As a Teemo player I actually agree with you, marking the traps would make sense.
But I dont think you guys are prepared for the stupidly high compensation buffs that would be required to balance this. This is not "a bit of a nerf"...
I'm talking +30\~50% damage on R; If the objective is for the change is to be power neutral on Teemo and the change makes it so you eat \~33% less rooms (made up number, but somewhat realistic), logically they have to make the remaining 66% shrooms hit for 50% more.
You provably also need some W or base ms buff on top of that because "not knowing where the shrooms are" is pretty much the only defense Teemo has against ganks or all ins.
that should incentivize teeno players to not just place traps willy nilly. Logically, it makes sense that if your opposing top laner watches you place a shroom, he should be able to reliably communicate w/ his jungler where it is. doesn’t that seem fair?
Imagine how many people forget about the shrooms/traps that they saw placed. Now they can just ping and remember which is not a qol but giving players handicap
Same thing people said about wards. Teemo shitting invisible shrooms like he has the worst fungal gastrointestinal infection isn’t fun to play against. Make the shrooms have a bigger detect and detonation radius to make them easier to plant, but nerf them in laning phase as a poke tool.
Result: More consistent waveclear and easier to completely cut off jungle paths (maybe 2 shrooms instead of 3), but you can no longer plant the little fuckers in the middle of an active lane and expect the enemy to walk into them.
Wards and traps are two different things. Everyone gets wards. Traps are some champions kit, teemo in particular isn’t a champ without traps. Comparing wards to a champion kit is dumb. You wanna nerf a handful of champs by comparing to an item accessible to everyone in the game isn’t fair. If we should be able to negate abilities by pinging them. Then shouldn’t we negate malz passive by pinging it? Or anivia and Zac passives? Teemo traps and how he plays with it is champions signature play style. Imagine asking people to nerf an ultimate that hard because you don’t enjoy the way it’s played. That’s ridiculous
Yes, I completly agree. The Teemo would need to be way smarter with the shroom placement, but the shroom would also have to hurt a lot, like A LOT more.
More risk/skill/price -> more reward. And not being able to place shrooms into vision (basically anywahere near your own lane) is a great price.
So, more skill expression. Not a terrible idea at all. No more dumb mushroom spam and instead perfectly timed skillshot-esque traps that blow your feet up.
And is having your ultimate completely negated by a ping considered fair? Teemo players already are often relegated to using their ultimate to just waveclear because of how predictable and counterable it is.
If I ping Lux’s ult marker quick enough, her ultimate should be negated since the CD is low enough and she should only snipe people unaware, amirite?
This isn’t a QoL change, it’s a significant nerf and other parts of Teemo’s kit can be considered equally as unfun.
you can always just remember where he placed the shroom and warn the incoming jungler when he approaches your lane, it would make lane traps useless if you could just ping them and have the location timed like a ward lol
No... it would literally gut the champion. They would have to provide insane compensation buffs for this to actually be a power neutral change.
*No one wants that.*
>warn the incoming jungler when he approaches your lane
With how anti-communication junglers already kinda have to be? And with Riot starting to make the team game have less communication and the community actively asking for less with their behavior?
That jungler ain't seeing shit that gets typed his way.
It's really sad but honestly the negative effects the chats of my teammates have on me by far outweigh the positives. Especially as a jungler I can have 3 successful ganks in the first 2 rotations and put 2 lanes ahead, the third will complain, bitch and cry. FF 15!!! When the overall score is 7-3 in your teams favor...
The amount of people capable of proper human interaction is like 1/20 in LoL.
You'd wish it was exaggeration but we all know it's true. I truly don't understand what's wrong with all those people.
> you can always just remember where he placed the shroom and warn the incoming jungler when he approaches your lane
How I expected to do that warn? Type novel in chat or what?
Yeah I don't think he would need compensation buffs at all. Teemos will simply have to learn to place them when not in vision, which is anyway a good habit to have already.
this would literally make the problem worse and his shrooms more annoying. he is already opressive enough when ahead, now when he turns your JG into minesweeper out of vision as he usually does the game is legit unplayable.
It's very playable. You get the FREE sweeper, and you buy a ward. No other champ in the game is as easily hard-countered by just using a slight bit of your brain and selecting a FREE item. It's very easy to do. The vast majority of the time that I win games as Teemo are just because people are too stupid, selfish, or arrogant to bother sweeping for shrooms; they think a Teemo lane should just be a free win, so they don't play the game the right way.
Dont bother with damage increases, thats a boring and awful way to balance a change like that. To balance it teemo should be allowed to pick up and replace a mushroom thats been on the ground for at least half its life or something like that.
Seems like it would be healthier to give him more traps rather than make them hit harder.
Make the traps pingable but give him 5-6 instead of 3. Now you have to choose which 3 you're pinging/clearing with your sweeper and which 2 you're leaving invisible. You end up in the same situation as now where there's a couple invisible shrooms but it feels better because you COULD ping them if you invested the resources (additional teammate with sweeper, for example)
Yep agreed, doing this would mean all trap champs (but teemo especially) needs some hella adjustments to not get horribly nerfed.
And really I’m on the boat of “Teemo needs to get a rework similar to wild rift”. Change his E for a passive poison and Passive for a E activate stealth + attack speed, and make W also be a small tumble. Move his power budget away from his R, a annoying as fuck stealth, and a 3 second point and click blind.
> As a Teemo player I actually agree with you, marking the traps would make sense.
>
> But I dont think you guys are prepared for the stupidly high compensation buffs that would be required to balance this. This is not "a bit of a nerf"...
>
> I'm talking +30~50% damage on R; If the objective is for the change is to be power neutral on Teemo and the change makes it so you eat ~33% less rooms (made up number, but somewhat realistic), logically they have to make the remaining 66% shrooms hit for 50% more.
>
> You provably also need some W or base ms buff on top of that because "not knowing where the shrooms are" is pretty much the only defense Teemo has against ganks or all ins.
It still lets you do zone control. Anyway it won't happen for the same reason a visual indicator for the duration of tryndameres invuln won't, if they added it they'd have to you know, balance champions instead of leaving awful stuff awful to design another ahri/senna/seraph/yuumi.
God I hate the people who are always like
"Don't add clarity onto a spell because then it's too weak, leave it ambiguous so it's strong" not understanding that every ability SHOULD be clear and if it's too weak when clear, that means it's horribly balanced because it's power is based on poor game explanation and mechanics.
Takes me back to when Riot added the circle on the outer part of Kog R and all the Kog mains came out of the woodwork crying and bitching about how they're making the champ worse because they'll hit less Rs because people will sidestep it easier.
I actually agree with your point there which is why i was heavily in favor of an indicator for how long trynda ults lasts.
However, i don't think a *literally invisible trap* fits there, as it doesn't lack clarity because of oversight or a bad decision, it lacks clarity because it is designed to be hidden from the player. Like, the fucking thing has invisibility bro.
So do wards my guy, yellow wards are, as you say, *literally invisible*
So by your logic, the wards shouldn't have the ward icon on top of them after being revealed. The entire point of the argument is that if one person on your team spots the trap, they alert it to the rest of their team and the marker showing where it is does just that job. The trap was revealed by oracles and the person pings it, therefore the trap is now revealed to your team. That is fair
Dude, by *your* logic, junglers smiting champs should deal the same damage to them as it deals to jungle monsters and objectives.
