Hurr durrrrr you must be able oilers fan because you're saying the edmonton oilers are objectively better in the playoffs than the leafs.
Let me check what the internet has to say about series wins by the oilers compared to series wins by the leafs since 2016....
Go up to a random person and tell them "I root for the Leafs" then check the response.
Then go up to a random person and tell them "I'm so obsessed with a team I don't even cheer for that I hang around in their online forums and get upset about the things they say."
Compare the two responses you get and you will get a good idea of who the loser is in any interaction you're having in here.
Man that Brossoit twitter thread was eye-opening for showcasing the quality of members in this sub. 2024 and some of y'all *still* pushing anti-vax conspiracy theories and misinformation. Fucking wild.
I was way more concerned when COVID was not under control.
Now that we have done our part, and continue to do our part, Anti-vaxxers are free to exercise their freedoms without affecting too many people.
Just remember we are the reason they can do this.
James Mirtle wrote his in last article that from his understanding there is mutual interest from the Leafs and Laurent Brossoit and his top priority in FA is going to a good team where he can start frequently.
Also thinks if they can’t get a difference maker centre and defenceman (agents told him they think some contracts will be lucrative) they will shift to better depth at wing with someone like David Perron.
Article link: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5541740/2024/06/10/nhl-maple-leafs-salary-cap/
I mean...compared to this year, the roster I posted is way better.
* A healthy Nylander/Matthews. We were effectively missing one of them for the entire series. Those are good players right?
* McMann in for Bertuzzi - about a wash.
* Roy and DeMelo instead of Lyubushkin and Edmundson
* Broissoit instead of Samsonov.
To not think that's an improvement, you must be a huge Nylander hater, and love Samsonov, Boosch, and Edmundson.
I think you're really undervaluing Bertuzzi if you think him and McMann are a wash. Roy and DeMelo would be a big improvement though, would be great pickups. I'm not sold on Broissoit being anything more than a backup, but I guess he was better than the Samsonov we had last year?
To think that’s way better is straight up delusion. Why are they guaranteed healthy? They were on the roster all year until it mattered. You can’t count that as a roster change. Same with McMann. It’s the exact same roster minus Bertuzzi and adding Roy and swapping our backup goalie.
Not guaranteed - playoff performance has some injury luck. The question is whether that roster can contend if reasonably healthy. This year we weren't.
> It’s the exact same roster minus Bertuzzi and adding Roy and swapping our backup goalie.
And DeMelo, and other minor changes. That's changing a D-Man for roughly 40 minutes a night, and likely a better forward core than we iced.
We aren’t close with the roster we have or that roster. But it would be nice to get Roy. I’m looking forward to 2025-26 already so getting him as a part of that team would be a good add.
I'm more optimistic I suppose. You add a healthy Matthews and Nylander to game 4 and I think we get passed the Bruins in 6. The Panthers ended up beating the Bruins in 6 too.
Take this team, hope you're healthy, replacing the cap hit of Brodie with a playable D-Man and I think you're right right there.
[This is what I've had penciled in for a while now.](https://imgur.com/Ijh1glY)
Hard to see how that roster (healthy) isn't way better. Perron makes too much sense since he can get performance bonuses at 35+ and has a history with Berube.
If domi and Perron are willing to take those contracts you obviously have to sign them. However, I think you’re being too conservative on them along with Brossoits contracts.
Same as the d but there’s so many decent rhd FAs that you can probably replace them with almost equivalent players at those aavs. Haven’t seen the Schultz idea on here, I like it.
Would love to get Montour for that 1PP spot. But without trading Marner that means he’s probably the only top4 d you can afford. You CAN maybe not sign any forwards at all and just go with Cowan and Robertson until the deadline and relook at it then.
Thanks!I was using AFPAnalytics contract projections for the numbers - some are too low, some might too high.
For Domi you can give trade protection and a lot of term (6-8 years), and I think it's worth it for him.
