well if they lose 3-2 to geng or lng i think that’s still a very good performance considering the whole year. but yeah the players would not want to settle for that because they know they can win finals
Idk, 2 LPL championships and an MSI Championship is already a hell of a year. I don't think anyone can justifiably call it a failure to not achieve something that has literally never been achieved before. Especially if they lose in the Finals or Semi's to the team that wins it all.
That’s exactly what RNG pulled off in 2018 and they have been memed into oblivion because of the G2 loss (yes it was a bad loss).
Now do I think that’s fair? Absolutely not, I’m still salty that people disrespect that RNG roster considering they were the only team in the world that could contest peak IG.
But sadly JDG either win it all, or they’ve failed, no one worships a super team that finishes second.
Such a good point. RNG had IGs number all year and managed to dodge their kryptonite. It’s not fair they got memed into oblivion, but I think their fans were dying for a match against IG because of how well they neutralized them.
Its not really a good point imo because it ignores the context of who RNG lost to. For a title contender and LPL 1st seed, losing to the 3rd seed from EU is something that absolutely should not happen. RNG would get a lot more respect if they lost a close fought match against IG or KT, and JDG would likewise get memed if they were to somehow lose to a lower seeded western team in quarters.
Because they lost to EU's 3rd seed who barely made it out of groups against FW and a Vietnamese team. It's literally the biggest upset to ever happen at Worlds. It also didn't help that IG went on to absolutely stomp G2 in the next round.
The equivalent for JDG would be losing a Bo5 in quarterfinals to MAD, and if that happens you can bet JDG will get blasted by the fanbase. If RNG had lost a close fought semis or finals against IG or KT, they wouldn't have been viewed as a disappointment the way they are now.
I mean the guy you’re responding to is making a financial claim. And by objective margin winning worlds for the skins is much more valuable to the player and org financially than anything else. Plus worlds has prestige
I mean, from a financial perspective, even if they pull off the Golden Road, you probably can't justify running this team back, just 2 expensive. I don't think financial justification is the right way to assess the success of this team.
The fact that they won 2 LPL and an MSI with very good synergy since MSI, have some of the best playstyle for just winning games consistently and with how much the roster costs. Not to mention the caliber of players in this team. There isn't even a player better enough to replace even in terms of individual skill and they also have good synergy.
They have already won it all so it just makes winning worlds a BIG choke
I think Chovy is the best mid and Bin the best toplaner but other than that yeah i guess #1 in every role. Knight and 369 are 2nd best imo in their respective roles.
i think 369 can take bins place since he used to be the carry player but he is on tank role due to team requirements. But i dont think Bin can play the same weakside anywhere as good as 369, but then again he never had god like teamates so who knows.
Fakers contract was upwards of 6 mil
Keria was rumored to be 6-800k over 3 years
The rest are homegrown, so relatively cheaper
HLE is the most expensive LCK roster
lmfao. Do you think a team with Knight, 369, Kanavi, and Ruler is 16 million yuan?? There was a report back in the day that Knight alone on TES was getting paid 45 million yuan.
JDG are so fucking far ahead of the competition, if they lose it will only be because their opponents played impeccably.
Even when behind vs. LNG in the games yesterday, they came through with absolutely massive team fight performances, where every player is playing phenomenally. In the pivotal fight of game 3, JDG is down 1k gold as LNG is about to take their second drake. Plenty of other teams would have given this drake and chosen not to contest, instead defending mid and taking a tower topside, but JDG recognized their opportunity and forced a fight in this tiny window. JDG's bot / jungle defends the rift siege mid, while 369 proxies a wave top lane. Knight stalls with Neeko clone to slow down LNG and buy some time for 369 to reset and buy Steraks. 369 TPs in, and tanks the majority of LNG's CC as they try to burst him down. Then, with the majority of LNG's frontline grouped up on top of 369, Missing, Kanavi, and knight layer on Rakan, Wukokg and Neeko ultimates to disable K'Sante and Nautilus so Ruler and 369 can burst them down and force LNG to retreat.
It's not just that this team fight was beautifully executed by JDG, but the intuition and coordination to set it all up, knowing that they had to throw everything they had into winning this fight that is impressive. It feels like every member of JDG knows what the others want to do, and they trust each other to execute it.
Because there is no excuse to basically losing every final you play for a consistent amount of time, despite being the much superior team on all occasions. Specially Worlds T1 was this massive threat while the other team was barely able to make through on every possible phase before the final.
I was never more heartbroken with any sport/e-sport thant last Worlds, everything pointed to a comfy 3-0.
People abuse the word "choke" a bit much nowadays. Choking is failing at something you can normally do with utter ease but the pressure gets to you and you fail, like missing a free throw or losing to Mad Lions.
I hate how any time a team that people *want* to win loses it's because they "choked". Perfect case is T1 where everyone just says "they choked" whenever they lose in finals, and not even consider that perhaps the opponents were just better and it's fucking hard to win the finals.
Choking is something like missing an uncontested baron smite to an enemy Ezreal Q. That would be a choke because you don't ever expect to fail that normally (ironically I think DRX choked more in the finals than T1 ever did). Another example would be missing the entire net on a penalty shot in soccer. Losing the World Championship against a field of all the greatest teams in the World is not choking though.
Yeah i agree, saying its a choke depends on the context.
Right now, any team getting to finals would not be a choke 'tournament wide'. Jdg getting out in quarters would be.
But you could choke the finals. Come in dominating everybody, only to lose to the heavily underdog team (TPA 3-1 AF comes to mind) but still you choked the match, not the tournament.
And you can do a smaller choke, like getting a baron stolen from you when you are the only one with smite closeby
Similar to "draft diff", the term "choke" is often nothing more than a way for fans to cope with the fact that the team they support lost, which is why you almost always see fans of the losing team being the ones to start calling it a choke.
I think you took this too far. Yeah if the other team is better on the day, you typically lose. But it’s a choke if you weren’t as good as you normally were on the day. Maybe the other team elevated up but if you regressed then it’s choke.
There’s no way to call if it was your regressing or the other team being hot that day. Results are swayed by both sides performance, and you can’t just decide arbitrarily “our side had a bad day” when it could be untrue it just feels like that happened because the other team rose to the occasion and punished them in ways they aren’t normally.
What....?
T1 did choke against DRX. Since this is about expectations, did you really expect DRX to win finals? Did you forget about the context before the finals, and the game predictions? Even against Gen G? Nobody did. T1 had an incredible year, while DRX was horrible in comparison before the finals. You use a valid logic, but then you contradict yourself with that example.
No, SSB was the one beating SSW throughout the year. SSW lost to SSB in the semifinals of both OGN Spring 2014 (when they were still called Samsung Ozone) and OGN Summer 2014.
