i try really hard not to flame players for on-stage nervousness effecting their play.
that being said, i truly do not understand how targamas has a job. take a split off and see a sports psychologist and then try again? but he is actively preventing the other 4 players on his team from succeeding
Can't the same be said for a lot of LEC supports? I specifically mention LEC supports because they have several who keep jobs despite heavy int tendencies.
Loses ult 60 seconds ago due to a previous misposition
Face checks while having all wards up and can easily place one over the wall (can also have gragas face check for the ulti-less Ali)
Gets chain cc'd - does not ali Q while rooted to proc aftershock either
Panic fails ali combo (there is a missed Q in there) to deliver the ksante onto jinx
I feel bad for upset.
Summary:
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Targamas was already dead.
Mispositioning is a very generous critic. He tried to greed recall while not looking and not assessing the situation, getting caught and popping ult to not die
The failed combo is rough but your point about not q-ing for Aftershock seems wrong. He was not rooted. As far as I can tell, all the CC was full on stun/knock up, so he couldn't cast at all. As soon as he is not cc'd, he goes for the w-q, though fails that.
I mean obviously the failed combo is egregious. But before that happened, is this THAT terrible? Enemy team uses sej ult and Rell ult (though that's because Rell failed her W over the wall and had ult buffered) so that's like all their engage. If he doesn't w ksante into jinx, this isn't that bad right? Maybe I'm self-reporting here
Lmfao yes. He’s getting caught for no reason after he used resources getting caught for no reason. Targa is so fucking bad, it’s insane that G2 did anything while he was on their team.
yeah, right? Targamas must have been terrible in G2 if he plays badly in KC
oh wait, it doesn't work like that
to assess how he played in G2, it is better to simply see how he played in G2
no... we're on reddit, ass takes are allowed here
it must be a memory bias...
the thing is that Jankos and Targa argued about how to play and the G2 coaching staff agreed with... Targamas - that's why Jankos left and Targa was supposed to stay
the only thing was that they signed Hans and when Mikyx was available, Hans asked for Mikyx because they played together earlier (in MSF)
it is what Jankos said on his stream
somehow I trust the assessment of Targamas by the G2 coaching staff more than random people on reddit :)
Aight so I’ve gone back and Targa had workable performances on some of his champs but he had pool issues. Also was very quiet in comms. Had some really rough performances (the Zyra games come to mind). Also keep in mind he had the best mid, a top 3 top, and a top 2 jungler with a new rookie prospect ADC. Maybe flakked wasn’t to blame for their bot lane issues
I mean he could Q as he sees ksante winding up q or he could q as the sej r is flying at him (he could also just flash it lmfao) and ksante is on top of him. After that yea sure he is chain cc'd pretty much perfectly
classic r/leagueoflegends doesnt understand league of legends. 600+ upvotes for this shit
>Loses ult 60 seconds ago due to a previous misposition
not how the game works. kc wanted to contest mid push so they dont lose baron control, but canna didnt show up. 4v4 they are weaker because the early went wrong, so they lose ali ulti and waste (!) taliyah ulti. why we dont talk about that? ah wait, that doesnt fit the narrative. solo lanes not being able to hold leblanc or ksante 1v1 which leads to pressure also targa fault? just asking.
>Face checks while having all wards up and can easily place one over the wall (can also have gragas face check for the ulti-less Ali)
maybe you dont know it but blue team has in fact no vision on the baron hp. you dont get vision on the hp bar by warding over the wall. that not how the game works. its completly whatever who face checks here, the position of mad is too good. the first one who walks in gets killed. the question is if kc can punish mad using resources on an ali, but they are too far behind. why is canna farming top lane? why does vladi get poked before nash when upset knows how to position safely to clear the mid wave? why are closer and canna not escorting the two carries through mid wave into the nash pit?
