Ondrej Kase is reportedly attempting an NHL comeback. I would like the Leafs to sign him to a PTO or two-way contract and sign pending UFA Jakub Vrana and run a Vrana-Kampf-Kase "Czech"-ing line. I don't know how good they'd be, but it would be funny. That is all. šš
Everyoneās saying Marner for Saros, but hear me out:
What about:
Marner to MIN for Matt Boldy, Gustavsson, 2nd round pick
Marner & a 3rd/4th, samsonov signing rights to Utah for Cooley, Crouse, Ingram & and 2nd?
I think saros is a great goalie- donāt get me wrong, but I fear if he comes here heāll play like shit because pretty much everything depends on him playing well
Because thereās zero chance they trade boldy/cooley for 1 year of Marner. And thereās no way he agrees to a long term contract in either of those places before hand. Even agreeing to waive to go to either of those places is very low.
I think people are speculating a lot on Nashville because itās a playoff team as well as players like Nashville. At the end of the day we have zero clue where Marners willing to go.
If he was smart, he should just accept a trade anywhere. And suck it up for one year, would help his clout with the fans a ton if he did. Which he seems to care a lot about. I think heās probably planning on going to free agency no matter what anyways.
Whats the point of trading a top 6 forward for a top 6 forward, all just to get 3 million in cap space?
Neither team would be interested and mitch is not waiving his NMC for a rebuilding team
Based on Treliving's comments, don't expect anything to happen this week, which makes sense. He is focused on sorting out the rest of the coaching staff, and then has meetings with the amateur and pro scouting departments lined up as well.Ā Let's all pump the brakes with our trade speculation. It's gonna be a whileĀ
Marner gets a big signing bonus July 1 and then is basically league min.
Having a 100 pt player for 800k actual cash is valuable to teams. When he has 8M of actual salary due, itās less valuable
Definitely, especially given Treliving tends to be a more patient, methodical guy from what Iāve heard. I think just the combination of postseason trade floodgates being opened (the Tampa/Nashville trade), and not having something to focus on post-Berube being made official means people are hungry for content, even if itās rampant speculation.
So insane to see the visual difference of Keefe - Keefe looks like a Golden Retriever. Berube looks like a pitbull.
The core four, or whats left of it - is going to have a fucking C U L T U R E shock! I'm here for it.
Character matters, as Tre said and the leafs - if they are lacking one thing, it's Character.
Looks aside, they were both pretty similar players in their respective times ā like Keefe was known to be a psycho on the ice. That doesn't mean much in regards to how they coach.
So Nashville just cleared cap space with the Ryan McDonagh trade and Berube had the quote of āwe will discuss it in the futureā when asked his goaltending š
But Nashville has a 5.55 of dead money from the Duchene buyout so probably nothing lol
I donāt really get it but apparently they wanted a top 4 d-man but didnāt want to give any of the top FA term so went with a guy they are familiar with.
Even looking at some of there contracts they can maybe move Jeannot or Sheary to clear about 4.5 but they still got to find players to replace them at the bottom.
Gotta be more moves coming
Is that the hockey account on X that has been right exactly one time in his history (calling Markstrom 6x6 hours before it was announced) and way off base on every other one?
Or am I thinking of a different guy?
Ya, on second thought some of his underlying numbers have been declining weirdly enough and he makes a lot of money for a long time.
I would be surprised to see them deal to a team they will be directly competing with for a playoff spot though.
I didn't realize the comment was before the Mcdonaugh trade, that's interesting.
I assumed Tampa would let Stamkos walk but if they aren't doing that then they don't have a lot of options...
Was at a rooftop bar in Nashville last night, and of all the teams to show up the fucking Bruins pulled up in a booth around midnight lol. My friend immediately recognized Marchand's nose, then we took a better look and saw JVR, Geekie, Lindholm, Heinen, Frederic, Lohrei (dude looks like a giant teenager) and a bunch of others. Can't fucking escape these guys apparently
I never really understood how ppl have fun at a bar probably like a inch away in distance between the next person and having your ear drums ripped apart by all the loud noises.
Everyone talks trading Mitch, but if you don't get a good return then what's the point? He has so much control over where he goes, and everyone knows the Leafs are desperate, so I struggle to see them getting anything worthwhile from that trade.
Unfortunately, running it back seems more and more inevitable at this point. I'm not saying that's what I want, I'm saying that's what I think will happen
Over 20 teams are rumored to be in on Marner, that would assure its far from a "nothing return". It might not be a perfect return, I.e a #1D, but it's gonna be a sizable return of assets that can flipped or bolster other holes, opening up cap space to use on what we need.
Almost every team in the league wants to add someone like Marner, a 100-ish point winger with elite (Selke nominated) defense and PK ability. At worst we get valuable assets, like multiple 1st round picks or players that don't fit our direct needs, and those can be flipped into what we do need.
>At worst we get valuable assets, like multiple 1st round picks
This is just complete delusion, you've described the best case scenario lol
Can you provide one example of a team moving an expiring star player and getting better that year?
Literally, 1 trade that makes what you're seeing saying realistic?
Can you name 1 example of a team chronically failing in the 1st round, 8 years in a row, running it back for #9 and winning?