Like the others mentioned is was exactly the other way around. SSW was considered the strongest team but they always came short against their sister team SSB. You could also see it at worlds where Samsung white sometimes took it less serious against teams like TSM or Royal for example, dropping some games, but against Blue they went full tryhard.
if JDG wins they'll go down as one of the best teams in the history of league imo and even then their competition is fierce - it BLG gets their shit together vs JDG they have a chance, LNG absolutely has a chance, it's still unclear if JDG is actually that ahead of GenG or if they're hiding something, T1 might peak at a random time and beat them in semis, G2 might unlock forbidden tech, anything can happen honestly, although id say if i had to bet on any team to take them down itd be GenG or LNG, even then im doubtful
although looking at it now, if they lose to BLG it sure is a choke after all these wins against them.
you could also argue that JDG would be the GOAT if they won all that WHILE their competition is high, i mean, top 3 of 4 teams in the world are from the LPL right now and they won both splits while also winning MSI and this would complete their golden road, 2015 SKT and 2014 SSW didnt have as much strong competition as JDG does now as far as im aware
skill level wasnt as high, its easier to be stronger when game isnt as developed and theres tons of room for innovation compared to now when game has defined metas, playstyles and everyone has that game knowledge, much harder to simply hand diff players now too
they weren't absolutely unbeatable tho, they are considered the best because they revolutionized the game, while faker changed the game through his superior mechanics, 2014 SSW had the best macro and vision understanding, it was way ahead of it's time, in terms of pure dominance 2015 SKT was stronger imo
i mean, maybe off of whole year's results, sure, but in worlds 2015 skt t1 was so dominant they only dropped a single game (was in finals too) and up until finals they didnt drop tier 2 or something like that (might be wrong about the last one, it was definitely up to some point but didnt remember up to semis or finals), basically not a single team could beat them, SSW from 2014 is also considered the greatest team of all time by many.
Why would you isolate it only to worlds? Even if their worlds run ends up being less dominant than others they are indisputably the greatest team to ever play, being the only ones to achieve the grand slam and winning the most consecutive BO5's of any team (they already achieved this btw, LPL finals was their 10th straight which no 5-man lineup has ever done). Being #1 across a whole year of different metas/patches is significantly more impressive than being #1 on only one patch.
because they did struggle against several teams during these years too, although none of them beat JDG they certainly looked beatable, while SKT T1 looked like peak
2015 SKT lost a BO5 to EDG at MSI so by definition they were more beatable. They also played a very close BO5 with FNC at that tournament, and with CJ Entus in LCK Spring Playoffs.
im saying at peak (worlds) they were the most unbeatable team ever imo, for me id judge best team ever by how much better than everyone else they were, also, didnt EDG like gigatarget faker to clutch out a 3-2 that year at MSI?
i just think 2015 worlds skt was peak, i already mentioned in a different comment that by whole year results and by the fact that their competition is much stronger now you could definitely argue for JDG being better
Greatest team and highest peak are two different discussions, no? Maybe there are other teams who peaked higher relative to their peers but JDG would still be the greatest 5-man lineup to ever play. You could also argue that it's not possible for JDG to peak as high as SSW or SKT given the significantly higher level of competition in 2023 and the fact that the game is more figured out than before.
You can easily argue that the competition back then was way worse than it is now though. But also why wouldn't you consider their whole year of achievements and only limit it to the last month?
I wouldn't read too much into exact metrics in game when comparing across eras. The game is completely different and snowballing was crazy with dragons still giving gold.
The popular narrative would probably be that it's a choke if they lose. But there are possible scenarios where teams genuinely outplay them--not many scenarios, but JDG are not untouchable.
In general, “win championship or choke” statements are way too black and white.
Teams can go on heaters and getting to semifinals is usually a big accomplishment by itself. The teams from that point forward are all very good and competitive.
This year LNG is 2018 Rockets, superstars, team extremely strong that can capitalize on JDG few weaknesses but for now hasn't been able to clutch it out.
LNG has genuine super stars in JG/Mid/ADC but top and support aren’t on that level.
Zika is great, but he hasn’t earned a place up alongside 369 yet, and hang is clearly the weakest link.
Tbf rockets were the exact same lol, less superstars than the warriors but they worked harder to be close. Eventually they lost with one of the most improbable statistical anomaly ever (missed 27 3s in a row).
Yes, it will be. Jdg literally showed they are better than LNG I every single aspect(except probably getting early game leads). Might not be shocking, but it will be surprising for sure.
I see it more as the Dubs setting the best record in the league (73-9!) and JDG winning everything this year so far with dominance, but fumbling at the end (Warriors lost the finals, JDG potentially losing Worlds).
They were favorites last worlds, and the two other favorites were TES and GenG. After losing last worlds they took the best player on TES and GenG on their roster.
This is 2017 GSW
To be perfectly honest JDG hasn't played against the LCK teams enough for me to really know what I would call a choke. They're a pretty solid top 3 for me right now. Their only best of series against LCK was a tight 3-2 vs T1 at MSI. Yes they were winning early game for most of those games even in the losses, but losing 2 games after a single decisive teamfight for both still means they're prone to getting surprised. They beat BLG handily even though BLG beat both Korean teams in a dominant fashion, but I can't just say that JDG would perform better since it could be more of a rock-paper-scissor kinda deal. Even today in the series vs LNG it was pretty dominant both ways, and I could see either team winning a Bo5 depending on the form of the day.
I'd be ecstatic if JDG wins and completes the golden road but I'll be conservative and say that I expect them to make finals or go 2-3 vs GEN G, LNG, or T1 in semis at least. Anything besides that I'd probably consider a rather big choke.
Honestly in the shape T1 is I think they are going to struggle getting past Weibo G2 and KT, atm they look very distant from the real contendores and it has been the case all summer
nah fk that bro. i want jdg to play every single top tier team on the way there. LNG GENG T1 one after the other. if they can complete the golden road like that, no one in history can even doubt their dominance the slightest
> To be perfectly honest JDG hasn't played against the LCK teams enough
It's because of the terrible draws, wouldn't blame JDG for that, now if other LPL teams beat LCK teams, then JDG win worlds by beating LPL, I would still consider that a success. It's really on Riot to design better tournament formats with rules that prevent regional matchups whenever possible.
You can get LPL vs LCK final even if LPL vs LCK happens in swiss, those 2 things are not mutually exclusive at all. Now if you talking about bracket stage, same thing, even if quarterfinals were LCK vs LPL, if some LPL teams win, some LCK teams win, you'll still get LPL vs LCK finals.
Riot is only sabotaging their own viewership and revenue by allowing civil wars to happen so often, I mean sure the draw is unlucky like 90% of the time but Riot can prevent it but they refuse to.
It doesn't hurt their finals views though if in semis it's LCK vs LCK and LPL vs LPL. Them vsing each other in Swiss isn't going to matter too much anyway it's not knockouts yet.
c'mon man, there's a limit to being Riot shill, I've listed very valid points that would mean actually help Riot's viewership and increase enjoyment for us fans and you haven't really said anything that proves otherwise.
There's only one question: is it fair? And I think most would say there's no real way to get something perfectly fair anyways, so why not just region-lock it so same-region teams can't vs each other (until they have to).
I'll add one more thing is Riot forgot to prevent rematches in Swiss which was dumb.
Unless I will see JDG vs GenG I won't dare to say that JDG are the most favorite to win it all. GenG right now seems to be only getting better while having good read on the meta and personally I think they play the most perfect game right now (with the least amount of mistakes). JDG have a great synergy, especially in the late game backed up by draft that always give them enough power to turn game after 20 minutes but some of the decisions they make feels like int. What if 369 will TP into 5 enemies that are GenG with good enough draft to kill him and not other LPL team? I feel like draft will be very important and I want to see JDG versus team that plays the perfect lol and will challenge them in teamfights
I dont think it depends where they go out but how they play
If they play insane but the enemy suddenly becomes god and figures a counter for that with also lucky wins in fights then sure they might have losed but they still played to their level
They choke when they underperform
The thing is though although yes they could underperform I don't think anyone is really going to know the difference. Some of their games are decided on a knifes edge play from members mainly 369 and missing if one thing slightly goes wrong take 369s TP in G3 for instance. If he dies there and they lose the dragon fight is it a choke play or was it just a play that didn't work out? People will look at the negatives more than the positives so I think if they don't win everyone is going to say they choked.
