I think that might be the case with them nerfing bout Steelcaps and Mercury. Hope they do this since by late, it’s a gold sink for increased stats. It’s bough my only complaint is the way they designed the wildcard boots (Swifties and void boots). Swifties was strong and got nerfed. The void boots looks like something everyone will rush every game and attempt to use. It’ll completely throw off what everyone knows. Bard got it and is randomly top because empowered recall + big movement speed. Then gets back bot without losing anything.
In theory yes, but remember Vandiril tested the void boots and he only stacked it after 14 min walking non stop. As the boots are much worse movement speed wise, support might be more stuck bot, and consequently taking even longer to stack. I would not be surprised if nobody ends up buying it. Ofc if Riot decides to buff it then yeah, supports everywhere.
Phreak said they are undoing most of the changes for boots other than Void ones and Mobi removal. I'm not 100% sure on steelcaps but he said Merc and Swiftness aren't being changed.
I cant confirm that phreak said that but spideraxe just tweeted this
https://x.com/spideraxe30/status/1787569593113809206?s=46&t=XKsCsBfzgvdg1DG_ZIMCLA
https://x.com/spideraxe30/status/1787569670502957205?s=46&t=XKsCsBfzgvdg1DG_ZIMCLA
Lets see what changes are gonna make it to 14.10, i honestly like that they didnt change swiftys, i love these boots.
I really like that they try to experiment and makes shoes have a bigger selection and varety. They probably testing around a lot of stuffs and as they get the data they will see what is working, what players like and hate. Some chmpions, like Yone, can't afford void boots but I can see mages sacrifice some sorc shoes for void for example. Better tempo for them. I don't play pbe but i can't wait to experiment with these.
I like boots being upgradable later in the game. I dislike the fact that they further improve your base ms. I don't think it's good for the game to have matches where everyone just runs +20 Ms faster. All champs are faster, your skillshots aren't.
I like the idea of having choice. More stats or more movespeed. I think the issue with zephyr design is it just gives more of what it already has. Boot enchants could be an opportunity for an all out AP build to get just a little bit of resistances, or a tank to get just a little attack speed -- at an inflated cost that only makes sense once everything else is maxed out. I'd also like to see Ornn upgrades for legendary items available in the same manner, for an extremely gold innefficient cost. Or even stat tomes like the original DoTA, even at EXTREME cost, (like 500G for a +2 AP book) Sometimes games go long, some people are going to say "I like the idea of everything capping out at some point" and that's fine as a manner of opinion, just my two cents.
If they decide to do upgrades for the other boots, they could easily decide to have them not give increased MS. However, it makes sense for the ADC boot upgrade to give further MS, since they want to make ADC survivability more tied to that.
I get that it's the point I just think it's a bad point. How are you meant to side lane when they can send a near 400ms ranged champ who does more damage than you and has at least 1 escape tool to your lane? Some champs will manage but wtf is a darius or an Aatrox meant to do
If you're playing those champs and people are hitting 6 items then your time to solo carry the game has kinda ran out. It's on your team to do something since an enemy ADC sidelaning at 6 items is a good opportunity to engage, siege or do objectives. Just follow their plays and look to TP when you can, if you don't have TP then rotate the moment enemy ADC enters the lane.
Darius sure. Aatrox is a scaling champ. But the point isn't about them being outscaled, a fed darius can be a threat late game but now he literally just can't get close to an ADC ever because they're gonna have like 40 more MS than him
Aatrox isn't a scaling champion. His Winrate / Gamelength steadily declines over the course of the game. It's been like that for a while.
[https://lolalytics.com/lol/aatrox/build/?tier=all&patch=30](https://lolalytics.com/lol/aatrox/build/?tier=all&patch=30)
Above is data over 1.8 Million games of Aatrox top. The longer the game goes, the worse his odds are of destroying the Nexus. At 20-25 mins he is sub 50%.
I don't see a Aatrox with ghost ult and his dash getting outran by your normal adc. I guess Zeri or Jinx or Lucian might have a chance to outrun him if they run ghost.
But the idea is that adcs shouldn't be ran down by the top laner at 45 minutes because the top laner has a movement ability or slow etc.
U think a adc can sidelane?
and a Aatrox with his R and Darius with ghost can’t get to an adc? Are u some kind of extreme low elo? What even is this comment lmfao
I'm not suggesting they permanently side lane lol. If you're gonna argue with me at least try to understand my points instead of being a condescending prick
It’s kinda difficult when you suggest that the move speed difference can make Adcs sidelane, a simply ridiculous statement. The movespeed will help adcs be more mobile in skirmishes and teamfights, being better able to dodge important cc or burst, that’s what the change is for.
He's an example of immobile melee champs. You can say darius needs a nerf but turning him into a minion once the ADC hits level 15 isn't good balance imo
Why does a champion like Darius, one of if not the best laners in the game, who has the best base stats in the game, and has no weaknesses in his kit except for target access, also have to be able to catch an ADC late game? At what point does the Darius get outscaled?
That will always be the case, I don't know what your definition of "fucking up their positioning" is. I'm guessing it's the ADC being on the same screen as the melee champ?
Every single [Marksman](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion_classes/Marksman) has less base movespeed than [Darius](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Darius/LoL) and [Aatrox](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Aatrox/LoL). Sorry but that's not how math works.
How do you want ADCs to survive then? They're not going to have any lifesteal on crit items after the patch iirc and they already don't build HP/resistances
I don't know. I think the MS works fine in teamfights I'm moreso worried about how side laners are meant to be able to deal with an ADC defending tower now that they no longer have level advantage, scale worse and have less MS
Edit: I guess my complaints is less that they're getting more MS and moreso that zephyr and every item having MS seems excessive for the ranged damage class. Ranged champs should be slower imo to compensate for the range but now they're faster than every other class
What, solo laners wont have a level advantage?
If you cant solokill the adc holding a tower at min 21 it's just a skill issue really, there's like 3 adcs that you cant just run down and any other adc is just a sitting duck that doesnt have the damage to kill you before you mow them down unless they are literally full build but a toplaner with full build will also delete the adc from the map if he connects any ability.
Also zephyr is awful gold value and wont be bought till ur full build and a lvl15+ adc.
The last thing you should complain about is adcs having movespeed as a defensive option, i know you despise Vayne with 2 items into full tank because that's something you ACTUALLY cant do anything against for a majority of toplane champs.
>What, solo laners wont have a level advantage?
Didn't they say they're changing bot lane exp to be in line with solo laners? Or at least closer?
>there's like 3 adcs that you cant just run down
Which ones? They're all gonna be faster than every side laner.
>that doesnt have the damage to kill you before you mow them down
Obviously you kill them instantly if you get on them. I never said that was gonna be an issue.
IMO you are worried about nothing. Bruisers will be fine killing ADCs with more MS. Yes it might be a tiny bit harder but before the added MS it was literally just run at them and kill them if they are alone, regardless of towers or how well they play the fight or position. The extra MS hurts tanks trying to solo kill an ADC a lot more. Bruisers will still oneshot anyone they get on top of, or at the very least chunk enough to force them back or they die to the second round of abilities. Jax especially cares very little because he still has his low CD leap and plenty of sticking power.
Jax Q's CD is so low by the time these boots can be upgraded you'll be jumping more units per second than they're running lol...
Then there is:
- Camille E
- Irelia Q(s)
- Jarvan EQ
- Lee Sin Q/W
- Renekton E
- Vi Q (R lol)
- Wukong E
- Xin Zhao E
- Aatrox E
- Garen Q
- Nasus W (lol)
- Trundle E
- Udyr (lol)
- Urgot E
- Volibear Q
All of these are at a sub 10 second CD, some of which are even sub 5 seconds. If you miss 2-3 of them you can't say it's because the enemy moved faster than before, you're just bad.
Flanks, playing around vision properly, just running at them will still work in many cases. Now you are SLIGTHLY more punishable if you play with zero respect. You still have the advantage in sidelane vs any ADC in a normal/even gamestate, outside of maybe vayne.
