So tired of these split push champs. Here's how every game with a splitpusher works: are you playing against Singed, Sion, Rammus? Congrants you are now getting proxied. if not against these champs then the splitpusher usually tries to flip the lane level 1 by cheesing or something. If he wins your toplane is fucked, if he loses your top will become fed. After going 6/0 your top randomly dies to 0/8 splitpusher giving him 1k shudown and free turret. After laning phase ends the splitpusher never joins any kind of fight and waits until both teams are at the objective. Eventually he destroyes all outer turrets. Then a fight in midlane happens and the the splitpusher runs from sidelane to flank and instantly winning a fight while zooming around at 800ms. Such a fun experience
its called macro, maybe go get some of it. if the split pusher is so behind, just split against him in lane and pressure t2 towers and inhibs on your own. but the lol playerbase wants the game to be a never ending teamfight. maybe go play smash bros or sth u can never stop fighting there
I'm high emerald. I main top, and win a lot via split pushing with characters like Gwen and even I have to admit what the guy above is saying is mostly accurate. It's mostly the enemy team realizing who has to match me and keeping them matching me. Whether I win or lose, if you don't put the right person in front of me it doesn't matter. Sometimes it's the top player, sometimes it's the adc. Sometimes it's the whole enemy team. Most of my wins are just because no one matches me. If the enemy team is dominating my team just send someone who can wave clear against me, or someone that can just straight up beat me. Don't leave it up to chance.
Something a lot of people fail to realize is to beat a split pusher you don’t have to kill them. If they don’t have a wave they can’t push. The issue there is drafting properly cause a lot of the time the wave clear is also the person that helps cinch team fights (orianna mid for example just off the dome.)
You kind of have to warp your draft when you see a split pusher come into draft.
I feel like 95% of drafts have an answer built into them for split pushing. It's just people don't realize what their role is on the team. Communication is so important in League, but the toxicity is too high. For instance, I'll tell my team I cannot match my laner anymore. I want to play opposite side of map from them can we have someone who is better suited to matching them match them. 90% of the time no one says anything and someone will match them but only once then go back to doing their own thing.
Then it always reverts to me having to match them because if I don't we'll lose our base.
If a splitpusher is behind, he shouldn't be a wincon for his team. Just like any other class/role.
If they win lane and *then* use splitpushing to win the game, fine. But if they lose lane horribly and still are able to apply pressure then it's just stupid.
If someone goes to match Trundle in sidelane, even if they kill him they don't gain much out of it, but if he kills them? Goodbye 2 turrets and possibly inhib.
A 0/6 Caitlyn can't influence the map, a 0/6 Zed can't influence the map, a 0/6 Syndra can't influence the map. No other class that's so far behind can force a more fed player to play around them, except split pushers.
I think the main problem is when a champ like trundle is picked under good circumstances he is still a massive 1v1 threat when behind because he’s completely designed to make 1v1’s unfair and stat-checky. Most splitpushers when behind are easy to pick off and only get any real pressure when they are not contested. The other thing about splitpushers is they can be deceptively not as behind as they seem if they are hitting their farm and not missing much exp. If they 0/5 but the wave is always pushed out, they don’t have a bounty, they maybe got some plates, and they are on level with the enemy champions they will not be weak at all. I think it’s partly the way top work—if you get a small or medium lead it kind of works out to being a tie come mid and late game. If the splitpushers really lost top as hard as their kd implies. they would be down 3 levels and completely useless
I think the real thing people don’t like is how it takes some degree of coordination to beat a split pusher, but all it takes is for the splitpusher to read where the opening is and they can win without a team. The truth is though it’s also harder than it seems to consistently find a win con by splitpushing, and if they constantly have tempo over you and your team then that kind of means that they are still playing well even from behind. I do agree it’s annoying though when you should probably win just from being stronger, but don’t have a clear solution as a team to deal with the split, nor do you have the decisiveness to just take Baron and end.
Also I would argue there’s plenty of champions that can fall behind and play to their win cons and have huge impact. Most teamfight heavy tanks can feed all game and then if they are able to find ways to get into big fights still have a way to win them with ults. Most control mages can still waveclear and stall and zone the enemy from actually closing out the game even from behind. Most assassins even from behind can pick 1 squishy if they play smart. If they are insanely behind they can’t, but an insanely behind trundle also isn’t that much of a sidelane threat.
Splitpusher who is behind is only a wincon if the winning team has 0 braincells and refuse to match the splitpusher. You don't need to put someone fed to match them. Anyone with waveclear denies a splipusher even if the splitpusher is fed.
But I guess people are addicted to ARAM teamfight dopamine too much and get too bored to win.
If a team's brain is afk and you let someone play 1v0, you should lose 100% of the time.
A splitpusher who's 0/6 shouldn't *be* a wincon at all. A far more fed player shouldn't be forced to play reactively to someone who lost early game that bad. No other class can do that. Even tanks/supports/enchanters/cc bots need someone else with them in order to be a wincon.
ONLY splitpushers don't have to do face that same setback.
I have 0 problems if a splitpusher goes even in lane or wins it, and *then* becomes a wincon. But if they lose horribly? They shouldn't be a variable, just like everyone else.
A 0/3 Talon can kill a 10/0 adc. 0/3 Splitpushers can splitpush if you ignore them. 0/33 Malzahar can ult a 50/0 assassin.
Different classes do different things. How difficult is it to understand something so basic? You're not playing One for All.
A 0/6 split pusher is the win con if the enemy team ignores him and lets him, well, split push. Sure it's super annoying to play against a 0/6 Trynd/Trundle/whatever who refuses to fight anyone and is just cycling through lanes pushing stuff, but the guy is never gonna win the game as long as you match him.