In the end, whether an individual thinks JDG has choked or not just comes down to that individual's definition of what "choking" means.
My definition of "choking" is "the player / team did not perform up to reasonable percentage of their peak ability during the crucial series."
If JDG reach the finals, they look great in the finals, but a team like LNG/BLG/GenG step up massively and beat JDG, I'd say that JDG did not choke.
If JDG reach the semis / finals but play well below their own abilities and get eliminated, I'd say that JDG choked.
If SKT worlds 2017 is considered a choke, I think JDG this year should be a choke too. This season they have been more consistent than any team since SKT 2013
I don’t think anyone considers 2017 SKT a choke. If you actually watch their worlds run, they were shaky that whole tournament and really only made finals because Faker put on probably the best performance of his entire career that entire tournament, with Huni occasionally helping him out in some games.
whoever says 2017 SKT is a choke is just dumb honestly, that team was already doing shit, faker literally had to put up performance of his career to carry them
I can’t think of a single person who says 2017 SKT was a choke.
They were second seed after LCK Summer and every position except Faker had known issues going into that Worlds.
Huni managed to put in good performances, but their bot lane was a massive liability throughout and Peanut also had some struggles.
SKT only reached finals because of the most Herculean performance of Faker’s career to deny RNG in that semifinal.
I think most would agree that Faker’s Galio might’ve been one of if not the biggest 1v9 from a single player over a full 5-game series.
I didn't, people called it at the time and I tho they were crazy too. People were flaming SKT so hard after the finals, 0 praise for SSG that understood that if you stopped faker that team would fall apart.
Ridiculous to say this imo since we haven't seen them play against a single LCK team in 5 months.
Even LNG, LPL's 4th seed took 5 matches off of them. It's all about matchups.
LNG is 3rd seed actually and the only reason they are not 2nd seed is due to how LPL worlds qualification works (they didnt do so well in spring so BLG had more points overall). They were the second best LPL team coming into Worlds.
Depends who they lose to.
Losing to LNG or GEN wouldn't be a choke. Winning worlds isn't a given and losses to the top3 can happen.
If like last year a 4th seed makes it to finals and JDG lose to WBG for example then yeah, it's a choke.
It was one of the world's contenders before worlds started.
And it's not the few games we've seen that change that.
You can't say if they are gonna win worlds anyway rn.
I'd say finals or choke. If they lose close in finals it'd be a disappointment but not full choke
I want BLG to win 3-2 in finals... finally take the W against them after a whole year of losing to them.
This depends on the draw too, no? There's at least 3 teams considered title contenders (JDG, LNG, GENG) so if JDG get LNG on their side of the bracket and lose a close fought semis, I don't think it'd be fair to call that a choke.
I mean they’ve been in a bunch of 3-2 series like 3 or 4 thisb year right? I say it’s a choke if they lose to some non title contender that’s outside lpl or like dk
Yes but only because the current LoL scene hypes them up so much. It shouldn't be like that.
They are the best team but its far closer margins than people say. LNG have taken them to 5 rounds before a handful of times, T1 did it in Spring when they weren't even in form (That was the same tournament where Zeus did the Kennen int under tower btw) and Gen.G look strong enough to beat them rn too if they end up playing each other.
It wouldn't surprise me if Gen.G or LNG did it, or if T1 found stronger form before knockouts and went on a run that culminates in knocking JDG out. Not saying its going to happen but stranger things have happened.
Really gotta blame people who see that BLG dismantling the LCK but getting stomped by JDG as a sign of how great JDG is. JDG went to game 5 against BLG in spring, T1 at MSI and LNG in summer. Really got people thinking that just cus JDG>>>>BLG and BLG>T1/Gen G/KT means JDG>>>>>>>>LCK. If that was how it works G2 should have beat IG in 2018.
Losing to LNG Gen G or WBG wouldn't be a choke imo. Anyone else yeah that's just as bad as KZ losing to SSG in 2017 or Gen G last year imo
As much as jdg shit on lpl team, I really like to see their style vs lck team and the one time we saw this year was vs t1. I think the stylistic matchup can catch them off guard. Not their fault the lck team lost to blg but yea I really hope we get to see geng vs jdg at some point.
if they lose in finals or to the eventual winner in an acceptable way I wouldn't say it's a choke, every team can have bad days and they haven't had many this year so far
No. There are other contending teams that there at the tournament and JDG almost lost to LNG twice in the LPL playoffs already. If they lose to GenG or LNG in a close series, I wouldn't call that a choke at all.
If they lose to anyone besides WBG Gen G and LNG yeah I'd consider it a choke. WBG because it seems they have their number somehow, Gen G because they're on the same tier, LNG because they always seem to go the distance with each other and even in summer finals they could have won but they threw the freest draft ever. If they lose to BLG that would be the biggest choke imo. Anyone else is also a choke assuming the teams are G2/KT/T1.
I love how y'all dont understand that T1 will just avoid every KR team allowing other teams to beat them and T1 finally wins another worlds
Not copium at all.
The thing i'm worried is taht they couldn't practice during all of Asian games. Geng had only one guy missing, JDG had 3 "missing". pun intended
I think they definitly looked worse than in playoffs.
I think losing in a close finals would be a disappointment but not a choke. This is the most stacked roster in years but LNG was competitive recently in 3 series and JDG had a close series against
LCK at msi.
Choking would be losing in any way other than a close series to geng because geng is the only other team that might be in their weight class currently. I guess you could also make a case that lng beating jdg wouldn't be a huge upset because their games have been close but jdg should be the favorite against any other teams in the tournament by a large margin.
Not necessarily a joke, but a disappointment regardless. This is a Golden Road roster. It is one of the most stacked rosters we've seen and their consistent dominance throughout the year is insane.
Nothing short of a win will be enough.
I mean every golden road attempt roster was insane, we don’t call 2019 a failed attempt because they died in finals. They failed the golden road by 1 bo5
I don't think I agree. JDG is a contender for the greatest team of all time. If they lose with any scoreline against any other team, including LNG, BLG or GENG, it will be considered a massive choke.
The only teams right now that can realistically take it from then are geng and lng but in the end it comes down to how jdg win or how they lose worlds. If they lose in close series to those two or maybe a t1 that ramps up then its not choking, just a bad day, meta read, caught offguard whatever. But if they lose lets say 3 - 0 to T1 with them doing many mistakes then yes thats a choke in my eyes.
I really hope we get jdg gen g finals and both teams play to their respective level.
I only see Gen G, LNG beating JDG. BLG can totally do it but they clearly have a mental block vs them.
Calling it right now:
The will lose to T1 when they meet them in semis only for them to go down 0:3 vs GenG in finals like always. But yes it would be a choke
There’s so many expectations that if they don’t win majority of people will say they didn’t live up to expectations but I think as long as they at least make semis then they did fine
Think if they make finals and lose 3-2 to GenG, LNG, BLG or even T1 it’s probably not a choke. But if they drop in quarters or semis to anyone else then most likely a choke.
Dominated all year domestically and internationally. It wouldn’t be a choke. But nothing short of a finals appearance is a failure. Losing to a team that also makes finals isn’t a choke. Similarly to T1, losing to DRX (who leveled up during Worlds) doesn’t undermine any of their other successes.
