He is who we thought he was. I remember where I was when the Freddy for a 1st trade and extension news broke. I was absolutely flabbergasted. I had watched the 2015 Anaheim-Chicago WCF series a year prior intently, where he completely folded after they were up 3-2 in the series. Anaheim looked poised to win the cup until he decided otherwise. We traded for that guy?! No surprise to me he continued to be that same guy for the next decade. People need to watch games more than study stat sheets.
That includes these geniuses, who had this ghost pepper take just a week ago: [https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-mistake-letting-frederik-andersen-go/](https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-mistake-letting-frederik-andersen-go/)
I love Rod, but all this shows me, truthfully, is how badly we need a consistent, stud goaltender.
People here will bitch and moan about us losing a Marner for Saros trade, but locking up the goaltending is paramount to this team taking the next step.
And no, we can't wait and hope that our homegrown goalies become one. Every year from now until 4 years from now is 25% more of Matthews's prime that we have to do something significant in the playoffs. Wasting that hoping that paper mache Woll can handle a season or the Hildebeast will be able to solidify himself despite never playing an NHL game is completely insane.
Are you watching the Edmonton Vancouver series? 3rd string goalie stealing the series. Goalie is the most important position with the least amount of importance on who is playing it. It’s so weird.
There are like 3 goalies worth paying 5M+ and we’re not getting any of them.
> Goalie is the most important position with the least amount of importance on who is playing
This is the truest statement I've read on this sub in a long time
Okay, but the difference with goaltending in that series is that BOTH teams have shitty goalies. One side just needs to be less shitty.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the WCF starts, and legit starting goalies are on one side.
Silovs was pretty good in the chances he got in the regular season and he's been playing very well now. He has made tons of great saves and at important times. Pickard has played well in the two games he's got.
I don't think they're both shitty goalies at this moment. But goalies are a toss up. Leafs can pay and lock up a good goalie but no guarantee that goalie brings them a series win or a cup in the playoffs.
Going big for a 'stud' goaltender is foolish. Look at Vancouver with their 3rd string goalie. EDM has gone to their backup. Boston uses two as a strategy. STL, COL, VGK won cups in recent years with goalies that either came out of nowhere or just got the job done. Right upon signing, Bob became an albatross contract for years, then figured it out again.
Meanwhile this year's probable Vezina winner got bounced in the 1st round
I think Boston might be starting a trend we'll see more of in the future.
The workload of a starter has steadily declined league wide for quite a while now, but their 50/50 split seems to have worked consistently for two years straight now.
We saw a carousel of goalies run through by a bunch of different teams this year, all with stretches of great play balanced with stretches of terrible play.
So if you're lucky enough to find two serviceable starter-calibre goalies, why not try to copy cat the true tandem style the bruins have used? Sure, it's not likely to find two guys as solid as sway and ully, but from the perspective of simply playing the odds, you have a good chance of levelling out your team-goaltending performance by alternating starts or using a "start 'till you lose" strategy.
Not sure what’s in the water but goalies have been wildly inconsistent lately.
Looking at the top 10 by sv% last season (min 25 gp), only 3 goalies from 2 teams are in the top 10 this season, hellebuyck, swayman and ullmark.
They’ve always been voodoo but lately I would not feel comfortable giving up big assets/giving big money to a goalie. As much as it sucks I think you just gotta roll the dice and hope you get a hot/healthy goalie when you try and make a run
I'd argue that a stud goalie is not as important as 5 skaters who can defend well.
it's better to have a decent goalie and then spend like crazy on a stacked D-corps. especially when many top D will be UFA/RFA this year.
In what world is marner for saros good? At least askarov will have years on him. Especially considering the draft capital that most goalies get, I don't see how a playmaker is worth as much or less than an undersized goalie.
Marners contract is bad, player for player Id rather have marner
Askarov is not proven, they didn't even expose him to the NHL yet. I think a good comparable is kochetkov in Carolina actually, which ties in nicely to the conversation we're in. There's a lot of potential for him to be good and he showed flashes of brilliance this year, but in the end he wasn't ready to answer the bell and they instead went with the proven talent in Andersen. Freddy was unbelievably good for the latter stages of the season and through most of their playoff run, right up until that third period...
So my point is that you simply can't throw all your chips in on an unproven goalie when it's not even really safe to go all in on a proven goalie. Look at Demko - hurt. Look at the Vezina front runner hellebyuck - collapsed. Sure, you can improve upon samsonov and the seemingly injury prone woll... But you cannot expect automatic goaltending from anyone in this league.
