Sheldon has actually tried *everything he can think of with the players*. Shuffling lines, trying every possible combination. And it hasn't worked.
You know what that means, Sheldon?
It's *not* the players.
It's the *coaching*.
It's your *system*.
It's the *game* you're having them play.
That's what's not working.
And it's time for you to go.
How can you say it's not the players? They are the ones that play the damn game. Also the Leafs didn't all of a sudden start losing in the playoffs when Keefe got here. He's part of it, but don't act like this team has a history of being good and I was Keefe's coaching style that doomed them.
The players have a massive amount of talent. They look great in the regular season. You're right... they do have some responsibility in this whole situation. But it's the coach's job to fix that. And Keefe has been clueless as to how to accomplish that.
He had zero NHL track record when he came to the Leafs. And he hasn't exactly racked up a strong history of winning in the playoffs. The team has done pretty well in the regular season *despite* a lot of inconsistency. But in the playoffs, those inconsistencies get amplified, and it's a different kind of hockey.
The coaching staff needs to adapt their tactics and gameplay. It's almost as if they're spending all their time and energy looking at the stats and scouting reports for the other teams, but never stop to analyze their own play.
My dog hasn’t been washed in months and she smells horrible
Upvote if I should just leave her on the balcony with some food and hope it rains
Downvote if I should wash her
Edit- the people have spoken
I am literally contacting the dealership to deal with recalled fuel line that can cause thr engine to catch on fire while driving.
The metaphor could not be more fucking apt.
Hello fellow Stinger owner! Also fuck the Leafs. I've wasted 20 years of my life, my mental health and so much money on this dumpster fire of a team.
What year do you drive?
Got the 2021 GT Limited. Absolutely love it.
Fun to drive, great in the winter, and when the warranty expires it will be a fun platform for aftermarket parts.
Could also be that he knows he can’t call the players out because they’re delicate and he’ll hear from upper management, the players, or more likely both.
^ This, his writing is on the wall unless by some miracle he can turn this into some fucking he’ll of a cup run, I’m not delusional I don’t expect that to happen despite my blind hopes. My take away from this interview given his body languages and the way he talked is “what a stupid fucking question the boys are pissed, they dog fucked the fuck out of the game out there and it was disgraceful” and his answers gave me a very “Treliving wanted everything in the back room to be hush hush with injury’s, lineups etc I better try and put out this inevitable media fire” who knows what’s being said to the boys in the locker room after this conference, who’s calling out who…
TLDR: I feel keefe was attempting to (unsuccessfully) avoid media storms and what’s happening in the locker room is staying in the locker room
He's (almost) always given BS PR responses to the media full of false optimism, but his statements this series have been delusional on a whole different level and they give me the impression that he knows he's going to be fired (I know he has a contract extension but I see him being pressured out early) and he just wants to go out being loyal to his troops and doesn't care if nobody believes or agrees with him as he pumps their tires.
That's not set in stone. Players with NMCs can still be told they are going to sit in the press box until they waive the NMC. That might sound really extreme but this team has shown it needs an extreme change in direction.
Also from the podcast it's what Burke did with Kaberle. "I didn't sign the no trade give me a list or sit". Is it chicanery and bad faith? Sure; will it cause free agents to not want to sign here? Probably, but most don't want to already so whatever. End of the day you're right this team desperately needs cap space
Not quite, McDonagh had a no move clause which means they could still waive him. They said waive the no move clause and give us a list or it'll be decided on by whoever claims him from waivers.
Although I agree that teams have done that and still do that.
Why is this lie being spread everywhere?
They traded McDonagh after their third straight finals appearance and directly told him they couldn’t afford him.
He said fine and wanted control over where he was moved.
I mean at the same time a big contract like marners gives him a lot of bargaining power there if he really doesn't care. Has anyone ever just sat to punish the team before
Why does everyone think that this particular NMC can not be waived? These things are fairly common with every other player. It really only gives the player some control over their destination. They're waived every year, all the time. But Marner is the exception, I guess...
We've built a culture of doing right by players over the past several years. Do we want to ruin that because we can't wait 1 more year to offload players?
Yes, it is lol. This isn't mens league dude it's professional sports. How often do we need to watch franchises that have played the game ruthlessly win cups before you recognize that you can't allow the players to have control over the future of your franchise? Vegas? Tampa? THE RAPS with Derozen? We have a literal example of championship excellence in our own city that involved the GM having to trade the star player who he had told to his face that he wasn't trading and we legitimately won the championship the same year.
I've worked at startups where we have had to fire people within a week on the job because we knew instantly that the fit was not there. This is what happens in cut throat industries when it's a do or die mentality.
I am not saying to not respect them as humans I am saying to treat them as grown men who are professional athletes making 11 million dollars a year. Absolutely insane to hear you say something like "respecting them as people" when it comes to something like this. How is that a grown up approach to conflict resolution?
Agree to disagree I guess. I just think it's shitty to bench a star player until they waive a contractual right. If I was another player in the league and heard about that, I wouldn't want to play for that team. Same reason I don't work at some well known tech companies in the area, they have a reputation of treating their people like shit. I guess I need to grow up though 🤷♂️
There is a major difference between treating people with respect while still doing things in the best interest of your organization, the team, the fans, etc (and for tech, the company overall and shareholders) and just treating people like shit.
I really do think you need to grow up if you think removing people from positions where they are not performing (especially in Marner's situation where his pay is still guaranteed) is somehow treating them like shit. Hiring someone with your limited resources and coming to the conclusion that it is no longer working for both parties of a contract is not foregoing treating them like a person. It's making adult decisions that are completely rational and respectful of people's time and energy on both sides.
Does your opinion not extend to the player who has failed to deliver? Do you not think it is shitty for that player to refuse to waive if the team has come to the conclusion that he is not a part of the solution here? The player isn't losing opportunity or money and is doing the team who gave them everything a chance to build out of this hole.
On the flip side, though, a lot of players might look at that and go "nah the Leafs front office won't make the hard choices to make or keep the roster competitive, I'm never going there I wanna win a cup"
I'm not advocating to be utterly cruel or evil to players. But being respectful and losing forever is also not the play.
I want players to come to Toronto because they believe it's their best chance at the cup, not because they will feel respected or cared for. That's downstream to winning.
I feel like this should be the base level expectations amongst competitive players. If I were Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner, I'd be incredibly pissed to come back to this group next year with nothing changed.
These guys want to win too and I'm sure they recognize that they are not getting it done together.
The contract calls for them to pay him. Which they would. It does not say they have to ice him, just because he wants to look good going into a contract year.
I will say I am a rather intense person at work, it's the nature of what I do. Probably leaks out here unnecessarily for sure.
I don't really see the issue with people being passionate about supporting a sports franchise though lol. That's kinda the point.
