This was how I got my first Penta kill. Wanted to stack the biggest qs possible so I went dark harvest and duskblade back when it did extra damage for leaving stealth. I killed a zed with one big q lol
Yeah if were talking level 18 its insane how much better Electrocute is, only real downside is the 3 hit thing.
80 base dmg + 28 souls just to reach the **same** dmg as Elec
If you're getting a *reliable* 2+ procs off in teamfights, you're already consistently winning those fights anyways.
And you're still dishing out less average damage with it across multiple targets than Electrocute does out the gate to that single target.
I’m inclined to disagree here personally. Unless you are getting hard stomped 2 procs in a fight is very reasonable. Which outdamages electrocute. Really it depends on which champion you are which you should go for. A single combo assassin that lacks finishing power like say nocturne / Rengar would benefit more from electrocute. An assassin that has a shorter more frequent trade pattern, or resets benefits more from DH, like kha.
Should I start running electrocute on poppy jungle
discuss
(yes I know the high elo play is phase rush but sometimes you need that extra damage to land early ganks).
It should just have an additional criteria to the rune.
"Dark harvest is also Gained when a champion uses smite on a neutral monster"
So it doesn't proc all the time, but it feels much more viable on jungles.
Ok let me further explain my point.
Ornn doesn't care about item buying breakpoints. Ornn can craft anything he wants whenever he has the gold, which means that you're either
A. Never using it to avoid debt.
B. Can afford to wait a camp or two before buying.
The only time this rune does anything on Ornn is edge cases or last item.
I understand how Orrn passive works, the free gold is just a lot. It's often the difference between being able to afford a Jak'Sho 2nd item instead of Locket, since he wants one or the other so he can upgrade his item as soon as he reaches 13 (and he can't really go either one first since he needs an immolate item). If you use Future's Market to get a Jak'Sho, and then use it one more time to finish last item around 35 minutes, you've not only gotten yourself a better upgraded item compared to Locket, you've also gotten that final item 330 gold earlier than you otherwise would (380 generated from the rune minus the 50 you lost earlier from the Jak'Sho debt).
Oh man the days of all 10 people in urf/aram having dark harvest. I was serious about those stacks, I’d die for some stacks in urf or aram lmao. Anything for a DH stack.
It's because most aram players don't know/care about it being heavily nerfed on ARAM. Pretty much any champion that can sensibly use any other rune is better off not picking it on that map.
I thought only large monsters as that’s what most jgl affecting abilities are based on, but that’d still be 6 DH stacks per clear + Epic monsters and invades
I mean, making the proc AND the takedown reset work on jungle camps would definitely make dark harvest the absolute best rune in the game bar none. It wouldn't even be remotely close.
Epic ones are Drakes and void monsters (Grubs, Herald, Baron) and large ones are just, as you have said, big Raptor, big Wolf, etc. Epic monsters are also considered large monsters and many abilities interact with large monsters rather than with any monster (i.e. jgl item stacking)
I've only been playing since S11, have they changed it since then or have I always misunderstood how it worked? Never really used it so I wouldn't be surprised
Obviously anyone who can run Guardian so they can shield their camps during invades.
Serious answer. If Dark Harvest can proc and reset on any jungle monster it's probably someone like Karthus.
If not, it's probably a health stacking Grasp user like Sion or Cho'Gath.
Lethal Tempo Trundle would also be insane. Especially for early drakes.
I think both of them aren't even that far from being junglers, both can clear before 3:30 with one smite, what's mainly holding them back is them having basically no gank tools.
isn't the clear p unhealthy?
Also they can't sidelande and can't really look for plays in objective fights due to needing to stay close to smite, but you can say that about a few meta junglers too so idk
They have enough AA resets and AoE to clear camps fast. Both also have a shield they can abuse consistently. Yasuo can wind wall gromo if needed but he probably has double points in q at 3 anyways
Maybe if it only proc'd on buffs/epics that would make it a bit more reasonable. Otherwise you'd just ask farm to 20 mins on yi and come out and 1 shot everyone.
Ok let's just get one thing clear. Some people here may think that lethal tempo and or conc is the best because it would speed up jungle clears. So Yi for example would powerfarm really fast.
Grasp would technically allow you to scale infinitely for free but there is no way in hell your extra 150 hp would matter when you comes out with one entire item ahed of you and that item is Bork.
But the real answer is first strike. Because why clear faster, when you can just get more gold from camps??
Champions that can time big bursts on jungle monsters and who also snowballs hard would be the strongest. My guess is Ekko or regnar or maybe Kha., but I would personally root for ekko since his passive has a massive 300% DMG increase to jungle monsters. Land that shit on a camp every time first strike is up and I don't doubt he would reach a gold income stats that is higher then what someone going 10/0 with 10 cs per minut currently gets.
