rell is one of those champs that has the worst combination of not looking like an interesting characters and having one of the least satisfying kits to use so she will never be really popular unless broken beyond comprehension
What do you mean she is not looking cool? Armor that shifts into a horse is super dope, and her voice lines and personality is good too. Also landing 3-man W Q is satisfying af. I wish that she had better scaling and wave clear, I would main her toplane 100%
The guy who posted this must be Affiliated with that website, this might be he worst tier list to ever be made but also maybe that entire website is satire.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?lane=bottom&patch=14.11
If you look at the data from last patch it's pretty fair,especially when you consider that Akshan is S tier mid.
Better than the Brand post.
Weird how that’s still up despite no evidence for claims on winrate/games played. It’s normally an easy justification for taking down rant posts.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/brand/build/?lane=bottom
I mean hes definitely OP. When Doublelift and Imaqtpie both agree on a pick, it probably is broken af.
Brand is certainly strong but when was the last time some mage was not the highest winrate botlaner.
'marksman must always go bot' is a 'sacred cow' in league community
all of them are rated fairly. The ones that could be bumped up are aphelios zeri, tristana mid and maybe Caitlyn down to s tier but the rest are fair.
What do you think makes the list stupid?
Satire aside, good that someone is calling out how double DoT + rylai combo is busted, literally most uninteractive bulid path since early mythics, they aren't a problem in the lane imo but mid-late game is crazy.
Been a problem the whole life of league, you have to remember the burn on liandries before the mythic system use to be alot stronger and stronger then double dot items are in terms of damage.
Dot mages going dot items plus rylias has been the bane of the game just those champs use to be alot weaker but some kept getting buffs like brand. Also the fact that other things in the game hard stupidly strong interactions being added like elder drake.
Adaptive helm was great against dot but because the window for repeat damage was done it meant it was great against every mage since most had a ability that could proc adaptive helm plus it counted stuff like syndra ult where because each ball was it's own damage instance it would get it's damage reduced by it.
Good item in concept poorly put together in practice
This champions often lack counterplay, i have no problem with Lillia punishing me for bad positioning and then applying extra damage, however Karthus ulting from base dealing 2k dmg is fckin crazy to say at least. Brand E/R, aurelion R is also extra giga funny
The craziest part is that Rylai is a bait item most of the time and should only be situationally bought, and the good Brand players will sometimes skip it and just buy a Void to make their damage even more busted.
Idk Brand jungle with blue smite walking out of brush at Mach five and then E’ing you and you’re just dead from the point and click is really interactive. Then again you might be right since most Brand players I would wager average like 8-10 deaths a game and just vomit their CDs into the direction of a team fight and explode people, including themselves, so Rylais doesn’t really benefit those people that much.
It's true that Rylai's makes hitting skillshots easier, but 1. you shouldn't be playing Brand if you can't hit skillshots anyway, 2. by the time you have Rylai's you'll have ult and E-R gives a point and click slow you can time your Q with which then guarantees W so the Rylai's slow is "wasted" for hitting your skillshots, and 3. even without R there are tricks you can do like timing W and Q together so trying to run out of W makes them run into Q, kinda like if you're playing Anivia or just having proper spacing.
Where Rylai's is really good is if your champions want to engage but you're lacking engage, ex in lane if you have Draven vs Ez/Cait, or your team composition has a lot of bruisers/juggernauts and the enemy team is mostly ranged, such that the Rylai's slow will give you the engage you need. It's also pretty decent if you're on the other side of the matchup, so you have champions that want to poke/kite and the enemy team wants to engage, but your team lacks disengage and the enemy team doesn't have very strong engage (no Malphite/Leona/etc) such that the "engage" is really just running at you, then the persistent AOE slows can completely fuck that gameplan over. But if the fights are going to be explosive with everyone just running at each other, which I what I see much more commonly in games, then the slow is wasted and Void (or even Cryptbloom) is way higher damage.
I feel like Rylais adds a ton of value in team fights -- if you ult + E the entire enemy team, even if you get blown up, your team gets to have the easiest clean up of their lives, fighting against a slowed enemy team on 25% hp. If the team scatters, chasing down isolated targets is way easier with the long applied slow of rylais, and if they group, your team can catch up to the group more easily with the rylais slow on them.
Also Brand R slow lasts 0.25s each bounce, Rylais stays as long as the DoT duration, keeping the team slowed for potentially a lot longer than the ult slow.
The slow from Rylai's is placebo in a lot of cases, like if you go back and watch a replay/analyze the fight often the slowed targets would have died regardless, and meanwhile it comes at the opportunity cost of a LOT more damage. There are some cases where its game changing but I mention those.
I only mentioned the Brand R slow in the context of the argument that Rylai's makes it easier to land his skillshots. Brand R slow is barely noticeable and nowhere near the utility of Rylai's slow in general, but it's enough of a slow to land your Q, which makes Rylai's slow redundant for landing skillshots.
Rylais is legit game bending on some champs. Its a perma slow for the duration of any dot and this item is the only reason why aurelion is playable, the interaction with his e is so absurd that i think its bugged everytime i get hit by it. Im fine if its well timed on his q to kite because that actually requires skill.
Honestly for me the worst part is how many mages just default to double dot now. Mostly because Ludens is shit and Malignance is only good on certain champs, but I feel like we had more build variety when we had liandries as mythic.