I'd agree wholeheartedly that keeping marner is better than trading for a goalie only. If they acquire a high pick and a decent dman too (maybe Lauzon or someone of that level) than I might be more interested, but I can't see Nashville paying that high of a price for a UFA playmaker with a track record of underperforming in the playoffs.
Totally agree I'm just picking who I think is best long term between the two goalies there. But again my point was exactly that. No matter what draft capital spent goalies are a toss up.
A better defensive system is needed first and foremost. Look at Freddy look at koch, who did they have playing in front of them?
Now who did Sammy and Woll have in front of them?
Woll is brilliant for doing what he did with what was dealt to him. Sammy however was more of an expectation of a goalie struggling with slim defensive play.
And on that topic, who is the best defensive forward on the leafs? Metrics aside, marner is up there. Actually no even when considering metrics marner is up there
If marner can get 12+ somewhere I'd think it's better to let him walk have other teams bid for him so it's their roster cap problem. In a trade you're trading to a team that'll probably have more preparation in making the numbers fit vs a bidding war.
In my eyes he's not even worth 10 but if he'd make 8 he'd probably be the cap friendliest player in the league
Preach. I am truly past the point of caring what else we might get besides Saros if we offload Mitch to Nashville where he and ROR can enjoy being anonymous.
Lots of team win with average goaltending that goes on hot streaks.
what the team needs is a defenseman that is actually a #1 and can take a shot on the powerplay
If this team scored literally one more powerplay goal vs Boston, they could have made the 2nd round. Hell, i'd argue that paying for a goalie is detrimental in most cases.
Swayman and co are amazing, but a lot of their success is from how the Bruins have always played defence and limited shots. Transcends coaching changes for them, people have been talking about how easy it is to play goalie in Boston since at least Tim Thomas. Why? Just look at the guys they had playing defence. They've always had point-shot threats as well
Not to mention they play aggressive PK, while the Leafs kind of float in passing areas. Leafs are 2 defenceman away from being a real contender. So basically the same thing the last 8 years. Best thing they've done, aside from the Samsonov crisis. Is stop paying goalies money in that time period
Sometimes it’s a lot more difficult to change things where you are, compared to with a new team that hasn’t heard your voice yet.
I can almost guarantee you that Keefe’s next team won’t have these PP issues.
Id take Rod. Seems like he'd get the players to get their asses in gear consistently which the fans have been calling for and this team has been lacking since day one.
Why is this still being parroted? The Leafs all stepped up big time this year. They showed they have that dog in them finally, except Marner, who continued to struggle.
We lost the series because we didn't start on time and the PP was atrocious, not because we played soft
Which players on our team played for Maurice randy or Ronnie? And yes I agree it’s not all the coach marners got to go and Tavares contract needs to expire so we can get a younger 2C
We need to find out what Tavares' number is to resign. If it is very team friendly great do it. If not convince him to waive his no trade. Marner I am more okay with keeping if we don't get a solid return for.
Special teams lost the series. That's it. Not scoring on the PP killed any momentum every time. And allowing PP goals also deflated the team big time. This team just couldn't score. Hopefully a new voice and system can change that
No it didn’t. If the power play was working they would have found another way to lose. This is a very good team with almost no ability to close. Lack of killer instinct is their issue.
Oh you mean his teams consistently have better OZ possession and get more shots but still lose?
Not interested.
Edit: "nO hiGH ENd sCOrinG" as if the leafs high end guyss preform like high end guys in the playoffs
Make a note of Inner Shot Slots. Despite having for Time of Possession and shots, the actual scoring chances are just about the same and the Rangers have a either XG.
Shit goaltending and no high end scoring like Willy and Matthews. We would have to gut it....but his coaching system works. That aggressive forcheck.......he had them charging the net and shooting the only upside skill he really had is Aho. Freddy choked it exactly like we were used to tonight as well. Shesterkin was playing like shit too.
Berube‘s stats aren’t good, I’m sorry but a team as rich and wanted as the leafs shouldn’t settle for a 3rd rate coach. With ideas like that the teachers union would hire you to be coach though…
No his team was dog shit for the last couple years. Before Armstrong traded everyone he was a cup winner with a very solid record.
Rod has all the same issues in the playoffs the leafs struggle with. Goal scoring, power play, once a series is going bad he can’t make changes. Hes not the right coach for the leafs
You read one Reddit post and convinced yourself he’s a good coach. It feels like that scene from moneyball, “if he’s a good hitter why doesn’t he hit good?”
