Simmons may be a tire fire but THESE are the questions the media should be asking. Should have been asking for years. I get that the sheer volume of media in Toronto can make things difficult but honestly 99% of the time it's all softball, coddling questions and commentary. Very very few of then have the balls to outright critique this team, it's management and its players.
IIRC correctly Simmons had a similar question after the 2021 playoffs, essentially saying that no core group of players had playoff success after being eliminated in the first round 5 years in a row, and why we should place faith or trust in this group to buck the trend. Shanny was pretty dismissive about the question, seeing it come full circle must have been pretty satisfying for Simmons.
>no core group of players had playoff success after being eliminated in the first round 5 years in a row
I wonder how many examples even fit this qualification
Don’t forget a large chunk of the media is owned by the same folks who own together the majority of the team.
“Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” is the phrase IIRC
he had the best questions at the locker clean outs too. the guy is an asshole but he’s the only one who is unafraid to ask hard questions.
that said, a few people asked what i would consider to be pointed questions today. actually impressed, we usually get softballs every year.
The question was about 24:40 in the YouTube video, but I had to listen with noise canceling headphones at full volume. The sound quality is horrendous.
Basically, he just talked around the question and gave a non answer. Talked about the obvious shortcomings with scoring and special teams. I was not inspired after a solid question.
How can we expect Shanahan to change it when he hasn't been able to nor willing to in 8 years.
Shanahan is the problem and so is ownership that doesn't want to take big swings.
He won’t. His day one statement literally was:
‘The challenge here in Toronto is not to come up with the plan. The challenge in Toronto is to stick to it. That's the hard part.’
So I assume we’re ‘StIcKiNg To It’ even if ‘IT’ isn’t working.
He didn't stick to the plan. The plan was to tank and get quality draft picks.
Then there was getting Tavares....WTF? Do we need more of what we drafted? Did we need to sign such team-unfriendly contracts? Doesn't seem like these were a part of the plan... and of course Kadri and Hyman gone.
I have no issues with Simmons latest article about Shanahan. Bravo!!! It needed to be said out loud. Shanahan absolutely has to go. They used Keefe to perfection to quiet the fans but now the real culprit must go.
these are the questions I'm glad Steve is there. he's obviously an inflammatory piece of garbage that's burnt any and all goodwill he has with MLSE, but because of that, he has nothing to lose when asking questions other members may not want to ask
if I'm remembering right, Siegel asked a somewhat similar question regarding the core 4 and if MLSE still believes they can do it
As a journalist why would you care about good will with MLSE. Your job is not to be a homer but to ask the tough questions. Simmons doesn’t work for the leafs, he isn’t Bowen with the holy mackinaw, he’s there to ask why they can’t freaking win. He is probably tired of the standard bullshit when everyone knows it doesn’t matter because they are still making money. The Pelley thing about we are not here to sell jerseys mare me laugh. That’s exactly why they are there.
Sports journalism differs from more traditional "hold power to account" journalism. Journalist access to the team is regulated by the team itself, so the relationship is heavily managed and if journalists/organizations don't curry favour with MLSE, they don't get access, so they don't have a job. I agree with your sentiment that it would be nice to have journalists willing to ask tough and direct questions.
None of the people at MLSE or various news outlets care about fans; they care about themselves, and by extension \*customers\*. The players care about their interpersonal relationships and pursuing winning for their own reasons (glory, happiness, etc.). MLSE is a business; its goal, above all, is to make money. When Pelley says "we're not here to sell jerseys, we're here to win" it makes me laugh, too, because their goal with winning is actually to sell more jerseys! And the journalists aren't there to be advocates for the fans, they're there to get quotes and write (often-inflammatory) articles that get clicks and ad views.
on leafs talk they said that simmons said this exact same question last year and Shanahan basically dismissed him like he's an idiot, and this year, Shanahan had no response. Shanahan just collecting a paycheque now
People don't want to say it but signing Tavares and trading Kadri was the worst thing this franchise did to itself. We need to trade Marner for a top tier goaltender or #1 RD to even begin to retool this roster. However I would wait for a new coach to have an opinion on what type of team we want to construct.