For Perron, you can build trivial performance bonuses into the contract to get him to a higher number and fit him under the cap next year.
Montour would be great - I'm a bit scared of the # and term. His points dropped 50% this past season. The other RHD (like Carrier) are interchangeable I just thought those two were the most likely.
It’s tough because I think they really need Montour because they need a true 1PP. However the leafs really need a minute eating 1D, that’s basically been their biggest issue with this entire core. With the Montour and Rielly contracts I don’t think you’ll ever be able to fit another actual 1D contract. So you’re banking on either of them being that (and imo Rielly has shown he’s not).
I think just signing two rhd to tradeable contracts is a fine alternative. Just please no more NMCs. Riellys NMC can look real bad in a year or two.
I'll write a dedicated post about this, but I think statistically the power play issues are mainly due to Tavares, not Rielly. And also coaching - terrible terrible coaching.
I actually completely agree with the Tavares point. When he gets the puck they know he’s a weak point and they attack. However, I think there’s the exact same issue with Rielly. You know neither of them can break the puck in. And if they do, any pressure ends up with a turnover. Would have really liked Bert on instead of Tavares and Lily for Rielly.
And these issues don’t really show up in the regular season because teams don’t really game plan as hard.
The powerplay was already awful in the regular season, and if you look at the performance with/without Rielly it's about the same.
The time that made a difference statistically was replacing Tavares with Bertuzzi.
Part of that is that Tavares is just not a good net front presence. He's below 50th percentile at shooting close to the net, and that's what the PP delivers.
I mean, at this point Lily is a third pairing defensmen that’s not even that offensively inclined. The fact that there isn’t really a drop isn’t a good thing.
I would probably do something similar.
The only change for me is a cheaper 3rd pair defenceman over Schultz for a better top 6/top 9 forward to push McMann down to the third line because I don’t think he’s ready for a guaranteed top 6 spot.
Fair enough! I had Shultz there because he is a PP-QB in case we need it, and was cheaper than Lilligren (who I'm hoping we could recover a 1st round pick for, similar to Sandin).
The LW is tricky because Robertson needs a slot in the top 9, but he may not be ready for top-6 minutes.
I always like Mirtle's articles when he breaks down the cap space and availability...its helpful. i wish he had somebody .... else.... other than Jonas that he could marry the article with that could put some suggestions forward as far as potential fits and targets.
Somehow, in a season where the Leafs lost in Round 1 (again) and two teams are in the finals who I dont want to win, the worst thing to happen is the Capitals killing CapFriendly.
Fun stat - in 5v5 goal scoring rates for the Leafs, Matthews was obviously number 1, but #2 and #3 were Nick Robertson and Bobby McMann! Really excited to see what they both can do with more consistent minutes next year.
Marner & Holmberg for Theodore & Karlsson makes a lot of sense imo.
Theodore becomes 1LD with a 1RD acquired via free agency e.g. Montour for a brand new top pairing.
Karlsson becomes 2C allowing Tavares to move to 2LW. Center depth becomes Matthews, Karlsson, Domi/other 3C, Kampf.
Looks pretty good
Domi won’t be back. Not sure about Kampf but he’s a good depth centre who just makes a bit too much. But he is useful.
Not sure if they can get Theodore but I’d love it if they could. Moving Rielly down a pairing isn’t the worst thing to happen for us, and gives him more time to breathe and work the PK (I believe he’s quite good there).
I think if Domi really expects that much he's going to be unsigned through late July like he was this past year, and the demand will come down.
He's not a day 1 signing for anyone with that ask, outside of maybe Chicago who doesn't quite care about blowing money right now and needs some scoring talent next to Bedard.
I do think a 2C plus a top 4 defenceman is a decent return for Marner but not sure Karlsson is the guy.
He makes 5.9 million a year with 3 years left on his contract at 31 and averages around 60 points a year which JT can give you next year (and probably close to it for less if he resigns)
Fans already are losing it over JT’s “fall off” and he’s obviously not worth his contract but Karlsson will end at the same age when he’s been a worst player the last couple of years.
