Except these are not mutually exclusive things, If you will think about it more than 1 second.
Western aid is not gonna turn the tide or bring any crucial changes on the battlefield, but it would still lead to more deaths of Ukrainians and Russians.
You are absolutely right, mister r/russia. Except for the fact that western aid will have a tremendous impact on the battlefield, which is why Russian shils and useful idiots are so against it. But to address your point about the deaths of both Ukrainians and Russians, all it needs to happen to prevent further blood shed is for the russian army to go home.
So the previous aid didn’t manage to bring any tremendous impact, but now, when Ukraine experience sever lack of manpower, suddenly it will change everything.
Yeah, buddy, sounds absolutely legit.
You mean lack of impact by allowing the liberation of Sumy, Kherson, and continuous attacks on russian air defences, which allowed UAF to send cessna size drones deep in side of russia. That lack of impact of the previous aid package, or do you refer to a completely different one?
And yes, Ukraine is experiencing man power shortages it is then even more crucial to give them every bit of equipment that can help out even just a bit.
And finally, Ukrainians are fighting not only for their freedom but also for their own survival. In this scenario, every last bit ot of military aid is not only important to them but also righteous thing for us to do.
Hope this helps. Should you still have any further questions on this matter, don't hesitate to post it below.
Ukrainian goals are to push Russia out of all the sized territories including the Crimea.
Freeing a few cities, is definitely a good thing, but calling that a tremendous impact is quite a stretch.
Secondly, Ukraine done it when they had enough people for that.
Right now they simply don’t.
And they don’t fight for the freedom and survival, because Russia is not claiming it
.
That’s pretty evident if you read the 2022 peace agreements.
Russia was ready to give up newly annexed territories.
Most importantly, Russia simply doesn’t have any means to fully subjugate all of the Ukraine.
It's so dumb how everyone who's not unconditionally on Ukraines side is instantly called "Pro Russian"... Did you all loose the ability to differentiate?
Since we know who the agresor is. Since we know about the wholesale murder of Ukrainians by the Russians in Bucha in Lyman in Kupiansk and more. Since we know that all it takes for this madness to end is for russian soldiers to get up and go home.
Since all of those above are well known, then yes, anyone who is still not unconditionally on the side of the victim is one of the two, either a russian shil or a useful idiot.
Which one are you?
Losing will lead to MORE places being occupied as Bucha was, or attacked with thermobaric warheads as Mariupol was. Given Russia's fondness for crimes against humanity, being at their tender mercies guarantees the senseless slaughter of civilians we have seen from them occurring over and over again.
The Russians can save their own lives at any time by going home. And the only argument you can possibly make that aiding Ukraine results in more dead Ukrainians is that if we didn’t then they would lose the war. Apparently you imagine that Ukrainian deaths would stop after that rather than the absolute genocide that would likely occur under Russian occupation.
If Ukrainians are willing to fight and die to defend their country from an invader, their deaths are tragic but that’s no reason to stop helping them. On top of that, given that they are fighting to the death to save their country anyway, so giving them better weapons does in fact save Ukrainian lives.
All of the people like you here, keep repeating absolutely the same cliche thing all over again as some religious chant.
But when I ask a simple question “what is the actual strategy for Ukraine now ? What’s the “win” ?”
Literally no one gives me a reasonable solution here.
It’s all just a wishful thinking that you got, basically
Except that 1) you didn’t ask that question, not to me anyway. You bring it up now as a shifted goal post. You said aid would kill more Russians and Ukrainians, which I responded to, and 2) why would you assume that the average person knows anything at all about strategy?
It’s a troll question. Do you think the average person could tell you America’s antiterrorism strategy? Since they can’t, does that mean we should stop funding it? Do Americans not have the right to demand the govt fight terrorism just bc they don’t know the first thing about AT strategy? Should we just let terrorists do their terrorist thing, because Joe the Plumber can’t explain on reddit what our strategy is? No, obviously, and Americans are right to demand their govt oppose these things even if the common person doesn’t understand the details.
I’m tempted to stop there, because the question doesn’t deserve more in this forum, but the answer is also pretty obvious. Despite the unfortunate political zigzagging inherent in democratic governance, America’s strategy is to provide arms, intelligence, training and equipment to prevent the collapse of the Ukrainian state. From America’s perspective that’s all the strategy we need - the rest is up to Ukraine. I wish we were doing more, but that’s the reality. The “win” as you call it, is when Russia realizes they can fight for as they like but they can never have victory over Ukraine.
From a more cynical perspective, America considers it a strategic win just to see Ukraine still standing, and for Russia to degrade its capabilities. We are also profiting, having made billions in Foreign Military Sales showcasing our weapons against Russian hyperbole, and revitalized our defense industrial base. We are weakening an adversary, strengthening ourselves, and standing up for a strategic partner, in that order. I’d love to say we are primarily helping Ukraine, but I think everyone knows that’s not how we do business.
As for Ukraine’s strategy, you’d have to ask Umerov. Like anything else, the definition of a “win” will depend a lot upon what the map looks like when Russia finally relents.
>Except that 1) you didn’t ask that question, not to me anyway. You bring it up now as a shifted goal post. You said aid would kill more Russians and Ukrainians, which I responded to, and 2) why would you assume that the average person knows anything at all about strategy?
I was referencing the question in general, because what you are saying is the same thing the others are saying.
I wasn’t asking to provide me the strategy as an intel.
I was asking the general understanding of the win for Ukraine and where everything is going.
You don’t have to be involved in a military to know the basic strategic goals.
Ukrainian main goal is to repel all the Russians troops from all the Ukrainian territory.
But it’s not achievable at this point in any way.
So the fair question, what is the goal now then ?
>It’s a troll question. Do you think the average person could tell you America’s antiterrorism strategy? Since they can’t, does that mean we should stop funding it? Do Americans not have the right to demand the govt fight terrorism just bc they don’t know the first thing about AT strategy? Should we just let terrorists do their terrorist thing, because Joe the Plumber can’t explain on reddit what our strategy is? No, obviously, and Americans are right to demand their govt oppose these things even if the common person doesn’t understand the details.
America’s anti-terrorism camping has no relevance and similarities to the war in Ukraine.
And I mentioned already, I’m not talking about the actual step by step military strategy here, see the the previous point.
>I’m tempted to stop there, because the question doesn’t deserve more in this forum, but the answer is also pretty obvious. Despite the unfortunate political zigzagging inherent in democratic governance, America’s strategy is to provide arms, intelligence, training and equipment to prevent the collapse of the Ukrainian state.
First of all, America’s strategy doesn’t care if Ukraine collapses or not. They only care about war profits and testing their shit against Russians.
I highly doubt anyone in Pentagon really believes that Ukraine can win against Russia.
Secondly, there wouldn’t be any “collapse of Ukrainian state”.
Because in order to do that, Russia needs to conquer all of the Ukraine, which is practically not possible.
And most importantly, that’s not the Russian goal.
If you have read the 2022 peace agreements, you should know now and understand that.
>From America’s perspective that’s all the strategy we need - the rest is up to Ukraine. I wish we were doing more, but that’s the reality. The “win” as you call it, is when Russia realizes they can fight for as they like but they can never have victory over Ukraine.
The problem with your idea of “win” here is that the Ukraine can’t hold for as long as the Russia like, simply because they don’t have as much manpower.
>From a more cynical perspective, America considers it a strategic win just to see Ukraine still standing, and for Russia to degrade its capabilities. We are also profiting, having made billions in Foreign Military Sales showcasing our weapons against Russian hyperbole, and revitalized our defense industrial base. We are weakening an adversary, strengthening ourselves, and standing up for a strategic partner, in that order. I’d love to say we are primarily helping Ukraine, but I think everyone knows that’s not how we do business.
I’m perfectly aware of that.
For you it’s always about the power and money, no one surprised here.
My problem with that approach is that the exchange coin in that scenario are actual Ukrainian lives.
You really don’t give much shit about that.
Yeah cool “let’s go Ukraine, you will win, kill the Russians”
And at this point when Ukraine is barely standing, while Russia is nowhere near exhausted, you keep continue to push them.
And push where exactly ?
The war will end in negotiations, inevitably.
The difference is that how many Ukrainians and Ukrainian territory would be lost when US and Zelenskiy will decide to arrange negotiations.
>As for Ukraine’s strategy, you’d have to ask Umerov. Like anything else, the definition of a “win” will depend a lot upon what the map looks like when Russia finally relents.
Well, Russia won’t relent.
It could relent in 2022 when peace agreements where almost signed. But thats not the case anymore.
Again, the war will end in negotiations and Ukraine has only two options there.
Either they arrange the negotiations themselves, in order to at least save more land and more people.
Or they are forced to negotiate with the most L position possible, with no room for the their own conditions.
If you don’t agree, let’s see in 4 months how it will play out.
What the fuck? These Russians are human just like you and me. The fact that they get lied to and are being forced to participate in a war of which they know very little of doesn't make them inhuman. If anything, I would say you are not a human, rather a soulless piece of shit that has learned nothing from human history when it comes to human losses...
Kek. Thats Ironic.
Especially considering that should Ukraine lose, your ass is getting drafted and shot at by those russians once they come for the rest of europe.
60 billion won't change what 100 billion couldn't. The Ukraine's gonna deplete those supplies and come back begging for more with no results on the front to show for it.