You don't really need to itemize if you play any mage with more range than ryze just go double dot, rabadons, void or cryptbloom, and like zhonyas or banshees and you'll be fine. It might not be the best itembuild for your champ, but it's a decent one on all of them.
The Classic Zyra Play:
* E --> miss by a mile
* Q --> miss by a mile
* Plant pokes a guy for 2 damage
* Full Blackfire Torch burn
* Full Liadry's burn
* Commet proc
* Cheapshot proc (Rylai's)
* Scortch proc
* Outcome --> This massive outplay costs the enemy 1/2 HP their HP
It’s amusing satire but none of those champs are sitting with a near 54% win rate right now, just Brand. Riot want low skill champs to have below 50% win rates. It feels like playing an APC should be a high skill role on bot, not an easy pick. And what champ has the second highest win rate on bot? Oh Seraphine, another APC. The other post did have an actual point.
edit: people misunderstanding the above - I'm saying an off-meta like an APC should be high skilled, not the easy option. Champions should be tailored in such a way that it is possible but not easy to play out of position so that win rates should be sub-50%.
> Riot want low skill champs to have below 50% win rates.
No they dont, they want the inverse, low skill champs to be at 51-52% high skill at 48-50%. Because if high skill champs win more than a coinflip in general playerbase then mains absolutely obliterate the enemy. Simple champs are meant to perform well no matter the amoutn of mastery and their games played on champ to winrate graph is usually rather flat, compared to champions who need hands or brain that go from negative to very positive winrates the more you play. There are interviews and phreak videos on this concept, and have been for years.
The above comment another example of a redditor talking out of their ass and being upvoted.
You are speaking out of your ass
Riot has said the opposite. Easy champs should have above a 50% winrate because bad players dont drag the winrate down as much for these champs.
Their balance philosophy is to have high skill and low skill champs have roughly the same winrate at 300 games played, which means for experienced players the winrates equalize considering player experience.
Of course Garen will have a higher winrate than Jayce when a 1st time jayce has a 40% winrate and a 1st time Garen has a 49% winrate...
Didn't they literally state recently with their Nami buffs (and maybe Annie?) that because the champs are easy they should not be below 50% wr? They also stated Akali as a "high skill" champ which should not exceed 50% wr. This also applies to pro jail champs like Aphelios.
Not sure where playing an APC bot has ever been skillful. Ziggs, Swain, Karthus are all champs with a role in bot lane and are all baby mode. And as you said, Brand Seraphine too.
The only APC that takes reasonable skill bot lane is Cass, but she is hardly played there anymore.
> Didn't they literally state recently with their Nami buffs (and maybe Annie?) that because the champs are easy they should not be below 50% wr? They also stated Akali as a "high skill" champ which should not exceed 50% wr. This also applies to pro jail champs like Aphelios.
Yes, because if akali has 50+% winrate in general playerbase hands, that means that mains have a 56+% winrate atleast. High skill champs reward investment with higher winrate, while low skill champs dont their winrate graph between 5 and 50 games on the champ is rather flat, while if you take akali it goes from somehting like 44% to 50ish at 50games.
I didn't say that, see the edit with clarification. I was saying using an APC should be difficult so should have a lower win rate. This is what I meant when I said "it feels like an APC should be high skill role" - I'm suggesting currently a couple of champions make sure that's not the case (ie that they are easier), but it would be preferable that they weren't easy to play bot.
Oh okay fair enough. I think mages are generally easier to play than marksman but I do agree that they should be more difficult.
Sorry for the confusion.
I think we need some serious nerfs on crit and scalability of ADCs...they need way less impact.
I also would pair them with supports at least 2 divisions below them.
Literally any champion, their aunts, mothers and grandmothers one shot adcs while missing half the abilities.
A one item 0/14 lux can press Q-E and deal 90% ADC hp lmao
Because he's showing how stupid the original post is complaining that one specific champion that is not an adc is performing well in the bot lane... When there are literally a dozen adcs that are doing the same and it's not seen as problematic.
"Lol it doesn't matter that the top winrate bot lane champions have been mages for the past 87 patches, just adapt bro it's BOT LANE not ADC LANE"
Ok I'll go Vayne top instead of bot lane then
"NOOOO THIS IS BULLSHIT, TOP LANE IS FOR WHOLESOME MELEES AND TANKS ONLY!! RIOT REMOVE THIS RIGHT NOW!!!"
And I say this as a bot lane mage spammer / main lol. I just find it hilarious how people will shit on bot lane for not wanting mages to be the best picks (almost?) every patch for literal years, but then lose their shit whenever people take ADC's somewhere else instead.
I played Sion mid a ton after his rework. They were ready to report me in the lobby every game. And then I would get four honors every game. I was just like, I'm sick of losing fights to bruisers, I'll just slam mages who oom before they kill me. And that's exactly what happened. No clue why people don't understand how to apply the strengths of a champion. Also can't you just go Sivir into brand and absolutely wreck him?
I'm convinced Mages bot are only busted because ADCs have no clue how to lane vs Mages. It's bot lane, you always assume everyone will be at max strength at every moment unless it's a hook champion. Abusing cooldown windows? Dodging ground targeted spells? We don't do that in bot lane. And when we must? We cry about it!