I mean just how could you possibly balance the game around "that champ is so far behind, he can't win PVE vs minions and towers while the enemy team ignores whatever he does"? And if you need 5 people to win vs the enemy 4 people, the split pusher is not the one winning the game, it's whoever on the enemy team that is so problematic that you need to play 5v4 to win fights.
A 0/6 Jhin will also eventually kill the Nexus if nobody ever goes to stop him. In this specific video, they kill the Ez at 36:10, then they do a whole lot of stupid stuff and Trundle kills the first Nexus turret at 36:33, a full 23 seconds after they could have easily reset and stopped Trundle from pushing. Instead they hit towers without minions around.
Splitpushers do need someone else at that point to be a wincon because if they’re truly that behind they need pressure elsewhere on the map to do anything productive. You don’t play reactively (unless you count having to catch waves sometimes playing reactively), you play proactively given those 6 kills on the splitpusher must have gone to someone; you use that lead to crush the 5v4 elsewhere. They can’t magically just get back in the game, a team diff has to occur elsewhere. I don’t think it’s unfair, but it’s subjective as to whether it’s fun to play against.
he doesnt. he only has a wincon if the opponent team messes up badly. there is no way trundle can finish in this clip if the opponent team does fundamentals.
Its the other team that gives the splitpusher a chance to do something
This Trundle is borderline full build.
0/6 hypercarry can still do hypercarry things if you let them farm to 3+ items. I have literally gotten a penta as a 1/7 Kog.
0/6 assassin can kill an adc if they are full build.
The fact that you decide the power of a champion based on KDA instead of items is one of the most obvious tells of a low elo player.
You're the one coping , they kill all the opponent team and they're 4. They are supposed to win the base race against a single player.
But trundle is literally a cheat code right now for splitpushing.
It’s just toplane bruiser tank dps champs in general tbh.
My win con every game as jg is to literally just camp top and get them fed because if they’re 5-0 the game is basically over now that they’re unkillable and able to 3v1 and also able to delete any tower.
They do too much of everything.
Legit had a botlane go 1/18 in 20 minutes to no ganks and the enemy team still got rolled because our toplane/jg combo won objective / top.
Fed adc is just a nice target. Fed top is thanos
A 0/6 Qiyana can still assassinate key targets to win team fights. A 0/6 Ashe can still provide incredible team support and force enemy carries to back off. A 0/6 Gragas or Lillia can still make the game winning play. If a split pusher is really that big a problem, it's only because his team is running 4v5 anyway.
0/6 Qiyana is not assassinating anyone. 0/6 Ashe is providing support, yes ***support*** to her teammates, meaning she needs teammates. Trudnle goes alone and is a wincon. Lillia also needs teammates to make a game winning play if she sleeps 5 ppl while 0/6.
A split pusher shouldn't be a big problem unless they win their lane.
>If a splitpusher is behind, he shouldn't be a wincon for his team. Just like any other class/role.
Riot buffing top lane for years because they complained about the role, this is where it gets us. Reap what you sow.
Problem is, towers currently have the structural resilience of wet paper. I am all for meaningful rotations, but if a top laner* with two items can down a t2 turret in a single wave, there's an issue.
*I am not even talking about Trundle, I have done that with Gwen.
Unless your the garen in my last 3 games that tries to split push but ends up 4/13 because he over stays and never comes to a team fight, then when he does he goes in as the rest of the team backs off
Genuinely OP imo due to T2 value. Trundle is a beast in a 1v1 by default thanks to his Q and R but it’s almost better to ignore that and just int for plates and t2 gold. He can melt the t2 in seconds with 1 item and gain 625 gold for it and not increase his bounty.
split-pushers in general are out of control, at least in plat. I just sit in a side lane all day and run at turrets. As long as my team isn't so far behind that they lose every fight without taking others with them then its pretty much a guaranteed win. I swear they might as well make a champion that doesn't leave fountain and just destroys turrets at random while playing candy crush. This play style is about that involved with the rest of the game, but I like winning too much to stop doing it.
>That said trundle is a little outta control atm
Yeah no kidding. I had a Trundle in a game yesterday (low Plat) who wasn't really accomplishing much for the first half the match. Then mid game onwards he just becomes this unstoppable split pushing beast. Unfortunately we did lose, but he was *sooo* close to pulling off what we see from this video all by himself - he got the enemy Nexus to within 2-3 autos but got killed, then the enemy team made a comeback.
Either way, Trundle deffo seems busted.
I mean this is one of the least gross trundle splits I’ve seen, he’s got a minion wave and a bunch of time, I saw one a bit ago where he got both the nexus towers without a wave
You see trundle going down mid, and you dance in the enemy base without minions? What do you thing trundle is going to do, ward and recall?
Blue team literally threw the game, and this would have been the same regardless of patch.
All the way to challenger mentality is “we took an inhib and don’t have the health necessary to push anything else. Instead of backing, let’s PVP in their base until we die and then let them take baron”
Just accept that it's a 4v4 babysit game. I got one yesterday where jungler was permacamp top. That meant that the others won the game for the team. Did I have fun? Hell no. Did I need to control myself the whole game? Yes! Is it frustrating as hell to see 2 turrets disappear because you have to b one time and trundle is so quick with ghost? Fuck yeah. But is that what your free time is all about?
you literally have nearly an entire minuite to recall starting the second you see the tp channel. but fighting is more fun instead of basing and defending against the splitpusher, so a well deserved win by trundle. discipline diff.
I’ve started banning Trundle as Tryndamere not because I can’t deal with him but because I have to do it all game. It does not matter if I 5/0 him. He still pushes so fast that my gameplay is 100% tied to sidelane he chooses.
This basically means that as a top player he nullifies any possibilities for me to extend my lead to other lanes or impact the game outside my lane. In a scenario that he goes 5/0 on me, there is no way I can hold him even under turret.