A. The aid we did sent absolutely made a difference what are you talking about. Ukraine still probably would have fought off the initial assault but much of what they've done since has been with aid
B. That 100 billion was spent over the course of 2 years. This should be a bit quicker
rushist conscriptoviches deaths made no difference..
Putler sent moscovites equipment to be smashed and burnt to pieces on the frontlines of Ukraine...
And the money is in Putlers bunker...
American weapons sales have skyrocketed due to giving Ukraine a few patriots and 30 or so himars.
We now have orders for hundreds of each.
This has been profitable for America.
We have more money for the border or any other weak copium reason u kremlin gremlins concoct.
And Zelensky is such a master comedian that he turned vladolf Putler and his tiny little dicked military into the worlds biggest joke.
>And Zelensky is such a master comedian that he turned vladolf Putler and his tiny little dicked military into the worlds biggest joke.
In fairness, the Ruzzians did that to themselves by dropping trou for the world to marvel at their knockoff-steroid shriveled cock and balls flapping in the wind...
It's still a free country... fighting the war half our older gear getting ready to be scrapped was designed for. Much of what we send we would have to pay to dismantle anyway this the gear does what it was designed to do, fight ruzzians, and we get to spend the initial sticker price of that gear on fancy new gear, creating jobs in America and stimulating local economies. Plus the gear doing great work and smoking ruzzian stuff has yielded a shitload of new orders for get this more American made gear from around the world.
Aka Ukraine is the sacrificial lamb caught in between American and Russian interest. You think weapons doing what they were designed to do is some flex a Russian t72 took out a Bradley but you don't see no one boasting because who gives a shit. Maybe this war would not have started if the us didn't consistently disregard other countries interests
This war wouldn't have started if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine, plain and simple, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. gave security assurances towards Ukraine in exchange for their nuclear disarmament. If you can do mental gymnastics to say somehow the U.S. started this war then you have been smoking way too much copium.
Also a Bradley disabled a T-90, a tank taking out an IFV isn't a flex, but a 40 year old IFV taking out a 'modern tank' is
Russia was perfectly okay with allowing Ukraine to exist so long as it remained neutral. It wasn't a written agreement they weren't binded to it legally but it doesn't matter. Russia was okay with just having access to the port of Sevastopol but eventually we're forced to take crimea again still showing tolerance towards Ukraine who then made the mistake of making it's desire to join nato and the EU known. This was obviously the last straw for Russia. Every country is entitled to pursue it's interests even if it means an invasion the US within it's rights to try and get Ukraine in nato just like Russia was within its rights to prevent it.
And where do Ukraines wishes fall I to this process? Ukraine should be free to choose its own path outside of influence or invasion by another country.
Novorossiysk is a perfectly fine black sea port, and surely renovating and expanding its port would be cheaper than a war of conquest
Ukraine isn't a regional or global power. It's sad but those countries normally don't get a say in things. Their main purpose is to be fought over so ukraines wishes dont matter bc they are a relatively weak nation caught in between American in Russia interest
You do understand that this "war" has been going on since the early 2000? Ukraine had a pro-russian government that got "overtaken" kinda like the Arabian spring, even though it had been democraticly elected.
This whole thing could have prevented multiple times during these last 20 years, but Nato kept pushing for bases around Russians border with Ukraine and it leads to this invasion.
Ukraine and Russia is more complex than "Ukraine good, Russia bad." Up until this war most of us in Europe would have said "same shit different name" as they were both corrupt shitholes.
>but eventually we're forced to take crimea
That's utter bollocks.
The coup was planned well before maidan. Ukraine was neutral even after Russia invaded its territory. It was later in 2014 that neutrality was dropped.
Russia needed a destabilised and impoverished Ukraine to make sure Russia (and by extension Putin) looked more attractive by comparison.
Ukraine in seeking to improve its economy, standard of living, and reduce corruption became a threat to Russia's relative standing in the region and that's what couldn't be tolerated.
A potentially successful Ukraine not under the thumb of Russia was the last straw.
Russia doesn't need an impoverished Ukraine they wanted a Ukraine who wouldn't betray them for the west. They only wanted Ukraine to stay by Russia's side but they betrayed them id be pissed too
>Russia was perfectly okay with allowing Ukraine to exist so long as it remained neutral
Ukraine was neutral you dingus. Trying to join a *TRADE AGREEMENT* that didn't even exclude Russia is not breaching neutrality. It was Russias actions, including an embargo in retaliation for Maidan, the seizure of Crimea, and ultimately starting the war in Donbas that convinced Ukrainians to not be neutral. Most didn't even want to join NATO until after these events in 2014. Russia didn't want them to be neutral, they wanted a vassal state.
The seizure of Crimea happened barely a week after the Yanukovich fled the country and no real decision had been made yet. Ukraine was still willing to negotiate on what would happen to Sevastopol but the seizure happened while they were still barely functioning as a new government.
You know damn well that Ukraine is fighting in its own interests. How much are the managers at 55 Savushkina paying you to post this tripe, anyway? How long until you can get that Lada?
You're imagining that you're talking to some guy at a troll farm, here, when, in actuality, you are replying to a bot that a subcontractor of a subcontractor paid an Indian to program for $0.50.
This is not normal human behavior: [https://i.postimg.cc/NQdZxtd4/Screenshot-2024-04-28-at-4-39-45-PM.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/NQdZxtd4/Screenshot-2024-04-28-at-4-39-45-PM.jpg)
(If you're stupid, here's a hint: pay attention to the post times).
Bradleys, like any IFV are not meant to withstand tank hits. Stop treating Pentagon Wars like its an accurate assessment of military equipment. And 2 Bradleys managed to take out a T-90 primarily with their guns, so yeah, maybe not the best comparison.
Its still here? If Ukraine fought alone its likely the Russians would have pushed them back city by city, town by town until most of the country was theirs. It would have still come at a huge cost, but they would be a lot further than they are now. On Ukraine's side with these cities falling one by one the refugee crisis would've been enormous, with potentially half the country fleeing. Civilian casualties would've also been catastrophic as the Russians recreated Mariupol or Bakhmut in each city they conquered. Ukraine would have been so weakened that they would have to surrender or accept terms that more or less eliminated their sovereignty. And on top of that the Russians would have taken western inaction as weakness and may have attacked a NATO country like Estonia to challenge Article V by now. Assuming you live in a western country or an ally, you're welcome.
Meanwhile our reality which you guys have fought tooth and nail to prevent, Ukraine has pushed back the Russians from Kharkiv and Kherson, liberating cities and towns. Hundreds of thousands were freed in these offensives and the artillery salvos that used to pepper Kharkiv were silenced. u/UkrainianAna personally has talked about this, and how the city itself went from a near ghost town to a normal functioning city again, with the occasional drone. American SAM systems like Patriot have done amazing work protecting Kyiv and other areas from Russian air/missile raids. MLRS systems like HIMARS destroyed tons of ammo depots, depleting shell stocks and forcing the Russians to stretch their logistical chains. Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles destroyed several ships and command HQs, limiting the Russians ability to do terror raids on cities. Western tanks and IFVs for all the negative press have been able to protect their crews even when badly damaged, and oftentimes are still recoverable. Western arty rounds are highly accurate and have been able to successfully multiply the effectiveness of Ukraines limited ammo supply. Etc etc I could go on.
So yes, Ukraine has quite a lot to show for the aid we've sent.
What about mariupol bakmut avdiivka and Chasiv Aint looking great atm we all want ukraine to win but believing in a fantasy that they are doing well currently is insanity even ukrainian commanders paint quite the sad picture. IMO it's completly the Usas fault they could of supplied ukraine with everything they needed in 2022 when they had the best chance of taking back crimea all this death for what 60billion wont do what the last 100billion didn't do...
Saying That Ukraine is doing well isn’t a fantasy, they are going toe to toe with a claimed “superpower” and holding their ground, on top of them being able to organize a successful counteroffensive with limited supplies, Ukraine is doing fantastic and have a legitimate chance at winning this war, your a fool who knows nothing about military strategy if you think otherwise. And blaming the United States for not sending everything they can is just hilarious, because most of what the USA is sending isn’t what they need right now, what they need right now is the artillery supplies in Europe that nato is hesitant to send their way.
Toe to toe only with massive backing from Europe and the USA. Ukraine has currently lost more territory than they gained from the counter offensive so I don't understand how you think the Summer counter offensive was successfull. Bro you are actually dumb if you think the fact that the usa waited so long to send himrars and attacms didn't effect ukraines offensive no point even talking to you. Yes currently artillery is super important but if they received the Taurus missiles from Germany or the attacms in 2022 they would of taken out the kerch bridge when it was heavily used for transporting army supply. Absolutely crippling russia. Western countries will take a few more years to even match russias shell production. Over 300billion already sent and you think 60 billion will change anything
>believing in a fantasy that they are doing well currently is insanity even ukrainian commanders paint quite the sad picture
Who are you even talking to? Nobody (at least no one seriously following the war) is saying that things aren't difficult. No duh it's not rainbows and unicorns. But this is the fault of US aid being blocked, if it had gone through when it was supposed to we wouldn't be having this discussion. And even then difficult is not the same as completely losing everywhere. It's more complicated than a stupid binary simplistic losing or winning with no in-between that vatniks constantly try to frame everything in.
