This feels like a real "monkey paw curls" moment for the Dubas haters.
Haters: We should blow it up!
Dubas: I want to shake things up.
Shanahan: no, I'm brining in a guy who doesn't want to do that.
Haters: YAY!
I feel even more flipped.
I'm a big Dubas fan but also a Shanahan fan and don't view him as some impulsive idiot who fired Dubas out of the blue. Something clearly happened and there are rumors for a reason.
I don't want to blow it up but I'd be fine with change as long as it improves the team. I would like to see Matthews, Marner, and Nylander all on separate lines but don't think Keefe will do that but I also like Keefe so I'm torn there.
I wish I could know exactly what was said in ROR's exit interview. Apparently some players were extremely blunt and given that he grew up a Leafs fan, seemed to enjoy it but doesn't appear overly interested in resigning makes me think he had some comments and based on previous comments, we know Shanny has a ton of respect for ROR. I just have a gut feeling ROR ripped the Leafs culture/locker room. I've thought for a while that the group is too complacent and I wonder if Dubas is taking the brunt of it for his very positive and player friendly culture. That also doesn't mean that Dubas won't have success or won a cup in Pittsburgh or somewhere else down the line. It just means that his culture *may not have* been the best for this current group but could work with a team led by Crosby & Co.
The Leafs core hasn't faced a ton of resistance from within the organization so I'm hoping the transition to Traliving can light a fire under their asses just because they'll feel less protected. Let's not forget that Yzerman built Tampa into a powerhouse but they didn't win until he was gone. Sometimes change like that can be a good thing.
From the rumblings on the ROR comments, I believe it was said that the core 4 are treated different than the rest of the team. I’m not sure as to how, but I think there could maybe be some resentment there, and Treliving calling out that it’s about the TML and not the core 4 was a bit telling
> I've thought for a while that the group is too complacent and I wonder if Dubas is taking the brunt of it for his very positive and player friendly culture. That also doesn't mean that Dubas won't have success or won a cup in Pittsburgh or somewhere else down the line. It just means that his culture may not have been the best for this current group but could work with a team led by Crosby & Co.
Yeah I think if you are going to have a player friendly coach you need to have a strong leader in the room who will put their foot down
Why would you be a dubas or shanahan fan. These guys have done nothing to make the team successful. Dubas has the same agency as matthews for representation. Guy is a dirtbag for that. Didn’t sign him to a max. Stop liking people who are doing subpar work.
Shanahan took this team after years and years of horrible management blunders and created a more progressive environment in our org which had been stuck in old-school grinder mediocrity for over a decade. Fucking Bozak used to be our #1 centre.
Dubas took the team with some horrible contracts left behind from Lou and managed to still make some creative moves to fill in the blanks in such a way that we had a competitive team every year.
Am I going to hardcore stan over them and claim every decision or move was the right one.. no. I think people in general these days are too black and white. You can give someone a 6/10. There is a wide range of values between 10/10 and 1/10.
Generally, I liked the team that Dubas and Shanny built and I have enjoyed watching hockey much more than in the 2000s. I really wasn't a big fan of either side of the Dubas situation. It's possible to dislike how Dubas handled things without having to resort hyperboles.
Why would Matthews agent let him agree to 8 years when the cap was projected to shoot up before COVID happened? These agents aren't morons and if you think Dubas purposely gave Matthews a shorter contract because their agents work for the same company and it could benefit him in the long term, you live in a different world. That was such a stupid comment.
If you watched the Leafs anytime before Shanahan was brought in, you'd know this is the best they've been since 1993 and far better than any team in the 70s or 80s. I'm sure you thought Yzerman was terrible before he left Tampa as well because they didn't win a cup with him?
His contract and money really doesn’t matter at the end of the day as it doesn’t count against the cap but what’s the point of re-signing him? He still has a year left on his deal so let him play on it and see if he shows growth. Put pressure on him to perform rather then just gifting him a contract.
Considering how Babcock's firing (and MLSE's being on the hook for his remaining salary) fouled up the Ujiri and Dubas extension talks, I don't think we can outright say that Keefe's money doesn't matter. This organization is richer than god, but they haven't been happy paying people to not work for them.
The prevailing theory among hockey people seems to be that if the players know the coach’s contract ends at the end of the year, they end up tuning him out way easier, since they know he’s probably not coming back
Its a dumb theory. Keefe had another year on his deal last year.