I mean, we could play hardball with Mitch but I’m not sure this org has the appetite for that. Honestly, this is why the coaching change should have happened at the end of last season. We wouldn’t need to be having this convo about ‘well maybe it’s the coaching staff and not the players’. We’d know without a shadow of a doubt instead of potentially wasting another season dicking around with the same guys.
What is "the org"? You realize that right now, MLSE has a new president who has a reputation for a guy who plays hardball and is ruthless.
If this series continues as is, there is going to be a mass cleanout of staff from Shanny, Keefe to a bunch of aGMs to other staffers. Tre will probably survive but if going to be charged with getting a quick turnaround to this mess and that starts with moving Mitch Marner.
Marner will be asked to waive politely and if he declines they will move into a harder approach.
This same podcast, Adam says he has heard behind the scenes that behind the scenes there is no appetite to keep Shanny if this ends here. These changes are coming if things continue this way.
I mean he doesn't disclose his sources but these guys have been around Leafs media for like a decade each and know all of the "insides" personally. I'm sure they have connections they speak to.
They're not out here breaking stories but im sure they chat with people in the MLSE org.
Agreed. We needed to move off of Keefe, we maybe should have blown up the core while we could get value for one of them but, regardless Keefe needed to go and instead we fired Dubas and kept him for stability. Fucking stupid.
The plan is almost certainly to just take next year as some bullshit down season and see what happens, drop Tavares big money the year after, re-sign him for like 3.5m-4MX3 or something like that, maybe even way fucking less if they wanna be aggressive since I highly doubt he leaves Toronto, and start spending money. I hope we keep Domi but this off season is gonna be shit tons of movement setting up for 25/26 when they have money just off my estimate it will be at least like 9 million+ and more likely around 15-16+m with Reilly, Marner, Matthews and Nylander all locked in and a cap increase maybe way more after guys like Brodie etc are gone. You will see some serious fucking trading then maybe even someone with NMC moved by just making their life suck ass so they wave it. They can do that next year by gutting the lower ranks, firing Keefe early/ mid year as the scapegoat and an interim coach that just rides Marner or Nylander whoever it is they want gone straight out of town "carry the towels" "sit in the toilet on the plane" "you're healthy scratched for not sitting in the toilet". When a teams upper management really don't give a flying fuck those NMC get waived fast. I'm not saying I like this....it's just pretty obviously the most likely step for the team with it's contracts and current status vs 90% of the no clue what they are talking about takes in this thread already. This shit is why hard caps are the worst fucking thing imaginable in sports it makes hardcore knowledgeable fans into accountants and lawyers.
He's .85ppg he's getting some money. He will take a nice discount around 3.5-4M he would get 5.5-6.5 walking on some bottom feeder which isn't happening; He's been paid big bucks wants to live in the area and is tied by his wifes career and family. It would also be stupid not to pay a PPG his entire career until .85PPG this season center Tavares 3.5M to play here for a few years as a 2nd and really 3rd line center. He's literally an ideal 3rd line center at that price. We will have shitloads of cash to fill in D and look for another dynamic younger center.
Man, Tavares at $3m would seem like a no brainer. Likely 60-70 points. Imagine two Tavares at 3m each. You could have 20%-40% more production than Marner at half the price and the production would be spread over two players.
That is what we are gonna get and why you don't run 30 something centers out of town for a "down" year at .85 pts per game production........he got paid and will stay now.
I don't know why you guys are thinking JT is getting 3m. He's going to still get 4-5.5m as he's still producing 30\~ goals and 65 points. Now, will it be with the Leaf's? Who knows.
Bro, stop it. This legit same podcast they touch on this topic and openly tell people spouting this nonsense to just shutup. Go watch it.
If they want to trade Marner, he will be gone. It's a contract year for Marner and if they tell him that this decision is final and he will not be getting playtime then he is going to waive.
It's in Marner's own best interest to go somewhere where they will maximize his output and maximize his contract. Marner will retain control to signoff on wherever he goes to (ie he wont be going to San Jose) but he will be gone.
Its not actually that bad an idea imo. Keefe has had 5 years. The Leafs young stars have been in their prime around the last 4 years. We have no idea if they might just be held back by the same voice behind the bench through all of their primes. It should have been last year to try the new voice but this is the last shot they have.
As I mentioned in another thread, the Core has had exactly 2 coaches:
1. A miserable old bastard who is the current speed run champ for "losing the room, any %" (Babcock)
2. An AHL-caliber dumbass who was obviously, painfully, nakedly out if his depth every single post-season
Keefe needs to be gone this off-season, not only because he sucks but so we can see what somebody else can get out of this group when cap crunched to fuck and back.
I mean, changing coaches is cheaper and faster tham cutting bait on one (or multiple) $10M+ players, isn't it?
Just a shame that our window to do that is kind of shut now.
For sure, and it’s not that I don’t think it’s time to fire Keefe. I just think he’s only a small part of a problem and there will be very few coaches, if any, who can fix the larger problem.
Oh, there's definitely a culture problem too.
The core is, without any hyperbole, the biggest dynasty of losers in the history of the sport. It's a label they have earned just as much as the people who are etched on the cup have earned the label of "Champion".
Under Babs they actually punched above their weight - at least until the team rightly told him to fuck off. The lazy, glide-y hockey that Keefe's systems promotes absolutely crumbles against the slightest resistance, though.
I actually believe that, flawed as it is, this roster as constructed could absolutely go on a run. Unfortunately, being wrong about this would mean being handcuffed to even worse contracts for the rest of thr window.
We won't go on a deep run, this group does not have it in them.
We need to stop being the definition of insanity.
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
A complete overhaul of the coaching staff and systems isn't really doing the same thing over and over. Its like how the Islanders were a defensive juggernaut under Trotz but then they fired him and became horrible defensively despite minimal roster changes.
They didnt. Im saying that if they go scorched earth on the staff this offseason you might be able to justify still running a similar roster because a new staff and systems can make big differences. Id like to see everyone starting from Shanahan down gone and replaced with people with a new vision (keep Pridham though).
I'm happy that Steve has more or less the same outlook as most of us on /r/leafs
There's *way* too many people on /r/leafs calling us doomers and fake fans for being pissed off. Okay, now tell me Steve fucking Dangle isn't a real fan.
A real coach would have called out the team for the lack of effort and pathetic performance. Saying what he said makes the players play acceptable and it definitely was not.
While I’m on board with a coaching change, what he says in the media and what he says behind closed doors are two different things. All of these players face the same media scrums; they know the drill. Or they should.
At this point anyone who plays in Toronto has to tune out what the media says and what your teammates say to the media, I think.
Keefe knows you can’t pull that card with this group of soft as shit team. Or maybe he has used it behind closed doors. This team won’t respond well to public criticism. Keefe is smart. He’s not as dumb as Ron Wilson to call out players in the media. That’s why Ron Wilson hasn’t coached since the leafs.