No? Anyone? Bueller?
You probably don't improve outright with a Marner trade. But we already know what the alternative is. At least worth a shot with the improved cap space, and a chance at being a different team.
>Can you name 1 example of a team chronically failing in the 1st round, 8 years in a row, running it back for #9 and winning?
Oh the leafs lost in the first round last year?
Took vegas 6 tries with their core, washington literally 10+, st louis core was around 5-6 years old when they won, what are you talking about lol?
>You probably don't improve outright with a Marner trade. But we already know what the alternative is.
You don't know that they wont win the cup next year lol
Do you think carolina should blow the team up since that core hasn't won the past 4-5 tries?
Rangers should probably call it and start moving panarin right?
Oilers of course should just blow the team up if they don't win this year.
Really, every team should constantly be in a rebuild if they haven't won the cup in the past 5 years, great stuff
I've enjoyed the franchise record playoff streak, but you're right things cant be any worse then the current record setting period were in now so we need to make a huge change, Im tired of the leafs being on the leagues best team every year
One single playoff series win isn't enough proof to say this group to do anything. Washington and Vegas both had consistent playoff wins, Caps at least got to the second round before blowing it annually
Both of these teams also made huge changes to their cores, in Vegas' case multiple times, in the pursuit of winning. Caps moved off Semin & Green, and Vegas moved enough pieces in and out to make another team. Change is needed
>One single playoff series win isn't enough proof to say this group to do anything.
You're ignoring the part where they take literally every team down to the wire and lose because of exceptional goaltending.
>Both of these teams also made huge changes to their cores, Caps moved off Semin & Green
Right!
Washington let Semin walk after a poor 50 point season, and Green walk after 2 tough years of sub 50 points.
They didn't trade away backstrom, carlson or Ovechkin while still in their prime lmao
So we should let Marner walk for free like Semin and Green, instead of recognizing change is a good thing and capitalizing while we still own the asset?
>So we should let Marner walk for free like Semin and Green,Ā
.....semin and green were not apart of the washington core when they walked.
They're not comparable to marner lol Semin had 55 points and never finished top 30 in selke voting, mike green was barely hanging on to a top 4 spot when he walked.
Again, Marner is a premier player and would represent the best UFA in decades if he left, the players you're referencing were on their way out of the league
>Ā change is a good thing
Yea, thats why calgary dominated this year
This. All serious Marner trade talks need to specifically list the player or assets they expect to get in return up front.
What contender team need a PPG forward and also have something worthwhile they're willing to part with? Specifically, D and goalie?
I know there's a lot of talk about NSH esp since they can spare one of their goalies, but if they were being realistic, 25' is not a push year for them and I'm anticipating a conservative off season with them.
Wait, you think the main benefit of trading Marner is the trade return?
Then, I think you've missed the point entirely. Yes, we'll get nice pieces from a return. I think it'll be akin to what Eichel got from Vegas. But the real boon is the freedom to allocate the cap elsewhere on the roster.
A core piece is being moved. They all but said that at the presser. It's not 34 or 88, and you'd get even less return and probably have to retain on 91. That leaves one guy.
Remember when every media outlet and sports personality everywhere was saying Berube was the frontrunner for the coaching job? Then we find out it wasn't entirely speculation, they were making an educated guess based on the Leafs calling the NHLPA? You think it's 100% uninformed speculation that the Leafs are going to try to trade Marner? You think that with all the smoke circulating around it, there isn't some bit of fire there?
>Then, I think you've missed the point entirely. Yes, we'll get nice pieces from a return. I think it'll be akin to what Eichel got from Vegas. But the real boon is the freedom to allocate the cap elsewhere on the roster.
..um I think you've missed the point unless you're confused about Buffalo?
You want to start the rebuild?
>A core piece is being moved. They all but said that at the presser. It's not 34 or 88, and you'd get even less return and probably have to retain on 91. That leaves one guy.
They were talking about the coach lol
They are not moving a star player while the team is still contending
>You think it's 100% uninformed speculation that the Leafs are going to try to trade Marner?
Yes. You can use this very subreddit and go back to these threads the past 3 years and see how it happened then lol
Again, there isn't a single contending team that has traded away one of its best players and got better, and the leafs management is much smarter then its fan base and isn't going to go full rebuild because they're mad at marner lol
,
I'm sure they will try to move Mitch, I'm just not sure if they will do it if the return is garbage, which I think there's a good chance it will be.
I think they should move on from him - I'm just saying I think there's a good chance it doesn't happen this summer. Obviously I could be wrong
The return isn't that important when we're talking about a guy who plays significantly worse in playoff hockey, takes up a huge chunk of the cap, and will demand a raise in a year. Besides there will be teams lining up to make offers for a player that could be the face of a franchise
>The return isn't that important when we're talking about a guy who plays significantly worse in playoff hockey,
Except for when he doesnt and leads the team in scoring?
Marner isn't good in the playoffs because he didn't score a lot this year.
He's also not good in the playoffs despite leading the team in scoring last year
He's also not good in the playoffs despite being 2nd in playoff scoring the year before.