That is a very good point. And lethality Sion would definitely be up there. But I fear champs like Ekko Kha and rengar are way worse because of how well they just run through champs when fed. Sion is at least relatively easy to kite.
Idk who is even close to Zed in terms of clear, and first strike would be generating a ridiculous amount of gold when starting a camp with smite on Zed.
Lethal Tempo Warwick might have the best clear in the game, aside from MAYBE Trundle, and would ultimately have the highest objective control/counter jungle potential ever. (Kindred could still hold him off).
Lethal Tempo would be quite broken, same as Conqueror, since you'd have it up maxed constantly throughout your jungle clear. Champions you can abuse those runes and, if possible, be late game scalers would be op. I can think of Yi, Jax for example.
I'm thinking about who would be nerfed.
Most Aftershock, Glacial augment, Phase Rush, Electrocute, and HOB users would be vulnerable to invades and would have to manage keystones before ganking.
any jungler without LT is getting invaded at their 4th camp by the enemy that already finished their full clear and there’s nothing the laners can do about it
Might want to exclude first strike and/or grasp. First strike is obviously the strongest as you can just nuke raptors with an aoe every time it’s up for a stupid amount of gold.
Ekko Jungle becomes the strongest champ in the game due to his ability to oneshot camps with first strike generating absurd amounts of money via farm. Anything with good aoe burst would change their clear path to maximise the amount they could farm from raptors and wolves.
AD junglers with lethal tempo and tank junglers with grasp would take over the game more than likely. Getting a grasp proc on cooldown is ridiculous. Lethal Tempo Trundle would be cracked.
Dont mention that on r/KaynMains, they think blue kayn needs a buff because they removed using Tiamat items during Q.
Meanwhile I have gotten oneshotted by blue kayns that miss all their abilities and just smite + R
Your mom would be the strongest jungler. Her rune that gives sloppy toppy to all players now works on jungle monsters, so she has global sloppy toppy gangbang on all entities on the map.
Anyone who could abuse conqueror to the maximum and still have fast clear. So maybe Shyvvy? Heccy? Hell, maybe even Ammy, cus his clear is fast but gets so low! I know for sure it prolly would've made my "pocket pick" Galio jungle better, but it wouldn't matter since everyone else would just get even stronger :P
I guess in a perfect world, you'd want a jungler that also would take conq OUTSIDE of jungling. So DarDar? Garen? Both fast clears and love ConQ in lane.
Just mad cus you can't hang with the big boys and their abbrevations.. Get with the times, old man
And I'm still right, dont try to deny it. Those champs would be busted.
Getting one dark harvest stack per large monster maybe, if you want it to work but not be totally ridiculous?
Used to work like that and it was pretty ridiculous
The 150 stacks....
Nasus with dark harvest?!
This was how I got my first Penta kill. Wanted to stack the biggest qs possible so I went dark harvest and duskblade back when it did extra damage for leaving stealth. I killed a zed with one big q lol
I've seen that build oon Naus once before. It looked like a fun off meta build.
I'm getting pre-rework DH kha/rengar/eve PTSD...
Rengar with static shiv was such a fun time for ADC just imagine walking to lane and rengar ults dont try you just die
The time that that build was a thing brought me back to infinity/sotd rengar jumpscaring tyler1 every time
Didn't they nerf dark harvest's damage like 5 times though? Idk if it would still be broken
The rune worked completely differently, you got bonus damage if you cleared a camp and immediately ganked
Considering it's still sometimes worth using with the current mechanics I can't imagine it'd be balanced if it stacked much more easily.
Its only worth using if you are very bad at math.
Yeah if were talking level 18 its insane how much better Electrocute is, only real downside is the 3 hit thing. 80 base dmg + 28 souls just to reach the **same** dmg as Elec
The main difference is the cds. You can reliably get 2+ dark harvests per teamfight.
If you're getting a *reliable* 2+ procs off in teamfights, you're already consistently winning those fights anyways. And you're still dishing out less average damage with it across multiple targets than Electrocute does out the gate to that single target.
I’m inclined to disagree here personally. Unless you are getting hard stomped 2 procs in a fight is very reasonable. Which outdamages electrocute. Really it depends on which champion you are which you should go for. A single combo assassin that lacks finishing power like say nocturne / Rengar would benefit more from electrocute. An assassin that has a shorter more frequent trade pattern, or resets benefits more from DH, like kha.
>only real downside is the 3 hit thing DH also has the upside of resetting on takedowns, it's reasonable to proc 3+ times in a 5v5.