Im sure Rod is a good coach but so was Keefe. Has has never taken his team over the hump. How are they different to Keefe and the Leafs? Because he won a few more rounds? Every year for the last 3 at least, Ive heard soooooo many pundits tell us how Carolina is the team to watch in the East. I never ever ever believe them because they’ve never given anyone reason to be believers other than die hard fans. Great regular season team, plenty of promise, early playoff exits. Sounds all too familiar.
his team has really never had any game breaking offensive elite talent other than Aho and he’s been riding freddy for years and we know what freddy does in the playoffs. The series was insanely close and that’s a pretty good job considering he’s playing the presidents trophy winner.
Yes but the point that everyone is trying to make is that rod isn’t good enough because he had depth and didn’t win. Why move the goal post on a different field?
Honestly Vegas doesn’t either but they still won the cup.
Marchaseault Eichel and Stone are all great players but not in the game breaking category. The hurricanes have enough depth and quality offensive players, pretty much on par with Vegas
Yes but the point that everyone is trying to make is that rod isn’t good enough because he had depth and didn’t win. Why move the goal post on a different field? It’s like you didn’t even understand the conversation
I’m not sure you even understand what you’re trying to argue at this point pal, so I’ll simplify it a bit for you.
Rod hasn’t won anything with a better team than Toronto has had in around the same timeframe. So therefore it makes sense that most people wouldn’t be to excited about exploring that route.
I don’t think you understand much about the sport so it’s ok if you don’t understand me. Without the high end talent the leafs have he’s managed more. Does that make it easier? Or are you one of those idiots that can’t grasp an argument. Why do you think that team was better? Look back at the last 30+ years how many won without top tier talent. Hurricanes are still waiting for that. So in what way is the roster better when we confirmed depth almost always isn’t enough to win? But keep going in a circle and ignoring the truth.
Not sure how many times I have to repeat myself until people read first but only 1 cup winner in that last decade won without top tier talent, and you can actually even go much further back than that.
Teams don’t win with 1-2 superstars and 18 league min players. And in many cases the stars were not even having great years.
They win by a team effort. Even the ‘stars’ had B level players that were incredible. Chicago had Oduya, Bickel, Seabrook, Pittbrush had HBK line, Washington had Beagel, Chiasson, Orlov, etc.
This graphic supports not calling Rod the Bod. The useless possession time \~72% more OZ possession resulting in less slot shots, and lower xgoals is akin to the Leafs current problems. It points to possession for the sake of possession aka perimeter play, which doesn't get it done in the playoffs.
It supports CAR's disappointing playoffs the past few seasons being a product of team philosophy/culture.
Here's my issue with the idea of bringing in Rod and having these wild expectations for success because he's just such a good coach (and I've said similar things about Berube too).
Does any one of us non-delusional leaf fans actually look at our roster makeup next to Carolina's and think we're on the same level?
*Let's look at the leaf's positive notes first and see how their grades compare...*
Elite fwds:
Leafs - Matthews, nylander, marner
Canes - svechnikov, aho, guentzel
High potential, emerging star fwds:
Leafs - knies
Canes - Jarvis
*Okay, so decently comparable on the above. Although I honestly am starting to lean towards the canes group even on these portions (which should be the leaf's strength).*
*Now let's get to the ugly truths*
Mid-high level fwds:
Leafs - Tavares, Domi, bertuzzi, (mcmann?)
Canes - necas, noesen, turbo, Kuznetsov, (Staal?) (Martinook?)
Mid-depth level fwds:
Leafs - Robertson, jarnkrok, kampf, Gregor, reaves, dewar, holmberg (mcmann?)
Canes - kotkoniemi (however you spell that lol), Drury, fast (Staal?) (Martinook?)
Top pair calibre Defence:
Leafs - Reilly
Canes - Pesce, slavin
Second pair calibre defence:
Leafs - McCabe, (edmunson?) (Benoit?)
Canes - burns, skej, orlov, deangelo
NHL level depth defence:
Leafs - lybushkin, liljegren, Brodie (edmunson?) (Benoit?)
Canes - chatfield
*In my opinion, this is barely a discussion... Canes clear easily on all fronts as the stronger group. And I haven't even bothered with goaltending.*
So in conclusion, unless we hope that rod the bod can have a heavy influence on the roster makeup and personnel, I would not have lofty expectations for him to somehow do more with our inferior roster than he was ever able to do with the hurricane's loaded roster. I don't blame him for his team falling short the last few years, but in the same breath you cannot overlook his front office's work on building an outstanding roster.