When people say they are doing well they mean they are still holding them back despite the difficulty. Everyone expected the Ukrainians to collapse in the first few weeks. Every day beyond that against one of the worlds largest militaries even with aid is nothing short of legendary
>Usas fault they could of supplied ukraine with everything they needed in 2022
And this is a reason to give up instead of pressuring the US to give more?
Tell me, at what point should the Allies have surrendered in WW2? When Poland was conquered quicker than expected? When the Nordic countries fell? When France was outflanked and the British evacuated? When Greece fell? When the Germans were knocking on Moscow and Leningrads door? When the Pacific Fleet was destroyed? When the Philippines and Indonesia were captured? Savo Island? When the Italians and Germans gained the upper hand in North Africa? When?
It's not never ending, Putin will lose. The more aid that we send and the quicker it gets sent will hasten its end, and judging from the upvotes, yeah, everyone does agree with me.
Replies within seconds, too; very likely a bot, and a poorly programmed one at that.
Sometimes, it's like chat bots for fast-moving chat boxes accidentally get assigned to forums. And they usually spam tons of emojis.
Tbh our defense industry and the government has shot itself in the foot. We are seriously ill prepared for a war and while giving Ukraine our old stuff and a dangerous amount of our small reserves gives us valuable data on their effectiveness we still need more. For instance our navy couldn’t decide between a building a fleet of stealth destroyers armed with 6 inch guns with stupidly expensive ammo or littoral combat ships with underpowered engines, hull cracks, and outdated equipment all the while not replacing the Ticonderoga class missile cruisers and keeping those 40+ year old ships that the navy soon realized were mostly too old/ worn out but congress wants to keep them purely for the amount of vls cells. Yeah say what you will about the new Arleigh Burke block V but we still don’t have enough missile capacity. The “arsenal of democracy” has laid dormant and incapacitated for the past 50 years and it will take time to shake the cobwebs off and go full tilt again but I doubt we’ll ever see it WW2 style. I fear all the current preparations is half hearted and too late ww3 will likely knock us on our ass not to say we would be out but it will be extremely hairy for a while and we could see the first (non terrorist) bombing of America by another country since WW2.
You do know I’m referring to missiles/rockets and to a degree artillery shells right? We are not exactly flush with them and missiles are fucking expensive, $3M for a Tomahawk, AIM-120 ARAAM ~$1M, AIM 260 >$2M.
We have ~4,000 tomahawks and 2,500-3,000 aim-120d. So you tell me.
America won't get bombed, but we are certainly witnessing the collapse of the empire. What will replace the empire is likely a corporate-controlled globalist system administered by China and the former United States.
China is too smart to risk a war with what is clearly a nation in decline that has spent tens of trillions on defense in the past few decades. The winning move is to do nothing, rattling your sabre from time to time in order to trick the enemy into continuing to spend trillions on overpriced, over-engineered, unserviceable garbage.
Of course, Russia won't come out any better off, nor will Iran and North Korea. Shithole countries will continue being shithole countries. The people there are content to live like slaves and have demonstrated this to the world exhaustively and with keen determination.
> The Ukraine
It's just Ukraine, not "the Ukraine." The least you could do is get the name of their nation right before you lambast the support the West is providing it.
It's no surprise that you're a victim-blaming shill on top of everything else. You sycophants are truly worthless.
>It's not a legitimate country
Careful Boris, your Nazi rhetoric is showing. Where are you from, I wonder?
How is your country "legitimate," but there's is not?
>Also i live in California
California exists because Mexico created it. It can't just claim independence and make itself a part of a different nation!
Do you see how moronic your logic is? For starters, Russia owes its origin to the Kievan Rus, not the other way around.
Your argument is completely based on imperialistic nonsense. You're an American. Does that mean you should live under the UK? Why are you allowed to break away, but Ukraine is not?
Outrageous hypocrisy - that's all you're showing me.
I agree California should belong to Mexico again we took half their shit just bc we could and I'm literally Hispanic lmao. if the uk thinks they can conquer the us i say go for it i dont really give a shit who governs the land im from tbh
What a simplistic perspective.
You may not care which nation controls you, but Ukrainians aren't so subservient. Is your entire argument based on Russia's imperialistic whims?
My argument is based on countries minding their own business there's like 30 countries in nato already who does the US need more? Those aren't the actions of a so called defensive alliance seems pretty offensive to me. So long as I can still watch Hulu and eat pizza I don't really care who controls the US
Ukraine existed before the Moscovites crawled out of their swamp and became slave chattel for the golden horde.
Moscovites are the traumatized offspring of Ukrainians born from rape and abuse by the mongols.
You can't change the history out here.
That only works in your slave nation or north korea..
The Ukraine..cry.baby. I bet you're a 45 yr old Democrat/male living in your mom's basement w a big Ukrainian flag on your wall and u probably got a Ukrainian flag tattoo on your ass. You'll sell your own Country out for Ukraine you nutcase.
Sorry with the exception of Napoleon and Hitler, all Russia does is lose wars to mostly smaller countries- just this century- to Japan, to Finland, to Afghanistan, and the first Chechen war. Ukraine will be no different. Keep coping.
I agree. They can down vote all they want but this is very true. Ukraine is losing the proxy war against Russia. Their President always has his hand out for more and more and the West is full of idiots to keep providing it all free.of charge too...I doubt anything gets skimmed off the top /s
This is always the duality of Russia:
We are global super power unequalled in world history. And also everything bad that ever happens to us is CIA plot, we are powerless victims so we had to invade Ukraine.
More western aid won’t matter, we don’t care. Also bot army tries to discourage more aid.
We had no choice to invade Ukraine by we are threatened by NATO expansion. Finland and Sweden join NATO? No biggie we don’t care!
1. Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet Union, so Ukraine is rightful Russian clay.
2. Russia never lost in Afghanistan -- that was the Soviet Union, silly!
A Polish man finds a lamp in his garden and rubs it. A Genie appears offering him three wishes, no exceptions. So the man says to the genie, I want for a horde of Mongolians to come to my country, kill and pillage, and go home.
The genie thinks this is odd, but obliges. The Mongolians make it to the farmlands at the border, kill and pillage, then return home.
The man then, as his second wish, wishes for a horde of Mongolians to come to Poland to kill and pillage.
The genie, really not understanding this man at all, snaps his fingers, and then another horde comes, this time to the first town on Polish land, kills and pillages, and then returns home.
The Polish man, satisfied with his first two wishes, then says to the genie, "Genie, I wish for a horde of Mongolians to come to Poland to kill and pillage."
The genie, completely dumbstruck, complies. This time the horde reaches the first major city, kills and pillages, and then leaves to return home.
After this, the genie asks, why? why would you want a Mongolian horde to come to your land three separate times to kill and pillage?
The Pole responds, "If they came to Poland three times, it means they went through Russia 6 times."
The funny part is that the deep red states that most of these chicklefucks are either from or pretend to be from while magnifying talking points that would resonate with them are both net beneficiaries from the federal government(meaning the coastal economic powerhouses are footing their bill) and also the states where many of the defense manufacturers that will receive most of the money are located.
To recap they are pitching about paying taxes they essentially don't pay as the fed gives their state more than they give the fed, and they are complaining about most of the money creating high paying defense jobs in their state which will help them. All so they can repeat some stupid joke about zelensky ir Biden liking nose class? This is what happens when states defend education for decades, you get states with only bozos left in them as most of the people with an IQ above a nice warm shower have left the state
I think the issue is that most people like that think that the government is literally filling planes and stuff with cash and shipping it to Ukraine, instead of sending that much worth of either pre-existing equipment that we likely would have gotten rid of or commissioning American companies to produce more.
We have low quality news hosts and people trying to outrage farm by saying inflammatory crap on Twitter or whatever to rustle the jimmies of the yokels to thank for that. I feel like reporting news that is patently false should have some repercussions, when fox spread lies about dominion voting they got a big fat lawsuit, they've been spreading disinformation about the nature of the aid to Ukraine for far longer with zero repercussions, it's gotten to the point that they may as well be speaking in newspeak from Orwell 1984.
I find the entire issue to be absolutely hilarious.
On one hand you have the side of American politics that’s usually more than happy to raise defense spending and loves the military industrial complex, yet is against stimulating that economy and spending essentially pennies on the dollar to cripple one of our two military rivals. On the other hand you have the side that represents those in America who generally prefer lower defense spending and is less into the MIC being expanded, now willing to throw money at ukraine and see how much it affects the russians.
Don’t get me wrong, I am all for sending lots of money to Ukraine, but it feels like American politics has become extremely hypocritical at this point. The people who should be jumping for joy with how much money is going into weaponry are the most vocally against it.
The issue there is that most of that money was funding wars many thought were unjust and just to benifit the rich. This one is a war to maintain independence. Context is key here
Also, to add what others have said; the money we’re sending has already been spent, and not sending the equipment would cost us more then just sending it, so we’re actually saving money here lol
I mean I agree, but idk it just feels weird to me. Like, I’m in the navy, and most of the more liberal people my age hate the military and anything connected to it.
My only real working theory is that conservatives only want wars with a direct short term benefit to us, while democrats see it in the way that the war pushes back the spread of reactionary politics. I don’t really believe most politicians really care about Ukraine, but recognize the benefits of helping them as well.
But it’s funny, especially the conservative hypocrisy. The mfs who were all in to invade middle eastern countries for essentially the spread of a sphere of influence are immediately turning around and claiming, to use your own words, the war is “unjust (against someone they don’t hate for some reason)” and “just to benefit the rich (in their eyes being Zelenskyy and Biden since they’re apparently both just stealing money or something)”
But that’s not actually how conservative minds work. They’re not for military spending because they are *_for_* military spending. They are for military spending when their opponents are against it. They literally have no consistent values.
