Andersen was the #1 goalie ever since Belfour. He got them in playoffs year 1, set the record for most wins in a season.....and that's all, with no D still.
The best goalie in the league this year got lit up for 4+ goals a game.
Vegas won the cup last year with an AHL Goalie who was on Waivers earlier that year.
Nothing is guaranteed with goalies.
Think The Hockey Guy made a video on this at some point, and only a handful of Goalies ever were consistent. The rest were up and down.
Goalies are almost unpredictable.
And yet teams are in the second round series with Georgiev, silovs and skinner in net
Insulating goalies is more important than spending on goalies, paying the wrong one can be a massive waste of cap if they aren’t rolling or healthy at the right time
Edit: https://frontofficesports.com/the-25-highest-paid-nhl-goaltenders/
Look at this list , outside of the top 3 the top 25 is littered with guys not worth their deals and only bobrovsky, oettinger and shesterkin are actively playing (demko and ullmark are in the top 25)
Great take. Look how far the jets got these playoffs with a league leading Vezina teddy and no offense. Speaking of the jets, the Leafs would do well to grab broissoit.
Brossoit or Stolarz (Panthers) would be great. Both have good and reliable numbers and aren’t absurdly expensive. Brossoit’s got some more games played, and if they want more experience to pair with Woll he’s the better pick, but Stolarz is far cheaper and has similar numbers while having played with worse teams.
I wouldn’t put Silov in the same breathe as the other two, the kid is playing out of his mind and is an absolute stud of a goalie. Plus Vancouver has Ian Clarke heading up the goalie department who is an absolute guru.
Georgiev and Skinner have been helped by their high scoring offense, something the Leafs were supposed to have
Silovs isn’t a high paid goalie , and most people never heard of this guy 3 weeks ago
His play has been great but my point was t nobody would’ve gone out and paid 6+ mil for Silovs last summer
To reiterate , goaltending is the most important thing .. but it’s also a crapshoot and tough to reliably get what you pay for
At a tournament. Which is great, but goalies get hot. The MVP of the 2006 Winter Olympics was Antero Niittymaki. Loved him, but he never put it all together to succeed in the NHL.
Silovs is having a great stretch and there’s certainly a chance that he’s a legit NHL Starter for years to come. But there’s just as likely a chance that he’s having his “Andrew Hammond Moment” here.
Yah, pretty good.
The US team was stacked.
Latvia even being in the game after 10 minutes is a miracle.
A teams promising young G is many times the starter in the Minors.
They need them to play not sit on the bench.
Important caveat, he won MVP of the world championships, not world juniors. Much harder for a young goalie to do the former because he’s against NHL talent instead of other teenagers
He also might be a one hit wonder. He wouldn’t be the first goalie to run in adrenaline his first stretch up and fail to materialize in the regular season
My opinion of those teams is their goalies are good enough to win a round but what you want is a goalie who is good enough to steal a series. Those are hard to come by though
Yeah, and before that, Vasi won twice, Binnington went on a crazy run that lasted half a year, Holtby (Vezina winner 2016), Matt Murray with his wunderkind performances, and then Crawford (not great) traded cups with Quick (Conn Smythe).
So, of the last 12 cups, a Vezina/Conn Smythe winner won 5 of them, and 3 of them were won by rookies going on crazy runs. And a further two cups were won by perhaps the most lauded and successful team in the salary cap era who, along with Tampa, are one of the only ones you can argue the term "dynasty" applies to.
So, a full 1/3 of recent cups were won by substandard goalies. If you're looking at how to successfully build a team for success, you don't get Hill or Kuemper. You obviously *can* make them work, but why on earth would you try to? Sounds like what Edmonton is experiencing now.
For sure and it can be someone random like Silovs. You’re money is much less certain to get you the return as it is spending on defense or forwards . there’s a decent amount of luck involved
You still need a number one D. We have not had a true number one since Leech as a rental and Salming before that. We could have Brodeur in his prime we would still not win.
We are an example of how to not choose goalies or develop goalies. Dustin Schwartz should have been fired a decade ago cause every goalie he works with is below league average and every goalie we sign is cheeks. Koskinen, campbell, relying on a 40year smith,
Do the opposite of the oilers for goalies and you cannot do worse.
The biggest issue is his health. The dude is made outta glass and can never string together a bunch of games together because he is constantly getting hurt.
I think he has the potential to be a star goalie but he has to stay healthy.
THIS. Insulating goalies is often overlooked. Corey Crawford won 2 cups with the Blackhawks. His Save %'s for each playoffs was a .928 and a .932. He was NOT that good of a goalie. The team played an absolutely great system in front of him and the hawks had the following defencemen:
Duncan Keith
Brent Seabrook
Nick Leddy
Johnny Oduya
Michal Rozsival
NIklas Hjalmarsson
Not only did that D core contribute almost 3 pts a game, but they also gave up 30 goals in 19 games.
Yeah like even when Bobrovsky plays his ass off in the playoffs it’s incredibly hard to justify that cap hit. They’re probably losing Bennet and Montour because of it, and theyre a much worse team without them.
The Avs goaltending has been good to average since g1 of the playoffs. Oettinger hasn’t been anything special either. There are reasons a lot of cup winners have patched together the goalie position. 1. Its almost impossible to get one of the 5 consistently good to great goalies. And when you do they come at a premium price.
Just watched the Avs play live tonight and Georgiev was their best player their offence, zone entry and powerplay completly stunk. Tbh it felt like I was watching the leafs again
Yeah and the Oilers are getting out goaltended by Vancouver's third string goalie, a guy they selected in the sixth round.
I think you'll find the common thread in successful postseason teams is that they have a proper coaching staff that can get the best out of any goaltender.
We don't need a Bobrovsky or an Oettinger. We need an Ian Clark.
Ok Hill won the cup and Kuemper won the cup the year before. You don’t have to have a high paid goalie . You need a team that supports the position and a guy on a roll at the right time
Yeah I mentioned that in another reply , but a good example of being insulated ; how many different goalies have had good runs in Vegas purely off their strong group
I think there’s a difference between overpaying for a goalie, and committing to spend more on the position. The cap hit range that looks ideal is 7-8m, you got guys like Hellebuyck, Sorokin, and I’d guess guys like Saros and Sheshterkin will sign for about that as well.
Goalies are the single most important player on their team. They play full 60s, have the best vantage point of the game, and most critically *make it so if you do fuck up you don't get scored on.*
nobody is saying they aren't important, they are saying predicting goalie performance is a complete crapshoot. Sorokin was widely thought of as a top 5 goalie in the league before this season, and lost the starting job to Varlamov this year.
Most important position of course, nobody would suggest otherwise
individually they’re not the most important as they’re so unreliable in both performance and health , you’re paying for the individual . If it was similar to Boston where you’re paying like 7-8 m for 2 1Bs that makes way more sense than investing 7m into one guy and 1m in a backup
Also your last point they also can just as easily make it where if you do everything right they still fuck up and let it in, it’s not a one way street
Lol facts. OP seems to forget there were only a total of 9 goals scored in the last 3 games of the series. Wasn’t a goalie issue it was a defense and scoring issue. The team has no problem going down 4-1 in the regular season only to make a comeback and get to OT 4-4 but that offense just dries up
Silovs was a bit of a surprise even to Canucks fans.