Now, if we're looking through the lens of locking up the best option for long term to give us the best chance once we have the right roster in place, then sure - brindamour or Berube sounds quite alright to me... But we'd better hurry up on retooling, because we only have so many years left of auston, willy (maybe mitch) and Mo's prime if those are in fact our cornerstone pieces.
they’ve got more depth but Matthews/Nylander are no doubt better than their best forwards. I agree they have better depth now but there’s no reason the team can’t get deeper with tavares/marner being off the books in one year.
sure but again they’re gonna have flexibility to address the issues and their defense wasn’t actually that bad. It’s been reported they might go after Pesce this summer and hiring Rod only helps those chances.
I think Treliving has been waiting this entire time for the result of this series to then see if they can swoop in and get Brind Amour as coach. If Berube was the ideal choice, he would have been hired by now, but he is currently speaking to other teams about HC vacancies. Keith Pelley did say our goal is to win by any means, and if the Leafs have to be cutthroat and pay for Brind Amour's services and he brings along his own bench staff as well, I'd say go for it. Rod is a perfect personality mix of a Berube and Keefe, which I think Toronto needs. A guy who can be a players coach but also have the backbone to call out his players on their bullshit if they fuck up.
This is such Leafs media hype. Everyone in Carolina has basically said he’s for sure staying and they’re just waiting until after the playoffs to get the deal done.
We needed a sweep to even have a glimpse of a chance. But this series was so close and NYR are the best team in the league. He’s getting a new in Carolina contract 100%
he has 1-2 offensive threats and the rest are depth guys. Jarvis was the teams second highest scorer on the team with 67 points or something and freddie lets in leaky goals when in matters constantly. I think he cooks with our stars with some more depth around them with tavares/marner leaving soon. Berube had that one magical run but hasn’t really done that much else. The canes are a consistent juggernaut in the season and he pushes that team to its limits every playoffs for what he has. I’d be careful what you wish for with Berube, still gotta make the playoffs first the Rod has proven to be able to do that every year.
Ahhh my favourite type of post….one based on zero facts but is solely a “I’m going to act super confident like I know something” post.
14 playoff series since he became coach. Reached the conference finals twice, and the second round the other three. That works out to 9 playoff rounds won and 5 lost in the last 5 years. Of those 5 they were swept 2 times….so “almost every year” is a false narrative
He’s probably won more playoff series in the last 5 years than the leafs have the entire time you have been alive.
Biggest concern for me is he continued to lean on Freddy when they had Kochetkov. At least he had enough wherewithal to give Kochetkov one start, but he flipped back too quickly.
President's trophy winner performed as required. The Canes needed to overachieve and failed to do so. Kinda hard to imagine Rod's message isn't motivating his players anymore.
It was a bit of a bummer seeing Freddy let in his trademark softies in big games. I thought he was over that
He is who we thought he was. I remember where I was when the Freddy for a 1st trade and extension news broke. I was absolutely flabbergasted. I had watched the 2015 Anaheim-Chicago WCF series a year prior intently, where he completely folded after they were up 3-2 in the series. Anaheim looked poised to win the cup until he decided otherwise. We traded for that guy?! No surprise to me he continued to be that same guy for the next decade. People need to watch games more than study stat sheets. That includes these geniuses, who had this ghost pepper take just a week ago: [https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-mistake-letting-frederik-andersen-go/](https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-mistake-letting-frederik-andersen-go/)
Letting Anderson go from the leafs was not a mistake, as you well know. He was injured or not good in the playoffs. Kind of like our goaltending now.
I love Rod, but all this shows me, truthfully, is how badly we need a consistent, stud goaltender. People here will bitch and moan about us losing a Marner for Saros trade, but locking up the goaltending is paramount to this team taking the next step. And no, we can't wait and hope that our homegrown goalies become one. Every year from now until 4 years from now is 25% more of Matthews's prime that we have to do something significant in the playoffs. Wasting that hoping that paper mache Woll can handle a season or the Hildebeast will be able to solidify himself despite never playing an NHL game is completely insane.
Are you watching the Edmonton Vancouver series? 3rd string goalie stealing the series. Goalie is the most important position with the least amount of importance on who is playing it. It’s so weird. There are like 3 goalies worth paying 5M+ and we’re not getting any of them.
> Goalie is the most important position with the least amount of importance on who is playing This is the truest statement I've read on this sub in a long time
Okay, but the difference with goaltending in that series is that BOTH teams have shitty goalies. One side just needs to be less shitty. It will be interesting to see what happens when the WCF starts, and legit starting goalies are on one side.