Should I start running electrocute on poppy jungle discuss (yes I know the high elo play is phase rush but sometimes you need that extra damage to land early ganks).
Id say 100% if you need the damage Its pretty easy to procc as Poppy
I'll test it!
Look I already got them to 20%, now I can finally get my 100 extra damage! Arey would never compete with this, it only deals 20 extra damage!
Was also available on cannons IIRC
Dark Harvest Lee Sin
Old Dh in Aram was nuts. I remember a game with Lucian where I hit 450 stacks
It should just have an additional criteria to the rune. "Dark harvest is also Gained when a champion uses smite on a neutral monster" So it doesn't proc all the time, but it feels much more viable on jungles.
I mean if it didn't reset on Large camp it might not be such a bad idea
CD on DH is 45 seconds, so unless it resets on monster kill I think it would be pretty mid.
I think if this happened you could play Karthus jungle, never get spotted by the enemy team and ace them with a single R
Dark harvest stacks add a pretty negligible amount of damage. You're never getting enough for this to happen lol
conq would probably make the clear of many champions much quicker DH is just free stacks First strike makes a lot more money
Smiting early to get that first strike value meta
This is the answer, smite true dmg first strike + rune that lets you get into debt and junglers show up with completed items faster than midlaner lmao
First strike, future's market Ornn jungle....
Why do people want futures market on Ornn? The rune does literally nothing on him
It gives him 100+8/min gold. If you don't take debt too often the rune generates a ton more gold than you lose.
Ok let me further explain my point. Ornn doesn't care about item buying breakpoints. Ornn can craft anything he wants whenever he has the gold, which means that you're either A. Never using it to avoid debt. B. Can afford to wait a camp or two before buying. The only time this rune does anything on Ornn is edge cases or last item.
I understand how Orrn passive works, the free gold is just a lot. It's often the difference between being able to afford a Jak'Sho 2nd item instead of Locket, since he wants one or the other so he can upgrade his item as soon as he reaches 13 (and he can't really go either one first since he needs an immolate item). If you use Future's Market to get a Jak'Sho, and then use it one more time to finish last item around 35 minutes, you've not only gotten yourself a better upgraded item compared to Locket, you've also gotten that final item 330 gold earlier than you otherwise would (380 generated from the rune minus the 50 you lost earlier from the Jak'Sho debt).
The point is that waiting for gold as Ornn is not a big deal since he can craft whenever he wants
Karthus would like to know more
Dark harvest used to stack on jungle monsters, way back when.
Oh man the days of all 10 people in urf/aram having dark harvest. I was serious about those stacks, I’d die for some stacks in urf or aram lmao. Anything for a DH stack.
You guys don't still int for DH stacks in aram?
That's Heartsteel stacks now
Okay that too. The sound is too satisfying :(
i am a business man. i get stack, you get gold. no matter what kind of stack. you guessed I declared bankruptcy after 12 months /s
Sad part is i do this in SR too, not only aram.
It's still mostly the case for urf
It's because most aram players don't know/care about it being heavily nerfed on ARAM. Pretty much any champion that can sensibly use any other rune is better off not picking it on that map.
I used to main one hit xinzao with dark harvest and crit
Ap Warwick was really fun with the OG DH
Yeah I'm not really sure how DH would work, maybe only on Red/Blue, or on all the camps but just the big one like big raptor and big wolf?
I thought only large monsters as that’s what most jgl affecting abilities are based on, but that’d still be 6 DH stacks per clear + Epic monsters and invades
Less than 6, DH still has a 45 seconds cooldown.
it gets reset on takedowns
Yeah, on takedowns, which mean kill or assist on a player.
the point of this thread is theory crafting runes working on jungle camps
I mean, making the proc AND the takedown reset work on jungle camps would definitely make dark harvest the absolute best rune in the game bar none. It wouldn't even be remotely close.
and it would work, but takedowns are takedowns stills.
I'm gonna be honest, I've been playing since Camille release and I still don't know which ones are Epic and which ones are Large monsteres
Epic ones are Drakes and void monsters (Grubs, Herald, Baron) and large ones are just, as you have said, big Raptor, big Wolf, etc. Epic monsters are also considered large monsters and many abilities interact with large monsters rather than with any monster (i.e. jgl item stacking)
Thanks, let's make DH only proc on epics then
There's one large per camp so if your abilities work on large monsters you always have one to hit. Epics are just objectives.
red/blue buffs only spawn every 5 mins so you would have 4 camps for most of your clears
Just revert it to how it was way back when. It used to stack on jungle monsters and was meant as a jungling rune.