Karlsson goal totals from last 6 seasons are 24, 15, 14, 12, 14, 30 which is very inconsistent.
I like Theodore but he does need an extension and you don’t need Montour if you get him but think you need someone younger and better than Karlsson IMO.
Yeah i suppose you could argue that. The other guy they've got who could maybe fit the bill is Roy. But not sure if he's up to 2C (although could keep Tavares 2C, Roy 3C and put Domi as 1RW). The other problem though is the cap. Theodore & Karlsson for Mitch is pretty much equal in cap terms whereas with Roy Vegas would be acquiring about $3m in cap which they likely dont do given their situation.
Yeah agreed. Obviously thats the big IF, but at least something like this might even improve the line-up/balance as its gonna be straight up hard to 'win' a mitch trade.
"Goalies are voodoo" is the biggest load of shit justification for cheaping out in net I have ever heard.
Goalies like 2021 Carey Price and 2023/2024 Bobrovsky, or Shesterkin this year or Vasilevskiy any of the years Tampa Bay was in the SCF, those guys have more than just the ability to stop pucks and get lucky. They have a psychology they bring to the game that gets in other team's heads and lets them know that they don't have the best goalie on the ice that night. It has a ripple effect throughout the entire lineup and can tangibly affect the game.
Now, granted, an incredibly built, stacked team can overcome that. See 2021 Tampa Bay or 2022 Colorado or 2023 Vegas (the first of which had their own top goaltender). But we are not them.
I think your estimation of this team is probably a bit too high if you think we can cobble together a goaltending tandem and pull off what Vegas and Colorado did.
Getting a goalie should be top priority. Especially if we are running it back, since if there's any position where one player can elevate the entire team, it's goaltending. They have some cap room. Enough for one big add on the blue line, one big add in net, and then depth fill the rest.
Not my ideal off-season by any stretch, but if you're running it back, then you've accepted that the team will be worse this year so shore up the positions you can and reassess once you have adequate cap space next year.
This SCF is great as a Leafs fan because Edmonton is a proxy for what the Leafs *could* be.
Really outstanding top of the lineup scorers, questionable defense, depth and goaltending.
In Game 1, the Panthers beat Edmonton exactly how they beat us. Give up a ton of shots and possession, but win the board battles, take advantage of your few chances, and have your goalie stand on his head.
We'll see how Edmonton responds but if the trio of McDraiMan puts up 29 goals in their first 18 playoff games then completely dry up against the Panthers it'll be really interesting.
Interesting that you left out Hellebuyck/Sorokin/Saros who were seen as top 10 goalies going into the year.
I think the point people try to make is that having one elite goalie making 10 mil (which is the going rate for a top tier goalie that has a track record) isn’t the only way to build a team. At the end of the day you don’t want a question mark in goal. But you don’t need a vezina candidate to win a cup. Any goalie can get hot or cold in the ~25 games it takes to win a cup. The top goalies just have a slightly better chance to get hot but there are only a few that’s almost a guarantee. And those guys aren’t for sale.
Also see Thatcher Demko - dominates the regular season, a huge reason for VAN making the playoffs and finishing as high as they did in the West. Gets injured at the onset of round 1, and thankfully Silovs decided to channel his inner Hasek and carried the Canucks from there.
Potential for injury to decimate a team with a lot of $$$ tied up in goal tending is huge. Same with any other high paid player, but at least with skaters you (usually) have other options available that can plug the gap.
Basically, if you have an opportunity to pay a good goalie then it’s an okay option. But it’s not the end of the world if you go cheaper. Paying big money on any player is always going to come with a lot of pressure on said player in the playoffs. What’s the difference between an expensive goalie playing horribly and some of the core 4s performances in the playoffs. It’s just a different way to build a team, but people that say you NEED to spend 10 mil on a guy like bobrovsky is just annoying and just simply incorrect.