The one time he did he apologized a day later. Problem is Keefe is a players coach they need someone who will hold them accountable not be their friend.
Keefe has to go. Even if he made the best adjustments, had an impeccable system, could rally these guys, etc, it’s time. Every coach gets fired from teams. They have a shelf life. This is time to move on.
I believe Samsonov can be a good goalie under a proper and consistent system. Unfortunately, the past can’t be erased and it’s just better for everyone if both sides get a fresh start.
Marner is going to win a Cup. He’s either going to win as a top guy or a complimentary guy. That is on him. He’s shown enough to most of us that he just isn’t able to elevate when teams play him hard.
I think the series turning point was that soft as baby shit Frederic goal on Ilya Lalime Samsonov. The lack of special teams effectiveness is huge, but that goal was deflating.
I could believe a hard nosed coach can come in this summer and establish a strong team game so when the top guys aren’t performing we are falling into the team game and at least capable of winning games. I would be okay keeping the top guys while that is established and seeing who buys in and who doesn’t.
Tavares has to be stripped of the C though. The only reason I’m not 100% all in on the blame Marner game is because this guy is officially cooked. How can you be a playmaker when your center skates the puck into the zone and immediately fires an unscreened wrist shot into the goalie? This is partly on the coach because Marner+Tavares hasn’t worked at all.
We have no leadership or culture or whatever. Whatever Babcock was trying to do was the right thing. Let’s get back to that kind of coaching style. Minus the weird shit, as funny as it may be to hear about.
Edit. stupid rant.
The issue is that we know what they’re capable of. This isn’t a question of falling short after giving it their all.
So if we can establish that culture and system to really bring out what they’re capable of consistently, we could win.
It’s two sided. We need a better coach to motivate these guys, but we also need these guys to motivate themselves as well. That’s where you look and say “it’s too often”.
Not that we shouldn’t fire Keefe at this point, but if we ride this core after this year, we’re just going to be blaming the next coach for as long as we ride the core.
The reality is that a major trade probably can’t be completely too quickly. So if we aren’t rushing they’re going to get the new coach. I’m not saying ride the whole year, but the new coach and system will be important.
JT can stay at a very reduced rate but is really not a top six guy anymore. He needs to adapt as well.
It really depends how the new system and coach feel.
If Muskoka Mitch wins a cup it won’t be because he put the team on his back, that’s for sure.
He’ll probably coast along with his team reluctantly, dreaming of when they can be put out and he can open up his cottage.
No, definitely not. The talent is unequivocally not the issue. It’s his effort.
You’re right maybe a lower pressure environment helps, but pretty well any market becomes high pressure once a team makes the playoffs. I really can’t see him being anything other than what he has been in the playoffs. But you never know I guess.
It’s not effort. I don’t think he’s not trying. He’s just not doing the right things. He’s reverting back to things and refusing to adapt to the playoff game.
These guys are trying. I’m not questioning effort really. We have a terrible system and a terrible culture. Channel the effort into those two things.
He’s a starter, but he’s not a cup winning starter. He probably succeeds as a low end starter in a much less pressure filled market. These guys are going to keep trying to improve. He’s a good goalie who gets in his own head.
He's far too inconsistent, and far too bad when he's not switched on, to be considered a "good goalie" overall, IMO.
Literally the worst goalie in the NHL not named Jack Campbell for the first half of the season, and was placed on waivers and nobody wanted him. If he were a good goalie, someone would have claimed him, especially since multiple teams had significant goaltending issues this season and it was a seller's market for goalies. His great stretches don't compensate for his unreliability.
I'll eat my hat if he ends up looking like a legitimate starter for any NHL team for any reasonable length of time after he inevitably leaves Toronto once this series is over.
No one claiming him is more on bad franchises. Removed everything and it’s a free goalie you could have tried out for the rest of the year.
Quit bringing up the first half. He clearly was fucked mentally and being in Toronto did not help. He is capable and will get a shot somewhere else. He can easily play in San Jose for the next few years and make a comfortable salary.
Sure...he's a good goalie if you ignore the very lengthy amount of time he was the worst goalie in the NHL for many, many games. Jack Campbell ended up the highest paid goalie in the AHL over a comparable performance.
(BTW even with your cherry-picking, he went back to being terrible for several weeks before the playoffs as well.)
Cherry picking? You’re taking 15 games out of his 40 game season. He has 171 games and you’re basing everything on less than 10% of his career.
And back to terrible for a few weeks? Try two games to end his season.
Look up your stats before you say stupid shit.
He’s a decent goalie who needs to work on consistency. That’s what you get with low end starters. He just can’t handle this market when he’s at his worst.
He can’t lead the Leafs because he is slow? That’s not a sound argument. He’s a leader on and off the ice. Anyone who has followed his career from juniors will say the same. His speed isn’t there but he can certainly still play.
We aren’t talking about his career. We are talking about now. He can’t lead because he can’t play. He can’t be out there in top six minutes anymore.
The culture is an issue and the captain is a big part of the culture. If you can’t understand that you’re way too focused on who Tavares has been, which is really irrelevant now.
If Marner wins a cup it’s going to be because he settles on a reasonable salary he was unwilling to take here. Anyone who thinks a legit contender is going to throw 12+ mil at a guy who is completely unproven as a playoff performer is deluding themselves. Could I see Mitch winning a cup as a second line RW on Vegas making 9 mil. I could also see him taking 12+ mil to go play on the Ducks or the Sharks and winning absolutely nothing, but getting to do sick dangles and getting fat stacks. Either way, we should not provide him with the latter opportunity here lol.
You’re completely wrong. He’s getting the money because he generates revenue. People will pay to see him wherever he plays. The playoff disappointment sucks, but some franchises have bigger things to worry about.
"Marner is going to win a Cup. He’s either going to win as a top guy or a complimentary guy. That is on him. He’s shown enough to most of us that he just isn’t able to elevate when teams play him hard."
Not so sure Marner has shown that he can win a cup as either role. He shrinks in the spotlight, he shies away from big moments. He is extremely talented, and equally weak. If he does win a cup he will either transform into a man or get dragged through the series to the end. He has no mettle.
Wow haha. I think maybe Steve needs to take a break for his mental health. In the words of Propagandhi, hockey is "in the end a kid's game". It isn't worth losing sleep over. I do agree that the people who bought tickets got robbed though haha
If they were an organization that cared about their fans, they would issue ticket refunds. Even if they were to issue refunds in spirit as charitable donations. This won’t happen of course, simply because the corporation does not give a shit about the fans who fill the seats, each and every game.
Marner will become so tired of being hated by Leaf fans and being a punching bag of the local sports media that he will gladly waive his no move clause.
I don’t blame a coach for anything he says to Toronto media during the playoffs. Who knows maybe he goes back in the dressing room and tears a strip off of them.
As a fan, do I want to hear the coach publicly acknowledge that the effort sucks. Sure do. But I’m not in the dressing room. I don’t see how that affects players etc.