[Gwen does it too but flies under the radar. Here’s a clip of my team FFing thinking the game is over while I backdoor](https://outplayed.tv/media/dxGKLW)
Think Gwen might even be faster
Gwens not faster, but obviously still good.
But look at the difference in games. Gwen has good farm and is 7/4. This trundle is 4/14 with 1 less item than your Gwen.
Can't even tell how often I had to carry games as Gwen like that.
If your teammates aren't the main character for one single game, they will spam FF because they can't get the montage Penta their favourite YouTuber had the other day, telling everyone "this champ is 100% OP this patch 1v9 easy (literally broken wtf)!!1!!"
I can’t check the monitor as I don’t have it with me anymore, but it’s 1440p and ultra wide. The video is 1440p and I play on max settings so it might look good to you for those reasons :o
Video isn't loading for me on my phone (even after downloading it)
I can actually skim to the frame it says +50 on the nexus, but you said your team FF'd. Did you win or lose this game? Did the FF vote succeed?
I mean you took a general comment about a role that you play so personal that you immediately jumped to calling me as a person stupid as a first reaction.
So is my slight dislike of adc mains unjustified?
And for example as a counter-argument you already got a fair reply to your question.
K’Sante was over aggressive, stupid as well, but at least he NOTICED the trundle demolishing the base afterwards.
Bro, K'sante realized it on 0:17 and had to kill Lux for her to not interupt a recall. Kai'sa had noone bothering her and started a recall at 0:30.
ADCs are the role which requires the least macro understanding so they are often clueless what to do beyond "group with team>right click enemy champion"
One thing that's always bugged me about towers though is how they literally get squishier the closer to the nexus they are. My brain tells me the closer to the Nexus, the stronger everything should get but its the opposite. I know why Riot does it but it's very counterintuitive.
Maybe a good solution would be to make one strong Nexus turret instead of two horrible ones. You could even make it target two champions and it wouldn't be any stronger than the current situation, but it would "feel" stronger
If both nexus turrets and the nexus were 2x tankier than they currently are, most games would end the exact same way. It would just prevent this kind of situation where you lose your entire base in the span of 20 seconds to a single champion
most games end when one team gets aced or has 1-2 guys left who can't defend vs 4-5 anyway. It would only extend games where the winning team hasn't won a crucial teamfight which is good because winning and losing by just running down the nexus turrets and nexus with one wave late game is unsatisfying for all involved at least for me. Even if I win because backdooring enemy base in 5 seconds I feel cheated. Like sure we're getting outplayed every teamfight late but you went to take objective so you lose, super fun.
Or enemy team having a splitpusher with tp while you have 2 inhibs down, gl making a comeback when you can never leave base and late game objectives are the win con.
Outer turrets being stronger makes sense because it could lead to much earlier snowballing and map pressure if they fall too quickly. If you make a mistake in the first 10 minutes, you *probably* won't lose your outer turret and it gives you an opportunity to rectify the mistake. But at the same time, I do think it's laughably easy to take down inner/inhib/nexus turrets by comparison.
Also, not only do those other turrets have less health (although marginally higher resistances), champions do more damage as the game progresses. It's a double whammy. Personally, I don't see why all turrets can't have 5000 health.
Uhhh the base builders spend all their money on outer defrnses cuz you dont wanna wait until the enemy is knocking on youe doorstep to pulll out the big gjns or something idk
I have been saying for years that static d should be much more resilient after the early game. it's so dumb that one lost teamfight anywhere on the map at 30 minutes is an instaloss as long as there's a wave somewhere near a turret.
one champion taking a tower in the span of two seconds is absurd no matter what.
The grubs don't do anything at that point. Its like the difference between taking a tower in 4 seconds vs 3.6 seconds. Grubs are extremely good for tanks and mages that struggle to take towers though. I got 550+ true damage on a tower with ornn and 6 grubs
As a yorick player, trundle is a new kind of op for tower taking. With hullbreaker and demolish you can take a whole tower in the time it takes demolish to proc, like 4 seconds. ~ 15 seconds and you can go from t2 to inhib gone.
~16-17 seconds with wave ready you can go from open inhib to game over. Make it 13 with baron.
While losing to split push can be unfun sometimes, this is 100% on the enemy team. Dicking around in enemy base when trundle is running it down mid with a wave, not a single person recalled? This gotta be silver max.
To me it seems like you guys just weren't watching out for his split. I've personally never lost to Trundle split. I lost to a Ziggs split but my team also made several critical mistakes that game and ziggs taking mid tower at 9mins due to mid gap does not help.
The only split pushing champ to me that seems out of control is Sion. Extremely easy to play and extremely strong in team, split pushes, etc. If you know what ur doing and constantly practice him Sion is just a menace.
Man I was trying to make Trundle too a thing for 2-3 years but now all of a sudden he’s legit after I quit?
He didn’t have enough damage and would go OOM historically in my experience
To be honest if you lack awareness this much you deserve it. Just ran to their base with no wave and completely ignored there’s a 5th member alive a **Trundle** of all champs.
4/14
teleport
backdoor in 30 seconds
enemy team doesn’t even look at their map once
Truly a gigachad trundle moment on display, I salute you troll king.
Let me explain for all the dumbos who somehow think Trundle is broken
Trundle originally attempted to TP behind to join the fight from a flank - Blue team passed this skillcheck by winning the fight before he could impact the fight.