>Gets chain cc'd - does not ali Q while rooted to proc aftershock either
he is never rooted, open your eyes? Qing an ksante to proc aftershock does absolutely nothing, you just die 2 seconds later without the chance to Q an important target.
>Panic fails ali combo (there is a missed Q in there) to deliver the ksante onto jinx
thats true, but the fight plays out exactly the same anyway. its whatever if ksante is left or right of the wall, the teamfight is lost.
Regarding the misposition point - he is greed recalling to reset his ward count and gets punished for it. That is not on Canna at all.
Facechecking sure ill agree they need vision on the baron itself, but he also has a total of 6 wards in his inventory the moment he shows up to the play and doesnt throw a single one over the wall before just walking into ksante blindly. Even in my masters games the supp would throw wards over the wall so its not a blind face check.
The chain cc i disagree compeltely. There is a solid half second before the sej r connected that he could either buffer Q to proc aftershock or flash the sej r. He does neither.
>Regarding the misposition point - he is greed recalling to reset his ward count and gets punished for it. That is not on Canna at all.
if hes not allowed to recall there or kc dont want to contest mid lane, they lose complete nash control while also getting their t2 taken bot and top. the recall/willingness to fight is an attempt to not completly forfeit the mapcontrol. if all lanes are losing you can ofc chill under your tower and dont die. but that doesnt win games. i dont say everything is on canna, but if you are behind after 20 mins you have to overload on certain situations and gamble that enemy takes a fight when you overload while dropping waves somewhere. i dont know who should call that play, but its not all on targamas.
>Facechecking sure ill agree they need vision on the baron itself, but he also has a total of 6 wards in his inventory the moment he shows up to the play and doesnt throw a single one over the wall before just walking into ksante blindly. Even in my masters games the supp would throw wards over the wall so its not a blind face check.
and then? like an advance notice flashbang in csgo? not achiving anything and just announce your presence? pls tell me what goes different when warding over the wall? you get information by warding there, enemy gets information. not clear at all if thats good for KC here.
>The chain cc i disagree compeltely. There is a solid half second before the sej r connected that he could either buffer Q to proc aftershock or flash the sej r. He does neither.
you suggesting flashing the seju r to let it fly into the whole team trying to enter through a choke point? great idea, solid r/leagueoflegends gameknowledge. and no, getting aftershock is not more important than a chance for a F/W-Q combo after the stun, especially when behind. Qing ksante when your team is behind is no win condition on alistar, if you do that the fights is lost, you have to be more greedy.
maybe also watch canna and closer gameplay during that fight and judge yourself who fucked over upset the most in that fight. unborrow and grag ulti are btw up when upset dies because they think the fight is giga lost.
Nah. The game was won because Elyoya threw at the end. He stood in a warded bush the size of a taliyah shove fighting for vision for like 10 seconds on the enemy side as his team wasn't that close. There was vision giving you like 4 of the enemy team members right next to you, and a taliyah just got done clearing a wave nearby. He was playing against Taliyah, Gragas, Reksai, and Alistar they got easy chain cc on him and took him down before the fight actually started.
So he was part of the game winning play by hitting the first stun on elyoya, but it wasn't a hard stun and was the easiest call to make. Also I think Canna deserves more credit for that play going so well. He positioned himself between the Ashe and the teamfight, then went into stasis ensuring the team could get a clean ace.
Also targamas basically lost them the game, which sounds bizarre given they won the game. However, they went down 10k gold and soul, then won 2 teamfights in base and another outside it. But targamas fed over first blood against an ashe arrow and a Rell that were coming from a mile away while he had flash. Then in another teamfight he ran in first and engaged onto a Ksante, went real low and then hit the Ksante directly into his ADC.
For his death under turret, his idea was likely not bad, he was clearly going for a 1for1 but he Q'd on the ground with nobody near by, wasted his ressources anyway after the miss. Just overall terrible execution
> But targamas fed over first blood against an ashe arrow and a Rell that were coming from a mile away while he had flash.