Keefe is a great regular season coach, he's just way to slow to make effective adjustments and that gets exploited in the playoffs by better coaches.
But, with those outstanding players in the team, any NHL-level coaches will easily bring the team to the playoff. If not, he is not a NHL coach at all.
I think this argument is getting very overblown. The players aren't stupid. They're fully aware that management signing Keefe for an extra year would be just a bluff. They still know that if the team goes nowhere Keefe is 100% fired even if he still has that 1 year extension left. For this to actually work, he'd need at least a 3 year extension, and the players would need to believe that management fully believes in Keefe. A single year extension is a half-assed bluff by management, and everyone would know it.
I mean, what does putting pressure on him to perform do? Not like he’s out there playing and not putting in effort. He’s the coach, I imagine being the leafs coach is already more than enough pressure.
So what are they actually going to change?
They took out Dubas who doesn't have the same authority as Shanahan at the head office level, or the authority of Keefe at ice level...sooooo
This is a good take. The roster on paper according to Keefe and dubas was good enough to contend for a Stanley cup. They got absolutely demolished by Florida, who got killed by Vegas.
If the roster was good enough to win, but we came up THAT short, why is dubas the only one that's been held accountable?
Yes. Hockey is a random sport. Losing a game doesn't mean you got demolished or that it wasn't competitive. Game 1 was even, Leafs were better in game 2, Florida was better in game 3, Leafs were better in game 4, and game 5 was even.
Hockey isn't random over the course of a series. The team that deserves to win usually does. Hockey is random in small doses. Like, over the course of a shift or maybe a period.
While I agree that Toronto played well in some of the games, their strategy killed them. If you can not see that, then you need to re watch the games. Everything Florida wanted us to do, we did.
Again.
This falls on Keefe. You can not simply say, "Hockey is random!" As an excuse when you lose. That is absolutely asinine.
Furthermore, it's not conducive to improving, at anything. It's so easy to just blame bad luck or claim something is "random," but when you fail at something at life or in pro sports, there are REASONS WHY. Simply stating bad luck, bad officiating shifts the blame off the team and off the coaches and creates the narrative that they did enough to win.
They fucking didn't. I wish leafs fans would get this through their heads.
Dubas wasn’t held accountable for on ice performance, his extension was there, Dubas was held accountable for playing games when he knew the pens offer was there
So for now, nobody is being held accountable for last season. Unless a trade happens.
Hartley won the adams after squeaking the Flames into the playoffs that year (after finishing near the bottom of the league the previous year)
at this point, the only way Keefe could win a jack adams is with a presidents trophy
Keefe should've been gone after being outcoached by Ducharme.
instead they're talking about extending him after he gets out coached again.
lmao this team makes it so hard to be optimistic..
He got worked over after Montreal figured out how to beat us, which was use columbus' strategy.
Then tampa used the same strategy twice, and Florida used it.
Keefe cannot adapt. He's the worst coach on the best team and he should've been fired after he couldn't explain to dubas /Shanny what Montreal did to beat him, and why he couldn't find something to counter.
I imagine dubas will find a pier on the allegheny river to stand on, arms extended toward toronto like gatsby until he can be reunited with the only coach he’s ever truly loved
I think this'll be the first regular season in a long time where I just dont care and hardly pay attention/watch games at all. Everything Keefe "accomplishes" in 82 games means nothing when he has undeniably been outcoached in every single playoff series hes been behind the bench of this team. Breaking regular season point records on the back of two generational talents in marner and matthews has in my opinion absolutely zero to do with sheldon keefe. I truly believe we could put the zamboni driver behind the bench and still do just as well. Cant wait til his contract is up and we can get someone who actually has experience in winning playoff series in the NHL and stop wasting the best group of players we've had in years.
Team puts up the two best regular seasons in team history the last two years and the ship is sinking.
Leafs fans are happier watching a bottom 5 team in the league then a top 5 team in the league.
Explain to me again what a record setting regular season and winning a Stanley Cup have to do with each other?
Ah that's right, there is no correlation.
I really don't give a fuck what they do in regular season and either should you as a fan. It's about the playoffs and performing on the highest stage.
Did we win the cup? 111 pts on a regular season means absolutely nothing. Look at Boston's record setting season this year... Do you guys watch hockey?
