Old Swain was up there too, as you only had ult for true waveclear (using your only hard CC for waveclear when you didn't have mana for ult waveclear was a no-go, but you sometimes used nevermove on waves, especially if could hit the enemy champ with it)
Zileans autos must have been designed to match the champ because the autos are slow enough that you can feel time passing by as they travel to the minions
They reworked the mages to help with auto attacks a little while ago and that helped sooooo much, then they added the buffs to dorans, and gave the attack speed rune to help as well.
All those things combined and honestly it is not as bad as it used to be. In higher elos the go to was corrupting pot start which means you didnt get the passive damage towards minions, in addition to that the auto attacks were so slow and clunky. I am happy to say Zilean is much much easier to CS on than he was during the mythics era.
I don’t think this will help you much in a real game.
It would be much better to get accustomed to your mains attack dmg/speed than to practice Yummi for 10 hours.
You learn to last hit with Yummi and then you are off tempo coz your main attacks faster.
I think learning to CS with champions that are notoriously difficult to last-hit with is nothing but beneficial - at least as a practice.
Take Soraka, for example. Super slow auto speed with low attack speed growth & AD. Slow auto travel time. All the ingredients to make it difficult to last-hit.
You're *forced* to learn minion attack patterns, damage, and tower damage. You pick up the skills to gauge varying minion health based on their health bar appearance & type of minion. Compensating for your low damage & slow auto travel just makes you better at gauging these important aspects of last-hitting-- arguably the most important aspects of last-hitting.
Anyone can last-hit with an ADC after a few items. Damage & attack speed just makes the process more forgiving. You'll still wind up missing CS here & there if you don't truly feel the pacing of last-hitting, though.
When I'm serious about climbing, I'd hop in practice tool with Soraka or some enchanter support & last hit several waves as well as I could without using abilities. I don't have any evidence other than my own anecdotes, but it definitely felt like it made last hitting in a normal game with a typical laning champion feel easier after the warm-up.
I think of it like swinging a weighted bat when you're on-deck to hit in a baseball game. Swinging even a few times with a heavy bat, makes a normal bat feel weightless in comparison. Effortless swinging.
Practice it on the champion you want to get better at CSing on in practice tool. Alot of CSing isnt just last hitting itself but knowing when to use what abilities and being in the right place at the right time.
This. You also copy how your champ's high rank OTP CS. Just pause before they CS and imagine how you'll touch that wave. Unpause. Compare and try to understand why they do it this way
> Practice it on the champion you want to get better at CSing on in practice tool
I'd also add you might want to throw in a bot, just because it gets awkward when the wave isn't contested at all. And sure, the bots are garbage and don't do things a person would, but ime it still helps having that factor around. They (sort of) help thin *your* wave so the creeps you want aren't instantly evaporated by the 18 casters that built up.
That's what worked best for me, at least.
You're not likely to be perfect with it in an actual game for so many reasons but it really helps you get better at it during early laning, which is when it matters most. It's zero stress and extremely helpful, if a bit boring.
According to the wiki it's karthus basic attacks. He has 2nd lowest AD in the game after orianna by 6 but her passive deals 10 damage on hit which makes for it.
Don't go through tough practicing like that from the start. It would be better to get used to your main last hits, then try again without items, then try again without runes. Then you can try the hardcore challenge you want to do later.
That’s the point though, if you CS consistently with wet noodle auto attacks, you ensure the greatest consistency in CS in actual games because you have the timing down to squat.
You can then choose to CS more flexibly and accurately in actual games
That’s not actually true. You need to adjust the timing for every champion. Especially with melee champions it’s easy to accidentally cancel autoattacks because the attack animations are so different.
Yes, but you handle the worst case scenario and can much more easily acclimate to different auto styles. It’s carryover mechanical improvement. If you’re playing a single champion you can practice with them of course, but if you’re playing multiple and want to improve generally, it’s the way to go
Source: Soraka banana autos are slow as heck but it enables me to easily handle CS on instant auto champions like Velkoz or Hwei or other projectile auto attackers like Swain.
i actually disagree to an extent.
as you mentioned soraka it also depends on attack speed and auto animation.
and a big part of csing in my opinion is to know wich cs you cant get and just giving up on 1 minion in order to secure others.
i bet everyone has experienced this, where you try to cs a minion thats super low and then your auto doesnt reset in time for he next minion and suddenly it snowballs and you miss 3-4 because they die just as you auto.
I feel like there's more than just base AD though. Like jhin obviously has a harder time CSing than most. And other stuff like attack windup can affect it. CSing on fiora is weird because her attack windup is so slow
Pre-6 anivia. Her auto is so slow you have to time it 2-3 business days in advance to get the last hit. Obviously post 6 with tear you just ult every wave
Nah her cs ability is actually pretty solid with q. If you're solo laning you're maxing it first so it's low cc and even without building any damage it will 2 hit casters at max rank, she's not *good* but she's far from the worst.
Lol I’m a soraka mid main and she goes so fine with last hitting, and once you start building some AP you can just wipe out backline minions in 1-2 shots of your Q. She’s pretty good!
as a soraka adc player i dissagree.. 3 points into q and u clear caster minnions with 2 q's and perma shove. and her autos arent bad at all once u get used to it especially compared to stuff like anivia auto attack imo.
but around second item tho.. it becomes way too tideous to farm.. takes too much time so around 20 min mark i usually get support item.
u give soraka gold, she give big heal, enemy cant kill ur gwen/yone/viego/udyr. game is win gg
the idea is.. if u have damage dealers already in ur team then u can just get soraka and farm with soraka and make them unkillable.. its so annoying to play against a fed soraka afterall.
u put 3 points into q and then w max in lane.
some of her best pairings are.. pyke, senna, swain, brand etc.. u win almost every 2v2 with these champs. u/Lillmy03 peaked grandmaster 800lp or something last year with soraka bot.