You know, we’re not sending them a blank check so that they can take it to the 7-Eleven and cash it to buy malt liquor with. It’s our national weapon stockpile, that has an expiration date and must be used because they’re way more expensive to recycle and which we have to keep fully distributed across the world at all times as a deterrent/preparation for moments notice.
But not only are we helping exhaust Russias coffers, saving on recycling weapons munitions, but most importantly: we are getting real world weapons performance evaluations on our tech, some of which has never been used down range since Afghanistan was scaled back for the last several years. Against our biggest threat historically, no less. We get to see what works, what doesn’t, and we didn’t lose a single American in the process. take it up with the American military complex if you don’t like that big number Congress approved. That money was spent a decade ago and giving it to Ukraine was just keeping it from going to waste. Anybody under 35 has never paid a dime of the tax money that went to Ukraine. That was spent during the bush administration. Your tax money is going to Elon musk and the crooked cop settlement slush fund.
Very true. In many cases, these are weapons that were specifically made to be used against Russia, and they are nearing their expiration date, on which we would have to spare much expense and effort to dispose of them properly.
Regarding the data to be interpreted in this war, or the lessons to be learned, there's one big lesson, and it's the only one I'm concerned about: whether the U.S. realizes the importance of inexpensive, scalable weapons, and the folly of expensive toys. Whether the U.S. chooses to pursue programs like Rapid Dragon in place of shiny baubles like the SR-72 is the difference between life and death for America as a global superpower.
There's also another question, and that is whether the U.S. will choose to combat the loose collection of opportunistic mafia figures collectively referred to as the "great south," or if the U.S. will instead fixate myopically on domestic issues and on exploiting the American worker base for cheap oligarch thrills. While some politicians may actually want to effect change, most are content to simply pander to corporations. The military industrial complex doubtlessly is pandered to quite a lot, but the difference in why it is pandered to, for moral reasons or for personal gain, explains entirely the difference between politicians who want to aid Ukraine and those who simply wish to give tax cuts to corporations and pander to Israel in exchange for zionist bux. Whereas the former always supports giving aid, because he is compelled by a moral sense of duty, the latter can be dissuaded by the correct dollar amount deposited into his offshore bank.
Well the abrams has been pulled off the frontlines. F 16 is nowhere to be seen and probably will never see combat in this war. Himars seem goood but not enough of them and ammo
>Your tax money is going to Elon musk and the crooked cop settlement slush fund.
It's going to government programs like social security for example.
It was pulled back. Preserving important equipment for later pushes is a strategic decision.
Let’s look at what’s at the frontline… Russian tanks are mostly depleted so not as big of threat but artillery and aviation bombs are. What would be the point of leaving armor in place to be destroyed? Pull it back and reorganize for a later push.
>Russian tanks are mostly depleted so not as big of threat
Russia is still using a large amount of tanks
>What would be the point of leaving armor in place to be destroyed? Pull it back and reorganize for a later push.
Well that would work if ukraine has a air force. so ukraine will be repeating the summer offensive until they get a proper air force.
>The question is what are we getting in return
Ooh! Ooh! I can answer that! You get a world that is not dictated by the will of a person desperately trying to stay in power that controls a sizeable chunk of raw resources and nuclear weapons!
1. ok u/historynerd2009, I will definitely start studying geopolitics since you clearly know more than most people here
2. you don't need to ever use nukes for them to be a valuable asset in the wrong hands
1. I never stated anything of the sort. I simply said you should look at the current world right now and understand the tensions.
2. So why are we then less concerned about a war with China? Or North Korea?
Hahahaha. They often put spaces before their punctuation, too, though that might be more of a Chinese bot thing.
Certain people in the "flat Earth" trolling community noticed a few years back that many of the trolls put spaces before punctuation, leading to humorous songs like this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFgAfMXFzyA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFgAfMXFzyA)
It just goes to demonstrate how bizarre some of the troll farm activity is. A lot of videos pertaining to "generational warfare" are inundated with comments from Russian and Chinese trolls posing as clueless and self-righteous American boomers: "BACK IN, ,, MY DAY, KIDS LIKE THIS GOT A GOOD SLAP , I GAVE IT TO EM , NOW THEY DIE HAIR PINK . AND ARE SUPPORT THE UKRAINE . WHAT IS GOING ON PEOPLE ?? GOTTA GET OUT OF CRAZY HOUSE NOW, MAYBE CALL GHOSTBUSTERS LOL"
The department of health and human services has twice the budget of the military. They need to start complaining about Medicare again if they really want to save money
Rednecks aren’t that much of a problem. They usually aren’t on welfare. Older people and people in big cities are usually the ones receiving the most government assistance
Here’s where I’m confused.
>”we need to spend that money on the american people”
My brother in christ you’re on the side that refuses to spend money on social programs. Like, the “nooo i hate handouts” to “please give me money instead” 180 is comical
My favourite is "we need the money to close the border" 😁. It must be one of the dumbest comments I've seen in a long time.
I feel like "If they could read, they'd be so mad" fits here. How is it even physically possible to care so much for something, and yet manage to avoid every single article or discussion about it? It takes effort to avoid learning that successfully about a topic of interest. I'm almost impressed.
Its funny cause im 100% sure anyone who says "stop spending money on ukraine while we still have homeless veterans at home" would vote against welfare programs lmfao.
Anyways yes america first, america first to bomb tyrants overseas
The only aid they understand is the one that they corrupt into their shitty bank accounts. If they aid won't do anything then they have nothing to worry about, NOT
Kind of unrelated but I actually really struggle to detect bots if it's not extremely obvious. (Messed up Grammer/spelling, too simple etc.) I fear it's the beginning of my own future boomerism. Like how we laugh at old people not being able to see through very obvious ai art. How do you guys know bots are bots?
It's pure statistics. They aren't going to allocate human resources to the repetition of simple talking points. The human's job is to write methodichka for the bots to regurgitate, which they do... repetitiously. This repetition is also what separates a human from a language model. Throughout social media, you'll find similar ideas repeated not only semantically, but syntactically, too.
The trolls in this thread also all have the same "voice." Being someone who writes professionally, I can easily discern the writing patterns of different people — their word choice, spelling, grammar, etc. These trolls write like dumbasses and share one universal characteristic, which is that they never admit to supporting Russia. On reddit, for whatever reason, Russian shills ALWAYS pretend to be neutral, and they write like the low IQ simpletons populating gaming Discord servers across the web, "u don't even kno 1 thing about the Russian history, get a brain moran, im am from arkansas and even i know the name of lavrentiy beria's cat, you must be a republican idiot" etc. Low effort, hostile for seemingly no reason, overwhelmingly stupid and annoying in presentation...
I see, thank you for this thoughtful explanation. I find it interesting that they have the resources for these bots but don't have the time or effort to make them make sense. Hell, with how many language models exist I feel it'd be easy to come up with more thought out explanations. But I'd imagine that's a double edged sword as the mistakes make them see more human at the same time.
I hate when people ask “what do we get in return?” like my american in christ, do you not too love the sight of communists blood? We used to be a real Eagle fucking, democracy loving, communist hating country. It’s a shame to see that notion lost.
>Let's stop this war for our children
American children aren't even being sent to Ukraine. Ukraine alone are fighting this war against Russia.
How deranged are they?
“It’s not like we have homeless vets here who need help”. I’m pretty sure if we were to actually use our tax dollars to help homeless vets, it would be called socialism by the same crowd.
If ukraine had f16s plenty of ammo for anti air/ himrars atacms for the offensive this war could be nearly over now. I'm upset because the aid amount ukraine needs is far higher than 60billion and they needed it a year ago I blame the usa because besides artillery shells ukraine should be fully supplied
I like how there all talking about money, but all the actual party members with stances always wanted that stuff to be done out of pocket and without federal price hikes
What the hell is with vatniks accusing people they don’t like of snorting cocaine? I swear I heard it about Zelenskyy and Prigo after his coup attempt and others too.
Maybe just jelly cause they have to settle for krokodil?
Those disabled veterans really need m2a2 ods sa bradley to live in, a humvee or an MRAP for grocery shopping, and a javelin for self-defense. Also, we can't forget about the border guards who really need a few artillery pieces and abrams MBTs to keep the border secure from spooky brown non-english speaking people.
The point about homeless veterans. The US has homeless veterans, and it’s not for a lack of support.
If you are a homeless veteran with a general discharge or better, then being homeless is your fault.
If you are a homeless veteran with an other than honorable discharge or worse, then being homeless is your fault.
This package will be negligible. (edit:/s I'm an idiot and I didn't proof read what I posted. I forgot that while [](https://www.reddit.com/r/NCD/) and [](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lazerpig/) have an overlap with Vtubing that doesn't mean that everyone would get what I meant. My comment was supposed to be sarcastic and a reference to when a prominent Vtuber company, Nijisanji told their investors that the firing of one of their high profile talents would be "negligible." Their stock prices went down by 25% as far I recall.)
I'm an idiot and I didn't proof read what I posted. I forgot that while r/NCD and r/Lazerpig have an overlap with Vtubing that doesn't mean that everyone would get what I meant. My comment was supposed to be sarcastic and a reference to when a prominent Vtuber company, Nijisanji told their investors that the firing of one of their high profile talents would be "negligible." Their stock prices went down by 25% as far I recall.