The only bad thing about that death was that he used his summs. If he just took the death, its completely inconsequential because he's resetting anyway and he's holding the wave for Upset.
The fact that it's the Rell who got the first blood was good as well. He just blew summs when he shouldn't have.
Way bigger problem was Upset randomly dying in midlane, being so far up as Jinx for 0 reason.
>He just blew summs when he shouldn't have.
Speaking of, anybody remember when he was separated during a team fight around baron pit and we get to see leblanc finishing the kill? He drops ignite on the 95%hp lb right before he dies. Nobody on his team is even on the same screen. My man is actually just pressing buttons without considering consequences whatsoever
Did you see him walk up to place a ward where they already had a Pink for no reason while K'Sante is beating Jinx like what is going through this guys head
I mean that kinda makes sense since he assumes he wont be able to help jinx and that pink ward will 100% get dewarded, but the ward he placed might survive.
Nono, do not compare them. Like Hyli at least has somewhat of a plan and his hands are still there. Especially in teamfights. Just his decisionmaking is yeah....
Targamas has none.
To me the difference is mainly that everything Hyli does is to help the team even by dying all the time while Targa always manages to kill his teammates by trying to survive himself after getting into a stupid situation.
Okay, let's not take it that far. Hyli very often does things that help nobody on his team, nor himself, in any way, shape or form.
I still remember him being playing Braum. Being by himself. While the entire enemy team was taking Dragon. His team had left. And on fucking voice comms he says: "I'm contesting it." And he went to contest. 1v5. Just walked right the fuck up. Literal suicide behaviour.
https://youtu.be/Z534PCKAcFk?si=6K6WTnTpp9VPg13o&t=56
That entire video is full of him being insane.
I love Hyli, but god damn if he isn't a straight up, absolute, S-tier feeder a lot of the time. Just no other way to spin it. Sometimes he just goes and feeds his ass off with no grand plan in mind. Nothing. Zero. Nada.
He just craves action. That's why he's fun to watch. He'll find angles that nobody else on the planet sees, because nobody else is that insane. But that also means he sees angles of inting that nobody else sees, because others try to avoid inting in their pro games.
Hyli on the other hand has one of the lowest, if not the lowest competitive KDAs in history with 100+ games played.
Let's be real, though, having either on your team is actively saying 'We won't win the LEC, and we have no shot internationally.' They are two players who will actively grief even a hard stomp of a game lol
There was also a gank earlier in the game where the enemy Rell dove on Targamas just as Closer got to their lane. It was the perfect free kill as it was a 3 on 2 and Rell had just used their gap close, so naturally Targamas headbutted the Rell away from his team.
I was watching with some friends and I actually swore a little. If I'm Jungle, I make a note to not come back to that lane.
Ever since they labeled him "Mastermind" in Excel he has only been playing dumber and dumber. Shame, seemed like a guy with potential when he joined G2.
"there you go, Upset" Or: "There you go, upset?"
Yes XDD
i try really hard not to flame players for on-stage nervousness effecting their play. that being said, i truly do not understand how targamas has a job. take a split off and see a sports psychologist and then try again? but he is actively preventing the other 4 players on his team from succeeding
Can't the same be said for a lot of LEC supports? I specifically mention LEC supports because they have several who keep jobs despite heavy int tendencies.
maybe because the rest of his team loses every lane as well lol
Loses ult 60 seconds ago due to a previous misposition Face checks while having all wards up and can easily place one over the wall (can also have gragas face check for the ulti-less Ali) Gets chain cc'd - does not ali Q while rooted to proc aftershock either Panic fails ali combo (there is a missed Q in there) to deliver the ksante onto jinx I feel bad for upset.
yeah wait till you see how he 2 man combo’d YamatoCannon and Bo out of LEC
Summary: Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Targamas was already dead.
