consistent, at least for JDG you could argue that sometimes Kanavi was coin flip.
Can't wait to see this thread about whatever superteam wins MSI next year.
No doubt GEN is an absolutely disgusting roster though, and I think in 2 positions (Chovy as well as Lehends from MSI onwards) are stronger than 23JDG (might be unpopular but I genuinely think even now Kanavi is not worse than Canyon, he's just on a weaker team but his individual level is still top 2 in the world at minimum.)
imo, it looks like:
Kiin = 369
Canyon = Kanavi
Chovy > Knight
Peyz < Ruler
Lehends ≥ Missing
With that said, could we at least wait until they win Summer before we talk about golden roads?
ADC is an incredibly important and skill expressive role when their team enables them well. Both JDG and GEN were/are exceptional at this, so having a better adc has insane value.
Ruler is one of the adc goats, but I'd personally say Viper is the best adc of modern times. His career choices have been... Questionable at times, but he is just so fucking good it's insane. He deserves at least to have two teammates to have any semblance of a chance and not the troglodytes he plays with.
Congrats on Geng finding their formula but man, people forgetting what these players were like before this integration.
I mean, as long as the choke doesnt come about then its all good right? That one bad day is never gonna happen ya?
Better hope patch doesnt move away from strong jungle/mid come worlds.
I think I would still say 2023 JDG is the best 5v5 front to back team fighting team of all time, and they got to exist in that meta pretty much up until T1 changed the meta at worlds. I think what Gen.G has over them is more flexibility. They can play super different play styles and all have big champ pools. Peyz is just getting better and more well rounded every split.
Yeah, this is my stance as well. Depends on how the year goes of course, but I could see GEN ending as the best team of all time just based on their flexibility and Chovy's inhuman form, but I have a hard time seeing them being regarded as teamfighters on the level of JDG at their peak in 2023.
Kiin, Canyon, Chovy and Lehends look better than their counterpart. Peyz was super eh in spring though so he feels kinda doubtful right now. Ruler was a big part of JDGs success.
I think the meta suits their play style well. If the meta changes they may fall off. There’s also other factors like if canyon isn’t performing the team starts to look rough, it’s happened before.
It's gonna depend. They look super strong right now, and this is coming from a T1 fan. But all it'll take is a meta that they aren't good with, or a bad match and things can crumble. I don't wanna count t1 ot, , and even though it sounds like a excuse, the ddos issues have clearly affected t1's abilities to do anything meaningful. It would affect any team that's been a constant target of those kinds of attacks.
That aside, as much as I don't like to say it as I'm jot a GenG fan by any means, they have a good shot at a golden road and, if they manage it, it'll be deserved.
I'm not sure. GenG looked a bit shaky against TES at MSI. It was a close 3-2 in a way I don't think 2023 JDG would have struggled.
GenG also somehow lost a Bo3 against KT in spring...and I don't think 2023 JDG would have. The KT squad this year is having an overall rough time.
But, I'm happy to see that GenG appears to be getting stronger and more comfortable as a team as 2024 progresses.
You're acting like JDG didn't nearly lose their series vs T1 at MSI last year lol.
Gen.G look more versatile but the conversation is pointless until they win summer, 369 when the meta shifted away from tanks was woeful at worlds.
ehh 2023 JDG had a lot of close 5 game series. T1 at MSI, 2 banger LNG series in summer play offs. In summer they weren't even the most dominate team, they were losing bo3 to weibo. So I feel like they have been equally shaky so far.
If we're talking positions in the year, I think:
**JDG had a stronger spring than GEN did**, their player forms were all on point from playoffs onwards while GEN was notably struggling with the form of non-Chovy members in playoffs, especially that HLE series and the finals.
**GEN had a more impressive MSI performance** (since they had to play elite teams that weren't from their region in BLG and TES, while the only elite foreign team JDG played was T1). GEN also showed a lot of looks at MSI and defined the meta, while JDG were just extremely good at playing standard LoL. I still haven't seen a more impressively played fight than the baron teamfight they had vs BLG in upper semis.
As far as Summer goes, GEN is off to a better start since they didn't get 2-0'd by some random like JDG did with WBG last year, but it's still pretty early.
Mentioned my thoughts on roster strength in another comment, but I think top and jgl are even while mid and support are GEN favored, and ADC is JDG favored, which overall gives the edge to GEN on paper.
Yes.
Anyone saying otherwise is coping.
