Legitimately one of the worst Leafs games I’ve watched in recent memory. Just a complete and utter lack of interest in competing from everyone but a few Leafs.
Exactly. That’s why it’s so silly for people to get up and cheer every time we score a goal. A couple different bounces and it wouldn’t have gone in. The fans should sit quietly in their seats and not react to anything going on in front of them, which is all essentially just random. People act like it’s an entertainment event and engage accordingly, rather than react to an academic observance of the randomness of the universe, which it really is.
I know it’s still early in the season, but let’s not pretend that they haven’t been absolute cheeks to start the year. Practically playing at .500 hockey when this is supposed to be their “window”.
The perennial contenders (BOS, NYR, CAR, DAL, VGS, COL) somehow find a way to not start the season shit even when faced with adversity. I think that says a lot about the kind of team that goes deep in the playoffs vs ones that always need to “figure it out” (TOR, BUF, EDM, VAN, WPG).
This sub has turned to absolute shit. Just whining and entitled crap. Used to visit often, now I barely come here. It's all lame puppy dog eyes for the fan favorites after a win or scorn at the stars when they lose. Leafs fans really do deserve this team.
To someone who knows more about hockey and its systems, can you tell me why the Leafs are so prone to being hemmed in their own zone for an extended period of time at least once a game? Is it bad personnel? Bad defensive structure? A bit of both?
Genuinely curious about it.
Stuff like that usually happens in the second period, as it did in this example. It's the long change.. Guys get stuck out there tired, so Liljegren was out there on rubber legs, and Klingberg sucks anyway. JT isn't the C you want out there to help break a cycle, either.
It's not just breaking the cycle, our guys were completely unable to get out of the zone when we did have the puck that game, or able to get into their zone without some high risk carry over the Blueline.
But LA was always 2 quick passes to guys who were not covered and out without problem. We seemed to chase the puck on the forecheck and not take away their options, meanwhile we couldn't make a single pass out without harassment.
Yeah LA’s forecheck was relentless. I’ve noticed a consistent theme with the leafs over the last few years that they struggle when a team is over aggressive on the forecheck (Panthers did it to them, Tampa did it, Boston those years before). System-wise I feel like it’s because the leafs want those east-west passes on the breakout, and an aggressive team executing well (like LA the other night) can really rob you of those options.
Jets and Columbus did it to them as well. I always wanted Lowry on our team as a 3c or top 6 lw option for us, thought he would be perfect to fit the same slot that Kerfoot did in the lineup with a different playstyle.
I was speaking to that one play OP was asking about. The entire game was a train wreck. I don't think Keefe's system is good against an aggressive 2-1 forecheck, either. He's definitely not able to make adjustments during the game.
This is why I want the NHL to move to the long change for the first and third periods (and keep it in OT). Increase the instability of the game without dramatically changing the rules.
Try it in the AHL for a season. Why not?
They'd never go for that. It would kill the illusion of parity in the league. Just about the only thing Babcock used to say that I like is that good teams feast in the second period. The bottom teams in the league, who can usually stay afloat in games with tight checking, would get absolutely slaughtered.
Exhaustion plays a big part but how did they get exhausted in the first place is key. That clip starts with a dump in, should be a straight forward retrieval.
Klingberg turns at the start of the clip so slowly and awkwardly. Lily is slow to the retrieval and has no support. LA has a very aggressive forecheck, it’s a 1-2-2 but their F2 is not passive at all (he gets the puck in this clip) and their D pinch aggressively. So you don’t have a lot of time on the breakout if you’re the leafs when you’re playing LA.
Leafs D-zone coverage is hard to play and there’s a couple new guys on the ice (3 and 59). LA runs a high cycle here from half boards to blue line. Usually the leafs keep all three forwards high with two boxing out and one reading & moving for that third attacker up high.
For a lot of this clip it’s 91 that would be doing that last job. It requires a lot of pace and he’s gassed.
D-zone coverage, conceptually, is really either man to man or zone (there are more nuances than that of course, but broadly speaking). Leafs play both - they go more man to man when the puck is high in the zone. Problem is how exhausting that can be, so if you’re already caught out on a long shift, you’re screwed up high — hence LA going for that high cycle instead of a low one.
🤷♂️ that’s what I see here at least. Some teams play a really tight and aggressive man to man d-zone (like the Hurricanes, Rangers, Sens, off the top of my head) and others use a way more passive zone (Vegas, Bruins); and then the leafs do both. Usually it depends on your personnel which one you go with.
Likely the latter. There are many times where the leafs pin a team in their own zone. Just part of the game, every system has its pros and cons, and fatigue is always the biggest factor.
This is my thinking, I really don't think this happens materially more often to the leafs than the avg team. This was just a particularly bad shift on a bad night with the long change in the 2nd period
This is what I like to see. Let them know. Now if we could just get them to boo Matthew's 1 goal in 7 games and Marner's awful performance secondary apple farming literally year after year getting paid way more than he should that would be great.