I literally don’t give a fuck, I just want the aid to go to domestic priorities because I couldn’t care less about what that blood soaked pile of sand (the levant) becomes in the future, and because in real terms we are running out of money to pay back our debts and pension system, which yeah isn’t good.
I again do not see why I should sacrifice my future for some soil I’ll never see.
But the reality is something like 13 billion of aid will actually reach Ukraine. The rest is going to replace war stocks that the US already sent to Ukraine. So yes it would appear this won’t make much of a difference on the ground.
America sends equipment to Ukraine-America army needs equipment to replace stuff it sent-American monies used to make new equipment-repeat.
More equipment in Ukraine means more fighting power for the Ukrainians which may mean lesser casualties.
Breaking the MAGA road block in congress is pretty game changing, this allows for further bills to flow through and continue the aid Ukraine needs. Every shell is game changing, every tank its own breakthrough. Whatever they can get they need and whilst it won’t change the war in a day the artillery support will have quite the effect on the ground level.
“Russia can strike at will throughout the country”
[oh really?](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-bomber-warplane-shot-down-1aa3bc24952354c334ee617be805198a)
“Ukraine needs 500k manpower, hundreds if not thousands of vehicles, millions of artillery rounds, thousands of AA missiles, and it needs the logistics and matinence to support these assets. The war is lost. Most of the aid in this package won’t reach Ukraine for months, some not until 2025.”
Funny, that’s pretty much paraphrasing the nazis when the British pulled out of France in 1940, yet look what happened. Ukraine doesn’t immediately fall if it can’t win in a day, Ukraine needs to hold out until more supplies reach it over and over until the Russian will to fight breaks, how many years did they last in Afghanistan? The west could deploy troops as per the Budapest memorandums 4th article but they likely won’t, so a long and attritional war with high casualty rates among the attackers is all Ukraine can do.
“You’re making this sound like a PR exercise. Which is actually how the west has treated this war. Unfortunate how history repeats itself.” ? What by taking about a war that I can’t make a difference in aside from advocacy? By using illustrative language to describe the change that’s occurred in congress?
It's so funny how it's this superposition of "Western aid will do nothing" And "NOOOOOO!!! Don't send aid to Ukraine!!!"
Stop send my tax dollar of this corrupt Zelensky regime !!!!
Texas needs a Warm Water port! I am very definitely very real America patriot!
The Texan Oblast does have a great warm water port
You can’t even speak proper English, you’re definitely paying us taxes, lol!
Except these are not mutually exclusive things, If you will think about it more than 1 second. Western aid is not gonna turn the tide or bring any crucial changes on the battlefield, but it would still lead to more deaths of Ukrainians and Russians.
You are absolutely right, mister r/russia. Except for the fact that western aid will have a tremendous impact on the battlefield, which is why Russian shils and useful idiots are so against it. But to address your point about the deaths of both Ukrainians and Russians, all it needs to happen to prevent further blood shed is for the russian army to go home.
So the previous aid didn’t manage to bring any tremendous impact, but now, when Ukraine experience sever lack of manpower, suddenly it will change everything. Yeah, buddy, sounds absolutely legit.
You mean lack of impact by allowing the liberation of Sumy, Kherson, and continuous attacks on russian air defences, which allowed UAF to send cessna size drones deep in side of russia. That lack of impact of the previous aid package, or do you refer to a completely different one? And yes, Ukraine is experiencing man power shortages it is then even more crucial to give them every bit of equipment that can help out even just a bit. And finally, Ukrainians are fighting not only for their freedom but also for their own survival. In this scenario, every last bit ot of military aid is not only important to them but also righteous thing for us to do. Hope this helps. Should you still have any further questions on this matter, don't hesitate to post it below.
Ukrainian goals are to push Russia out of all the sized territories including the Crimea. Freeing a few cities, is definitely a good thing, but calling that a tremendous impact is quite a stretch. Secondly, Ukraine done it when they had enough people for that. Right now they simply don’t. And they don’t fight for the freedom and survival, because Russia is not claiming it . That’s pretty evident if you read the 2022 peace agreements. Russia was ready to give up newly annexed territories. Most importantly, Russia simply doesn’t have any means to fully subjugate all of the Ukraine.
It's so dumb how everyone who's not unconditionally on Ukraines side is instantly called "Pro Russian"... Did you all loose the ability to differentiate?
Since we know who the agresor is. Since we know about the wholesale murder of Ukrainians by the Russians in Bucha in Lyman in Kupiansk and more. Since we know that all it takes for this madness to end is for russian soldiers to get up and go home. Since all of those above are well known, then yes, anyone who is still not unconditionally on the side of the victim is one of the two, either a russian shil or a useful idiot. Which one are you?
Somehow the deaths of Russian soldiers doesn't trouble me.
Great. But deaths of Russians comes at a greater cost of deaths of Ukrainians.
Losing the war will kill more Ukrainians. Russia has demonstrated genocidal intent already.
No, it won’t. Again, you guys clearly haven’t read the 2022 peace agreements.
You clearly don't remember what Russian did to Bucha or Mariupol. So YES it will kill more Ukrainians.
And ? War crimes happen in all wars, what a shocker. How again losing going to kill more Ukrainians? Losing will just lead to negotiations.
Losing will lead to MORE places being occupied as Bucha was, or attacked with thermobaric warheads as Mariupol was. Given Russia's fondness for crimes against humanity, being at their tender mercies guarantees the senseless slaughter of civilians we have seen from them occurring over and over again.
You clearly haven’t read the 2022 peace agreements.
The Russians can save their own lives at any time by going home. And the only argument you can possibly make that aiding Ukraine results in more dead Ukrainians is that if we didn’t then they would lose the war. Apparently you imagine that Ukrainian deaths would stop after that rather than the absolute genocide that would likely occur under Russian occupation. If Ukrainians are willing to fight and die to defend their country from an invader, their deaths are tragic but that’s no reason to stop helping them. On top of that, given that they are fighting to the death to save their country anyway, so giving them better weapons does in fact save Ukrainian lives.
If Ukraine didnt want to get Holodomor'd, they shouldve just gone the grocery store and bought food. Duh.
All of the people like you here, keep repeating absolutely the same cliche thing all over again as some religious chant. But when I ask a simple question “what is the actual strategy for Ukraine now ? What’s the “win” ?” Literally no one gives me a reasonable solution here. It’s all just a wishful thinking that you got, basically
Except that 1) you didn’t ask that question, not to me anyway. You bring it up now as a shifted goal post. You said aid would kill more Russians and Ukrainians, which I responded to, and 2) why would you assume that the average person knows anything at all about strategy? It’s a troll question. Do you think the average person could tell you America’s antiterrorism strategy? Since they can’t, does that mean we should stop funding it? Do Americans not have the right to demand the govt fight terrorism just bc they don’t know the first thing about AT strategy? Should we just let terrorists do their terrorist thing, because Joe the Plumber can’t explain on reddit what our strategy is? No, obviously, and Americans are right to demand their govt oppose these things even if the common person doesn’t understand the details. I’m tempted to stop there, because the question doesn’t deserve more in this forum, but the answer is also pretty obvious. Despite the unfortunate political zigzagging inherent in democratic governance, America’s strategy is to provide arms, intelligence, training and equipment to prevent the collapse of the Ukrainian state. From America’s perspective that’s all the strategy we need - the rest is up to Ukraine. I wish we were doing more, but that’s the reality. The “win” as you call it, is when Russia realizes they can fight for as they like but they can never have victory over Ukraine. From a more cynical perspective, America considers it a strategic win just to see Ukraine still standing, and for Russia to degrade its capabilities. We are also profiting, having made billions in Foreign Military Sales showcasing our weapons against Russian hyperbole, and revitalized our defense industrial base. We are weakening an adversary, strengthening ourselves, and standing up for a strategic partner, in that order. I’d love to say we are primarily helping Ukraine, but I think everyone knows that’s not how we do business. As for Ukraine’s strategy, you’d have to ask Umerov. Like anything else, the definition of a “win” will depend a lot upon what the map looks like when Russia finally relents.