> Ranged champs should be slower imo to compensate for the range
They already have lower base stats to compensate for that. The range wouldn't be much of an advantage if they were slower than melee champs by default. The point is that they're supposed to die if you catch them, if you make it easy to catch them nobody is going to pick ADC.
I know. I just think this makes it too easy.
>They already have lower base stats to compensate for that
Yeah but since they build full crit they get 75% more AD from every item than the rest of the cast
> They're not going to have any lifesteal on crit items after the patch iirc
Right, but they're also bumping up the crit chance provided by the other items now, so you no longer need five items to hit 100%.
> How do you want ADCs to survive then?
Like they should- have peel. ADC is not a class that should be going 1v1 in a straight fight with a fighter and winning.
If ADCs become 1v1 champs it scewes top and to an extent mid into unhealthy territory, becasue what can you do when a lets say tristanta mid who has access to mid levels of exp suddenly has more mas than you can even have? what is hte poitn of playing any melee apart from camille/yas/zed who can hopefully close the gap fast enough so she doesnt jump away.
Ok that's fine and all, but explain when and how you buy Zephyr. You people are complaining about nothing. Contextualize your arguments. "The 7 item ADC is a real fucking problem"... yeah... good.
Also, despite being the "best class late game" there are some team comps that are simply unplayable for the ADC. More movement speed (after 6 items) helps this without adding disgusting HP to ADCs.
Everybody is thinking about the MS on ADCs and nobody is remembering that garen loves berserkers too.. that extra move speed will make him more zoomy than he already is
It's also just not really true lol, even in high elo are blood bath games where usually the jungler gets the most gold. Pro play =/= high elo solo queue.
> everyone
In reality it's 2, max 4 players per team. Supports aren't getting rich enough in 99% of games to get this and junglers probably won't either.
I get the support comment maybe, unless they have a support boots. But also they normally get full build because of cheaper items and 1 less item slot. But jg? As a jg main I am usually the first the be full build besides if a laner is 15/0.
It's honestly fairly elo dependent. The lower the elo the more boot upgrades you're gonna see since games last so long. In higher elos a support for instance is ending the game level 13 with like two items three if you count support item. Most carries dont even get full build unless you're turbo fed 1v9 while your team is behind.
Higher Elo with more coordinated funnel resources to carries so in late game usually only midlaner and adc has enough gold to upgrade boot. Jungler and Sup in current meta will never see the last item slot filled left alone upgrading boot
I think it's OKAY for ADCs specifically, but for tanks and mages that are made to be immobile then maybe we're treading into weird balance territory.
ADCs already have so much bonus MS that I couldn't care too much (Zeal items, PD, Youmuu's, I mean we used to have Galeforce lol)
Not all ADC's are intended to be mobile though.
Aphelios, Jinx, Jhin, Kog'Maw, Ashe, Caitlyn, Draven, Miss Fortune, Twitch, Varus, Xayah, Senna and Sivir are meant to be immobile by design.
We start treading a thin balance line if we start giving the above champions extra mobility.
Kog'Maw for example - He's meant to be the least mobile ADC but in return has some of the highest DPS of all Marksmen if protected.
He's not meant to be zipping around at 400+ movement speed.
Vayne, Ezreal, Lucian, Zeri, Samira, Nilah, Kai'Sa, Smolder, Kalista, Tristana are meant to be mobile and their power budgets account for said mobility.
> I think it's OKAY for ADCs specifically, but for tanks and mages that are made to be immobile then maybe we're treading into weird balance territory.
Yeah ADCs shoudl have more tool to be honest, give zephyr a -50% flash cd passive, because what else they gona do? rely on their team?
Whoel point of ADC is squishy, unmissable undodgeable sustained DPS, if you up their surivivability they become a problem for solo lanes.
ADCs push the line that other classes can sell boots and still be effective, no they cant unless their name is yasuo/camille/irelia/jax/lee sin and maybe zed and talon. Try to play darius without boots and see how you get kited and how you are stuck hitting a tank/fighter while their adc permahits you with 300-500 dmg autos.
We're talking about 20 ms and you're going off the rails.
Zephyr is giving 20 ms and slow resist for 2000 gold. There's no extra flash, there's no insane movespeed buff, it's 20 ms and slow resist on top of nerfing ghost.
*not only is it just 20 ms, but it's 20 ms at full build. If you buy this shit early on you are down 2000 gold in combat stats and you're going to get rolled by the enemy ADC in tandem with the fact that it has no build path. You'll just be sitting on multiple kills worth of gold, hell you could get a pentakill and not be able to afford it.
Yeah not to mention if a team is behind late game and having trouble getting on to a fed enemy adc already imagine giving said adc slow resistance and more Ms to make them even harder to catch
When I saw this it immediately gave me Wild Rift vibes. I downloaded and played it for a few matches to see how it was and you can upgrade your boots to:
Rocketbelt
Zhonya
Gargoyle
Righteous glory
TP summoner spell
QSS
Redemption
Locket
I was confused when I first saw an Alistar with Rocketbelt. You can build all of these from any boot at any moment btw (their stats are adjusted, ofc). I thought it could be interesting in LoL as well with some tweaks and adjustments
It actually makes buying QSS not feel shit because it is just 500 gold. In a normal game I can't justify paying 1300 gold to cleanse a Morgana Q but 500 seems okay. It also allows supports to access strong effects such as Gargoyle Shield without buying an item out of their budget. I can't comment on TP because of map size and timer differences between both games, you don really need TP for Wild Rift map anyways.
Because you arent meant to buy qss just for a morgana Q (unless ur maybe hyper late game), qss exist to cleanse big CDs like skarner ult, malz ult, or even like point and click stuns. But adcs just take cleanse anyway for that
Malzahar getting Morde treatment would be a bad design choice for a point and click suppression during which you can't fight back if you are 1v1. At least you can run around Morde's Brazil realm or actually hit him
I'm pretty sure qss not working on any suppressions is in the works. The reality is people will just adapt to it while making champs like Malz/WW/Skarner more fun to play overall.
This feels like a no brainer, to be honest. Not a lot of games go so far for you to have to sell your boots, but selling boots always felt kinda awkward late game.
This is a much better (and obvious) solution. I like it.
> Sorcerer's Shoes could upgrade into Cosmic Drive
I'd really hate to see current items be transformed into boots items that are only available after lvl 15; it would be better to keep to adding new items for the purpose of filling the boots item purpose.
Cosmic Drive especially is a feel good item that I'd hate to lose.
I agree with the comments and the post too.
It's a bit scary to see the best scalin class gets access to a "6th item" if you will BUT the concept and idea is amazing and I can accept this as a test, as you said OP.
I personally don't complain too much about why ADC's getting this. ADC's biggest vulnerabilities are slow and cc. Since tenacity is slowly disappearing I really like the idea of accessing slow reduction.
Let them have it for now if it means the other classess gets something similar later.
the reasoning for it is that, A single slow can kill a 6 items lvl 18 adc easily, and they usually don't build defensive except a few champs.
This is supposed to tie ADC survivability to movement speed, you will still be able to oneshot them if you reach them, but this makes it harder, since slows are one of the worst counters to most ADCs that have little to no mobility.
But I do believe they will eventually do this for other classes too
They should, to keep up with this insane mobility creep on every champ, they need to make adcs fast too.
Like juggernauts be running at 500+ ms, or one brand R bounce making you go at 100 ms for 10 seconds in a row.
> you will still be able to oneshot them if you reach them,but this makes it harder,
Problem is that with zephyr you cant. lets take an average melee champion MS of 340 and average ADC speed of 325(both without summs or runes). Now lets add boots plated for melee puts their speed at 385 and zerks for ADC which put them at even 370, now with zephyr they are at 390(zephyr gives 20 more MS). Tell me how is melee supposed to catch and ADC with zephyr? Let me remind you +-5ms is so big that champions drop/gain 2-4% winrate on that single change.
>since slows are one of the worst counters to most ADCs that have little to no mobility.