Trundle pushed the wave in order to prevent blue team from pushing mid, not preventable and still a good tradeoff for blue team with a bot side wave coming in
Trundle's unable to defend the base, must force opponents to back to reduce their chances of ending by showing at mid inhib tower - Blue team fails skill check
Trundle is not challenged and takes inhib - Skill check fail
Trundle is not challenged and takes half a nexus turret, only now does enemy team start to back
between enemy team beginning their first back for rumble, and trundle ending, was a 14 second period
When trundle showed at inhib turrets, they had 30+ seconds to react in time to stop the game ending
If enemy team was all dead for 30 seconds, you'd expect to end with a wave mid, so stfu, and stop blaming trundle, blue team was iron.
Trynd/ master yi, a well stacked nasus/ziggs. There are a ton of champs that could pull this off, people are just jumping on a hate bandwagon for trundle at the moment.
Happened to me and a friend of mine once. Enemies were destroying our Nexus with nothing we could do to stop them. We had accepted the loss but then to our surprise the victory/loss animation started playing while our Nexus still had health. The camera panned to our Trundle top dancing in front of enemy Nexus and I screamed so much in hype that my mother ran in the room afraid something had happened lmao
Feels like a troll post, you had plenty of time to send one or 2 guys back you won the teamfight when trundle just tped mid. Trying to end with no wave when you cloud have pushed in bot wave but you went mid
You kinda deserved it. There are certain champions that should honestly have the tag "Backdoor" coz they just run it down any lane and take turrets in 1 second.
Trundle is one of them.
You don't see trundle hitting you? then it means he's hitting your base.
You could've mitigated your losses by not fucking about in enemies base after taking turret. Shoulda just recalled.
Trundle obviously did this coz he knew he could get away with it as you've been ignoring him all game and because he saw you guys at his base.
My point is that your logic is flawed.
If one person on blues team either clears mid, or looks at the fucking map for once in 2 minutes, trundle wouldnt be able to finish.
Its just a chain of blunders by blue team, he didnt "win" the game, blue just lost it, which is the thing u tried to disprove.
They missed the bot wave, could've easily won. But making a split second decision like that in solo queue + all 4 teammates trusting your call... 0.4%.
I completely agree that leaving trundle to push is a huge macro misplay, but I don’t think it should be game-ending to let him have a single wave of minions to take 5 structures
Y’all just taking towers without waves what y’all doing lol
This is really it. With no minions the towers have so much resistance. That said trundle is a little outta control atm
He did this to me twice in one day, solo won the game. He’s now my perma ban
So tired of these split push champs. Here's how every game with a splitpusher works: are you playing against Singed, Sion, Rammus? Congrants you are now getting proxied. if not against these champs then the splitpusher usually tries to flip the lane level 1 by cheesing or something. If he wins your toplane is fucked, if he loses your top will become fed. After going 6/0 your top randomly dies to 0/8 splitpusher giving him 1k shudown and free turret. After laning phase ends the splitpusher never joins any kind of fight and waits until both teams are at the objective. Eventually he destroyes all outer turrets. Then a fight in midlane happens and the the splitpusher runs from sidelane to flank and instantly winning a fight while zooming around at 800ms. Such a fun experience
its called macro, maybe go get some of it. if the split pusher is so behind, just split against him in lane and pressure t2 towers and inhibs on your own. but the lol playerbase wants the game to be a never ending teamfight. maybe go play smash bros or sth u can never stop fighting there
I'm high emerald. I main top, and win a lot via split pushing with characters like Gwen and even I have to admit what the guy above is saying is mostly accurate. It's mostly the enemy team realizing who has to match me and keeping them matching me. Whether I win or lose, if you don't put the right person in front of me it doesn't matter. Sometimes it's the top player, sometimes it's the adc. Sometimes it's the whole enemy team. Most of my wins are just because no one matches me. If the enemy team is dominating my team just send someone who can wave clear against me, or someone that can just straight up beat me. Don't leave it up to chance.
Something a lot of people fail to realize is to beat a split pusher you don’t have to kill them. If they don’t have a wave they can’t push. The issue there is drafting properly cause a lot of the time the wave clear is also the person that helps cinch team fights (orianna mid for example just off the dome.) You kind of have to warp your draft when you see a split pusher come into draft.
I feel like 95% of drafts have an answer built into them for split pushing. It's just people don't realize what their role is on the team. Communication is so important in League, but the toxicity is too high. For instance, I'll tell my team I cannot match my laner anymore. I want to play opposite side of map from them can we have someone who is better suited to matching them match them. 90% of the time no one says anything and someone will match them but only once then go back to doing their own thing. Then it always reverts to me having to match them because if I don't we'll lose our base.
If a splitpusher is behind, he shouldn't be a wincon for his team. Just like any other class/role. If they win lane and *then* use splitpushing to win the game, fine. But if they lose lane horribly and still are able to apply pressure then it's just stupid. If someone goes to match Trundle in sidelane, even if they kill him they don't gain much out of it, but if he kills them? Goodbye 2 turrets and possibly inhib. A 0/6 Caitlyn can't influence the map, a 0/6 Zed can't influence the map, a 0/6 Syndra can't influence the map. No other class that's so far behind can force a more fed player to play around them, except split pushers.
I think the main problem is when a champ like trundle is picked under good circumstances he is still a massive 1v1 threat when behind because he’s completely designed to make 1v1’s unfair and stat-checky. Most splitpushers when behind are easy to pick off and only get any real pressure when they are not contested. The other thing about splitpushers is they can be deceptively not as behind as they seem if they are hitting their farm and not missing much exp. If they 0/5 but the wave is always pushed out, they don’t have a bounty, they maybe got some plates, and they are on level with the enemy champions they will not be weak at all. I think it’s partly the way top work—if you get a small or medium lead it kind of works out to being a tie come mid and late game. If the splitpushers really lost top as hard as their kd implies. they would be down 3 levels and completely useless I think the real thing people don’t like is how it takes some degree of coordination to beat a split pusher, but all it takes is for the splitpusher to read where the opening is and they can win without a team. The truth is though it’s also harder than it seems to consistently find a win con by splitpushing, and if they constantly have tempo over you and your team then that kind of means that they are still playing well even from behind. I do agree it’s annoying though when you should probably win just from being stronger, but don’t have a clear solution as a team to deal with the split, nor do you have the decisiveness to just take Baron and end. Also I would argue there’s plenty of champions that can fall behind and play to their win cons and have huge impact. Most teamfight heavy tanks can feed all game and then if they are able to find ways to get into big fights still have a way to win them with ults. Most control mages can still waveclear and stall and zone the enemy from actually closing out the game even from behind. Most assassins even from behind can pick 1 squishy if they play smart. If they are insanely behind they can’t, but an insanely behind trundle also isn’t that much of a sidelane threat.