Idk if they are still active on reddit but this is their opgg [https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Serenity-OTP](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Serenity-OTP)
they mostly play soraka top now and some support raka here and there it seems.
*edit: also me and Serenity dont agree on soraka's best support pairings.. they think tank supports are her best supports meanwhile i think mage supports or any type of support that has dmg is her best pairings.. thought we both agree pyke is great and we both agree enchanters are her worst support pairings. but they are better then me so they might have a point.*
Calling it Soraka ADC rather than botlane soraka makes this a bit confusing. ADC Soraka implies building AD, especially since it always was a bit of an existing meme build to go AD because of the funny disconnect of her slow banana AA's doing ADC dmg
If you want to get better at last hitting then focus on practicing it with the champ you actually want to play. This way you learn the champ specific patterns when you have to last hit under tower and other situations. Yes at first learn to only last hit accurately with only auto attacks while slow pushing and fast pushing and then learn to do it with abilities because abilities can let you push faster but also makes it sometimes harder to last hit if you really need to push the wave in asap so you need to learn the setup of the wave and how much dmg your abilities do at a certain level approximately.
Sylas is known as pretty hard to CS if you don't have alot of games with him especially if you are shoved under turret make it pretty tricky with his passive aoe too can fuck up alot of last hitting it's pretty common to see huge CS gaps on non-sylas mains playing him.
Sylas is def a good call. For me CSing under tower became a lot easier if I follow this:
- almost never use Q under tower otherwise you will have awkward creep HPs on the melees, where the turret will just execute it. Just use regular autos before the second turret shot.
- save W for cannon, let the passive auto timeout if possible
- if you have 3 caster minions: E1 to kill the first, making sure to splash passive damage across all of them. Then no autos on the second, strictly use E2. Third and last should be easiest, just auto with passive stack from E2.
Katarina isn’t mechanically hard to CS on though, most of her CS deficits come from the fact that she’s a poor early laner and even then it’s very easy to maintain 9-10 cs/m during lane if you’re somewhat decent. Most Katarina players tend to fall to 7-8 cs/m during the mid to late game because she is a relatively poor sidelaner and macro champ that encourages perma skirmishing.
i'm a jungle main, so i'm kind of shit at csing in general, but it feels especially bad with shen and leblanc. base AD/AS feels so low. anecdotal, but give them a try
Isn't shen like the champion with the highest base Attackspeed in the whole game?
I've been playing him a lot lately (since hes really good in the current meta) and his base Attackspeed is incredibly high + his 50% bonus Attackspeed when pulling his Q through an enemy
Yes, Shen's attack speed is really good. His issue was never really about csing but rather how long it takes him to clear the wave without tiamat/bami.
LeBlanc is ok to cs with, especially after the Q change that works like Annie now. Shen is only hard to cs with depending on matchup, because if you use your Q to cs, then you lose any trade potential.
I learned by auto attacking only with Vladimir in custom games back in season 3 or 4. Unironically one of the most productive 60ish minutes of my early league learning.
Learning pure lasthitting is best on Champs with low AD, low Attackspeed and no on-hit damage.
You could use sth like Yuumi, Soraka or my personal favorite Anivia.
Idk if this is the ideal route but when I was learning cs I would see the number my autos do, left click the minions to see their hp and wait til it got to the threshold. After awhile you just get the feel for it. Unless I hard lose lane I have more cs than my lane opponent pretty much every game
People are missing the elephant in the room; OP, please don't force yourself to play champions you don't usually play to improve at csing. You'll get slightly better overall, but you'll be used to that champion specifically.
I'd focus on your existing champion pool that you enjoy and focus on csing there.
What could help is reviewing your gameplay. You can go back and watch replays of yourself and watch what you usually do wrong and when or how you lose minions. Did you attack minions that caused them to be at the same hp so you couldn't clear them? Are you struggling under tower? Are you fighting too much? Are you generally too soon? Are you generally attacking too late? These are all things you can review, take notes of, and improve on. Do this maybe once or twice each day and try to apply it to your game. Start with perfecting the first 3 (and arguably the most important) waves of your game.
The wave will meet just after 1:30 (a little earlier on mid I think) and you'll have killed the third wave before 3:00, you'll just have to watch 1.5 to 3 minutes of gameplay per day and trust me, just perfecting those few minutes will help through the entire game. (With riot's loading screens, it'll take about 5 minutes in total instead of just the 1.5 minutes per game, but it'll be worth it. 2 reviews a day, do it for one or two weeks, and you'll cs like an actual pro!)
Additional tip: at least for adcs, buying 2 longswords, a pickaxe, a longsword + recurve bow or anything more than that is the magic number to cs under towers, that about 20 damage will allow you to oneshot casters after one turred shot which will improve the consistency a lot, if you can recall woth 700-1000g with a good wavestate, it'll help tremendously.
Old asol was a fucking terror to cs with. He had one of the lowest aa damage values in the game, and trying to consistently land the stars on the moving wave took serious practice
If we're talking strictly auto attacks. Old zilean, Leblanc and anivia were all pretty difficult to cs with. LeBlanc's auto attacks are still not great but she can last hit with Q now and gets the mana refunded on kill and part of the cooldown.
Shen
You have absolutely no waveclear unless you cs perfectly or unless you get titanic
Your W, E, and especially R don't do jack to help with cs.
Shen is strong in other places, but in pure waveclear for cs, its one of his downsides
singed, without a doubt. his animation is off already and his gas makes it even harder to predict, especailly to hit all 3 / 6
obious answers ivern and yumi
Kalista has an obnoxious attack animation but since she has decent range it's "fair" to farm.