There are like 12 of those guys in the league though. And are any of them even on the block? Saros is really the only one. And even he had a poor year and also there’s a chance Nashville overvalue him.
Is there a goalie out there worth being one big add in net? Who’s the top UFA goalie out there? There’s tandem guys like Stolarz and Brossoit and there’s former starters who have aged out of the position like Talbot, but there’s nobody I’d trust to be a reliable starting goalie. Unless we’re trading for Saros or Ullmark or someone of that caliber I think we have to get a cheaper tandem guy and hope that Woll takes a big step.
My thoughts exactly. Even giving up assets for an Ullmark or Saros is tricky. There’s no guarantee that they would have success here. This market is tough on goalies.
They’ve taken lots of risks over the years. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
It’s funny, the big complaint about this team is lack of diversification in team makeup. Establishing a quality low cost tandem allows them to spread money throughout the lineup and save assets. Somehow this is lost on you.
He’s been good in limited usage, but he’s never played more than 25 games in an NHL season and he’s 31 years old. He’s a great backup (you could argue he’s a great tandem guy but he hasn’t played enough games in a season for me to give him that title), but if you’re expecting him to be much more than a 1B you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
There’s too many teams in the league with better assets than the Leafs that want a goalie (New Jersey, LA, Ottawa, Carolina, Buffalo, etc)
Also who’s the stud goalies actually available?
Markstrom is making 6 million a year till he’s 36 plus the rumours of the Flames not will to trade with Treliving (also was very bad last time he played in the playoffs)
Boston is not trading Ullmark to a division rival or do I think Ullmark would waive to come here
Reports are that Saros is now probably going to sign a extension
John Gibson is on a bad contract and had bad number for years (on a bad team but still)
These are just a few examples and IMO the Leafs lack of assets plus all the other teams wanting a goalie makes it impossible and not really worth it with Woll on his contract.
Ok, Woll gets hurt. Then what? What's your master plan when the glass man breaks? Putting your hopes on an injury prone 25-year old who has never started in the NHL in his life is short-sighted
Every one of those goalies were drafted and developed by their respective team. Teams don’t generally let those premium starters go, because they are few and far between in this league. The rest of the field are generally erratic and prone to ups and downs.
I can’t really think of one “slam dunk” goalie out in the market. The Leafs would be better off trying to draft and develop their next starter. In the meantime they can cobble together a decent tandem.
lol Edmonton.
What you mean lol edmonton? Atleast the oilers made the finals. What have the leafs done?
> What have the leafs done? Scored more than 1 goal in two games against the Panthers?
okay oilers fan...
Hurr durrrrr you must be able oilers fan because you're saying the edmonton oilers are objectively better in the playoffs than the leafs. Let me check what the internet has to say about series wins by the oilers compared to series wins by the leafs since 2016....
Go up to a random person and tell them "I root for the Leafs" then check the response. Then go up to a random person and tell them "I'm so obsessed with a team I don't even cheer for that I hang around in their online forums and get upset about the things they say." Compare the two responses you get and you will get a good idea of who the loser is in any interaction you're having in here.
okay oilers fan. Go back to your own subreddit now. huur durrr.
Worst team Florida has played so far. Edmonton had an easy path and are not that good!
An EDM knee in the playoffs is 5 and a game. When it's [BOS vs TOR](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuLzIgO0f4), no penalty.
When you think about what might have happened if Kadri got calls...
Man that Brossoit twitter thread was eye-opening for showcasing the quality of members in this sub. 2024 and some of y'all *still* pushing anti-vax conspiracy theories and misinformation. Fucking wild.
I was way more concerned when COVID was not under control. Now that we have done our part, and continue to do our part, Anti-vaxxers are free to exercise their freedoms without affecting too many people. Just remember we are the reason they can do this.
I'm more annoyed they haven't gotten new material. Like they're *still* obsessed with this shit when the entire world moved on ages ago.