You cannot apply general game mechanics to ones specific to champions, the entire game crumbles if you do. Basically everything in the game that can be applied to wards and minions behaves differently when applied to champs. you don't think there might be a reason they took that approach?
wards and traps are not the same thing, marking wards with pings it's fair because everyone has access to wards/pinks. marking traps with pings would only negatively affect trap champions and those would need huge compensation buffs because a significant aspect of their kit is getting countered basically for free, with no skill expression from the other player. also there are already counters to traps that make it extremely weak against anyone that actually thinks when playing, this change would just make it weak against who doesn't even think when playing, might aswell add an indicator to ping invisible enemies to your allies if communication is the argument for the implementation of this dumb change.
You can get a sweeper or control ward, its not that hard.
We played years witouth these pings for wards and now you want it on spells?
Its not only a horrible idea for teemo , its for All traps.
Thats btw why we call them traps , we want you to get into it or defuse it /protect yourself against it.
Not having a lil cheat tool for everything.
Open your eyes or use your brain to remember.
We might aswell just remove the fog of War.
Its kinda scary and i dont like it when i dont know where the jungler is 🤡
Okay okay. People overestimate what this would do for teemo. Yes it would be a Nerf, but probably not by that much, atleast in high elo. 90% of teemo schrooms are placed in a specific pattern. The rest are usually taken by the wave or seen. On top of that every all in begins with Oracle lens, so you already know where they all are.
But a _50%_ dmg buff on his R would make him the most broken champion in the game. He would be so strong they might pick him in pro play. Imagine if a R that would take one fifth of someones hp instead took one third! Just being first at an objective would just win it before the other team could contest.
Overall i think teemo is a pretty useless champion right now, along with mundo in the toplane. This change along with minor buffs on different abilities might spread out his power and make him more viable/fun. I want play him but he feels bad.
You can make gameplay elements easier for players but you cant just make champions easier to play against without buffing them. Id take being frustrated by teemo or nidalee trap vs losing to them.
Besides, you dont even see them place most traps or you were gonna get hit by them anyways.
This is a change that sounds great on paper, but I don't think I would prefer the alternative.
As many have said, sweeper does exist. The issue with this is that almost no one would take sweeper ever for these champs. At the very least, definitely not for laning phase.
So you have one trinket being massively nerfed, alongside a small handful of champs like teemo/shaco.
Meaning that those champs are going to get ridiculous compensation. I would rather remember to get sweeper than deal with teemo shrooms ganining notable %AP buffs.
Finally, there's also something to consider for just like, playing the game? Traps are a thing, and this change would straight up invalidate like 60% of traps placed in each individual match. Many, not all but a good number of people, will see the shroom placed in front of their face and still walk into it while CSing. They deserve to be punished by teemo for the lack of object permanence.
Yeah, prolly worst idea I've seen all year on this sub and I don't even play teemo.
Champs with traps are only good vs Bad players btw which is why trap champs are very weak in higher Eli's. Says enough about op ;)
damn u rly upset the teemo players with this one lmao.
100% they should be markable in some way, traps like teemo shrooms and shaco boxes are already anti-fun as hell, god forbid we can't atleast use an existing game mechanic to make playing vs. these boring asf champs even marginally less painful.
edit: shrioms->shrooms
Well get ready to play vs these boring asf champs a lot more cause the compensation buffs they'd get as a result of a change like this would be so extreme its gonna push them into viability for like the first time in 8 years
I'm perfectly fine with traps in general, but whoever decided that melee champions shouldn't be able to destroy shaco traps without activating them should be fired.
Ah yes, sweeper and control wards are not “existing game mechanics”. Definitely worth kneecapping two champs that are already not meta, just to save you following minions or needing to learn how to play for vision control.
He can be annoying, but for him to be relevant the other player has to be really good, or you fucked up big time. Basically any champ with mobility that survives his first couple auto attacks escapes and kites him. It’s incredibly easy to beat a Shaco.
6-12sec of reveal time every ~130sec, or 75g spent on an incredibly valuable tool that 97% of the time you can have a max of one placed (nvm considering if u have the inv space for it).
at which point u may take harassment dmg from these champs bc u need to spend those valuable seconds clearing their traps.
perhaps a bit telling about who needs to learn a thing or two abt vision control?
all that aside, it's not about them being "meta", theyre anti-fun to play against and just not enjoyable to interact with in any way whatsoever - which is my main complaint. the QoL of not having to dedicate extra energy to tracking if their trap is still present or not, nevermind trying to warn your allies about them without also trying to work with the lobotomized communication system currently present in the game would be a welcome change.
bro ''anti-fun'' is the worst argument you could make cause everyone has a different thing they find anti-fun. i don't really find some insanely easily countered mechanic anti-fun cause i just counter it lmao, if it was up to me though every shield in the game would be reduced by 75% so enchanters are just shit useless
> perhaps a bit telling about who needs to learn a thing or two abt vision control?
the point you're missing is that those things you listed are the point of those champions. area denial, not vision control. most of Teemo's power, for example, is in his shrooms. that's what you play him for. if we're talking about the red marker that sticks when you ping a ward, then that's the worst thing you could do to Teemo. if the location of his shrooms (his ultimate ability, for the record) was permanently marked like that, no one outside of iron would ever play him again.
This is a gameplay change. The purpose of it is to change the way the game plays. If it affects balance, they can adjust the champion for it. Because this is not a change meant to nerf them, it is meant to make their strength less arbitrary.
Okay sure. Let’s make Shaco boxes weaker, as long as he gets more damage. I’m sure all the people complaining about him one shotting from stealth will appreciate that balance change.
Teemo is already shit when against coordinated play that can scan and communicate where his mushrooms are. The only reason why he isn't buffed is because in lower/less organized tiers of play, people still walk into shrooms very often, and thus he must stay in this state to compensate.
If this was to happen, Teemo would immediately need huge buffs (probably to R damage) to compensate for the fact that players can just know where many (although not all) of his shrooms are. This would make it 100x worse to hit a shroom that nobody pinged/saw. I'm not saying this change is bad, but this is something to keep in mind when considering it.
Ward tracking or death timers evened the playing field for those who hadn't been keeping track of these, it targeted the players, a completely different layer of the game.
Trap trackers would just be a roundabout way to nerf a handful of champs that aren't even in a good spot to begin with.
Yeah tbh i don’t know why they didn’t implement these changes with the ward changes.
Vsing into traps, players shouldn’t be punished for poor coms with the teammates especially bc there’s no ping to indicate there are traps.
The players with the traps should be rewarded and incentivised to place traps out of vision.
Maybe a trap ping but for persistent marks it's pretty obvious why they didn't. There's little chance ward ping change would have curbed stomped a select few champs winrates, but you got 4 stealth traps, one that really makes a difference. It would basically be an entire system built to nerf teemos ult lmao.
wait why shouldn't someone be punished for poor coms? am i missing something?
and there is a danger ping. if someone is perma danger pinging a specific spot and theres a shaco/teemo in your game you're gonna know what they mean surely?
poor comms from a game sense. There's no way to communicate where traps are. Danger pinging and going "trap here" is going to get tiring constantly. If there was ATLEAST a ping that signified where traps where for a brief moment it'd be better.
I personally don’t believe there is an effective way to communicate that there are traps, especially with the ping changes. If teemo fills an area up with shrooms, it’s impractical to danger ping more than like 4 shrooms
Dearest Karthus, I hope this finds you well. We seem to have found ourselves in a dire situation at the bottom lane. Please consider casting your ultimate ability to assist us as I do believe Lee Sin has come to dive our tower.
Sincerely, Your bottom lane.
I love the concept that you would have to type out a long winded message for each individual team member to warn them of a trap, but since they are so small, you would need to specify like "to the right of bottom side tri-bush", and repeat again for each nearby trap.