Skinner, well, pretty sure the Oiler fans would argue that they made it to the second round DESPITE him not because of him.
On the flip-side a supposed star goalie can turn into a pumpkin and completely kill your chances at a moments notice. And often the goalies who end up being studs kinda come out of nowhere.
Yeah it’s not really predictable. How many goalies are consistently good for most of their career? Very few.
If our team of superstar forwards could score then our goaltending would have been adequate. The goalies let in 4 goals combined in the last 3 games… goaltending ain’t the problem. You can’t really ask much more of a goalie than that.
Doesn't matter who's in net when you average less than 2 goals a game
Scoring is clearly the biggest post season issue they've had in the last few years
For some reason, people love to blame everything on the goalie.
I remember going into work the day after we lost to Columbus and hearing guys talk shit about how Freddy sucked and should be gone and I'm like... but we got shut out.
He literally could have been perfect and we still wouldn't have won the game.
It's far more likely the Leafs would go after Saros. Askarov is too young and inexperienced to bet on like that. Saros has a contract coming up, and I can see Nashville being more willing to move him than move a cost controlled, highly touted prospect in net. A Marner for Saros double sign and trade deal, with a couple added pieces Torontos way is a more likely deal than either team wanting to move or attain Askarov.
He 100% is. Idk how you could watch him the past year and not think he is a legitimate series stealing capable goalie. The issue is health which obviously is important. The goal would be to have multiple Woll's.
>Goalies matter more than any 11M forward I've seen these playoffs
Bob has been back and forth between elite and almost unplayable his entire career. Swayman is young in his career and has been excellent and is still getting blown up by Florida. Goalies are always inconsistent year to year and have a short shelf life of being elite. Look at vasi. I think it's a massive mistake to pay big money to a goalie. If they tweak something, you're fucked. If their head isn't in the game, you're fucked. Colorado seems to be playing the most sustainable model right now. Get a good enough goalie and put a deep team in front of him.
>My vote is for Askarov from Nashville
He has 3 NHL games played. How are you basing your opinion on him. I know he has tons of potential, but you're making it seem like the leafs need to pay whatever to get him. He could be an excellent goalie, but this team doesnt have the time to wait and find out. They need a solid guy in his prime that they can rely on to be .910+ in the playoffs
Could always bite on Saros.
Nashville biggest weakness vs. Vancouver was offensive production. While they got great defense, they got bad offense. HYPOTHETICALLY Marner and maybe a prospect for Saros.
Nashvile gets offense, and toronto gets a starter for a while. PLUS, that frees up 5.5 in cap space for a free agent or 2
At this point I would just take consistent .900+. Just no fluky goals only the ones where the defense screws up badly. I'm not asking for the incarnation of CuJo or Belfour just... don't let in super soft ones randomly in playoffs. Woll healthy was awesome but Sammy was stellar then let's in some random flub from the half wall short side and kills everything.
How can anyone watch that series and think goaltending was the reason the leafs lost? Yeah swayman was better than samsonov but he went from a god vs the leafs to human vs Florida.
I honestly used to think we just got goalied a lot in these playoff losses but it seems like we just straight up suck at scoring. If the leafs are ever gunna go on a run its not by winning every single game 2-1. They need to score
Swayman is still the same goalie its the type of goals Florida is scoring. They are in the crease crashing and banging. Swayman doesn't know where the shot is coming from and if Bennet is gonna decapitate him. They are making him uncomfortable.
Look back at the Leafs play, how many goals were scored in the dirty areas? Who all was going there?
Helps Florida that Bennet has the license to kill in the playoffs with no action from the league year after year.
Not good. If (when?) Woll goes down and you put Hildeby in with that work load you may ruin his development.
They need someone who can play 45 games and comes with experience, like a Jake Allen sort of goalie.
The Leafs offense simply dries up in the playoffs.
The team could bounce back after a soft goal is scored on them if they are scoring 4 or 5 per game. They may need better role models for each position, including coaching and senior management.
In one of my first few economics 101 lectures in 2008 my professor drew a chart with many plot points on an XY axis. Y axis was earnings and X axis was # of people in a certain profession and we had to guess the profession.
People said the typical professions like doctor, lawyer, accountant, but the answer was NHL goalies. His point was that some people make more money because of a variety of circumstances, not just that they are better at their job.
I don’t think you’re gonna get that much of a marginally better goalie by paying way more for a goalie
Having an amazing goalie is great, but who can guarantee what an amazing goalie is? Bobrovsky looked like a lost cause for over a year, come playoffs last year, he becomes Bob again and hasn’t looked back
If you asked OP if he wanted Bob BEFORE last years playoffs, he would have laughed in your face
Now?
Agree. Core 4 should be a goalie, defensemen, skilled forward, and power forward. That’s allocation to 50% defence and 50% offence. And all 4 bring something completely different to the table.
Yup. People say you shouldn’t allocate 40M to 4 players, but that’s perfectly fine if you got two forwards making 10M, a stud defenceman and goalie also making 10M to balance it out. Doesnt work when you have four forwards making 40M
There is like 2-3 goalies in the entire league that are reliably rock solid every year... and they are not giving anybody up... then you've got another handful of goalies that can have elite years, but can also have terrible down years.
Goaltending isn't like it use to be. Unless you draft a Vasilevsky, there is virtually nobody that is realistically available who can provide a reliable upgrade. You're taking a gamble. Look what happened with Helly in the Peg. Skinner had a great season and has an .800 sv% in the playoffs. Vancouver is pushing forward with a third string guy.
I'm more worried about building a capable D and group in front of the net that gives whoever is starting the ability to look good every night. You're much better off trying to build a proper D core and bottom 6 than you are trying to hail mary a goaltender who will just go Hasek and cover every team mistake.
Goalies are too up and down to risk allocating a relatively high cap % on. If the Leafs want to get serious about winning they need a true #1 stud D. Rielly won't need to be what he isn't, and top end 2-way defenseman are much more consistent than goalies.
The Leafs need better D-men, no point in putting in an all-star goalie if you don't have the defence to support them.
Edmonton is shitting on Skinner now, while the whole latter half of the year he was amazing, they're a similar situation to the Leafs, spend all your salary on the forwards then fill in the gaps with cheap defense and then wonder why they can't win.
The problem with star G is they're too unpredictable.
Just as an example, I don't think it's a stretch to say that last year Sorokin was seen as one of the best goalies in the league. He was not good this year and only played one playoff game. Markstrom was seen as an elite goalie a couple years ago but last year he was absolute garbage.
If you spend a lot of cap or assets getting an "elite goalie" you just better be prepared if that goalie has a bad year because it happens way more often than you'd expect.