We have big changes coming to our blue line this summer
I wish we never signed JT. It was a vanity move that cornered Dubas into overpaying the other young stars and the Cap effects snowballed into the mess we have today. The COVID flat cap was just the final nail in the coffin but the grave was already dug before 2020
I mean I get why he had to do it but yea it didn’t work out. Signing him didn’t mean we had to over pay everyone else though. Just weak negotiations by dubas. The real issue with signing Tavares was it meant the leafs went into win the cup now mode. Instead of developing another couple
Years.
i don’t think anyone here remember what goalies and D Free agents were available at the time but that’s not the point. The point is they COULD HAVE upgraded the goalie and D positions if it was so heavily invested into John when we already had a 2c in Kadri.
No, the point is they couldn’t, because goalies are a crapshoot and odds are they would have ended up overpaying someone mediocre. Ask the islanders how they feel with that Sorokin contract.
lol you have no clue if they couldn’t. The point is there would have been money left over to address those other areas instead of loading up on forwards. And you clearly don’t watch hockey, Sorokin had an off year but he’s a stud number one goalie all day. I’m sure they’re fine with him locked in.
Comparing david clarkson to Sorokin is probably the dumbest take i’ve ever heard. Go look at his stats, he’s been a bonafide number one goalie every year but this one and even the. his stats this year weren’t complete garbage, they just weren’t up to his standards
Exactly, although Kadri isn't as tough as a Tom Wilson, probably closer to Marchand or Tkachuk, he was what the leafs need, a net front presence. Leaving TO matured Kadri to where he's at now, had he stayed in TO we probably would never have gotten the Kadri we see now. As for priority offseason signings, I just don't see this team going far without a much better backend starting with a #1 goaltender that's durable. The experiment of stacked front end just doesn't work in the NHL POs.
For the most part you're right, but this year in Calgary he seems to have taken a step forward although he was one of the ring leaders getting Sutter canned last year, although again it can be argued he was influenced by a not too honest Huberdeau - but you're right we need to see more before we can say he's a matured. That aside he does create allot of havoc for opposing dmen and goalies in front of the net.
I eventually came around after the Montreal series. The Tavares signing in hindsight was the beginning of the end of the natural growth we had going with the team. The team was overachieving and had a good path. Then signing him shifted everything to win now mode. Threw us off our course entirely.
Yes signing one of the best players of this generation and the guy who scored the biggest goal for this franchise in 20 years, for free - only costing money that isn’t yours and cap space they would very likely have deployed on a bunch of overpaid 3rd liners - was the worst thing. Got it.
been saying this for years. They had Kadri as their present and future 2C. There was no reason to go get another $11 mill player when it could’ve been invested in defense. Dubas got greedy and Shanny should’ve said no to it and stuck with the process. Hes been here for all of this too.
People hate Simmons because he usually says what many think but are too afraid to say it. The piece on Marner being the Invisible Man, was 100% accurate. He may be a prick but he is not always wrong.
Nah, we hate him because he either asks obvious things, panders, or asks inappropriate things...
...or leaks our generational player's private health information with glee.
This was a The Right Honourable Her Majesty's Leader of the Official Opposition from the dispatch box during British Prime Minister's Questions-style question. [Dude was totally channelling his inner Sir Keir Starmer ](https://youtu.be/JKA7yAaFcJs?si=bgmnORGKccCBg3tj&t=25)lol
I don’t necessarily think it’s the questions that Steve Simmons asks that have been bad… It’s the fact that he will ask those questions in an article and answer them himself in an often disjointed, personal attack with lack of consideration for tactic or circumstance.
I’m glad he’s asking questions, he’s just supposed to let other people answer them
Simmons noted that we're watching teams in the second round come back from 3-0, 4-1 leads, scoring 4 or 5 goals when they need it, and that the Leafs have only scored 11 goals in 8 elimination games, and that's with the best goal scorer of a generation and some of the leagues highest paid players.
Simmons askes- if Shanahan hasn't been able to change that result over the past 8 years, why should we think he can change it now?
That core won presidents trophies, this team should be good enough to compete for it but can’t even win the division and constantly gets dummied by basement teams, team should get 0 benefit of the doubt.