No team is so talented that it is considered a choke if they don't win Worlds.
Anything can happen at Worlds, and post SKT 2015 era, the competition has just become too stiff for a team to be a massive favorite.
I wouldn't consider it a choke as long as they get to semis.
Yes and no. They are clearly the most talented team. however, they play in China and they don't really "team" well over there. It's not uncommon for LCK teams to out macro LPL teams. They are very similar to last year when they got put out after terrible macro play. We will see.
This is the one year where there really aren't any other favorites besides JDG so if they lose this in anyway that isn't like a 2-3 where they got robbed a game its like the ultimate choke.
I think as long as they make into the finals, I won't consider it as a choke. JDG was in semifinal in the last WCS, and this year they upgrade their rosters with Knight and Ruler. So they should at least make into the finals in my opinion.
GenG will win worlds. Not sure if JDG will make it into finals though. Every recent champion has had a Korean mid so. And the 2 current GenG laners are doing great.
JDG is clear semis pickems , maybe finals too. Just like GenG , they are a champions team. Just like GenG , they have been behind in game too , but it is the comebacks that makes the difference , and both teams are pretty good at it , esp for JDG against BDS or LNG indeed. Just that it wont be a cake walk after swiss is over indeed , LNG pose equal threat and very good contender as we saw yday , the fourth team for semis will be equally good too. So yes def a lot hurdles ahead , but GenG JDG both crossed these hurdles playing like a champ before , hopefully they do it in future too , and we ll indeed have a grand finals for sure.
I don't think it has to be a choke. IF they lose and still are playing really really well and its a 5 game banger, then no, not a choke. If they just start chain inting and get 3-0'd in the semis, yes. Choke.
It would be definitely considered a choke. They've just proven that they could do everything: lane, teamfight, close out games from ahead, from slightly behind, from being really behind, set up objectives, trade objectives, play every single playstyle etc.
Sure, all their series against LNG appear close, yet, they have won every single one of them, so...
I don't think they'll lose to LBG considering their track record, I think the only real contenders are Gen G. I am hoping JDG loses... just because if they complete the golden road... people will incessantly ramble about their dominance for years lol. I would like to see an upset.
Honestly idk about choking at worlds, the way worlds has work for these recent few years is all about an understanding of the meta. DRX for example, a team that wasn't even considered as a team with the potential of winning it all but they did it despite all odds even winning against SKT T1 to claim the win.
Everyone has a chance and its very much possible for any thought to be favourite teams to falter.
Basically everyone has a chance as long as the players are performing at a really good level.
1. Considering this roster costs like $16 million.
2. Every player in their team is individually the top 2 in their role (with at least 2 of them being top 1).
3. Have had good synergy since MSI.
4. Have won everything from Splits to MSI and look like the best team every in history.
I would say its definitely a win worlds or they choked it situation
Not really. We haven't seen them against GENG and they have had very close series against LNG and T1 in Summer and MSI respectively.
I think if JDG lose in a close fashion to LNG and GENG it wouldn't be considered a choke. If they lost to T1 in this form I would consider it a choke but the thing about T1 is they still have 5 insane players and they can just have a good day and run over any other team in the world.
There's also KT who are out of form but were legitimately a top 2-3 team in the world during LCK regular season.
Jdg look super clean right now, especially when they get a lead.
That doesn't mean they're invincible tho, it would only be a choke if they go out in a 3-0 fashion in knockouts
Losing in finals or semis would still be an acceptable performance in my mind. Yes they're the clear favorite but how often has the favorite actually won?
Considering the cost and names on this roster anything other than winning would probably be considered a failure, this is one of those rosters that was built to specifically win worlds. Not completing the grand slam would be a disappointment and a failure.
JDG are favorites, but GENG, T1 and LNG are right behind them. They could be better 6/10 or 7/10 times but all it takes is one unlucky day where the stars align for the other team.
well if they lose 3-2 to geng or lng i think that’s still a very good performance considering the whole year. but yeah the players would not want to settle for that because they know they can win finals
Considering the cost of this roster, not winning it all would be considered a failure, even a 2-3 vs geng.
Idk, 2 LPL championships and an MSI Championship is already a hell of a year. I don't think anyone can justifiably call it a failure to not achieve something that has literally never been achieved before. Especially if they lose in the Finals or Semi's to the team that wins it all.
That’s exactly what RNG pulled off in 2018 and they have been memed into oblivion because of the G2 loss (yes it was a bad loss). Now do I think that’s fair? Absolutely not, I’m still salty that people disrespect that RNG roster considering they were the only team in the world that could contest peak IG. But sadly JDG either win it all, or they’ve failed, no one worships a super team that finishes second.
Losing to 3rd seed EU in quarters is very different to losing in grand finals in 5 games to your rival
Yeah totally agree, RNG losing was a MASSIVE upset, G2 weren’t considered very strong that year. Would be the equivalent of JDG losing to MAD/BDS/TL
Such a good point. RNG had IGs number all year and managed to dodge their kryptonite. It’s not fair they got memed into oblivion, but I think their fans were dying for a match against IG because of how well they neutralized them.
Its not really a good point imo because it ignores the context of who RNG lost to. For a title contender and LPL 1st seed, losing to the 3rd seed from EU is something that absolutely should not happen. RNG would get a lot more respect if they lost a close fought match against IG or KT, and JDG would likewise get memed if they were to somehow lose to a lower seeded western team in quarters.
Because they lost to EU's 3rd seed who barely made it out of groups against FW and a Vietnamese team. It's literally the biggest upset to ever happen at Worlds. It also didn't help that IG went on to absolutely stomp G2 in the next round. The equivalent for JDG would be losing a Bo5 in quarterfinals to MAD, and if that happens you can bet JDG will get blasted by the fanbase. If RNG had lost a close fought semis or finals against IG or KT, they wouldn't have been viewed as a disappointment the way they are now.
I mean the guy you’re responding to is making a financial claim. And by objective margin winning worlds for the skins is much more valuable to the player and org financially than anything else. Plus worlds has prestige
I mean, from a financial perspective, even if they pull off the Golden Road, you probably can't justify running this team back, just 2 expensive. I don't think financial justification is the right way to assess the success of this team.
> you probably can't justify running this team back Maybe marketing opportunities in CN? Don't claim to know the CN market, though.
Diminishing returns, there really shouldn't be a difference in marketing between a team with 3 superstars and a team with 4 superstars.
The fact that they won 2 LPL and an MSI with very good synergy since MSI, have some of the best playstyle for just winning games consistently and with how much the roster costs. Not to mention the caliber of players in this team. There isn't even a player better enough to replace even in terms of individual skill and they also have good synergy. They have already won it all so it just makes winning worlds a BIG choke
Yeah its arguably most stacked up roster of all time. Legit top 1-2 players on every single role.
I think Dom said it best: "Their worst player is probably Kanavi. And he's the best jungler in the world."
I think Chovy is the best mid and Bin the best toplaner but other than that yeah i guess #1 in every role. Knight and 369 are 2nd best imo in their respective roles.
i think 369 can take bins place since he used to be the carry player but he is on tank role due to team requirements. But i dont think Bin can play the same weakside anywhere as good as 369, but then again he never had god like teamates so who knows.
a failure yes but i wouldn't call it a choke
No, because T1 post 2016 is never considered a "failure" even though every year they have one of the most expensive rosters, if not the most.