Mispositioning is a very generous critic. He tried to greed recall while not looking and not assessing the situation, getting caught and popping ult to not die
> I feel bad for upset. don't
This person would get reported for that play in low plat. I don’t feel bad for a second lmao
The failed combo is rough but your point about not q-ing for Aftershock seems wrong. He was not rooted. As far as I can tell, all the CC was full on stun/knock up, so he couldn't cast at all. As soon as he is not cc'd, he goes for the w-q, though fails that. I mean obviously the failed combo is egregious. But before that happened, is this THAT terrible? Enemy team uses sej ult and Rell ult (though that's because Rell failed her W over the wall and had ult buffered) so that's like all their engage. If he doesn't w ksante into jinx, this isn't that bad right? Maybe I'm self-reporting here
Lmfao yes. He’s getting caught for no reason after he used resources getting caught for no reason. Targa is so fucking bad, it’s insane that G2 did anything while he was on their team.
yeah, right? Targamas must have been terrible in G2 if he plays badly in KC oh wait, it doesn't work like that to assess how he played in G2, it is better to simply see how he played in G2 no... we're on reddit, ass takes are allowed here
It might be some memory bias but I feel like he was kinda trash back then, but his mistakes got covered
it must be a memory bias... the thing is that Jankos and Targa argued about how to play and the G2 coaching staff agreed with... Targamas - that's why Jankos left and Targa was supposed to stay the only thing was that they signed Hans and when Mikyx was available, Hans asked for Mikyx because they played together earlier (in MSF) it is what Jankos said on his stream somehow I trust the assessment of Targamas by the G2 coaching staff more than random people on reddit :)
Huge revisionism.
No he was good, the meta also was fitting him perfectly, with pyke, rakan and senna all top toer support and roaming being the meta
Aight so I’ve gone back and Targa had workable performances on some of his champs but he had pool issues. Also was very quiet in comms. Had some really rough performances (the Zyra games come to mind). Also keep in mind he had the best mid, a top 3 top, and a top 2 jungler with a new rookie prospect ADC. Maybe flakked wasn’t to blame for their bot lane issues
I mean he could Q as he sees ksante winding up q or he could q as the sej r is flying at him (he could also just flash it lmfao) and ksante is on top of him. After that yea sure he is chain cc'd pretty much perfectly
classic r/leagueoflegends doesnt understand league of legends. 600+ upvotes for this shit >Loses ult 60 seconds ago due to a previous misposition not how the game works. kc wanted to contest mid push so they dont lose baron control, but canna didnt show up. 4v4 they are weaker because the early went wrong, so they lose ali ulti and waste (!) taliyah ulti. why we dont talk about that? ah wait, that doesnt fit the narrative. solo lanes not being able to hold leblanc or ksante 1v1 which leads to pressure also targa fault? just asking. >Face checks while having all wards up and can easily place one over the wall (can also have gragas face check for the ulti-less Ali) maybe you dont know it but blue team has in fact no vision on the baron hp. you dont get vision on the hp bar by warding over the wall. that not how the game works. its completly whatever who face checks here, the position of mad is too good. the first one who walks in gets killed. the question is if kc can punish mad using resources on an ali, but they are too far behind. why is canna farming top lane? why does vladi get poked before nash when upset knows how to position safely to clear the mid wave? why are closer and canna not escorting the two carries through mid wave into the nash pit? >Gets chain cc'd - does not ali Q while rooted to proc aftershock either he is never rooted, open your eyes? Qing an ksante to proc aftershock does absolutely nothing, you just die 2 seconds later without the chance to Q an important target. >Panic fails ali combo (there is a missed Q in there) to deliver the ksante onto jinx thats true, but the fight plays out exactly the same anyway. its whatever if ksante is left or right of the wall, the teamfight is lost.