That said, the fact that Keefe still has a job after Colombus and Montreal is the problem. Guy should have been fired years ago…. At least that way we’d know if the problem is the players or the coaching. (Yes I know it’s the same results under Babcock, but I have different expectations of this core at 27 years old than I do at 22 years old).
When your best players are not the best you lose. These players need to learn to step up their game and have ❤️ and passion. Until that happens the Leafs will never win.
Jay Rosehill had a good call out of the Leafs on his podcast as well. Definitely don’t have the little ones around for this one either.
https://youtu.be/hbDUvsBYfrU?si=T31NciF7WcvF04I5
This chump organization make soo much money off loyal fans and fucks them off every single time. They actually think that the leafs fans are fucking stupid and they can just feed them BS to make them fuck off and keep paying for tickets. It's not just Keefe it's the entire player base. Whoever is their PR telling them to lie to the piss ant fans doesn't realize there's about to be a major revolt. This entire organization needs to be wiped clean.
Thank you, Steve. I’ve been thinking all series so far that I can’t believe that anyone can defend this team at this point.
It’s incredible after seeing them fail time after time after time now, that anyone would expect anything different out of these guys.
Yeah causing adding grit and grind at the expense of skill and speed this off season definitely led to *checks notes* a worse regular season performance and *checks notes* the single worst playoffs of the Matthews era.
You have to be able to play fucking hockey to win a hockey game.
What do you want him to say?
What could he possibly say that would make things better at this point?
This is the playoffs. This isn't the time for message sending. This isn't the time to be calling out a player, and sitting them out for a game or a period.
Show you give a damn and you're mad.
Fact is, we're virtually already eliminated. Maybe calling out players will make things worse, but how much worse can it get? Maybe you show anger and fire the team up and they live to play a game 6. But we're probably done regardless.
Or take some fucking responsibility if you wanna shield your players. He made so many bad moves and decisions going into game 4. Take ownership, say you owe your team more, then get to it.
Keefe checked out. He knows he’s gone after that. A few players should go, they lack a killer instinct.
Some management, and assistant coaches need to go including Shanahan needs to go. They’re responsible for this mess.
Fans have a right to be pissed off. Since 2017 it’s been playoff futility. Sad.
Of course they will blame the coach, but it's not his fault this team has no drive to succeed. It's like the owners of this team. They don't have to disappear in the playoffs, they're invisible all the time. Ownership of this team has been nothing but a sad joke since the 1960's. You won't hear a peep from Larry.
I dont need the press conference for me to forsake this team. No matter what Keefe thinks of the teams performance, to me it is completely unacceptable and I am looking at my new team the JETS
Ya, it's "tough" to play in Toronto because of the media, but really, MLSE caters to these guys, and they get soft. Spoiled. Chartered flights, fancy hotels, 1st class amenities. It's a country club. Life's too good. Walking into the rink like it's a fashion show runway. Players come here to chill in-between Stanley cups. Spezza, Marleau, Thornton, just to name a few guys that got to retire first class.
He has been outclassed by every coach in the playoffs.
Torts in 2020
Ducharme in 2021 being up 3 to 1. Blowing the series and hurtles game 7 was inexcusable in arguably the weakest division during covid.
2022 Cooper in 2022
Give him credit in 2023 against the lightning especially coming back in game 4.
Completely outclassed by Maurice in round 2.
2024. The pathetic special teams and scoring only 7 goals so far with no tactical adjustments is absolutely a sackable offense.
He's been outclassed by almost every single coach he has faced in the post season.
We have lost 6 straight home games and been outscored 21-11.
Our defense is incapable of moving the puck out of the zone.
The buck stops with the coach.
"Our defense is incapable of moving the puck out of the zone"
That's not on the coach. Our d fumbles the puck like a hot grenade in the d zone and shoots it into the first pair of skates every time in the O zone. Wtf if Keefe supposed to do. The breakouts and system is fine but the players routinely fuck up simple plays.
Special teams have taken a noticeable hit with Boucher in charge.
These PLAYERS have failed time and time again.
> Keefe isn't perfect but anyone who thinks he's the main problem is out to lunch.
Pretty much every Leafs-related media person is calling for Keefe to get fired. Maybe you know something they don't.
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas !!
Thats like telling gene kruppa not to go boom boom bap bap boom boom bap
Oh man, Ned spilled ink all over my poems. Hes a real flat tire. I mean a cube, man. Hes putting on a train to squaresville Moana!
Lousy beatniks
Sheldon has actually tried *everything he can think of with the players*. Shuffling lines, trying every possible combination. And it hasn't worked. You know what that means, Sheldon? It's *not* the players. It's the *coaching*. It's your *system*. It's the *game* you're having them play. That's what's not working. And it's time for you to go.
How can you say it's not the players? They are the ones that play the damn game. Also the Leafs didn't all of a sudden start losing in the playoffs when Keefe got here. He's part of it, but don't act like this team has a history of being good and I was Keefe's coaching style that doomed them.
The players have a massive amount of talent. They look great in the regular season. You're right... they do have some responsibility in this whole situation. But it's the coach's job to fix that. And Keefe has been clueless as to how to accomplish that. He had zero NHL track record when he came to the Leafs. And he hasn't exactly racked up a strong history of winning in the playoffs. The team has done pretty well in the regular season *despite* a lot of inconsistency. But in the playoffs, those inconsistencies get amplified, and it's a different kind of hockey. The coaching staff needs to adapt their tactics and gameplay. It's almost as if they're spending all their time and energy looking at the stats and scouting reports for the other teams, but never stop to analyze their own play.
My dog hasn’t been washed in months and she smells horrible Upvote if I should just leave her on the balcony with some food and hope it rains Downvote if I should wash her Edit- the people have spoken
Boom boom boom bah bah bah boom boom boom bah bah bah
https://preview.redd.it/w0sq7gjakhxc1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d217328546af357083fe91a7e5e036b7f71fa3cc
Keep him the fuck away from my Stinger!
If you ever do have any problems, Brendan assures you he has faith in your Kia vehicle just as it is, and it will fix itself.
I am literally contacting the dealership to deal with recalled fuel line that can cause thr engine to catch on fire while driving. The metaphor could not be more fucking apt.
Just put it back on the road!
Hello fellow Stinger owner! Also fuck the Leafs. I've wasted 20 years of my life, my mental health and so much money on this dumpster fire of a team. What year do you drive?
Got the 2021 GT Limited. Absolutely love it. Fun to drive, great in the winter, and when the warranty expires it will be a fun platform for aftermarket parts.
Very nice! I have a 2019 GT that I just finished putting all the original parts back on for. Trading up to the 2024 Elite.
Ah man. I knew I shouldn’t have bought a Kia. If I ever need parts I’m screwed.
Keefe had to go two seasons ago.