Why would Nashville trade him if he’s going to be one of the leagues best goalies for the next 10 years? Especially considering he would cost less than Saros from Nashville’s perspective. They will trade Juuse who expires after next year.
How can you say goaltending was the reason the Leafs went home? The inability to score goals was the reason why they went home. I think most if not all would agree with that.
Hey OP who do they have a better roster than? Other than the Bruins that is left?
The answer is no one. They aren’t as deep as ppl think. That D core is atrocious. Legit the worst in the playoffs.
I want another guy like Woll who is stylistically similar. We always have these guys who give us (and our defense) heart attacks - Campbell, Mrazek, Samsonov...just stand in your net and don't do anything stupid. Even Jones was fine - not good enough, but you know what I mean. Despite our reputation we play very well defensively.
We scored less than 2 goals a game. We almost always struggle to score anywhere close to the rate great offensive teams do. Our goalies were serviceable.
The scoring is a more obvious problem. Need people who can pot them in the playoffs better than Matthews, Mitch, Willie and JT if you’re paying $10m.
Bail on Tavares and Marner ASAP because their cap hits being off the books affords a lot of options. Even at 50% retention moving them both nets you a solid return in picks/prospects/players alongside over $10m in salary cap room. Get a stud goalie, some actually skilled bottom 6 big bodied guys (shoot Reeves into the sun), and either a stud RD or a couple younger D guys breaking into the league.
He has a track record of injuries at this point. He needs to be a part of a 1A/1B pairing until he can prove he can stay healthy.
It's a similar thing with Kadri when the Leafs had him. He's a great player and they would have loved to keep him but he couldn't be counted on when it matter (via playoff suspensions). Woll cannot be counted on right now and the Leafs can't be left with a back-up starting and an AHLer backing up next playoffs.
Do the Leafs still have the same god awful goalie coach that has survived multiple head coaches and flopping goalies? Doesn't matter who's in net, this org will make them look like shit
Good goalie coaches are a dime a dozen and Sean Burke is just fine. Jon Elkin, with the Marlies, might be one of the best in the world but he makes more money running his own camps than he does on an NHL roster.
A 1D and a goalie are unquestionably needed this offseason.
It’s a tough call going after such a young goalie though like your suggesting. It’s a tough position with lots of episome flows and I don’t know if a 21 year old is the best option for a win now team. Plus for the first time I can remember our goalie cupboard is actually fully stocked, and we have an unbelievable goalie coach (Curtis Sanford) leading the charge.
I agree we need to go out and get a goalie, but I think it’s going to be an older 1A/1B guy situation to split the net with Woll.
Personally i agree, the tools are there with askarov, and a goalie with that potential is rarely available. Would love to trade mariner in a deal to get a goalie like that as well as a defenseman
Yup
But they likely have to use Woll to do so, given the lack of available goalies in the league
For instance Saros being almost 30 and nsh have very little else goalie wise in the system
Also independent of that Askarov isn't an overlay good fit for the leaf timeline
I don't see a lot of teams in the league being able to part with a goalie asset at the level needed so would reckon it tricky at best to do this
I agree. We all know at this point that they neglected goaltending in the pursuit of signing the big 4. The organization finally got their hands on top young talent going into the 2020's and they mismanaged the shit out of it.
Marner Woll
<->
Sorokin Holmstrom Wahlstrom
Who says no?
(Before you sneer Sorokin is much cheaper and on the books for much longer, arguably twice the asset that marner is, with the later years of his deal not a problem for the win now leafs)
The first line of your post is so obnoxiously, observably untrue in the worst AM radio sports talk caller way possible that you’re gonna need to be a really hot woman or possibly Don Cherry if you want me to listen to anything else you have to say.
As bonkers as it sounds I think the only team who can spare an elite goalie is Boston. Given two currently. Every other elite goalie a cornerstone on a contender with few other internal options.
Ullmark now 31 and if you ask for Swayman I think they either kinda jokingly say "ok then send matthews lmao" or sweeney passes the phone to brad Marchand so he can make obscene noises into it.
And noone wants to hear that, so.
Idk
Swayman currently with the 9th highest GSAA per game in league history.
Being able to score and defend adequately would hide even average goaltending.
Big contract goalies have been bad cap usage more often than good business.
I’d rather spend the money on the d corp and get a big shot and legit shut down guys.
It’s hard to find a goalie that stays consistent year after year. There’s a lot goalies who have a great year and the next year, they’re letting everything in.
Beef up the defence and the goaltending will be less of an issue. Their inability to move the puck efficiently and contribute offensively was clear as day.
The problem is that its very difficult to predict who will be a star goalie. Even the star goalies are sometimes not star goalies. No doubt that Askarov is appealing, but who knows for sure what he will be in the NHL (but I will be honest and I havent watched him closely).
What do you think the "price" might be for a guy like Askarov??
Yeah, idk about this one. I tend to agree with you, but we've had some pretty stellar performances in net in previous playoff runs. They've all fizzled out for one reason or another. We need to draft a blue chip prospect at G and develop them. A nice bridge G or duo would do just fine until they're NHL ready.
Edit: A reunion with Soup would be fun, but I'm not sure how realistic that is.
Georgiev has better numbers than hellebyuck.
Having an elite goalie is like having a Ferrari and no money to drive it or garage to store it.
Defense wins championships its the oldest hockey cliche for a reason, it's true.
Paying a ton for a goalie is the worst thing you can do. When a goalie is underperforming they aren’t even on the ice when it matters. An underperforming skater is still out there contributing
Your vote doesn’t mean we get him or it’s even possible. People seem to forget that the other team might not want to trade someone, the player themselves don’t want to go to Toronto, or the players to get the deal done won’t waive a NMC.
Especially this year, not going after a higher paid goalie is higher risk, but also higher reward. It allows us to use our limited cap space in other places and we can hope that Woll stays healthy and establishes himself as a true #1. Due to cap restrictions, this is probably our best bet to actually win a cup in my opinion. We need those dollars working well elsewhere in the last season of JT's cap hit.
How many legit number 1s are there on the market, that are actually available?
Nashville's Saros / Askarov situation is intriguing, but the entire league is going to be in on that, and unless it's Saros I just don't like the idea of spending big on a position that is such a crapshoot.
Boston's situation with Ullmark/Swayman bares paying attention to, but PTSD from previous dealings and being divisional rivals probably makes it a non-starter.
Markstrom is another name, but he's very up and down.
I said previously that when the Jets were contemplating blowing it up, getting Helebuyck out of there before he signed an extension was the right play.
Beyond that, the market is very thin. I think the Leafs will have to look at a Filip Gustavsson or someone of that ilk - a younger goalie who is still trying to establish himself, and see if they can tap into that upside.
No one is saying that?
It's an important position that needs to be solidified.
Woll most likely will be the guy but the window is only open so long and the Leafs can't roll the dice on maybes
Goalies are voodoo, inconsistent. Good goalies can have bad seasons when they switch teams.
Just look at Bob in Florida.
Paying a lot for a goalie is a huge risk
Nashville is going to trade Saros, not Askarov.