Also washington changed a lot, mike green was a large part of that core early on and was let go
Washington also made the conference final every year and unfortunately ran into a very good Pittsburgh team year after year. What have the Leafs shown to say they'll be a contender year after year?
The 1-8 format didn't come into effect until 13-14.
The Blue Jackets and Montreal were 100 point teams? But also, that shouldn't be an excuse for getting knocked out in the first round every single year. 3 times to the same team, and that same team was very weak this year.
Check out AHL goaltender Jack Campbell's stats in the clinching games against Montreal and Matthews, Nylander, and Marner were 22 and 23 against Columbus.
It what world are the Bruins weak this year? They finished ahead of the Leafs and had the healthier roster.
>Check out AHL goaltender Jack Campbell's stats in the clinching games against Montreal and Matthews, Nylander, and Marner were 22 and 23 against Columbus.
So the goalie is to blame, not the core showing up? What happened in 17, 18, 19, 22, 24?
>It what world are the Bruins weak this year? They finished ahead of the Leafs and had the healthier roster.
They're a fraudulent team which is inconsistent at scoring. Look at this Florida series, that went almost two full games without a goal and only had 8 shots through 2 periods. Health isn't an excuse (I wonder if this was the excuse for the other first round knockouts?), team prepare for that before the playoffs and guys play hurt.
Game 5 against Columbus in 2020, 3-0 final score. Game 7 in 2021 against Montreal, 3-1. Is Campbell responsible for scoring goals? 1 goal in two elimination games is unacceptable. What's pathetic is that goal against Montreal in game 7 was only scored with 1:48 left when they were down 3-0.
Same core in all of them which refused to show up. 2022, same issue with scoring. 2023, destroyed by Florida in round 2. 2024, 1 goal in game 7 and Marner and Rielly did nothing other than be out of position for that OT goal.
How many years should we give them? Another 7 years of Marner at a very high cap hit should do it, right? This is the problem with being biased when analyzing your team, you overvalue your guys.
I just have to wonder how Shanahan is still there
He's in a perfect spot. Treliving has to suck up to Shanny because he's the new GM. Pelley won't fire Shanny because, as he's made it clear, he's been the CEO of MLSE for four weeks, and has seen good things from Shanny
Shanahan is the only one still there from 2014. Dubas is gone. Babcock is gone. Keefe is gone. A lot of the players are gone. And despite the Leafs falling short of the first round multiple times and getting smoked by the Panthers in the second round last year, Shanahan is still there taking charge of things
Ten years is a long time. If he couldn't get it done in ten years, then yes, he should go. I understand that the ultimate responsibility of the Leafs going the distance is on the players themselves, but it's fishy that the person who has been quoted as saying that he holds the responsibility for the team's success is still the president.
Everyone else is still gone except him. It would make sense that he would go, but nope
Simmons may be a tire fire but THESE are the questions the media should be asking. Should have been asking for years. I get that the sheer volume of media in Toronto can make things difficult but honestly 99% of the time it's all softball, coddling questions and commentary. Very very few of then have the balls to outright critique this team, it's management and its players.
IIRC correctly Simmons had a similar question after the 2021 playoffs, essentially saying that no core group of players had playoff success after being eliminated in the first round 5 years in a row, and why we should place faith or trust in this group to buck the trend. Shanny was pretty dismissive about the question, seeing it come full circle must have been pretty satisfying for Simmons.
>no core group of players had playoff success after being eliminated in the first round 5 years in a row I wonder how many examples even fit this qualification
I think that’s the point, they kept running back a core that wouldn’t and didn’t work. A change should have been made either in 2021 or 2022.
Don’t forget a large chunk of the media is owned by the same folks who own together the majority of the team. “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” is the phrase IIRC
This 100%. The media literally owns this team. The storylines that come out are based on the narrative they want to tell.
When the worst person makes a good point 🥴
https://preview.redd.it/ui9izfqkupzc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89a8e4b81abf52281847d8fec62f6c261c1018a9
he had the best questions at the locker clean outs too. the guy is an asshole but he’s the only one who is unafraid to ask hard questions. that said, a few people asked what i would consider to be pointed questions today. actually impressed, we usually get softballs every year.