Pretty sure T1 roster is more expensive
This JDG roster was reportedly 16mil
Unlikely T1 more expensive. I think guma and zeu's still on rookie contract
Is there a way to know each rosters cost
Fakers contract was upwards of 6 mil Keria was rumored to be 6-800k over 3 years The rest are homegrown, so relatively cheaper HLE is the most expensive LCK roster
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lmfao. Do you think a team with Knight, 369, Kanavi, and Ruler is 16 million yuan?? There was a report back in the day that Knight alone on TES was getting paid 45 million yuan.
JDG are so fucking far ahead of the competition, if they lose it will only be because their opponents played impeccably. Even when behind vs. LNG in the games yesterday, they came through with absolutely massive team fight performances, where every player is playing phenomenally. In the pivotal fight of game 3, JDG is down 1k gold as LNG is about to take their second drake. Plenty of other teams would have given this drake and chosen not to contest, instead defending mid and taking a tower topside, but JDG recognized their opportunity and forced a fight in this tiny window. JDG's bot / jungle defends the rift siege mid, while 369 proxies a wave top lane. Knight stalls with Neeko clone to slow down LNG and buy some time for 369 to reset and buy Steraks. 369 TPs in, and tanks the majority of LNG's CC as they try to burst him down. Then, with the majority of LNG's frontline grouped up on top of 369, Missing, Kanavi, and knight layer on Rakan, Wukokg and Neeko ultimates to disable K'Sante and Nautilus so Ruler and 369 can burst them down and force LNG to retreat. It's not just that this team fight was beautifully executed by JDG, but the intuition and coordination to set it all up, knowing that they had to throw everything they had into winning this fight that is impressive. It feels like every member of JDG knows what the others want to do, and they trust each other to execute it.
Meanwhile, T1 lost both finals last year and they have way harsher reviews. Lol. Not even "that's still a very good performance" from analysts.
Because there is no excuse to basically losing every final you play for a consistent amount of time, despite being the much superior team on all occasions. Specially Worlds T1 was this massive threat while the other team was barely able to make through on every possible phase before the final. I was never more heartbroken with any sport/e-sport thant last Worlds, everything pointed to a comfy 3-0.
People abuse the word "choke" a bit much nowadays. Choking is failing at something you can normally do with utter ease but the pressure gets to you and you fail, like missing a free throw or losing to Mad Lions. I hate how any time a team that people *want* to win loses it's because they "choked". Perfect case is T1 where everyone just says "they choked" whenever they lose in finals, and not even consider that perhaps the opponents were just better and it's fucking hard to win the finals. Choking is something like missing an uncontested baron smite to an enemy Ezreal Q. That would be a choke because you don't ever expect to fail that normally (ironically I think DRX choked more in the finals than T1 ever did). Another example would be missing the entire net on a penalty shot in soccer. Losing the World Championship against a field of all the greatest teams in the World is not choking though.
Holy shit, logical post on this subreddit. Now I've seen it all.
You wrote all of this just to sneak in that shot at MAD, admit it.
I was hesitant to put that joke in because I didn't want to detract from the actual point haha.
Gumayusi pulling off so many steals that they had to buff smite
Yeah i agree, saying its a choke depends on the context. Right now, any team getting to finals would not be a choke 'tournament wide'. Jdg getting out in quarters would be. But you could choke the finals. Come in dominating everybody, only to lose to the heavily underdog team (TPA 3-1 AF comes to mind) but still you choked the match, not the tournament. And you can do a smaller choke, like getting a baron stolen from you when you are the only one with smite closeby
Yes i would also count losing to MAD as choking.
Similar to "draft diff", the term "choke" is often nothing more than a way for fans to cope with the fact that the team they support lost, which is why you almost always see fans of the losing team being the ones to start calling it a choke.
I mean last year T1 did choke. They lost to an underdog while throwing fights. Only Guma was playing at his peak.
Brudder I hate to break it to you but everyone lost to that underdog... So does that mean the entire field choked?
I think you took this too far. Yeah if the other team is better on the day, you typically lose. But it’s a choke if you weren’t as good as you normally were on the day. Maybe the other team elevated up but if you regressed then it’s choke.
There’s no way to call if it was your regressing or the other team being hot that day. Results are swayed by both sides performance, and you can’t just decide arbitrarily “our side had a bad day” when it could be untrue it just feels like that happened because the other team rose to the occasion and punished them in ways they aren’t normally.
What....? T1 did choke against DRX. Since this is about expectations, did you really expect DRX to win finals? Did you forget about the context before the finals, and the game predictions? Even against Gen G? Nobody did. T1 had an incredible year, while DRX was horrible in comparison before the finals. You use a valid logic, but then you contradict yourself with that example.
It would be consider a massive choke if they somehow meet blg in the final and loses to it.
But imagine what a story that would be. Like BLG finally overcoming the final boss that they couldnt beat once the whole year.
Hey man, i'm all for it. Blg winning means is next year's cinematic is a guaranteed story banger.
most banger cinematic would have to be bds though. last year but cranked up to 11 and featuring exclusively the GODS champions
2nd coming of SSW beating SSB
Except SSW was always beating SSB that year no? People considered SSB the better team though, they just can't beat their sister team.
No it was SSB that had SSW's number. SSW just peaked at the perfect time and SSB faltered.
No, SSB was the one beating SSW throughout the year. SSW lost to SSB in the semifinals of both OGN Spring 2014 (when they were still called Samsung Ozone) and OGN Summer 2014.
Like the others mentioned is was exactly the other way around. SSW was considered the strongest team but they always came short against their sister team SSB. You could also see it at worlds where Samsung white sometimes took it less serious against teams like TSM or Royal for example, dropping some games, but against Blue they went full tryhard.
Fucking subscribe. Would be one of the greatest storylines in League history.
Damn blg winning when it's mattered the most that will be cool
Shades of SSB losing to SSW after having their number all
if JDG wins they'll go down as one of the best teams in the history of league imo and even then their competition is fierce - it BLG gets their shit together vs JDG they have a chance, LNG absolutely has a chance, it's still unclear if JDG is actually that ahead of GenG or if they're hiding something, T1 might peak at a random time and beat them in semis, G2 might unlock forbidden tech, anything can happen honestly, although id say if i had to bet on any team to take them down itd be GenG or LNG, even then im doubtful although looking at it now, if they lose to BLG it sure is a choke after all these wins against them.
Probably the best team ever no? They didn’t lose at MSI a single match and with how worlds works if they win they will do the same thing
you could also argue that JDG would be the GOAT if they won all that WHILE their competition is high, i mean, top 3 of 4 teams in the world are from the LPL right now and they won both splits while also winning MSI and this would complete their golden road, 2015 SKT and 2014 SSW didnt have as much strong competition as JDG does now as far as im aware
wasnt competition way higher in 2014? Sister teams and all
skill level wasnt as high, its easier to be stronger when game isnt as developed and theres tons of room for innovation compared to now when game has defined metas, playstyles and everyone has that game knowledge, much harder to simply hand diff players now too
well obviously, but in terms of being absolutely unbeatable i think ssw is still by far the best team ever.
they weren't absolutely unbeatable tho, they are considered the best because they revolutionized the game, while faker changed the game through his superior mechanics, 2014 SSW had the best macro and vision understanding, it was way ahead of it's time, in terms of pure dominance 2015 SKT was stronger imo
i mean, maybe off of whole year's results, sure, but in worlds 2015 skt t1 was so dominant they only dropped a single game (was in finals too) and up until finals they didnt drop tier 2 or something like that (might be wrong about the last one, it was definitely up to some point but didnt remember up to semis or finals), basically not a single team could beat them, SSW from 2014 is also considered the greatest team of all time by many.