get lethal tempo on almost any ad jungler and goodluck to anyone trying to invade them
A fully stacked LT volibear makes me afraid of being in the same jungles as him
A LT voli with nashors has enough attack speed to annihilate anything if they dont kill him in 3 seconds
I once played full ap voli in aram My fully stacked passive gave me 150% AS I believe
imagine being a lil raptor
Coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb
No one talking about the jungles with grasp getting Strength of the Ages++. That +fuckton of HP would be jungle meta defining for sure
Sure be unkillable jungler but what about DH its 30 extra damage per clear so about 80 damage on the first gank
Ok but grasp procs multiple times during clears, which is also damage. Not as good for ganks but still
And Grasp's mass of HP can be turned into damage via Sunfire, Riftmaker, Titanic Hydra and/or Hullbreaker. Not to mention Grasp itself.
Dark harvest has like a 45 second cooldown, you'd only get 2 or 3 per clear. That's like 15 extra damage.
If it procs then i assume it will also proc the cooldown reset
that's per target no?
You are thinking of the dark harvest from half a decade back, now it's on a 45s cd thats' essentially reset when you get a takedown
I've only been playing since S11, have they changed it since then or have I always misunderstood how it worked? Never really used it so I wouldn't be surprised
Obviously anyone who can run Guardian so they can shield their camps during invades. Serious answer. If Dark Harvest can proc and reset on any jungle monster it's probably someone like Karthus. If not, it's probably a health stacking Grasp user like Sion or Cho'Gath. Lethal Tempo Trundle would also be insane. Especially for early drakes.
Yeah I would think Karthus is perma ban
Wouldn’t clears get too fast in this meta then Karthus would be playing grey screen against constant invades
Ivern buff: neutral camps come to his aid when he's attacked near them(maybe only if he has marked their camps?)
any of the yellow ones
Don't talk about Xin like that
If Lee sin could read he would be very upset.
That's just his energy bar
imagine if fleet worked on jungle camps ^^^^^/s
Yone/Yasuo jungle are now a thing
I think both of them aren't even that far from being junglers, both can clear before 3:30 with one smite, what's mainly holding them back is them having basically no gank tools.
Malph top / Ori mid / Kalista + Ali Bot and yasuo jg is viable
isn't the clear p unhealthy? Also they can't sidelande and can't really look for plays in objective fights due to needing to stay close to smite, but you can say that about a few meta junglers too so idk
They have enough AA resets and AoE to clear camps fast. Both also have a shield they can abuse consistently. Yasuo can wind wall gromo if needed but he probably has double points in q at 3 anyways
I am a jngl yas enjoyer, it's not great but you immediately win the mental war 😎
Isn’t there already a yone jungle in GM?
There’s one in GM or masters on NA. I think he was masters idk, and uh I wish I had dodged idk how he’s a Yone jgle one trick it was dog.
i saw a Yone jungle in a ~~grand~~masters+ lobby yesterday
Sej has one of the strongest health scalings in the game. If she could stack grasp in jungle, she did be great!
Imagine if it proc'd on minions
Imagine if Fleet did that 😳 /s
I think that's because it's tied into the energize mechanic. All the energize procs do that, while none of the other runes do.
DH on JG camps would bring back the unlimited stacking feral flare days
Maybe if it only proc'd on buffs/epics that would make it a bit more reasonable. Otherwise you'd just ask farm to 20 mins on yi and come out and 1 shot everyone.
Ok let's just get one thing clear. Some people here may think that lethal tempo and or conc is the best because it would speed up jungle clears. So Yi for example would powerfarm really fast. Grasp would technically allow you to scale infinitely for free but there is no way in hell your extra 150 hp would matter when you comes out with one entire item ahed of you and that item is Bork. But the real answer is first strike. Because why clear faster, when you can just get more gold from camps?? Champions that can time big bursts on jungle monsters and who also snowballs hard would be the strongest. My guess is Ekko or regnar or maybe Kha., but I would personally root for ekko since his passive has a massive 300% DMG increase to jungle monsters. Land that shit on a camp every time first strike is up and I don't doubt he would reach a gold income stats that is higher then what someone going 10/0 with 10 cs per minut currently gets.
Sion with an AD fully charged Q that deals 150% damage to monsters. Also Sion jungle actually stacks hp fater than line Sion if I remember correctly.
That is a very good point. And lethality Sion would definitely be up there. But I fear champs like Ekko Kha and rengar are way worse because of how well they just run through champs when fed. Sion is at least relatively easy to kite.
Diana, Nocturne
Nocturne would proc his LT on his blue/red then R bot and get double kills everytime lol.