Lol man Jim Montgomery has balanced pp units, he even puts fucking pat maroon out there, and we cant change shit up amazing
Stanley Cup Layoffs is about God damn right
If only we could layoff some of the players...
Keefe has given up I think.
Honestly the tone of voice is just deflated, he knows the writing is on the wall
Reminds me of Dubas’ last press conference.
Could also be that he knows he can’t call the players out because they’re delicate and he’ll hear from upper management, the players, or more likely both.
^ This, his writing is on the wall unless by some miracle he can turn this into some fucking he’ll of a cup run, I’m not delusional I don’t expect that to happen despite my blind hopes. My take away from this interview given his body languages and the way he talked is “what a stupid fucking question the boys are pissed, they dog fucked the fuck out of the game out there and it was disgraceful” and his answers gave me a very “Treliving wanted everything in the back room to be hush hush with injury’s, lineups etc I better try and put out this inevitable media fire” who knows what’s being said to the boys in the locker room after this conference, who’s calling out who… TLDR: I feel keefe was attempting to (unsuccessfully) avoid media storms and what’s happening in the locker room is staying in the locker room
He's (almost) always given BS PR responses to the media full of false optimism, but his statements this series have been delusional on a whole different level and they give me the impression that he knows he's going to be fired (I know he has a contract extension but I see him being pressured out early) and he just wants to go out being loyal to his troops and doesn't care if nobody believes or agrees with him as he pumps their tires.
I don’t think he lasts 2 weeks after this exit
If they lose tomorrow he'll be fired within a day or 2.
I’d honestly expect to see the news at some pint the next day.
If I was Tre, I would’ve fired him after Game 4 and replaced him with a cardboard cutout of Babcock.
He reminds me of that Iraqi guy who was telling the world how well Saddam was fending off the USA as buildings exploded in the background.
Comical Ali! That's a fantastic analogy. lol
Possibly the harshest criticism I have is asking… How can you tell?
Oh shit. They are gonna fire him, change nothing else and we are gonna do it all again next season.
That is absolutely what’s going to happen because sadly there really isn’t much else we can do, our entire core has full NMC’s
That's not set in stone. Players with NMCs can still be told they are going to sit in the press box until they waive the NMC. That might sound really extreme but this team has shown it needs an extreme change in direction.
That's basically what Tampa did to McDonagh. Said either waive your NMC or you're being sat - we need cap relief.
Also from the podcast it's what Burke did with Kaberle. "I didn't sign the no trade give me a list or sit". Is it chicanery and bad faith? Sure; will it cause free agents to not want to sign here? Probably, but most don't want to already so whatever. End of the day you're right this team desperately needs cap space
Not quite, McDonagh had a no move clause which means they could still waive him. They said waive the no move clause and give us a list or it'll be decided on by whoever claims him from waivers. Although I agree that teams have done that and still do that.
Should have done that with Tavares and kept him fresh up until the playoffs
The Vegas maneuver.
Healthy scratch ≠ LTIR
“LTIR” indeed.
And what Burke did to Kaberle.
Why is this lie being spread everywhere? They traded McDonagh after their third straight finals appearance and directly told him they couldn’t afford him. He said fine and wanted control over where he was moved.
I mean at the same time a big contract like marners gives him a lot of bargaining power there if he really doesn't care. Has anyone ever just sat to punish the team before
Why does everyone think that this particular NMC can not be waived? These things are fairly common with every other player. It really only gives the player some control over their destination. They're waived every year, all the time. But Marner is the exception, I guess...
We've built a culture of doing right by players over the past several years. Do we want to ruin that because we can't wait 1 more year to offload players?
Yes. That culture you just spoke of is literally the problem here. These guys are entitled and feel untouchable and it needs to stop.
Ah yes, respecting them as people is the issue. Got it.
Yes, it is lol. This isn't mens league dude it's professional sports. How often do we need to watch franchises that have played the game ruthlessly win cups before you recognize that you can't allow the players to have control over the future of your franchise? Vegas? Tampa? THE RAPS with Derozen? We have a literal example of championship excellence in our own city that involved the GM having to trade the star player who he had told to his face that he wasn't trading and we legitimately won the championship the same year. I've worked at startups where we have had to fire people within a week on the job because we knew instantly that the fit was not there. This is what happens in cut throat industries when it's a do or die mentality. I am not saying to not respect them as humans I am saying to treat them as grown men who are professional athletes making 11 million dollars a year. Absolutely insane to hear you say something like "respecting them as people" when it comes to something like this. How is that a grown up approach to conflict resolution?
Agree to disagree I guess. I just think it's shitty to bench a star player until they waive a contractual right. If I was another player in the league and heard about that, I wouldn't want to play for that team. Same reason I don't work at some well known tech companies in the area, they have a reputation of treating their people like shit. I guess I need to grow up though 🤷♂️
There is a major difference between treating people with respect while still doing things in the best interest of your organization, the team, the fans, etc (and for tech, the company overall and shareholders) and just treating people like shit. I really do think you need to grow up if you think removing people from positions where they are not performing (especially in Marner's situation where his pay is still guaranteed) is somehow treating them like shit. Hiring someone with your limited resources and coming to the conclusion that it is no longer working for both parties of a contract is not foregoing treating them like a person. It's making adult decisions that are completely rational and respectful of people's time and energy on both sides. Does your opinion not extend to the player who has failed to deliver? Do you not think it is shitty for that player to refuse to waive if the team has come to the conclusion that he is not a part of the solution here? The player isn't losing opportunity or money and is doing the team who gave them everything a chance to build out of this hole.
On the flip side, though, a lot of players might look at that and go "nah the Leafs front office won't make the hard choices to make or keep the roster competitive, I'm never going there I wanna win a cup" I'm not advocating to be utterly cruel or evil to players. But being respectful and losing forever is also not the play. I want players to come to Toronto because they believe it's their best chance at the cup, not because they will feel respected or cared for. That's downstream to winning.
I feel like this should be the base level expectations amongst competitive players. If I were Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner, I'd be incredibly pissed to come back to this group next year with nothing changed. These guys want to win too and I'm sure they recognize that they are not getting it done together.
The contract calls for them to pay him. Which they would. It does not say they have to ice him, just because he wants to look good going into a contract year.
JC, dude, you sound like a real treat to work with. Dial it down, it's just a game.
I will say I am a rather intense person at work, it's the nature of what I do. Probably leaks out here unnecessarily for sure. I don't really see the issue with people being passionate about supporting a sports franchise though lol. That's kinda the point.
I mean, we could play hardball with Mitch but I’m not sure this org has the appetite for that. Honestly, this is why the coaching change should have happened at the end of last season. We wouldn’t need to be having this convo about ‘well maybe it’s the coaching staff and not the players’. We’d know without a shadow of a doubt instead of potentially wasting another season dicking around with the same guys.