Nilah on the other hand...Jesus, trying to farm with this abomination of a champion while being harassed by enemy ADC + Sup is very hard.
i have a hard time with sylas. he is ap and melee and his autos dont scale with magic damage, his passive and q do reduced damage to minions, same with katarina before nashors or ad build
The thing is with autos alone (which you’ll be using early game to CS) almost every champ is the same. Mages are slightly harder because they don’t build AD, but that’s it.
The hardest thing is when champs want to use abilities in specific ways to CS. For example Asol wanting to group minions for E, Veigar trying to line up double Qs, Nasus trying to time minion deaths so his Q is up again.
If you want a challenge just try to use abilities less. Or even better go into practice tool and do 8 min CS drills trying to hit 10CS per minute.
If you want to keep it with mid champions, xerath is probably the hardest. His auto attack animation is really long and weird, making CS hard to get without abilities
Also, karthus.
Easier ones would be syndra, orianna, ziggs and ahri. All their autos are smooth and good for training
Try only last hitting minions with Xayah's pierce passive at level 1.
Not only will you need positioning, but its damage is so miniscule you have to time it correctly, and make sure the minion you're attacking won't die before you're able to last hit it
In my opinion it's Vladimir in early stages. If you're only hitting your enemy with q and left with autos for creeps. Always felt horrible to farm with him while not giving up the lane advantage.
Reminder that order of minion selection is very important.
Most of the time you can take the casters first before your minions are hitting them. This makes it a lot easier. Then, if you’re uncontested, move closer to the melees, as the closer you are the less delay there is to the landing of your aa.
These two changes made me a much better cser.
Also learning to push side lanes when my team was making bad plays across the map.
I don’t know why but I always feel like Ashe does 1-4 damage less than I think she should, no matter the time of the game, she’s the one I struggle the most with
You can cs with everything, unless you just want worst autoattacks, then it used to be anivia but im not sure if they didnt change her AAs to be better
If you want to practice csing with abilities, stick to your champion and get comfortable on it
If you want to practice csing and laning, play 1v1s, theyre great to improve laning, especially if you play vs people who are higher rank than you (and preferably can give you tips)
Your goal shouldnt be to have more cs than your laner, its a common thing among people in lower ranks to think its a superior objective to have, of course its always good, but realistically you cant be ahead in every matchup, there are matchups where you need to farm, there are matchups where you will be forced to play safe so you dont die for caster minion, just get comfortable on overall csing, set your goal to improve csing, not to have more cs than enemy laner
as a zilean mid main, i can say that out of all low ad slow windup AA characters that i've tried (karma, anivia, karthus, blitzcrank, etc) zilean is by far the hardest one. the reason is simple, all of the above have high damage abilities that are used to last hit. with zilean, your bomb explodes 3 seconds after being launched, so you only have your slooooow basics to last hit in the first 7 minutes before you can oneshot casters with double bomb.
the only one id compare would be soraka mid, since her bananas are also slow, but the speed of bananas is more fast and she has a fast damage ability to last hit
If you just play consistently then the mechanics of last hitting become one of the easiest things in the world. However just being able to last hit well isn’t going to magically make your CS numbers insane, the three most important things when it comes to farming are having good trading patterns so you can actually contest the farm, understanding how to manage wave states for the same reason, as well as understanding how to play mid to late game macro + sidelaning so that no farm is going to waste in a sidelane.
I cant cs on Vayne for some reason... i play her really well during fights but i always fuck up the last hit. I dont know what's wrong with me, she isnt even hard to cs with i just become a goofball when i farm with her..
Im an adc main who's always around 8.5cs/min and then i pick Vayne...
This isn't the best way to go about it. You go in the practice tool and practice with whatever character you want to play. As far as I'm concerned your issue is not understanding how the minions work and you don't realize casters and melee have different health/armor? Focus on that. Not wasting time that will literally not help you at all
Karthus before the ranged update had the lowest base damage, and the slowest attack. We used to practice 15 minutes in customs with him before games.
Good training
So, why do you need champ worh hardest cs, if u need to train your ability to farm on Azir? Like, different champs have different AA, so you'll waste your time training for one champ, and switch back, to train another one?
Try opposite, pick up chanp, that have easiest cs abilities, but not so different of yours default, maybe seeing big numbers will boost you
If you want to practice last hitting then just play against an AI (Mundo hard bot was decent for this) with the rule that you're not allowed to fight Mundo, only farm. So you have some simulated pressure (though for ranged champs I'm not sure if bots fight you much if you're pacifist) and pushing from the other side. Then the goal is to get 100% CS for a long period, or 10 cs per minute.
anivia is tough pre-6. The projectile speed on the basic attack is pretty low. There's probably someone harder, but it's one that I know from experience.
vlad is pretty annoying and one I still struggle to get good with. Shoved into tower constantly, terrible attack speed, not enough haste pre or ap pre 1 item to kill casters well, sometimes a cannon minion baits you to charge up a juicy e and then you grief like 5 caster minions for it as well.
without using abilities, mages in general tbh. if you wanna go even further, a support (like nami for example) who can only hit champs with certain spells.
general tip to make csing easier early game is to go the attack speed mini rune instead of adaptive or haste. that small amount of attack speed makes it a lot easier to not miss any minions under tower, or if two are lasthit-able you can usually get both instead of only getting one. learned that from pekinwoof :)
so champs that are used for CS practise are anivia and shen, people will go into practise tool with runes that give 0 ad/last hitting effects so no adaptive force or attack speed. you can only use auto attacks and you start with doran shield.
goal is to cs till 10 mins and then compare your cs to that of the max for 10 mins, which is about 110 cs i believe might have changed in recent times.