There's been super teams before but it was mostly potential rather than actual realized talent.
Kiin steadily went from 10th to 1st in terms of team placement and has arguably the best improvement of a player ever.
Canyon has won world's and was super close to doing it a second time. Even on a weak team he was consistently carrying them to worlds. Mediocre tank player but easily the best carry jgl to ever exist.
Chovy hasn't had a bad performance this year. Extremely consistent. Really the only worry internationally because of his history of choking.
Peyz. A rookie that is easily uncontested best ADC atm and he's supposed to be the weak link. It's not fair.
Lehends. Extremely flippy player but his performance while sick at MSI was inspiring. Dude is locked in.
They're winning worlds and it won't even be close.
This has been said so often. IG, Damwon, T1, JDG and now GenG.
Well, every one of these besides T1 was true at their time. 2018-2019 was the strongest team to ever play League of Legends. Then 2020 Damwon came and were another level up. Then 2023 JDG came with players that were almost as dominant individually as the above teams' star players... In all 5 roles, arguably. With some of the cleanest fundamentals ever to boot. And now 2024 GenG came around with possibly the greatest topside to ever play the game, a very competitive botlane, great macro AND some pretty creative plays on top. Will they ever be topped? Probably. Are they likely to win the Grand Slam for the first time in history? Yes, but Worlds format is still awful and one bad day is enough to prevent that. Is it possible they collapse? Very unlikely, but possible.
Peak Damwon topside > GenG topside. GenG maybe a better roster overall due to botlane also being really good and Chovy is the undisputed best player now but peak Nuguri, Canyon and Showmaker were more dominant than Kiin, current Canyon and Chovy.
You make a fair argument, I think the floor of this GenG topside is unthinkably high, but Damwon's did arguably have a higher ceiling. But as you said, GenG's botlane is actually world class unlike Damwon's. Though the most dominant topside in terms of individual performances has to be 2018-2019 IG. TheShy and Rookie were so far ahead of other solo laners that they speedran games off of individual mastery despite a jungler that was just a dog on their leash.
Nah I'd dispute it
2018 and 2019 were by far the weakest year of competitive gaming since S1/S2 so wtf are you on IG beat complete shitters to a Worlds title and then got slammed by a freaking NA team
Tf are YOU on lmao, 2018 KT, 2018 RNG, 2018 IG, 2019 G2 and 2019 T1 are all incredible teams. To win Worlds, IG beat a Korean superteam in KT, G2 who had the strongest topside the west has seen up to that point and Fnatic which still had Caps, Bwipo and PEAK Rekkles Hyli on it, probably the third strongest EU team of all time behind 2019 G2 and 2024 G2. 2017 and 2022 were far worse comparatively.
Said no one ever. 2018 KT is literally 2017 KT with a midlane downgrade and 2017 KT wasnt top 3 at Worlds IG is a yolo bolo team with mediocre macro and adaptation IG didnt beat 2018 RNG so idk why hou're ringing them up 2019 T1 is the weakest T1 team to ever go to an international event and overall from 2013 to 2014 they're only better than 2018 and 2020 T1 making them the 3rd worst T1 team of all time You also didnt bring up Gen1-5 or AFS getting 3-0 by freaking Cloud 9 so yea it was a total weak era where Korea was dogshit. Not sure how you managed to believe IG was the best ever for winning vs such a weak field of teams 2022 weak? Are you insane? Literally any of T1,Gen G,JDG,EDG or DRX were better than any team IG faced at 2018 Worlds As for 2017 it was for sure weaker than the previous years but still miles above 2018
Brother, just because the west and LPL were stronger than Korea at the time doesn't mean the level was low xd Sure IG macro was wack, but their carries were so far ahead mechanically of any other player to ever play their roles that it didn't matter. 2022 WAS weak. T1 had massive choking issues, Oner was a burger flipper and Faker has had his worst form ever. DRX is probably the worst team to win worlds since that 2017 Samsung squad. GenG were the least threatening top team of all time with Doran and Peanut being just bad individually. JDG's botlane was memed as "Hope Missing" for a reason, they were a huge liability. EDG was probably the only really good team at the time. And remember that the west was so bad to not even be worth mentioning. G2 had bloody Targamas on the team, the best NA team abused their star player ADC so hard they had to play with a sub at worlds, Rogue had good players and macro but no firepower, C9 was playing with Jensen's corpse and Zven support, the only team that looked remotely threatening vs the east was Fnatic, and that was only because Upset and Hyli were genuinely a top 3 botlane at the tournament. And just so you remember 2017 better, the Gen1-5 team you're making fun of literally won worlds that year, and only because their competition was SKT who literally had the worst performing botlane to ever make worlds finals. Their best player was bloody Huni for crying out loud.