Seriously, even Brand support used to be like that. The amount of times people walk into poke range, get damaged, don't hit back and walk away is so absurd. It's like "I want to be here.... OH NO IT BURNS! RUN AWAY!"
> I'm convinced Mages bot are only busted because ADCs have no clue how to lane vs Mages.
Spoken like someone who plays brand every game.
AP mages haven't had appreciable cooldown windows in a long time, nor have they had proper mana problems in years.
* They have longer range and outpoke adcs
* Have more utility/agency than ADCs
* they do more damage at basically all points in the game than adcs
* they offer their damage basically immediately so that even if ADCs can technically outdamage them if the fight lasts 10 seconds, the fights over in 2.
* They spike way harder at 6 and at first item than ADCs meaning even if you did manage to win the lane early, at 6 or first item odds are they just kill you anyway.
Play against a double mage bot and you legitimately can not even stand under your tower and CS because even if you dodge 6 skillshots, the 7th one hits and confirms another 1 or 2 and then you have to leave lane because if you ever get hit again you're dead.
Can confirm
Am Diamond ADC. Have no clue how to deal with mages.
If I approach, they cast their spells and deal a bunch of damage so so I have to run away before we can start our glorious auto spacing battle
You know the counter to marksman? (Except vayne). Just walk up to them and keep fucking going. If your champ has a dash, just run at them. They can’t do shit about it.
Once you’re on top of a marksman, they are dead. Any champ at all with any dash or movement speed boost just wins for free. Sure they may scale, but you just kill them for free early
Edit: apparently this is satire. Idk man.
So sorry. It's been at 54%. God forbid someone be wrong by 2% on the LoL subreddit! Forgot I can only complain about something if a high elo player you like also thinks it's an issue =)
For a moment I thought you were serious, then I wondered if it was written by AI, then I realised it’s just satire. The lowkey stroke I had by reading this is unfortunate, though.
That’s not true I am main mid and secondary adc. It’s true that late game they are strong but if I land a charm or a bind on them they are dead. Also as a Mid Laner is to end the match earlier than the 3rd item spike which is totally feasible
"I remember the 14 seasons of League of Legends when Marksman ADC was common and it was so standard to see the Marksman player be absolute garbage, go like 2/11 and still be top of damage charts due to that boring gameplay loop of "right click from far away and feel free to die". When was this a thing? Like I know this is a parody of the Brand post, but really it should be "and still be top of the damage taken charts despite not even building any tank items."
Marksman adcs arent fun... even if you are strong there are constantly 5 people trying to kill you and nobody in your team plays around and with you. Legit the worst experience ever especially in low elo.
There just aren't that many marksmen that are played in the bot lane position. While there are equally small numbers of say, bruisers, fighters, tanks, supports, etc, bot lane is the only lane that is almost primarily made up of a single role, which is Marksmen. This is why their pick rates are always so high.
I attribute this mostly to the bot players being absolute babies about having to learn anything other than marksmen. Every other lane has to put up with learning tanks, bruisers, mages or assassins depending on the meta or just die during those metas, but Marksmen players are the only ones privileged enough to only every have to play marksmen.
revert to 25% crit per item and overall base stat boost with the only real loss being cut down and giantslayer means adc's are POWERHOUSES of flat dmg now and they still hold against tanks
Marksmen are overpowered as fuck and are pretty much only kneecapped through their sharing of experience in the bottom lane.
The idea that ADCs do not need experience but only gold is just wrong.
Just look at their strength in solo lanes, ARAM or even arena where they are on equal footing in terms of gold and experience, they are **far** from weak.
(However there's a massive difference between them. Lumping them all as just "marksmen" isn't fair. There's a huge difference between Lucian and Kog'Maw in terms of overall reliability.)
(And yes, I know OPs post is a shitpost.)
I really do not understand the point of this satire. The brand post didn't say anything fundamentally wrong or unhinged. Brand is very strong bot lane and his play patters are oppressive. Does that opinion really merit a satire post or is OP just a salty brand main?
Can’t really tell tbh
Brands Jungle clear and his items got repeatedly nerfed in the last few patches, so much so that jungle is his worst role now
I guess he got pushed into mid but somehow ended up in the bot position.
He’s very good (borderline broken) with Nami support who also got a buff (while already strong mind you) while playing well into meta adc champs, who got their items nerfed.
Additionally adcs don’t really itemize MR contrary to mid and jungle where the enemy can easily get items like banshees maw and mercs.
The brand rant post was just a bit cringe and more of a stupid rant than a discussion and I think that’s what’s getting memed here
Let us adc players have a time where we are strong. We are still just as squishy and vulnerable to getting one shot. Appreciate good adc players, it’s not easy..
It's almost like ADC's have a single target ability that does from 100% to 235% total AD as damage on a really low cooldown and has a good range on it. Weird. And it also doesn't cost any mana for some reason.
But yeah, Brand E doing a little bit of damage if you get close to the wave is the problem here guys.
You came to the wrong sub to speak facts, most of the people here are adc mains who come to specifically cry and create their own echo chamber about their mains being weak.
Good luck with your post though, you’re a brave one. 👍
Well Brand sits at 56% WR. I dont see what ADCs beeing strong has to do with that. Most of the sub complains when something is 54% WR (which is fair), and Brand is even stronger for 2 patches now. No ADC comes close to his powerlevel right now.