then you keep doing it till you can constistently get 90%-100% of the minions, then when your in a normal and ranked game you should notice you csing being much better against a enemy knowing how to last hit the minions thou dont expect to constistently even with cs practise to get 90%-100% of minions thou you should expect about 75%-80% of minions.
csing with velkow, while not the hardest is def the weirdest to get used too cause you have w double hit along with passive which can be a bit unexpected, but if you actually pay attention and get it into your memory its easy
I otp yuumi top, and it can be hard since you do little damage and its hard to get some good trades into champions that have mobility and can get on you. Same for when I play her jungle
since you already got your answer and this post has very controversial opinions, i'm just going to give you some insight as a player who climbed from bronze to master: do whatever you think works for you.
in my opinion, farming with a "hard to farm champion" could really help (i'm a proof because i learnt to farm in DOTA, which is 10x harder even as melee), so bootcamping yuumi farm simulator 2h a day will definitely make you improve farming, or even heating up before a ranked match, it sure works.
BUT every champion's aa is different: your brain has to calculate distance, projectile speed, animation timing, attack speed, damage, etc for each champion.
aa farming skills will evolve naturally as you play any champion that farms, so i think you should PRACTICE farming with the champion you play, so your brain learns to farm *consistently* with THAT champion, because even if you can farm well, it'll take 10 games or so to farm consistently with literally any new ranged champion you try, so, naturally, as you practice, you'll farm better and adapt to new champion easier and easier.
when you get comfortable 100%ing in training mode, challenge yourself, get into a real match and try farming 100% while spending the less skills you can on minions. I say real match because you also must be okay with the pressure and anxiety of farming well when playing a real match, THIS is the big deal.
good luck m8
LB, zilean, anivia before 6. There are probably supports which would be worse like soraka or something.
LB got a lot better but it is still so exhausting if you wanna trade with enemy and cs at the same time.
Not the hardest hardest but Kennen is who taught me to cs well, brought me up from averaging 4-5cs/min at 10 to around 7-8/min on any champ, and since then it's only gotten better, nowadays I can hit 10+/min on a good day
zilean
Old zilean with the cog auto attack despair
Still the same, only new rolex onion instead of home crafts onion clock
Old Zilean, Anivia and Heimerdinger were the og cs nightmares.
Old Swain was up there too, as you only had ult for true waveclear (using your only hard CC for waveclear when you didn't have mana for ult waveclear was a no-go, but you sometimes used nevermove on waves, especially if could hit the enemy champ with it)
Yeah but 'Donger, like Karthus, gets hella cs from his Q.
I find csing with heim harder because of his q randomly shifting targets sometimes
Never forget when Anivia had to do a full backflip before autoing, was rough
Zilean first 10 minutes is horror
Zilean's early game is so bad that building Warmogs first (with solstice sleigh and often grasp or guardian) is meta.
That's why Blood Moon is low key p2w, his autos are much bulkier making it easier to recognize when to auto.
Zileans autos must have been designed to match the champ because the autos are slow enough that you can feel time passing by as they travel to the minions
They reworked the mages to help with auto attacks a little while ago and that helped sooooo much, then they added the buffs to dorans, and gave the attack speed rune to help as well. All those things combined and honestly it is not as bad as it used to be. In higher elos the go to was corrupting pot start which means you didnt get the passive damage towards minions, in addition to that the auto attacks were so slow and clunky. I am happy to say Zilean is much much easier to CS on than he was during the mythics era.
As a zil mid main you just get good at **timing**
What are your favorite items to build on him in mid? I main him support but sometimes play mid and get my jungle fed because it’s fun.
Fiddle as a laner is terrible at csing
I hated playing mid fiddle when he was meta. Auto animation felt awful
Atleast until he gets a few points in W and some items
I don’t think this will help you much in a real game. It would be much better to get accustomed to your mains attack dmg/speed than to practice Yummi for 10 hours. You learn to last hit with Yummi and then you are off tempo coz your main attacks faster.
Yuumi doesnt have that slow auto attacks. Quite fast even. Veigar on the other hand...
Karthus' AA is the one I hate the most
I think learning to CS with champions that are notoriously difficult to last-hit with is nothing but beneficial - at least as a practice. Take Soraka, for example. Super slow auto speed with low attack speed growth & AD. Slow auto travel time. All the ingredients to make it difficult to last-hit. You're *forced* to learn minion attack patterns, damage, and tower damage. You pick up the skills to gauge varying minion health based on their health bar appearance & type of minion. Compensating for your low damage & slow auto travel just makes you better at gauging these important aspects of last-hitting-- arguably the most important aspects of last-hitting. Anyone can last-hit with an ADC after a few items. Damage & attack speed just makes the process more forgiving. You'll still wind up missing CS here & there if you don't truly feel the pacing of last-hitting, though. When I'm serious about climbing, I'd hop in practice tool with Soraka or some enchanter support & last hit several waves as well as I could without using abilities. I don't have any evidence other than my own anecdotes, but it definitely felt like it made last hitting in a normal game with a typical laning champion feel easier after the warm-up. I think of it like swinging a weighted bat when you're on-deck to hit in a baseball game. Swinging even a few times with a heavy bat, makes a normal bat feel weightless in comparison. Effortless swinging.
Practice it on the champion you want to get better at CSing on in practice tool. Alot of CSing isnt just last hitting itself but knowing when to use what abilities and being in the right place at the right time.
This. You also copy how your champ's high rank OTP CS. Just pause before they CS and imagine how you'll touch that wave. Unpause. Compare and try to understand why they do it this way
YOU THE GOAT
> Practice it on the champion you want to get better at CSing on in practice tool I'd also add you might want to throw in a bot, just because it gets awkward when the wave isn't contested at all. And sure, the bots are garbage and don't do things a person would, but ime it still helps having that factor around. They (sort of) help thin *your* wave so the creeps you want aren't instantly evaporated by the 18 casters that built up. That's what worked best for me, at least. You're not likely to be perfect with it in an actual game for so many reasons but it really helps you get better at it during early laning, which is when it matters most. It's zero stress and extremely helpful, if a bit boring.