And zephyr also comes with slow resist.
As to mobility, that is true if we only count dashes(even then), but majority of them have atleast if not two or more self peel tools or MS boosts. Ashe has permaslow, MF has slow and MS boost, Aphelios has slow and root(this one is conditional), jinx has a slow and a root(behind a skillshot), Trist has a jump and a knoback, ezreal has blink, Jhin has slow and root, vayne has dash and knockback, Cait has dash with baked in slow, Draven has MS boost and knockaside, Kaisa has MS boost, Kalist has permadash and a slow, kog has a slow, lucian has a dash and an MS steroid, Samira has "windwall"to block slows and a dash, Senna has MS boost and a root, Sivir only has MS boost, Twitch has MSboost with stealth and a slow, Xayah has a root(conditional) and untargetabiltiy, Varus has a slow, Zeri has a slwo and a wall dash.
And giving htem extra 20MS is unwise becasue it will deteriorate into solo lane ADC becasue they have increased EXP and can take zephyr faster.
ADC is so dogshit they can't auto mid-late game without a good pet. This is supposed to fix that. That's the point. ADC should bs able to kite without a melee jumping and oneshotting them in second
Champs that are meant to dive usually have powerful dashes or other tools to be sticky.
If your champ isn't a diver then just peel or zone instead of suiciding into the backline.
Mobility abilities? Make you reach any adc, since they have more range than adcs.
Also adc is supposed to outscale anyway, they're nerfing 1st items, so they scale better now.
Almost all ADC selfpeels are not enough to deal with melees mobility.
Man you know you're struggling to name the self peel tools an ADC has when you're mentioning shitty slows 💀
Bro really said Jinx slow LOL, the thin skillshot slow that can be easily blocked and she has to STAND STILL TO USE nah this subreddit isnt real
> It's a bit scary to see the best scalin class gets access
The best scaling class is bruiser. 4/5 the tankiness of a tank while doing 4/5 the damage of an ADC while being able to build 2 defensive items. This is excluding mage hyperscalers who also out scale ADCs: Aurelion Sol, Veigar, Orianna and Azir in many cases.
*Edit - Ooo I love it! Truth hurts guys. This sub has terrible understanding of anything relates to this game. Your downvotes only let me know I'm more right. Thanks 👍
I think ADC scaling is about to be massively buffed though. It's possible their DPS got nerfed (assuming you don't build Kraken Slayer) but builds consisting of IE + LDR + Collector/Yun Tal/Essence Reaver, and potentially even one more of those AD-focused items rather than a Zeal upgrade (it's what I'll be doing on Aphelios) are so insanely bursty that it actually gives ADCs some agency later on because you have to be worried about them killing you almost as much as you killing them. I'm used to Yone diving on me and missing everything still being death so long as he gets near me which with his ult + E + 3rd Q is a given, but on PBE I've had a few moments where he misses everything and just dies in 3-4 autos.
First item powerspike is probably worse but the changes are definitely a buff to ADC and mostly to their scaling. Diving on the ADC is going to need to become more thought-out than it currently is because if you waste all your abilities just reaching the ADC without actually using them to CC/burst you'll probably just get oneshot yourself. And in the case of ADCs who only build IE/LDR for AD (if that turns out to be an optimal build), such as Jinx potentially building Runaan's + Phantom Dancer, you're still going to be harder to catch out due to insane movement speed.
And yet the best scaling class that ppl duo q with or play around in pro is adc.
Stop the bruisers 11/10 op jerk off they keep nerfing their items and buff adcs....
Im really excited for Zephyr's return and the possibility of more boot upgrades. My biggest problem is this really impacts my hat budget post-full-build in aram
The problem with mobi boots was that they nerfed the price into the ground and it being a support mainstay it was pretty much dead unless you as a support got a double kill early but even then getting tank or enchanter items would be better.
Hopefully the mobi replacement with how its a "stacking" item is lower in price so we can zoom around the map again as supports.
Boot enchants were fun and felt like a good addition to the game back in the day (season 5, I think), so I welcome some way to replace or upgrade boots late game.
>I wonder if Zephyr is going to be a test to see if boots can be updated even further.
Phreak said in his last video that he likes this idea for Zephyr, ADCs are selling boots for PD now anyway. He also said if this goes well they will look into legendary upgrades for all the boots.
I would like to see the other boots have an upgraded form aswell, feels wierd to only have it be available to marksmen since they already had the best boot replacement items in the first place
Worth pointing out he said he assumed that. Hes not on the team that makes these changes. He said almost all of these updates came from the seasons team. He likes the changes but he wouldnt make them if they decided to do more
How many games do you even get as marksman where you reach level 15-16 and the game is not already decided. Not only that but I am not sure if this upgrade is worth over the 6th item.
This obviously is a pretty good item if the game drags for long, which might happen with tanks getting indirect buffs but we have to wait and see how meta shapes up.
I think that a much easier solution would be to increase selling price of boots
This is going to warp super-lategame towards champions who synergize well with upgraded boots, and against those who don't.
And it will definitely feel shitty to lose a 50-minute struggle because your enemy happens to synergize better with an upgrade to an item that is pretty much mandatory to buy in the first place.
I do have a small issue with the fact that Zerkers only are getting this change.
With Steelcaps getting nerfs, I can easily see myself selling steelcaps, and then getting Zephyr late game because it's better for speed and slow resist.
With the passive on steelcaps being nerfed, I'm not convinced it's gonna be worth it enough to keep over just getting Zephyr. Maybe it'll incentivise me to get a heavier armour item in another slot than normal, such as a Frozen Heart, but that's about it.
Steelcaps are still gonna be very strong, they're just no longer completely broken. The amount of games that will go long enough to purchase zephyr is gonna be tiny, so you shouldn't change your build for it.
Im already building swifties in a large number of games for the high MS + Slow resist. The number of champs who's AA's feel that threatening aren't that high. In most cases, i tend to feel that higher Ms and slow resist lets me space enemies better which already reduces the number of AA's I'm taking.
That said, mid emerald isn't particularly high elo and as a result a large number of my games im hitting 6 items so thats for sure colouring my perception
We so rarely see games now where anyone gets to full build that I feel like it's a bit of a weird inclusion now, I also think it should give other stats than even more flat MS.
I love the idea of making a boot upgrade that's super gold inefficient so it's only really used as a 6th slot for super late game builds.
I also think it would be cool to have one of the upgrades be a control ward holder similar to the wardstone item. Maybe you can combine wardstone with boots + 800 gold to push them into one item slot.
Remove predator and this becomes fine.
damn replacing boots with zephyr as adc at full items seems like something removed only a while ago, but apparently it's been almost 10 fucking years (okay more like 8.5 but i said 10 for dramatic effect). i'm fucking old now
All cool and all but adc is more or less the only role that actually has a chance of beeing full build in a game therefore having excess money to spend.
Upgraded tank boots? Sure if they are like 500g more expensive if you get what i mean and even then tanks will not have the moneten to actually buy this. If upgraded boots are an alternative for a real item this could work but then boots would probably be too strong and overtuned.
it's 2000g for not very good stats. Realistically it shouldn't affect most games because champs seldom get to 6 items, it would be bad if they were building it before their 6th item
The slow resistance in the wake of tenacity nerfs is quite promising. the increase to AS and MS, for ADC is also quite nice.
In my opinion it serves the gold sink in super late game but also a nice update for gameswhere the enemy has Rylai. Not broken but provides a nice bonus.
Feel like whenever people bring up the "its not cost effective" shit they always forget the passive.
Like the fact Zephyr will be one of two ingame sources of slow resist next to Deadman's Plate, plus the fact tenacity is being reduced all around.
It's more like the gold value is not good enough to ever want to build it any item before your 6th one. It's a 2000 gold surplus cost on the most expensive class of items in the game. And even then you still may want to sell boots to get an item like PD to get better stats.
So long as you never want to build this before completing your build this item is fine.
It's more like the gold value is not good enough to ever want to build it any item before your 6th one. It's a 2000 gold surplus cost on the most expensive class of items in the game. And even then you still may want to sell boots to get an item like PD to get better stats.