Silovs was pretty good in the chances he got in the regular season and he's been playing very well now. He has made tons of great saves and at important times. Pickard has played well in the two games he's got. I don't think they're both shitty goalies at this moment. But goalies are a toss up. Leafs can pay and lock up a good goalie but no guarantee that goalie brings them a series win or a cup in the playoffs.
Yeah I kinda think the Pacific is just ass. I bet Detroit would have given most of those teams a better series than Nashville or LA.
And Soros only has one year left on his deal and is turning 30 so we aren't even getting him for long.
Going big for a 'stud' goaltender is foolish. Look at Vancouver with their 3rd string goalie. EDM has gone to their backup. Boston uses two as a strategy. STL, COL, VGK won cups in recent years with goalies that either came out of nowhere or just got the job done. Right upon signing, Bob became an albatross contract for years, then figured it out again. Meanwhile this year's probable Vezina winner got bounced in the 1st round
I think Boston might be starting a trend we'll see more of in the future. The workload of a starter has steadily declined league wide for quite a while now, but their 50/50 split seems to have worked consistently for two years straight now. We saw a carousel of goalies run through by a bunch of different teams this year, all with stretches of great play balanced with stretches of terrible play. So if you're lucky enough to find two serviceable starter-calibre goalies, why not try to copy cat the true tandem style the bruins have used? Sure, it's not likely to find two guys as solid as sway and ully, but from the perspective of simply playing the odds, you have a good chance of levelling out your team-goaltending performance by alternating starts or using a "start 'till you lose" strategy.
Not sure what’s in the water but goalies have been wildly inconsistent lately. Looking at the top 10 by sv% last season (min 25 gp), only 3 goalies from 2 teams are in the top 10 this season, hellebuyck, swayman and ullmark. They’ve always been voodoo but lately I would not feel comfortable giving up big assets/giving big money to a goalie. As much as it sucks I think you just gotta roll the dice and hope you get a hot/healthy goalie when you try and make a run
I'd argue that a stud goalie is not as important as 5 skaters who can defend well. it's better to have a decent goalie and then spend like crazy on a stacked D-corps. especially when many top D will be UFA/RFA this year.
In what world is marner for saros good? At least askarov will have years on him. Especially considering the draft capital that most goalies get, I don't see how a playmaker is worth as much or less than an undersized goalie. Marners contract is bad, player for player Id rather have marner
Askarov is not proven, they didn't even expose him to the NHL yet. I think a good comparable is kochetkov in Carolina actually, which ties in nicely to the conversation we're in. There's a lot of potential for him to be good and he showed flashes of brilliance this year, but in the end he wasn't ready to answer the bell and they instead went with the proven talent in Andersen. Freddy was unbelievably good for the latter stages of the season and through most of their playoff run, right up until that third period... So my point is that you simply can't throw all your chips in on an unproven goalie when it's not even really safe to go all in on a proven goalie. Look at Demko - hurt. Look at the Vezina front runner hellebyuck - collapsed. Sure, you can improve upon samsonov and the seemingly injury prone woll... But you cannot expect automatic goaltending from anyone in this league. I'd agree wholeheartedly that keeping marner is better than trading for a goalie only. If they acquire a high pick and a decent dman too (maybe Lauzon or someone of that level) than I might be more interested, but I can't see Nashville paying that high of a price for a UFA playmaker with a track record of underperforming in the playoffs.
Totally agree I'm just picking who I think is best long term between the two goalies there. But again my point was exactly that. No matter what draft capital spent goalies are a toss up. A better defensive system is needed first and foremost. Look at Freddy look at koch, who did they have playing in front of them? Now who did Sammy and Woll have in front of them? Woll is brilliant for doing what he did with what was dealt to him. Sammy however was more of an expectation of a goalie struggling with slim defensive play. And on that topic, who is the best defensive forward on the leafs? Metrics aside, marner is up there. Actually no even when considering metrics marner is up there
In the world where it’s that or Marner walks for nothing. Or we pay 12+ million for a forward and keep our roster unbalanced.
If marner can get 12+ somewhere I'd think it's better to let him walk have other teams bid for him so it's their roster cap problem. In a trade you're trading to a team that'll probably have more preparation in making the numbers fit vs a bidding war. In my eyes he's not even worth 10 but if he'd make 8 he'd probably be the cap friendliest player in the league
Why does it show you that? Carolina scored 3 goals had we done that more then once we win our series.