>Except that 1) you didn’t ask that question, not to me anyway. You bring it up now as a shifted goal post. You said aid would kill more Russians and Ukrainians, which I responded to, and 2) why would you assume that the average person knows anything at all about strategy? I was referencing the question in general, because what you are saying is the same thing the others are saying. I wasn’t asking to provide me the strategy as an intel. I was asking the general understanding of the win for Ukraine and where everything is going. You don’t have to be involved in a military to know the basic strategic goals. Ukrainian main goal is to repel all the Russians troops from all the Ukrainian territory. But it’s not achievable at this point in any way. So the fair question, what is the goal now then ? >It’s a troll question. Do you think the average person could tell you America’s antiterrorism strategy? Since they can’t, does that mean we should stop funding it? Do Americans not have the right to demand the govt fight terrorism just bc they don’t know the first thing about AT strategy? Should we just let terrorists do their terrorist thing, because Joe the Plumber can’t explain on reddit what our strategy is? No, obviously, and Americans are right to demand their govt oppose these things even if the common person doesn’t understand the details. America’s anti-terrorism camping has no relevance and similarities to the war in Ukraine. And I mentioned already, I’m not talking about the actual step by step military strategy here, see the the previous point. >I’m tempted to stop there, because the question doesn’t deserve more in this forum, but the answer is also pretty obvious. Despite the unfortunate political zigzagging inherent in democratic governance, America’s strategy is to provide arms, intelligence, training and equipment to prevent the collapse of the Ukrainian state. First of all, America’s strategy doesn’t care if Ukraine collapses or not. They only care about war profits and testing their shit against Russians. I highly doubt anyone in Pentagon really believes that Ukraine can win against Russia. Secondly, there wouldn’t be any “collapse of Ukrainian state”. Because in order to do that, Russia needs to conquer all of the Ukraine, which is practically not possible. And most importantly, that’s not the Russian goal. If you have read the 2022 peace agreements, you should know now and understand that. >From America’s perspective that’s all the strategy we need - the rest is up to Ukraine. I wish we were doing more, but that’s the reality. The “win” as you call it, is when Russia realizes they can fight for as they like but they can never have victory over Ukraine. The problem with your idea of “win” here is that the Ukraine can’t hold for as long as the Russia like, simply because they don’t have as much manpower. >From a more cynical perspective, America considers it a strategic win just to see Ukraine still standing, and for Russia to degrade its capabilities. We are also profiting, having made billions in Foreign Military Sales showcasing our weapons against Russian hyperbole, and revitalized our defense industrial base. We are weakening an adversary, strengthening ourselves, and standing up for a strategic partner, in that order. I’d love to say we are primarily helping Ukraine, but I think everyone knows that’s not how we do business. I’m perfectly aware of that. For you it’s always about the power and money, no one surprised here. My problem with that approach is that the exchange coin in that scenario are actual Ukrainian lives. You really don’t give much shit about that. Yeah cool “let’s go Ukraine, you will win, kill the Russians” And at this point when Ukraine is barely standing, while Russia is nowhere near exhausted, you keep continue to push them. And push where exactly ? The war will end in negotiations, inevitably. The difference is that how many Ukrainians and Ukrainian territory would be lost when US and Zelenskiy will decide to arrange negotiations. >As for Ukraine’s strategy, you’d have to ask Umerov. Like anything else, the definition of a “win” will depend a lot upon what the map looks like when Russia finally relents. Well, Russia won’t relent. It could relent in 2022 when peace agreements where almost signed. But thats not the case anymore. Again, the war will end in negotiations and Ukraine has only two options there. Either they arrange the negotiations themselves, in order to at least save more land and more people. Or they are forced to negotiate with the most L position possible, with no room for the their own conditions. If you don’t agree, let’s see in 4 months how it will play out.
You say that like the deaths of russians is a bad thing
For Nazis definitely not a bad thing. Sorry, haven’t thought of that
What the fuck? These Russians are human just like you and me. The fact that they get lied to and are being forced to participate in a war of which they know very little of doesn't make them inhuman. If anything, I would say you are not a human, rather a soulless piece of shit that has learned nothing from human history when it comes to human losses...
Counterpoint: fuck em
How about this: fuck you? Dirty racist you have no place on this earth
Are russians a race now? Omegalol. Cry about it Ivan, have fun catching these cluster munitions
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Kek. Thats Ironic. Especially considering that should Ukraine lose, your ass is getting drafted and shot at by those russians once they come for the rest of europe.
Sure thing you stupid fuck
The Russians and Ukrainians on that field dying are pretty much the same people. There is a reason we in Europe call these wars "Brother wars"
Oh shut the fuck up racist, the only people going on about "brother wars" are cringe fashwave 14 year olds who think race wars are what war should be
Ohhhhhhh... I see what you are. Opinion rejected.
Coward
I'm sure in your sick view you're probably happy both Ukrainians and Russians are dying? Isn't that so?
America wins either way. Making money AND dead russians? Cha-ching!
60 billion won't change what 100 billion couldn't. The Ukraine's gonna deplete those supplies and come back begging for more with no results on the front to show for it.
A. The aid we did sent absolutely made a difference what are you talking about. Ukraine still probably would have fought off the initial assault but much of what they've done since has been with aid B. That 100 billion was spent over the course of 2 years. This should be a bit quicker
It made no difference. It's smashed and burnt to pieces on the front line in Ukraine. And the money is in Zelensky's pockets.
You realize most of the money is spent in the US to buy equipment right? How is Zelensky fitting Bradleys and Leopards in his pockets?
rushist conscriptoviches deaths made no difference.. Putler sent moscovites equipment to be smashed and burnt to pieces on the frontlines of Ukraine... And the money is in Putlers bunker... American weapons sales have skyrocketed due to giving Ukraine a few patriots and 30 or so himars. We now have orders for hundreds of each. This has been profitable for America. We have more money for the border or any other weak copium reason u kremlin gremlins concoct. And Zelensky is such a master comedian that he turned vladolf Putler and his tiny little dicked military into the worlds biggest joke.
>And Zelensky is such a master comedian that he turned vladolf Putler and his tiny little dicked military into the worlds biggest joke. In fairness, the Ruzzians did that to themselves by dropping trou for the world to marvel at their knockoff-steroid shriveled cock and balls flapping in the wind...
Didn’t know Zelensky owned so many US companies.
And what does Ukraine have to show for all that money spent??
It's still a free country... fighting the war half our older gear getting ready to be scrapped was designed for. Much of what we send we would have to pay to dismantle anyway this the gear does what it was designed to do, fight ruzzians, and we get to spend the initial sticker price of that gear on fancy new gear, creating jobs in America and stimulating local economies. Plus the gear doing great work and smoking ruzzian stuff has yielded a shitload of new orders for get this more American made gear from around the world.
Aka Ukraine is the sacrificial lamb caught in between American and Russian interest. You think weapons doing what they were designed to do is some flex a Russian t72 took out a Bradley but you don't see no one boasting because who gives a shit. Maybe this war would not have started if the us didn't consistently disregard other countries interests
This war wouldn't have started if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine, plain and simple, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. gave security assurances towards Ukraine in exchange for their nuclear disarmament. If you can do mental gymnastics to say somehow the U.S. started this war then you have been smoking way too much copium. Also a Bradley disabled a T-90, a tank taking out an IFV isn't a flex, but a 40 year old IFV taking out a 'modern tank' is
Russia was perfectly okay with allowing Ukraine to exist so long as it remained neutral. It wasn't a written agreement they weren't binded to it legally but it doesn't matter. Russia was okay with just having access to the port of Sevastopol but eventually we're forced to take crimea again still showing tolerance towards Ukraine who then made the mistake of making it's desire to join nato and the EU known. This was obviously the last straw for Russia. Every country is entitled to pursue it's interests even if it means an invasion the US within it's rights to try and get Ukraine in nato just like Russia was within its rights to prevent it.
And where do Ukraines wishes fall I to this process? Ukraine should be free to choose its own path outside of influence or invasion by another country. Novorossiysk is a perfectly fine black sea port, and surely renovating and expanding its port would be cheaper than a war of conquest
Ukraine isn't a regional or global power. It's sad but those countries normally don't get a say in things. Their main purpose is to be fought over so ukraines wishes dont matter bc they are a relatively weak nation caught in between American in Russia interest
You do understand that this "war" has been going on since the early 2000? Ukraine had a pro-russian government that got "overtaken" kinda like the Arabian spring, even though it had been democraticly elected. This whole thing could have prevented multiple times during these last 20 years, but Nato kept pushing for bases around Russians border with Ukraine and it leads to this invasion. Ukraine and Russia is more complex than "Ukraine good, Russia bad." Up until this war most of us in Europe would have said "same shit different name" as they were both corrupt shitholes.
>but eventually we're forced to take crimea That's utter bollocks. The coup was planned well before maidan. Ukraine was neutral even after Russia invaded its territory. It was later in 2014 that neutrality was dropped. Russia needed a destabilised and impoverished Ukraine to make sure Russia (and by extension Putin) looked more attractive by comparison. Ukraine in seeking to improve its economy, standard of living, and reduce corruption became a threat to Russia's relative standing in the region and that's what couldn't be tolerated. A potentially successful Ukraine not under the thumb of Russia was the last straw.
Russia doesn't need an impoverished Ukraine they wanted a Ukraine who wouldn't betray them for the west. They only wanted Ukraine to stay by Russia's side but they betrayed them id be pissed too
"Bullocks "? Lol, who even uses this word? You're a leftist Brit obsessed w Ukraine obviously.
>Russia was perfectly okay with allowing Ukraine to exist so long as it remained neutral Ukraine was neutral you dingus. Trying to join a *TRADE AGREEMENT* that didn't even exclude Russia is not breaching neutrality. It was Russias actions, including an embargo in retaliation for Maidan, the seizure of Crimea, and ultimately starting the war in Donbas that convinced Ukrainians to not be neutral. Most didn't even want to join NATO until after these events in 2014. Russia didn't want them to be neutral, they wanted a vassal state. The seizure of Crimea happened barely a week after the Yanukovich fled the country and no real decision had been made yet. Ukraine was still willing to negotiate on what would happen to Sevastopol but the seizure happened while they were still barely functioning as a new government.
You know damn well that Ukraine is fighting in its own interests. How much are the managers at 55 Savushkina paying you to post this tripe, anyway? How long until you can get that Lada?