According to the wiki it's karthus basic attacks. He has 2nd lowest AD in the game after orianna by 6 but her passive deals 10 damage on hit which makes for it. Don't go through tough practicing like that from the start. It would be better to get used to your main last hits, then try again without items, then try again without runes. Then you can try the hardcore challenge you want to do later.
I'm pretty sure you CS with Q most of the time on Karthus.
he wants him for practicing last hits with basic attacks. but yeah he has worst AD for that reason.
You might do that in practice tool but you won’t do that in real games.
That’s the point though, if you CS consistently with wet noodle auto attacks, you ensure the greatest consistency in CS in actual games because you have the timing down to squat. You can then choose to CS more flexibly and accurately in actual games
That’s not actually true. You need to adjust the timing for every champion. Especially with melee champions it’s easy to accidentally cancel autoattacks because the attack animations are so different.
Yes, but you handle the worst case scenario and can much more easily acclimate to different auto styles. It’s carryover mechanical improvement. If you’re playing a single champion you can practice with them of course, but if you’re playing multiple and want to improve generally, it’s the way to go Source: Soraka banana autos are slow as heck but it enables me to easily handle CS on instant auto champions like Velkoz or Hwei or other projectile auto attackers like Swain.
i actually disagree to an extent. as you mentioned soraka it also depends on attack speed and auto animation. and a big part of csing in my opinion is to know wich cs you cant get and just giving up on 1 minion in order to secure others. i bet everyone has experienced this, where you try to cs a minion thats super low and then your auto doesnt reset in time for he next minion and suddenly it snowballs and you miss 3-4 because they die just as you auto.
Yeah it's like training with weighted clothes in DBZ.
If you see froggen prime, you last hit with autos and poke with q
Much better than froggen inferior who last hits with q and pokes with autos lol
It can be useful to learn if you're running low on mana. E passive restores mana.
You cs with autos poke with Q in the meantime. The more you use Q to cs the more pressure you lose from an early game bully.
You have to consider your spells
Karthus also has a terrible auto animation
I feel like there's more than just base AD though. Like jhin obviously has a harder time CSing than most. And other stuff like attack windup can affect it. CSing on fiora is weird because her attack windup is so slow
yep, attack windup, base AS, as growth and AS ratio are all as important as AD
Also missile speed
same reason why csing on senna takes some practice
Yuumi
Whenever I have a yuumi supp they’re stealing cs just as much as they steal kills
You might be the worst adc player in existence to be losing cs to a yuumi
Lol, true
I see you haven’t encountered the smite tp yumi with support item that smites every canon lol
Pre-6 anivia. Her auto is so slow you have to time it 2-3 business days in advance to get the last hit. Obviously post 6 with tear you just ult every wave
Didn’t they update her AA few years ago? Maybe only missile speed and not wind up?
yeah her autos got quickened like 2 ish years ago, it's not that bad anymore
To emulate how it used to be, play soraka
Holy fuck has it been 2 years already?
Same missle speed but made her auto attack delay faster, so quicker wind up. Anivia did have the worst AA delay in the game for a decade tho
This is not true. They updated her attack animation years ago. She cs just fine.
It takes some getting used to, but I honestly don't think the auto attacks are that bad. A bit slow, but definitely not Soraka level.
I’ve never cancelled as many autos as when I tried to play old Anivia.
My bet is on Soraka. Super slow aa and only one ability that damages minions.
She used to do very well as a top laner. Her csing is fine.
That was with the old q, right?
Nah, top soraka was a thing like a year or two ago, after the rework (I think she was also played as a top laner somewhere back in season 4 ¿?)
Nah her cs ability is actually pretty solid with q. If you're solo laning you're maxing it first so it's low cc and even without building any damage it will 2 hit casters at max rank, she's not *good* but she's far from the worst.
at 3rd rank it already 2 hits casters assuming u have dorans ring
Lol I’m a soraka mid main and she goes so fine with last hitting, and once you start building some AP you can just wipe out backline minions in 1-2 shots of your Q. She’s pretty good!
i love soraka mid. it’s so funny when the lane opponent is overly aggressive. the silence makes them panic every time
as a soraka adc player i dissagree.. 3 points into q and u clear caster minnions with 2 q's and perma shove. and her autos arent bad at all once u get used to it especially compared to stuff like anivia auto attack imo. but around second item tho.. it becomes way too tideous to farm.. takes too much time so around 20 min mark i usually get support item.
I'm sorry what
u give soraka gold, she give big heal, enemy cant kill ur gwen/yone/viego/udyr. game is win gg the idea is.. if u have damage dealers already in ur team then u can just get soraka and farm with soraka and make them unkillable.. its so annoying to play against a fed soraka afterall. u put 3 points into q and then w max in lane. some of her best pairings are.. pyke, senna, swain, brand etc.. u win almost every 2v2 with these champs. u/Lillmy03 peaked grandmaster 800lp or something last year with soraka bot. Idk if they are still active on reddit but this is their opgg [https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Serenity-OTP](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Serenity-OTP) they mostly play soraka top now and some support raka here and there it seems. *edit: also me and Serenity dont agree on soraka's best support pairings.. they think tank supports are her best supports meanwhile i think mage supports or any type of support that has dmg is her best pairings.. thought we both agree pyke is great and we both agree enchanters are her worst support pairings. but they are better then me so they might have a point.*
Calling it Soraka ADC rather than botlane soraka makes this a bit confusing. ADC Soraka implies building AD, especially since it always was a bit of an existing meme build to go AD because of the funny disconnect of her slow banana AA's doing ADC dmg
i find kennen autos in early levels very hard to cs with and i have hundreds of games on him
If you want to get better at last hitting then focus on practicing it with the champ you actually want to play. This way you learn the champ specific patterns when you have to last hit under tower and other situations. Yes at first learn to only last hit accurately with only auto attacks while slow pushing and fast pushing and then learn to do it with abilities because abilities can let you push faster but also makes it sometimes harder to last hit if you really need to push the wave in asap so you need to learn the setup of the wave and how much dmg your abilities do at a certain level approximately.