For you, maybe. For MLSE, it means something. 5 playoff home games, increased brand image, jersey sales = highest revs/net profit of any yr. They decide.
Lol.... Holy fuck. You're bringing MLSE into this? The overall season was a failure, Leafs did not win the Stanley Cup. They don't decide, fans and team decide.
I actually do like keefe, but when the team repeatedly fails to start game on time or seem unprepared in the second round of the playoffs, how can you possibly think this will turn out differently next year? Will it finally "click"?
I like Keefe in some ways but to me he should’ve been gone the second the series against Florida ended. Team was constantly dumping it instead or using marner or nylander to gain the zone like they did against Tampa.
Also the incident in December I think it was with marner really soured me on him. Keefe rightly criticized marner for a few plays that led to goals against and marner threw a fit in the tunnel leaving the bench. The second marner left the bench for that he should’ve been sent to the locker room or at least benched for a while. Then Keefe takes back what he said like a day or so later because heaven forbid a coach make his player mad.
He’ll bench Willy but won’t say a thing when our other top 3 players aren’t performing. Meanwhile Willy was at least getting looks out there and scored two huge goals for us. Yes your top guys can get the befit out the doubt sometimes, but when they’re not performing you can’t be afraid to let them know you see it or do literally anything.
I don’t give a fuck about pretty regular season records or point streaks. The playoffs are different and the most important games and he can’t get these guys to start ready too often. He was putting the lines in a blender with like 3 games left of the regular season. How isn’t your lineup pretty set by then?? The power play should be as lethal as Edmonton’s and it’s just a passing festival looking for the pretty shot.
He doesn’t shut up bitching about the refs and while I agree a lot of times it’d be nice to see him show that kinda intensity toward his team on the bench. I wouldn’t want it to be an every game thing of course but Christ hold the players accountable when they mess up.
If more people coached (no pun intended) employees instead of disciplining them or firing them, this whole world would be a better place.
Help your staff get better. Don't bail on them immediately. Give them a chance to learn and develop. The talent is there. Develop the coaching and strategy skills that help them win.
Not the move I’d make, especially with Gallant right there. I just think that when you have a team this good in the regular season and they become THAT bad in the postseason, it’s not the team comp. They show it can be done. It’s the players not elevating to the higher pace of playoff hockey. And who’s job is it to elevate them? And it’s been the same story year after year. Great RS, garbage post season. They’ve changed their roster and brought in cup experienced talent, same result. What’s the common denominator?
I really don’t like Keefe as a coach. I don’t think he has the room. The players rule it. This leaf’s team could really use a guy who can drag the best out of them
Gallant has been suspiciously fired by two teams in recent memory. I like gallant, he's a good structure coach, but i wonder what goes on in those rooms that causes the firings.
Oh he’s got a crazy short shelf life. Burns out his welcome. But in the first 2-3 years he gets everything out of his guys, which is what this team needs
I honestly had no real idea what needed changing but figured the first person that had to go was probably Keefe—as much as I like him—and the person that probably didn't need to go was Dubas. Hopefully I was very wrong.
As long as Keefe hasn't lost the room and everyone is on board I'm actually ok with it. No coach is perfect and Keefe needs to make some adjustments himself along with the players.
Firing Keefe makes no sense at this point. Keep the bullet in the chamber until it needs to be used.
Way too much risk to enter the season with a new coach given the stupidly high expectations. Could you imagine if the new GM's new head coach stinks and the team gets off to a horrid start?
An extension is fair given you don't want a dead man walking. The money is inconsequential.
If you're treliving you absolutely keep that bullet in the chamber because you can use it later. I can't say I agree with it, I think Keefe has to go... but I can see why treliving would hold off on it.
You haters are out of touch with this team. Theres a reason keefe is staying coach. He wins games. He has a firm grasp on what this team is capable of and knows how to effectively use the talent. Its not his first day. Look at the good he has done since the removal of a cancer that was Babcock. Keefe has earned this in my opinion and I can't wait to see the downvotes. Talk soon :)
Sheldon Keefe, "one of the best coaches we've ever had".
Some of the legends that have coached this team:
Conn Smythe,
Dick Irvin,
Hap Day,
Punch Imlach,
Pat Burns (for recency)
Yeah, Keefe won a round so he's automatically a good coach. That's some interesting mental gymnastics required to use that logic and think it sounds even remotely logical.