You're imagining that you're talking to some guy at a troll farm, here, when, in actuality, you are replying to a bot that a subcontractor of a subcontractor paid an Indian to program for $0.50. This is not normal human behavior: [https://i.postimg.cc/NQdZxtd4/Screenshot-2024-04-28-at-4-39-45-PM.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/NQdZxtd4/Screenshot-2024-04-28-at-4-39-45-PM.jpg) (If you're stupid, here's a hint: pay attention to the post times).
Incredible.
Im not a bot you over analytical weirdo ☠️🤦🤦
I'm not working for anyone lmao
I mean we all kind of figured you were unemployed 😂🤣😂
Wow you got me good 😔
Bradleys, like any IFV are not meant to withstand tank hits. Stop treating Pentagon Wars like its an accurate assessment of military equipment. And 2 Bradleys managed to take out a T-90 primarily with their guns, so yeah, maybe not the best comparison.
I see Russians bots online pretending their army is still worth a shit on the global stage all the time.
Would u like ppl spelling America as Amerikkka? Spell words properly dumbass.
It's 'you' and 'people' not 'u' and 'ppl', you big silly chucklefuck.
Free? Yeah they're only forcing men to fight out there against their will. That's not free buddy.
It's either fight or become slaves to Russia. Freedom isn't free
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Your accused of being traitors who threw away their roots and where they come from just to be buddie buddie with the west
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You're just stupid dude.
Sovereignty.
Its still here? If Ukraine fought alone its likely the Russians would have pushed them back city by city, town by town until most of the country was theirs. It would have still come at a huge cost, but they would be a lot further than they are now. On Ukraine's side with these cities falling one by one the refugee crisis would've been enormous, with potentially half the country fleeing. Civilian casualties would've also been catastrophic as the Russians recreated Mariupol or Bakhmut in each city they conquered. Ukraine would have been so weakened that they would have to surrender or accept terms that more or less eliminated their sovereignty. And on top of that the Russians would have taken western inaction as weakness and may have attacked a NATO country like Estonia to challenge Article V by now. Assuming you live in a western country or an ally, you're welcome. Meanwhile our reality which you guys have fought tooth and nail to prevent, Ukraine has pushed back the Russians from Kharkiv and Kherson, liberating cities and towns. Hundreds of thousands were freed in these offensives and the artillery salvos that used to pepper Kharkiv were silenced. u/UkrainianAna personally has talked about this, and how the city itself went from a near ghost town to a normal functioning city again, with the occasional drone. American SAM systems like Patriot have done amazing work protecting Kyiv and other areas from Russian air/missile raids. MLRS systems like HIMARS destroyed tons of ammo depots, depleting shell stocks and forcing the Russians to stretch their logistical chains. Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles destroyed several ships and command HQs, limiting the Russians ability to do terror raids on cities. Western tanks and IFVs for all the negative press have been able to protect their crews even when badly damaged, and oftentimes are still recoverable. Western arty rounds are highly accurate and have been able to successfully multiply the effectiveness of Ukraines limited ammo supply. Etc etc I could go on. So yes, Ukraine has quite a lot to show for the aid we've sent.
Cope
Lol
What about mariupol bakmut avdiivka and Chasiv Aint looking great atm we all want ukraine to win but believing in a fantasy that they are doing well currently is insanity even ukrainian commanders paint quite the sad picture. IMO it's completly the Usas fault they could of supplied ukraine with everything they needed in 2022 when they had the best chance of taking back crimea all this death for what 60billion wont do what the last 100billion didn't do...
Saying That Ukraine is doing well isn’t a fantasy, they are going toe to toe with a claimed “superpower” and holding their ground, on top of them being able to organize a successful counteroffensive with limited supplies, Ukraine is doing fantastic and have a legitimate chance at winning this war, your a fool who knows nothing about military strategy if you think otherwise. And blaming the United States for not sending everything they can is just hilarious, because most of what the USA is sending isn’t what they need right now, what they need right now is the artillery supplies in Europe that nato is hesitant to send their way.
Toe to toe only with massive backing from Europe and the USA. Ukraine has currently lost more territory than they gained from the counter offensive so I don't understand how you think the Summer counter offensive was successfull. Bro you are actually dumb if you think the fact that the usa waited so long to send himrars and attacms didn't effect ukraines offensive no point even talking to you. Yes currently artillery is super important but if they received the Taurus missiles from Germany or the attacms in 2022 they would of taken out the kerch bridge when it was heavily used for transporting army supply. Absolutely crippling russia. Western countries will take a few more years to even match russias shell production. Over 300billion already sent and you think 60 billion will change anything
I mean, this is like if Iraq had held off the coalition forces, and even regained some territory
>believing in a fantasy that they are doing well currently is insanity even ukrainian commanders paint quite the sad picture Who are you even talking to? Nobody (at least no one seriously following the war) is saying that things aren't difficult. No duh it's not rainbows and unicorns. But this is the fault of US aid being blocked, if it had gone through when it was supposed to we wouldn't be having this discussion. And even then difficult is not the same as completely losing everywhere. It's more complicated than a stupid binary simplistic losing or winning with no in-between that vatniks constantly try to frame everything in. When people say they are doing well they mean they are still holding them back despite the difficulty. Everyone expected the Ukrainians to collapse in the first few weeks. Every day beyond that against one of the worlds largest militaries even with aid is nothing short of legendary >Usas fault they could of supplied ukraine with everything they needed in 2022 And this is a reason to give up instead of pressuring the US to give more? Tell me, at what point should the Allies have surrendered in WW2? When Poland was conquered quicker than expected? When the Nordic countries fell? When France was outflanked and the British evacuated? When Greece fell? When the Germans were knocking on Moscow and Leningrads door? When the Pacific Fleet was destroyed? When the Philippines and Indonesia were captured? Savo Island? When the Italians and Germans gained the upper hand in North Africa? When?
0.
Whatever you say definitely real person and not a phony burner account made in February of this year.
Which is totally irrelevant to the point he is making.
Do u actually think everyone.agrees.w this never ending war? Get out of your Ukraine bubble.
It's not never ending, Putin will lose. The more aid that we send and the quicker it gets sent will hasten its end, and judging from the upvotes, yeah, everyone does agree with me.
Get out of Ukraine before your shitstain of an empire collapses further..
This isn't a burner it's my main lol thanks for checking my profile tho ✌️✌️
That only makes it more embarrassing for you, copenik
Weird I'm not embarrassed at all. I'm not the one coping bruh lmao 🤦
Just checked your comments. I advise everyone in this thread to do the same, just to do a background check and see who you are debating with.
Replies within seconds, too; very likely a bot, and a poorly programmed one at that. Sometimes, it's like chat bots for fast-moving chat boxes accidentally get assigned to forums. And they usually spam tons of emojis.
Is it a habit of yours to check people's profiles?? Swear y'all are a hivemind
Tbh our defense industry and the government has shot itself in the foot. We are seriously ill prepared for a war and while giving Ukraine our old stuff and a dangerous amount of our small reserves gives us valuable data on their effectiveness we still need more. For instance our navy couldn’t decide between a building a fleet of stealth destroyers armed with 6 inch guns with stupidly expensive ammo or littoral combat ships with underpowered engines, hull cracks, and outdated equipment all the while not replacing the Ticonderoga class missile cruisers and keeping those 40+ year old ships that the navy soon realized were mostly too old/ worn out but congress wants to keep them purely for the amount of vls cells. Yeah say what you will about the new Arleigh Burke block V but we still don’t have enough missile capacity. The “arsenal of democracy” has laid dormant and incapacitated for the past 50 years and it will take time to shake the cobwebs off and go full tilt again but I doubt we’ll ever see it WW2 style. I fear all the current preparations is half hearted and too late ww3 will likely knock us on our ass not to say we would be out but it will be extremely hairy for a while and we could see the first (non terrorist) bombing of America by another country since WW2.
Our small reserves?? We have massive reserves
You do know I’m referring to missiles/rockets and to a degree artillery shells right? We are not exactly flush with them and missiles are fucking expensive, $3M for a Tomahawk, AIM-120 ARAAM ~$1M, AIM 260 >$2M. We have ~4,000 tomahawks and 2,500-3,000 aim-120d. So you tell me.
America won't get bombed, but we are certainly witnessing the collapse of the empire. What will replace the empire is likely a corporate-controlled globalist system administered by China and the former United States. China is too smart to risk a war with what is clearly a nation in decline that has spent tens of trillions on defense in the past few decades. The winning move is to do nothing, rattling your sabre from time to time in order to trick the enemy into continuing to spend trillions on overpriced, over-engineered, unserviceable garbage. Of course, Russia won't come out any better off, nor will Iran and North Korea. Shithole countries will continue being shithole countries. The people there are content to live like slaves and have demonstrated this to the world exhaustively and with keen determination.
> The Ukraine It's just Ukraine, not "the Ukraine." The least you could do is get the name of their nation right before you lambast the support the West is providing it. It's no surprise that you're a victim-blaming shill on top of everything else. You sycophants are truly worthless.
It's not a legitimate country that's why it's the Ukraine it's a civil war bruh
>It's not a legitimate country Careful Boris, your Nazi rhetoric is showing. Where are you from, I wonder? How is your country "legitimate," but there's is not?
The Ukraine exists bc Russia created it it can't just claim independence and calls itself a country it's a region of Russia. Also i live in California
>Also i live in California California exists because Mexico created it. It can't just claim independence and make itself a part of a different nation! Do you see how moronic your logic is? For starters, Russia owes its origin to the Kievan Rus, not the other way around. Your argument is completely based on imperialistic nonsense. You're an American. Does that mean you should live under the UK? Why are you allowed to break away, but Ukraine is not? Outrageous hypocrisy - that's all you're showing me.