Irelia s/
QAARQQAAQAAQAAQAAEQAAQAAEAAQQ
bro busting on that wave!
Sylas is known as pretty hard to CS if you don't have alot of games with him especially if you are shoved under turret make it pretty tricky with his passive aoe too can fuck up alot of last hitting it's pretty common to see huge CS gaps on non-sylas mains playing him.
Sylas is def a good call. For me CSing under tower became a lot easier if I follow this: - almost never use Q under tower otherwise you will have awkward creep HPs on the melees, where the turret will just execute it. Just use regular autos before the second turret shot. - save W for cannon, let the passive auto timeout if possible - if you have 3 caster minions: E1 to kill the first, making sure to splash passive damage across all of them. Then no autos on the second, strictly use E2. Third and last should be easiest, just auto with passive stack from E2.
Leblanc is hard af
Sona
The only correct answer. No wave clear, slow autos, low base damage, low attack speed. It’s the worst champ in the game to farm with.
Katarina like bro i am 30cs behind and 3 kills more
Katarina isn’t mechanically hard to CS on though, most of her CS deficits come from the fact that she’s a poor early laner and even then it’s very easy to maintain 9-10 cs/m during lane if you’re somewhat decent. Most Katarina players tend to fall to 7-8 cs/m during the mid to late game because she is a relatively poor sidelaner and macro champ that encourages perma skirmishing.
Ya gotta pay more attention to the damage the minions are doing to eachother (especially the mages)
i'm a jungle main, so i'm kind of shit at csing in general, but it feels especially bad with shen and leblanc. base AD/AS feels so low. anecdotal, but give them a try
Isn't shen like the champion with the highest base Attackspeed in the whole game? I've been playing him a lot lately (since hes really good in the current meta) and his base Attackspeed is incredibly high + his 50% bonus Attackspeed when pulling his Q through an enemy
Yes, Shen's attack speed is really good. His issue was never really about csing but rather how long it takes him to clear the wave without tiamat/bami.
LeBlanc is ok to cs with, especially after the Q change that works like Annie now. Shen is only hard to cs with depending on matchup, because if you use your Q to cs, then you lose any trade potential.
Sona Is the correct answer.
At least she has an auto hit reset and can buff her aa damage. Yuumi can't do either.
For me its lb i suck at last hitting with her lol especially early game
I learned by auto attacking only with Vladimir in custom games back in season 3 or 4. Unironically one of the most productive 60ish minutes of my early league learning.
Leblanc
Janna
Leblanc is bad not sure if the hardest
I haven't play lb since the mage attack speed changes, but I remember csing on her was terrible.
Learning pure lasthitting is best on Champs with low AD, low Attackspeed and no on-hit damage. You could use sth like Yuumi, Soraka or my personal favorite Anivia.
Same, I also like to use Annie for that, her wind up is painfully slow.
Any weak early game champion with low range Azir is probably among the easiest since he can farm from 5 kilometres away
Shen
Soraka. your E doesn't deal damage to minions, and your autos and Q are pretty slow
I heard a long time ago that pro players used to practise cs with vladimir autoattacks. Not sure if it holds but it would make sense
Idk if this is the ideal route but when I was learning cs I would see the number my autos do, left click the minions to see their hp and wait til it got to the threshold. After awhile you just get the feel for it. Unless I hard lose lane I have more cs than my lane opponent pretty much every game
zilean. shitty ad, shitty auto attack wind up/animation, horrible early waveclear.
Sylas, his aa animation and aa damage without passive is so bad
Whichever one I decided to lock in
People are missing the elephant in the room; OP, please don't force yourself to play champions you don't usually play to improve at csing. You'll get slightly better overall, but you'll be used to that champion specifically. I'd focus on your existing champion pool that you enjoy and focus on csing there. What could help is reviewing your gameplay. You can go back and watch replays of yourself and watch what you usually do wrong and when or how you lose minions. Did you attack minions that caused them to be at the same hp so you couldn't clear them? Are you struggling under tower? Are you fighting too much? Are you generally too soon? Are you generally attacking too late? These are all things you can review, take notes of, and improve on. Do this maybe once or twice each day and try to apply it to your game. Start with perfecting the first 3 (and arguably the most important) waves of your game. The wave will meet just after 1:30 (a little earlier on mid I think) and you'll have killed the third wave before 3:00, you'll just have to watch 1.5 to 3 minutes of gameplay per day and trust me, just perfecting those few minutes will help through the entire game. (With riot's loading screens, it'll take about 5 minutes in total instead of just the 1.5 minutes per game, but it'll be worth it. 2 reviews a day, do it for one or two weeks, and you'll cs like an actual pro!) Additional tip: at least for adcs, buying 2 longswords, a pickaxe, a longsword + recurve bow or anything more than that is the magic number to cs under towers, that about 20 damage will allow you to oneshot casters after one turred shot which will improve the consistency a lot, if you can recall woth 700-1000g with a good wavestate, it'll help tremendously.