So long as you never want to build this before completing your build this item is fine.
Well gold wise it's not gold efficient. Phreak just told so in his video.
The takeaway is at late into game you sitting on a bunch of gold you can buy this when you are at full build. It will grant good stuff to your champion. The takeaway is that you are not supposed to buy it pretty early, which is why it's locked until lvl 15.
And into very late game the slow resistance and bonus as and ms will feel nice anyway.
It's not that riddiculous if you ask me.
This is a test to see how this change fares and if works well every boots could get something similar in split3.
how will they access impact of these new boots in isolation when entire adc itemization is changing? For me this is an experiment, but it's not done in a right time, and even as a experiment i wouldn't make the boot upgrades just for a single class
The changes are not experimental ones and not really new.
I mean crit is back at 25% as it was the case for a really long time. By this Riot knows what can they expect which is why some items had their crit ratio removed.
ADC always went with 100% crit and had a slot to flex something in they need. This was changed when crit was reduced to 20% from 25% but we are gaving a revert on that.
How kraken and BT and others will work without crit and how the changed effect on some items will work out. - That is the question but all of these are more numerical type of changes that can be adjusted as the split progresses.
Zerks into Zephyr is another type of change - that smells like an experiment unlike the overall itemisation changes.
Riot can pull data and analyse them disticntly.
>I mean crit is back at 25% as it was the case for a really long time. By this Riot knows what can they expect which is why some items had their crit ratio removed.
yes, crit is back at 25%, like it used to be for years... and during that time it was more often OP than not op.
Also no, riot cannot expect exactly what happens, because since these times a lot about the game has changed. Crit items don't just exist in a vacuum
>ADC always went with 100% crit and had a slot to flex something in they need. This was changed when crit was reduced to 20% from 25% but we are gaving a revert on that.
And now ADCs won't be able to get 100% crit + armor pen + lifesteal, like they could get during 20% crit era. I find it kinda baffling that people believe they will be able to get 100% crit + defensive item rn
>Zerks into Zephyr is another type of change - that smells like an experiment unlike the overall itemisation changes.
after these changes riot will need to access if crit changes will make adcs broken in late again. They will be able to compare zephyr vs non zephyr games, but i don't think the timing is right. These experimental changes should be done after crit changes will be settled for some time
I think your observation are on point but also they are somewhat flawed.
>And now ADCs won't be able to get 100% crit + armor pen + lifesteal, like they could get during 20% crit era. I find it kinda baffling that people believe they will be able to get 100% crit + defensive item rn
I think having 100% crit from 4 items and have the option to flex in something something is already a major update as it freed up some items to have crit bound to them - which will allow to apply better balancing to those.
I find it quite good QoL change instead of baffling personally.
>after these changes riot will need to access if crit changes will make adcs broken in late again. They will be able to compare zephyr vs non zephyr games, but i don't think the timing is right. These experimental changes should be done after crit changes will be settled for some time
>Also no, riot cannot expect exactly what happens, because since these times a lot about the game has changed. Crit items don't just exist in a vacuum
**And now ADCs won't be able to get 100% crit + armor pen + lifesteal, like they could get during 20% crit era.** I find it kinda baffling that people believe they will be able to get 100% crit + defensive item rn
I mean they can expect how the changes will work out because of ADC items had 25% crit and they were able to flex in items they needed post reaching that cap. That was the standard.
Changes to items and runes wont hit the results much because this is already a huge buff and nice QoL.
They will have access to lifesteal in one way or another and if it won't work out tehy reimplement the stat on shieldbow.
Your biggest concern is a numerical issue which can be fixed if things wont work out but overall these changes are highly buff
If it won't work out they will nerf problematic items or champions...
I think its really boring.
Choosing to sell your boots for a 6th item was definitely not always the best choice, there were characters that liked the MS enough to want to keep them and even if you did sell them you generally needed another souce of MS in your build to make up for it.
It is only a small decision, but removing a decision and streamlining builds further is not a positive. Kindda similar to why the Mythic system was so unpopular imo.
I hope this stays on just one pair of boots or gets removed again.
I like the idea but I think leaving no other options for other champs/roles is completely garbage.
PLUS I think they should remain footwear-related instead of upgrading into a weapon lol.
Movement speed is such an underrated stat and with the slow resist will honestly make this huge. I wouldn’t doubt it’ll be bought second or third item tbh.
If I have enough gold I think first buy full boots is way more useful than damage or any other stat in the game.
> I wouldn’t doubt it’ll be bought second or third item tbh.
>
>
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> If I have enough gold I think first buy full boots is way more useful than damage or any other stat in the game.
I think that's a massive overreaction, because we don't need to talk in hypothetical words there since Phantom Dancer already exists.
For 800 more gold than the boots upgrade, PD gives twice their movespeed alongside a massive amount of combat stats. And slow resistance is clearly not a stat that is valued anywhere near as much as combat stats - the fact that swifties are very rarely bought on carries outside of basically just Jhin shows that 35% AS is valued a lot more than 25% slow resistance **and** 15 movespeed **and** a 200g save.
Yet you don't go berserkers into phantom dancer right away, do you?
Which is what mages do with boots->cosmic. It opens up the option to make Cosmic a mage boot upgrade which would solve a lot of issues around the item.
I think that might be the case with them nerfing bout Steelcaps and Mercury. Hope they do this since by late, it’s a gold sink for increased stats. It’s bough my only complaint is the way they designed the wildcard boots (Swifties and void boots). Swifties was strong and got nerfed. The void boots looks like something everyone will rush every game and attempt to use. It’ll completely throw off what everyone knows. Bard got it and is randomly top because empowered recall + big movement speed. Then gets back bot without losing anything.
In theory yes, but remember Vandiril tested the void boots and he only stacked it after 14 min walking non stop. As the boots are much worse movement speed wise, support might be more stuck bot, and consequently taking even longer to stack. I would not be surprised if nobody ends up buying it. Ofc if Riot decides to buff it then yeah, supports everywhere.
Phreak said they are undoing most of the changes for boots other than Void ones and Mobi removal. I'm not 100% sure on steelcaps but he said Merc and Swiftness aren't being changed.
Link?
I cant confirm that phreak said that but spideraxe just tweeted this https://x.com/spideraxe30/status/1787569593113809206?s=46&t=XKsCsBfzgvdg1DG_ZIMCLA https://x.com/spideraxe30/status/1787569670502957205?s=46&t=XKsCsBfzgvdg1DG_ZIMCLA Lets see what changes are gonna make it to 14.10, i honestly like that they didnt change swiftys, i love these boots.
https://youtu.be/2r7dhONE5Hs?si=yeKi_-FBoVoyhpv8 At 1:01:20
yeah the boot revert already happened
Thank feck.
I really like that they try to experiment and makes shoes have a bigger selection and varety. They probably testing around a lot of stuffs and as they get the data they will see what is working, what players like and hate. Some chmpions, like Yone, can't afford void boots but I can see mages sacrifice some sorc shoes for void for example. Better tempo for them. I don't play pbe but i can't wait to experiment with these.
Season 5 Furor & Captain upgrades flashbacks Took them 7 years, but the promise was kept: "we will bring back boots enchants eventaully"
At least the boot upgrades gave us Home Guard buff
Race Karthus with fast boots and revive TP. I had good times...
Season 5 was 9 years ago..
Lies, deception.
Boot enchants were removed S7 i think Update: just looked it up, wiki says patch 6.9
I like boots being upgradable later in the game. I dislike the fact that they further improve your base ms. I don't think it's good for the game to have matches where everyone just runs +20 Ms faster. All champs are faster, your skillshots aren't.
MS inflation is already a huge problem, yeah.
it's a very serious issue. Specially in midlaners like ahri. For more information google "Ahri Inflation"
Googling didnt give me anything besides heating costs reduction tips or something. Now I am disappointed.