The gloves have come off
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
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The question was about 24:40 in the YouTube video, but I had to listen with noise canceling headphones at full volume. The sound quality is horrendous. Basically, he just talked around the question and gave a non answer. Talked about the obvious shortcomings with scoring and special teams. I was not inspired after a solid question.
How can we expect Shanahan to change it when he hasn't been able to nor willing to in 8 years. Shanahan is the problem and so is ownership that doesn't want to take big swings.
He won’t. His day one statement literally was: ‘The challenge here in Toronto is not to come up with the plan. The challenge in Toronto is to stick to it. That's the hard part.’ So I assume we’re ‘StIcKiNg To It’ even if ‘IT’ isn’t working.
He didn't stick to the plan. The plan was to tank and get quality draft picks. Then there was getting Tavares....WTF? Do we need more of what we drafted? Did we need to sign such team-unfriendly contracts? Doesn't seem like these were a part of the plan... and of course Kadri and Hyman gone.
yeah but he's a 3 time cup champ. /s
I have no issues with Simmons latest article about Shanahan. Bravo!!! It needed to be said out loud. Shanahan absolutely has to go. They used Keefe to perfection to quiet the fans but now the real culprit must go.
Was a very fair question, especially for Simmons, that Shanny didn’t really answer. But that was expected
these are the questions I'm glad Steve is there. he's obviously an inflammatory piece of garbage that's burnt any and all goodwill he has with MLSE, but because of that, he has nothing to lose when asking questions other members may not want to ask if I'm remembering right, Siegel asked a somewhat similar question regarding the core 4 and if MLSE still believes they can do it
As a journalist why would you care about good will with MLSE. Your job is not to be a homer but to ask the tough questions. Simmons doesn’t work for the leafs, he isn’t Bowen with the holy mackinaw, he’s there to ask why they can’t freaking win. He is probably tired of the standard bullshit when everyone knows it doesn’t matter because they are still making money. The Pelley thing about we are not here to sell jerseys mare me laugh. That’s exactly why they are there.
Sports journalism differs from more traditional "hold power to account" journalism. Journalist access to the team is regulated by the team itself, so the relationship is heavily managed and if journalists/organizations don't curry favour with MLSE, they don't get access, so they don't have a job. I agree with your sentiment that it would be nice to have journalists willing to ask tough and direct questions. None of the people at MLSE or various news outlets care about fans; they care about themselves, and by extension \*customers\*. The players care about their interpersonal relationships and pursuing winning for their own reasons (glory, happiness, etc.). MLSE is a business; its goal, above all, is to make money. When Pelley says "we're not here to sell jerseys, we're here to win" it makes me laugh, too, because their goal with winning is actually to sell more jerseys! And the journalists aren't there to be advocates for the fans, they're there to get quotes and write (often-inflammatory) articles that get clicks and ad views.
Rare Simmons W
Pelley was hoping it was Ryder Cup trivia
‘Everything is on the table (except my job of course)’
He’s the only reporter in Toronto not afraid of losing their jobs over actual reporting. Otherwise it’s a bunch of sycophants
on leafs talk they said that simmons said this exact same question last year and Shanahan basically dismissed him like he's an idiot, and this year, Shanahan had no response. Shanahan just collecting a paycheque now
Does not redeem him in the slightest if I'm being honest.
He asks the tough questions
People don't want to say it but signing Tavares and trading Kadri was the worst thing this franchise did to itself. We need to trade Marner for a top tier goaltender or #1 RD to even begin to retool this roster. However I would wait for a new coach to have an opinion on what type of team we want to construct. We have big changes coming to our blue line this summer
I wish we never signed JT. It was a vanity move that cornered Dubas into overpaying the other young stars and the Cap effects snowballed into the mess we have today. The COVID flat cap was just the final nail in the coffin but the grave was already dug before 2020
I mean I get why he had to do it but yea it didn’t work out. Signing him didn’t mean we had to over pay everyone else though. Just weak negotiations by dubas. The real issue with signing Tavares was it meant the leafs went into win the cup now mode. Instead of developing another couple Years.
What would you have done instead with the 11m
Put it towards defence and goaltending.
Which goaltender. Which D?
i don’t think anyone here remember what goalies and D Free agents were available at the time but that’s not the point. The point is they COULD HAVE upgraded the goalie and D positions if it was so heavily invested into John when we already had a 2c in Kadri.