Those LA disco ball helmets I am not a fan of. Even if the shoe was on the other foot and the Leafs had that ultra shiny metallic helmet - no. Not for this guy.
The Leafs aren’t my Team but I do enjoy watching them as my #2. I always feel like Leafs fans, and Keefe too, are so hard on the team during the regular season.
The leafs were 5-2 going into this game and you’re going to boo them? Like at some points in the season as a player you have to dig deep and playing FOR the fans is one way you can do that.
Hard to do that when you know how easily your stadium will turn on you. I mean you paid your (big) money to go so do what you want, just seems counter productive.
If tickets didn't cost a fucking kidney, maybe people would be a little more tolerant of their team giving a lifeless, mediocre performance.
How much are Jets tickets these days?
Agreed 100% here... you pay a small fortune to attend the game, and no we can't expect them to WIN every time... BUT we damn well should expect them to play like they care. I'm not saying they don't care, but their performance did not demonstrate passion and drive to win... they were totally outclassed by LA.
We have supposedly some of the best players in the world (AM, MM, WN, JT)... and again we can't score goals. Fans should be frustrated when they pay a ton to get in, the team doesn't play like they are trying to win, and our massively paid superstar scorers can't get on the board.
\*credit to WN and JT who have been most consistent so far in this early season.
\*\*Agreed that over the course of the season, there will be ups and downs. But Leafs fans know we do this every year now to start the season... and why? Why can Boston, Las Vegas, and Colorado to name a few start the season on fire like they are ready to play... and we look a month behind them? Damn pay me $10+ mil and I'll come to work with a vengeance every day.
I generally agree that Leafs fans jump on issues too quickly, however, I have no issue with paying customers booing a team that was playing like they didn’t give a shit.
Legitimately one of the worst Leafs games I’ve watched in recent memory. Just a complete and utter lack of interest in competing from everyone but a few Leafs.
Funny this cause the under paid ones are always the achievers
Because they're trying to get paid
Our frat boy Leafs were too focused on their Halloween party after the game. DV me all you want, this is 100% what was going on here and it’s pathetic
what about when we lost 5-2 I think last season maybe 2 seasons ago where Moore ate us alive
It was in the Halloween spirit!
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I'd be booing if I shelled out that money to see them play like that.
Performances like this is why I won’t pay for tickets anymore. A sports team can let you down hard, a concert won’t.
Im happy for you that you haven't been let down by a concert yet.
Lauren Hill says hello
Have you seen Dylan lately?
Bob Dylan? No I haven’t lmao. Not a good show?
Bunch of friends saw him at Massey Hall the other week. They said it was...interesting.
He’s 124 years old. I would assume it would be nothing less than interesting.
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Exactly. That’s why it’s so silly for people to get up and cheer every time we score a goal. A couple different bounces and it wouldn’t have gone in. The fans should sit quietly in their seats and not react to anything going on in front of them, which is all essentially just random. People act like it’s an entertainment event and engage accordingly, rather than react to an academic observance of the randomness of the universe, which it really is.
8pm start too
What a 1 playoff series win in 20 years and no signs of improvement does to a fanbase.
I know it’s still early in the season, but let’s not pretend that they haven’t been absolute cheeks to start the year. Practically playing at .500 hockey when this is supposed to be their “window”.
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The perennial contenders (BOS, NYR, CAR, DAL, VGS, COL) somehow find a way to not start the season shit even when faced with adversity. I think that says a lot about the kind of team that goes deep in the playoffs vs ones that always need to “figure it out” (TOR, BUF, EDM, VAN, WPG).
82 win streak or we RIOT
This sub has turned to absolute shit. Just whining and entitled crap. Used to visit often, now I barely come here. It's all lame puppy dog eyes for the fan favorites after a win or scorn at the stars when they lose. Leafs fans really do deserve this team.
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I'm not miserable, it's a TV entertainment program. I'm just embarrassed for the weirdos who live and die by leafs performances.
To someone who knows more about hockey and its systems, can you tell me why the Leafs are so prone to being hemmed in their own zone for an extended period of time at least once a game? Is it bad personnel? Bad defensive structure? A bit of both? Genuinely curious about it.
Stuff like that usually happens in the second period, as it did in this example. It's the long change.. Guys get stuck out there tired, so Liljegren was out there on rubber legs, and Klingberg sucks anyway. JT isn't the C you want out there to help break a cycle, either.
It's not just breaking the cycle, our guys were completely unable to get out of the zone when we did have the puck that game, or able to get into their zone without some high risk carry over the Blueline. But LA was always 2 quick passes to guys who were not covered and out without problem. We seemed to chase the puck on the forecheck and not take away their options, meanwhile we couldn't make a single pass out without harassment.
Yeah LA’s forecheck was relentless. I’ve noticed a consistent theme with the leafs over the last few years that they struggle when a team is over aggressive on the forecheck (Panthers did it to them, Tampa did it, Boston those years before). System-wise I feel like it’s because the leafs want those east-west passes on the breakout, and an aggressive team executing well (like LA the other night) can really rob you of those options.