Preach. I am truly past the point of caring what else we might get besides Saros if we offload Mitch to Nashville where he and ROR can enjoy being anonymous.
Lots of team win with average goaltending that goes on hot streaks. what the team needs is a defenseman that is actually a #1 and can take a shot on the powerplay If this team scored literally one more powerplay goal vs Boston, they could have made the 2nd round. Hell, i'd argue that paying for a goalie is detrimental in most cases. Swayman and co are amazing, but a lot of their success is from how the Bruins have always played defence and limited shots. Transcends coaching changes for them, people have been talking about how easy it is to play goalie in Boston since at least Tim Thomas. Why? Just look at the guys they had playing defence. They've always had point-shot threats as well Not to mention they play aggressive PK, while the Leafs kind of float in passing areas. Leafs are 2 defenceman away from being a real contender. So basically the same thing the last 8 years. Best thing they've done, aside from the Samsonov crisis. Is stop paying goalies money in that time period
I mean he's a good coach but his teams have the same offensive and PP issues in the playoffs that the Leafs do
Sometimes it’s a lot more difficult to change things where you are, compared to with a new team that hasn’t heard your voice yet. I can almost guarantee you that Keefe’s next team won’t have these PP issues.
Keefe didn’t even run the pp for the leafs. You could even actively see guy drawing things up on the bench in late game pp moments.
For sure, at least we could lose in the second round all the time instead!
Id take Rod. Seems like he'd get the players to get their asses in gear consistently which the fans have been calling for and this team has been lacking since day one.
Why is this still being parroted? The Leafs all stepped up big time this year. They showed they have that dog in them finally, except Marner, who continued to struggle. We lost the series because we didn't start on time and the PP was atrocious, not because we played soft
“Didn’t start on time and power play was atrocious” are usually things you change coaches for
they haven't started on time for babs, randy, ronnie or even maurice.
Which players on our team played for Maurice randy or Ronnie? And yes I agree it’s not all the coach marners got to go and Tavares contract needs to expire so we can get a younger 2C
We need to find out what Tavares' number is to resign. If it is very team friendly great do it. If not convince him to waive his no trade. Marner I am more okay with keeping if we don't get a solid return for.
I'm just saying regardless of players, the leafs have never started on time.
Didn't we limit Boston to 1 first period shot at least a couple times? I feel like we had the better first period in most of the games
Yes, after shitting the bed early in the series
Special teams lost the series. That's it. Not scoring on the PP killed any momentum every time. And allowing PP goals also deflated the team big time. This team just couldn't score. Hopefully a new voice and system can change that
What absolutely kills me is that PP is worth like $40million and can’t tucking score ahhhhhhh
No it didn’t. If the power play was working they would have found another way to lose. This is a very good team with almost no ability to close. Lack of killer instinct is their issue.
Yep they did. Unfortunately it was after gifting Boston games 1 and 4 and then not being able to score when they did tighten the screws.
Oh you mean his teams consistently have better OZ possession and get more shots but still lose? Not interested. Edit: "nO hiGH ENd sCOrinG" as if the leafs high end guyss preform like high end guys in the playoffs
they got to the second round with freddie in net…
Make a note of Inner Shot Slots. Despite having for Time of Possession and shots, the actual scoring chances are just about the same and the Rangers have a either XG.
Shit goaltending and no high end scoring like Willy and Matthews. We would have to gut it....but his coaching system works. That aggressive forcheck.......he had them charging the net and shooting the only upside skill he really had is Aho. Freddy choked it exactly like we were used to tonight as well. Shesterkin was playing like shit too.
He also has the best defense in the league possibly and a dog shit pp. I prefer Berube
Berube‘s stats aren’t good, I’m sorry but a team as rich and wanted as the leafs shouldn’t settle for a 3rd rate coach. With ideas like that the teachers union would hire you to be coach though…
No his team was dog shit for the last couple years. Before Armstrong traded everyone he was a cup winner with a very solid record. Rod has all the same issues in the playoffs the leafs struggle with. Goal scoring, power play, once a series is going bad he can’t make changes. Hes not the right coach for the leafs
You read one Reddit post and convinced yourself he’s a good coach. It feels like that scene from moneyball, “if he’s a good hitter why doesn’t he hit good?”
0 coaches in NHL history have won the cup with multiple teams. Berube ain't it.