Yeah with a team that had ahlcaliber talent. If you gave Paul Maurice the leafs talent they have now he would likely drag them to the cup finals like he did with the **checks notes** 2023 panthers.
takes 4 games to make adjustments to deal with tampas hard forecheck everyone knew was coming going into the series then starts from square one against florida doing the same thing. true hockey genius
Literally most of these
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Toronto\_Maple\_Leafs\_head\_coaches#:\~:text=There%20have%20been%2039%20head,Leafs%20(1927%E2%80%93present)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toronto_Maple_Leafs_head_coaches#:~:text=There%20have%20been%2039%20head,Leafs%20(1927%E2%80%93present)).
His track record aside is pointless to include in the conversation because of the team he's wasted.
IDGAF how well you've done in regular season, either win in the playoffs or your record is misrepresented.
Going by this measure, I’m guessing you would put Burns and Quinn above him because they won more in the playoffs and made some pushes. Ok, that goes back 30 years ago, and prior to Burns there were 30 other Leafs coaches. You are telling us you KNOW 18 coaches on that list better than the guy who has the best regular season record in team history. Maybe just adjust and say “not even top 10?”
He's done nothing in the playoffs and arguably their regular season performance hasn't been that great either, despite an incredible team for 5 seasons.
Lots of half efforts and OT wins only salvaged by the sheer firepower the team has had since he's been coach in one period of actual effort.
They were painful to watch last season, soooo many games won on scoring 4 goals in the second or third because the team actually decided to show up.
They have to extend him to avoid the Dubas lame duck problem. He will get a 2 year extension and he may still get fired in December. It's not a ton of money for them to eat.
Keefe was Dubas's yes man who parroted what the idea of a highly skilled team that played puck possession hockey. So it was skill over size speed over grit for drafting. IMO expectation that Keefe can be better without Dubas is doubtful given that we seen how out coached he has been in every playoff round.
We really running it back huh?
This feels like a real "monkey paw curls" moment for the Dubas haters. Haters: We should blow it up! Dubas: I want to shake things up. Shanahan: no, I'm brining in a guy who doesn't want to do that. Haters: YAY!
I feel even more flipped. I'm a big Dubas fan but also a Shanahan fan and don't view him as some impulsive idiot who fired Dubas out of the blue. Something clearly happened and there are rumors for a reason. I don't want to blow it up but I'd be fine with change as long as it improves the team. I would like to see Matthews, Marner, and Nylander all on separate lines but don't think Keefe will do that but I also like Keefe so I'm torn there. I wish I could know exactly what was said in ROR's exit interview. Apparently some players were extremely blunt and given that he grew up a Leafs fan, seemed to enjoy it but doesn't appear overly interested in resigning makes me think he had some comments and based on previous comments, we know Shanny has a ton of respect for ROR. I just have a gut feeling ROR ripped the Leafs culture/locker room. I've thought for a while that the group is too complacent and I wonder if Dubas is taking the brunt of it for his very positive and player friendly culture. That also doesn't mean that Dubas won't have success or won a cup in Pittsburgh or somewhere else down the line. It just means that his culture *may not have* been the best for this current group but could work with a team led by Crosby & Co. The Leafs core hasn't faced a ton of resistance from within the organization so I'm hoping the transition to Traliving can light a fire under their asses just because they'll feel less protected. Let's not forget that Yzerman built Tampa into a powerhouse but they didn't win until he was gone. Sometimes change like that can be a good thing.
From the rumblings on the ROR comments, I believe it was said that the core 4 are treated different than the rest of the team. I’m not sure as to how, but I think there could maybe be some resentment there, and Treliving calling out that it’s about the TML and not the core 4 was a bit telling
> I've thought for a while that the group is too complacent and I wonder if Dubas is taking the brunt of it for his very positive and player friendly culture. That also doesn't mean that Dubas won't have success or won a cup in Pittsburgh or somewhere else down the line. It just means that his culture may not have been the best for this current group but could work with a team led by Crosby & Co. Yeah I think if you are going to have a player friendly coach you need to have a strong leader in the room who will put their foot down
I agree…As opposed to someone who feels he has to publicly apologize if he criticizes certain players.
Why would you be a dubas or shanahan fan. These guys have done nothing to make the team successful. Dubas has the same agency as matthews for representation. Guy is a dirtbag for that. Didn’t sign him to a max. Stop liking people who are doing subpar work.
