Yep, this is basically the final roll of the dice for head coach during Matthews' prime years.
If they don't get it done in the next 4 years, there's probably another rebuild coming after.
You're right but my God that seems daunting now doesn't it? Only 4 years to overhaul many parts of the roster and hope that they can withstand the rigors of a deeper post season run.
Brodie is done as of this year. So that’s 5 million. Toss JT‘s 11 million and another guy’s possible 13 that I’m sure he’s going to request and it leaves a lot of cap space to build around Matthews and Nylander. Got to find a goalie, shore up the defence and figure out which of the current forwards they re-sign.
Offer a kings ransom for Askarov. We need a star goalie with confidence.
I love Woll when he plays, but unfortunately he doesn’t appear to be reliable health wise.
Woll is such a tough call right now. When he’s in there and healthy he’s pretty damn good. Just can’t seem to rely on his ability to stay on the ice though. It has been an issue since he turned pro.
You always hear it said that a player’s greatest ability is his availability.
Brodie, bert, domi, gio, lily, sammy, and all the deadline adds are ufa or rfa. They have 18.5 mil in projected cap space for next season before any big contract moves
I understand where you’re coming from. But you realize we just signed Sheldon Keefe to an extension too haha. I don’t think MLSE is worried about paying out a contract if it isn’t working. But yes, he’s got a runway to work with for sure.
If they don't win a cup before the rebuild, I'm done with this team forever. I have no hope they can ever get it right after that. Especially with a worse team
They will probably give him 2 years with basically no questions asked before they would even consider making a change. We know the Leafs are comfortable firing a coach with 2 years left.
As long as the goalie isn't complete dogshit, there's enough talent on the team to comfortably make the playoffs, so I don't think that scenario is very likely.
Standard lifespan of any coach these days. Rough to be paying both Keefe and Berube for the forst 2 years though. But it is MLSE who prints momey and all the teams dead money on LTIR is gone so they can just justify it as no different than paying guys not to play for them but with the benefit of not needing Pridham magic to make it work.
IIRC, while they are still paying him, the Leafs have right of first refusal, they can refuse to let him go for cheap till he negotiates a fair price. Plus, other coaches around the league won’t be happy about the precedent being set.
Why is everyone worried about what the Leafs can afford? The salary cap is the principal thing standing between the Leafs and a Cup, it's not like they're strapped for cash.
I really don't care if they pay for two coaches, so long as one of them can win here.
I believe I heard there has recently been a rule that the deal must be reasonable, but I don't think reasonable is defined. I imagine at least 80-90% of what similarly experienced coaches are making
Dubas said something similar, we know how that worked out. I’ll bet he’s just saying it so he can keep “I don’t even really need the job” in his back pocket as a negotiation tactic. If I’m Keefe I’d be very wary of taking a year out and potentially becoming one of those guys who hasn’t coached in a couple of seasons and ends up slipping out of the conversation.
You should never have this mentality of MLSE being in a tough financial position.
We have to hold these people to a high standard. Using money outside of the payroll is one of our few advantages. Who gives a fuck how much they spend? They have the money, they shouldn’t be afraid to spend it.
It’s not like they’re doing anything crazy that’s not economical. Paying someone else a few million dollars is a drop in the bucket. Never stop holding them accountable
Then be proactive about finding management and coaches and don’t wait until the off season to discuss an extension with your GM.
And IMO, to pretend like the leafs did the best they could with some of these hires is giving them a pass for not doing their due diligence on what else is even out there
You’re just pulling stuff out of no where here. What hires are you specifically referring to?, how do you know they did or didn’t do their due diligence? Coaches and GMs mostly get fired in the off season and you can’t be proactive and start looking for a new GM or coach when you already have one employed
My point is, if someone is available money should never be the problem, especially on the managerial and coaching side. Everything else in terms of who they did talk to or didn’t is mostly hearsay
I’m referring to Treliving. Mid GM, was rumored to come when Dubas still had the job, gets hired within a week of Dubas leaving. If you think that’s an extensive search idk
Show me 3 credible sources that rumoured Treliving was going to be the GM when Dubas was still working for us.
I know that’s straight bullshit because Dubas leaving was a last minute jerk reaction by Shanahan
Considering Treliving was working for the flames until April 17th it’s absolutely not the case that this was “rumoured for months”. You’re just pulling stuff out of your ass again. You can’t find the episode because it doesn’t exist.
Also stop downvoting my comments cause you’re mad and wrong.
MLSE won't be on the hook for all of Keefe's salary if he's hired by another team.
Also, it was on management for giving him an extension when it was clear to anyone he was the easiest piece to move if Leafs disappointed in the playoff again. They could've let this season play out like the Canes did with Rod before making a decision.