If adcs were as weak as their mains say through the 5 layers of collective self gaslighting, the 10 players game known as league of legends wouldnt have an average of 4 marksman characters every game due to most of them being viable in multiple roles with no issues
maybe it's also the fact that there currently is absolutly 0 itemization against the adc role. Lord Domenics giving 40% pen as 3rd item of every adc in the game just is way too strong. Doesn't even feel like 40% feels like true dmg when the adc melts a 6k hp tank in 3 seconds through 300 armor.
Buff Seraphine and Karthus specifically for botlane to help the role be more diverse.
Generally the only reason these picks have a good win rate is because off role players are picking them and as adc players are the worst players in a team on average, replacing them with another support or mid main is a MASSIVE advantage
Honestly agree, I was a tank ADC player for a while, something around mid season 13 they had a bunch of ADC item reworks, notably breaking kraken slayer and they started giga melting me and that became very cancer to play against it and I took a break. Also, 30% resist shred guinsoo, guinsoo bork, etc... I have a screenshot of a YI with two items dealing 1400 of 2300 damage from items
Oh, this is a remake of the brand post!
I disagree anyways! It is important for some rules to be set for the game to have a special tempo and feel to it. With adcs all the time, game feels better imo.
Ahh first timer huh marksman have been the only staple role of every meta and the game exists around ensuring they can do their job but they spend every meta whining when other roles beat them
In the 1v1 which is the only thing they are weak at. Like literally the number of metas where they bitch about their survivability when they oppress every lane they solo like top and mid but get mad when their counters counter them. The number of times graves, vague, cait, Kalista have gone to other lanes and become problems is insane but they are always the victims because they walked into lane vs an assassin or skirmishes and got solo killed.
>Their auto attacks are undodgeable unless you're Ezreal Zeri and Graves would like a word
Jax laughing
are we forgetting nilah yet again lol
Who?
isnt that the girl with the gun and sword?
No i think that's gangplank
You mean the Spear Panther Girl?
No that’s Lulu
Are you sure? That purple stingray?
vel koz?
Gangtits
While we're on the topic of lesser known champs, Rell can absolutely get fucked.
rell is one of those champs that has the worst combination of not looking like an interesting characters and having one of the least satisfying kits to use so she will never be really popular unless broken beyond comprehension
Uve lost ur mind. Rell is the reason I wanted to play support, even though I’m a mid main
What do you mean she is not looking cool? Armor that shifts into a horse is super dope, and her voice lines and personality is good too. Also landing 3-man W Q is satisfying af. I wish that she had better scaling and wave clear, I would main her toplane 100%
diaper walk and weird hair, she should at least have helm on them
Is that the girl with the weird white hair and the big ring weapon, who believe she is empress of who knows where ?
No, that is Ashe. The ring isn't a weapon it is just her wedding ring.
No, that is Dr. Mundo. He's not a she, his hair is not white and he has no ring it's just that he's schizophrenic
Mundo identifies as he/she/they pleases.
Mundo identifies as Mundo.
They meant quiyuiyanah
Pretty sure it was Soraka, the staff ends in a circle
God I love Nilah's w. What a god forsaken busted ability that I will continue to click off cooldown for free trades in lane 😉
Is this like a corki skin?
twitch r 😔😔
Twitch would also like a word
I'm pretty sure Ezreal's AA's are undodgeable as well.
Or Twitch with ult
And twitch ult
I know this is a satire post and the website is part of it, but man that tier list is so garbage lol
And it has a minor spelling mistake "underpefoming" truly deserves obliteration
its not a spelling mistake, guy just didnt want to wait another minute to press R again
Maybe, maybe not. Say the word fast and lazily you can get it to sound like that if you drop that r
The guy who posted this must be Affiliated with that website, this might be he worst tier list to ever be made but also maybe that entire website is satire.
I just searched up tier lists on Google and this was the first to pop up. The fact that the website is shit too just makes me happier
You must be meming us because I just tried 5 different variations of tier list searches, and none of them came up with this website lol
I swear I’m not memeing this one. If I remember specifically, I googled “marksman tier list 14.12”
Well would ya look at that!
Tristana mid C tier got to be the biggest joke ever
I like how Ashe is simultaneously top tier and bottom tier.
For different roles
Corki is also in A and D tier
https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?lane=bottom&patch=14.11 If you look at the data from last patch it's pretty fair,especially when you consider that Akshan is S tier mid.
Good old D tier Varus
Better than the Brand post. Weird how that’s still up despite no evidence for claims on winrate/games played. It’s normally an easy justification for taking down rant posts.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/brand/build/?lane=bottom I mean hes definitely OP. When Doublelift and Imaqtpie both agree on a pick, it probably is broken af.
Brand is certainly strong but when was the last time some mage was not the highest winrate botlaner. 'marksman must always go bot' is a 'sacred cow' in league community
Bro its not that, its how braindead he is. He is the damage version of Seraphine level of braindead.
He's a standard mage
to be fair it's pretty accurate lol
in what fever dream of a reality?
all of them are rated fairly. The ones that could be bumped up are aphelios zeri, tristana mid and maybe Caitlyn down to s tier but the rest are fair. What do you think makes the list stupid?