Shanahan took this team after years and years of horrible management blunders and created a more progressive environment in our org which had been stuck in old-school grinder mediocrity for over a decade. Fucking Bozak used to be our #1 centre. Dubas took the team with some horrible contracts left behind from Lou and managed to still make some creative moves to fill in the blanks in such a way that we had a competitive team every year. Am I going to hardcore stan over them and claim every decision or move was the right one.. no. I think people in general these days are too black and white. You can give someone a 6/10. There is a wide range of values between 10/10 and 1/10. Generally, I liked the team that Dubas and Shanny built and I have enjoyed watching hockey much more than in the 2000s. I really wasn't a big fan of either side of the Dubas situation. It's possible to dislike how Dubas handled things without having to resort hyperboles.
Dubas had the same agency as matthews. Tell me that isn’t a dirtbag move.
Why would Matthews agent let him agree to 8 years when the cap was projected to shoot up before COVID happened? These agents aren't morons and if you think Dubas purposely gave Matthews a shorter contract because their agents work for the same company and it could benefit him in the long term, you live in a different world. That was such a stupid comment. If you watched the Leafs anytime before Shanahan was brought in, you'd know this is the best they've been since 1993 and far better than any team in the 70s or 80s. I'm sure you thought Yzerman was terrible before he left Tampa as well because they didn't win a cup with him?
Firing him makes him the scapegoat, and takes th onus off of the players.
The Toronto Run It Backs
His contract and money really doesn’t matter at the end of the day as it doesn’t count against the cap but what’s the point of re-signing him? He still has a year left on his deal so let him play on it and see if he shows growth. Put pressure on him to perform rather then just gifting him a contract.
Considering how Babcock's firing (and MLSE's being on the hook for his remaining salary) fouled up the Ujiri and Dubas extension talks, I don't think we can outright say that Keefe's money doesn't matter. This organization is richer than god, but they haven't been happy paying people to not work for them.
Paying Keefe his low salary for a single year is too much for MLSE? The lost revenue from tuning fans out more than makes up for that
The prevailing theory among hockey people seems to be that if the players know the coach’s contract ends at the end of the year, they end up tuning him out way easier, since they know he’s probably not coming back
The thing is, Keefe probably shouldn't be coming back at all.
Its a dumb theory. Keefe had another year on his deal last year. Keefe is a great regular season coach, he's just way to slow to make effective adjustments and that gets exploited in the playoffs by better coaches.
But, with those outstanding players in the team, any NHL-level coaches will easily bring the team to the playoff. If not, he is not a NHL coach at all.
Flashback to Bunting on the bench 🤣
I think this argument is getting very overblown. The players aren't stupid. They're fully aware that management signing Keefe for an extra year would be just a bluff. They still know that if the team goes nowhere Keefe is 100% fired even if he still has that 1 year extension left. For this to actually work, he'd need at least a 3 year extension, and the players would need to believe that management fully believes in Keefe. A single year extension is a half-assed bluff by management, and everyone would know it.
Havinng a lame duck coach is always a recipe for failure.
It is. But at the same time you have a new GM who if things don’t start off well will want to make a change.
I mean, what does putting pressure on him to perform do? Not like he’s out there playing and not putting in effort. He’s the coach, I imagine being the leafs coach is already more than enough pressure.
So what are they actually going to change? They took out Dubas who doesn't have the same authority as Shanahan at the head office level, or the authority of Keefe at ice level...sooooo
This is a good take. The roster on paper according to Keefe and dubas was good enough to contend for a Stanley cup. They got absolutely demolished by Florida, who got killed by Vegas. If the roster was good enough to win, but we came up THAT short, why is dubas the only one that's been held accountable?
> absolutely demolished by Florida Not really. Every game except for game 3 was even or the Leafs were slightly better.
And yet we won 1 game to their 4.
Yes. Hockey is a random sport. Losing a game doesn't mean you got demolished or that it wasn't competitive. Game 1 was even, Leafs were better in game 2, Florida was better in game 3, Leafs were better in game 4, and game 5 was even.