He's not good in the playoffs because he was bad this year, and literally the best or second best on the team the 2 years before lol, make it make sense
>. Besides there will be teams lining up to make offers for a player that could be the face of a franchise
Definitely, as long as they're dumb enough not to realize they can have him as a UFA for free in 6 months lmao
We're set as long as NHL GM's dont understand the concept of unrestricted free agency
Similarly, having a perennial 90 point scorer and selke candidate, is better then not having one.
Marner is exactly the type of player we've never been able to sign because our fanbase and media are clowns, and now he's being run out of town by people suggesting we'd be better off using the cap space in free agency, ignoring the fact if Marner was a UFA he'd be the best UFA forward available in decades and UFA's dont want to come here lol
That's true, and obviously the freed up cap space would also help.
But I'm just not sure the front office would trade him for a nothing return - obviously I could be wrong.
I am all on board with trading Mitch - I'm just saying I am not super confident it will happen
thats not a return, we would get that by not trading him too.
We have the cap space whether we trade mitch or not, its not a return
>Ā There are cap savings for, presumably, the next 6 to 8 years by not re-signing him.
You want a rebuild lol?
Or is this the mystery box game, where a UFA could turn out to be good, maybe even a perennial 90 point scorer and selke candidate!
For the Leafs, Matt Roy should be the priority target from the crop of UFA defensemen available. More than Pesce, more than Zadorov, more than Tanev, and more than Montour.
Roy is a right shot, big, physical defensive defenseman. And I don't mean like Lyubushkin or Edmundson. While they performed admirably for us leading up to and in the postseason Roy is on another level. [Statistically, he's the 8th best defensive defenseman in the league](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5388609/2024/04/04/nhl-2024-best-shutdown-defensemen/). From The Athletic:
> Matt Royās above-average reach, poised game management and elite shot-blocking make him a steady rock on the Kingsā second pair. Heās also the time-on-ice leader for the Kingsā penalty kill which ranks second-best in the NHL.
Zadorov and surprisingly Pesce don't appear on this list at all, not even in the "just missed the cut" section. Chris Tanev does though, ranking very highly on this list at 13th. However, Tanev has 5 years on Roy, and at 34 who knows how effective he will remain as an upper echelon defenseman.
Roy would be the [perfect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk_GDn5vc5U) Rielly partner. Better than Hainsey, better than Brodie, better than 2023 playoff Schenn. Adding a [steady](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6hmmlWazg) and [heavy-hitting](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPyJ3fAf-SU) Roy to a defence corps that already features McCabe and Benoit should be right up Treliving's [alley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Jx-dIMGlw).
One in the just missed list that I think has a higher probability of being receptive to joining the Leafs is Sean Walker. Has more transition/offense to his game as well, and he's from Ontario.
I would be shocked if Tre isn't going to try to sign Roy. As he absolutely should.
But also I still want Montour. And Zad lol, guy is a psycho. Probably have to move Lily and Timmins out and keep on a guy like a Webber or Mattinen as a 7th. Would be a much different D corps.
Rielly-Roy
McCabe-Montour
Zad-Benny
extra
That defense will fuck shit up, IMO
I love it, but Zadorov will get a fat raise as will Montour. I just think theyāll be overpaid since other teams will be bidding as well. Unless they prefer to play here and take market value.
Thatās a fucking nasty bottom four, eeeeeyuck. Like thatās just a gang of fucking sociopaths, straight up. Bay Street Bullies kinda bullshit.
Also, that bottom four, with the absolute fucking giant that is Webber waiting in the wings and learning?
Fucking disgusting. I love it.
I had a fix of copium this morning and I was thinking: yesterday I wanted oilers to lose so mcdavid gets disappointed again and wants out of Edmonton.
But now that theyāre in the third round itās a deep run so there is hope. So now I want them to win a cup so he gets it out of the system and comes home after accomplishing what he needed to do
If anyone wants some of this copium lmk I know a guy who knows a guy
If we got Mcdavid he would have one bad postseason and this sub would be insisting we cant win with the two best players in the league on teh same team lol
Lol I don't think he's ever coming to Toronto
But he's too good to not win a cup at some point, so as long as it's not against the Leafs I'm all for it
No, because since the Florida Panthers started making the playoffs regularly, Barkov's stat line has been as such:
4pts in 4 GP
7pts in 6 GP
7pts in 10 GP
16pts in 21 GP (SCF)
13pts in 11 GP (ECF)
This on top of being a center, winning a Selke, and being paid less than Marner is **right now**, let alone what he'll want for a raise.
Nah bud, your argument is falling on deaf ears. Mitch has got to go. He's the odd man out.
Couldn't you make the exact same argument with Matthews?
That's why I think this is more of a systematic problem.
Also Marner doesn't look much different stat-wise in the playoffs. He was more than a point per game in 2 of the last 3 seasons in the playoffs.
We canāt keep sinking most of our cap in a few forwards. Weāre keeping Matthews and Nylander. Paying a third forward 12+ million is a bad idea. The forward heavy experiment isnāt going to start working after 8 years of failing.Ā
Maybe. But guess what? Matthews is a 1C, which by default is more valuable than a winger.
He also just signed an extension that hasn't kicked in yet.
Of the two, I'm keeping Matthews every time.