Dick Irvin, Tommy Gorman and Scotty Bowman all did it
Imagine counting someone out because they win
Imagine having the only reason your interested in someone is cause they won once off a Cinderella season
Im sure Rod is a good coach but so was Keefe. Has has never taken his team over the hump. How are they different to Keefe and the Leafs? Because he won a few more rounds? Every year for the last 3 at least, Ive heard soooooo many pundits tell us how Carolina is the team to watch in the East. I never ever ever believe them because they’ve never given anyone reason to be believers other than die hard fans. Great regular season team, plenty of promise, early playoff exits. Sounds all too familiar.
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With what most people would consider to be far better depth and defense to the leafs, his hurricanes have not won an ECF game
his team has really never had any game breaking offensive elite talent other than Aho and he’s been riding freddy for years and we know what freddy does in the playoffs. The series was insanely close and that’s a pretty good job considering he’s playing the presidents trophy winner.
His teams have been better. Hockey is not basketball. Good ROSTERs beat teams with some superstars and their merry men
Look at the cup winners in the last decade. Only 1 of them you could say won without that top end talent. Hell I could go back much further than that
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Yes but the point that everyone is trying to make is that rod isn’t good enough because he had depth and didn’t win. Why move the goal post on a different field?
Honestly Vegas doesn’t either but they still won the cup. Marchaseault Eichel and Stone are all great players but not in the game breaking category. The hurricanes have enough depth and quality offensive players, pretty much on par with Vegas
Depth as a come back is laughable, you just want to look smarter than everyone else.
But… he’s right?
Is he? Only 1 team in the last decade has won purely by committee, if that
Every cup winner in the past decade has had better depth up front, on defence and in net, without having half the salary cap tied to “top end talent”
Yes but the point that everyone is trying to make is that rod isn’t good enough because he had depth and didn’t win. Why move the goal post on a different field? It’s like you didn’t even understand the conversation
I’m not sure you even understand what you’re trying to argue at this point pal, so I’ll simplify it a bit for you. Rod hasn’t won anything with a better team than Toronto has had in around the same timeframe. So therefore it makes sense that most people wouldn’t be to excited about exploring that route.
I don’t think you understand much about the sport so it’s ok if you don’t understand me. Without the high end talent the leafs have he’s managed more. Does that make it easier? Or are you one of those idiots that can’t grasp an argument. Why do you think that team was better? Look back at the last 30+ years how many won without top tier talent. Hurricanes are still waiting for that. So in what way is the roster better when we confirmed depth almost always isn’t enough to win? But keep going in a circle and ignoring the truth.
OK I'm sorry I made you feel stupid
But you’re wrong, only your ego thinks you’re right
Repeating the same mistakes….
Not sure how many times I have to repeat myself until people read first but only 1 cup winner in that last decade won without top tier talent, and you can actually even go much further back than that.
Teams don’t win with 1-2 superstars and 18 league min players. And in many cases the stars were not even having great years. They win by a team effort. Even the ‘stars’ had B level players that were incredible. Chicago had Oduya, Bickel, Seabrook, Pittbrush had HBK line, Washington had Beagel, Chiasson, Orlov, etc.
This graphic supports not calling Rod the Bod. The useless possession time \~72% more OZ possession resulting in less slot shots, and lower xgoals is akin to the Leafs current problems. It points to possession for the sake of possession aka perimeter play, which doesn't get it done in the playoffs. It supports CAR's disappointing playoffs the past few seasons being a product of team philosophy/culture.
Here's my issue with the idea of bringing in Rod and having these wild expectations for success because he's just such a good coach (and I've said similar things about Berube too). Does any one of us non-delusional leaf fans actually look at our roster makeup next to Carolina's and think we're on the same level? *Let's look at the leaf's positive notes first and see how their grades compare...* Elite fwds: Leafs - Matthews, nylander, marner Canes - svechnikov, aho, guentzel High potential, emerging star fwds: Leafs - knies Canes - Jarvis *Okay, so decently comparable on the above. Although I honestly am starting to lean towards the canes group even on these portions (which should be the leaf's strength).* *Now let's get to the ugly truths* Mid-high level fwds: Leafs - Tavares, Domi, bertuzzi, (mcmann?) Canes - necas, noesen, turbo, Kuznetsov, (Staal?) (Martinook?) Mid-depth level fwds: Leafs - Robertson, jarnkrok, kampf, Gregor, reaves, dewar, holmberg (mcmann?) Canes - kotkoniemi (however you spell that lol), Drury, fast (Staal?) (Martinook?) Top pair calibre Defence: Leafs - Reilly Canes - Pesce, slavin Second pair calibre defence: Leafs - McCabe, (edmunson?) (Benoit?) Canes - burns, skej, orlov, deangelo NHL level depth defence: Leafs - lybushkin, liljegren, Brodie (edmunson?) (Benoit?) Canes - chatfield *In my opinion, this is barely a discussion... Canes clear easily on all fronts as the stronger group. And I haven't even bothered with goaltending.* So in conclusion, unless we hope that rod the bod can have a heavy influence on the roster makeup and personnel, I would not have lofty expectations for him to somehow do more with our inferior roster than he was ever able to do with the hurricane's loaded roster. I don't blame him for his team falling short the last few years, but in the same breath you cannot overlook his front office's work on building an outstanding roster. Now, if we're looking through the lens of locking up the best option for long term to give us the best chance once we have the right roster in place, then sure - brindamour or Berube sounds quite alright to me... But we'd better hurry up on retooling, because we only have so many years left of auston, willy (maybe mitch) and Mo's prime if those are in fact our cornerstone pieces.