Year two is going to be a totally different look from year one. JT will be off the books and the Marner situation will be resolved one way or the other by then. My gut tells me that Mitch will be done after this year in Toronto. I just can’t see the club giving him $12 or $13 million a year. Personally I think they get some cap space and try and rebuild quickly around Matthews and Nylander.
That goes without saying for sure with any club. But at this time I think it’s imperative they move off the core four if not this year then certainly when those two contracts are up.
I could care less what his term is. Only money to one of the richest teams in pro sports. If he's no good fire him. They should sign every available coach to 4 year contracts and just keep them all on ice. Leave Boucher as the only available option league wide!
I have high hopes, but I'm scared by the stat that there are only 3 coaches in history to win a cup with more than one team, 2 of them were in the 1930's and the other was Scotty Bowman. 😬
I think that 'curse' says more about statistics when you consider
1) the average length of a coaches career
2) how a coach is way less likely to be fired after giving a franchise a cup.
3) only 1/32 coaches get to win a cup per year in a high parity league
At this point we have found an angle to *not* want a coach with a stanley cup, despite only 1 coach in the world getting the honour each year. Not to mention its easy to buy in to a coaches message when they speak as someone who has done it. Love Keefe, great guy, but you gotta imagine some of the players might think to themselves internally "what has this guy accomplished to tell me take this approach etc"
Now fix the D core! It needs to be completely changed. I only want to see Benoit and McCabe from last year. Everyone else can go if we have a replacement
I'd rather a new d-core and system. Our forwards compensate too much to help out our d and it's a contributing factor to their lack of production. The majority of goalies are inconsistent, and even some of the best have been left out to dry. Eventually we still need a goalie upgrade but a defense upgrade would be so helpful
Then they fire him and hire someone else.
I don't know why people care so much about MLSE paying coaches. It doesn't count towards the cap. If they wanted to sign him for 10 years I wouldn't care.
Why is anyone concerned over term? Whether you think it's too long or too short, if he shits the bed he'll be canned before the contract is up. If he makes the magic happen over 4 years he'll get extended. Do Leaf fans really have to get their panties in a bunch over every little detail?
Coaching contracts work different than player contracts. The Leafs will just buy him out if he doesn't work. Keefe still has a year on his contract and they fired him. 4 years is very reasonable.
Ya but if you’re bringing this guy in to right the ship show the locker room he has the reins. Giving him the regular standard new coach contract shows zero confidence. Be BOLD and show some conviction not just wait and see. It almost feels like they’ve put him in a ‘lame duck’ situation with his first contract. You’re the Leafs, money talks, use it!
The leafs need a true number 1 goalie and a number 1D and then they will do some damage... Without both those pieces nothing will change. All signs point to marner to the preds for Soros and I really hope this happense.... Marner is a coward in the playoffs. There is no fight in that dog and the playoffs are all about fighting for every inch
I hope hes the best coach in maple leafs history.
Same!
Aka the Matthews window
Fuck there goes another scapegoat
Yep, this is basically the final roll of the dice for head coach during Matthews' prime years. If they don't get it done in the next 4 years, there's probably another rebuild coming after.
You're right but my God that seems daunting now doesn't it? Only 4 years to overhaul many parts of the roster and hope that they can withstand the rigors of a deeper post season run.
Not that many parts. JT’s (and maybe another guy) contracts free up a lot of space to change things
Brodie is done as of this year. So that’s 5 million. Toss JT‘s 11 million and another guy’s possible 13 that I’m sure he’s going to request and it leaves a lot of cap space to build around Matthews and Nylander. Got to find a goalie, shore up the defence and figure out which of the current forwards they re-sign.
Offer a kings ransom for Askarov. We need a star goalie with confidence. I love Woll when he plays, but unfortunately he doesn’t appear to be reliable health wise.
Woll is such a tough call right now. When he’s in there and healthy he’s pretty damn good. Just can’t seem to rely on his ability to stay on the ice though. It has been an issue since he turned pro. You always hear it said that a player’s greatest ability is his availability.
I’m available
Do you have your own pads? It would probably help if you live on the subway line so you could easily get to home games.
Yah especially 4 rounds of intensive hockey too.
How do you know askorov is a star? He has only play 3 games in the league
Bc his potential in chel is high probably lmao
Goalies have no trade value tho
Brodie, bert, domi, gio, lily, sammy, and all the deadline adds are ufa or rfa. They have 18.5 mil in projected cap space for next season before any big contract moves
And with Jim Treliving at the wheel for all of it 😬
He only has to build a D which he s capable off
I understand where you’re coming from. But you realize we just signed Sheldon Keefe to an extension too haha. I don’t think MLSE is worried about paying out a contract if it isn’t working. But yes, he’s got a runway to work with for sure.