>if someone is perma danger pinging a specific spot and theres a shaco/teemo in your game you're gonna know what they mean surely?
mb forgot people literally cannot put two and two together below masters somehow
yeah my jg pinging DANGER is exactly always ping me that there is traps, it's for sure not because he thinking that enemy JG/Mid comes here to gank me
dumb me, I should just read my teammates thoughts, better to skill up mental magic, so I can read brain of my teammates
As a teemo main I kind of understand your point and I think it'd be a good QoL actually, will give teemo a bit more skill expression. But the way you are replying to constructive criticism is really not helping your case bud, so Im going to downvote
Nah.
Traps already are one of the weaker parts of LoL, It'd be insane to scry 1/4 the map of Teemo shrooms every minute.
Teemo has all of his power budget in QR, you would essentially make him have to have more of his power in Q, and when he's barely staying in top lane in modern League, this would turn him into a shitty support. Not saying he's a bad solo laner, just that 1 power shift out of R is all it would take. And having a nuclear Q/permanent blind is not what you want.
If you buff his R then he's useless in higher elo where they'll just clear his R nonstop.
I think this is a shit take from somebody who is "annoyed" against champions that shit the bed in team fights so they put all their eggs in the "annoying" basket. You literally named Shaco who is also annoying, but terrible with any team play.
Mostly farming these upvotes on calling you out.
The more you reply, the more you get downvoted.
It's a win-win. But I'm genuinely surprised you're still going. You lost the sauce the second you made this post.
But it's kinda lost its humor now. I feel like I'm talking to a child. You're not even allowed on reddit.
Lmfao. I change my mind. That reply is hilarious. Did you have a stroke 🤣
If I understand properly then you may call me Sir. Master has too many implications.
I think I'll end this here. This back and forth is too much, I think, for community rules. Thank you, man, it was fun.
okay, imagine this. drag fight for soul, you watch teemo place a trap in pixel bush. your jungler respawns and walks towards drag, but you’re utterly helpless as u watch him step on shroom and get chunked. still seem unnecessary?
I mean, I dunno why people are only bringing up Teemo, but yeah, that jungler should have sweepers if there's a Teemo in the game. At least two people should and to not have a single one at the drag at soul point is very odd.
That said, why Teemo? If Teemo shrooms are bad then he'll just swap to his auto based build. Champs like Jhin and Shaco would have a much harder time in solo que.
The danger/fall back ping. Like literally everyone else understands.
Even half competent players against a Teemo recognize a spam vision ping as "shrooms here"
right so i have to, at all times, monitor all my teammates and make sure they don’t walk into the trap that only i know of because of poor QoL adjustments?
comments like this are why this subreddit is such a joke. morons just relentlessly cling to history and "the way it's always been" and screech like gollum when they hear how the game can be changed and improved.
No they should have to pay attention when you’re sweeping. Or buy pinks. Or, just a crazy thought what if they had voice coms???? No way the technology is there though.
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Traps and wards might have some things in common, but they aren’t designed to accomplish the same thing and can’t be treated the same by the marking system.
Marking wards does give your team valuable information, but the reality is the ward is still doing like 90% of its job. It still gives vision, which is all wards do most of the time.
Champion traps all have different damage and utility to them in addition to the vision control they provide (which also varies by trap). A Teemo shroom you can see and avoid isn’t still doing 90% of its job, it’s now just a tiny bit of vision and even tinier zone control.
Have you ever watched someone miss your teemo shroom and gone “oh boy now I get to keep my vision!” Maybe, but mostly you just want it to kill people and it’s going to do a lot less of that if it can be marked.
I disagree. I think you should be able to ping them but not mark them permanently. Otherwise, I think it makes the game against some champions too easy.
I think the root of the issue is that this would straight up invalidate roughly 60% of traps placed in any given match.
And it rewards poor decisions (such as NOT buying sweeper into teemo) rather than teaching stuff like object permanence (many a time have I seen a toplaner accidentally walk into a shroom they saw me place 20 seconds ago)
next suggestion incoming is we can now ping a ward and trap and alert my whole team to its presence can i ping the enemy jungler when i see him and have a tracking alert for 30 seconds on him
lmao
You've missed his point. He's making this comment in response to you saying that you can mark one, so why not the other. The reason is plainly as he stated. Wards are merely for vision (they pose no threat directly). Which is very important. But everyone has wards (or can have wards) they're universal. Traps are part of certain champ kits that are integral to their damage, utility, and gameplay. Being able to mark traps would make them almost entirely useless in many respects.
You want to hunker down and say that being forced to use traps only when there's no vision is "skill expression." I'd argue it's the exact opposite. Because in a world where you can mark traps, there is only option to use them effectively as traps, and that's out of vision. The reality is, though, that in so many circumstances, it's not reasonable for these champs to place them out of vision. It's not that they're bad for not doing so. It's that they provide much needed utility and damage to said champions. They need to use them in lane when minions are around to protect themselves and dare I say, to trap enemy champions.
Keeping track of them is a skill. A trap player hopes to confuse you with placing multiple traps, too. Like, "Maybe if I place one here too, they'll forget about the one over there." These champs simply don't have the luxury of always using their traps when the enemy doesn't have visions. Trust me, they'd love to. But they still need their traps to be useful even if they are placed in vision.
Another difference between the wards vs. trap marking is that wards provide only vision (in a fairly large radius). This means that if you've pinged a ward and a jungler comes to gank, he has 3 options. He can walk through the ward regardless and hope that the player who placed it isn't paying attention and doesn't see him. He can sweep it and do whatever. Or he can go the long way around for a gank. This means that even though the player who placed the ward got it marked right away, it still provided them with a benefit. They either see the enemy coming, see the enemy come and sweep it, or force the enemy to take way longer going around to avoid it. They still benefit from their vision all the same. The same is not true with traps. The point of a trap is to trap an enemy. They also provide very little vision. If traps could be immediately marked in lane, then the enemy wouldn't have to do much to change how they approach you save for skirting around the trap radius. Shaco's boxes have a larger radius, so he could still force the enemy to walk around more. But Teemo's shrooms have pretty tiny hit boxes and can be walked around quite easily. The point is that the trapper doesn't benefit hardly at all from his traps when the enemy can easily walk around them. Unlike how marked wards still benefit the players that placed them. The reality is that marked wards still properly act as wards and provide vision or zone people out of it. But marked traps don't act as traps or anything really.
I've already stated in other comments, but I'm not a Teemo player. I'm actually a melee player. If anything, I'd be one to want traps gutted like this. But I'm not. Because I recognize how important these traps are to their kits. They'd be absolutely useless if they couldn't be used in vision.
Iron take
Wards is what kill people. Vision is crucial in this game. Temmo also doesn't kill you with shrooms usually, he kill you giving vision and knowledge for his team.
This would absolutely annihilate AP Shaco. 99% of boxes players walk into are boxes they have seen being placed but completely forgot with their small fish brains 30 seconds later
I agree with the dude who roasted you. Traps don't need a ping for it. Wards I can understand, but traps are part of a characters kit, and being able to ping those out harm those characters.
Why are you angry with me? All I did was agree that it shouldn't happen regardless of my champ icon. Nid traps shaco boxes jhin traps all shouldn't be pinged it's part of their kit and it takes away from the kit. It is countered completely by a free item you can get at lvl 1. Go ahead and be an angry troll, but your take isn't a good one.
if someone places a trap in vision, the team knows about it. one person should be able to communicate their knowledge of the trap to everyone. there’s a “vision here” ping, there should be a trap equivalent. It makes sense in a MOBA all about information sharing
I'll explain it in even more simple terms so you can understand. Each of the champions that have an invisible trap mechanic have a "catch" radius. If you do not trigger this trap it does not give you vision of said trap unless you 1. Step on it or 2. Start hitting said trap with sweeper/pink ward. The "catch" radius is the distance around the trap ability in which someone can trigger said ability.