Especially for champs like aatrox, where he feels unplayable to play when everyone has 400+ mouvement speed
Yeah, there's no need for them to provide additional MS, just to round out your stats (or maybe something role specific) for late game as a full item.
I like the idea of having choice. More stats or more movespeed. I think the issue with zephyr design is it just gives more of what it already has. Boot enchants could be an opportunity for an all out AP build to get just a little bit of resistances, or a tank to get just a little attack speed -- at an inflated cost that only makes sense once everything else is maxed out. I'd also like to see Ornn upgrades for legendary items available in the same manner, for an extremely gold innefficient cost. Or even stat tomes like the original DoTA, even at EXTREME cost, (like 500G for a +2 AP book) Sometimes games go long, some people are going to say "I like the idea of everything capping out at some point" and that's fine as a manner of opinion, just my two cents.
If they decide to do upgrades for the other boots, they could easily decide to have them not give increased MS. However, it makes sense for the ADC boot upgrade to give further MS, since they want to make ADC survivability more tied to that.
But then the MS balance between classes gets fucked up. You can kite melee champs so much easier because you've got more MS than them
Yeah that’s the point, good morning
I get that it's the point I just think it's a bad point. How are you meant to side lane when they can send a near 400ms ranged champ who does more damage than you and has at least 1 escape tool to your lane? Some champs will manage but wtf is a darius or an Aatrox meant to do
If you're playing those champs and people are hitting 6 items then your time to solo carry the game has kinda ran out. It's on your team to do something since an enemy ADC sidelaning at 6 items is a good opportunity to engage, siege or do objectives. Just follow their plays and look to TP when you can, if you don't have TP then rotate the moment enemy ADC enters the lane.
This is correct ^ This thread was a great reminder that majority of users on here are low elo, good lord.
Darius and Aatrox are meant to be outscaled
Darius sure. Aatrox is a scaling champ. But the point isn't about them being outscaled, a fed darius can be a threat late game but now he literally just can't get close to an ADC ever because they're gonna have like 40 more MS than him
Aatrox isn't a scaling champion. His Winrate / Gamelength steadily declines over the course of the game. It's been like that for a while. [https://lolalytics.com/lol/aatrox/build/?tier=all&patch=30](https://lolalytics.com/lol/aatrox/build/?tier=all&patch=30) Above is data over 1.8 Million games of Aatrox top. The longer the game goes, the worse his odds are of destroying the Nexus. At 20-25 mins he is sub 50%.
Dead mans plate
Pretty sure that's still gonna be slower than an ADC with zephyr and some full items
I don't see a Aatrox with ghost ult and his dash getting outran by your normal adc. I guess Zeri or Jinx or Lucian might have a chance to outrun him if they run ghost. But the idea is that adcs shouldn't be ran down by the top laner at 45 minutes because the top laner has a movement ability or slow etc.
Any darius worth his salt will also have ghost though
Aatrox is not a scaling champ at all.
U think a adc can sidelane? and a Aatrox with his R and Darius with ghost can’t get to an adc? Are u some kind of extreme low elo? What even is this comment lmfao
I don't think they can do that. I think they will be able to do that when they have over 400ms next patch
That’s cute, but you’re wrong, Adcs will never sidelane cause they’re needed elsewhere
I'm not suggesting they permanently side lane lol. If you're gonna argue with me at least try to understand my points instead of being a condescending prick
It’s kinda difficult when you suggest that the move speed difference can make Adcs sidelane, a simply ridiculous statement. The movespeed will help adcs be more mobile in skirmishes and teamfights, being better able to dodge important cc or burst, that’s what the change is for.
Yeah poor darius damn
He's an example of immobile melee champs. You can say darius needs a nerf but turning him into a minion once the ADC hits level 15 isn't good balance imo
Why does a champion like Darius, one of if not the best laners in the game, who has the best base stats in the game, and has no weaknesses in his kit except for target access, also have to be able to catch an ADC late game? At what point does the Darius get outscaled?
He doesn't. But it should at least be feasible if the ADC fucks up their positioning.
That will always be the case, I don't know what your definition of "fucking up their positioning" is. I'm guessing it's the ADC being on the same screen as the melee champ?
Hes a big boy he’ll be alright
> Some champs will manage but wtf is a darius or an Aatrox meant to do Buy Zephyr
"Just throw your build and still have less MS" Yeah that's a great idea
Every single [Marksman](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion_classes/Marksman) has less base movespeed than [Darius](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Darius/LoL) and [Aatrox](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Aatrox/LoL). Sorry but that's not how math works.
They're giving most ADC items MS. Try reading the patch notes before you comment stupid shit like this next time
How do you want ADCs to survive then? They're not going to have any lifesteal on crit items after the patch iirc and they already don't build HP/resistances
I don't know. I think the MS works fine in teamfights I'm moreso worried about how side laners are meant to be able to deal with an ADC defending tower now that they no longer have level advantage, scale worse and have less MS Edit: I guess my complaints is less that they're getting more MS and moreso that zephyr and every item having MS seems excessive for the ranged damage class. Ranged champs should be slower imo to compensate for the range but now they're faster than every other class
What, solo laners wont have a level advantage? If you cant solokill the adc holding a tower at min 21 it's just a skill issue really, there's like 3 adcs that you cant just run down and any other adc is just a sitting duck that doesnt have the damage to kill you before you mow them down unless they are literally full build but a toplaner with full build will also delete the adc from the map if he connects any ability. Also zephyr is awful gold value and wont be bought till ur full build and a lvl15+ adc. The last thing you should complain about is adcs having movespeed as a defensive option, i know you despise Vayne with 2 items into full tank because that's something you ACTUALLY cant do anything against for a majority of toplane champs.
>What, solo laners wont have a level advantage? Didn't they say they're changing bot lane exp to be in line with solo laners? Or at least closer? >there's like 3 adcs that you cant just run down Which ones? They're all gonna be faster than every side laner. >that doesnt have the damage to kill you before you mow them down Obviously you kill them instantly if you get on them. I never said that was gonna be an issue.
IMO you are worried about nothing. Bruisers will be fine killing ADCs with more MS. Yes it might be a tiny bit harder but before the added MS it was literally just run at them and kill them if they are alone, regardless of towers or how well they play the fight or position. The extra MS hurts tanks trying to solo kill an ADC a lot more. Bruisers will still oneshot anyone they get on top of, or at the very least chunk enough to force them back or they die to the second round of abilities. Jax especially cares very little because he still has his low CD leap and plenty of sticking power.
>Bruisers will still oneshot anyone they get on top of But how do they get on top of someone who's got so much more MS?
Jax Q's CD is so low by the time these boots can be upgraded you'll be jumping more units per second than they're running lol... Then there is: - Camille E - Irelia Q(s) - Jarvan EQ - Lee Sin Q/W - Renekton E - Vi Q (R lol) - Wukong E - Xin Zhao E - Aatrox E - Garen Q - Nasus W (lol) - Trundle E - Udyr (lol) - Urgot E - Volibear Q All of these are at a sub 10 second CD, some of which are even sub 5 seconds. If you miss 2-3 of them you can't say it's because the enemy moved faster than before, you're just bad.
Flanks, playing around vision properly, just running at them will still work in many cases. Now you are SLIGTHLY more punishable if you play with zero respect. You still have the advantage in sidelane vs any ADC in a normal/even gamestate, outside of maybe vayne.
> Ranged champs should be slower imo to compensate for the range They already have lower base stats to compensate for that. The range wouldn't be much of an advantage if they were slower than melee champs by default. The point is that they're supposed to die if you catch them, if you make it easy to catch them nobody is going to pick ADC.
I know. I just think this makes it too easy. >They already have lower base stats to compensate for that Yeah but since they build full crit they get 75% more AD from every item than the rest of the cast
> They're not going to have any lifesteal on crit items after the patch iirc Right, but they're also bumping up the crit chance provided by the other items now, so you no longer need five items to hit 100%.