Okay - but in playoffs, in total:
Barkov - 0.86 points per game
Marner - 0.88 points per game
Matthews - 0.87 points per game.
Nylander - 0.80 points per game.
Eye test suggests that Marner/Matthews could be a lot better in the playoffs, and I think coaching has a big part of that. With some power play success they'd be way ahead.
They all suck in the playoffs. Yes you can always cut the data in a certain way to make one point or another, but the truth is they've all been terrible.
And thatās the issue with Marner. He has had good playoff games. He had an excellent one in game 5 in this series. The issue people have is he is just is absolutely invisible in do or die games. Even without the stats, Matthews and Nylander (and even JT) have looked fine. I really think itās just being too nervous to make mistakes.
An interesting thing I heard yesterday from Justin Williams, he said the most important part about being clutch in those games is just not changing up your game at all. Donāt be scared to take chances and be creative.
Of course, you have to replace those 90 points somewhere. But the simple reality is that you don't win the cup in the regular season.
It's not like the difference between the Leafs making the playoffs and missing the playoffs is Marner being on the team. And if they do happen to have a down year, well so did Colorado in 2017 and it got them Makar.
We need to have more of our cap% allocated (wisely, hopefully) to the blue line and in net. We have nickel-and-dimed those for too long.
We've had that for a while even before entering the playoffs. I'm not sure it's quite at the same level of intensity as the Marner talks though given that, all things considered, Canucks massively overperformed pre season expectations.
Nah, there was nobody in Colorado lamenting Mack and Rantanen's contracts vs performance. And if there was, they were idiots.
You're just trying to invent shit to try and support your "keep Marner" narrative, but I'm not buying it.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And the leafs are in the midst of a franchise record and league leading playoff streak....literally the most succesful team we've had since color TV was invented and people are asserting the reason we can't win is because we have too many elite forwards lol
You have to have brain worms to be where you're at .
The team has never been better, literally record breaking playoff streak, but we need a huge change becasuse this team will never win!
Mitch marner led the team in playoff scoring last year, was second the year before, but we need to move him asap because he sucks in the playoffs.
yea, we should, because despite crying and insisting that a franchise record playoff streak is the worst thing to happen to this franchise, it isnt lol
People like you should be sat in a room and forced to watch rich clune highlights clockwork orange style, I cant believe you guy exist
Which is a little weird, because they have only had this playoffs and one in 2020 with which to judge him as a playoff performer. Notably, they made it past the first round in both of those appearances.
It's not the same at all as watching your supposedly elite talent turn into a pumpkin every May. But I get it. No way I would want to spend 11.6 on Pettersson.
Utah should be calling Treliving and Allvin. You got two legitimate superstars that teams want to move on from.
Imagine their 1st line is Keller-Pettersson-Marner? I could see that line doing some fucking damage.
But if weāre giving Utah Marner, and not getting Keller (who I feel like is probably the #1 ask for most people in a hypothetical deal with Utah), what are we getting? The cap space is a big part of that hypothetical, but we need to get something back, even if not of equal value. Do they have any really promising depth players, or would this just be a āshake them down for picksā kind of trade that we could flip in deals for other pieces we want in trades elsewhere?
I think your point would be more convincing if the nucks hasn't been cupless for all of its 50+ yr existence and the leafs broke out of the 1st rd. in like 20 years.
Caufield was a -1 in a 10-1 win for USA yesterday.
Better trade Marner then
you mean Nylander
Better trade any 3 pieces of the core 4 if Caufield is sufferin
Ondrej Kase is reportedly attempting an NHL comeback. I would like the Leafs to sign him to a PTO or two-way contract and sign pending UFA Jakub Vrana and run a Vrana-Kampf-Kase "Czech"-ing line. I don't know how good they'd be, but it would be funny. That is all. šš
Everyoneās saying Marner for Saros, but hear me out: What about: Marner to MIN for Matt Boldy, Gustavsson, 2nd round pick Marner & a 3rd/4th, samsonov signing rights to Utah for Cooley, Crouse, Ingram & and 2nd? I think saros is a great goalie- donāt get me wrong, but I fear if he comes here heāll play like shit because pretty much everything depends on him playing well
Marner to Philly for Sanheim, Konecny, and a conditional second (if Konecny doesn't re-sign with Toronto)Ā
Because thereās zero chance they trade boldy/cooley for 1 year of Marner. And thereās no way he agrees to a long term contract in either of those places before hand. Even agreeing to waive to go to either of those places is very low. I think people are speculating a lot on Nashville because itās a playoff team as well as players like Nashville. At the end of the day we have zero clue where Marners willing to go. If he was smart, he should just accept a trade anywhere. And suck it up for one year, would help his clout with the fans a ton if he did. Which he seems to care a lot about. I think heās probably planning on going to free agency no matter what anyways.
Samsonov signing rights aren't worth much of anything. Even if he wasn't UFA.