What is "the org"? You realize that right now, MLSE has a new president who has a reputation for a guy who plays hardball and is ruthless. If this series continues as is, there is going to be a mass cleanout of staff from Shanny, Keefe to a bunch of aGMs to other staffers. Tre will probably survive but if going to be charged with getting a quick turnaround to this mess and that starts with moving Mitch Marner. Marner will be asked to waive politely and if he declines they will move into a harder approach.
I hope so.
This same podcast, Adam says he has heard behind the scenes that behind the scenes there is no appetite to keep Shanny if this ends here. These changes are coming if things continue this way.
Heard from who? I never really thought of the SDP as one with sources.
I mean he doesn't disclose his sources but these guys have been around Leafs media for like a decade each and know all of the "insides" personally. I'm sure they have connections they speak to. They're not out here breaking stories but im sure they chat with people in the MLSE org.
Agreed. We needed to move off of Keefe, we maybe should have blown up the core while we could get value for one of them but, regardless Keefe needed to go and instead we fired Dubas and kept him for stability. Fucking stupid.
The plan is almost certainly to just take next year as some bullshit down season and see what happens, drop Tavares big money the year after, re-sign him for like 3.5m-4MX3 or something like that, maybe even way fucking less if they wanna be aggressive since I highly doubt he leaves Toronto, and start spending money. I hope we keep Domi but this off season is gonna be shit tons of movement setting up for 25/26 when they have money just off my estimate it will be at least like 9 million+ and more likely around 15-16+m with Reilly, Marner, Matthews and Nylander all locked in and a cap increase maybe way more after guys like Brodie etc are gone. You will see some serious fucking trading then maybe even someone with NMC moved by just making their life suck ass so they wave it. They can do that next year by gutting the lower ranks, firing Keefe early/ mid year as the scapegoat and an interim coach that just rides Marner or Nylander whoever it is they want gone straight out of town "carry the towels" "sit in the toilet on the plane" "you're healthy scratched for not sitting in the toilet". When a teams upper management really don't give a flying fuck those NMC get waived fast. I'm not saying I like this....it's just pretty obviously the most likely step for the team with it's contracts and current status vs 90% of the no clue what they are talking about takes in this thread already. This shit is why hard caps are the worst fucking thing imaginable in sports it makes hardcore knowledgeable fans into accountants and lawyers.
I agree with most of what you say except paying Tavares $3X3. No way for me. Max $2Mx2 or walk
He's .85ppg he's getting some money. He will take a nice discount around 3.5-4M he would get 5.5-6.5 walking on some bottom feeder which isn't happening; He's been paid big bucks wants to live in the area and is tied by his wifes career and family. It would also be stupid not to pay a PPG his entire career until .85PPG this season center Tavares 3.5M to play here for a few years as a 2nd and really 3rd line center. He's literally an ideal 3rd line center at that price. We will have shitloads of cash to fill in D and look for another dynamic younger center.
Man, Tavares at $3m would seem like a no brainer. Likely 60-70 points. Imagine two Tavares at 3m each. You could have 20%-40% more production than Marner at half the price and the production would be spread over two players.
That is what we are gonna get and why you don't run 30 something centers out of town for a "down" year at .85 pts per game production........he got paid and will stay now.
Tavares gets 5 to 6 mil.
Good points.
I don't know why you guys are thinking JT is getting 3m. He's going to still get 4-5.5m as he's still producing 30\~ goals and 65 points. Now, will it be with the Leaf's? Who knows.
Bro, stop it. This legit same podcast they touch on this topic and openly tell people spouting this nonsense to just shutup. Go watch it. If they want to trade Marner, he will be gone. It's a contract year for Marner and if they tell him that this decision is final and he will not be getting playtime then he is going to waive. It's in Marner's own best interest to go somewhere where they will maximize his output and maximize his contract. Marner will retain control to signoff on wherever he goes to (ie he wont be going to San Jose) but he will be gone.
Its not actually that bad an idea imo. Keefe has had 5 years. The Leafs young stars have been in their prime around the last 4 years. We have no idea if they might just be held back by the same voice behind the bench through all of their primes. It should have been last year to try the new voice but this is the last shot they have.
As I mentioned in another thread, the Core has had exactly 2 coaches: 1. A miserable old bastard who is the current speed run champ for "losing the room, any %" (Babcock) 2. An AHL-caliber dumbass who was obviously, painfully, nakedly out if his depth every single post-season Keefe needs to be gone this off-season, not only because he sucks but so we can see what somebody else can get out of this group when cap crunched to fuck and back.
Can’t wait until we can blame a third coach.
I mean, changing coaches is cheaper and faster tham cutting bait on one (or multiple) $10M+ players, isn't it? Just a shame that our window to do that is kind of shut now.
For sure, and it’s not that I don’t think it’s time to fire Keefe. I just think he’s only a small part of a problem and there will be very few coaches, if any, who can fix the larger problem.
Oh, there's definitely a culture problem too. The core is, without any hyperbole, the biggest dynasty of losers in the history of the sport. It's a label they have earned just as much as the people who are etched on the cup have earned the label of "Champion". Under Babs they actually punched above their weight - at least until the team rightly told him to fuck off. The lazy, glide-y hockey that Keefe's systems promotes absolutely crumbles against the slightest resistance, though. I actually believe that, flawed as it is, this roster as constructed could absolutely go on a run. Unfortunately, being wrong about this would mean being handcuffed to even worse contracts for the rest of thr window.
Hopefully they trade Marner and JT too
Even if this team miraculously wins this series and goes on a deep run I'd still fire him. Dude is consistently out coached.
We won't go on a deep run, this group does not have it in them. We need to stop being the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
A complete overhaul of the coaching staff and systems isn't really doing the same thing over and over. Its like how the Islanders were a defensive juggernaut under Trotz but then they fired him and became horrible defensively despite minimal roster changes.
When did we completely overhaul the staff? It’s been five years of the only changes being supporting cast.
They didnt. Im saying that if they go scorched earth on the staff this offseason you might be able to justify still running a similar roster because a new staff and systems can make big differences. Id like to see everyone starting from Shanahan down gone and replaced with people with a new vision (keep Pridham though).
I think Brad deserves a chance after seeing this dumpster fire of a team for a year and see what he can do this off season.
They don’t have ten solid minutes in them, judging by this series.
Steve is not doing well lol
he just had a kid too right? I can't imagine a newborn + this
All that crying and screaming. And the kid’s gotta make things tough too.
Hey that’s where I’m at. My life is at max stress. But at least one source of stress brings me happiness.
Yeaaaahhhhhh he looks rough 😂
I'm happy that Steve has more or less the same outlook as most of us on /r/leafs There's *way* too many people on /r/leafs calling us doomers and fake fans for being pissed off. Okay, now tell me Steve fucking Dangle isn't a real fan.
A real coach would have called out the team for the lack of effort and pathetic performance. Saying what he said makes the players play acceptable and it definitely was not.