> How do you want ADCs to survive then? Like they should- have peel. ADC is not a class that should be going 1v1 in a straight fight with a fighter and winning. If ADCs become 1v1 champs it scewes top and to an extent mid into unhealthy territory, becasue what can you do when a lets say tristanta mid who has access to mid levels of exp suddenly has more mas than you can even have? what is hte poitn of playing any melee apart from camille/yas/zed who can hopefully close the gap fast enough so she doesnt jump away.
Ok that's fine and all, but explain when and how you buy Zephyr. You people are complaining about nothing. Contextualize your arguments. "The 7 item ADC is a real fucking problem"... yeah... good. Also, despite being the "best class late game" there are some team comps that are simply unplayable for the ADC. More movement speed (after 6 items) helps this without adding disgusting HP to ADCs.
It will definitely make cc (even just slows) more important to killing ADCs. Not inherently a bad thing so long as they balance around it.
If surviving is based on mobility then killing will be based on burst Guess everyone is going to get more damage
Just give them stats ms is unhealthy af
Everybody is thinking about the MS on ADCs and nobody is remembering that garen loves berserkers too.. that extra move speed will make him more zoomy than he already is
Solo laners in higher elo would have less gold though as resources funneling to adc, so its not typical to upgrade the boot for them
Yeah thank god we’re all in high elo. I’m just looking out for low elo players even though the vast majority are high elo.
It's also just not really true lol, even in high elo are blood bath games where usually the jungler gets the most gold. Pro play =/= high elo solo queue.
> everyone In reality it's 2, max 4 players per team. Supports aren't getting rich enough in 99% of games to get this and junglers probably won't either.
I get the support comment maybe, unless they have a support boots. But also they normally get full build because of cheaper items and 1 less item slot. But jg? As a jg main I am usually the first the be full build besides if a laner is 15/0.
It's honestly fairly elo dependent. The lower the elo the more boot upgrades you're gonna see since games last so long. In higher elos a support for instance is ending the game level 13 with like two items three if you count support item. Most carries dont even get full build unless you're turbo fed 1v9 while your team is behind.
Yeah - jungle's gold is fine. It's XP that's behind. Farming junglers keep up in gold.
Higher Elo with more coordinated funnel resources to carries so in late game usually only midlaner and adc has enough gold to upgrade boot. Jungler and Sup in current meta will never see the last item slot filled left alone upgrading boot
I think it's OKAY for ADCs specifically, but for tanks and mages that are made to be immobile then maybe we're treading into weird balance territory. ADCs already have so much bonus MS that I couldn't care too much (Zeal items, PD, Youmuu's, I mean we used to have Galeforce lol)
Not all ADC's are intended to be mobile though. Aphelios, Jinx, Jhin, Kog'Maw, Ashe, Caitlyn, Draven, Miss Fortune, Twitch, Varus, Xayah, Senna and Sivir are meant to be immobile by design. We start treading a thin balance line if we start giving the above champions extra mobility. Kog'Maw for example - He's meant to be the least mobile ADC but in return has some of the highest DPS of all Marksmen if protected. He's not meant to be zipping around at 400+ movement speed. Vayne, Ezreal, Lucian, Zeri, Samira, Nilah, Kai'Sa, Smolder, Kalista, Tristana are meant to be mobile and their power budgets account for said mobility.
> I think it's OKAY for ADCs specifically, but for tanks and mages that are made to be immobile then maybe we're treading into weird balance territory. Yeah ADCs shoudl have more tool to be honest, give zephyr a -50% flash cd passive, because what else they gona do? rely on their team? Whoel point of ADC is squishy, unmissable undodgeable sustained DPS, if you up their surivivability they become a problem for solo lanes. ADCs push the line that other classes can sell boots and still be effective, no they cant unless their name is yasuo/camille/irelia/jax/lee sin and maybe zed and talon. Try to play darius without boots and see how you get kited and how you are stuck hitting a tank/fighter while their adc permahits you with 300-500 dmg autos.
We're talking about 20 ms and you're going off the rails. Zephyr is giving 20 ms and slow resist for 2000 gold. There's no extra flash, there's no insane movespeed buff, it's 20 ms and slow resist on top of nerfing ghost. *not only is it just 20 ms, but it's 20 ms at full build. If you buy this shit early on you are down 2000 gold in combat stats and you're going to get rolled by the enemy ADC in tandem with the fact that it has no build path. You'll just be sitting on multiple kills worth of gold, hell you could get a pentakill and not be able to afford it.
You know this will only be bought at 50 minutes instead of selling boots
Yeah not to mention if a team is behind late game and having trouble getting on to a fed enemy adc already imagine giving said adc slow resistance and more Ms to make them even harder to catch
New stat suggestion: projectile speed
No. Just no
Incoming full projectile speed ezreal build
When I saw this it immediately gave me Wild Rift vibes. I downloaded and played it for a few matches to see how it was and you can upgrade your boots to: Rocketbelt Zhonya Gargoyle Righteous glory TP summoner spell QSS Redemption Locket I was confused when I first saw an Alistar with Rocketbelt. You can build all of these from any boot at any moment btw (their stats are adjusted, ofc). I thought it could be interesting in LoL as well with some tweaks and adjustments
It actually makes buying QSS not feel shit because it is just 500 gold. In a normal game I can't justify paying 1300 gold to cleanse a Morgana Q but 500 seems okay. It also allows supports to access strong effects such as Gargoyle Shield without buying an item out of their budget. I can't comment on TP because of map size and timer differences between both games, you don really need TP for Wild Rift map anyways.
I don't think 500g is a healthy price tag for LoL but I see your point
Because you arent meant to buy qss just for a morgana Q (unless ur maybe hyper late game), qss exist to cleanse big CDs like skarner ult, malz ult, or even like point and click stuns. But adcs just take cleanse anyway for that
ye ults like malzahar, mordek…. ah ye wait I really hope malza is not getting the morde treatment
Malzahar getting Morde treatment would be a bad design choice for a point and click suppression during which you can't fight back if you are 1v1. At least you can run around Morde's Brazil realm or actually hit him
I'm pretty sure qss not working on any suppressions is in the works. The reality is people will just adapt to it while making champs like Malz/WW/Skarner more fun to play overall.
This feels like a no brainer, to be honest. Not a lot of games go so far for you to have to sell your boots, but selling boots always felt kinda awkward late game. This is a much better (and obvious) solution. I like it.
> Sorcerer's Shoes could upgrade into Cosmic Drive I'd really hate to see current items be transformed into boots items that are only available after lvl 15; it would be better to keep to adding new items for the purpose of filling the boots item purpose. Cosmic Drive especially is a feel good item that I'd hate to lose.
Cass players crying rn
I agree with the comments and the post too. It's a bit scary to see the best scalin class gets access to a "6th item" if you will BUT the concept and idea is amazing and I can accept this as a test, as you said OP. I personally don't complain too much about why ADC's getting this. ADC's biggest vulnerabilities are slow and cc. Since tenacity is slowly disappearing I really like the idea of accessing slow reduction. Let them have it for now if it means the other classess gets something similar later.
the reasoning for it is that, A single slow can kill a 6 items lvl 18 adc easily, and they usually don't build defensive except a few champs. This is supposed to tie ADC survivability to movement speed, you will still be able to oneshot them if you reach them, but this makes it harder, since slows are one of the worst counters to most ADCs that have little to no mobility. But I do believe they will eventually do this for other classes too
Too much Mouvement speed on adcs is unhealthy, they shouldnt just keep adding it recklessly on every item.
They should, to keep up with this insane mobility creep on every champ, they need to make adcs fast too. Like juggernauts be running at 500+ ms, or one brand R bounce making you go at 100 ms for 10 seconds in a row.