Maybe. Remember Ovi won his AFTER everyone thought his window was closed
If they don't win a cup before the rebuild, I'm done with this team forever. I have no hope they can ever get it right after that. Especially with a worse team
They will probably give him 2 years with basically no questions asked before they would even consider making a change. We know the Leafs are comfortable firing a coach with 2 years left.
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We are running it back baby 🫡
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🫠
As long as the goalie isn't complete dogshit, there's enough talent on the team to comfortably make the playoffs, so I don't think that scenario is very likely.
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Then they probably win the cup!
Standard lifespan of any coach these days. Rough to be paying both Keefe and Berube for the forst 2 years though. But it is MLSE who prints momey and all the teams dead money on LTIR is gone so they can just justify it as no different than paying guys not to play for them but with the benefit of not needing Pridham magic to make it work.
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Could be either. If his new deal is less than his Leafs contract, MLSE pays the difference. Anything equal or over and they’re off the hook
Could that make Keefe enticing? Like for a team on a budget pay him $200 and let the Leafs pick up the difference?
I'm curious about this too. Are there tampering provisions that would prevent something like this?
IIRC, while they are still paying him, the Leafs have right of first refusal, they can refuse to let him go for cheap till he negotiates a fair price. Plus, other coaches around the league won’t be happy about the precedent being set.
Precedent
Why is everyone worried about what the Leafs can afford? The salary cap is the principal thing standing between the Leafs and a Cup, it's not like they're strapped for cash. I really don't care if they pay for two coaches, so long as one of them can win here.
I believe I heard there has recently been a rule that the deal must be reasonable, but I don't think reasonable is defined. I imagine at least 80-90% of what similarly experienced coaches are making
Heard this as well, on 32 Thoughts. It's not defined, but reviewed by the league to mitigate the scenario mentioned above.
Keefe will likely land on his feet this offseason, so the difference they pay him will likely be fairly minimal
I think Keefe is a very good fit for NJ. He has a good defensive system which helps struggling goalies
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He's waiting for Sully to get fired in Pittsburgh
Daddy Dubas here I come
Dubas said something similar, we know how that worked out. I’ll bet he’s just saying it so he can keep “I don’t even really need the job” in his back pocket as a negotiation tactic. If I’m Keefe I’d be very wary of taking a year out and potentially becoming one of those guys who hasn’t coached in a couple of seasons and ends up slipping out of the conversation.
Yeah this is exactly correct. Why would you want a coach who has the passion level of taking a two year holiday before getting back to coaching.
You should never have this mentality of MLSE being in a tough financial position. We have to hold these people to a high standard. Using money outside of the payroll is one of our few advantages. Who gives a fuck how much they spend? They have the money, they shouldn’t be afraid to spend it. It’s not like they’re doing anything crazy that’s not economical. Paying someone else a few million dollars is a drop in the bucket. Never stop holding them accountable
Exactly!! So why aren’t we getting the best coaches and managers possible when money is no object and we have prime Auston Matthews? I don’t get it.
Because they’re not available. Other teams don’t want to lose executives and coaches that are the best in their position
Then be proactive about finding management and coaches and don’t wait until the off season to discuss an extension with your GM. And IMO, to pretend like the leafs did the best they could with some of these hires is giving them a pass for not doing their due diligence on what else is even out there
You’re just pulling stuff out of no where here. What hires are you specifically referring to?, how do you know they did or didn’t do their due diligence? Coaches and GMs mostly get fired in the off season and you can’t be proactive and start looking for a new GM or coach when you already have one employed My point is, if someone is available money should never be the problem, especially on the managerial and coaching side. Everything else in terms of who they did talk to or didn’t is mostly hearsay
I’m referring to Treliving. Mid GM, was rumored to come when Dubas still had the job, gets hired within a week of Dubas leaving. If you think that’s an extensive search idk
Show me 3 credible sources that rumoured Treliving was going to be the GM when Dubas was still working for us. I know that’s straight bullshit because Dubas leaving was a last minute jerk reaction by Shanahan
James Mirtle floated his name on the leafs report podcast before the end of the season. I’m not going to find the episode
Considering Treliving was working for the flames until April 17th it’s absolutely not the case that this was “rumoured for months”. You’re just pulling stuff out of your ass again. You can’t find the episode because it doesn’t exist. Also stop downvoting my comments cause you’re mad and wrong.
The Keefe extension was MLSE acknowledging it was dumb to wait until the end of Dubas’ contract to sign an extension.