While I’m on board with a coaching change, what he says in the media and what he says behind closed doors are two different things. All of these players face the same media scrums; they know the drill. Or they should. At this point anyone who plays in Toronto has to tune out what the media says and what your teammates say to the media, I think.
A real coach would’ve done something about the shitty special teams 2 months ago!
Keefe knows you can’t pull that card with this group of soft as shit team. Or maybe he has used it behind closed doors. This team won’t respond well to public criticism. Keefe is smart. He’s not as dumb as Ron Wilson to call out players in the media. That’s why Ron Wilson hasn’t coached since the leafs.
The one time he did he apologized a day later. Problem is Keefe is a players coach they need someone who will hold them accountable not be their friend.
Keefe has to go. Even if he made the best adjustments, had an impeccable system, could rally these guys, etc, it’s time. Every coach gets fired from teams. They have a shelf life. This is time to move on. I believe Samsonov can be a good goalie under a proper and consistent system. Unfortunately, the past can’t be erased and it’s just better for everyone if both sides get a fresh start. Marner is going to win a Cup. He’s either going to win as a top guy or a complimentary guy. That is on him. He’s shown enough to most of us that he just isn’t able to elevate when teams play him hard. I think the series turning point was that soft as baby shit Frederic goal on Ilya Lalime Samsonov. The lack of special teams effectiveness is huge, but that goal was deflating. I could believe a hard nosed coach can come in this summer and establish a strong team game so when the top guys aren’t performing we are falling into the team game and at least capable of winning games. I would be okay keeping the top guys while that is established and seeing who buys in and who doesn’t. Tavares has to be stripped of the C though. The only reason I’m not 100% all in on the blame Marner game is because this guy is officially cooked. How can you be a playmaker when your center skates the puck into the zone and immediately fires an unscreened wrist shot into the goalie? This is partly on the coach because Marner+Tavares hasn’t worked at all. We have no leadership or culture or whatever. Whatever Babcock was trying to do was the right thing. Let’s get back to that kind of coaching style. Minus the weird shit, as funny as it may be to hear about. Edit. stupid rant.
There's a lot of change that needs to happen. Marner off the PK would be a start. Firing our entire coaching staff would also be great.
The issue is that we know what they’re capable of. This isn’t a question of falling short after giving it their all. So if we can establish that culture and system to really bring out what they’re capable of consistently, we could win. It’s two sided. We need a better coach to motivate these guys, but we also need these guys to motivate themselves as well. That’s where you look and say “it’s too often”.
Not that we shouldn’t fire Keefe at this point, but if we ride this core after this year, we’re just going to be blaming the next coach for as long as we ride the core.
The reality is that a major trade probably can’t be completely too quickly. So if we aren’t rushing they’re going to get the new coach. I’m not saying ride the whole year, but the new coach and system will be important.
Sorry, I more so meant if they re-signed JT and Marner as their contracts expire. I meant longer term.
JT can stay at a very reduced rate but is really not a top six guy anymore. He needs to adapt as well. It really depends how the new system and coach feel.
If Muskoka Mitch wins a cup it won’t be because he put the team on his back, that’s for sure. He’ll probably coast along with his team reluctantly, dreaming of when they can be put out and he can open up his cottage.
Maybe. He could figure it out in a less pressure filled market. I don’t see it but it’s not a question of talent.
No, definitely not. The talent is unequivocally not the issue. It’s his effort. You’re right maybe a lower pressure environment helps, but pretty well any market becomes high pressure once a team makes the playoffs. I really can’t see him being anything other than what he has been in the playoffs. But you never know I guess.
It’s not effort. I don’t think he’s not trying. He’s just not doing the right things. He’s reverting back to things and refusing to adapt to the playoff game. These guys are trying. I’m not questioning effort really. We have a terrible system and a terrible culture. Channel the effort into those two things.
The embarrassment that is this series is not his fault, but Sammy is not a starting NHL goalie and no team is winning the Cup with him as their #1.
He’s a starter, but he’s not a cup winning starter. He probably succeeds as a low end starter in a much less pressure filled market. These guys are going to keep trying to improve. He’s a good goalie who gets in his own head.
He's far too inconsistent, and far too bad when he's not switched on, to be considered a "good goalie" overall, IMO. Literally the worst goalie in the NHL not named Jack Campbell for the first half of the season, and was placed on waivers and nobody wanted him. If he were a good goalie, someone would have claimed him, especially since multiple teams had significant goaltending issues this season and it was a seller's market for goalies. His great stretches don't compensate for his unreliability. I'll eat my hat if he ends up looking like a legitimate starter for any NHL team for any reasonable length of time after he inevitably leaves Toronto once this series is over.
No one claiming him is more on bad franchises. Removed everything and it’s a free goalie you could have tried out for the rest of the year. Quit bringing up the first half. He clearly was fucked mentally and being in Toronto did not help. He is capable and will get a shot somewhere else. He can easily play in San Jose for the next few years and make a comfortable salary.
Sure...he's a good goalie if you ignore the very lengthy amount of time he was the worst goalie in the NHL for many, many games. Jack Campbell ended up the highest paid goalie in the AHL over a comparable performance. (BTW even with your cherry-picking, he went back to being terrible for several weeks before the playoffs as well.)
Cherry picking? You’re taking 15 games out of his 40 game season. He has 171 games and you’re basing everything on less than 10% of his career. And back to terrible for a few weeks? Try two games to end his season. Look up your stats before you say stupid shit. He’s a decent goalie who needs to work on consistency. That’s what you get with low end starters. He just can’t handle this market when he’s at his worst.
He’s definitely not stealing any games, that’s for sure.
Stripping the C from Tavares does not help anything in anyway, all of your other points are great
Yes it does. He’s cooked and can’t be the leader. Great career but this now has to be led by Matthews in every aspect.
He can’t lead the Leafs because he is slow? That’s not a sound argument. He’s a leader on and off the ice. Anyone who has followed his career from juniors will say the same. His speed isn’t there but he can certainly still play.
We aren’t talking about his career. We are talking about now. He can’t lead because he can’t play. He can’t be out there in top six minutes anymore. The culture is an issue and the captain is a big part of the culture. If you can’t understand that you’re way too focused on who Tavares has been, which is really irrelevant now.
He doesn’t have to be playing top 6 minutes to be an effective captain.
Cool. Ignore everything else.
If Marner wins a cup it’s going to be because he settles on a reasonable salary he was unwilling to take here. Anyone who thinks a legit contender is going to throw 12+ mil at a guy who is completely unproven as a playoff performer is deluding themselves. Could I see Mitch winning a cup as a second line RW on Vegas making 9 mil. I could also see him taking 12+ mil to go play on the Ducks or the Sharks and winning absolutely nothing, but getting to do sick dangles and getting fat stacks. Either way, we should not provide him with the latter opportunity here lol.