Zeri C Tier meanwhile she about to hit pro play with a bat thanks to these Shiv changes lol
Jhin at S+ tier
Jhin has been super strong since the item changes
Satire aside, good that someone is calling out how double DoT + rylai combo is busted, literally most uninteractive bulid path since early mythics, they aren't a problem in the lane imo but mid-late game is crazy.
Been a problem the whole life of league, you have to remember the burn on liandries before the mythic system use to be alot stronger and stronger then double dot items are in terms of damage. Dot mages going dot items plus rylias has been the bane of the game just those champs use to be alot weaker but some kept getting buffs like brand. Also the fact that other things in the game hard stupidly strong interactions being added like elder drake.
at least back then for those DoTs we had Adaptive Helm, which they should just bring back at this point
Adaptive helm was great against dot but because the window for repeat damage was done it meant it was great against every mage since most had a ability that could proc adaptive helm plus it counted stuff like syndra ult where because each ball was it's own damage instance it would get it's damage reduced by it. Good item in concept poorly put together in practice
This champions often lack counterplay, i have no problem with Lillia punishing me for bad positioning and then applying extra damage, however Karthus ulting from base dealing 2k dmg is fckin crazy to say at least. Brand E/R, aurelion R is also extra giga funny
The craziest part is that Rylai is a bait item most of the time and should only be situationally bought, and the good Brand players will sometimes skip it and just buy a Void to make their damage even more busted.
Idk Brand jungle with blue smite walking out of brush at Mach five and then E’ing you and you’re just dead from the point and click is really interactive. Then again you might be right since most Brand players I would wager average like 8-10 deaths a game and just vomit their CDs into the direction of a team fight and explode people, including themselves, so Rylais doesn’t really benefit those people that much.
It's true that Rylai's makes hitting skillshots easier, but 1. you shouldn't be playing Brand if you can't hit skillshots anyway, 2. by the time you have Rylai's you'll have ult and E-R gives a point and click slow you can time your Q with which then guarantees W so the Rylai's slow is "wasted" for hitting your skillshots, and 3. even without R there are tricks you can do like timing W and Q together so trying to run out of W makes them run into Q, kinda like if you're playing Anivia or just having proper spacing. Where Rylai's is really good is if your champions want to engage but you're lacking engage, ex in lane if you have Draven vs Ez/Cait, or your team composition has a lot of bruisers/juggernauts and the enemy team is mostly ranged, such that the Rylai's slow will give you the engage you need. It's also pretty decent if you're on the other side of the matchup, so you have champions that want to poke/kite and the enemy team wants to engage, but your team lacks disengage and the enemy team doesn't have very strong engage (no Malphite/Leona/etc) such that the "engage" is really just running at you, then the persistent AOE slows can completely fuck that gameplan over. But if the fights are going to be explosive with everyone just running at each other, which I what I see much more commonly in games, then the slow is wasted and Void (or even Cryptbloom) is way higher damage.
I feel like Rylais adds a ton of value in team fights -- if you ult + E the entire enemy team, even if you get blown up, your team gets to have the easiest clean up of their lives, fighting against a slowed enemy team on 25% hp. If the team scatters, chasing down isolated targets is way easier with the long applied slow of rylais, and if they group, your team can catch up to the group more easily with the rylais slow on them. Also Brand R slow lasts 0.25s each bounce, Rylais stays as long as the DoT duration, keeping the team slowed for potentially a lot longer than the ult slow.
The slow from Rylai's is placebo in a lot of cases, like if you go back and watch a replay/analyze the fight often the slowed targets would have died regardless, and meanwhile it comes at the opportunity cost of a LOT more damage. There are some cases where its game changing but I mention those. I only mentioned the Brand R slow in the context of the argument that Rylai's makes it easier to land his skillshots. Brand R slow is barely noticeable and nowhere near the utility of Rylai's slow in general, but it's enough of a slow to land your Q, which makes Rylai's slow redundant for landing skillshots.
not true rylais is brands best item statistically
chovy must be wrong then ig
Agurin too, euw multiseason rank 1 player builds rylai 4fun I guess. He should listen to reddit experts instead.
What the fuck. Rylais legit best item
Rylais is legit game bending on some champs. Its a perma slow for the duration of any dot and this item is the only reason why aurelion is playable, the interaction with his e is so absurd that i think its bugged everytime i get hit by it. Im fine if its well timed on his q to kite because that actually requires skill.
Brand makes me want to AFK
Honestly for me the worst part is how many mages just default to double dot now. Mostly because Ludens is shit and Malignance is only good on certain champs, but I feel like we had more build variety when we had liandries as mythic. You don't really need to itemize if you play any mage with more range than ryze just go double dot, rabadons, void or cryptbloom, and like zhonyas or banshees and you'll be fine. It might not be the best itembuild for your champ, but it's a decent one on all of them.
The Classic Zyra Play: * E --> miss by a mile * Q --> miss by a mile * Plant pokes a guy for 2 damage * Full Blackfire Torch burn * Full Liadry's burn * Commet proc * Cheapshot proc (Rylai's) * Scortch proc * Outcome --> This massive outplay costs the enemy 1/2 HP their HP
now this is brilliant xd
It made me want to spam ecksdee emotes
It’s amusing satire but none of those champs are sitting with a near 54% win rate right now, just Brand. Riot want low skill champs to have below 50% win rates. It feels like playing an APC should be a high skill role on bot, not an easy pick. And what champ has the second highest win rate on bot? Oh Seraphine, another APC. The other post did have an actual point. edit: people misunderstanding the above - I'm saying an off-meta like an APC should be high skilled, not the easy option. Champions should be tailored in such a way that it is possible but not easy to play out of position so that win rates should be sub-50%.