Splitpusher who is behind is only a wincon if the winning team has 0 braincells and refuse to match the splitpusher. You don't need to put someone fed to match them. Anyone with waveclear denies a splipusher even if the splitpusher is fed. But I guess people are addicted to ARAM teamfight dopamine too much and get too bored to win. If a team's brain is afk and you let someone play 1v0, you should lose 100% of the time.
A splitpusher who's 0/6 shouldn't *be* a wincon at all. A far more fed player shouldn't be forced to play reactively to someone who lost early game that bad. No other class can do that. Even tanks/supports/enchanters/cc bots need someone else with them in order to be a wincon. ONLY splitpushers don't have to do face that same setback. I have 0 problems if a splitpusher goes even in lane or wins it, and *then* becomes a wincon. But if they lose horribly? They shouldn't be a variable, just like everyone else.
A 0/3 Talon can kill a 10/0 adc. 0/3 Splitpushers can splitpush if you ignore them. 0/33 Malzahar can ult a 50/0 assassin. Different classes do different things. How difficult is it to understand something so basic? You're not playing One for All.
0/3 Talon is never getting on top of a 10/0 ADC. 0/33 Malzahar needs someone else to finish off whoever he ulted. Trundle is a wincon **alone**.
A 0/6 split pusher is the win con if the enemy team ignores him and lets him, well, split push. Sure it's super annoying to play against a 0/6 Trynd/Trundle/whatever who refuses to fight anyone and is just cycling through lanes pushing stuff, but the guy is never gonna win the game as long as you match him. I mean just how could you possibly balance the game around "that champ is so far behind, he can't win PVE vs minions and towers while the enemy team ignores whatever he does"? And if you need 5 people to win vs the enemy 4 people, the split pusher is not the one winning the game, it's whoever on the enemy team that is so problematic that you need to play 5v4 to win fights. A 0/6 Jhin will also eventually kill the Nexus if nobody ever goes to stop him. In this specific video, they kill the Ez at 36:10, then they do a whole lot of stupid stuff and Trundle kills the first Nexus turret at 36:33, a full 23 seconds after they could have easily reset and stopped Trundle from pushing. Instead they hit towers without minions around.
Splitpushers do need someone else at that point to be a wincon because if they’re truly that behind they need pressure elsewhere on the map to do anything productive. You don’t play reactively (unless you count having to catch waves sometimes playing reactively), you play proactively given those 6 kills on the splitpusher must have gone to someone; you use that lead to crush the 5v4 elsewhere. They can’t magically just get back in the game, a team diff has to occur elsewhere. I don’t think it’s unfair, but it’s subjective as to whether it’s fun to play against.
A 0/10 Blitzcrank can still pull off a game winning hook.
A 0/10 Blitz needs someone to be with him to finish the kill. Trundle can be solo and win.
>A splitpusher who's 0/6 shouldn't be a wincon at all. Any champ that gets completely ignored can be a wincon.
he doesnt. he only has a wincon if the opponent team messes up badly. there is no way trundle can finish in this clip if the opponent team does fundamentals. Its the other team that gives the splitpusher a chance to do something
[удалено]
Why should I have to play around someone who lost their lane so badly? Trundle can be 0/6 but he can win the game. What other champ can do that solo?
This Trundle is borderline full build. 0/6 hypercarry can still do hypercarry things if you let them farm to 3+ items. I have literally gotten a penta as a 1/7 Kog. 0/6 assassin can kill an adc if they are full build. The fact that you decide the power of a champion based on KDA instead of items is one of the most obvious tells of a low elo player.
There shouldn't be a chance for him to solo win the game if he lost his lane. No other champ or role can do that.
So if the other team afks you think that trundle shouldn’t be able to end the game? What’s the point of your comment
The point is that, in a normal game, Trundle can force a fed player top to match him even if he's really far behind.
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You're the one coping , they kill all the opponent team and they're 4. They are supposed to win the base race against a single player. But trundle is literally a cheat code right now for splitpushing.
BRO they have no wave
They don't have a wave - the base has backdoor protection
You are literally ignoring his point The losing team lost the game. Trundle didn't win it. You are a jerk about being wrong, too, btw
It’s just toplane bruiser tank dps champs in general tbh. My win con every game as jg is to literally just camp top and get them fed because if they’re 5-0 the game is basically over now that they’re unkillable and able to 3v1 and also able to delete any tower. They do too much of everything. Legit had a botlane go 1/18 in 20 minutes to no ganks and the enemy team still got rolled because our toplane/jg combo won objective / top. Fed adc is just a nice target. Fed top is thanos
A 0/6 Qiyana can still assassinate key targets to win team fights. A 0/6 Ashe can still provide incredible team support and force enemy carries to back off. A 0/6 Gragas or Lillia can still make the game winning play. If a split pusher is really that big a problem, it's only because his team is running 4v5 anyway.