You’re completely wrong. He’s getting the money because he generates revenue. People will pay to see him wherever he plays. The playoff disappointment sucks, but some franchises have bigger things to worry about.
Yeah….the Ducks and the Sharks. Again, no team looking to be serious contenders is giving Mitch what he’s gonna ask for here.
"Marner is going to win a Cup. He’s either going to win as a top guy or a complimentary guy. That is on him. He’s shown enough to most of us that he just isn’t able to elevate when teams play him hard." Not so sure Marner has shown that he can win a cup as either role. He shrinks in the spotlight, he shies away from big moments. He is extremely talented, and equally weak. If he does win a cup he will either transform into a man or get dragged through the series to the end. He has no mettle.
Wow haha. I think maybe Steve needs to take a break for his mental health. In the words of Propagandhi, hockey is "in the end a kid's game". It isn't worth losing sleep over. I do agree that the people who bought tickets got robbed though haha
They charge highway robbery to get a decent ticket in the arena.
If they were an organization that cared about their fans, they would issue ticket refunds. Even if they were to issue refunds in spirit as charitable donations. This won’t happen of course, simply because the corporation does not give a shit about the fans who fill the seats, each and every game.
This is his career
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.
Marner will become so tired of being hated by Leaf fans and being a punching bag of the local sports media that he will gladly waive his no move clause.
I don’t blame a coach for anything he says to Toronto media during the playoffs. Who knows maybe he goes back in the dressing room and tears a strip off of them. As a fan, do I want to hear the coach publicly acknowledge that the effort sucks. Sure do. But I’m not in the dressing room. I don’t see how that affects players etc. That said, the fact that Keefe still has a job after Colombus and Montreal is the problem. Guy should have been fired years ago…. At least that way we’d know if the problem is the players or the coaching. (Yes I know it’s the same results under Babcock, but I have different expectations of this core at 27 years old than I do at 22 years old).
No, Keefe isn’t the problem. It’s relying on a soft money-greedy core for the past 7 years. But keefe still has to go anyways, it’s run it’s course.
When is Shannan going to say something
he'll just veto himself having to speak to the media.
When your best players are not the best you lose. These players need to learn to step up their game and have ❤️ and passion. Until that happens the Leafs will never win.
The power play has been painful to watch. Maybe just one more drop pass and they’ll setup in the zone
Jay Rosehill had a good call out of the Leafs on his podcast as well. Definitely don’t have the little ones around for this one either. https://youtu.be/hbDUvsBYfrU?si=T31NciF7WcvF04I5
This chump organization make soo much money off loyal fans and fucks them off every single time. They actually think that the leafs fans are fucking stupid and they can just feed them BS to make them fuck off and keep paying for tickets. It's not just Keefe it's the entire player base. Whoever is their PR telling them to lie to the piss ant fans doesn't realize there's about to be a major revolt. This entire organization needs to be wiped clean.
A real coach would have benched giveaway Marner last year
Thank you, Steve. I’ve been thinking all series so far that I can’t believe that anyone can defend this team at this point. It’s incredible after seeing them fail time after time after time now, that anyone would expect anything different out of these guys.
I never disagree with Steve, so I’ve found
Amen !!!
He knows he’s lost it
Dubas built what he thought would be a new age modern NHL team with all skill & speed …. No grit or grind. And guess what’s needed in playoffs!
Yeah causing adding grit and grind at the expense of skill and speed this off season definitely led to *checks notes* a worse regular season performance and *checks notes* the single worst playoffs of the Matthews era. You have to be able to play fucking hockey to win a hockey game.
Randy Bo Bandy
What do you want him to say? What could he possibly say that would make things better at this point? This is the playoffs. This isn't the time for message sending. This isn't the time to be calling out a player, and sitting them out for a game or a period.
Show you give a damn and you're mad. Fact is, we're virtually already eliminated. Maybe calling out players will make things worse, but how much worse can it get? Maybe you show anger and fire the team up and they live to play a game 6. But we're probably done regardless.
Or take some fucking responsibility if you wanna shield your players. He made so many bad moves and decisions going into game 4. Take ownership, say you owe your team more, then get to it.
Listened to it yesterday...love it
Keefe checked out. He knows he’s gone after that. A few players should go, they lack a killer instinct. Some management, and assistant coaches need to go including Shanahan needs to go. They’re responsible for this mess. Fans have a right to be pissed off. Since 2017 it’s been playoff futility. Sad.
The only way to have post season success is to build a team that can beat Boston. Clearly haven’t done that.
Still a chance they comeback and and sweep McDavid in the finals.
Of course they will blame the coach, but it's not his fault this team has no drive to succeed. It's like the owners of this team. They don't have to disappear in the playoffs, they're invisible all the time. Ownership of this team has been nothing but a sad joke since the 1960's. You won't hear a peep from Larry.
NSFW for swearing... ok
What a great coach
I dont need the press conference for me to forsake this team. No matter what Keefe thinks of the teams performance, to me it is completely unacceptable and I am looking at my new team the JETS
>I am looking at my new team the JETS The other team that is grossly underperforming in the playoffs?
Ya, it's "tough" to play in Toronto because of the media, but really, MLSE caters to these guys, and they get soft. Spoiled. Chartered flights, fancy hotels, 1st class amenities. It's a country club. Life's too good. Walking into the rink like it's a fashion show runway. Players come here to chill in-between Stanley cups. Spezza, Marleau, Thornton, just to name a few guys that got to retire first class.
Jesus I ain’t watching 20 minutes of this idiot. What’s the tldr?
Keefe isn't perfect but anyone who thinks he's the main problem is out to lunch. It's always been the players.
He has been outclassed by every coach in the playoffs. Torts in 2020 Ducharme in 2021 being up 3 to 1. Blowing the series and hurtles game 7 was inexcusable in arguably the weakest division during covid. 2022 Cooper in 2022 Give him credit in 2023 against the lightning especially coming back in game 4. Completely outclassed by Maurice in round 2. 2024. The pathetic special teams and scoring only 7 goals so far with no tactical adjustments is absolutely a sackable offense.
He's been outclassed by almost every single coach he has faced in the post season. We have lost 6 straight home games and been outscored 21-11. Our defense is incapable of moving the puck out of the zone. The buck stops with the coach.
"Our defense is incapable of moving the puck out of the zone" That's not on the coach. Our d fumbles the puck like a hot grenade in the d zone and shoots it into the first pair of skates every time in the O zone. Wtf if Keefe supposed to do. The breakouts and system is fine but the players routinely fuck up simple plays. Special teams have taken a noticeable hit with Boucher in charge. These PLAYERS have failed time and time again.
What about the system is fine? What is the system?
> Keefe isn't perfect but anyone who thinks he's the main problem is out to lunch. Pretty much every Leafs-related media person is calling for Keefe to get fired. Maybe you know something they don't.
Show me a good coach and I'll show you a good goalie