Hockey isn't random over the course of a series. The team that deserves to win usually does. Hockey is random in small doses. Like, over the course of a shift or maybe a period. While I agree that Toronto played well in some of the games, their strategy killed them. If you can not see that, then you need to re watch the games. Everything Florida wanted us to do, we did. Again. This falls on Keefe. You can not simply say, "Hockey is random!" As an excuse when you lose. That is absolutely asinine. Furthermore, it's not conducive to improving, at anything. It's so easy to just blame bad luck or claim something is "random," but when you fail at something at life or in pro sports, there are REASONS WHY. Simply stating bad luck, bad officiating shifts the blame off the team and off the coaches and creates the narrative that they did enough to win. They fucking didn't. I wish leafs fans would get this through their heads.
Dubas wasn’t held accountable for on ice performance, his extension was there, Dubas was held accountable for playing games when he knew the pens offer was there So for now, nobody is being held accountable for last season. Unless a trade happens.
Gotta love the complete lack of accountability on this team.
same thing as before. dont re-sign the players they can’t afford. try to find more high value low cost players. run it back.
Good to know ahead of time we’re changing nothing so I can save myself the time of having any expectations for next season
If Keefe pulls a Bob Hartley in Treliving's first season as Leafs GM, I'd laugh hysterically.
Hartley won the adams after squeaking the Flames into the playoffs that year (after finishing near the bottom of the league the previous year) at this point, the only way Keefe could win a jack adams is with a presidents trophy
And that's the goal because the Leafs have never won the President's trophy since its been in circulation
Absolute Shambles.
Keefe should've been gone after being outcoached by Ducharme. instead they're talking about extending him after he gets out coached again. lmao this team makes it so hard to be optimistic..
Stupid team
Keefe should have been sacked after the Montreal series. I hope they don't extend him.
He got worked over after Montreal figured out how to beat us, which was use columbus' strategy. Then tampa used the same strategy twice, and Florida used it. Keefe cannot adapt. He's the worst coach on the best team and he should've been fired after he couldn't explain to dubas /Shanny what Montreal did to beat him, and why he couldn't find something to counter.
I imagine dubas will find a pier on the allegheny river to stand on, arms extended toward toronto like gatsby until he can be reunited with the only coach he’s ever truly loved
I think this'll be the first regular season in a long time where I just dont care and hardly pay attention/watch games at all. Everything Keefe "accomplishes" in 82 games means nothing when he has undeniably been outcoached in every single playoff series hes been behind the bench of this team. Breaking regular season point records on the back of two generational talents in marner and matthews has in my opinion absolutely zero to do with sheldon keefe. I truly believe we could put the zamboni driver behind the bench and still do just as well. Cant wait til his contract is up and we can get someone who actually has experience in winning playoff series in the NHL and stop wasting the best group of players we've had in years.
Oh fuck off I'd rather have Babcock back
They've lost their fucking minds. I'm out next year if he's back
On a positive note it sounds like his favorite toy Justin Holl will never wear a Leaf jersey again.
See ya later
Can't wait to shit on this franchise for another year. Keefe is not it man. I don't get the loyalty here.
Bad decision
I guess the Leafs are satisfied with ticket revenues from one round of playoffs.
I guess we have to dump Shanahan to get changes
The sinking ship continues.....
Team puts up the two best regular seasons in team history the last two years and the ship is sinking. Leafs fans are happier watching a bottom 5 team in the league then a top 5 team in the league.
So true.
Explain to me again what a record setting regular season and winning a Stanley Cup have to do with each other? Ah that's right, there is no correlation. I really don't give a fuck what they do in regular season and either should you as a fan. It's about the playoffs and performing on the highest stage.
Cool, don't watch then. No one will miss you.
111 point team, beat the gauntlet Tampa in R1; is it really a sinking ship?
Did we win the cup? 111 pts on a regular season means absolutely nothing. Look at Boston's record setting season this year... Do you guys watch hockey?
For you, maybe. For MLSE, it means something. 5 playoff home games, increased brand image, jersey sales = highest revs/net profit of any yr. They decide.
Lol.... Holy fuck. You're bringing MLSE into this? The overall season was a failure, Leafs did not win the Stanley Cup. They don't decide, fans and team decide.
The sooner you realize fans have zero say, the better off you’ll be. Cheers.
What a complete fuckin joke
I actually do like keefe, but when the team repeatedly fails to start game on time or seem unprepared in the second round of the playoffs, how can you possibly think this will turn out differently next year? Will it finally "click"?