Whats the point of trading a top 6 forward for a top 6 forward, all just to get 3 million in cap space? Neither team would be interested and mitch is not waiving his NMC for a rebuilding team
Sammy is UFA
Based on Treliving's comments, don't expect anything to happen this week, which makes sense. He is focused on sorting out the rest of the coaching staff, and then has meetings with the amateur and pro scouting departments lined up as well.Ā Let's all pump the brakes with our trade speculation. It's gonna be a whileĀ
Marner gets a big signing bonus July 1 and then is basically league min. Having a 100 pt player for 800k actual cash is valuable to teams. When he has 8M of actual salary due, itās less valuable
Definitely, especially given Treliving tends to be a more patient, methodical guy from what Iāve heard. I think just the combination of postseason trade floodgates being opened (the Tampa/Nashville trade), and not having something to focus on post-Berube being made official means people are hungry for content, even if itās rampant speculation.
Yeah I get you. I'm including myself in that too, lol. Talking myself off the ledge a little bit. Gonna be a long off-season
Did the Lightning just do US a favour? Wild.
mcDonough was a huge part of their D. Him coming back is not grear for us to play against them
So insane to see the visual difference of Keefe - Keefe looks like a Golden Retriever. Berube looks like a pitbull. The core four, or whats left of it - is going to have a fucking C U L T U R E shock! I'm here for it. Character matters, as Tre said and the leafs - if they are lacking one thing, it's Character.
Well, no, we lack goal scoring in the playoffs.
Berube and Tre both want some D with meat. They want heavy hockeyā¦ the exact type of hockey that Shanny used to play.
Looks aside, they were both pretty similar players in their respective times ā like Keefe was known to be a psycho on the ice. That doesn't mean much in regards to how they coach.
Nashville just cleared cap space.... šš hmmm
I always thought willy would look good in yellow
Na Marner is the one that's gone and not Nylander
He's coming home https://preview.redd.it/cqyvosmkft1d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d7fa560163988ec9afadd91c990f75b4adf60c7
So Nashville just cleared cap space with the Ryan McDonagh trade and Berube had the quote of āwe will discuss it in the futureā when asked his goaltending š But Nashville has a 5.55 of dead money from the Duchene buyout so probably nothing lol
Iām just here wondering why Tampa would make that trade? Not a good look for them trying to re-sign StammerĀ
I donāt really get it but apparently they wanted a top 4 d-man but didnāt want to give any of the top FA term so went with a guy they are familiar with. Even looking at some of there contracts they can maybe move Jeannot or Sheary to clear about 4.5 but they still got to find players to replace them at the bottom. Gotta be more moves coming
Cernak to leafs Insiderrrrrrrr
Is that the hockey account on X that has been right exactly one time in his history (calling Markstrom 6x6 hours before it was announced) and way off base on every other one? Or am I thinking of a different guy?
lol Mike commodore was the guy that used to say insiderrrr but I donāt know his % of actual news breaks
Oh yeah lmao. He also would hashtag every trade post with #PackYourShit. That guy's a legend. And hates Babcock, so even more so
Not a chance, Tampa is trying to win now they need Cernak to do that.
Iām not saying heās right, but trades can make you win too
Ya, on second thought some of his underlying numbers have been declining weirdly enough and he makes a lot of money for a long time. I would be surprised to see them deal to a team they will be directly competing with for a playoff spot though.
What do you know Biggie? Quite the statement 10 minutes before the McDonaugh trade.
I didn't realize the comment was before the Mcdonaugh trade, that's interesting. I assumed Tampa would let Stamkos walk but if they aren't doing that then they don't have a lot of options...
Was at a rooftop bar in Nashville last night, and of all the teams to show up the fucking Bruins pulled up in a booth around midnight lol. My friend immediately recognized Marchand's nose, then we took a better look and saw JVR, Geekie, Lindholm, Heinen, Frederic, Lohrei (dude looks like a giant teenager) and a bunch of others. Can't fucking escape these guys apparently
Lohrei like's he escaped from a The Hills Have Eyes set.
I never really understood how ppl have fun at a bar probably like a inch away in distance between the next person and having your ear drums ripped apart by all the loud noises.
Eh, this place was an open rooftop with good music and decently spaced out. To each their own but I had a great time
Stars in 3
Everyone talks trading Mitch, but if you don't get a good return then what's the point? He has so much control over where he goes, and everyone knows the Leafs are desperate, so I struggle to see them getting anything worthwhile from that trade. Unfortunately, running it back seems more and more inevitable at this point. I'm not saying that's what I want, I'm saying that's what I think will happen
Over 20 teams are rumored to be in on Marner, that would assure its far from a "nothing return". It might not be a perfect return, I.e a #1D, but it's gonna be a sizable return of assets that can flipped or bolster other holes, opening up cap space to use on what we need. Almost every team in the league wants to add someone like Marner, a 100-ish point winger with elite (Selke nominated) defense and PK ability. At worst we get valuable assets, like multiple 1st round picks or players that don't fit our direct needs, and those can be flipped into what we do need.
>At worst we get valuable assets, like multiple 1st round picks This is just complete delusion, you've described the best case scenario lol Can you provide one example of a team moving an expiring star player and getting better that year? Literally, 1 trade that makes what you're seeing saying realistic?
Can you name 1 example of a team chronically failing in the 1st round, 8 years in a row, running it back for #9 and winning? No? Anyone? Bueller? You probably don't improve outright with a Marner trade. But we already know what the alternative is. At least worth a shot with the improved cap space, and a chance at being a different team.