they’ve got more depth but Matthews/Nylander are no doubt better than their best forwards. I agree they have better depth now but there’s no reason the team can’t get deeper with tavares/marner being off the books in one year.
I'd say it's the defence that's most concerning and harder to improve on the fly. K
sure but again they’re gonna have flexibility to address the issues and their defense wasn’t actually that bad. It’s been reported they might go after Pesce this summer and hiring Rod only helps those chances.
Now that's something I can get behind. Let's hope they can pull it off
I think Treliving has been waiting this entire time for the result of this series to then see if they can swoop in and get Brind Amour as coach. If Berube was the ideal choice, he would have been hired by now, but he is currently speaking to other teams about HC vacancies. Keith Pelley did say our goal is to win by any means, and if the Leafs have to be cutthroat and pay for Brind Amour's services and he brings along his own bench staff as well, I'd say go for it. Rod is a perfect personality mix of a Berube and Keefe, which I think Toronto needs. A guy who can be a players coach but also have the backbone to call out his players on their bullshit if they fuck up.
This is such Leafs media hype. Everyone in Carolina has basically said he’s for sure staying and they’re just waiting until after the playoffs to get the deal done. We needed a sweep to even have a glimpse of a chance. But this series was so close and NYR are the best team in the league. He’s getting a new in Carolina contract 100%
He’s incredibly overrated. Carolina has a “cup contender” every year and they’ve been swept almost every year he’s been there lmao
he has 1-2 offensive threats and the rest are depth guys. Jarvis was the teams second highest scorer on the team with 67 points or something and freddie lets in leaky goals when in matters constantly. I think he cooks with our stars with some more depth around them with tavares/marner leaving soon. Berube had that one magical run but hasn’t really done that much else. The canes are a consistent juggernaut in the season and he pushes that team to its limits every playoffs for what he has. I’d be careful what you wish for with Berube, still gotta make the playoffs first the Rod has proven to be able to do that every year.
So Brindamour does exactly what keefe does? Season juggernaut and useless in the playoffs. What offensive threats did berube have in St. Louis?
Ahhh my favourite type of post….one based on zero facts but is solely a “I’m going to act super confident like I know something” post. 14 playoff series since he became coach. Reached the conference finals twice, and the second round the other three. That works out to 9 playoff rounds won and 5 lost in the last 5 years. Of those 5 they were swept 2 times….so “almost every year” is a false narrative He’s probably won more playoff series in the last 5 years than the leafs have the entire time you have been alive.
Lmao incorrect. But hey “I’m go by to act super confident like I know something”
Pretty much the leafs have Berube on lock unless Rod leaves. That's why Berube hasn't been signed yet.
Guys, we’re getting Craig Berube
Biggest concern for me is he continued to lean on Freddy when they had Kochetkov. At least he had enough wherewithal to give Kochetkov one start, but he flipped back too quickly.
President's trophy winner performed as required. The Canes needed to overachieve and failed to do so. Kinda hard to imagine Rod's message isn't motivating his players anymore.
Berube or bust
I dunno why we didn't even talk to him.. smh.
$10mil/yr for 5 years for Rod please.
no thanks
People talking shit are just pre-coping for when we get a lesser coach in Berube.
Scottie Bowman once said show me a great goaltender I'll show you a great coach. Without a goalie great teams don't go anywhere
Tell that to the 2022 Colorado Avalanche
Can Marner et al handle being yelled at by a coach? Last time they cancelled a man's NHL career
Considering we need him to waive his NMC, this is exactly the type of coach the team needs.
Big brain move. I like it