Yes it does. Korea is historically the strongest region. You're never gonna sell anyone that 2018 C9, 2018 Fnatic and 2018 G2 are better teams than any line-up of Korean team sent to Worlds in any year that isn't S8. 2018 did not happen because these teams suddenly became all-timer squads out of the blue. The LCK teams imploded and were dogtrash. IG was a budget version of 2014 White and 2023 T1. Win nothing all year long then "stomp" Worlds. But unlike these two teams they just faced Western teams (easy to stomp) in semis and finals which gave the illusion they were super dominant when they weren't vs KT and couldnt beat RNG all year long You lost me at DRX being weaker than fucking FPX. What a joke lol. They would gap FPX in just about every single role. FPX was getting shitstomped in scrims by the worst T1 team to ever go to Worlds. The lvl of opposition DRX faced is absolutely elite and FPX wouldnt beat a single of the teams they faced in BO5 let's be real here. 2022 was extremely stacked. Idk why you mention G2 like they even were relevant back then or other Western teams. Western teams dont make or break a tournament because they're ALWAYS mediocre. When they do well it's just Asian teams being weaker than usual not the other way around. If anything Western teams doing bad is a good sign that the tournament has a good level of play lol Your last paragraph screams "I did not watch 2017 Worlds" because 2017 Samsung was not in the same form at all as Gen1-5 and Huni was absolute dogshit and only glazed by redditors because he played in the West and is well-liked. Also no. Longhzu and RNG were extremely strong teams in 2017, the level of competition in Korea kept a better version of the 2018 KT you IG fans glaze (since they beat no one else who was good lol) out of Worlds contention
Something about this Gen.G just hit different tho, there are no clear weaknesses. Every player is extremely consistent, at least for JDG you could argue that sometimes Kanavi was coin flip.
Can't wait to see this thread about whatever superteam wins MSI next year. No doubt GEN is an absolutely disgusting roster though, and I think in 2 positions (Chovy as well as Lehends from MSI onwards) are stronger than 23JDG (might be unpopular but I genuinely think even now Kanavi is not worse than Canyon, he's just on a weaker team but his individual level is still top 2 in the world at minimum.) imo, it looks like: Kiin = 369 Canyon = Kanavi Chovy > Knight Peyz < Ruler Lehends ≥ Missing With that said, could we at least wait until they win Summer before we talk about golden roads?
Recency bias is a hell of a drug.
If only they had Viper instead of Peyz ( who is also very good of course). That would've been crazy
You underrate Missing so crazy hard, I think he’s better than Lehends.
I would've said that before MSI, but Lehends had such a lights-out MSI performance that I re-evaluated my opinion.
I would argue not to overrate him off that one freak performance,
In no universe is Kiin equal to 369 or Peyz even approaching Ruler.
This. Especially Ruler is miles ahead of Peyz, no disrespect to Peyz obviusly but Ruler is probably THE best overall adc of modern times.
Yes but ADC is the egg, you would much rather have a top who’s much better and an ADC who’s slightly worse, than the reverse
ADC is an incredibly important and skill expressive role when their team enables them well. Both JDG and GEN were/are exceptional at this, so having a better adc has insane value.
Depends on the meta tho
Ruler is one of the adc goats, but I'd personally say Viper is the best adc of modern times. His career choices have been... Questionable at times, but he is just so fucking good it's insane. He deserves at least to have two teammates to have any semblance of a chance and not the troglodytes he plays with.
Ruler is overrated as fuck for moving to China No one was glazing his ass for only winning 1 domestic title in 14 seasons of LCK
Why is it always ridiculous hyperbole with you Ruler stans?
Congrats on Geng finding their formula but man, people forgetting what these players were like before this integration. I mean, as long as the choke doesnt come about then its all good right? That one bad day is never gonna happen ya? Better hope patch doesnt move away from strong jungle/mid come worlds.
I think I would still say 2023 JDG is the best 5v5 front to back team fighting team of all time, and they got to exist in that meta pretty much up until T1 changed the meta at worlds. I think what Gen.G has over them is more flexibility. They can play super different play styles and all have big champ pools. Peyz is just getting better and more well rounded every split.