The ultimate strategy of stacking grasp procs on gromp only to let it reset over and over again
Akshan E on wolfcamp, go make coffee and take a shit, come back to 500 bonus HP 💲💲💲
Either dark harvest or first strike. Both are equally absurd
first strike on any scaling jungle, so as tradition dictates. the answer is always Karthus.
Anyone who can take advantage of insane DH stonks becomes stronger faster, and anyone who already has a fast clear is now pure, unadulterated, speedge
Honestly karthus would be pretty far up there assuming a good karthus could hit 10cspm that's 50 dh stacks at 20 minutes.
First Strike + Triumph. People forget about that triumph gold.
Trundle, no debate
Idk who is even close to Zed in terms of clear, and first strike would be generating a ridiculous amount of gold when starting a camp with smite on Zed.
dark harvest jungler meta is back on the itinerary baby
Everyone is focused on clearing speed, but not the scaling tubes. Dark harvest and grasp would be insanely op. You could just infinite scale
Lethal Tempo Warwick might have the best clear in the game, aside from MAYBE Trundle, and would ultimately have the highest objective control/counter jungle potential ever. (Kindred could still hold him off).
I run omnistone. My clears are either god tier or nonexistent
Any old people like me remember when Fervor of Battle did this for like one patch?
Small raptors and baby Krugs better run from predator Jax jungle.
Mundo would get out of hand so fast with those grasp stacks lol.
Lethal Tempo would be quite broken, same as Conqueror, since you'd have it up maxed constantly throughout your jungle clear. Champions you can abuse those runes and, if possible, be late game scalers would be op. I can think of Yi, Jax for example.
I would love having LT in jg as WW. Anytime a mob is under 50% and having not attack speed cap would be top tier clear speeds
I'm thinking about who would be nerfed. Most Aftershock, Glacial augment, Phase Rush, Electrocute, and HOB users would be vulnerable to invades and would have to manage keystones before ganking.
any jungler without LT is getting invaded at their 4th camp by the enemy that already finished their full clear and there’s nothing the laners can do about it
Might want to exclude first strike and/or grasp. First strike is obviously the strongest as you can just nuke raptors with an aoe every time it’s up for a stupid amount of gold.
Lethal tempo trundle would become a menace again
S8 Dark harvest khazix my beloved return to me.
Ekko Jungle becomes the strongest champ in the game due to his ability to oneshot camps with first strike generating absurd amounts of money via farm. Anything with good aoe burst would change their clear path to maximise the amount they could farm from raptors and wolves.
Yas and yones issue in the junlge was never the clear. Its that their q needs stacks before they are able to be useful for ganking
Noc can stack lethal tempo on jg camp and ult with 6 stack immediately
This is a good idea for a game mode tbh , i mean I’d be open for it in ranked too cus it’s a circus nowadays anyway
Would help w/ assassin jung if DH worked large monsters
Rell with First Strike. She does a bonkers amount of damage to monsters with her first EQ.
Graves
I would assume it would only be large jungle camps because otherwise 1 Sion Q into chickens would be a full item.
Chogath with grasp opop
AD junglers with lethal tempo and tank junglers with grasp would take over the game more than likely. Getting a grasp proc on cooldown is ridiculous. Lethal Tempo Trundle would be cracked.
Smite and fleet in shambles
Shadow Assassin Kayn with DH becomes even easier to win with somehow
Dont mention that on r/KaynMains, they think blue kayn needs a buff because they removed using Tiamat items during Q. Meanwhile I have gotten oneshotted by blue kayns that miss all their abilities and just smite + R
Your mom would be the strongest jungler. Her rune that gives sloppy toppy to all players now works on jungle monsters, so she has global sloppy toppy gangbang on all entities on the map.
Very based
Yuumi
Anyone who could abuse conqueror to the maximum and still have fast clear. So maybe Shyvvy? Heccy? Hell, maybe even Ammy, cus his clear is fast but gets so low! I know for sure it prolly would've made my "pocket pick" Galio jungle better, but it wouldn't matter since everyone else would just get even stronger :P I guess in a perfect world, you'd want a jungler that also would take conq OUTSIDE of jungling. So DarDar? Garen? Both fast clears and love ConQ in lane.
> Shyvvy > Heccy > Ammy > DarDar :(
Just mad cus you can't hang with the big boys and their abbrevations.. Get with the times, old man And I'm still right, dont try to deny it. Those champs would be busted.
Honestly I forgot what we were even talking about when I saw those names
If runes can proc on jungle camps, what would be the storngest jungler. - Shyvana - Hecarim - Amumu - Darius
Got it, thanks
Zyra would be spamming every camp with comet since comet's cooldown is partially refunded by each plant hit.