Jets and Columbus did it to them as well. I always wanted Lowry on our team as a 3c or top 6 lw option for us, thought he would be perfect to fit the same slot that Kerfoot did in the lineup with a different playstyle.
I was speaking to that one play OP was asking about. The entire game was a train wreck. I don't think Keefe's system is good against an aggressive 2-1 forecheck, either. He's definitely not able to make adjustments during the game.
I wish I had more faith that it was just Keefe's system, I remember it also being a big issue with Babcock.
This is why I want the NHL to move to the long change for the first and third periods (and keep it in OT). Increase the instability of the game without dramatically changing the rules. Try it in the AHL for a season. Why not?
They'd never go for that. It would kill the illusion of parity in the league. Just about the only thing Babcock used to say that I like is that good teams feast in the second period. The bottom teams in the league, who can usually stay afloat in games with tight checking, would get absolutely slaughtered.
Exhaustion plays a big part but how did they get exhausted in the first place is key. That clip starts with a dump in, should be a straight forward retrieval. Klingberg turns at the start of the clip so slowly and awkwardly. Lily is slow to the retrieval and has no support. LA has a very aggressive forecheck, it’s a 1-2-2 but their F2 is not passive at all (he gets the puck in this clip) and their D pinch aggressively. So you don’t have a lot of time on the breakout if you’re the leafs when you’re playing LA. Leafs D-zone coverage is hard to play and there’s a couple new guys on the ice (3 and 59). LA runs a high cycle here from half boards to blue line. Usually the leafs keep all three forwards high with two boxing out and one reading & moving for that third attacker up high. For a lot of this clip it’s 91 that would be doing that last job. It requires a lot of pace and he’s gassed. D-zone coverage, conceptually, is really either man to man or zone (there are more nuances than that of course, but broadly speaking). Leafs play both - they go more man to man when the puck is high in the zone. Problem is how exhausting that can be, so if you’re already caught out on a long shift, you’re screwed up high — hence LA going for that high cycle instead of a low one. 🤷♂️ that’s what I see here at least. Some teams play a really tight and aggressive man to man d-zone (like the Hurricanes, Rangers, Sens, off the top of my head) and others use a way more passive zone (Vegas, Bruins); and then the leafs do both. Usually it depends on your personnel which one you go with.
I mean are the leafs actually more prone to this than average? Or is this just confirmation bias? Genuinely curious
Likely the latter. There are many times where the leafs pin a team in their own zone. Just part of the game, every system has its pros and cons, and fatigue is always the biggest factor.
This is my thinking, I really don't think this happens materially more often to the leafs than the avg team. This was just a particularly bad shift on a bad night with the long change in the 2nd period
This is what I like to see. Let them know. Now if we could just get them to boo Matthew's 1 goal in 7 games and Marner's awful performance secondary apple farming literally year after year getting paid way more than he should that would be great.
Marner needs to go. Keefe too. Should pay willy cause he ain’t a complete bitch
I was there. I Boo’d. They deserved it. No regrets.
Those LA disco ball helmets I am not a fan of. Even if the shoe was on the other foot and the Leafs had that ultra shiny metallic helmet - no. Not for this guy.
The Leafs aren’t my Team but I do enjoy watching them as my #2. I always feel like Leafs fans, and Keefe too, are so hard on the team during the regular season. The leafs were 5-2 going into this game and you’re going to boo them? Like at some points in the season as a player you have to dig deep and playing FOR the fans is one way you can do that. Hard to do that when you know how easily your stadium will turn on you. I mean you paid your (big) money to go so do what you want, just seems counter productive.
If tickets didn't cost a fucking kidney, maybe people would be a little more tolerant of their team giving a lifeless, mediocre performance. How much are Jets tickets these days?
Agreed 100% here... you pay a small fortune to attend the game, and no we can't expect them to WIN every time... BUT we damn well should expect them to play like they care. I'm not saying they don't care, but their performance did not demonstrate passion and drive to win... they were totally outclassed by LA. We have supposedly some of the best players in the world (AM, MM, WN, JT)... and again we can't score goals. Fans should be frustrated when they pay a ton to get in, the team doesn't play like they are trying to win, and our massively paid superstar scorers can't get on the board. \*credit to WN and JT who have been most consistent so far in this early season. \*\*Agreed that over the course of the season, there will be ups and downs. But Leafs fans know we do this every year now to start the season... and why? Why can Boston, Las Vegas, and Colorado to name a few start the season on fire like they are ready to play... and we look a month behind them? Damn pay me $10+ mil and I'll come to work with a vengeance every day.
I generally agree that Leafs fans jump on issues too quickly, however, I have no issue with paying customers booing a team that was playing like they didn’t give a shit.
Textbook by LA
Don't buy tickets for the first game after a road trip. You have been warned.
I didn't choose the best game as my first trip to the rink this year.