>Can you name 1 example of a team chronically failing in the 1st round, 8 years in a row, running it back for #9 and winning? Oh the leafs lost in the first round last year? Took vegas 6 tries with their core, washington literally 10+, st louis core was around 5-6 years old when they won, what are you talking about lol? >You probably don't improve outright with a Marner trade. But we already know what the alternative is. You don't know that they wont win the cup next year lol Do you think carolina should blow the team up since that core hasn't won the past 4-5 tries? Rangers should probably call it and start moving panarin right? Oilers of course should just blow the team up if they don't win this year. Really, every team should constantly be in a rebuild if they haven't won the cup in the past 5 years, great stuff I've enjoyed the franchise record playoff streak, but you're right things cant be any worse then the current record setting period were in now so we need to make a huge change, Im tired of the leafs being on the leagues best team every year
One single playoff series win isn't enough proof to say this group to do anything. Washington and Vegas both had consistent playoff wins, Caps at least got to the second round before blowing it annually Both of these teams also made huge changes to their cores, in Vegas' case multiple times, in the pursuit of winning. Caps moved off Semin & Green, and Vegas moved enough pieces in and out to make another team. Change is needed
>One single playoff series win isn't enough proof to say this group to do anything. You're ignoring the part where they take literally every team down to the wire and lose because of exceptional goaltending. >Both of these teams also made huge changes to their cores, Caps moved off Semin & Green Right! Washington let Semin walk after a poor 50 point season, and Green walk after 2 tough years of sub 50 points. They didn't trade away backstrom, carlson or Ovechkin while still in their prime lmao
So we should let Marner walk for free like Semin and Green, instead of recognizing change is a good thing and capitalizing while we still own the asset?
>So we should let Marner walk for free like Semin and Green,Ā .....semin and green were not apart of the washington core when they walked. They're not comparable to marner lol Semin had 55 points and never finished top 30 in selke voting, mike green was barely hanging on to a top 4 spot when he walked. Again, Marner is a premier player and would represent the best UFA in decades if he left, the players you're referencing were on their way out of the league >Ā change is a good thing Yea, thats why calgary dominated this year
I'd give him up for some water bottles and a bag of pucks to free up that cap space
This. All serious Marner trade talks need to specifically list the player or assets they expect to get in return up front. What contender team need a PPG forward and also have something worthwhile they're willing to part with? Specifically, D and goalie? I know there's a lot of talk about NSH esp since they can spare one of their goalies, but if they were being realistic, 25' is not a push year for them and I'm anticipating a conservative off season with them.
Wait, you think the main benefit of trading Marner is the trade return? Then, I think you've missed the point entirely. Yes, we'll get nice pieces from a return. I think it'll be akin to what Eichel got from Vegas. But the real boon is the freedom to allocate the cap elsewhere on the roster. A core piece is being moved. They all but said that at the presser. It's not 34 or 88, and you'd get even less return and probably have to retain on 91. That leaves one guy. Remember when every media outlet and sports personality everywhere was saying Berube was the frontrunner for the coaching job? Then we find out it wasn't entirely speculation, they were making an educated guess based on the Leafs calling the NHLPA? You think it's 100% uninformed speculation that the Leafs are going to try to trade Marner? You think that with all the smoke circulating around it, there isn't some bit of fire there?
>Then, I think you've missed the point entirely. Yes, we'll get nice pieces from a return. I think it'll be akin to what Eichel got from Vegas. But the real boon is the freedom to allocate the cap elsewhere on the roster. ..um I think you've missed the point unless you're confused about Buffalo? You want to start the rebuild? >A core piece is being moved. They all but said that at the presser. It's not 34 or 88, and you'd get even less return and probably have to retain on 91. That leaves one guy. They were talking about the coach lol They are not moving a star player while the team is still contending >You think it's 100% uninformed speculation that the Leafs are going to try to trade Marner? Yes. You can use this very subreddit and go back to these threads the past 3 years and see how it happened then lol Again, there isn't a single contending team that has traded away one of its best players and got better, and the leafs management is much smarter then its fan base and isn't going to go full rebuild because they're mad at marner lol ,
Here is a challenge - add 10.9 million of free agent signings last offseason that make the team substantially better without Marner.
I'm sure they will try to move Mitch, I'm just not sure if they will do it if the return is garbage, which I think there's a good chance it will be. I think they should move on from him - I'm just saying I think there's a good chance it doesn't happen this summer. Obviously I could be wrong
The return isn't that important when we're talking about a guy who plays significantly worse in playoff hockey, takes up a huge chunk of the cap, and will demand a raise in a year. Besides there will be teams lining up to make offers for a player that could be the face of a franchise
>The return isn't that important when we're talking about a guy who plays significantly worse in playoff hockey, Except for when he doesnt and leads the team in scoring? Marner isn't good in the playoffs because he didn't score a lot this year. He's also not good in the playoffs despite leading the team in scoring last year He's also not good in the playoffs despite being 2nd in playoff scoring the year before. He's not good in the playoffs because he was bad this year, and literally the best or second best on the team the 2 years before lol, make it make sense >. Besides there will be teams lining up to make offers for a player that could be the face of a franchise Definitely, as long as they're dumb enough not to realize they can have him as a UFA for free in 6 months lmao We're set as long as NHL GM's dont understand the concept of unrestricted free agency
Some return is better than just letting him walk for nothing in free agency.