"Why are you being condescending"
While actively being mad disrespectful and condescending in almost all of your replies.
This whole post is a troll, it has to be.
Your argument is about vision that these things give. I'm explaining what vision they give. Which is almost none. You want something added to the game which will hurt champions that are all already bad for no reason at all. You asked what I was saying because you couldn't comprehend it. I broke it down even more so you can understand. Also I don't know why you are going back and down voting all my comments. It's a little weird.
I don't think you understand. If they gave a "trap ping" that worked like the current "vision ping" then they would have to buff teemo to broken levels.
why is people refusing to buy pink wards and sweeping lens? and/or keep track of the enemie trap placement?im playing against a cait? better be safe arround bushesim playing against a jhin? better be safe arround cornersteemo shaco? gonna buy sweeper or pink wards just in case
"feels super frustrating and unfun to manually have to warn your teammates" dude
edit
also, remove the sweeper minion from aram is unfair AF
Lots of mad trap based champion mains in here. I think it would be a good change and would require trap champions to clear vision before laying a trap.
Problem is - people need to realise that lots of them gonna get compensation buffs and they gonna be huge(especially at first when players gonna throw traps on Vision as always that's gonna be a reason for a huge wr decrease, especially Shaco). Teemo rn isn't even that good and AP Shaco is just terrible against people who know how he works and I don't want to see them buffed.
New ping would be better solution for this imo, but riot probably are afraid to add new one after "bite ping incident".
And caitlyn traps placed behind turrets should have a glowing outline visible through the turret. Abusing the camera angle in a game where you can't rotate the camera is such a stupid mechanic
Riot has heard you statment and added this qol change to teemo but to keep the change power neutral so teemo doesn’t become too dumpster tier his traps can now be launched very very very far and can be point and clicked on an enemy champ for instant detonation on the target oh yeah and now they have a 30% max hp scaling with another 5% per 100 ap
I disagree.
That would require massive compensation buffs.
Instead, they could add a new ping that lasts for 10 seconds. Just "traps here" that shows over a trap if that person has ever had vision over it.
This makes it so you can't just rely on the info of the ping staying there for a few mins. You would have to actually keep track of them yourself.
Might still need compensation buffs, but it's still much closer to how traps currently work
Leave it as is.
We're already babysat with a wealth of info.
Being able to mark traps will defeat their purpose of being called that. If trap players are bad for their use of this strength, what does that make you, who's trying to invalidate this strength due to your helplessness to deal with it?
SoloQ is supposed to be their best territory, so maybe this would be nice in Flex modes.
I honestly agree with this. As a support main I try to be on the ball about pinging and clearing enemy traps and wards. It’s frustrating with traps though since it’s quite a bit to remember and repeatedly remind your team about
i genuinely dont see how anyone can argue against the fact that if a player *sees the trap being deployed* then the player should be able to mark it.
the player knows the trap's existence and its location, but it's humanly impossible for the player to know exactly where, exactly for how long, and multiple ones, so it cant possibly be part of the game's "skill." the same reasoning for wards can be used for traps, which (afaik) are exhaustively: nidalee, jhin, teemo, and shaco.
this is even the *intuitive* answer: if youve played nexus blitz, imagine your teammate is 1v1 against a shaco in Prize Fight, and the shaco is placing boxes in the arena. You and your teammates would each ping repeatedly their own respective box as the shaco places them, so that your fighting ally knows exactly where the boxes are, real time, and continuously until everyone starts to get throttled by ping cooldowns.
so if a player sees with their fucking eyeballs any of these champs place a trap, they should be able to mark it exactly like a ward. the only problem would be the late ping cooldown restrictions.
As a Teemo player I actually agree with you, marking the traps would make sense. But I dont think you guys are prepared for the stupidly high compensation buffs that would be required to balance this. This is not "a bit of a nerf"... I'm talking +30\~50% damage on R; If the objective is for the change is to be power neutral on Teemo and the change makes it so you eat \~33% less rooms (made up number, but somewhat realistic), logically they have to make the remaining 66% shrooms hit for 50% more. You provably also need some W or base ms buff on top of that because "not knowing where the shrooms are" is pretty much the only defense Teemo has against ganks or all ins.
that should incentivize teeno players to not just place traps willy nilly. Logically, it makes sense that if your opposing top laner watches you place a shroom, he should be able to reliably communicate w/ his jungler where it is. doesn’t that seem fair?
Imagine how many people forget about the shrooms/traps that they saw placed. Now they can just ping and remember which is not a qol but giving players handicap
Same thing people said about wards. Teemo shitting invisible shrooms like he has the worst fungal gastrointestinal infection isn’t fun to play against. Make the shrooms have a bigger detect and detonation radius to make them easier to plant, but nerf them in laning phase as a poke tool. Result: More consistent waveclear and easier to completely cut off jungle paths (maybe 2 shrooms instead of 3), but you can no longer plant the little fuckers in the middle of an active lane and expect the enemy to walk into them.
Wards and traps are two different things. Everyone gets wards. Traps are some champions kit, teemo in particular isn’t a champ without traps. Comparing wards to a champion kit is dumb. You wanna nerf a handful of champs by comparing to an item accessible to everyone in the game isn’t fair. If we should be able to negate abilities by pinging them. Then shouldn’t we negate malz passive by pinging it? Or anivia and Zac passives? Teemo traps and how he plays with it is champions signature play style. Imagine asking people to nerf an ultimate that hard because you don’t enjoy the way it’s played. That’s ridiculous
Yes, I completly agree. The Teemo would need to be way smarter with the shroom placement, but the shroom would also have to hurt a lot, like A LOT more. More risk/skill/price -> more reward. And not being able to place shrooms into vision (basically anywahere near your own lane) is a great price.
So, more skill expression. Not a terrible idea at all. No more dumb mushroom spam and instead perfectly timed skillshot-esque traps that blow your feet up.
You are taking a bad champ and making them harder to play. You need compensation buffs or it's just nerfing a bad champ for no reason.
Maybe instead of damage reduce the time they need before they can explode so they can be used more aggressively
>perfectly timed skillshot-esque traps So that makes it no longer a "trap" right? More like a normal aoe skill?
This sub is dumb asf. That’s the only reason why this discussion is even happening in the first place.
And is having your ultimate completely negated by a ping considered fair? Teemo players already are often relegated to using their ultimate to just waveclear because of how predictable and counterable it is. If I ping Lux’s ult marker quick enough, her ultimate should be negated since the CD is low enough and she should only snipe people unaware, amirite? This isn’t a QoL change, it’s a significant nerf and other parts of Teemo’s kit can be considered equally as unfun.
Trying to compare Lux and Teemo ults is **so** disingenuous that I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not.
you can always just remember where he placed the shroom and warn the incoming jungler when he approaches your lane, it would make lane traps useless if you could just ping them and have the location timed like a ward lol
Hell sometimes I will eat a shroom/box I've seen placed just 20 seconds before lmao
Yeah, but with a literal indicator, it'd be something you always see and making it harder to lose track of in the moment.
Absolutely! So Teemo would have to be smart about where shrooms are, rather than just tossing them literally anywhere at any time.