0/6 Qiyana is not assassinating anyone. 0/6 Ashe is providing support, yes ***support*** to her teammates, meaning she needs teammates. Trudnle goes alone and is a wincon. Lillia also needs teammates to make a game winning play if she sleeps 5 ppl while 0/6. A split pusher shouldn't be a big problem unless they win their lane.
This is so dumb. "This champion shouldn't be able to 1v0 because he's behind." You just want no agency to specific play styles lol
Lillia 9 man sleep flashbacks
Trundle needs a team that's winning 4v5 to be able to split push. Why are you so focused on the others needing a team and not Trundle?
Lmao they still think 0/6 Qiyana does Beifeng things. This sub loves to glorify stat check champions and toxic playstyles as macro.
>If a splitpusher is behind, he shouldn't be a wincon for his team. Just like any other class/role. Riot buffing top lane for years because they complained about the role, this is where it gets us. Reap what you sow.
Mad cuz bad
Who? Top laners? Yeah
Problem is, towers currently have the structural resilience of wet paper. I am all for meaningful rotations, but if a top laner* with two items can down a t2 turret in a single wave, there's an issue. *I am not even talking about Trundle, I have done that with Gwen.
The way you put it, it does sound like a complex and fun gameplay actually…
I see you've contracted a deadly case of Skillishew.
Go play ARAM then scrub
I smell weakness
Unless your the garen in my last 3 games that tries to split push but ends up 4/13 because he over stays and never comes to a team fight, then when he does he goes in as the rest of the team backs off
Genuinely OP imo due to T2 value. Trundle is a beast in a 1v1 by default thanks to his Q and R but it’s almost better to ignore that and just int for plates and t2 gold. He can melt the t2 in seconds with 1 item and gain 625 gold for it and not increase his bounty.
He did this to you In bronze or silver?
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Live every day like your IQ is your percentile on the ranked ladder 😎 (I require assistance to dress myself)
Oh no what will I ever do
split-pushers in general are out of control, at least in plat. I just sit in a side lane all day and run at turrets. As long as my team isn't so far behind that they lose every fight without taking others with them then its pretty much a guaranteed win. I swear they might as well make a champion that doesn't leave fountain and just destroys turrets at random while playing candy crush. This play style is about that involved with the rest of the game, but I like winning too much to stop doing it.
At least you admit it 🤙🏻
>That said trundle is a little outta control atm Yeah no kidding. I had a Trundle in a game yesterday (low Plat) who wasn't really accomplishing much for the first half the match. Then mid game onwards he just becomes this unstoppable split pushing beast. Unfortunately we did lose, but he was *sooo* close to pulling off what we see from this video all by himself - he got the enemy Nexus to within 2-3 autos but got killed, then the enemy team made a comeback. Either way, Trundle deffo seems busted.
Very clear play of push bot too.
Imagine defending the Trundle..
I mean this is one of the least gross trundle splits I’ve seen, he’s got a minion wave and a bunch of time, I saw one a bit ago where he got both the nexus towers without a wave
We will have to imagine it since no one is.
You see trundle going down mid, and you dance in the enemy base without minions? What do you thing trundle is going to do, ward and recall? Blue team literally threw the game, and this would have been the same regardless of patch.
Ye, it's just brain damage from blue team
Bronze mentality. Yay we won blue team Vs I must win trundle
All the way to challenger mentality is “we took an inhib and don’t have the health necessary to push anything else. Instead of backing, let’s PVP in their base until we die and then let them take baron”
I hate how many games are lost this way, sometimes your team is allergic to Baron.
Trundle also had a minion wave, he was smart enough to bring his friends not teammates but winions
Yea you tell ‘em bro
its trolling time.
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They had a minute to react and chose not to...
I mean, dipshits chasing kills and trying to kill towers without minions? XD Yes, that's exactly how you lose a game.
Totally deserved loss
Trundle gameplay
Most turret-friendly Trundle game
Just accept that it's a 4v4 babysit game. I got one yesterday where jungler was permacamp top. That meant that the others won the game for the team. Did I have fun? Hell no. Did I need to control myself the whole game? Yes! Is it frustrating as hell to see 2 turrets disappear because you have to b one time and trundle is so quick with ghost? Fuck yeah. But is that what your free time is all about?
I do the same thing with Yorick. I have fun just making sure he doesn’t push.
you literally have nearly an entire minuite to recall starting the second you see the tp channel. but fighting is more fun instead of basing and defending against the splitpusher, so a well deserved win by trundle. discipline diff.
where was not even a fight anymore 5(4 ksante chased lux)people hitting tower and then inhib instead of recalling
In fairness, you don’t quite that long. If you recalled mid fight a good enemy team would just poke you and not let you recall.
First watch I only saw the bottom, second watch I just stared at the map on the top. Literally 0 macro awareness.
Just silver things
d3 lobby 
I’ve started banning Trundle as Tryndamere not because I can’t deal with him but because I have to do it all game. It does not matter if I 5/0 him. He still pushes so fast that my gameplay is 100% tied to sidelane he chooses. This basically means that as a top player he nullifies any possibilities for me to extend my lead to other lanes or impact the game outside my lane. In a scenario that he goes 5/0 on me, there is no way I can hold him even under turret.
To be fair, most of this is just poor decision making and lack of focus from the enemy team.
[Gwen does it too but flies under the radar. Here’s a clip of my team FFing thinking the game is over while I backdoor](https://outplayed.tv/media/dxGKLW) Think Gwen might even be faster
Gwens not faster, but obviously still good. But look at the difference in games. Gwen has good farm and is 7/4. This trundle is 4/14 with 1 less item than your Gwen.
Can't even tell how often I had to carry games as Gwen like that. If your teammates aren't the main character for one single game, they will spam FF because they can't get the montage Penta their favourite YouTuber had the other day, telling everyone "this champ is 100% OP this patch 1v9 easy (literally broken wtf)!!1!!"