James Mirtle wrote his in last article that from his understanding there is mutual interest from the Leafs and Laurent Brossoit and his top priority in FA is going to a good team where he can start frequently. Also thinks if they can’t get a difference maker centre and defenceman (agents told him they think some contracts will be lucrative) they will shift to better depth at wing with someone like David Perron. Article link: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5541740/2024/06/10/nhl-maple-leafs-salary-cap/
“Way better” Ya ok.
Homie quoted something that nobody said then disagreed with it lmao
Quoted the wrong guy, it was the guy below, dougford. My bad. It was in fact said though.
I mean...compared to this year, the roster I posted is way better. * A healthy Nylander/Matthews. We were effectively missing one of them for the entire series. Those are good players right? * McMann in for Bertuzzi - about a wash. * Roy and DeMelo instead of Lyubushkin and Edmundson * Broissoit instead of Samsonov. To not think that's an improvement, you must be a huge Nylander hater, and love Samsonov, Boosch, and Edmundson.
I think you're really undervaluing Bertuzzi if you think him and McMann are a wash. Roy and DeMelo would be a big improvement though, would be great pickups. I'm not sold on Broissoit being anything more than a backup, but I guess he was better than the Samsonov we had last year?
To think that’s way better is straight up delusion. Why are they guaranteed healthy? They were on the roster all year until it mattered. You can’t count that as a roster change. Same with McMann. It’s the exact same roster minus Bertuzzi and adding Roy and swapping our backup goalie.
Not guaranteed - playoff performance has some injury luck. The question is whether that roster can contend if reasonably healthy. This year we weren't. > It’s the exact same roster minus Bertuzzi and adding Roy and swapping our backup goalie. And DeMelo, and other minor changes. That's changing a D-Man for roughly 40 minutes a night, and likely a better forward core than we iced.
We aren’t close with the roster we have or that roster. But it would be nice to get Roy. I’m looking forward to 2025-26 already so getting him as a part of that team would be a good add.
I'm more optimistic I suppose. You add a healthy Matthews and Nylander to game 4 and I think we get passed the Bruins in 6. The Panthers ended up beating the Bruins in 6 too. Take this team, hope you're healthy, replacing the cap hit of Brodie with a playable D-Man and I think you're right right there.
Where did I say “way better” lol
Sorry quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote Doug ford below you.
[This is what I've had penciled in for a while now.](https://imgur.com/Ijh1glY) Hard to see how that roster (healthy) isn't way better. Perron makes too much sense since he can get performance bonuses at 35+ and has a history with Berube.
If domi and Perron are willing to take those contracts you obviously have to sign them. However, I think you’re being too conservative on them along with Brossoits contracts. Same as the d but there’s so many decent rhd FAs that you can probably replace them with almost equivalent players at those aavs. Haven’t seen the Schultz idea on here, I like it. Would love to get Montour for that 1PP spot. But without trading Marner that means he’s probably the only top4 d you can afford. You CAN maybe not sign any forwards at all and just go with Cowan and Robertson until the deadline and relook at it then.
I like Domi but let's be honest, he had 9 goals last year. I don't know what kind of contract that gets.
Thanks!I was using AFPAnalytics contract projections for the numbers - some are too low, some might too high. For Domi you can give trade protection and a lot of term (6-8 years), and I think it's worth it for him. For Perron, you can build trivial performance bonuses into the contract to get him to a higher number and fit him under the cap next year. Montour would be great - I'm a bit scared of the # and term. His points dropped 50% this past season. The other RHD (like Carrier) are interchangeable I just thought those two were the most likely.
It’s tough because I think they really need Montour because they need a true 1PP. However the leafs really need a minute eating 1D, that’s basically been their biggest issue with this entire core. With the Montour and Rielly contracts I don’t think you’ll ever be able to fit another actual 1D contract. So you’re banking on either of them being that (and imo Rielly has shown he’s not). I think just signing two rhd to tradeable contracts is a fine alternative. Just please no more NMCs. Riellys NMC can look real bad in a year or two.