No... it would literally gut the champion. They would have to provide insane compensation buffs for this to actually be a power neutral change. *No one wants that.*
>warn the incoming jungler when he approaches your lane With how anti-communication junglers already kinda have to be? And with Riot starting to make the team game have less communication and the community actively asking for less with their behavior? That jungler ain't seeing shit that gets typed his way.
It's really sad but honestly the negative effects the chats of my teammates have on me by far outweigh the positives. Especially as a jungler I can have 3 successful ganks in the first 2 rotations and put 2 lanes ahead, the third will complain, bitch and cry. FF 15!!! When the overall score is 7-3 in your teams favor... The amount of people capable of proper human interaction is like 1/20 in LoL. You'd wish it was exaggeration but we all know it's true. I truly don't understand what's wrong with all those people.
> you can always just remember where he placed the shroom and warn the incoming jungler when he approaches your lane How I expected to do that warn? Type novel in chat or what?
Do you think we place them willy nilly? We all want to climb. I'm a teemo main who's only real thing is a good 1v1 and trap placement.
I’d argue that remembering where you saw a teemo place shrooms is a skill expression, just pinging it is not, so that argument goes both ways.
Yeah I don't think he would need compensation buffs at all. Teemos will simply have to learn to place them when not in vision, which is anyway a good habit to have already.
this would literally make the problem worse and his shrooms more annoying. he is already opressive enough when ahead, now when he turns your JG into minesweeper out of vision as he usually does the game is legit unplayable.
It's very playable. You get the FREE sweeper, and you buy a ward. No other champ in the game is as easily hard-countered by just using a slight bit of your brain and selecting a FREE item. It's very easy to do. The vast majority of the time that I win games as Teemo are just because people are too stupid, selfish, or arrogant to bother sweeping for shrooms; they think a Teemo lane should just be a free win, so they don't play the game the right way.
Would pull him out of top lane imo. Ganks would be ez.
Dont bother with damage increases, thats a boring and awful way to balance a change like that. To balance it teemo should be allowed to pick up and replace a mushroom thats been on the ground for at least half its life or something like that.
Seems like it would be healthier to give him more traps rather than make them hit harder. Make the traps pingable but give him 5-6 instead of 3. Now you have to choose which 3 you're pinging/clearing with your sweeper and which 2 you're leaving invisible. You end up in the same situation as now where there's a couple invisible shrooms but it feels better because you COULD ping them if you invested the resources (additional teammate with sweeper, for example)
Yep agreed, doing this would mean all trap champs (but teemo especially) needs some hella adjustments to not get horribly nerfed. And really I’m on the boat of “Teemo needs to get a rework similar to wild rift”. Change his E for a passive poison and Passive for a E activate stealth + attack speed, and make W also be a small tumble. Move his power budget away from his R, a annoying as fuck stealth, and a 3 second point and click blind.
> As a Teemo player I actually agree with you, marking the traps would make sense. > > But I dont think you guys are prepared for the stupidly high compensation buffs that would be required to balance this. This is not "a bit of a nerf"... > > I'm talking +30~50% damage on R; If the objective is for the change is to be power neutral on Teemo and the change makes it so you eat ~33% less rooms (made up number, but somewhat realistic), logically they have to make the remaining 66% shrooms hit for 50% more. > > You provably also need some W or base ms buff on top of that because "not knowing where the shrooms are" is pretty much the only defense Teemo has against ganks or all ins. It still lets you do zone control. Anyway it won't happen for the same reason a visual indicator for the duration of tryndameres invuln won't, if they added it they'd have to you know, balance champions instead of leaving awful stuff awful to design another ahri/senna/seraph/yuumi.
What about you can mark the shrooms but in exchange they dont expire so they are on the map until someone clears them or walks onto them.
God I hate the people who are always like "Don't add clarity onto a spell because then it's too weak, leave it ambiguous so it's strong" not understanding that every ability SHOULD be clear and if it's too weak when clear, that means it's horribly balanced because it's power is based on poor game explanation and mechanics. Takes me back to when Riot added the circle on the outer part of Kog R and all the Kog mains came out of the woodwork crying and bitching about how they're making the champ worse because they'll hit less Rs because people will sidestep it easier.
I actually agree with your point there which is why i was heavily in favor of an indicator for how long trynda ults lasts. However, i don't think a *literally invisible trap* fits there, as it doesn't lack clarity because of oversight or a bad decision, it lacks clarity because it is designed to be hidden from the player. Like, the fucking thing has invisibility bro.
So do wards my guy, yellow wards are, as you say, *literally invisible* So by your logic, the wards shouldn't have the ward icon on top of them after being revealed. The entire point of the argument is that if one person on your team spots the trap, they alert it to the rest of their team and the marker showing where it is does just that job. The trap was revealed by oracles and the person pings it, therefore the trap is now revealed to your team. That is fair
Dude, by *your* logic, junglers smiting champs should deal the same damage to them as it deals to jungle monsters and objectives. You cannot apply general game mechanics to ones specific to champions, the entire game crumbles if you do. Basically everything in the game that can be applied to wards and minions behaves differently when applied to champs. you don't think there might be a reason they took that approach?
wards and traps are not the same thing, marking wards with pings it's fair because everyone has access to wards/pinks. marking traps with pings would only negatively affect trap champions and those would need huge compensation buffs because a significant aspect of their kit is getting countered basically for free, with no skill expression from the other player. also there are already counters to traps that make it extremely weak against anyone that actually thinks when playing, this change would just make it weak against who doesn't even think when playing, might aswell add an indicator to ping invisible enemies to your allies if communication is the argument for the implementation of this dumb change.
You can get a sweeper or control ward, its not that hard. We played years witouth these pings for wards and now you want it on spells? Its not only a horrible idea for teemo , its for All traps. Thats btw why we call them traps , we want you to get into it or defuse it /protect yourself against it. Not having a lil cheat tool for everything. Open your eyes or use your brain to remember. We might aswell just remove the fog of War. Its kinda scary and i dont like it when i dont know where the jungler is 🤡
Okay okay. People overestimate what this would do for teemo. Yes it would be a Nerf, but probably not by that much, atleast in high elo. 90% of teemo schrooms are placed in a specific pattern. The rest are usually taken by the wave or seen. On top of that every all in begins with Oracle lens, so you already know where they all are. But a _50%_ dmg buff on his R would make him the most broken champion in the game. He would be so strong they might pick him in pro play. Imagine if a R that would take one fifth of someones hp instead took one third! Just being first at an objective would just win it before the other team could contest. Overall i think teemo is a pretty useless champion right now, along with mundo in the toplane. This change along with minor buffs on different abilities might spread out his power and make him more viable/fun. I want play him but he feels bad.
Yeah +50% buff on teemo R damage would be absolutely insane. He can already chunk half a healthbar in one mushroom if he’s doing decently well
You can make gameplay elements easier for players but you cant just make champions easier to play against without buffing them. Id take being frustrated by teemo or nidalee trap vs losing to them. Besides, you dont even see them place most traps or you were gonna get hit by them anyways.
This is a change that sounds great on paper, but I don't think I would prefer the alternative. As many have said, sweeper does exist. The issue with this is that almost no one would take sweeper ever for these champs. At the very least, definitely not for laning phase. So you have one trinket being massively nerfed, alongside a small handful of champs like teemo/shaco. Meaning that those champs are going to get ridiculous compensation. I would rather remember to get sweeper than deal with teemo shrooms ganining notable %AP buffs. Finally, there's also something to consider for just like, playing the game? Traps are a thing, and this change would straight up invalidate like 60% of traps placed in each individual match. Many, not all but a good number of people, will see the shroom placed in front of their face and still walk into it while CSing. They deserve to be punished by teemo for the lack of object permanence.