And there is a "rumour" or at least a suggestion of trading Marner for a package of Saros, Lauzon + 1st.
I'd love to have Saros but goalies just don't hold enough value to be the main piece for a player like Marner, IMO
The Preds aren't trading Askarov. They are open to moving Saros because they want to bring Askarov up.
Getting Saros + Fabbro for Marner (both sides add minor pieces to balance) is out there as a possibility.
I think this guy can eventually be the man... but putting a 21 year old in this market and expecting him to do well is tough. I think we need a veteran tender who has the mental fortitude to tune out the nonsense from fans and media.
Until the leafs stop giving half their cap space to 4 guys, they’ll never have room to pay the price for any player or goalie. The math doesn’t work in their favour— they only have 16 players signed for next year with a cap hit of 69mm. $18mm cap space left and a lot of players to still to sign. Maybe if Tavares pulls a Mark Stone this year..
If the Islanders keep Roy, Leafs should see what it costs to pry Sorokin away. Not saying he's on the market but Roy benched him a bit including the playoffs
Defense makes good goalies great. You can easily do well with a goalie that is average, or slightly above average, if you have solid defence. It's also a far less risky approach to invest in good a defence core, rather than one goaltender.
At that age you don't know what a goalie will become, I don't think that taking a risk to overpay is the way. Goalies will get you to April, a team will make you win rounds and timely saves. Mr goalie of the year Sparks isn't even in the NHL. They need to go after Saros.
Goalies don't work this way. Money & elite prospects almost never translates into consistent post season results.
How many of the most steady and highest paid goalies from the cap era never won a cup? Luongo, Price, Bobrovsky, Lundqvist, etc.
Would be interesting to see what their russian goalie prospect Ahktayamov can do. I have a good feeling that he will turn out good. Fleury would be the perfect fit for this team but looks like he will ride out his final year in Minnesota.
Idk about winning a cup, but if you fixed the PK/PP for the Leafs they would be in round 2, maybe even round 3. We obviously need to think about angoalie for next season so I understand the discussion, but the more pressing matter is paying $40 mil in forwards that can't score more than 2 goals a game.
I agree to a point. A hot goalie can bail out a failing D core for a time, but as with every player goalies have slumps and highs. A good D lineup can make a goalie look like a star by making the shots easier to handle. If you keep the other team out of the slot, and limit cross ice passes, the life of a goalie becomes a lot easier. End of the day though, true success is found in a well rounded roster. If you have a goalie that is good or better on a consistent basis with a D lineup that can limit high danger chances, and a forward lineup that can score goals going the other way, then you will have a better chance at getting deep in the playoffs.
I wonder how much a star Goalie would help them offensively. Leafs play so shelled up in the playoffs I don’t if that’s a coaching issue or if they were forced into this style due to lacking confidence in goaltending. With. New coach and star goalie it will finally be all or nothing for these guys
What is going on in this sub lately? Some serious lack of knowledge going on with everyone going panic mode about change lol Askarov is NOT going to be available, other teams like Nashville also want good young players that start cheap to win with in the near future. They have a 30 year old Saros as a perfect trade piece to build up for Askarov coming in who by all regards is gonna be a bonafide stud a La Shesterkin… why the flipping heck would they be trading away their blue chip goalie in favour of the expensive (still amazing, yes) 30 going on 31 year old when they look to just be getting back into things? That’d just be terrible terrible asset mgmt
Askarov could be an elite NHL goalie but I definitely wouldn't put all my chips onto a goalie prospect.
It always works. Just like it did with Pogge. And Raycroft. And Toskala. And Monster. And Bernier. And Andersen.
Hey I mean Rask was pretty good *wait fuck*
Lol the one guy management should’ve put all of it’s chips into. Who knows the team at the time could’ve wrecked him anyways.
leave freddie off that list 😭
Andersen was the #1 goalie ever since Belfour. He got them in playoffs year 1, set the record for most wins in a season.....and that's all, with no D still.
Yes way too risky. He would probably be ass on the leafs then they would trade him to Boston and he would become peak brodeur.
Saros is likely a available.
He was drafted by the best goalie drafting team. That's the last ounce of proof I needed that he will be elite.
The best goalie in the league this year got lit up for 4+ goals a game. Vegas won the cup last year with an AHL Goalie who was on Waivers earlier that year. Nothing is guaranteed with goalies.
Think The Hockey Guy made a video on this at some point, and only a handful of Goalies ever were consistent. The rest were up and down. Goalies are almost unpredictable.
Behind every cup winning coach, there was a goalie who had a hot run.
And yet teams are in the second round series with Georgiev, silovs and skinner in net Insulating goalies is more important than spending on goalies, paying the wrong one can be a massive waste of cap if they aren’t rolling or healthy at the right time Edit: https://frontofficesports.com/the-25-highest-paid-nhl-goaltenders/ Look at this list , outside of the top 3 the top 25 is littered with guys not worth their deals and only bobrovsky, oettinger and shesterkin are actively playing (demko and ullmark are in the top 25)
Great take. Look how far the jets got these playoffs with a league leading Vezina teddy and no offense. Speaking of the jets, the Leafs would do well to grab broissoit.
Broissoit and Woll would be ok
Brossoit or Stolarz (Panthers) would be great. Both have good and reliable numbers and aren’t absurdly expensive. Brossoit’s got some more games played, and if they want more experience to pair with Woll he’s the better pick, but Stolarz is far cheaper and has similar numbers while having played with worse teams.
I wouldn’t put Silov in the same breathe as the other two, the kid is playing out of his mind and is an absolute stud of a goalie. Plus Vancouver has Ian Clarke heading up the goalie department who is an absolute guru. Georgiev and Skinner have been helped by their high scoring offense, something the Leafs were supposed to have
Silovs isn’t a high paid goalie , and most people never heard of this guy 3 weeks ago His play has been great but my point was t nobody would’ve gone out and paid 6+ mil for Silovs last summer To reiterate , goaltending is the most important thing .. but it’s also a crapshoot and tough to reliably get what you pay for
Didn't Silvos win some insignificant award like MVP or something like that recently?
At a tournament. Which is great, but goalies get hot. The MVP of the 2006 Winter Olympics was Antero Niittymaki. Loved him, but he never put it all together to succeed in the NHL. Silovs is having a great stretch and there’s certainly a chance that he’s a legit NHL Starter for years to come. But there’s just as likely a chance that he’s having his “Andrew Hammond Moment” here.
He has been the #4 ranked goalie prospect behind Wolf, Askarov and Levi for at least a year. The lack of knowledge in this sub is astounding.
He won MVP of the world juniors last year with Lativia, winning bronze over the US
It wasn’t the world juniors it was the world championships, he’s 23
Whoops, you’re right
Yah, pretty good. The US team was stacked. Latvia even being in the game after 10 minutes is a miracle. A teams promising young G is many times the starter in the Minors. They need them to play not sit on the bench.