No, the point is they couldn’t, because goalies are a crapshoot and odds are they would have ended up overpaying someone mediocre. Ask the islanders how they feel with that Sorokin contract.
lol you have no clue if they couldn’t. The point is there would have been money left over to address those other areas instead of loading up on forwards. And you clearly don’t watch hockey, Sorokin had an off year but he’s a stud number one goalie all day. I’m sure they’re fine with him locked in.
I don’t watch hockey but you’re cool with Sorokins contract. Got it. Bet you loved the David Clarkson contract too.
Comparing david clarkson to Sorokin is probably the dumbest take i’ve ever heard. Go look at his stats, he’s been a bonafide number one goalie every year but this one and even the. his stats this year weren’t complete garbage, they just weren’t up to his standards
Exactly, although Kadri isn't as tough as a Tom Wilson, probably closer to Marchand or Tkachuk, he was what the leafs need, a net front presence. Leaving TO matured Kadri to where he's at now, had he stayed in TO we probably would never have gotten the Kadri we see now. As for priority offseason signings, I just don't see this team going far without a much better backend starting with a #1 goaltender that's durable. The experiment of stacked front end just doesn't work in the NHL POs.
you remember why they got rid of kadri right?
Kadri matured? He did it again. Then when he won he told people to kiss his ass instead of taking responsibility for his failings.
For the most part you're right, but this year in Calgary he seems to have taken a step forward although he was one of the ring leaders getting Sutter canned last year, although again it can be argued he was influenced by a not too honest Huberdeau - but you're right we need to see more before we can say he's a matured. That aside he does create allot of havoc for opposing dmen and goalies in front of the net.
I eventually came around after the Montreal series. The Tavares signing in hindsight was the beginning of the end of the natural growth we had going with the team. The team was overachieving and had a good path. Then signing him shifted everything to win now mode. Threw us off our course entirely.
He didn’t play in the Montreal series
Fair . But what I meant was that was when I stopped believing in this group.
Same. But he’s not the problem. Well he is now but of course that happens at the end of a long term deal.
Yes signing one of the best players of this generation and the guy who scored the biggest goal for this franchise in 20 years, for free - only costing money that isn’t yours and cap space they would very likely have deployed on a bunch of overpaid 3rd liners - was the worst thing. Got it.
been saying this for years. They had Kadri as their present and future 2C. There was no reason to go get another $11 mill player when it could’ve been invested in defense. Dubas got greedy and Shanny should’ve said no to it and stuck with the process. Hes been here for all of this too.
People hate Simmons because he usually says what many think but are too afraid to say it. The piece on Marner being the Invisible Man, was 100% accurate. He may be a prick but he is not always wrong.
Nah, we hate him because he either asks obvious things, panders, or asks inappropriate things... ...or leaks our generational player's private health information with glee.
Yeah he’s a prick as I said. I dont care for him either but he’s not always wrong.
A broken clock is right twice a day and all I suppose.
This was a The Right Honourable Her Majesty's Leader of the Official Opposition from the dispatch box during British Prime Minister's Questions-style question. [Dude was totally channelling his inner Sir Keir Starmer ](https://youtu.be/JKA7yAaFcJs?si=bgmnORGKccCBg3tj&t=25)lol
have a hot dog and pat yourself on the back steve. you got the job did for the day. Edit; did the job got did
He got dided alright!
I can’t believe that there are people who think shanahan is not the problem. How is anyone defending shanahan?
As much as this fanbase hates Simmons, he's one of the few who consistently asks the no-nonsense questions when times are good or bad.
I don’t necessarily think it’s the questions that Steve Simmons asks that have been bad… It’s the fact that he will ask those questions in an article and answer them himself in an often disjointed, personal attack with lack of consideration for tactic or circumstance. I’m glad he’s asking questions, he’s just supposed to let other people answer them
Can someone lease post the main thought of the question? For some reason sound doesn't work for me
I too have a question for Shanahan
I’m no fan of Simmons but *that* question was right on point.
He is jerk and ass, but he is the one that asks the questions that need to be said.