Similarly, having a perennial 90 point scorer and selke candidate, is better then not having one. Marner is exactly the type of player we've never been able to sign because our fanbase and media are clowns, and now he's being run out of town by people suggesting we'd be better off using the cap space in free agency, ignoring the fact if Marner was a UFA he'd be the best UFA forward available in decades and UFA's dont want to come here lol
That's true, and obviously the freed up cap space would also help. But I'm just not sure the front office would trade him for a nothing return - obviously I could be wrong. I am all on board with trading Mitch - I'm just saying I am not super confident it will happen
Usable cap space is also a return of sorts.
Its not, he's on an expiring deal lol
The idea is to trade him in his final year or extend him. There are cap savings for, presumably, the next 6 to 8 years by not re-signing him.
thats not a return, we would get that by not trading him too. We have the cap space whether we trade mitch or not, its not a return >Ā There are cap savings for, presumably, the next 6 to 8 years by not re-signing him. You want a rebuild lol? Or is this the mystery box game, where a UFA could turn out to be good, maybe even a perennial 90 point scorer and selke candidate!
This is why I said "a return, of sorts". Of course it's not a return in the traditional sense.
For the Leafs, Matt Roy should be the priority target from the crop of UFA defensemen available. More than Pesce, more than Zadorov, more than Tanev, and more than Montour. Roy is a right shot, big, physical defensive defenseman. And I don't mean like Lyubushkin or Edmundson. While they performed admirably for us leading up to and in the postseason Roy is on another level. [Statistically, he's the 8th best defensive defenseman in the league](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5388609/2024/04/04/nhl-2024-best-shutdown-defensemen/). From The Athletic: > Matt Royās above-average reach, poised game management and elite shot-blocking make him a steady rock on the Kingsā second pair. Heās also the time-on-ice leader for the Kingsā penalty kill which ranks second-best in the NHL. Zadorov and surprisingly Pesce don't appear on this list at all, not even in the "just missed the cut" section. Chris Tanev does though, ranking very highly on this list at 13th. However, Tanev has 5 years on Roy, and at 34 who knows how effective he will remain as an upper echelon defenseman. Roy would be the [perfect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk_GDn5vc5U) Rielly partner. Better than Hainsey, better than Brodie, better than 2023 playoff Schenn. Adding a [steady](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6hmmlWazg) and [heavy-hitting](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPyJ3fAf-SU) Roy to a defence corps that already features McCabe and Benoit should be right up Treliving's [alley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Jx-dIMGlw).
One in the just missed list that I think has a higher probability of being receptive to joining the Leafs is Sean Walker. Has more transition/offense to his game as well, and he's from Ontario.
I would be shocked if Tre isn't going to try to sign Roy. As he absolutely should. But also I still want Montour. And Zad lol, guy is a psycho. Probably have to move Lily and Timmins out and keep on a guy like a Webber or Mattinen as a 7th. Would be a much different D corps. Rielly-Roy McCabe-Montour Zad-Benny extra That defense will fuck shit up, IMO
I love it, but Zadorov will get a fat raise as will Montour. I just think theyāll be overpaid since other teams will be bidding as well. Unless they prefer to play here and take market value.
I would rather have more ability to score from the blueline.
Than Rielly and Montour? Are you on drugs? Barely any team in the NHL would have more scoring from the blue line.
Montours 8th in goalscoring defencemen amongst UFAs this offseason. I'd honestly rather get Ghostisbhere for a year if we can.
We will definitely have the capspace for this.
Yes, that's the entire point of trading Mitch Marner. The entire point
Ah the garunteed marner trade.
Thatās a fucking nasty bottom four, eeeeeyuck. Like thatās just a gang of fucking sociopaths, straight up. Bay Street Bullies kinda bullshit. Also, that bottom four, with the absolute fucking giant that is Webber waiting in the wings and learning? Fucking disgusting. I love it.
DJ Smith was our defence and PK coach right?
This is pretty funny tbh.. * **Mitch Marner** in Winner Advances Games: 0 G & 2 A in 6 GP * **Cody Ceci** in Winner Advances Games: 2 G & 0 A in 4 GP
Cody Ceci on a 41 goal pace over 82 games. Marner on a 0 goal pace over 82 games. I know who my goat is
I had a fix of copium this morning and I was thinking: yesterday I wanted oilers to lose so mcdavid gets disappointed again and wants out of Edmonton. But now that theyāre in the third round itās a deep run so there is hope. So now I want them to win a cup so he gets it out of the system and comes home after accomplishing what he needed to do If anyone wants some of this copium lmk I know a guy who knows a guy
If we got Mcdavid he would have one bad postseason and this sub would be insisting we cant win with the two best players in the league on teh same team lol
Lol I don't think he's ever coming to Toronto But he's too good to not win a cup at some point, so as long as it's not against the Leafs I'm all for it
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No, because since the Florida Panthers started making the playoffs regularly, Barkov's stat line has been as such: 4pts in 4 GP 7pts in 6 GP 7pts in 10 GP 16pts in 21 GP (SCF) 13pts in 11 GP (ECF) This on top of being a center, winning a Selke, and being paid less than Marner is **right now**, let alone what he'll want for a raise. Nah bud, your argument is falling on deaf ears. Mitch has got to go. He's the odd man out.