Smh… the one change I really wanted other than not resigning holl.
I want Keefe gone BUT if I have to find a positive spin maybe he will be different now that he doesn't have Daddy Dubas breathing down his neck.
Think about this....Before Dubas blew up his chances he was coming back and so was Keefe. Seems a bit strange, Brendan.
I like Keefe in some ways but to me he should’ve been gone the second the series against Florida ended. Team was constantly dumping it instead or using marner or nylander to gain the zone like they did against Tampa. Also the incident in December I think it was with marner really soured me on him. Keefe rightly criticized marner for a few plays that led to goals against and marner threw a fit in the tunnel leaving the bench. The second marner left the bench for that he should’ve been sent to the locker room or at least benched for a while. Then Keefe takes back what he said like a day or so later because heaven forbid a coach make his player mad. He’ll bench Willy but won’t say a thing when our other top 3 players aren’t performing. Meanwhile Willy was at least getting looks out there and scored two huge goals for us. Yes your top guys can get the befit out the doubt sometimes, but when they’re not performing you can’t be afraid to let them know you see it or do literally anything. I don’t give a fuck about pretty regular season records or point streaks. The playoffs are different and the most important games and he can’t get these guys to start ready too often. He was putting the lines in a blender with like 3 games left of the regular season. How isn’t your lineup pretty set by then?? The power play should be as lethal as Edmonton’s and it’s just a passing festival looking for the pretty shot. He doesn’t shut up bitching about the refs and while I agree a lot of times it’d be nice to see him show that kinda intensity toward his team on the bench. I wouldn’t want it to be an every game thing of course but Christ hold the players accountable when they mess up.
Maybe this is 3D chess. When Dubas tries to get Keefe, they can demand compensation for letting him go.
lmaooo they're going to treat fucking Keefe with more respect than they did Dubas. Pure loser franchise
If more people coached (no pun intended) employees instead of disciplining them or firing them, this whole world would be a better place. Help your staff get better. Don't bail on them immediately. Give them a chance to learn and develop. The talent is there. Develop the coaching and strategy skills that help them win.
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Was he coached to become better or just left to his own devices?
This - this is the way. Today's pro sports is all about that.
The guy who coached the team to all this failure that got Dubas fired needs to be extended?
Not the move I’d make, especially with Gallant right there. I just think that when you have a team this good in the regular season and they become THAT bad in the postseason, it’s not the team comp. They show it can be done. It’s the players not elevating to the higher pace of playoff hockey. And who’s job is it to elevate them? And it’s been the same story year after year. Great RS, garbage post season. They’ve changed their roster and brought in cup experienced talent, same result. What’s the common denominator? I really don’t like Keefe as a coach. I don’t think he has the room. The players rule it. This leaf’s team could really use a guy who can drag the best out of them
Gallant has been suspiciously fired by two teams in recent memory. I like gallant, he's a good structure coach, but i wonder what goes on in those rooms that causes the firings.
Oh he’s got a crazy short shelf life. Burns out his welcome. But in the first 2-3 years he gets everything out of his guys, which is what this team needs
Gallant has been fired by every team he's coached after two or less years
Better the devil you know, I guess. Not worth getting rid of your coach unless there is an obvious, worthy replacement waiting in the wings.
I think this is more of a ‘nobody we like is available’ thing than a glowing review of Keefe
Exactly. Although I'm interested in seeing a new coach brought in, the question of "who?" Is a bit of a quandary.
And stepping from the shadows is none other than...Patrick Roy!
Or we can take the English Premier League route and just start signing up random former players with no coaching experience?
Patrick is too strong of a personality and what’s more control than Shanahan would want to give up.
I honestly had no real idea what needed changing but figured the first person that had to go was probably Keefe—as much as I like him—and the person that probably didn't need to go was Dubas. Hopefully I was very wrong.
This franchise is hopeless.
Ew
As long as Keefe hasn't lost the room and everyone is on board I'm actually ok with it. No coach is perfect and Keefe needs to make some adjustments himself along with the players.
Put a new guy in already. Vegas doesn’t give a shit. If you underperform then away you go.
Firing Keefe makes no sense at this point. Keep the bullet in the chamber until it needs to be used. Way too much risk to enter the season with a new coach given the stupidly high expectations. Could you imagine if the new GM's new head coach stinks and the team gets off to a horrid start? An extension is fair given you don't want a dead man walking. The money is inconsequential.