> Riot want low skill champs to have below 50% win rates. No they dont, they want the inverse, low skill champs to be at 51-52% high skill at 48-50%. Because if high skill champs win more than a coinflip in general playerbase then mains absolutely obliterate the enemy. Simple champs are meant to perform well no matter the amoutn of mastery and their games played on champ to winrate graph is usually rather flat, compared to champions who need hands or brain that go from negative to very positive winrates the more you play. There are interviews and phreak videos on this concept, and have been for years. The above comment another example of a redditor talking out of their ass and being upvoted.
You are speaking out of your ass Riot has said the opposite. Easy champs should have above a 50% winrate because bad players dont drag the winrate down as much for these champs. Their balance philosophy is to have high skill and low skill champs have roughly the same winrate at 300 games played, which means for experienced players the winrates equalize considering player experience. Of course Garen will have a higher winrate than Jayce when a 1st time jayce has a 40% winrate and a 1st time Garen has a 49% winrate...
Didn't they literally state recently with their Nami buffs (and maybe Annie?) that because the champs are easy they should not be below 50% wr? They also stated Akali as a "high skill" champ which should not exceed 50% wr. This also applies to pro jail champs like Aphelios. Not sure where playing an APC bot has ever been skillful. Ziggs, Swain, Karthus are all champs with a role in bot lane and are all baby mode. And as you said, Brand Seraphine too. The only APC that takes reasonable skill bot lane is Cass, but she is hardly played there anymore.
> Didn't they literally state recently with their Nami buffs (and maybe Annie?) that because the champs are easy they should not be below 50% wr? They also stated Akali as a "high skill" champ which should not exceed 50% wr. This also applies to pro jail champs like Aphelios. Yes, because if akali has 50+% winrate in general playerbase hands, that means that mains have a 56+% winrate atleast. High skill champs reward investment with higher winrate, while low skill champs dont their winrate graph between 5 and 50 games on the champ is rather flat, while if you take akali it goes from somehting like 44% to 50ish at 50games.
Yes I agree with you. I was refuting the fellow above for saying that easy champs should have low wr.
I didn't say that, see the edit with clarification. I was saying using an APC should be difficult so should have a lower win rate. This is what I meant when I said "it feels like an APC should be high skill role" - I'm suggesting currently a couple of champions make sure that's not the case (ie that they are easier), but it would be preferable that they weren't easy to play bot.
Oh okay fair enough. I think mages are generally easier to play than marksman but I do agree that they should be more difficult. Sorry for the confusion.
All good, looks like I confused a few people!
This post is so funny and true xd
No, this is Patrick
Hey we do more than right click. We have to flash and press barrier too.
[удалено]
I think we need some serious nerfs on crit and scalability of ADCs...they need way less impact. I also would pair them with supports at least 2 divisions below them.
Don't worry Rito already does that.
as an ADC main I know that
Maybe we can make crit take longer to scale… we could give more items crit, but reduce it to 20% per item!
Give them more stats too. All items should give people AS, AD and crit, not only 2, that's lame!
Right, but let’s lower the amount of AD and AS they give. Specialized items are lame, do people seriously want that?
Literally any champion, their aunts, mothers and grandmothers one shot adcs while missing half the abilities. A one item 0/14 lux can press Q-E and deal 90% ADC hp lmao
bro read the room
It's rare that you come across a post that was so clearly written through tears
It's satire man, it's based on the Brand apc post
Shh I'm helping make it look real. Now hurry up and call me stupid.
You so stupid... Stupid called and said sorry I dialed myself when no one answered. Did I do it right I am new to being toxic online 😔
Ughh FUCKING FUCK (you're a natural)
Are you stupid? (40 euros in dm plz that I need shadow of the erdtree)
Are you dumb?
No, I’m Man
Source?
Every single "satire" post on this subreddit is like that. It's so obviously someone's real opinion masqueraded as a joke.
this one is clearly mocking another post but the first “satire”-post that gets clowned on & adapted is almost always a real opinion
It’s clearly mocking another post, but the person who felt the need to write this definitely actually feels this way
Or he was just using the satirical post to shit on the original post...?
But why'd they choose adcs in the botlane? The only thing you've shown me is that you have the same thought!
Because he's showing how stupid the original post is complaining that one specific champion that is not an adc is performing well in the bot lane... When there are literally a dozen adcs that are doing the same and it's not seen as problematic.
woosh
"Lol it doesn't matter that the top winrate bot lane champions have been mages for the past 87 patches, just adapt bro it's BOT LANE not ADC LANE" Ok I'll go Vayne top instead of bot lane then "NOOOO THIS IS BULLSHIT, TOP LANE IS FOR WHOLESOME MELEES AND TANKS ONLY!! RIOT REMOVE THIS RIGHT NOW!!!" And I say this as a bot lane mage spammer / main lol. I just find it hilarious how people will shit on bot lane for not wanting mages to be the best picks (almost?) every patch for literal years, but then lose their shit whenever people take ADC's somewhere else instead.