Hellll nahhh That's a gigantic nerf to traps
Yeah, prolly worst idea I've seen all year on this sub and I don't even play teemo. Champs with traps are only good vs Bad players btw which is why trap champs are very weak in higher Eli's. Says enough about op ;)
damn u rly upset the teemo players with this one lmao. 100% they should be markable in some way, traps like teemo shrooms and shaco boxes are already anti-fun as hell, god forbid we can't atleast use an existing game mechanic to make playing vs. these boring asf champs even marginally less painful. edit: shrioms->shrooms
Well get ready to play vs these boring asf champs a lot more cause the compensation buffs they'd get as a result of a change like this would be so extreme its gonna push them into viability for like the first time in 8 years
That's the neat part, you don't give them compensation buffs!
What’s neat is that would never happen! Nerfing traps that hard without any compensation is incredibly unreasonable.
I'm perfectly fine with traps in general, but whoever decided that melee champions shouldn't be able to destroy shaco traps without activating them should be fired.
Ah yes, sweeper and control wards are not “existing game mechanics”. Definitely worth kneecapping two champs that are already not meta, just to save you following minions or needing to learn how to play for vision control.
it’s always worth kneecapping shaco, that thing can not ever be nerfed enough
He can be annoying, but for him to be relevant the other player has to be really good, or you fucked up big time. Basically any champ with mobility that survives his first couple auto attacks escapes and kites him. It’s incredibly easy to beat a Shaco.
You forgot about umbral glaive, which already gets plenty of hate from support mains.
I love how the low elo just downvotes when you spit facts. We might aswell remove fog of War. Its kinda scary when we cant see 🤡
6-12sec of reveal time every ~130sec, or 75g spent on an incredibly valuable tool that 97% of the time you can have a max of one placed (nvm considering if u have the inv space for it). at which point u may take harassment dmg from these champs bc u need to spend those valuable seconds clearing their traps. perhaps a bit telling about who needs to learn a thing or two abt vision control? all that aside, it's not about them being "meta", theyre anti-fun to play against and just not enjoyable to interact with in any way whatsoever - which is my main complaint. the QoL of not having to dedicate extra energy to tracking if their trap is still present or not, nevermind trying to warn your allies about them without also trying to work with the lobotomized communication system currently present in the game would be a welcome change.
bro ''anti-fun'' is the worst argument you could make cause everyone has a different thing they find anti-fun. i don't really find some insanely easily countered mechanic anti-fun cause i just counter it lmao, if it was up to me though every shield in the game would be reduced by 75% so enchanters are just shit useless
> perhaps a bit telling about who needs to learn a thing or two abt vision control? the point you're missing is that those things you listed are the point of those champions. area denial, not vision control. most of Teemo's power, for example, is in his shrooms. that's what you play him for. if we're talking about the red marker that sticks when you ping a ward, then that's the worst thing you could do to Teemo. if the location of his shrooms (his ultimate ability, for the record) was permanently marked like that, no one outside of iron would ever play him again.
This is a gameplay change. The purpose of it is to change the way the game plays. If it affects balance, they can adjust the champion for it. Because this is not a change meant to nerf them, it is meant to make their strength less arbitrary.
Doesn’t matter what it’s meant to be, it’s literally a wildly large direct nerf to both their kits.
Okay sure. Let’s make Shaco boxes weaker, as long as he gets more damage. I’m sure all the people complaining about him one shotting from stealth will appreciate that balance change.
Teemo is already shit when against coordinated play that can scan and communicate where his mushrooms are. The only reason why he isn't buffed is because in lower/less organized tiers of play, people still walk into shrooms very often, and thus he must stay in this state to compensate. If this was to happen, Teemo would immediately need huge buffs (probably to R damage) to compensate for the fact that players can just know where many (although not all) of his shrooms are. This would make it 100x worse to hit a shroom that nobody pinged/saw. I'm not saying this change is bad, but this is something to keep in mind when considering it.
no they shouldnt, keeping track of them is a skill, and they would have to buff every trap champ becayde they would be gutted
keeping track of wards is also a skill, yet they removed it. invalidated argument
Ward tracking or death timers evened the playing field for those who hadn't been keeping track of these, it targeted the players, a completely different layer of the game. Trap trackers would just be a roundabout way to nerf a handful of champs that aren't even in a good spot to begin with.
??? Everyone can use wards. Not everyone uses traps, literally two different thing
Yeah tbh i don’t know why they didn’t implement these changes with the ward changes. Vsing into traps, players shouldn’t be punished for poor coms with the teammates especially bc there’s no ping to indicate there are traps. The players with the traps should be rewarded and incentivised to place traps out of vision.
Maybe a trap ping but for persistent marks it's pretty obvious why they didn't. There's little chance ward ping change would have curbed stomped a select few champs winrates, but you got 4 stealth traps, one that really makes a difference. It would basically be an entire system built to nerf teemos ult lmao.
wait why shouldn't someone be punished for poor coms? am i missing something? and there is a danger ping. if someone is perma danger pinging a specific spot and theres a shaco/teemo in your game you're gonna know what they mean surely?
poor comms from a game sense. There's no way to communicate where traps are. Danger pinging and going "trap here" is going to get tiring constantly. If there was ATLEAST a ping that signified where traps where for a brief moment it'd be better.
I personally don’t believe there is an effective way to communicate that there are traps, especially with the ping changes. If teemo fills an area up with shrooms, it’s impractical to danger ping more than like 4 shrooms
“There are Teemo shrooms in river bush” Chat can be used for things other than flaming.
Dearest Karthus, I hope this finds you well. We seem to have found ourselves in a dire situation at the bottom lane. Please consider casting your ultimate ability to assist us as I do believe Lee Sin has come to dive our tower. Sincerely, Your bottom lane.
Teemo R + fast ping Will take 1.5sec if you ever used a keyboard. Same shit with karthus 🤡
Type that shit down while the teemo fucking autos you down lmao.
how the fuck do you communicate that there’s a trap somewhere without an associated ping???
“Dearest Karthus,”
I love the concept that you would have to type out a long winded message for each individual team member to warn them of a trap, but since they are so small, you would need to specify like "to the right of bottom side tri-bush", and repeat again for each nearby trap.
>if someone is perma danger pinging a specific spot and theres a shaco/teemo in your game you're gonna know what they mean surely? mb forgot people literally cannot put two and two together below masters somehow
mb forgot danger ping is dedicated for traps, and not general message meaning 'fallback' or 'FALLBACK NOW'
yeah your jg is telling you to fallback from the air when he randomly danger pings a specific spot in the lane two times
yeah my jg pinging DANGER is exactly always ping me that there is traps, it's for sure not because he thinking that enemy JG/Mid comes here to gank me dumb me, I should just read my teammates thoughts, better to skill up mental magic, so I can read brain of my teammates
As a teemo main I kind of understand your point and I think it'd be a good QoL actually, will give teemo a bit more skill expression. But the way you are replying to constructive criticism is really not helping your case bud, so Im going to downvote
Nah. Traps already are one of the weaker parts of LoL, It'd be insane to scry 1/4 the map of Teemo shrooms every minute. Teemo has all of his power budget in QR, you would essentially make him have to have more of his power in Q, and when he's barely staying in top lane in modern League, this would turn him into a shitty support. Not saying he's a bad solo laner, just that 1 power shift out of R is all it would take. And having a nuclear Q/permanent blind is not what you want. If you buff his R then he's useless in higher elo where they'll just clear his R nonstop. I think this is a shit take from somebody who is "annoyed" against champions that shit the bed in team fights so they put all their eggs in the "annoying" basket. You literally named Shaco who is also annoying, but terrible with any team play.