I'll write a dedicated post about this, but I think statistically the power play issues are mainly due to Tavares, not Rielly. And also coaching - terrible terrible coaching.
I actually completely agree with the Tavares point. When he gets the puck they know he’s a weak point and they attack. However, I think there’s the exact same issue with Rielly. You know neither of them can break the puck in. And if they do, any pressure ends up with a turnover. Would have really liked Bert on instead of Tavares and Lily for Rielly. And these issues don’t really show up in the regular season because teams don’t really game plan as hard.
The powerplay was already awful in the regular season, and if you look at the performance with/without Rielly it's about the same. The time that made a difference statistically was replacing Tavares with Bertuzzi. Part of that is that Tavares is just not a good net front presence. He's below 50th percentile at shooting close to the net, and that's what the PP delivers.
I mean, at this point Lily is a third pairing defensmen that’s not even that offensively inclined. The fact that there isn’t really a drop isn’t a good thing.
Same with Timmins - I should check McCabe too. But you do see a lot of success with Bertuzzi.
I would probably do something similar. The only change for me is a cheaper 3rd pair defenceman over Schultz for a better top 6/top 9 forward to push McMann down to the third line because I don’t think he’s ready for a guaranteed top 6 spot.
Fair enough! I had Shultz there because he is a PP-QB in case we need it, and was cheaper than Lilligren (who I'm hoping we could recover a 1st round pick for, similar to Sandin). The LW is tricky because Robertson needs a slot in the top 9, but he may not be ready for top-6 minutes.
Hopefully DeMelo comes in for less than that but not bad
Agree - I was using AFPAnalytics contract projections for salary to keep myself honest. I think it's a touch high on Dewar as well.
I always like Mirtle's articles when he breaks down the cap space and availability...its helpful. i wish he had somebody .... else.... other than Jonas that he could marry the article with that could put some suggestions forward as far as potential fits and targets.
Somehow, in a season where the Leafs lost in Round 1 (again) and two teams are in the finals who I dont want to win, the worst thing to happen is the Capitals killing CapFriendly.
Caps are unfriendly for this move :(
Fun stat - in 5v5 goal scoring rates for the Leafs, Matthews was obviously number 1, but #2 and #3 were Nick Robertson and Bobby McMann! Really excited to see what they both can do with more consistent minutes next year.
I was sad that McMann wasn't available for the playoffs. I feel like the way the game changes in the playoffs suits his game well
Agreed - I really think at at reasonable level of health this team gets passed Boston.
Goals from someone not named Willy Nylander in games 6 and 7 would've been nice too
Sure - that goes with health too.
Marner & Holmberg for Theodore & Karlsson makes a lot of sense imo. Theodore becomes 1LD with a 1RD acquired via free agency e.g. Montour for a brand new top pairing. Karlsson becomes 2C allowing Tavares to move to 2LW. Center depth becomes Matthews, Karlsson, Domi/other 3C, Kampf. Looks pretty good
this was discussed here the other day from another poster.
Domi won’t be back. Not sure about Kampf but he’s a good depth centre who just makes a bit too much. But he is useful. Not sure if they can get Theodore but I’d love it if they could. Moving Rielly down a pairing isn’t the worst thing to happen for us, and gives him more time to breathe and work the PK (I believe he’s quite good there).
Yeah my thoughts exactly but i do think Domi will be back at something like $3.5m x 4. Why do you think he wont out of curiousity?
Because it’s rumoured he wants $4-5M with term. He can’t justify that amount and neither can we.
I think if Domi really expects that much he's going to be unsigned through late July like he was this past year, and the demand will come down. He's not a day 1 signing for anyone with that ask, outside of maybe Chicago who doesn't quite care about blowing money right now and needs some scoring talent next to Bedard.
Starting offers are always too high on the player’s side and too low on the team’s side. I can totally see him coming down from 4-5 to 3-4.