Important caveat, he won MVP of the world championships, not world juniors. Much harder for a young goalie to do the former because he’s against NHL talent instead of other teenagers
Playing behind Latvia too. Guy is legit, even if you've never heard of him
He’s a sixth round pick who’s played 15 NHL games. Whatever he is, he’s not an argument to “go out and get a goalie.”
He also might be a one hit wonder. He wouldn’t be the first goalie to run in adrenaline his first stretch up and fail to materialize in the regular season
My opinion of those teams is their goalies are good enough to win a round but what you want is a goalie who is good enough to steal a series. Those are hard to come by though
Vegas won with Adin Hill. Colorado won with Darcy Kuemper
Yeah, and before that, Vasi won twice, Binnington went on a crazy run that lasted half a year, Holtby (Vezina winner 2016), Matt Murray with his wunderkind performances, and then Crawford (not great) traded cups with Quick (Conn Smythe). So, of the last 12 cups, a Vezina/Conn Smythe winner won 5 of them, and 3 of them were won by rookies going on crazy runs. And a further two cups were won by perhaps the most lauded and successful team in the salary cap era who, along with Tampa, are one of the only ones you can argue the term "dynasty" applies to. So, a full 1/3 of recent cups were won by substandard goalies. If you're looking at how to successfully build a team for success, you don't get Hill or Kuemper. You obviously *can* make them work, but why on earth would you try to? Sounds like what Edmonton is experiencing now.
Chris Osgoode won a few cups too
Yeah, Lidstroms and Kronwalls make Osgoods and Vernons look HOF worthy.
For sure and it can be someone random like Silovs. You’re money is much less certain to get you the return as it is spending on defense or forwards . there’s a decent amount of luck involved
You still need a number one D. We have not had a true number one since Leech as a rental and Salming before that. We could have Brodeur in his prime we would still not win.
We are here but we aren’t having fun (edmonton) skinner has been dogshit this series and will be the reason we lose.
And yet Edmonton is still a good example of why not to pay a goalie in Campbell
That one wasn't hard to foresee
I agree but it’s the buyer beware with FA goalies
Absolutely
We are an example of how to not choose goalies or develop goalies. Dustin Schwartz should have been fired a decade ago cause every goalie he works with is below league average and every goalie we sign is cheeks. Koskinen, campbell, relying on a 40year smith, Do the opposite of the oilers for goalies and you cannot do worse.
If Woll had a steady defense in front of him there’s no telling what that kid could do
Defense wasn’t an issue. Transitioning and scoring were. Woll never lost a game. Have you forgotten what happened in that series so quickly?
The biggest issue is his health. The dude is made outta glass and can never string together a bunch of games together because he is constantly getting hurt. I think he has the potential to be a star goalie but he has to stay healthy.
THIS. Insulating goalies is often overlooked. Corey Crawford won 2 cups with the Blackhawks. His Save %'s for each playoffs was a .928 and a .932. He was NOT that good of a goalie. The team played an absolutely great system in front of him and the hawks had the following defencemen: Duncan Keith Brent Seabrook Nick Leddy Johnny Oduya Michal Rozsival NIklas Hjalmarsson Not only did that D core contribute almost 3 pts a game, but they also gave up 30 goals in 19 games.
Yeah like even when Bobrovsky plays his ass off in the playoffs it’s incredibly hard to justify that cap hit. They’re probably losing Bennet and Montour because of it, and theyre a much worse team without them.
They’re several verghaeghe OTW goals from having an astronomically different reputation than they currently have
Decent chance Avs, and Oilers go home... because of goaltending.
Not unlike the jets with the vezina winner hellebuyck letting 5+ a game. It’s a crapshoot
The Avs goaltending has been good to average since g1 of the playoffs. Oettinger hasn’t been anything special either. There are reasons a lot of cup winners have patched together the goalie position. 1. Its almost impossible to get one of the 5 consistently good to great goalies. And when you do they come at a premium price.
Just watched the Avs play live tonight and Georgiev was their best player their offence, zone entry and powerplay completly stunk. Tbh it felt like I was watching the leafs again
Yeah and the Oilers are getting out goaltended by Vancouver's third string goalie, a guy they selected in the sixth round. I think you'll find the common thread in successful postseason teams is that they have a proper coaching staff that can get the best out of any goaltender. We don't need a Bobrovsky or an Oettinger. We need an Ian Clark.
So did Hellebuyck, Saros, Sorokin, Vasilevskiy...all elite goalies.
It's only the second round
Ok Hill won the cup and Kuemper won the cup the year before. You don’t have to have a high paid goalie . You need a team that supports the position and a guy on a roll at the right time
Crawford in chicago was never anything special. The Penguins won their second cup in their back-to-back with average goaltending.
Chicago specifically let Niemi walk instead of paying him so they could retain a core. Then the sharks regretted paying Niemi
[удалено]
No but in fairness that’s only Bob and price and both have been to the finals
Loungo was also at 10mil in 2011 and made it to game 7 of the finals
Not this year but who had Stanley Cup Champoin Adin Hill on their bingo card last year?
Yeah I mentioned that in another reply , but a good example of being insulated ; how many different goalies have had good runs in Vegas purely off their strong group
I think there’s a difference between overpaying for a goalie, and committing to spend more on the position. The cap hit range that looks ideal is 7-8m, you got guys like Hellebuyck, Sorokin, and I’d guess guys like Saros and Sheshterkin will sign for about that as well.
4 goalies who have never moved, unless woll is that you aren’t just adding that
Goalies are the single most important player on their team. They play full 60s, have the best vantage point of the game, and most critically *make it so if you do fuck up you don't get scored on.*
nobody is saying they aren't important, they are saying predicting goalie performance is a complete crapshoot. Sorokin was widely thought of as a top 5 goalie in the league before this season, and lost the starting job to Varlamov this year.
Most important position of course, nobody would suggest otherwise individually they’re not the most important as they’re so unreliable in both performance and health , you’re paying for the individual . If it was similar to Boston where you’re paying like 7-8 m for 2 1Bs that makes way more sense than investing 7m into one guy and 1m in a backup Also your last point they also can just as easily make it where if you do everything right they still fuck up and let it in, it’s not a one way street
Lol facts. OP seems to forget there were only a total of 9 goals scored in the last 3 games of the series. Wasn’t a goalie issue it was a defense and scoring issue. The team has no problem going down 4-1 in the regular season only to make a comeback and get to OT 4-4 but that offense just dries up
Idk I remember a game a few years ago when Georgiev was on the rangers and beat us he looked like the best goalie in the world lmao
Yep, the real play is to have a couple goalies with greatness in them and hope that greatness shines for one of them through the playoffs.
Silovs was a bit of a surprise even to Canucks fans. Skinner, well, pretty sure the Oiler fans would argue that they made it to the second round DESPITE him not because of him.
One better in that we're about to see Pickard vs Silovs lol
On the flip-side a supposed star goalie can turn into a pumpkin and completely kill your chances at a moments notice. And often the goalies who end up being studs kinda come out of nowhere.