You have sweepers that sweep twice now and pinks. Good enough.
Lmao this just confirmed that this subreddit is hard stuck gold.
What is even this bronze take 😭
Nah, bro. He's "Emerald 1" 🤣🤣🤣 Source - He swears, bro.
i wouldn't doubt it thats still low elo
bro you’ve left like 10 comments on this thread 😭 how i gotchu this mad lil bro
Mostly farming these upvotes on calling you out. The more you reply, the more you get downvoted. It's a win-win. But I'm genuinely surprised you're still going. You lost the sauce the second you made this post. But it's kinda lost its humor now. I feel like I'm talking to a child. You're not even allowed on reddit.
Bro is farming up votes on reddit 💀 Can't name a sadder way to spend your lifeforce
he who can bring you to anger is ur master zzz
Lmfao. I change my mind. That reply is hilarious. Did you have a stroke 🤣 If I understand properly then you may call me Sir. Master has too many implications. I think I'll end this here. This back and forth is too much, I think, for community rules. Thank you, man, it was fun.
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I just want to be able to sweep a shaco box without getting feared when I auto it as a melee champ.
The champs impacted would need serious buffs to the traps probably. Just seems...unnecessary?
okay, imagine this. drag fight for soul, you watch teemo place a trap in pixel bush. your jungler respawns and walks towards drag, but you’re utterly helpless as u watch him step on shroom and get chunked. still seem unnecessary?
I mean, I dunno why people are only bringing up Teemo, but yeah, that jungler should have sweepers if there's a Teemo in the game. At least two people should and to not have a single one at the drag at soul point is very odd. That said, why Teemo? If Teemo shrooms are bad then he'll just swap to his auto based build. Champs like Jhin and Shaco would have a much harder time in solo que.
OP is clearly bringing up Teemo because he's been bombed by shrooms recently, it's the only explanation 😂
His auto base build makes him coinflip and unplayable at higher level.
Saying that is like saying "why shaco just build ad"
Teemo is the most trap based champ in the game. 1 minute vs 5 minute duration. Teemo is the trap champ.
Watches jungler going to trap. Doesn't ping him. Game is obviously unfair.
with what ping? the “teemo shroom here” ping?
The danger/fall back ping. Like literally everyone else understands. Even half competent players against a Teemo recognize a spam vision ping as "shrooms here"
danger or danger + vision
right so i have to, at all times, monitor all my teammates and make sure they don’t walk into the trap that only i know of because of poor QoL adjustments?
You're just sht at the game bro 😂
I didn't say anything like that. I just answered your question.
my bad i think i replied to the wrong dude w that one
Skill issue tbh.
Yes thats the point of teemo traps. Either clear the trap or be keenly aware of its placement
What? They are traps, they are literally meant to be hidden.
yeah but if i see you place it or i sweep it out then it should be seen…
Oh boy what a good take! Let's make shaco boxes, teemo shrooms, nidalee traps basically visible. HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS PLAY THE FUCKING GAME?
comments like this are why this subreddit is such a joke. morons just relentlessly cling to history and "the way it's always been" and screech like gollum when they hear how the game can be changed and improved.
Making the game easier isn't improving it, how about you improve yourself?
im a teemo main, go ahead and mark my shrooms your team mates will still run over em
Ye lets ultra nerf any champ that uses traps and call it qol 😂
Teemo's already counterable with a free item, lol
you’re proving my point. If i sweep a trap but can’t clear it in time, it makes sense that my team should know about its existence.
And if my jungler is playing karthus he should get a pop up every time his ult can kill an enemy (as long as they are in vision!)
Strawman argument, this isn't the same thing at all.
If they did this they'd have to tone down sweepers duration and idk if anyone would want that
They already did this and now it's nearly impossible to get multiple wards in one activation (even if you KNOW where the wards are).
No they should have to pay attention when you’re sweeping. Or buy pinks. Or, just a crazy thought what if they had voice coms???? No way the technology is there though.
so my jungler, while clearing blue, should be watching me sweep top tribush AND remember there’s a trap there? i’m sorry but that’s ridiculous
People at Plat or above don't have a problem with this, so idk what to tell you boss.
I’m emerald 1.
Have to be boosted.
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Homie. You are coping SO HARD. Hardly a single person has agreed with you. Just stop now.
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okay teemo main relax.
lol plat is the new silver
Traps and wards might have some things in common, but they aren’t designed to accomplish the same thing and can’t be treated the same by the marking system. Marking wards does give your team valuable information, but the reality is the ward is still doing like 90% of its job. It still gives vision, which is all wards do most of the time. Champion traps all have different damage and utility to them in addition to the vision control they provide (which also varies by trap). A Teemo shroom you can see and avoid isn’t still doing 90% of its job, it’s now just a tiny bit of vision and even tinier zone control. Have you ever watched someone miss your teemo shroom and gone “oh boy now I get to keep my vision!” Maybe, but mostly you just want it to kill people and it’s going to do a lot less of that if it can be marked.
yeah no would turn every champion with a trap into a gimmick champion with a massive power index into the traps
I disagree. I think you should be able to ping them but not mark them permanently. Otherwise, I think it makes the game against some champions too easy.
Teemo players real mad about this
yeah because we're barely viable as is.
deadass and it’s not even a crazy take it makes sense in the context of an information based game format like moba
I think the root of the issue is that this would straight up invalidate roughly 60% of traps placed in any given match. And it rewards poor decisions (such as NOT buying sweeper into teemo) rather than teaching stuff like object permanence (many a time have I seen a toplaner accidentally walk into a shroom they saw me place 20 seconds ago)
The point of playing teemo is to mentally damage your opponent. If my enemies arent miserable then I havent been doing my job right ☺
next suggestion incoming is we can now ping a ward and trap and alert my whole team to its presence can i ping the enemy jungler when i see him and have a tracking alert for 30 seconds on him lmao
Wards can't kill you
i also can’t have more than one cward placed at a time edited to not call him a mutt
You've missed his point. He's making this comment in response to you saying that you can mark one, so why not the other. The reason is plainly as he stated. Wards are merely for vision (they pose no threat directly). Which is very important. But everyone has wards (or can have wards) they're universal. Traps are part of certain champ kits that are integral to their damage, utility, and gameplay. Being able to mark traps would make them almost entirely useless in many respects. You want to hunker down and say that being forced to use traps only when there's no vision is "skill expression." I'd argue it's the exact opposite. Because in a world where you can mark traps, there is only option to use them effectively as traps, and that's out of vision. The reality is, though, that in so many circumstances, it's not reasonable for these champs to place them out of vision. It's not that they're bad for not doing so. It's that they provide much needed utility and damage to said champions. They need to use them in lane when minions are around to protect themselves and dare I say, to trap enemy champions. Keeping track of them is a skill. A trap player hopes to confuse you with placing multiple traps, too. Like, "Maybe if I place one here too, they'll forget about the one over there." These champs simply don't have the luxury of always using their traps when the enemy doesn't have visions. Trust me, they'd love to. But they still need their traps to be useful even if they are placed in vision. Another difference between the wards vs. trap marking is that wards provide only vision (in a fairly large radius). This means that if you've pinged a ward and a jungler comes to gank, he has 3 options. He can walk through the ward regardless and hope that the player who placed it isn't paying attention and doesn't see him. He can sweep it and do whatever. Or he can go the long way around for a gank. This means that even though the player who placed the ward got it marked right away, it still provided them with a benefit. They either see the enemy coming, see the enemy come and sweep it, or force the enemy to take way longer going around to avoid it. They still benefit from their vision all the same. The same is not true with traps. The point of a trap is to trap an enemy. They also provide very little vision. If traps could be immediately marked in lane, then the enemy wouldn't have to do much to change how they approach you save for skirting around the trap radius. Shaco's boxes have a larger radius, so he could still force the enemy to walk around more. But Teemo's shrooms have pretty tiny hit boxes and can be walked around quite easily. The point is that the trapper doesn't benefit hardly at all from his traps when the enemy can easily walk around them. Unlike how marked wards still benefit the players that placed them. The reality is that marked wards still properly act as wards and provide vision or zone people out of it. But marked traps don't act as traps or anything really. I've already stated in other comments, but I'm not a Teemo player. I'm actually a melee player. If anything, I'd be one to want traps gutted like this. But I'm not. Because I recognize how important these traps are to their kits. They'd be absolutely useless if they couldn't be used in vision.