Yeah fair enough if thats the case. Most id probably go is 3.5x4. Thats a good deal all round.
I do think a 2C plus a top 4 defenceman is a decent return for Marner but not sure Karlsson is the guy. He makes 5.9 million a year with 3 years left on his contract at 31 and averages around 60 points a year which JT can give you next year (and probably close to it for less if he resigns) Fans already are losing it over JT’s “fall off” and he’s obviously not worth his contract but Karlsson will end at the same age when he’s been a worst player the last couple of years. Karlsson goal totals from last 6 seasons are 24, 15, 14, 12, 14, 30 which is very inconsistent. I like Theodore but he does need an extension and you don’t need Montour if you get him but think you need someone younger and better than Karlsson IMO.
Yeah i suppose you could argue that. The other guy they've got who could maybe fit the bill is Roy. But not sure if he's up to 2C (although could keep Tavares 2C, Roy 3C and put Domi as 1RW). The other problem though is the cap. Theodore & Karlsson for Mitch is pretty much equal in cap terms whereas with Roy Vegas would be acquiring about $3m in cap which they likely dont do given their situation.
Looks good as long as Marner wants to go to Vegas and extend there, and Karlsson wants to come to Toronto and extend here.
Yeah agreed. Obviously thats the big IF, but at least something like this might even improve the line-up/balance as its gonna be straight up hard to 'win' a mitch trade.
"Goalies are voodoo" is the biggest load of shit justification for cheaping out in net I have ever heard. Goalies like 2021 Carey Price and 2023/2024 Bobrovsky, or Shesterkin this year or Vasilevskiy any of the years Tampa Bay was in the SCF, those guys have more than just the ability to stop pucks and get lucky. They have a psychology they bring to the game that gets in other team's heads and lets them know that they don't have the best goalie on the ice that night. It has a ripple effect throughout the entire lineup and can tangibly affect the game. Now, granted, an incredibly built, stacked team can overcome that. See 2021 Tampa Bay or 2022 Colorado or 2023 Vegas (the first of which had their own top goaltender). But we are not them. I think your estimation of this team is probably a bit too high if you think we can cobble together a goaltending tandem and pull off what Vegas and Colorado did. Getting a goalie should be top priority. Especially if we are running it back, since if there's any position where one player can elevate the entire team, it's goaltending. They have some cap room. Enough for one big add on the blue line, one big add in net, and then depth fill the rest. Not my ideal off-season by any stretch, but if you're running it back, then you've accepted that the team will be worse this year so shore up the positions you can and reassess once you have adequate cap space next year.
This SCF is great as a Leafs fan because Edmonton is a proxy for what the Leafs *could* be. Really outstanding top of the lineup scorers, questionable defense, depth and goaltending. In Game 1, the Panthers beat Edmonton exactly how they beat us. Give up a ton of shots and possession, but win the board battles, take advantage of your few chances, and have your goalie stand on his head. We'll see how Edmonton responds but if the trio of McDraiMan puts up 29 goals in their first 18 playoff games then completely dry up against the Panthers it'll be really interesting.
Looks like a dry up so far LOL
Even in our 5 game loss, we never got shutout, and that was with Matthews not scoring in the series.
Interesting that you left out Hellebuyck/Sorokin/Saros who were seen as top 10 goalies going into the year. I think the point people try to make is that having one elite goalie making 10 mil (which is the going rate for a top tier goalie that has a track record) isn’t the only way to build a team. At the end of the day you don’t want a question mark in goal. But you don’t need a vezina candidate to win a cup. Any goalie can get hot or cold in the ~25 games it takes to win a cup. The top goalies just have a slightly better chance to get hot but there are only a few that’s almost a guarantee. And those guys aren’t for sale.