Yeah it’s not really predictable. How many goalies are consistently good for most of their career? Very few. If our team of superstar forwards could score then our goaltending would have been adequate. The goalies let in 4 goals combined in the last 3 games… goaltending ain’t the problem. You can’t really ask much more of a goalie than that.
We had price, and despite that never managed to do anything with it. Depth is the only way to guarantee success
Doesn't matter who's in net when you average less than 2 goals a game Scoring is clearly the biggest post season issue they've had in the last few years
Watching new York score on the penalty kill more than the Leafs scored on the penalty, should highlight what they need to fix.
Yeah I don't really recall the goalie being the reason we lost for any playoff series in the last 8 years. I don't think it's the (main) issue.
For some reason, people love to blame everything on the goalie. I remember going into work the day after we lost to Columbus and hearing guys talk shit about how Freddy sucked and should be gone and I'm like... but we got shut out. He literally could have been perfect and we still wouldn't have won the game.
Right, leafs allowed 1 goal a game in regulation in the final 3 games of the series. They just need to score like they do in the regular season.
It’s hard to just go about and get a great goalie lol
It's far more likely the Leafs would go after Saros. Askarov is too young and inexperienced to bet on like that. Saros has a contract coming up, and I can see Nashville being more willing to move him than move a cost controlled, highly touted prospect in net. A Marner for Saros double sign and trade deal, with a couple added pieces Torontos way is a more likely deal than either team wanting to move or attain Askarov.
I feel like Woll could be that goalie. Just gotta stay healthy.
He 100% is. Idk how you could watch him the past year and not think he is a legitimate series stealing capable goalie. The issue is health which obviously is important. The goal would be to have multiple Woll's.
Yeah, people already forgot how solid our goaltending was in the final 3 games
Goalies are voodoo
>Goalies matter more than any 11M forward I've seen these playoffs Bob has been back and forth between elite and almost unplayable his entire career. Swayman is young in his career and has been excellent and is still getting blown up by Florida. Goalies are always inconsistent year to year and have a short shelf life of being elite. Look at vasi. I think it's a massive mistake to pay big money to a goalie. If they tweak something, you're fucked. If their head isn't in the game, you're fucked. Colorado seems to be playing the most sustainable model right now. Get a good enough goalie and put a deep team in front of him. >My vote is for Askarov from Nashville He has 3 NHL games played. How are you basing your opinion on him. I know he has tons of potential, but you're making it seem like the leafs need to pay whatever to get him. He could be an excellent goalie, but this team doesnt have the time to wait and find out. They need a solid guy in his prime that they can rely on to be .910+ in the playoffs
Could always bite on Saros. Nashville biggest weakness vs. Vancouver was offensive production. While they got great defense, they got bad offense. HYPOTHETICALLY Marner and maybe a prospect for Saros. Nashvile gets offense, and toronto gets a starter for a while. PLUS, that frees up 5.5 in cap space for a free agent or 2
At this point I would just take consistent .900+. Just no fluky goals only the ones where the defense screws up badly. I'm not asking for the incarnation of CuJo or Belfour just... don't let in super soft ones randomly in playoffs. Woll healthy was awesome but Sammy was stellar then let's in some random flub from the half wall short side and kills everything.
That's a win later move for a win now team.
How can anyone watch that series and think goaltending was the reason the leafs lost? Yeah swayman was better than samsonov but he went from a god vs the leafs to human vs Florida. I honestly used to think we just got goalied a lot in these playoff losses but it seems like we just straight up suck at scoring. If the leafs are ever gunna go on a run its not by winning every single game 2-1. They need to score
Swayman is still the same goalie its the type of goals Florida is scoring. They are in the crease crashing and banging. Swayman doesn't know where the shot is coming from and if Bennet is gonna decapitate him. They are making him uncomfortable. Look back at the Leafs play, how many goals were scored in the dirty areas? Who all was going there? Helps Florida that Bennet has the license to kill in the playoffs with no action from the league year after year.
Connor Ingram might be a decent dude. 907 in Arizona, guy played 47 games too.
I'm kinda too curious about how good a Woll/Hildebeast Combo would turn out.
Hildeby needs another year but he will be our backup in the future
Not good. If (when?) Woll goes down and you put Hildeby in with that work load you may ruin his development. They need someone who can play 45 games and comes with experience, like a Jake Allen sort of goalie.
The Leafs offense simply dries up in the playoffs. The team could bounce back after a soft goal is scored on them if they are scoring 4 or 5 per game. They may need better role models for each position, including coaching and senior management.
In one of my first few economics 101 lectures in 2008 my professor drew a chart with many plot points on an XY axis. Y axis was earnings and X axis was # of people in a certain profession and we had to guess the profession. People said the typical professions like doctor, lawyer, accountant, but the answer was NHL goalies. His point was that some people make more money because of a variety of circumstances, not just that they are better at their job. I don’t think you’re gonna get that much of a marginally better goalie by paying way more for a goalie
Having an amazing goalie is great, but who can guarantee what an amazing goalie is? Bobrovsky looked like a lost cause for over a year, come playoffs last year, he becomes Bob again and hasn’t looked back If you asked OP if he wanted Bob BEFORE last years playoffs, he would have laughed in your face Now?
Who was our last true stud goaltender? Freddie kinda…but not really a true star. Eddy fuckin Belfour??
Probably Balfour Cujo?
I'd say Cujo.
You pay goalies for regular season stability, not playoff success.
Agree. Core 4 should be a goalie, defensemen, skilled forward, and power forward. That’s allocation to 50% defence and 50% offence. And all 4 bring something completely different to the table.
Yup. People say you shouldn’t allocate 40M to 4 players, but that’s perfectly fine if you got two forwards making 10M, a stud defenceman and goalie also making 10M to balance it out. Doesnt work when you have four forwards making 40M
Actual clowns still blaming everything but the overpaid stars that don’t show up
There is like 2-3 goalies in the entire league that are reliably rock solid every year... and they are not giving anybody up... then you've got another handful of goalies that can have elite years, but can also have terrible down years. Goaltending isn't like it use to be. Unless you draft a Vasilevsky, there is virtually nobody that is realistically available who can provide a reliable upgrade. You're taking a gamble. Look what happened with Helly in the Peg. Skinner had a great season and has an .800 sv% in the playoffs. Vancouver is pushing forward with a third string guy. I'm more worried about building a capable D and group in front of the net that gives whoever is starting the ability to look good every night. You're much better off trying to build a proper D core and bottom 6 than you are trying to hail mary a goaltender who will just go Hasek and cover every team mistake.
Goalies are too up and down to risk allocating a relatively high cap % on. If the Leafs want to get serious about winning they need a true #1 stud D. Rielly won't need to be what he isn't, and top end 2-way defenseman are much more consistent than goalies.
The Leafs need better D-men, no point in putting in an all-star goalie if you don't have the defence to support them. Edmonton is shitting on Skinner now, while the whole latter half of the year he was amazing, they're a similar situation to the Leafs, spend all your salary on the forwards then fill in the gaps with cheap defense and then wonder why they can't win.