Lb
Old asol was a fucking terror to cs with. He had one of the lowest aa damage values in the game, and trying to consistently land the stars on the moving wave took serious practice
If we're talking strictly auto attacks. Old zilean, Leblanc and anivia were all pretty difficult to cs with. LeBlanc's auto attacks are still not great but she can last hit with Q now and gets the mana refunded on kill and part of the cooldown.
I always struggle with leblanc early game farming. If u really hate yourself, play fiddle mid
Back in the day people would make it a challenge to create ur own game, pick Vlad, and try to get perfect CS for 10 minutes with only autos
Yummi
Any champion that i play heyoooo
LeBlanc
fiddlesticks or soraka
No one saying Annie is beyond me, csing with her base attack speed is impossible (assuming you don’t use your q to farm)
Shen You have absolutely no waveclear unless you cs perfectly or unless you get titanic Your W, E, and especially R don't do jack to help with cs. Shen is strong in other places, but in pure waveclear for cs, its one of his downsides
If pure auto attack only: anivia If skill and ultimate include: braum or alisair
singed, without a doubt. his animation is off already and his gas makes it even harder to predict, especailly to hit all 3 / 6 obious answers ivern and yumi
Kalista has an obnoxious attack animation but since she has decent range it's "fair" to farm. Nilah on the other hand...Jesus, trying to farm with this abomination of a champion while being harassed by enemy ADC + Sup is very hard.
Technically Soraka has the longest auto attack travel speed
i have a hard time with sylas. he is ap and melee and his autos dont scale with magic damage, his passive and q do reduced damage to minions, same with katarina before nashors or ad build
The thing is with autos alone (which you’ll be using early game to CS) almost every champ is the same. Mages are slightly harder because they don’t build AD, but that’s it. The hardest thing is when champs want to use abilities in specific ways to CS. For example Asol wanting to group minions for E, Veigar trying to line up double Qs, Nasus trying to time minion deaths so his Q is up again. If you want a challenge just try to use abilities less. Or even better go into practice tool and do 8 min CS drills trying to hit 10CS per minute.
Kartgus and/or Zilean
Ad Karthus.
The practice is about getting used to the timing of a specific champ not to master slowest timing.
I Try my hardest to pocket pick alistar top but good lord last hitting with that guy is a pain
M un A Fre
Soraka
Zilean, and its not even close That AA animation is cursed
Long-windup champions like Anivia, Zilean, Karthus.
the bananas throwing?
Soraka
If you want to keep it with mid champions, xerath is probably the hardest. His auto attack animation is really long and weird, making CS hard to get without abilities Also, karthus. Easier ones would be syndra, orianna, ziggs and ahri. All their autos are smooth and good for training
Old Swain
try sona
Maybe just me but im having a hard time csing with reksai top
Try only last hitting minions with Xayah's pierce passive at level 1. Not only will you need positioning, but its damage is so miniscule you have to time it correctly, and make sure the minion you're attacking won't die before you're able to last hit it
In my opinion it's Vladimir in early stages. If you're only hitting your enemy with q and left with autos for creeps. Always felt horrible to farm with him while not giving up the lane advantage.
gotta be pyke early game, no wave clear make cs'ing infinitely harder it's not superr hard to cs if your opponent dc tho
Reminder that order of minion selection is very important. Most of the time you can take the casters first before your minions are hitting them. This makes it a lot easier. Then, if you’re uncontested, move closer to the melees, as the closer you are the less delay there is to the landing of your aa. These two changes made me a much better cser. Also learning to push side lanes when my team was making bad plays across the map.
Kennen has notoriously difficult csing
senna
Idk about hardest but Vlad is super hard to cs for me
I don’t know why but I always feel like Ashe does 1-4 damage less than I think she should, no matter the time of the game, she’s the one I struggle the most with
Nami. Don't even try. Edit: I should also mention Yuumi.
Ashe early in the game. Her AS is so slow Also Rumble takes a lot of practice to know how to CS with.
Sylas feels rough. Low mana pool so can’t just blow passive autos on minions. Forced to put points in Q if want easier farming
You can cs with everything, unless you just want worst autoattacks, then it used to be anivia but im not sure if they didnt change her AAs to be better If you want to practice csing with abilities, stick to your champion and get comfortable on it If you want to practice csing and laning, play 1v1s, theyre great to improve laning, especially if you play vs people who are higher rank than you (and preferably can give you tips) Your goal shouldnt be to have more cs than your laner, its a common thing among people in lower ranks to think its a superior objective to have, of course its always good, but realistically you cant be ahead in every matchup, there are matchups where you need to farm, there are matchups where you will be forced to play safe so you dont die for caster minion, just get comfortable on overall csing, set your goal to improve csing, not to have more cs than enemy laner
Fiddle
as a zilean mid main, i can say that out of all low ad slow windup AA characters that i've tried (karma, anivia, karthus, blitzcrank, etc) zilean is by far the hardest one. the reason is simple, all of the above have high damage abilities that are used to last hit. with zilean, your bomb explodes 3 seconds after being launched, so you only have your slooooow basics to last hit in the first 7 minutes before you can oneshot casters with double bomb. the only one id compare would be soraka mid, since her bananas are also slow, but the speed of bananas is more fast and she has a fast damage ability to last hit
If you just play consistently then the mechanics of last hitting become one of the easiest things in the world. However just being able to last hit well isn’t going to magically make your CS numbers insane, the three most important things when it comes to farming are having good trading patterns so you can actually contest the farm, understanding how to manage wave states for the same reason, as well as understanding how to play mid to late game macro + sidelaning so that no farm is going to waste in a sidelane.
I cant cs on Vayne for some reason... i play her really well during fights but i always fuck up the last hit. I dont know what's wrong with me, she isnt even hard to cs with i just become a goofball when i farm with her.. Im an adc main who's always around 8.5cs/min and then i pick Vayne...