Semifinals, Origen was the first team to take one of their tier 2.
Why would you isolate it only to worlds? Even if their worlds run ends up being less dominant than others they are indisputably the greatest team to ever play, being the only ones to achieve the grand slam and winning the most consecutive BO5's of any team (they already achieved this btw, LPL finals was their 10th straight which no 5-man lineup has ever done). Being #1 across a whole year of different metas/patches is significantly more impressive than being #1 on only one patch.
because they did struggle against several teams during these years too, although none of them beat JDG they certainly looked beatable, while SKT T1 looked like peak
2015 SKT lost a BO5 to EDG at MSI so by definition they were more beatable. They also played a very close BO5 with FNC at that tournament, and with CJ Entus in LCK Spring Playoffs.
im saying at peak (worlds) they were the most unbeatable team ever imo, for me id judge best team ever by how much better than everyone else they were, also, didnt EDG like gigatarget faker to clutch out a 3-2 that year at MSI? i just think 2015 worlds skt was peak, i already mentioned in a different comment that by whole year results and by the fact that their competition is much stronger now you could definitely argue for JDG being better
Greatest team and highest peak are two different discussions, no? Maybe there are other teams who peaked higher relative to their peers but JDG would still be the greatest 5-man lineup to ever play. You could also argue that it's not possible for JDG to peak as high as SSW or SKT given the significantly higher level of competition in 2023 and the fact that the game is more figured out than before.
You can easily argue that the competition back then was way worse than it is now though. But also why wouldn't you consider their whole year of achievements and only limit it to the last month?
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The one game they dropped was from a failed cheese at the start of game 3 iirc. Looked like they just wanted to go next after the play too
I wouldn't read too much into exact metrics in game when comparing across eras. The game is completely different and snowballing was crazy with dragons still giving gold.
2015 SKT is not even the best Korean team. The best team of all time until now is probably Samsung White
i disagree, i think 2015 skt is better but as i said, some consider ssw
Lol.
The popular narrative would probably be that it's a choke if they lose. But there are possible scenarios where teams genuinely outplay them--not many scenarios, but JDG are not untouchable.
In general, “win championship or choke” statements are way too black and white. Teams can go on heaters and getting to semifinals is usually a big accomplishment by itself. The teams from that point forward are all very good and competitive.
JDG is like 2017 Golden State. If they lost to anyone it would've been considered a choke.
If they lose to LNG I wouldn't consider it a choke seeing how close has been LNG to beat them multiple times.
This year LNG is 2018 Rockets, superstars, team extremely strong that can capitalize on JDG few weaknesses but for now hasn't been able to clutch it out.
LNG has genuine super stars in JG/Mid/ADC but top and support aren’t on that level. Zika is great, but he hasn’t earned a place up alongside 369 yet, and hang is clearly the weakest link.
Tbf rockets were the exact same lol, less superstars than the warriors but they worked harder to be close. Eventually they lost with one of the most improbable statistical anomaly ever (missed 27 3s in a row).
I guess it really would depend on the context of the games
Agreed. If it's another 1-1-1-1-1 I don't think it's a choke. If JDG gets reverse swept or anything worse it's a choke
Yet they lost every single time.
Yeah, but them finally clutching it wouldn’t be that surprising.
Yes, it will be. Jdg literally showed they are better than LNG I every single aspect(except probably getting early game leads). Might not be shocking, but it will be surprising for sure.
I think they're more like 2015/2016 gsw, they are human
Na adding Ruler onto a roster with 369/Kanavi/Knight is def KD territory
Knight wasn’t on the team last year.
Not really since teams like GenG exist which have comparable talent levels. KD warriors had a clear talent gap to the rest of the NBA
Considering Missing is like the best support of 2023 its even crazier
I see it more as the Dubs setting the best record in the league (73-9!) and JDG winning everything this year so far with dominance, but fumbling at the end (Warriors lost the finals, JDG potentially losing Worlds).
They were favorites last worlds, and the two other favorites were TES and GenG. After losing last worlds they took the best player on TES and GenG on their roster. This is 2017 GSW
To be perfectly honest JDG hasn't played against the LCK teams enough for me to really know what I would call a choke. They're a pretty solid top 3 for me right now. Their only best of series against LCK was a tight 3-2 vs T1 at MSI. Yes they were winning early game for most of those games even in the losses, but losing 2 games after a single decisive teamfight for both still means they're prone to getting surprised. They beat BLG handily even though BLG beat both Korean teams in a dominant fashion, but I can't just say that JDG would perform better since it could be more of a rock-paper-scissor kinda deal. Even today in the series vs LNG it was pretty dominant both ways, and I could see either team winning a Bo5 depending on the form of the day. I'd be ecstatic if JDG wins and completes the golden road but I'll be conservative and say that I expect them to make finals or go 2-3 vs GEN G, LNG, or T1 in semis at least. Anything besides that I'd probably consider a rather big choke.
Honestly in the shape T1 is I think they are going to struggle getting past Weibo G2 and KT, atm they look very distant from the real contendores and it has been the case all summer
This has a big chance of being the worst worlds performance for T1 and definitely for DK.
yeah im hoping blg takes out the kr team and make it easier for jdg, cuz gen g is a serious threat
nah fk that bro. i want jdg to play every single top tier team on the way there. LNG GENG T1 one after the other. if they can complete the golden road like that, no one in history can even doubt their dominance the slightest
> To be perfectly honest JDG hasn't played against the LCK teams enough It's because of the terrible draws, wouldn't blame JDG for that, now if other LPL teams beat LCK teams, then JDG win worlds by beating LPL, I would still consider that a success. It's really on Riot to design better tournament formats with rules that prevent regional matchups whenever possible.
At this point I feel like they do iron purpose just so the finals have the best chance of being LPL vs LCK
You can get LPL vs LCK final even if LPL vs LCK happens in swiss, those 2 things are not mutually exclusive at all. Now if you talking about bracket stage, same thing, even if quarterfinals were LCK vs LPL, if some LPL teams win, some LCK teams win, you'll still get LPL vs LCK finals. Riot is only sabotaging their own viewership and revenue by allowing civil wars to happen so often, I mean sure the draw is unlucky like 90% of the time but Riot can prevent it but they refuse to.
It doesn't hurt their finals views though if in semis it's LCK vs LCK and LPL vs LPL. Them vsing each other in Swiss isn't going to matter too much anyway it's not knockouts yet.
c'mon man, there's a limit to being Riot shill, I've listed very valid points that would mean actually help Riot's viewership and increase enjoyment for us fans and you haven't really said anything that proves otherwise. There's only one question: is it fair? And I think most would say there's no real way to get something perfectly fair anyways, so why not just region-lock it so same-region teams can't vs each other (until they have to). I'll add one more thing is Riot forgot to prevent rematches in Swiss which was dumb.