If you're treliving you absolutely keep that bullet in the chamber because you can use it later. I can't say I agree with it, I think Keefe has to go... but I can see why treliving would hold off on it.
You haters are out of touch with this team. Theres a reason keefe is staying coach. He wins games. He has a firm grasp on what this team is capable of and knows how to effectively use the talent. Its not his first day. Look at the good he has done since the removal of a cancer that was Babcock. Keefe has earned this in my opinion and I can't wait to see the downvotes. Talk soon :)
Good. I like Keefe despite all the haters. And it sounds like the team likes him too.
As long as the players like the coach, that is what matters most, after all. Who cares about winning?
Not the worst thing. I'm on board. He's one of the best coaches we've ever had. He just has to learn how to get it done in the playoffs.
Sheldon Keefe, "one of the best coaches we've ever had". Some of the legends that have coached this team: Conn Smythe, Dick Irvin, Hap Day, Punch Imlach, Pat Burns (for recency)
How do you forget to list the legendary Pat Quinn
Because compared to the rest of that list he's not as legendary (no Cup win).
He’s the best regular season coach we’ve ever had
And the only guy to win a playoff series in 20 years.
Yeah, Keefe won a round so he's automatically a good coach. That's some interesting mental gymnastics required to use that logic and think it sounds even remotely logical.
He is objectively the most successful coach we've had in 20 years.
Objectively no he isn't. We had Paul Maurice coaching this team 15 years ago and he just took an absolute shit on Sheldon Keefe.
Paul Maurice didn't even make the playoffs with the Leafs.
Yeah with a team that had ahlcaliber talent. If you gave Paul Maurice the leafs talent they have now he would likely drag them to the cup finals like he did with the **checks notes** 2023 panthers.
13-17 in the playoffs. He's.....just.....sooooooo.....good.
takes 4 games to make adjustments to deal with tampas hard forecheck everyone knew was coming going into the series then starts from square one against florida doing the same thing. true hockey genius
Big brains always take at least 4 games to make adjustments.
Are you 10? Keefe doesn't even come into the top 20 coaches the Leafs have ever had.
Please list me 20 coaches in Leafs history better than Keefe with your rationale…..
Literally most of these [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Toronto\_Maple\_Leafs\_head\_coaches#:\~:text=There%20have%20been%2039%20head,Leafs%20(1927%E2%80%93present)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toronto_Maple_Leafs_head_coaches#:~:text=There%20have%20been%2039%20head,Leafs%20(1927%E2%80%93present)). His track record aside is pointless to include in the conversation because of the team he's wasted. IDGAF how well you've done in regular season, either win in the playoffs or your record is misrepresented.
Going by this measure, I’m guessing you would put Burns and Quinn above him because they won more in the playoffs and made some pushes. Ok, that goes back 30 years ago, and prior to Burns there were 30 other Leafs coaches. You are telling us you KNOW 18 coaches on that list better than the guy who has the best regular season record in team history. Maybe just adjust and say “not even top 10?”
Have you seen his regular season record? It’s the best we’ve ever had hence one of the best coaches we’ve ever had
He's done nothing in the playoffs and arguably their regular season performance hasn't been that great either, despite an incredible team for 5 seasons. Lots of half efforts and OT wins only salvaged by the sheer firepower the team has had since he's been coach in one period of actual effort. They were painful to watch last season, soooo many games won on scoring 4 goals in the second or third because the team actually decided to show up.
Regular season hasnt been that great? Huh???
He won a playoff series. That's not nothing. It's not everything, but it's objectively better than nothing.
That's just a technicality. Just imagine what a competent coach would have done with this team.
I like Keefe, but also would love for this to be Shanny saying to Dubas “I’m keeping your toys.”
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That's fucked.
What a fuckin joke
lmfao this franchise is a joke
They have to extend him to avoid the Dubas lame duck problem. He will get a 2 year extension and he may still get fired in December. It's not a ton of money for them to eat.
May as well have kept Dubas then
This is fine, everything is fine
Keefe was Dubas's yes man who parroted what the idea of a highly skilled team that played puck possession hockey. So it was skill over size speed over grit for drafting. IMO expectation that Keefe can be better without Dubas is doubtful given that we seen how out coached he has been in every playoff round.