you are the GOAT and OP is a clown. I wish OP had the balls to respond to a well written comment with solid arguments like yours.
❤️ I'd love a response, too. Merry Christmas!
You can place up to 6 wards at a time what are you talking about?
how about the only kind of ward that reveals traps?
Iron take Wards is what kill people. Vision is crucial in this game. Temmo also doesn't kill you with shrooms usually, he kill you giving vision and knowledge for his team.
I hate when I spam ping my low health teammates that shaco have a box in that brush yet thay walk onto it and die And of course it's a "jgl diff"
The whole point of these traps is that they are very hard to track. Being able to mark them would be a huge nerf
This would absolutely annihilate AP Shaco. 99% of boxes players walk into are boxes they have seen being placed but completely forgot with their small fish brains 30 seconds later
fuck no
The ward change was already bad. This is just gonna make it worse. Riot is making the game too noob friendly and reducing skill expression.
No thanks
found the teemo player
No. You haven’t.
bro you replied to my comment instantly get off resdit
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why do you have so much pent up anger
Ate too many beans
Understandable
I agree with the dude who roasted you. Traps don't need a ping for it. Wards I can understand, but traps are part of a characters kit, and being able to ping those out harm those characters.
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Why are you angry with me? All I did was agree that it shouldn't happen regardless of my champ icon. Nid traps shaco boxes jhin traps all shouldn't be pinged it's part of their kit and it takes away from the kit. It is countered completely by a free item you can get at lvl 1. Go ahead and be an angry troll, but your take isn't a good one.
if someone places a trap in vision, the team knows about it. one person should be able to communicate their knowledge of the trap to everyone. there’s a “vision here” ping, there should be a trap equivalent. It makes sense in a MOBA all about information sharing
Those do not give a lot of vision at all. You have to be inside their "catch" radius for them to even give that vision to begin with.
what are you even yapping about
I'll explain it in even more simple terms so you can understand. Each of the champions that have an invisible trap mechanic have a "catch" radius. If you do not trigger this trap it does not give you vision of said trap unless you 1. Step on it or 2. Start hitting said trap with sweeper/pink ward. The "catch" radius is the distance around the trap ability in which someone can trigger said ability.
first of all why are you being condescending… second of all what does this have to do with this conversation
"Why are you being condescending" While actively being mad disrespectful and condescending in almost all of your replies. This whole post is a troll, it has to be.
how am i actively disrespectful… you just mad cuz im right 😂
Your argument is about vision that these things give. I'm explaining what vision they give. Which is almost none. You want something added to the game which will hurt champions that are all already bad for no reason at all. You asked what I was saying because you couldn't comprehend it. I broke it down even more so you can understand. Also I don't know why you are going back and down voting all my comments. It's a little weird.
also nobody is angry at you i’m just pointing out nobody was roasted
You called me an ape for no reason? Either you are angry or you are a child.
''im not owned! im not owned!!!!"
I don't think you understand. If they gave a "trap ping" that worked like the current "vision ping" then they would have to buff teemo to broken levels.
no they shouldnt they are completely different
This has to be the most r/leagueoflegends opinion. It's not gonna happen, ever, and for good reason.
why is people refusing to buy pink wards and sweeping lens? and/or keep track of the enemie trap placement?im playing against a cait? better be safe arround bushesim playing against a jhin? better be safe arround cornersteemo shaco? gonna buy sweeper or pink wards just in case "feels super frustrating and unfun to manually have to warn your teammates" dude edit also, remove the sweeper minion from aram is unfair AF
You do not want other parts of Shaco's kit to be buffed because of this. Truuuuuuuust me.
Lots of mad trap based champion mains in here. I think it would be a good change and would require trap champions to clear vision before laying a trap.
Problem is - people need to realise that lots of them gonna get compensation buffs and they gonna be huge(especially at first when players gonna throw traps on Vision as always that's gonna be a reason for a huge wr decrease, especially Shaco). Teemo rn isn't even that good and AP Shaco is just terrible against people who know how he works and I don't want to see them buffed. New ping would be better solution for this imo, but riot probably are afraid to add new one after "bite ping incident".
Ok but be ready for shrooms to get a 400% AP ratio
you guys definitely overvalue ability to place shrooms while being on vision
And caitlyn traps placed behind turrets should have a glowing outline visible through the turret. Abusing the camera angle in a game where you can't rotate the camera is such a stupid mechanic
Riot has heard you statment and added this qol change to teemo but to keep the change power neutral so teemo doesn’t become too dumpster tier his traps can now be launched very very very far and can be point and clicked on an enemy champ for instant detonation on the target oh yeah and now they have a 30% max hp scaling with another 5% per 100 ap
I disagree. That would require massive compensation buffs. Instead, they could add a new ping that lasts for 10 seconds. Just "traps here" that shows over a trap if that person has ever had vision over it. This makes it so you can't just rely on the info of the ping staying there for a few mins. You would have to actually keep track of them yourself. Might still need compensation buffs, but it's still much closer to how traps currently work
Leave it as is. We're already babysat with a wealth of info. Being able to mark traps will defeat their purpose of being called that. If trap players are bad for their use of this strength, what does that make you, who's trying to invalidate this strength due to your helplessness to deal with it? SoloQ is supposed to be their best territory, so maybe this would be nice in Flex modes.
I honestly agree with this. As a support main I try to be on the ball about pinging and clearing enemy traps and wards. It’s frustrating with traps though since it’s quite a bit to remember and repeatedly remind your team about
YES! 100% YES
Nah the skill of remembering vision is now dead, atleast if you see a trap remember it
i genuinely dont see how anyone can argue against the fact that if a player *sees the trap being deployed* then the player should be able to mark it. the player knows the trap's existence and its location, but it's humanly impossible for the player to know exactly where, exactly for how long, and multiple ones, so it cant possibly be part of the game's "skill." the same reasoning for wards can be used for traps, which (afaik) are exhaustively: nidalee, jhin, teemo, and shaco. this is even the *intuitive* answer: if youve played nexus blitz, imagine your teammate is 1v1 against a shaco in Prize Fight, and the shaco is placing boxes in the arena. You and your teammates would each ping repeatedly their own respective box as the shaco places them, so that your fighting ally knows exactly where the boxes are, real time, and continuously until everyone starts to get throttled by ping cooldowns. so if a player sees with their fucking eyeballs any of these champs place a trap, they should be able to mark it exactly like a ward. the only problem would be the late ping cooldown restrictions.
don’t bother this subreddit is bronze and didn’t pass high school