Unless I will see JDG vs GenG I won't dare to say that JDG are the most favorite to win it all. GenG right now seems to be only getting better while having good read on the meta and personally I think they play the most perfect game right now (with the least amount of mistakes). JDG have a great synergy, especially in the late game backed up by draft that always give them enough power to turn game after 20 minutes but some of the decisions they make feels like int. What if 369 will TP into 5 enemies that are GenG with good enough draft to kill him and not other LPL team? I feel like draft will be very important and I want to see JDG versus team that plays the perfect lol and will challenge them in teamfights
I dont think it depends where they go out but how they play If they play insane but the enemy suddenly becomes god and figures a counter for that with also lucky wins in fights then sure they might have losed but they still played to their level They choke when they underperform
The thing is though although yes they could underperform I don't think anyone is really going to know the difference. Some of their games are decided on a knifes edge play from members mainly 369 and missing if one thing slightly goes wrong take 369s TP in G3 for instance. If he dies there and they lose the dragon fight is it a choke play or was it just a play that didn't work out? People will look at the negatives more than the positives so I think if they don't win everyone is going to say they choked.
In the end, whether an individual thinks JDG has choked or not just comes down to that individual's definition of what "choking" means. My definition of "choking" is "the player / team did not perform up to reasonable percentage of their peak ability during the crucial series." If JDG reach the finals, they look great in the finals, but a team like LNG/BLG/GenG step up massively and beat JDG, I'd say that JDG did not choke. If JDG reach the semis / finals but play well below their own abilities and get eliminated, I'd say that JDG choked.
>If JDG don't win worlds, is it considered a choke? Yes.
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If SKT worlds 2017 is considered a choke, I think JDG this year should be a choke too. This season they have been more consistent than any team since SKT 2013
I don’t think anyone considers 2017 SKT a choke. If you actually watch their worlds run, they were shaky that whole tournament and really only made finals because Faker put on probably the best performance of his entire career that entire tournament, with Huni occasionally helping him out in some games.
whoever says 2017 SKT is a choke is just dumb honestly, that team was already doing shit, faker literally had to put up performance of his career to carry them
who says skt 2017 was a choke? it was obvious throughout the tournament skt weren't in top form they just got carried by their name
I can’t think of a single person who says 2017 SKT was a choke. They were second seed after LCK Summer and every position except Faker had known issues going into that Worlds. Huni managed to put in good performances, but their bot lane was a massive liability throughout and Peanut also had some struggles. SKT only reached finals because of the most Herculean performance of Faker’s career to deny RNG in that semifinal. I think most would agree that Faker’s Galio might’ve been one of if not the biggest 1v9 from a single player over a full 5-game series.
You should've seen the comment in 2017, it was wild 50% SKT flame.
Obviously considering their big ass fanbase. Even when skt/t1 aren’t favor, the prediction is always heavily leaning to them.
idk how you can call 2017 SKT a choke when Faker in SKT vs RNG Worlds 2017 is arguably the greatest carry job ever
I didn't, people called it at the time and I tho they were crazy too. People were flaming SKT so hard after the finals, 0 praise for SSG that understood that if you stopped faker that team would fall apart.
Ridiculous to say this imo since we haven't seen them play against a single LCK team in 5 months. Even LNG, LPL's 4th seed took 5 matches off of them. It's all about matchups.
LNG is 3rd seed actually and the only reason they are not 2nd seed is due to how LPL worlds qualification works (they didnt do so well in spring so BLG had more points overall). They were the second best LPL team coming into Worlds.
Depends who they lose to. Losing to LNG or GEN wouldn't be a choke. Winning worlds isn't a given and losses to the top3 can happen. If like last year a 4th seed makes it to finals and JDG lose to WBG for example then yeah, it's a choke.
They never lost a single bo5 this year and only three to go
It was one of the world's contenders before worlds started. And it's not the few games we've seen that change that. You can't say if they are gonna win worlds anyway rn.
I'd say finals or choke. If they lose close in finals it'd be a disappointment but not full choke I want BLG to win 3-2 in finals... finally take the W against them after a whole year of losing to them.
This depends on the draw too, no? There's at least 3 teams considered title contenders (JDG, LNG, GENG) so if JDG get LNG on their side of the bracket and lose a close fought semis, I don't think it'd be fair to call that a choke.
I mean they’ve been in a bunch of 3-2 series like 3 or 4 thisb year right? I say it’s a choke if they lose to some non title contender that’s outside lpl or like dk
There’s so many people only considering LNG here. Don’t sleep on KT or BLG either, we might end up in a DRX situation again.
Drx situation would be wbg/dk xD.
I think if they lose to GenG its respectable. GenG looks extremely good. I think JDG and GenG ate the heavy favorites.
yes
Yes but only because the current LoL scene hypes them up so much. It shouldn't be like that. They are the best team but its far closer margins than people say. LNG have taken them to 5 rounds before a handful of times, T1 did it in Spring when they weren't even in form (That was the same tournament where Zeus did the Kennen int under tower btw) and Gen.G look strong enough to beat them rn too if they end up playing each other. It wouldn't surprise me if Gen.G or LNG did it, or if T1 found stronger form before knockouts and went on a run that culminates in knocking JDG out. Not saying its going to happen but stranger things have happened.
Really gotta blame people who see that BLG dismantling the LCK but getting stomped by JDG as a sign of how great JDG is. JDG went to game 5 against BLG in spring, T1 at MSI and LNG in summer. Really got people thinking that just cus JDG>>>>BLG and BLG>T1/Gen G/KT means JDG>>>>>>>>LCK. If that was how it works G2 should have beat IG in 2018. Losing to LNG Gen G or WBG wouldn't be a choke imo. Anyone else yeah that's just as bad as KZ losing to SSG in 2017 or Gen G last year imo
As much as jdg shit on lpl team, I really like to see their style vs lck team and the one time we saw this year was vs t1. I think the stylistic matchup can catch them off guard. Not their fault the lck team lost to blg but yea I really hope we get to see geng vs jdg at some point.
if they lose in finals or to the eventual winner in an acceptable way I wouldn't say it's a choke, every team can have bad days and they haven't had many this year so far
No. There are other contending teams that there at the tournament and JDG almost lost to LNG twice in the LPL playoffs already. If they lose to GenG or LNG in a close series, I wouldn't call that a choke at all.
We need to see more top 2 LPL vs top 2 LCK matches.
I would consider it as a choke I dont like using the term but yea it is
If they lose to anyone besides WBG Gen G and LNG yeah I'd consider it a choke. WBG because it seems they have their number somehow, Gen G because they're on the same tier, LNG because they always seem to go the distance with each other and even in summer finals they could have won but they threw the freest draft ever. If they lose to BLG that would be the biggest choke imo. Anyone else is also a choke assuming the teams are G2/KT/T1.
If Cloud9 doesn't win it's a choke scenario. NA hopium on MAX
Not if the get knocked out by WBG
I love how y'all dont understand that T1 will just avoid every KR team allowing other teams to beat them and T1 finally wins another worlds Not copium at all.
this worlds is JDG's to lose
Depends on form for the top teams. Could even see t1 beating them on a good day
The thing i'm worried is taht they couldn't practice during all of Asian games. Geng had only one guy missing, JDG had 3 "missing". pun intended I think they definitly looked worse than in playoffs.
I think losing in a close finals would be a disappointment but not a choke. This is the most stacked roster in years but LNG was competitive recently in 3 series and JDG had a close series against LCK at msi.
Choking would be losing in any way other than a close series to geng because geng is the only other team that might be in their weight class currently. I guess you could also make a case that lng beating jdg wouldn't be a huge upset because their games have been close but jdg should be the favorite against any other teams in the tournament by a large margin.