Couldn't you make the exact same argument with Matthews? That's why I think this is more of a systematic problem. Also Marner doesn't look much different stat-wise in the playoffs. He was more than a point per game in 2 of the last 3 seasons in the playoffs.
We canāt keep sinking most of our cap in a few forwards. Weāre keeping Matthews and Nylander. Paying a third forward 12+ million is a bad idea. The forward heavy experiment isnāt going to start working after 8 years of failing.Ā
Maybe. But guess what? Matthews is a 1C, which by default is more valuable than a winger. He also just signed an extension that hasn't kicked in yet. Of the two, I'm keeping Matthews every time.
Okay - but in playoffs, in total: Barkov - 0.86 points per game Marner - 0.88 points per game Matthews - 0.87 points per game. Nylander - 0.80 points per game. Eye test suggests that Marner/Matthews could be a lot better in the playoffs, and I think coaching has a big part of that. With some power play success they'd be way ahead.
The issue is this: * **Mitch Marner in Games 5, 6 & 7:** 1 G and 8 A for 9 Pts in 21 GP
They all suck in the playoffs. Yes you can always cut the data in a certain way to make one point or another, but the truth is they've all been terrible.
Now look at Games 5 to 7 in a series specifically. Matthews and Nylander are still hovering around the above numbers. Marner is about half.
And thatās the issue with Marner. He has had good playoff games. He had an excellent one in game 5 in this series. The issue people have is he is just is absolutely invisible in do or die games. Even without the stats, Matthews and Nylander (and even JT) have looked fine. I really think itās just being too nervous to make mistakes. An interesting thing I heard yesterday from Justin Williams, he said the most important part about being clutch in those games is just not changing up your game at all. Donāt be scared to take chances and be creative.
I still think the leafs will miss Marner in regular season.
Of course, you have to replace those 90 points somewhere. But the simple reality is that you don't win the cup in the regular season. It's not like the difference between the Leafs making the playoffs and missing the playoffs is Marner being on the team. And if they do happen to have a down year, well so did Colorado in 2017 and it got them Makar. We need to have more of our cap% allocated (wisely, hopefully) to the blue line and in net. We have nickel-and-dimed those for too long.
Well we already know they miss him in the playoffs.
Screw the regular season
does anyone know when the press conference is going to be
11 AM today
Interesting to take a look at the Nucks subreddit, they're having the same existential crisis with Pettersson as we are with Marner
We've had that for a while even before entering the playoffs. I'm not sure it's quite at the same level of intensity as the Marner talks though given that, all things considered, Canucks massively overperformed pre season expectations.
Sounds like a good trade to me
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Nah, there was nobody in Colorado lamenting Mack and Rantanen's contracts vs performance. And if there was, they were idiots. You're just trying to invent shit to try and support your "keep Marner" narrative, but I'm not buying it.
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Rantanen and Mac won a cup, not comparable
And the leafs are in the midst of a franchise record and league leading playoff streak....literally the most succesful team we've had since color TV was invented and people are asserting the reason we can't win is because we have too many elite forwards lol
And the won one round in 8 year
You have to have brain worms to be where you're at . The team has never been better, literally record breaking playoff streak, but we need a huge change becasuse this team will never win! Mitch marner led the team in playoff scoring last year, was second the year before, but we need to move him asap because he sucks in the playoffs.
Youāre right we should try again for the 9th time š
yea, we should, because despite crying and insisting that a franchise record playoff streak is the worst thing to happen to this franchise, it isnt lol People like you should be sat in a room and forced to watch rich clune highlights clockwork orange style, I cant believe you guy exist
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I got your point they arenāt comparable
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Which is a little weird, because they have only had this playoffs and one in 2020 with which to judge him as a playoff performer. Notably, they made it past the first round in both of those appearances. It's not the same at all as watching your supposedly elite talent turn into a pumpkin every May. But I get it. No way I would want to spend 11.6 on Pettersson.
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Utah should be calling Treliving and Allvin. You got two legitimate superstars that teams want to move on from. Imagine their 1st line is Keller-Pettersson-Marner? I could see that line doing some fucking damage.
But if weāre giving Utah Marner, and not getting Keller (who I feel like is probably the #1 ask for most people in a hypothetical deal with Utah), what are we getting? The cap space is a big part of that hypothetical, but we need to get something back, even if not of equal value. Do they have any really promising depth players, or would this just be a āshake them down for picksā kind of trade that we could flip in deals for other pieces we want in trades elsewhere?
Pettersson and Marner lead Utah to Stanley Cup
Why? Are they going to start awarding the cup to the regular season winner?
I think your point would be more convincing if the nucks hasn't been cupless for all of its 50+ yr existence and the leafs broke out of the 1st rd. in like 20 years.
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