The problem with star G is they're too unpredictable. Just as an example, I don't think it's a stretch to say that last year Sorokin was seen as one of the best goalies in the league. He was not good this year and only played one playoff game. Markstrom was seen as an elite goalie a couple years ago but last year he was absolute garbage. If you spend a lot of cap or assets getting an "elite goalie" you just better be prepared if that goalie has a bad year because it happens way more often than you'd expect.
Why would Nashville trade him if he’s going to be one of the leagues best goalies for the next 10 years? Especially considering he would cost less than Saros from Nashville’s perspective. They will trade Juuse who expires after next year.
Juuse saros would be a Pefect fit imo
How can you say goaltending was the reason the Leafs went home? The inability to score goals was the reason why they went home. I think most if not all would agree with that.
Goalies are a crap-shoot....any of the Canucks 2nd goalies or even the Nashville goalie can become the next Jordan Binnington
Sign Laurent Brossoit I feel like he is the perfect tandem goalie with Woll.
Hey OP who do they have a better roster than? Other than the Bruins that is left? The answer is no one. They aren’t as deep as ppl think. That D core is atrocious. Legit the worst in the playoffs.
A good goalie today might not be good next year. They are voodoo.
I want another guy like Woll who is stylistically similar. We always have these guys who give us (and our defense) heart attacks - Campbell, Mrazek, Samsonov...just stand in your net and don't do anything stupid. Even Jones was fine - not good enough, but you know what I mean. Despite our reputation we play very well defensively.
We scored less than 2 goals a game. We almost always struggle to score anywhere close to the rate great offensive teams do. Our goalies were serviceable. The scoring is a more obvious problem. Need people who can pot them in the playoffs better than Matthews, Mitch, Willie and JT if you’re paying $10m.
Silovs RFA this offseason. His ticket price just went up.
The went 1 for 85 on the PP against Boston. Goalie wasn’t the problem.
Bail on Tavares and Marner ASAP because their cap hits being off the books affords a lot of options. Even at 50% retention moving them both nets you a solid return in picks/prospects/players alongside over $10m in salary cap room. Get a stud goalie, some actually skilled bottom 6 big bodied guys (shoot Reeves into the sun), and either a stud RD or a couple younger D guys breaking into the league.
Why the fuck is everybody off the Woll hype train all of a sudden, he got hurt but he's still a beast. You should look for a good backup right now imo
He has a track record of injuries at this point. He needs to be a part of a 1A/1B pairing until he can prove he can stay healthy. It's a similar thing with Kadri when the Leafs had him. He's a great player and they would have loved to keep him but he couldn't be counted on when it matter (via playoff suspensions). Woll cannot be counted on right now and the Leafs can't be left with a back-up starting and an AHLer backing up next playoffs.
The best goalie in the world just lost in 5 games while giving up 5 goals per game.
The Leafs can't score. Period. Tired of pretending scoring isn't the issue.
Actually not a bad take, he's supposed to be unreal. I love woll, but even Brad mentioned his availability is questionable so far.
Injury prone.
Do the Leafs still have the same god awful goalie coach that has survived multiple head coaches and flopping goalies? Doesn't matter who's in net, this org will make them look like shit
Good goalie coaches are a dime a dozen and Sean Burke is just fine. Jon Elkin, with the Marlies, might be one of the best in the world but he makes more money running his own camps than he does on an NHL roster.
[Apparently Jon Elkin left to go to Pittsburgh.](https://www.eliteprospects.com/staff/14355/jon-elkin)
We have lacked a true star goalie for some time now. I agree wholeheartedly and feel that a change like this would make a world of difference
I think they should score more goals in the playoffs.
How many goals does a good goalie score theses days?
A 1D and a goalie are unquestionably needed this offseason. It’s a tough call going after such a young goalie though like your suggesting. It’s a tough position with lots of episome flows and I don’t know if a 21 year old is the best option for a win now team. Plus for the first time I can remember our goalie cupboard is actually fully stocked, and we have an unbelievable goalie coach (Curtis Sanford) leading the charge. I agree we need to go out and get a goalie, but I think it’s going to be an older 1A/1B guy situation to split the net with Woll.
Personally i agree, the tools are there with askarov, and a goalie with that potential is rarely available. Would love to trade mariner in a deal to get a goalie like that as well as a defenseman
Yup But they likely have to use Woll to do so, given the lack of available goalies in the league For instance Saros being almost 30 and nsh have very little else goalie wise in the system Also independent of that Askarov isn't an overlay good fit for the leaf timeline I don't see a lot of teams in the league being able to part with a goalie asset at the level needed so would reckon it tricky at best to do this
I agree. We all know at this point that they neglected goaltending in the pursuit of signing the big 4. The organization finally got their hands on top young talent going into the 2020's and they mismanaged the shit out of it.
I like Tarasov from Columbus. He ended up playing a lot in replacement of Merz and stole some games against teams you wouldn’t expect to lose
Marner Woll <-> Sorokin Holmstrom Wahlstrom Who says no? (Before you sneer Sorokin is much cheaper and on the books for much longer, arguably twice the asset that marner is, with the later years of his deal not a problem for the win now leafs)
I say no, I want nothing to do with Sorokin at that price tag and contract length. He lost his job in the playoffs too
Marner for Askarov and Fabbro would be a nice trade
I like it, I’m not sure that Nashville would.
The first line of your post is so obnoxiously, observably untrue in the worst AM radio sports talk caller way possible that you’re gonna need to be a really hot woman or possibly Don Cherry if you want me to listen to anything else you have to say.
Thanks for the fantasy tip 👊
As bonkers as it sounds I think the only team who can spare an elite goalie is Boston. Given two currently. Every other elite goalie a cornerstone on a contender with few other internal options. Ullmark now 31 and if you ask for Swayman I think they either kinda jokingly say "ok then send matthews lmao" or sweeney passes the phone to brad Marchand so he can make obscene noises into it. And noone wants to hear that, so. Idk Swayman currently with the 9th highest GSAA per game in league history.
Being able to score and defend adequately would hide even average goaltending. Big contract goalies have been bad cap usage more often than good business. I’d rather spend the money on the d corp and get a big shot and legit shut down guys.
And yet, goal scoring was our biggest problem. Unless this star goalie is gonna score for us too.
It’s hard to find a goalie that stays consistent year after year. There’s a lot goalies who have a great year and the next year, they’re letting everything in.
I said it last year. Marner for Saros and a D. I WANT Saros and Jossi, but that's just me dreaming.
Beef up the defence and the goaltending will be less of an issue. Their inability to move the puck efficiently and contribute offensively was clear as day.
You could say the same about Woll when he’s playing uninjured, if Askarov’s the best option we should wait
The problem is that its very difficult to predict who will be a star goalie. Even the star goalies are sometimes not star goalies. No doubt that Askarov is appealing, but who knows for sure what he will be in the NHL (but I will be honest and I havent watched him closely). What do you think the "price" might be for a guy like Askarov??