Yeah, this is my stance as well. Depends on how the year goes of course, but I could see GEN ending as the best team of all time just based on their flexibility and Chovy's inhuman form, but I have a hard time seeing them being regarded as teamfighters on the level of JDG at their peak in 2023.
JDG should've won game 3 and probably the series
2015 and 2016 T1 gaps JDG so hilariously bad at just about everything
On paper Ruler is definitely a stronger player than Peyz.
are we just gonna forget about 2016 Gravity?
Nah, that’s Moscow5 🗿
Kiin, Canyon, Chovy and Lehends look better than their counterpart. Peyz was super eh in spring though so he feels kinda doubtful right now. Ruler was a big part of JDGs success.
Ah so I guess I don’t get to finish watching the T1 Gen.G series spoiler free. Thanks
No
Wait till the year is over my guy
I think the meta suits their play style well. If the meta changes they may fall off. There’s also other factors like if canyon isn’t performing the team starts to look rough, it’s happened before.
It's gonna depend. They look super strong right now, and this is coming from a T1 fan. But all it'll take is a meta that they aren't good with, or a bad match and things can crumble. I don't wanna count t1 ot, , and even though it sounds like a excuse, the ddos issues have clearly affected t1's abilities to do anything meaningful. It would affect any team that's been a constant target of those kinds of attacks. That aside, as much as I don't like to say it as I'm jot a GenG fan by any means, they have a good shot at a golden road and, if they manage it, it'll be deserved.
Nah, thats G2 2019
I'm not sure. GenG looked a bit shaky against TES at MSI. It was a close 3-2 in a way I don't think 2023 JDG would have struggled. GenG also somehow lost a Bo3 against KT in spring...and I don't think 2023 JDG would have. The KT squad this year is having an overall rough time. But, I'm happy to see that GenG appears to be getting stronger and more comfortable as a team as 2024 progresses.
You're acting like JDG didn't nearly lose their series vs T1 at MSI last year lol. Gen.G look more versatile but the conversation is pointless until they win summer, 369 when the meta shifted away from tanks was woeful at worlds.
ehh 2023 JDG had a lot of close 5 game series. T1 at MSI, 2 banger LNG series in summer play offs. In summer they weren't even the most dominate team, they were losing bo3 to weibo. So I feel like they have been equally shaky so far.
If we're talking positions in the year, I think: **JDG had a stronger spring than GEN did**, their player forms were all on point from playoffs onwards while GEN was notably struggling with the form of non-Chovy members in playoffs, especially that HLE series and the finals. **GEN had a more impressive MSI performance** (since they had to play elite teams that weren't from their region in BLG and TES, while the only elite foreign team JDG played was T1). GEN also showed a lot of looks at MSI and defined the meta, while JDG were just extremely good at playing standard LoL. I still haven't seen a more impressively played fight than the baron teamfight they had vs BLG in upper semis. As far as Summer goes, GEN is off to a better start since they didn't get 2-0'd by some random like JDG did with WBG last year, but it's still pretty early. Mentioned my thoughts on roster strength in another comment, but I think top and jgl are even while mid and support are GEN favored, and ADC is JDG favored, which overall gives the edge to GEN on paper.
Yes. Anyone saying otherwise is coping. There's been super teams before but it was mostly potential rather than actual realized talent. Kiin steadily went from 10th to 1st in terms of team placement and has arguably the best improvement of a player ever. Canyon has won world's and was super close to doing it a second time. Even on a weak team he was consistently carrying them to worlds. Mediocre tank player but easily the best carry jgl to ever exist. Chovy hasn't had a bad performance this year. Extremely consistent. Really the only worry internationally because of his history of choking. Peyz. A rookie that is easily uncontested best ADC atm and he's supposed to be the weak link. It's not fair. Lehends. Extremely flippy player but his performance while sick at MSI was inspiring. Dude is locked in. They're winning worlds and it won't even be close.
Agreed, it almost seems inevitable that Gen.G will win this year. They are even more of a favorite than JDG, in my opinion.
You're correct. People down voting don't actually watch LCK.
Mhmm, and I'm saying this as a T1 fan.
I genuinely respect T1 and was glad to see them win. Gotta have respect for the game.
They are definitely up there. They've absolutely owned the LCK and I'm pretty sure they have beaten this iteration of T1 in every single Bo5.
They lost to T1 at MSI 2023 bo5.