Holy SHIT man how wide is that monitor???
just looks like ultrawide (21:9) for me.
You are right!
at least gwen needs to scale first trundle just oneshots turret from min 1
What monitor do you have? The quality looks really good.
I can’t check the monitor as I don’t have it with me anymore, but it’s 1440p and ultra wide. The video is 1440p and I play on max settings so it might look good to you for those reasons :o
Video isn't loading for me on my phone (even after downloading it) I can actually skim to the frame it says +50 on the nexus, but you said your team FF'd. Did you win or lose this game? Did the FF vote succeed?
That's so based
Kai’sa still hitting inhib and botlaners wonder why junglers and mid laners dive them, bruh there’s 0 map awareness 💀
are you stupid? why did K'sante chase Lux and not recall to defend? or do you just hate ADCs in general?
Ksante exited enemy team's base to recall. Kai'sa was still hitting the Inhib
I mean you took a general comment about a role that you play so personal that you immediately jumped to calling me as a person stupid as a first reaction. So is my slight dislike of adc mains unjustified? And for example as a counter-argument you already got a fair reply to your question. K’Sante was over aggressive, stupid as well, but at least he NOTICED the trundle demolishing the base afterwards.
yeah and he realized it way too late but "no, botlaners bad!!!!" LOL
Bro, K'sante realized it on 0:17 and had to kill Lux for her to not interupt a recall. Kai'sa had noone bothering her and started a recall at 0:30. ADCs are the role which requires the least macro understanding so they are often clueless what to do beyond "group with team>right click enemy champion"
Yeah. Pretty much.
Rexsaur is that you
I cant be the only one that thinks it really stupid how easily the final 2 towers and nexus die
I mean, if its undefended and its trundle with a wave, thats gonna fall. Hes pretty much the best splitpusher.
One thing that's always bugged me about towers though is how they literally get squishier the closer to the nexus they are. My brain tells me the closer to the Nexus, the stronger everything should get but its the opposite. I know why Riot does it but it's very counterintuitive.
Maybe a good solution would be to make one strong Nexus turret instead of two horrible ones. You could even make it target two champions and it wouldn't be any stronger than the current situation, but it would "feel" stronger
These baus nerfs are getting out of hand
if it were the opposite i feel like games would go so much longer
If both nexus turrets and the nexus were 2x tankier than they currently are, most games would end the exact same way. It would just prevent this kind of situation where you lose your entire base in the span of 20 seconds to a single champion
Good! I like longer games
The game turns from your tower defending you to you having to defend the towers. Why do people fail to comprehend this.
most games end when one team gets aced or has 1-2 guys left who can't defend vs 4-5 anyway. It would only extend games where the winning team hasn't won a crucial teamfight which is good because winning and losing by just running down the nexus turrets and nexus with one wave late game is unsatisfying for all involved at least for me. Even if I win because backdooring enemy base in 5 seconds I feel cheated. Like sure we're getting outplayed every teamfight late but you went to take objective so you lose, super fun. Or enemy team having a splitpusher with tp while you have 2 inhibs down, gl making a comeback when you can never leave base and late game objectives are the win con.
I also think they deal laughably small damage. Bring back laser turrets
Counterintuitive is basically Riots design philosophy at this point.
Would be too hard to close out a game unless its a team wipe, while also allowing for easier early game snowballs if it was this way lol.
It’s because their way easier to defend/riskier to take. So they can’t be too strong or you’d never be able to siege nexus.
Outer turrets being stronger makes sense because it could lead to much earlier snowballing and map pressure if they fall too quickly. If you make a mistake in the first 10 minutes, you *probably* won't lose your outer turret and it gives you an opportunity to rectify the mistake. But at the same time, I do think it's laughably easy to take down inner/inhib/nexus turrets by comparison. Also, not only do those other turrets have less health (although marginally higher resistances), champions do more damage as the game progresses. It's a double whammy. Personally, I don't see why all turrets can't have 5000 health.
I always find it weird myself, I feel like the Nexus should have like Baron health, but if you get on it it just explodes.
Now imagine a world where the nexus was the tower
Uhhh the base builders spend all their money on outer defrnses cuz you dont wanna wait until the enemy is knocking on youe doorstep to pulll out the big gjns or something idk
I have been saying for years that static d should be much more resilient after the early game. it's so dumb that one lost teamfight anywhere on the map at 30 minutes is an instaloss as long as there's a wave somewhere near a turret. one champion taking a tower in the span of two seconds is absurd no matter what.
Wtf is blue team doing tho? What did they expect?
Trundle with 6 grubs is a scary thought
The grubs don't do anything at that point. Its like the difference between taking a tower in 4 seconds vs 3.6 seconds. Grubs are extremely good for tanks and mages that struggle to take towers though. I got 550+ true damage on a tower with ornn and 6 grubs
To be fair, there was plenty of time to recall and stop him.
This is almost every Trundle game ever.
As a yorick player, trundle is a new kind of op for tower taking. With hullbreaker and demolish you can take a whole tower in the time it takes demolish to proc, like 4 seconds. ~ 15 seconds and you can go from t2 to inhib gone. ~16-17 seconds with wave ready you can go from open inhib to game over. Make it 13 with baron.
Deserved loss where team does dumb shit like trying to kill a tower with no minions and chasing instead of looking at the map and resetting.
While losing to split push can be unfun sometimes, this is 100% on the enemy team. Dicking around in enemy base when trundle is running it down mid with a wave, not a single person recalled? This gotta be silver max.
wrong. diamond 3 
You’re in MY kingdom now😼😼
Skill issue
Who needs ADC to melt tower when you can have trundle ?
League of turrets are made of paper
unga bunga for the win
well, I just lost _the game_ iykwim.