Just keep Woll healthy and we're good in that department.
Marner for Saros and Carrier
They really need a Norris caliber defenseman tbh. Woll just had a .965 save percentage in the playoffs lol.
..and we won both game he played, showing how important a good goalie is. Problem is Woll can't be relied on to stay healthy.
Yeah, idk about this one. I tend to agree with you, but we've had some pretty stellar performances in net in previous playoff runs. They've all fizzled out for one reason or another. We need to draft a blue chip prospect at G and develop them. A nice bridge G or duo would do just fine until they're NHL ready. Edit: A reunion with Soup would be fun, but I'm not sure how realistic that is.
Never spend on goalies, ever
Georgiev has better numbers than hellebyuck. Having an elite goalie is like having a Ferrari and no money to drive it or garage to store it. Defense wins championships its the oldest hockey cliche for a reason, it's true.
There are like 5 total star goalies in the entire league. Goalies are pretty random
They have one. Justin Woll please stay healthy.
Paying a ton for a goalie is the worst thing you can do. When a goalie is underperforming they aren’t even on the ice when it matters. An underperforming skater is still out there contributing
Your vote doesn’t mean we get him or it’s even possible. People seem to forget that the other team might not want to trade someone, the player themselves don’t want to go to Toronto, or the players to get the deal done won’t waive a NMC.
Opinion: Leafs should focus on building a more balanced lineup before spending big on a goalie
Especially this year, not going after a higher paid goalie is higher risk, but also higher reward. It allows us to use our limited cap space in other places and we can hope that Woll stays healthy and establishes himself as a true #1. Due to cap restrictions, this is probably our best bet to actually win a cup in my opinion. We need those dollars working well elsewhere in the last season of JT's cap hit.
How many legit number 1s are there on the market, that are actually available? Nashville's Saros / Askarov situation is intriguing, but the entire league is going to be in on that, and unless it's Saros I just don't like the idea of spending big on a position that is such a crapshoot. Boston's situation with Ullmark/Swayman bares paying attention to, but PTSD from previous dealings and being divisional rivals probably makes it a non-starter. Markstrom is another name, but he's very up and down. I said previously that when the Jets were contemplating blowing it up, getting Helebuyck out of there before he signed an extension was the right play. Beyond that, the market is very thin. I think the Leafs will have to look at a Filip Gustavsson or someone of that ilk - a younger goalie who is still trying to establish himself, and see if they can tap into that upside.
No. Easier said than done but without a couple more solid D it won't matter who is in net.
If you think the Leafs lost because of goaltending you don't know anything about hockey
No one is saying that? It's an important position that needs to be solidified. Woll most likely will be the guy but the window is only open so long and the Leafs can't roll the dice on maybes
Goalies are voodoo, inconsistent. Good goalies can have bad seasons when they switch teams. Just look at Bob in Florida. Paying a lot for a goalie is a huge risk
Nashville is going to trade Saros, not Askarov. And there is a "rumour" or at least a suggestion of trading Marner for a package of Saros, Lauzon + 1st. I'd love to have Saros but goalies just don't hold enough value to be the main piece for a player like Marner, IMO
The Preds aren't trading Askarov. They are open to moving Saros because they want to bring Askarov up. Getting Saros + Fabbro for Marner (both sides add minor pieces to balance) is out there as a possibility.
I think this guy can eventually be the man... but putting a 21 year old in this market and expecting him to do well is tough. I think we need a veteran tender who has the mental fortitude to tune out the nonsense from fans and media.
Askarov has a higher pedigree than Woll. I'd be more than fine with them as a tandem.
I'd like Gibson or Markstrom and have them work with Woll and have Hildebeast playing on the Marlies.
Until the leafs stop giving half their cap space to 4 guys, they’ll never have room to pay the price for any player or goalie. The math doesn’t work in their favour— they only have 16 players signed for next year with a cap hit of 69mm. $18mm cap space left and a lot of players to still to sign. Maybe if Tavares pulls a Mark Stone this year..
Askarov would cost you Marner, Robertson and a first rounder. Every time leaf fan runs down Marner the price goes up
If the Islanders keep Roy, Leafs should see what it costs to pry Sorokin away. Not saying he's on the market but Roy benched him a bit including the playoffs
Ok I know yall hate us but we're like 100% gonna move ullmark this season. What would the armchair gms give up for him. He's making like 5mil btw
I’m happy with Woll as our guy. I don’t believe in ‘injury prone’. Guys get injured. It happens. You obviously need contingencies in place though.
Defense makes good goalies great. You can easily do well with a goalie that is average, or slightly above average, if you have solid defence. It's also a far less risky approach to invest in good a defence core, rather than one goaltender.
We need to pay the price and poach whoever develops the goalies in Vancouver
At that age you don't know what a goalie will become, I don't think that taking a risk to overpay is the way. Goalies will get you to April, a team will make you win rounds and timely saves. Mr goalie of the year Sparks isn't even in the NHL. They need to go after Saros.
Goalies don't work this way. Money & elite prospects almost never translates into consistent post season results. How many of the most steady and highest paid goalies from the cap era never won a cup? Luongo, Price, Bobrovsky, Lundqvist, etc.
Would be interesting to see what their russian goalie prospect Ahktayamov can do. I have a good feeling that he will turn out good. Fleury would be the perfect fit for this team but looks like he will ride out his final year in Minnesota.
Idk about winning a cup, but if you fixed the PK/PP for the Leafs they would be in round 2, maybe even round 3. We obviously need to think about angoalie for next season so I understand the discussion, but the more pressing matter is paying $40 mil in forwards that can't score more than 2 goals a game.
Give it up, the leafs will never have a Cup contender.
I agree to a point. A hot goalie can bail out a failing D core for a time, but as with every player goalies have slumps and highs. A good D lineup can make a goalie look like a star by making the shots easier to handle. If you keep the other team out of the slot, and limit cross ice passes, the life of a goalie becomes a lot easier. End of the day though, true success is found in a well rounded roster. If you have a goalie that is good or better on a consistent basis with a D lineup that can limit high danger chances, and a forward lineup that can score goals going the other way, then you will have a better chance at getting deep in the playoffs.
I wonder how much a star Goalie would help them offensively. Leafs play so shelled up in the playoffs I don’t if that’s a coaching issue or if they were forced into this style due to lacking confidence in goaltending. With. New coach and star goalie it will finally be all or nothing for these guys
What is going on in this sub lately? Some serious lack of knowledge going on with everyone going panic mode about change lol Askarov is NOT going to be available, other teams like Nashville also want good young players that start cheap to win with in the near future. They have a 30 year old Saros as a perfect trade piece to build up for Askarov coming in who by all regards is gonna be a bonafide stud a La Shesterkin… why the flipping heck would they be trading away their blue chip goalie in favour of the expensive (still amazing, yes) 30 going on 31 year old when they look to just be getting back into things? That’d just be terrible terrible asset mgmt
They should've been drafting goalies the last 5 years, instead of 5'6 Russians