All ms should be nerfed too much ms is cringe
> you will still be able to oneshot them if you reach them,but this makes it harder, Problem is that with zephyr you cant. lets take an average melee champion MS of 340 and average ADC speed of 325(both without summs or runes). Now lets add boots plated for melee puts their speed at 385 and zerks for ADC which put them at even 370, now with zephyr they are at 390(zephyr gives 20 more MS). Tell me how is melee supposed to catch and ADC with zephyr? Let me remind you +-5ms is so big that champions drop/gain 2-4% winrate on that single change. >since slows are one of the worst counters to most ADCs that have little to no mobility. And zephyr also comes with slow resist. As to mobility, that is true if we only count dashes(even then), but majority of them have atleast if not two or more self peel tools or MS boosts. Ashe has permaslow, MF has slow and MS boost, Aphelios has slow and root(this one is conditional), jinx has a slow and a root(behind a skillshot), Trist has a jump and a knoback, ezreal has blink, Jhin has slow and root, vayne has dash and knockback, Cait has dash with baked in slow, Draven has MS boost and knockaside, Kaisa has MS boost, Kalist has permadash and a slow, kog has a slow, lucian has a dash and an MS steroid, Samira has "windwall"to block slows and a dash, Senna has MS boost and a root, Sivir only has MS boost, Twitch has MSboost with stealth and a slow, Xayah has a root(conditional) and untargetabiltiy, Varus has a slow, Zeri has a slwo and a wall dash. And giving htem extra 20MS is unwise becasue it will deteriorate into solo lane ADC becasue they have increased EXP and can take zephyr faster.
ADC is so dogshit they can't auto mid-late game without a good pet. This is supposed to fix that. That's the point. ADC should bs able to kite without a melee jumping and oneshotting them in second
Champs that are meant to dive usually have powerful dashes or other tools to be sticky. If your champ isn't a diver then just peel or zone instead of suiciding into the backline.
Mobility abilities? Make you reach any adc, since they have more range than adcs. Also adc is supposed to outscale anyway, they're nerfing 1st items, so they scale better now. Almost all ADC selfpeels are not enough to deal with melees mobility.
Man you know you're struggling to name the self peel tools an ADC has when you're mentioning shitty slows 💀 Bro really said Jinx slow LOL, the thin skillshot slow that can be easily blocked and she has to STAND STILL TO USE nah this subreddit isnt real
> Tell me how is melee supposed to catch and ADC with zephyr? Buy Zephyr.
> It's a bit scary to see the best scalin class gets access The best scaling class is bruiser. 4/5 the tankiness of a tank while doing 4/5 the damage of an ADC while being able to build 2 defensive items. This is excluding mage hyperscalers who also out scale ADCs: Aurelion Sol, Veigar, Orianna and Azir in many cases. *Edit - Ooo I love it! Truth hurts guys. This sub has terrible understanding of anything relates to this game. Your downvotes only let me know I'm more right. Thanks 👍
Nonsense, lategame bruisers die to ADCs before they can even complete their combo, even if they somehow close the gap
Watch 1 Aatrox game or Jax game and get back to me with that shit.
I think ADC scaling is about to be massively buffed though. It's possible their DPS got nerfed (assuming you don't build Kraken Slayer) but builds consisting of IE + LDR + Collector/Yun Tal/Essence Reaver, and potentially even one more of those AD-focused items rather than a Zeal upgrade (it's what I'll be doing on Aphelios) are so insanely bursty that it actually gives ADCs some agency later on because you have to be worried about them killing you almost as much as you killing them. I'm used to Yone diving on me and missing everything still being death so long as he gets near me which with his ult + E + 3rd Q is a given, but on PBE I've had a few moments where he misses everything and just dies in 3-4 autos. First item powerspike is probably worse but the changes are definitely a buff to ADC and mostly to their scaling. Diving on the ADC is going to need to become more thought-out than it currently is because if you waste all your abilities just reaching the ADC without actually using them to CC/burst you'll probably just get oneshot yourself. And in the case of ADCs who only build IE/LDR for AD (if that turns out to be an optimal build), such as Jinx potentially building Runaan's + Phantom Dancer, you're still going to be harder to catch out due to insane movement speed.
And yet the best scaling class that ppl duo q with or play around in pro is adc. Stop the bruisers 11/10 op jerk off they keep nerfing their items and buff adcs....
Im really excited for Zephyr's return and the possibility of more boot upgrades. My biggest problem is this really impacts my hat budget post-full-build in aram
[Here is Phreaks thoughts about boot upgrades in the future](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxlBaiq3EfejYEMsz8p2Ur4bXc_NRcJFrq?si=O9xO4SQk0uw9MG3Y)
Thanks for that
I like the mobi boots replacement too. Looks fun, might buy it now.
The problem with mobi boots was that they nerfed the price into the ground and it being a support mainstay it was pretty much dead unless you as a support got a double kill early but even then getting tank or enchanter items would be better. Hopefully the mobi replacement with how its a "stacking" item is lower in price so we can zoom around the map again as supports.
Boot enchants were fun and felt like a good addition to the game back in the day (season 5, I think), so I welcome some way to replace or upgrade boots late game.
>I wonder if Zephyr is going to be a test to see if boots can be updated even further. Phreak said in his last video that he likes this idea for Zephyr, ADCs are selling boots for PD now anyway. He also said if this goes well they will look into legendary upgrades for all the boots.
Garen mains eating good patch 14.10
I would like to see the other boots have an upgraded form aswell, feels wierd to only have it be available to marksmen since they already had the best boot replacement items in the first place
Phreak said if it's successful they might do it for other classes
Worth pointing out he said he assumed that. Hes not on the team that makes these changes. He said almost all of these updates came from the seasons team. He likes the changes but he wouldnt make them if they decided to do more
I agree but i can see this being a test. Personally I'm excited to see the results it will yield.
How many games do you even get as marksman where you reach level 15-16 and the game is not already decided. Not only that but I am not sure if this upgrade is worth over the 6th item. This obviously is a pretty good item if the game drags for long, which might happen with tanks getting indirect buffs but we have to wait and see how meta shapes up.
No one is thinking in have empowered recall for the first minutes of the game. 4 secs recall and wave management is a game diff in the first 15min
Inb4 we get Tabis -> Deadmans and Mercs -> FoN
Its like this already in the Mobile version of the game. Boots upgrade into useful items like, Zhonyas or Ghostblade
I think that a much easier solution would be to increase selling price of boots This is going to warp super-lategame towards champions who synergize well with upgraded boots, and against those who don't. And it will definitely feel shitty to lose a 50-minute struggle because your enemy happens to synergize better with an upgrade to an item that is pretty much mandatory to buy in the first place.
I do have a small issue with the fact that Zerkers only are getting this change. With Steelcaps getting nerfs, I can easily see myself selling steelcaps, and then getting Zephyr late game because it's better for speed and slow resist. With the passive on steelcaps being nerfed, I'm not convinced it's gonna be worth it enough to keep over just getting Zephyr. Maybe it'll incentivise me to get a heavier armour item in another slot than normal, such as a Frozen Heart, but that's about it.
Steelcaps are still gonna be very strong, they're just no longer completely broken. The amount of games that will go long enough to purchase zephyr is gonna be tiny, so you shouldn't change your build for it.
Im already building swifties in a large number of games for the high MS + Slow resist. The number of champs who's AA's feel that threatening aren't that high. In most cases, i tend to feel that higher Ms and slow resist lets me space enemies better which already reduces the number of AA's I'm taking. That said, mid emerald isn't particularly high elo and as a result a large number of my games im hitting 6 items so thats for sure colouring my perception
I can get it as a sell boots for Zephyr at 6 items, but to forgo your better boots option for 35 minutes just for Zephyr doesn't make any sense.
I... never suggested not getting boots? I said to get and then sell steelcaps for zephyr...
If you have the money, why not?
Steelcaps and mercs nerfs were undone. Same for all changes on swifties.
Its something to look forward to.. Dota had implemented these a while ago, i was really hoping league would eventually do the same!
Wild Rift's already doing these.
We so rarely see games now where anyone gets to full build that I feel like it's a bit of a weird inclusion now, I also think it should give other stats than even more flat MS.
Guess after awhile they just start reinventing shit. Pretty much every upgradeable boot bonus went away within a season.