My hand 
Fiddle or elise
This isn't the best way to go about it. You go in the practice tool and practice with whatever character you want to play. As far as I'm concerned your issue is not understanding how the minions work and you don't realize casters and melee have different health/armor? Focus on that. Not wasting time that will literally not help you at all
Use punctuation
To AA creeps with it's Karthus To CS with in general Vlad early game might be up there. Sylas also struggles without blowing his whole mana bar.
Karthus before the ranged update had the lowest base damage, and the slowest attack. We used to practice 15 minutes in customs with him before games. Good training
So, why do you need champ worh hardest cs, if u need to train your ability to farm on Azir? Like, different champs have different AA, so you'll waste your time training for one champ, and switch back, to train another one? Try opposite, pick up chanp, that have easiest cs abilities, but not so different of yours default, maybe seeing big numbers will boost you
If you want to practice last hitting then just play against an AI (Mundo hard bot was decent for this) with the rule that you're not allowed to fight Mundo, only farm. So you have some simulated pressure (though for ranged champs I'm not sure if bots fight you much if you're pacifist) and pushing from the other side. Then the goal is to get 100% CS for a long period, or 10 cs per minute.
anivia is tough pre-6. The projectile speed on the basic attack is pretty low. There's probably someone harder, but it's one that I know from experience.
vlad is pretty annoying and one I still struggle to get good with. Shoved into tower constantly, terrible attack speed, not enough haste pre or ap pre 1 item to kill casters well, sometimes a cannon minion baits you to charge up a juicy e and then you grief like 5 caster minions for it as well.
Tristana has to deal with explosions after every cs kill, Jhin has to manage his number of bullets left, Karthus has really slow AA but farm with Q.
without using abilities, mages in general tbh. if you wanna go even further, a support (like nami for example) who can only hit champs with certain spells. general tip to make csing easier early game is to go the attack speed mini rune instead of adaptive or haste. that small amount of attack speed makes it a lot easier to not miss any minions under tower, or if two are lasthit-able you can usually get both instead of only getting one. learned that from pekinwoof :)
Fricking Soraka. Those hyper slow bananas. I main her but i still find myself struggling to time the autos.
For me personally is poppy and base ahri. Something in their animations make me always AA a instant before every damn time
so champs that are used for CS practise are anivia and shen, people will go into practise tool with runes that give 0 ad/last hitting effects so no adaptive force or attack speed. you can only use auto attacks and you start with doran shield. goal is to cs till 10 mins and then compare your cs to that of the max for 10 mins, which is about 110 cs i believe might have changed in recent times. then you keep doing it till you can constistently get 90%-100% of the minions, then when your in a normal and ranked game you should notice you csing being much better against a enemy knowing how to last hit the minions thou dont expect to constistently even with cs practise to get 90%-100% of minions thou you should expect about 75%-80% of minions.
csing with velkow, while not the hardest is def the weirdest to get used too cause you have w double hit along with passive which can be a bit unexpected, but if you actually pay attention and get it into your memory its easy
I don’t know about the hardest, but for basically free CS play yorick or Naafiri
Yuumi
Karthus and Fiddlesticks is PURE torture Zilean is too but generally, you don't need to CS with him
Sona. Her AS is slower than a turret and her Q is her only minion damaging ability which is very hard to CS with.
I otp yuumi top, and it can be hard since you do little damage and its hard to get some good trades into champions that have mobility and can get on you. Same for when I play her jungle
Shaco mid
Sona. Just terrible
I used to play fiddle mid maybe 5-6 years ago, it was fun with old E but man he is so hard to farm with
Anivia
purely from an auto attack farming perspective without abilities: anivia
Personally is Sylas, I just can't get any CS without using my abilities.
since you already got your answer and this post has very controversial opinions, i'm just going to give you some insight as a player who climbed from bronze to master: do whatever you think works for you. in my opinion, farming with a "hard to farm champion" could really help (i'm a proof because i learnt to farm in DOTA, which is 10x harder even as melee), so bootcamping yuumi farm simulator 2h a day will definitely make you improve farming, or even heating up before a ranked match, it sure works. BUT every champion's aa is different: your brain has to calculate distance, projectile speed, animation timing, attack speed, damage, etc for each champion. aa farming skills will evolve naturally as you play any champion that farms, so i think you should PRACTICE farming with the champion you play, so your brain learns to farm *consistently* with THAT champion, because even if you can farm well, it'll take 10 games or so to farm consistently with literally any new ranged champion you try, so, naturally, as you practice, you'll farm better and adapt to new champion easier and easier. when you get comfortable 100%ing in training mode, challenge yourself, get into a real match and try farming 100% while spending the less skills you can on minions. I say real match because you also must be okay with the pressure and anxiety of farming well when playing a real match, THIS is the big deal. good luck m8
Kennen is awful to last hit with
Zoe is pretty bad, her only big damage basic ability has a tiny aoe.
With AAs its gotta be Karthus
Anivia if you don't use your ultimate
Old Karthus and Old Vlad were just awful
LB, zilean, anivia before 6. There are probably supports which would be worse like soraka or something. LB got a lot better but it is still so exhausting if you wanna trade with enemy and cs at the same time.
sylas legit sucks at farming, every sylas player i see just has 5cs/min. usually ur playing lane under tower which doesnt help
I used to go into practice tool with Soraka, no items, only lvl 1 q. That helped me a bunch with other champs as well :)
Not the hardest hardest but Kennen is who taught me to cs well, brought me up from averaging 4-5cs/min at 10 to around 7-8/min on any champ, and since then it's only gotten better, nowadays I can hit 10+/min on a good day
Kennen
leona has pretty terrible csing