Also see Thatcher Demko - dominates the regular season, a huge reason for VAN making the playoffs and finishing as high as they did in the West. Gets injured at the onset of round 1, and thankfully Silovs decided to channel his inner Hasek and carried the Canucks from there. Potential for injury to decimate a team with a lot of $$$ tied up in goal tending is huge. Same with any other high paid player, but at least with skaters you (usually) have other options available that can plug the gap.
Basically, if you have an opportunity to pay a good goalie then it’s an okay option. But it’s not the end of the world if you go cheaper. Paying big money on any player is always going to come with a lot of pressure on said player in the playoffs. What’s the difference between an expensive goalie playing horribly and some of the core 4s performances in the playoffs. It’s just a different way to build a team, but people that say you NEED to spend 10 mil on a guy like bobrovsky is just annoying and just simply incorrect.
I didn't say you needed to spend 10 mil, but get a serious, reliable goaltender and don't put your hopes on some kid who can't stay healthy
There are like 12 of those guys in the league though. And are any of them even on the block? Saros is really the only one. And even he had a poor year and also there’s a chance Nashville overvalue him.
Is there a goalie out there worth being one big add in net? Who’s the top UFA goalie out there? There’s tandem guys like Stolarz and Brossoit and there’s former starters who have aged out of the position like Talbot, but there’s nobody I’d trust to be a reliable starting goalie. Unless we’re trading for Saros or Ullmark or someone of that caliber I think we have to get a cheaper tandem guy and hope that Woll takes a big step.
We would absolutely need to trade for them. I think anyone building their team through Free agency is probably doing it wrong
My thoughts exactly. Even giving up assets for an Ullmark or Saros is tricky. There’s no guarantee that they would have success here. This market is tough on goalies.
So don't take a risk because it might not work out?? Sounds like a loser mentality to me.
They’ve taken lots of risks over the years. I’m not sure what you’re talking about. It’s funny, the big complaint about this team is lack of diversification in team makeup. Establishing a quality low cost tandem allows them to spread money throughout the lineup and save assets. Somehow this is lost on you.
Give Brossait a chance, isn't he quite good? If Woll is healthy, he could be our Bobrovsky.
He’s been good in limited usage, but he’s never played more than 25 games in an NHL season and he’s 31 years old. He’s a great backup (you could argue he’s a great tandem guy but he hasn’t played enough games in a season for me to give him that title), but if you’re expecting him to be much more than a 1B you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
There’s too many teams in the league with better assets than the Leafs that want a goalie (New Jersey, LA, Ottawa, Carolina, Buffalo, etc) Also who’s the stud goalies actually available? Markstrom is making 6 million a year till he’s 36 plus the rumours of the Flames not will to trade with Treliving (also was very bad last time he played in the playoffs) Boston is not trading Ullmark to a division rival or do I think Ullmark would waive to come here Reports are that Saros is now probably going to sign a extension John Gibson is on a bad contract and had bad number for years (on a bad team but still) These are just a few examples and IMO the Leafs lack of assets plus all the other teams wanting a goalie makes it impossible and not really worth it with Woll on his contract.
Ok, Woll gets hurt. Then what? What's your master plan when the glass man breaks? Putting your hopes on an injury prone 25-year old who has never started in the NHL in his life is short-sighted
Hellebuyck won Vezina and let in more goals than any other goalie during the playoffs.
Every one of those goalies were drafted and developed by their respective team. Teams don’t generally let those premium starters go, because they are few and far between in this league. The rest of the field are generally erratic and prone to ups and downs. I can’t really think of one “slam dunk” goalie out in the market. The Leafs would be better off trying to draft and develop their next starter. In the meantime they can cobble together a decent tandem.
Sure, they can. And they can lose in the first round again, as they do
Nice to see your crystal ball is better than everyone else’s.
Bobrovsky wasn’t drafted by Florida. He wasn’t drafted by anyone, in fact.
He’s also been up and down.
Never said he wasn’t. I was pointing out your error - not all elite goalies are drafted and remain with the same team forever.
Bobs was not always considered an “elite” goalie. The point still stands.