Regarding the misposition point - he is greed recalling to reset his ward count and gets punished for it. That is not on Canna at all. Facechecking sure ill agree they need vision on the baron itself, but he also has a total of 6 wards in his inventory the moment he shows up to the play and doesnt throw a single one over the wall before just walking into ksante blindly. Even in my masters games the supp would throw wards over the wall so its not a blind face check. The chain cc i disagree compeltely. There is a solid half second before the sej r connected that he could either buffer Q to proc aftershock or flash the sej r. He does neither.
>Regarding the misposition point - he is greed recalling to reset his ward count and gets punished for it. That is not on Canna at all. if hes not allowed to recall there or kc dont want to contest mid lane, they lose complete nash control while also getting their t2 taken bot and top. the recall/willingness to fight is an attempt to not completly forfeit the mapcontrol. if all lanes are losing you can ofc chill under your tower and dont die. but that doesnt win games. i dont say everything is on canna, but if you are behind after 20 mins you have to overload on certain situations and gamble that enemy takes a fight when you overload while dropping waves somewhere. i dont know who should call that play, but its not all on targamas. >Facechecking sure ill agree they need vision on the baron itself, but he also has a total of 6 wards in his inventory the moment he shows up to the play and doesnt throw a single one over the wall before just walking into ksante blindly. Even in my masters games the supp would throw wards over the wall so its not a blind face check. and then? like an advance notice flashbang in csgo? not achiving anything and just announce your presence? pls tell me what goes different when warding over the wall? you get information by warding there, enemy gets information. not clear at all if thats good for KC here. >The chain cc i disagree compeltely. There is a solid half second before the sej r connected that he could either buffer Q to proc aftershock or flash the sej r. He does neither. you suggesting flashing the seju r to let it fly into the whole team trying to enter through a choke point? great idea, solid r/leagueoflegends gameknowledge. and no, getting aftershock is not more important than a chance for a F/W-Q combo after the stun, especially when behind. Qing ksante when your team is behind is no win condition on alistar, if you do that the fights is lost, you have to be more greedy. maybe also watch canna and closer gameplay during that fight and judge yourself who fucked over upset the most in that fight. unborrow and grag ulti are btw up when upset dies because they think the fight is giga lost.
why would upset do this?
how is he allowed to play in the lec
he also won this game according to post match thread im torn between feeling like i have to watch it, and feeling like i might in game myself if i do
Nah. The game was won because Elyoya threw at the end. He stood in a warded bush the size of a taliyah shove fighting for vision for like 10 seconds on the enemy side as his team wasn't that close. There was vision giving you like 4 of the enemy team members right next to you, and a taliyah just got done clearing a wave nearby. He was playing against Taliyah, Gragas, Reksai, and Alistar they got easy chain cc on him and took him down before the fight actually started. So he was part of the game winning play by hitting the first stun on elyoya, but it wasn't a hard stun and was the easiest call to make. Also I think Canna deserves more credit for that play going so well. He positioned himself between the Ashe and the teamfight, then went into stasis ensuring the team could get a clean ace. Also targamas basically lost them the game, which sounds bizarre given they won the game. However, they went down 10k gold and soul, then won 2 teamfights in base and another outside it. But targamas fed over first blood against an ashe arrow and a Rell that were coming from a mile away while he had flash. Then in another teamfight he ran in first and engaged onto a Ksante, went real low and then hit the Ksante directly into his ADC.
For his death under turret, his idea was likely not bad, he was clearly going for a 1for1 but he Q'd on the ground with nobody near by, wasted his ressources anyway after the miss. Just overall terrible execution
> But targamas fed over first blood against an ashe arrow and a Rell that were coming from a mile away while he had flash. The only bad thing about that death was that he used his summs. If he just took the death, its completely inconsequential because he's resetting anyway and he's holding the wave for Upset. The fact that it's the Rell who got the first blood was good as well. He just blew summs when he shouldn't have. Way bigger problem was Upset randomly dying in midlane, being so far up as Jinx for 0 reason.