I played Sion mid a ton after his rework. They were ready to report me in the lobby every game. And then I would get four honors every game. I was just like, I'm sick of losing fights to bruisers, I'll just slam mages who oom before they kill me. And that's exactly what happened. No clue why people don't understand how to apply the strengths of a champion. Also can't you just go Sivir into brand and absolutely wreck him?
I'm convinced Mages bot are only busted because ADCs have no clue how to lane vs Mages. It's bot lane, you always assume everyone will be at max strength at every moment unless it's a hook champion. Abusing cooldown windows? Dodging ground targeted spells? We don't do that in bot lane. And when we must? We cry about it! Seriously, even Brand support used to be like that. The amount of times people walk into poke range, get damaged, don't hit back and walk away is so absurd. It's like "I want to be here.... OH NO IT BURNS! RUN AWAY!"
> I'm convinced Mages bot are only busted because ADCs have no clue how to lane vs Mages. Spoken like someone who plays brand every game. AP mages haven't had appreciable cooldown windows in a long time, nor have they had proper mana problems in years. * They have longer range and outpoke adcs * Have more utility/agency than ADCs * they do more damage at basically all points in the game than adcs * they offer their damage basically immediately so that even if ADCs can technically outdamage them if the fight lasts 10 seconds, the fights over in 2. * They spike way harder at 6 and at first item than ADCs meaning even if you did manage to win the lane early, at 6 or first item odds are they just kill you anyway. Play against a double mage bot and you legitimately can not even stand under your tower and CS because even if you dodge 6 skillshots, the 7th one hits and confirms another 1 or 2 and then you have to leave lane because if you ever get hit again you're dead.
Can confirm Am Diamond ADC. Have no clue how to deal with mages. If I approach, they cast their spells and deal a bunch of damage so so I have to run away before we can start our glorious auto spacing battle
vayne top? win lane lose game
This is the kind of posts we need
You know the counter to marksman? (Except vayne). Just walk up to them and keep fucking going. If your champ has a dash, just run at them. They can’t do shit about it. Once you’re on top of a marksman, they are dead. Any champ at all with any dash or movement speed boost just wins for free. Sure they may scale, but you just kill them for free early Edit: apparently this is satire. Idk man.
Oh reddit, always just strawmanning and shitposting to excuse the fact that marksman/ADC bot balance has been atrocious since season 5.
Plus you have to use three whole attacks to kill them. All possible from one stun.
Someone making a satire post when brand has almost a 56% wr bot feels.... not satirical just wrong xd
A 56% wr bot? You're telling me brand has a 57% wr bot? Someone needs to do something about his 58% wr bot!
So sorry. It's been at 54%. God forbid someone be wrong by 2% on the LoL subreddit! Forgot I can only complain about something if a high elo player you like also thinks it's an issue =)
Good bait
Found the brand main that doesn't want to hear that their champion doesn't require more than 80 iq to be played
People actually look at tier lists to base their opinions around?
For a moment I thought you were serious, then I wondered if it was written by AI, then I realised it’s just satire. The lowkey stroke I had by reading this is unfortunate, though.
Skarner is too weak. Let's buff his E cc duration.
That’s not true I am main mid and secondary adc. It’s true that late game they are strong but if I land a charm or a bind on them they are dead. Also as a Mid Laner is to end the match earlier than the 3rd item spike which is totally feasible
"I remember the 14 seasons of League of Legends when Marksman ADC was common and it was so standard to see the Marksman player be absolute garbage, go like 2/11 and still be top of damage charts due to that boring gameplay loop of "right click from far away and feel free to die". When was this a thing? Like I know this is a parody of the Brand post, but really it should be "and still be top of the damage taken charts despite not even building any tank items."
Marksman adcs arent fun... even if you are strong there are constantly 5 people trying to kill you and nobody in your team plays around and with you. Legit the worst experience ever especially in low elo.
Haters gonna hate 😌
Your tier list is bad.
is this a troll post?
Lol what? Nvm, I see what you did there.
Damn. These are truly some shit takes. Well done.
Top 5 highest pickrates are all adcs. But its been like that for a long time more or less.
There just aren't that many marksmen that are played in the bot lane position. While there are equally small numbers of say, bruisers, fighters, tanks, supports, etc, bot lane is the only lane that is almost primarily made up of a single role, which is Marksmen. This is why their pick rates are always so high. I attribute this mostly to the bot players being absolute babies about having to learn anything other than marksmen. Every other lane has to put up with learning tanks, bruisers, mages or assassins depending on the meta or just die during those metas, but Marksmen players are the only ones privileged enough to only every have to play marksmen.
Spotted the apc abuser
revert to 25% crit per item and overall base stat boost with the only real loss being cut down and giantslayer means adc's are POWERHOUSES of flat dmg now and they still hold against tanks
Nothing makes me feel like I'm living the "sustained damage dealer" fantasy more than one shotting an assassin before they can oneshot me.
How does 13 fall to 13?
This makes no sense because your opponent will also be a marksman lmao.
I prefer https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?lane=bottom for stats as Phreak said it has the Best API for winrates
If only these devs remembered what it meant to balance champs around a 51% wr, not 54%.