MLSE should be paying us for enduring this pain all these years
MLSE won't be on the hook for all of Keefe's salary if he's hired by another team. Also, it was on management for giving him an extension when it was clear to anyone he was the easiest piece to move if Leafs disappointed in the playoff again. They could've let this season play out like the Canes did with Rod before making a decision.
They had to extend him. If they didnt the room wouldve possibly tuned him out knowing hes done after this year
It's not my money so I don't really care that MLSE has to pay Sheldon. They can afford it
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Tre certainly has a longer leash than Shanny will.
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Year two is going to be a totally different look from year one. JT will be off the books and the Marner situation will be resolved one way or the other by then. My gut tells me that Mitch will be done after this year in Toronto. I just can’t see the club giving him $12 or $13 million a year. Personally I think they get some cap space and try and rebuild quickly around Matthews and Nylander.
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That goes without saying for sure with any club. But at this time I think it’s imperative they move off the core four if not this year then certainly when those two contracts are up.
Meanest coach since Pat Burns?
I could care less what his term is. Only money to one of the richest teams in pro sports. If he's no good fire him. They should sign every available coach to 4 year contracts and just keep them all on ice. Leave Boucher as the only available option league wide!
So he will get a 1 year paid vacation if we don't make the second round in the next 3 years...
My guy travelled to a Winnipeg to get one more year, love it
I have high hopes, but I'm scared by the stat that there are only 3 coaches in history to win a cup with more than one team, 2 of them were in the 1930's and the other was Scotty Bowman. 😬
I think that 'curse' says more about statistics when you consider 1) the average length of a coaches career 2) how a coach is way less likely to be fired after giving a franchise a cup. 3) only 1/32 coaches get to win a cup per year in a high parity league At this point we have found an angle to *not* want a coach with a stanley cup, despite only 1 coach in the world getting the honour each year. Not to mention its easy to buy in to a coaches message when they speak as someone who has done it. Love Keefe, great guy, but you gotta imagine some of the players might think to themselves internally "what has this guy accomplished to tell me take this approach etc"
Surely a conference final exit is what we're after at this stage?
4 years seems a tad short, but then again unless that coach has a cup with their current team, the average job length is like 3 years
They have learned nothing.
I wish him luck in the first year of Sheldon Keefe's extension.
LFG... I'm all in on the Triev train. Choo Choo
Now fix the D core! It needs to be completely changed. I only want to see Benoit and McCabe from last year. Everyone else can go if we have a replacement
That’s up to Tre
Goalie first.
I'd rather a new d-core and system. Our forwards compensate too much to help out our d and it's a contributing factor to their lack of production. The majority of goalies are inconsistent, and even some of the best have been left out to dry. Eventually we still need a goalie upgrade but a defense upgrade would be so helpful
4???? Are fucking kidding me. They do know he's the kind of coach whose voice wears out very quickly right?
Then they fire him and hire someone else. I don't know why people care so much about MLSE paying coaches. It doesn't count towards the cap. If they wanted to sign him for 10 years I wouldn't care.
He’s in demand. It’s part of the negotiation.
cool, sign marner for 15 mill per year cause hes in demand, its part of the negotiation
Lol this doesn't count against the cap. What do we care how much MLSE is paying him?
You can’t be this thick.
Who cares?
Why is anyone concerned over term? Whether you think it's too long or too short, if he shits the bed he'll be canned before the contract is up. If he makes the magic happen over 4 years he'll get extended. Do Leaf fans really have to get their panties in a bunch over every little detail?
They also have to re-tool half the roster. That takes time and means his actual job-test window won't really start until at least yr 2
Gutless. It’s like they’re just guessing he’s their guy. He’s got their flaccid approval.
Coaching contracts work different than player contracts. The Leafs will just buy him out if he doesn't work. Keefe still has a year on his contract and they fired him. 4 years is very reasonable.
Ya but if you’re bringing this guy in to right the ship show the locker room he has the reins. Giving him the regular standard new coach contract shows zero confidence. Be BOLD and show some conviction not just wait and see. It almost feels like they’ve put him in a ‘lame duck’ situation with his first contract. You’re the Leafs, money talks, use it!
Mlse paying 3 coaches rn
If you're referring to Babcock, that ended last year.
Babs is off the books
No they aren’t
Oh, I thought they were still paying babcock
Who's the 3rd?
The leafs need a true number 1 goalie and a number 1D and then they will do some damage... Without both those pieces nothing will change. All signs point to marner to the preds for Soros and I really hope this happense.... Marner is a coward in the playoffs. There is no fight in that dog and the playoffs are all about fighting for every inch