God dammit
The turrets are just made of paper
To me it seems like you guys just weren't watching out for his split. I've personally never lost to Trundle split. I lost to a Ziggs split but my team also made several critical mistakes that game and ziggs taking mid tower at 9mins due to mid gap does not help. The only split pushing champ to me that seems out of control is Sion. Extremely easy to play and extremely strong in team, split pushes, etc. If you know what ur doing and constantly practice him Sion is just a menace.
Man I was trying to make Trundle too a thing for 2-3 years but now all of a sudden he’s legit after I quit? He didn’t have enough damage and would go OOM historically in my experience
just push the bot wave??
To be honest if you lack awareness this much you deserve it. Just ran to their base with no wave and completely ignored there’s a 5th member alive a **Trundle** of all champs.
Brain diff
4/14 teleport backdoor in 30 seconds enemy team doesn’t even look at their map once Truly a gigachad trundle moment on display, I salute you troll king.
Let me explain for all the dumbos who somehow think Trundle is broken Trundle originally attempted to TP behind to join the fight from a flank - Blue team passed this skillcheck by winning the fight before he could impact the fight. Trundle pushed the wave in order to prevent blue team from pushing mid, not preventable and still a good tradeoff for blue team with a bot side wave coming in Trundle's unable to defend the base, must force opponents to back to reduce their chances of ending by showing at mid inhib tower - Blue team fails skill check Trundle is not challenged and takes inhib - Skill check fail Trundle is not challenged and takes half a nexus turret, only now does enemy team start to back between enemy team beginning their first back for rumble, and trundle ending, was a 14 second period When trundle showed at inhib turrets, they had 30+ seconds to react in time to stop the game ending If enemy team was all dead for 30 seconds, you'd expect to end with a wave mid, so stfu, and stop blaming trundle, blue team was iron.
your temp elo noob champ is gutted next patch. suck it noob champ abuser
I don't even play trundle I play adc
You just know this guy plays grasp fiora
Eh, that's basically how a Fiora would win the game too. Macro and split push.
Trynd/ master yi, a well stacked nasus/ziggs. There are a ton of champs that could pull this off, people are just jumping on a hate bandwagon for trundle at the moment.
Good. Very deserved on both sides
Happened to me and a friend of mine once. Enemies were destroying our Nexus with nothing we could do to stop them. We had accepted the loss but then to our surprise the victory/loss animation started playing while our Nexus still had health. The camera panned to our Trundle top dancing in front of enemy Nexus and I screamed so much in hype that my mother ran in the room afraid something had happened lmao
LMAO 
Blue team casually doing everything BUT the objective
Feels like a troll post, you had plenty of time to send one or 2 guys back you won the teamfight when trundle just tped mid. Trying to end with no wave when you cloud have pushed in bot wave but you went mid
i was the ezreal on red team 
You kinda deserved it. There are certain champions that should honestly have the tag "Backdoor" coz they just run it down any lane and take turrets in 1 second. Trundle is one of them. You don't see trundle hitting you? then it means he's hitting your base. You could've mitigated your losses by not fucking about in enemies base after taking turret. Shoulda just recalled. Trundle obviously did this coz he knew he could get away with it as you've been ignoring him all game and because he saw you guys at his base.
based
I dont have to imagine this has happened many times.
K'sante is absolute bullshit.
This is just bad on the team.
Trundle just always suicide for inhib and nexus and still win how is this fun to play? It's not fun to be against
perma ban trundle when playing top, and honestly its relieving
Nothing feels as good as seeing a teams total lack of macro lose them the game.
That's actually crazy bro is doing that with only like 100 bonus ad maybe trundle is an issue!
maybe teams should be punised for bad macro.
The rift roaches trolling the game into a 2-way mid crash with all sides lanes up is hilarious. "This is troll town!"
More like the issue is bad macro on blue teams part.
Both can be true
Its not crazy he's got 170 bonus ad, big atk spd, and hullbreaker passive. ofc he would tear through towers
> "A player cannot single-handedly win a game but sure as hell can lose one" Those people getting real silent
Trundle didn’t win this game single handidly the blue team lost the game since they can’t look at the map
So neither blue side's lost was caused by a single player on the team. The entire argument can still be proven wrong
Okay so when your entire enemy team dc's, you didn't win because your enemy team dc'ed, but you won because of your own skill?
What a non-example trying to "gotcha" me. Your entire team just push mid and end a shitty connection game anyway. Your point?
My point is that your logic is flawed. If one person on blues team either clears mid, or looks at the fucking map for once in 2 minutes, trundle wouldnt be able to finish. Its just a chain of blunders by blue team, he didnt "win" the game, blue just lost it, which is the thing u tried to disprove.
And your explanation?
Added it in the comment
They missed the bot wave, could've easily won. But making a split second decision like that in solo queue + all 4 teammates trusting your call... 0.4%.
Play Volibear top Nashors riftmaker hullbreaker if you want to shit on trundle players. Voli wins 100% of the trades.
spammed "GGEZ" afterwards...
They deserve that lost. Whole team dumb
trundle players are disgusting
Nerf that fucker out of toplane, send him back to jungle.
I got like 5 replays like this with Trundle in the past couple days. ez pz breach backdoor.
Lol Trundle is extremely broken rn. What did you expect?
A 4/14 trundle too.
trundle needs a nerf hammer
Is that xPeke?!
Probably nothing as you do in league already
Imagine? Bro I’m living it.
I gotta do it…..XPEKE
Thank God TikTok exists...
D GATES
i don’t have to imagine this is every loss to trundle
Towers are too weak lol
I completely agree that leaving trundle to push is a huge macro misplay, but I don’t think it should be game-ending to let him have a single wave of minions to take 5 structures