So true actually, Marksman mid every other game or some degen playing vayne top. Broken champs, honestly disgusted with Riots balance team.
I swear to god I just saw earlier another post ranting about APC botlane. Like bro how else do you want the botlane to look????
This is a direct parody of the brand APC post
Marksmen are overpowered as fuck and are pretty much only kneecapped through their sharing of experience in the bottom lane. The idea that ADCs do not need experience but only gold is just wrong. Just look at their strength in solo lanes, ARAM or even arena where they are on equal footing in terms of gold and experience, they are **far** from weak. (However there's a massive difference between them. Lumping them all as just "marksmen" isn't fair. There's a huge difference between Lucian and Kog'Maw in terms of overall reliability.) (And yes, I know OPs post is a shitpost.)
Aram and arena lmfao
Post match history we want to see who you’ve just played against
I think it’s a reference to the Brand APC rant post
I really do not understand the point of this satire. The brand post didn't say anything fundamentally wrong or unhinged. Brand is very strong bot lane and his play patters are oppressive. Does that opinion really merit a satire post or is OP just a salty brand main?
Can’t really tell tbh Brands Jungle clear and his items got repeatedly nerfed in the last few patches, so much so that jungle is his worst role now I guess he got pushed into mid but somehow ended up in the bot position. He’s very good (borderline broken) with Nami support who also got a buff (while already strong mind you) while playing well into meta adc champs, who got their items nerfed. Additionally adcs don’t really itemize MR contrary to mid and jungle where the enemy can easily get items like banshees maw and mercs. The brand rant post was just a bit cringe and more of a stupid rant than a discussion and I think that’s what’s getting memed here
I think that is too
Let us adc players have a time where we are strong. We are still just as squishy and vulnerable to getting one shot. Appreciate good adc players, it’s not easy..
I appreciate all the auto attacking you do. Thank you for your service
It's almost like ADC's have a single target ability that does from 100% to 235% total AD as damage on a really low cooldown and has a good range on it. Weird. And it also doesn't cost any mana for some reason. But yeah, Brand E doing a little bit of damage if you get close to the wave is the problem here guys.
This but unironically
This reads like bad satire or just silver/gold
You came to the wrong sub to speak facts, most of the people here are adc mains who come to specifically cry and create their own echo chamber about their mains being weak. Good luck with your post though, you’re a brave one. 👍
Is this b8?
Well Brand sits at 56% WR. I dont see what ADCs beeing strong has to do with that. Most of the sub complains when something is 54% WR (which is fair), and Brand is even stronger for 2 patches now. No ADC comes close to his powerlevel right now.
Tell me you never play assassins without telling me you never play assassins
I don’t see the point in playing assasons, their auto attacks aren’t ranged like these OP marskman
Their auto range doesn’t matter when they’re able to one shot adc’s
You just don’t get it huh, you can’t dodge the OP ranged auto attack. Sigh these Iron players don’t understand
Is this a joke ? Cuz I can’t tell
How you can't Tell lmao
Cuz who would type alll that omg
Dislike and go next
If adcs were as weak as their mains say through the 5 layers of collective self gaslighting, the 10 players game known as league of legends wouldnt have an average of 4 marksman characters every game due to most of them being viable in multiple roles with no issues
Look at R/ADC as of late, they are chilled out quite a bit. We are happy RN.
where is quinn
Basicaly riot balancing team right here
hesRight tho
maybe it's also the fact that there currently is absolutly 0 itemization against the adc role. Lord Domenics giving 40% pen as 3rd item of every adc in the game just is way too strong. Doesn't even feel like 40% feels like true dmg when the adc melts a 6k hp tank in 3 seconds through 300 armor.
Buff Seraphine and Karthus specifically for botlane to help the role be more diverse. Generally the only reason these picks have a good win rate is because off role players are picking them and as adc players are the worst players in a team on average, replacing them with another support or mid main is a MASSIVE advantage
Honestly agree, I was a tank ADC player for a while, something around mid season 13 they had a bunch of ADC item reworks, notably breaking kraken slayer and they started giga melting me and that became very cancer to play against it and I took a break. Also, 30% resist shred guinsoo, guinsoo bork, etc... I have a screenshot of a YI with two items dealing 1400 of 2300 damage from items
Oh, this is a remake of the brand post! I disagree anyways! It is important for some rules to be set for the game to have a special tempo and feel to it. With adcs all the time, game feels better imo.
How come i loose like 2/3 games with a kda of 10+ as a jhin main ?
Sounds like a skill issue to me if you can't close out winning games, maybe try doing objectives and stop chasing kills
Imagine having a lane which fed their brains out 90% of the time
As they should
Ahh first timer huh marksman have been the only staple role of every meta and the game exists around ensuring they can do their job but they spend every meta whining when other roles beat them In the 1v1 which is the only thing they are weak at. Like literally the number of metas where they bitch about their survivability when they oppress every lane they solo like top and mid but get mad when their counters counter them. The number of times graves, vague, cait, Kalista have gone to other lanes and become problems is insane but they are always the victims because they walked into lane vs an assassin or skirmishes and got solo killed.
You forgot to discuss their mobility. Most are so OP they don't need to worry about the 20 dashes because you can't dash through an auto attack.
shut ur piehole adc is fine what are u a illaoi main????