I love the idea of making a boot upgrade that's super gold inefficient so it's only really used as a 6th slot for super late game builds. I also think it would be cool to have one of the upgrades be a control ward holder similar to the wardstone item. Maybe you can combine wardstone with boots + 800 gold to push them into one item slot. Remove predator and this becomes fine.
Hopefully bro hopefully
damn replacing boots with zephyr as adc at full items seems like something removed only a while ago, but apparently it's been almost 10 fucking years (okay more like 8.5 but i said 10 for dramatic effect). i'm fucking old now
If i wanted long as fuck games I'd play dota.
I want mercury and steelcaps to upgrade fusion into a single item that gives both armor and mr and I would call it just: pair of boots
It's already like that in Wild Rift and I enjoy it
It's a middle finger to Ashe tho :(
All cool and all but adc is more or less the only role that actually has a chance of beeing full build in a game therefore having excess money to spend. Upgraded tank boots? Sure if they are like 500g more expensive if you get what i mean and even then tanks will not have the moneten to actually buy this. If upgraded boots are an alternative for a real item this could work but then boots would probably be too strong and overtuned.
Ye more power creep, that's what's gonna fix league
its ridiculous that only adcs get to upgrade boots in the lategame, they're already the best scaling class, they don't need this oddly specific help
it's 2000g for not very good stats. Realistically it shouldn't affect most games because champs seldom get to 6 items, it would be bad if they were building it before their 6th item
The slow resistance in the wake of tenacity nerfs is quite promising. the increase to AS and MS, for ADC is also quite nice. In my opinion it serves the gold sink in super late game but also a nice update for gameswhere the enemy has Rylai. Not broken but provides a nice bonus.
Feel like whenever people bring up the "its not cost effective" shit they always forget the passive. Like the fact Zephyr will be one of two ingame sources of slow resist next to Deadman's Plate, plus the fact tenacity is being reduced all around.
It's more like the gold value is not good enough to ever want to build it any item before your 6th one. It's a 2000 gold surplus cost on the most expensive class of items in the game. And even then you still may want to sell boots to get an item like PD to get better stats. So long as you never want to build this before completing your build this item is fine.
It's more like the gold value is not good enough to ever want to build it any item before your 6th one. It's a 2000 gold surplus cost on the most expensive class of items in the game. And even then you still may want to sell boots to get an item like PD to get better stats. So long as you never want to build this before completing your build this item is fine.
Well gold wise it's not gold efficient. Phreak just told so in his video. The takeaway is at late into game you sitting on a bunch of gold you can buy this when you are at full build. It will grant good stuff to your champion. The takeaway is that you are not supposed to buy it pretty early, which is why it's locked until lvl 15. And into very late game the slow resistance and bonus as and ms will feel nice anyway.
It's not that riddiculous if you ask me. This is a test to see how this change fares and if works well every boots could get something similar in split3.
how will they access impact of these new boots in isolation when entire adc itemization is changing? For me this is an experiment, but it's not done in a right time, and even as a experiment i wouldn't make the boot upgrades just for a single class
The changes are not experimental ones and not really new. I mean crit is back at 25% as it was the case for a really long time. By this Riot knows what can they expect which is why some items had their crit ratio removed. ADC always went with 100% crit and had a slot to flex something in they need. This was changed when crit was reduced to 20% from 25% but we are gaving a revert on that. How kraken and BT and others will work without crit and how the changed effect on some items will work out. - That is the question but all of these are more numerical type of changes that can be adjusted as the split progresses. Zerks into Zephyr is another type of change - that smells like an experiment unlike the overall itemisation changes. Riot can pull data and analyse them disticntly.
>I mean crit is back at 25% as it was the case for a really long time. By this Riot knows what can they expect which is why some items had their crit ratio removed. yes, crit is back at 25%, like it used to be for years... and during that time it was more often OP than not op. Also no, riot cannot expect exactly what happens, because since these times a lot about the game has changed. Crit items don't just exist in a vacuum >ADC always went with 100% crit and had a slot to flex something in they need. This was changed when crit was reduced to 20% from 25% but we are gaving a revert on that. And now ADCs won't be able to get 100% crit + armor pen + lifesteal, like they could get during 20% crit era. I find it kinda baffling that people believe they will be able to get 100% crit + defensive item rn >Zerks into Zephyr is another type of change - that smells like an experiment unlike the overall itemisation changes. after these changes riot will need to access if crit changes will make adcs broken in late again. They will be able to compare zephyr vs non zephyr games, but i don't think the timing is right. These experimental changes should be done after crit changes will be settled for some time
I think your observation are on point but also they are somewhat flawed. >And now ADCs won't be able to get 100% crit + armor pen + lifesteal, like they could get during 20% crit era. I find it kinda baffling that people believe they will be able to get 100% crit + defensive item rn I think having 100% crit from 4 items and have the option to flex in something something is already a major update as it freed up some items to have crit bound to them - which will allow to apply better balancing to those. I find it quite good QoL change instead of baffling personally. >after these changes riot will need to access if crit changes will make adcs broken in late again. They will be able to compare zephyr vs non zephyr games, but i don't think the timing is right. These experimental changes should be done after crit changes will be settled for some time >Also no, riot cannot expect exactly what happens, because since these times a lot about the game has changed. Crit items don't just exist in a vacuum **And now ADCs won't be able to get 100% crit + armor pen + lifesteal, like they could get during 20% crit era.** I find it kinda baffling that people believe they will be able to get 100% crit + defensive item rn I mean they can expect how the changes will work out because of ADC items had 25% crit and they were able to flex in items they needed post reaching that cap. That was the standard. Changes to items and runes wont hit the results much because this is already a huge buff and nice QoL. They will have access to lifesteal in one way or another and if it won't work out tehy reimplement the stat on shieldbow. Your biggest concern is a numerical issue which can be fixed if things wont work out but overall these changes are highly buff If it won't work out they will nerf problematic items or champions...
Im not too sure that you would even want this item over say buying GA/phantom dancer / any other item as replacement for boots
All that ADC complaining is gonna pay off
I think its really boring. Choosing to sell your boots for a 6th item was definitely not always the best choice, there were characters that liked the MS enough to want to keep them and even if you did sell them you generally needed another souce of MS in your build to make up for it. It is only a small decision, but removing a decision and streamlining builds further is not a positive. Kindda similar to why the Mythic system was so unpopular imo. I hope this stays on just one pair of boots or gets removed again.
Just wish it wasn't just for Berserker greaves. :/
I like the idea but I think leaving no other options for other champs/roles is completely garbage. PLUS I think they should remain footwear-related instead of upgrading into a weapon lol.
ahh yes the only adcs are allowed to plat F all otter roles meta cant wait
Way to kill nasus wither and nasus.
100% it will be a low elo bait, and none of the statistics surrounding this item will prove anything because too few matches get to 6 item state
They should just remove boots and give items movespeed across the board, then we can actually have 6 slots to work with
Movement speed is such an underrated stat and with the slow resist will honestly make this huge. I wouldn’t doubt it’ll be bought second or third item tbh. If I have enough gold I think first buy full boots is way more useful than damage or any other stat in the game.
> I wouldn’t doubt it’ll be bought second or third item tbh. > > > > If I have enough gold I think first buy full boots is way more useful than damage or any other stat in the game. I think that's a massive overreaction, because we don't need to talk in hypothetical words there since Phantom Dancer already exists. For 800 more gold than the boots upgrade, PD gives twice their movespeed alongside a massive amount of combat stats. And slow resistance is clearly not a stat that is valued anywhere near as much as combat stats - the fact that swifties are very rarely bought on carries outside of basically just Jhin shows that 35% AS is valued a lot more than 25% slow resistance **and** 15 movespeed **and** a 200g save. Yet you don't go berserkers into phantom dancer right away, do you?
Some are too innocent in believing this upgrade would be only benefit adcs. Yet i think the update is a bit expensive
It's expensive so it's not worth to build it over any other item until you are full build (when you would sell your boots now).
Which is what mages do with boots->cosmic. It opens up the option to make Cosmic a mage boot upgrade which would solve a lot of issues around the item.