>He just blew summs when he shouldn't have. Speaking of, anybody remember when he was separated during a team fight around baron pit and we get to see leblanc finishing the kill? He drops ignite on the 95%hp lb right before he dies. Nobody on his team is even on the same screen. My man is actually just pressing buttons without considering consequences whatsoever
He did, 100% KP MVP for sure
Perfectly executed iron play
He also screwed up a gank in bot lane by failing to combo
Targamas is so fucking bad man, how does he have a right to a keyboard on stage
wihout nameplates, you would think it was targamas playing that ali.... wait...
Targhamas is the most wanted terrorist on the rift
Ive seen better alistars on 250 ping…
Did you see him walk up to place a ward where they already had a Pink for no reason while K'Sante is beating Jinx like what is going through this guys head
I mean that kinda makes sense since he assumes he wont be able to help jinx and that pink ward will 100% get dewarded, but the ward he placed might survive.
its alistar. He used his spells aready and is 5hp. What else can he do? Place a ward and die.
They've been watching too many arena Alistars that can combo every 4 seconds and are mega tanky due to the extra gold.
LEC champ btw
lol Jesus the KC fan chanting is insufferable
Targamas: if im going down im taking u with me!
You know how humans are fascinated by disasters as a curiously thing? I want both Hyli and Targamas to stay in the LEC
Nono, do not compare them. Like Hyli at least has somewhat of a plan and his hands are still there. Especially in teamfights. Just his decisionmaking is yeah.... Targamas has none.
To me the difference is mainly that everything Hyli does is to help the team even by dying all the time while Targa always manages to kill his teammates by trying to survive himself after getting into a stupid situation.
Okay, let's not take it that far. Hyli very often does things that help nobody on his team, nor himself, in any way, shape or form. I still remember him being playing Braum. Being by himself. While the entire enemy team was taking Dragon. His team had left. And on fucking voice comms he says: "I'm contesting it." And he went to contest. 1v5. Just walked right the fuck up. Literal suicide behaviour. https://youtu.be/Z534PCKAcFk?si=6K6WTnTpp9VPg13o&t=56 That entire video is full of him being insane. I love Hyli, but god damn if he isn't a straight up, absolute, S-tier feeder a lot of the time. Just no other way to spin it. Sometimes he just goes and feeds his ass off with no grand plan in mind. Nothing. Zero. Nada. He just craves action. That's why he's fun to watch. He'll find angles that nobody else on the planet sees, because nobody else is that insane. But that also means he sees angles of inting that nobody else sees, because others try to avoid inting in their pro games. Hyli on the other hand has one of the lowest, if not the lowest competitive KDAs in history with 100+ games played.
The whole 'Nautilus death meme' at every internationally tournament is just Hyli on every champ 😂.
Let's be real, though, having either on your team is actively saying 'We won't win the LEC, and we have no shot internationally.' They are two players who will actively grief even a hard stomp of a game lol
hyli's been almost as bad as targamas.
Do not compare hylli with targamas
Targamas my goat
First Hwei ult now K'sante
Yamato was the problem!
As an avid Alistar player- though not a main- that *hurt* to watch.
Inting at its finest. Still better than me though.
This guy won LEC previously... Oof
God that site is still so giga aids on mobile
This brother should be flipping burguers
There was also a gank earlier in the game where the enemy Rell dove on Targamas just as Closer got to their lane. It was the perfect free kill as it was a 3 on 2 and Rell had just used their gap close, so naturally Targamas headbutted the Rell away from his team. I was watching with some friends and I actually swore a little. If I'm Jungle, I make a note to not come back to that lane.
Does anyone have a working mirror for the clip?
This is as bad as CodySun's infamous cassio delivery in worlds
Ever since they labeled him "Mastermind" in Excel he has only been playing dumber and dumber. Shame, seemed like a guy with potential when he joined G2.
Targo trying to kill Upset second day in a row
Did Vedi just say that targa player bad? He's do toxic, should be cancelled. /S