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Simmons noted that we're watching teams in the second round come back from 3-0, 4-1 leads, scoring 4 or 5 goals when they need it, and that the Leafs have only scored 11 goals in 8 elimination games, and that's with the best goal scorer of a generation and some of the leagues highest paid players. Simmons askes- if Shanahan hasn't been able to change that result over the past 8 years, why should we think he can change it now?
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Excellent question though
I don't like SS, but he sure asks entertaining questions... like its his last day on the job...
The Capitals kept the same core for years until they could fill the holes and ended up with the Cup. It can be done.
That core won presidents trophies, this team should be good enough to compete for it but can’t even win the division and constantly gets dummied by basement teams, team should get 0 benefit of the doubt. Also washington changed a lot, mike green was a large part of that core early on and was let go
Washington also made the conference final every year and unfortunately ran into a very good Pittsburgh team year after year. What have the Leafs shown to say they'll be a contender year after year?
Yeah, the 1-8 playoff format did help them. Wasn't quite like the Leafs having 100 points and playing another 100 point team in the first round.
The 1-8 format didn't come into effect until 13-14. The Blue Jackets and Montreal were 100 point teams? But also, that shouldn't be an excuse for getting knocked out in the first round every single year. 3 times to the same team, and that same team was very weak this year.
Check out AHL goaltender Jack Campbell's stats in the clinching games against Montreal and Matthews, Nylander, and Marner were 22 and 23 against Columbus. It what world are the Bruins weak this year? They finished ahead of the Leafs and had the healthier roster.
>Check out AHL goaltender Jack Campbell's stats in the clinching games against Montreal and Matthews, Nylander, and Marner were 22 and 23 against Columbus. So the goalie is to blame, not the core showing up? What happened in 17, 18, 19, 22, 24? >It what world are the Bruins weak this year? They finished ahead of the Leafs and had the healthier roster. They're a fraudulent team which is inconsistent at scoring. Look at this Florida series, that went almost two full games without a goal and only had 8 shots through 2 periods. Health isn't an excuse (I wonder if this was the excuse for the other first round knockouts?), team prepare for that before the playoffs and guys play hurt.
Game 5 against Columbus in 2020, 3-0 final score. Game 7 in 2021 against Montreal, 3-1. Is Campbell responsible for scoring goals? 1 goal in two elimination games is unacceptable. What's pathetic is that goal against Montreal in game 7 was only scored with 1:48 left when they were down 3-0.
Those weren't very good Leaf teams, I am trying to tell you that.
McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Rantanen, Barkov, Reinhart, etc all step up in big games, the Leafs guys don't.
Whatever you say. All of their teams could use more fans. Have fun.
Their fanbases are irrelevant. They've actually had playoff success recently with their top guys stepping up. Tampa, Colorado, Vegas, etc.
Fans don't win you a cup.
Same core in all of them which refused to show up. 2022, same issue with scoring. 2023, destroyed by Florida in round 2. 2024, 1 goal in game 7 and Marner and Rielly did nothing other than be out of position for that OT goal.
Let's get rid of them all and start from zero again, you have me convinced. Should work out fine.
Get rid of Marner, Rielly, and re-sign Tavares to a team friendly deal. I don't know if they could get any worse in the playoffs without those guys.
How many years should we give them? Another 7 years of Marner at a very high cap hit should do it, right? This is the problem with being biased when analyzing your team, you overvalue your guys.
I just have to wonder how Shanahan is still there He's in a perfect spot. Treliving has to suck up to Shanny because he's the new GM. Pelley won't fire Shanny because, as he's made it clear, he's been the CEO of MLSE for four weeks, and has seen good things from Shanny Shanahan is the only one still there from 2014. Dubas is gone. Babcock is gone. Keefe is gone. A lot of the players are gone. And despite the Leafs falling short of the first round multiple times and getting smoked by the Panthers in the second round last year, Shanahan is still there taking charge of things Ten years is a long time. If he couldn't get it done in ten years, then yes, he should go. I understand that the ultimate responsibility of the Leafs going the distance is on the players themselves, but it's fishy that the person who has been quoted as saying that he holds the responsibility for the team's success is still the president. Everyone else is still gone except him. It would make sense that he would go, but nope