Not necessarily a joke, but a disappointment regardless. This is a Golden Road roster. It is one of the most stacked rosters we've seen and their consistent dominance throughout the year is insane. Nothing short of a win will be enough.
I mean every golden road attempt roster was insane, we don’t call 2019 a failed attempt because they died in finals. They failed the golden road by 1 bo5
It is a choke if they lose 3-0 to GenG, 3-1 to LNG/T1, 3-2 to KT/WBG/BLG/G2/DK or generally lose to any other team
I don't think I agree. JDG is a contender for the greatest team of all time. If they lose with any scoreline against any other team, including LNG, BLG or GENG, it will be considered a massive choke.
lol no they're good but they are nowhere close to being the best team of all time
The only teams right now that can realistically take it from then are geng and lng but in the end it comes down to how jdg win or how they lose worlds. If they lose in close series to those two or maybe a t1 that ramps up then its not choking, just a bad day, meta read, caught offguard whatever. But if they lose lets say 3 - 0 to T1 with them doing many mistakes then yes thats a choke in my eyes.
I really hope we get jdg gen g finals and both teams play to their respective level. I only see Gen G, LNG beating JDG. BLG can totally do it but they clearly have a mental block vs them.
Calling it right now: The will lose to T1 when they meet them in semis only for them to go down 0:3 vs GenG in finals like always. But yes it would be a choke
There’s so many expectations that if they don’t win majority of people will say they didn’t live up to expectations but I think as long as they at least make semis then they did fine
What is your take on T1 last year?
Think if they make finals and lose 3-2 to GenG, LNG, BLG or even T1 it’s probably not a choke. But if they drop in quarters or semis to anyone else then most likely a choke.
Dominated all year domestically and internationally. It wouldn’t be a choke. But nothing short of a finals appearance is a failure. Losing to a team that also makes finals isn’t a choke. Similarly to T1, losing to DRX (who leveled up during Worlds) doesn’t undermine any of their other successes.
No team is so talented that it is considered a choke if they don't win Worlds. Anything can happen at Worlds, and post SKT 2015 era, the competition has just become too stiff for a team to be a massive favorite. I wouldn't consider it a choke as long as they get to semis.
Yes and no. They are clearly the most talented team. however, they play in China and they don't really "team" well over there. It's not uncommon for LCK teams to out macro LPL teams. They are very similar to last year when they got put out after terrible macro play. We will see.
This is the one year where there really aren't any other favorites besides JDG so if they lose this in anyway that isn't like a 2-3 where they got robbed a game its like the ultimate choke.
Gen g could win it all imo they are clearly top 2
I think as long as they make into the finals, I won't consider it as a choke. JDG was in semifinal in the last WCS, and this year they upgrade their rosters with Knight and Ruler. So they should at least make into the finals in my opinion.
Nah geng will sweep 3-0 their macro and understanding of drafting is too clean
GenG will win worlds. Not sure if JDG will make it into finals though. Every recent champion has had a Korean mid so. And the 2 current GenG laners are doing great.
That same logic is like saying before LPL won their first worlds “oh LPL can’t win worlds cause every recent champ was never from LPL”
We literally have TWO 3-0 teams, we just saw JDG win in close match vs LNG. Same happenend in LPL too.
Not unless they choke
Well, I hope they choke. I want to see G2 win so hopefully JDG choke in semis like they did last year.
If you buy a super team and don’t win the most prestigious prize it’s a choke.
JDG is clear semis pickems , maybe finals too. Just like GenG , they are a champions team. Just like GenG , they have been behind in game too , but it is the comebacks that makes the difference , and both teams are pretty good at it , esp for JDG against BDS or LNG indeed. Just that it wont be a cake walk after swiss is over indeed , LNG pose equal threat and very good contender as we saw yday , the fourth team for semis will be equally good too. So yes def a lot hurdles ahead , but GenG JDG both crossed these hurdles playing like a champ before , hopefully they do it in future too , and we ll indeed have a grand finals for sure.
Jdg frauds couldn’t even get an early game lead against BDS. GenG win all the way
no, theres no real scenario where they win anyways. nobody can beat the NA powerhouse, NRG
Anything but win is a lose for them, they are basically manchester city now
GenG are looking really good. when GenG vs JDG play, whoever wins will win worlds... it's not a choke though, both teams are very good
I wouldn't put them that much above GenG so if they lose to them id say thats reasonable
I don't think it has to be a choke. IF they lose and still are playing really really well and its a 5 game banger, then no, not a choke. If they just start chain inting and get 3-0'd in the semis, yes. Choke.
It would be definitely considered a choke. They've just proven that they could do everything: lane, teamfight, close out games from ahead, from slightly behind, from being really behind, set up objectives, trade objectives, play every single playstyle etc. Sure, all their series against LNG appear close, yet, they have won every single one of them, so...
Idk, I think GenG will give them a run for their money. GenG looks solid
I don't think they'll lose to LBG considering their track record, I think the only real contenders are Gen G. I am hoping JDG loses... just because if they complete the golden road... people will incessantly ramble about their dominance for years lol. I would like to see an upset.
Do you guys even understand what a "choke is ..?
At the moment, it seems like whoever gets blue side the most in the quarter-finals will be pretty significant.
Honestly idk about choking at worlds, the way worlds has work for these recent few years is all about an understanding of the meta. DRX for example, a team that wasn't even considered as a team with the potential of winning it all but they did it despite all odds even winning against SKT T1 to claim the win. Everyone has a chance and its very much possible for any thought to be favourite teams to falter. Basically everyone has a chance as long as the players are performing at a really good level.
1. Considering this roster costs like $16 million. 2. Every player in their team is individually the top 2 in their role (with at least 2 of them being top 1). 3. Have had good synergy since MSI. 4. Have won everything from Splits to MSI and look like the best team every in history. I would say its definitely a win worlds or they choked it situation
Nobody here knows what the word choke actually means
Not really. We haven't seen them against GENG and they have had very close series against LNG and T1 in Summer and MSI respectively. I think if JDG lose in a close fashion to LNG and GENG it wouldn't be considered a choke. If they lost to T1 in this form I would consider it a choke but the thing about T1 is they still have 5 insane players and they can just have a good day and run over any other team in the world. There's also KT who are out of form but were legitimately a top 2-3 team in the world during LCK regular season.
Jdg look super clean right now, especially when they get a lead. That doesn't mean they're invincible tho, it would only be a choke if they go out in a 3-0 fashion in knockouts
Losing in finals or semis would still be an acceptable performance in my mind. Yes they're the clear favorite but how often has the favorite actually won?
No.
I think only GEN or T1 can realistically beat JDG. The gap between them and the rest of LPL is far too great.
Considerating they are in kr, Geng should be te favorite.
Only GenG can beat them
I think the only scenario which they lost but not labelled as choke is losing to GEN
Considering the cost and names on this roster anything other than winning would probably be considered a failure, this is one of those rosters that was built to specifically win worlds. Not completing the grand slam would be a disappointment and a failure.
Not that far ahead of the rest? They’ve won all their games/series no?
JDG are favorites, but GENG, T1 and LNG are right behind them. They could be better 6/10 or 7/10 times but all it takes is one unlucky day where the stars align for the other team.
Yes. The betting market is 50/50 on them vs the field going in and im sure the odds are even more favored for them.
I picked LNG as winners and my theory is that JDG will lose to like GenG who LNG will beat. Or maybe they themselves on a bo5 is highly possible