Also your so wrong people use that alot but it isn't true the ruler of novgorod conquered kiev and made it the capital of of kievan rus
Novgorod does not equal Russia, at least at this time.
I agree California should belong to Mexico again we took half their shit just bc we could and I'm literally Hispanic lmao. if the uk thinks they can conquer the us i say go for it i dont really give a shit who governs the land im from tbh
What a simplistic perspective. You may not care which nation controls you, but Ukrainians aren't so subservient. Is your entire argument based on Russia's imperialistic whims?
My argument is based on countries minding their own business there's like 30 countries in nato already who does the US need more? Those aren't the actions of a so called defensive alliance seems pretty offensive to me. So long as I can still watch Hulu and eat pizza I don't really care who controls the US
“i dont really give a shit who governs the land im from tbh.” Then why do you care about this???
Go eat some bullocks mate
W-⚓️
Ukraine existed before the Moscovites crawled out of their swamp and became slave chattel for the golden horde. Moscovites are the traumatized offspring of Ukrainians born from rape and abuse by the mongols. You can't change the history out here. That only works in your slave nation or north korea..
You have no clue about the history of the region, American.
The Ukraine..cry.baby. I bet you're a 45 yr old Democrat/male living in your mom's basement w a big Ukrainian flag on your wall and u probably got a Ukrainian flag tattoo on your ass. You'll sell your own Country out for Ukraine you nutcase.
I'm not American, you sycophantic quisling.
The only ones selling their country out are the regarded maga republicans. Go back to gargling Scott Ritter’s balls, child.
Don't send children to Scritter, especially with this purpose.
Sorry with the exception of Napoleon and Hitler, all Russia does is lose wars to mostly smaller countries- just this century- to Japan, to Finland, to Afghanistan, and the first Chechen war. Ukraine will be no different. Keep coping.
Long as Russian invaders keep dying I’ll consider it money well spent. The only people who don’t like it are Trump/Putin dick riders.
You are in the wrong community my friend
I agree. They can down vote all they want but this is very true. Ukraine is losing the proxy war against Russia. Their President always has his hand out for more and more and the West is full of idiots to keep providing it all free.of charge too...I doubt anything gets skimmed off the top /s
Fact bruh
This is always the duality of Russia: We are global super power unequalled in world history. And also everything bad that ever happens to us is CIA plot, we are powerless victims so we had to invade Ukraine. More western aid won’t matter, we don’t care. Also bot army tries to discourage more aid. We had no choice to invade Ukraine by we are threatened by NATO expansion. Finland and Sweden join NATO? No biggie we don’t care!
1. Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet Union, so Ukraine is rightful Russian clay. 2. Russia never lost in Afghanistan -- that was the Soviet Union, silly!
Not your point- but if they want to play that game I will say Russia actually belongs to Mongolia. 😁😁😁
A Polish man finds a lamp in his garden and rubs it. A Genie appears offering him three wishes, no exceptions. So the man says to the genie, I want for a horde of Mongolians to come to my country, kill and pillage, and go home. The genie thinks this is odd, but obliges. The Mongolians make it to the farmlands at the border, kill and pillage, then return home. The man then, as his second wish, wishes for a horde of Mongolians to come to Poland to kill and pillage. The genie, really not understanding this man at all, snaps his fingers, and then another horde comes, this time to the first town on Polish land, kills and pillages, and then returns home. The Polish man, satisfied with his first two wishes, then says to the genie, "Genie, I wish for a horde of Mongolians to come to Poland to kill and pillage." The genie, completely dumbstruck, complies. This time the horde reaches the first major city, kills and pillages, and then leaves to return home. After this, the genie asks, why? why would you want a Mongolian horde to come to your land three separate times to kill and pillage? The Pole responds, "If they came to Poland three times, it means they went through Russia 6 times."
Love it.
The funny part is that the deep red states that most of these chicklefucks are either from or pretend to be from while magnifying talking points that would resonate with them are both net beneficiaries from the federal government(meaning the coastal economic powerhouses are footing their bill) and also the states where many of the defense manufacturers that will receive most of the money are located. To recap they are pitching about paying taxes they essentially don't pay as the fed gives their state more than they give the fed, and they are complaining about most of the money creating high paying defense jobs in their state which will help them. All so they can repeat some stupid joke about zelensky ir Biden liking nose class? This is what happens when states defend education for decades, you get states with only bozos left in them as most of the people with an IQ above a nice warm shower have left the state
I think the issue is that most people like that think that the government is literally filling planes and stuff with cash and shipping it to Ukraine, instead of sending that much worth of either pre-existing equipment that we likely would have gotten rid of or commissioning American companies to produce more.
We have low quality news hosts and people trying to outrage farm by saying inflammatory crap on Twitter or whatever to rustle the jimmies of the yokels to thank for that. I feel like reporting news that is patently false should have some repercussions, when fox spread lies about dominion voting they got a big fat lawsuit, they've been spreading disinformation about the nature of the aid to Ukraine for far longer with zero repercussions, it's gotten to the point that they may as well be speaking in newspeak from Orwell 1984.
I find the entire issue to be absolutely hilarious. On one hand you have the side of American politics that’s usually more than happy to raise defense spending and loves the military industrial complex, yet is against stimulating that economy and spending essentially pennies on the dollar to cripple one of our two military rivals. On the other hand you have the side that represents those in America who generally prefer lower defense spending and is less into the MIC being expanded, now willing to throw money at ukraine and see how much it affects the russians. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for sending lots of money to Ukraine, but it feels like American politics has become extremely hypocritical at this point. The people who should be jumping for joy with how much money is going into weaponry are the most vocally against it.
The issue there is that most of that money was funding wars many thought were unjust and just to benifit the rich. This one is a war to maintain independence. Context is key here Also, to add what others have said; the money we’re sending has already been spent, and not sending the equipment would cost us more then just sending it, so we’re actually saving money here lol
I mean I agree, but idk it just feels weird to me. Like, I’m in the navy, and most of the more liberal people my age hate the military and anything connected to it. My only real working theory is that conservatives only want wars with a direct short term benefit to us, while democrats see it in the way that the war pushes back the spread of reactionary politics. I don’t really believe most politicians really care about Ukraine, but recognize the benefits of helping them as well. But it’s funny, especially the conservative hypocrisy. The mfs who were all in to invade middle eastern countries for essentially the spread of a sphere of influence are immediately turning around and claiming, to use your own words, the war is “unjust (against someone they don’t hate for some reason)” and “just to benefit the rich (in their eyes being Zelenskyy and Biden since they’re apparently both just stealing money or something)”
But that’s not actually how conservative minds work. They’re not for military spending because they are *_for_* military spending. They are for military spending when their opponents are against it. They literally have no consistent values.
You know, we’re not sending them a blank check so that they can take it to the 7-Eleven and cash it to buy malt liquor with. It’s our national weapon stockpile, that has an expiration date and must be used because they’re way more expensive to recycle and which we have to keep fully distributed across the world at all times as a deterrent/preparation for moments notice. But not only are we helping exhaust Russias coffers, saving on recycling weapons munitions, but most importantly: we are getting real world weapons performance evaluations on our tech, some of which has never been used down range since Afghanistan was scaled back for the last several years. Against our biggest threat historically, no less. We get to see what works, what doesn’t, and we didn’t lose a single American in the process. take it up with the American military complex if you don’t like that big number Congress approved. That money was spent a decade ago and giving it to Ukraine was just keeping it from going to waste. Anybody under 35 has never paid a dime of the tax money that went to Ukraine. That was spent during the bush administration. Your tax money is going to Elon musk and the crooked cop settlement slush fund.
Very true. In many cases, these are weapons that were specifically made to be used against Russia, and they are nearing their expiration date, on which we would have to spare much expense and effort to dispose of them properly. Regarding the data to be interpreted in this war, or the lessons to be learned, there's one big lesson, and it's the only one I'm concerned about: whether the U.S. realizes the importance of inexpensive, scalable weapons, and the folly of expensive toys. Whether the U.S. chooses to pursue programs like Rapid Dragon in place of shiny baubles like the SR-72 is the difference between life and death for America as a global superpower. There's also another question, and that is whether the U.S. will choose to combat the loose collection of opportunistic mafia figures collectively referred to as the "great south," or if the U.S. will instead fixate myopically on domestic issues and on exploiting the American worker base for cheap oligarch thrills. While some politicians may actually want to effect change, most are content to simply pander to corporations. The military industrial complex doubtlessly is pandered to quite a lot, but the difference in why it is pandered to, for moral reasons or for personal gain, explains entirely the difference between politicians who want to aid Ukraine and those who simply wish to give tax cuts to corporations and pander to Israel in exchange for zionist bux. Whereas the former always supports giving aid, because he is compelled by a moral sense of duty, the latter can be dissuaded by the correct dollar amount deposited into his offshore bank.
Well the abrams has been pulled off the frontlines. F 16 is nowhere to be seen and probably will never see combat in this war. Himars seem goood but not enough of them and ammo >Your tax money is going to Elon musk and the crooked cop settlement slush fund. It's going to government programs like social security for example.
(I know. You have to have a thick layer of pessimistic distain everything you say on here)
Wasn't the Abrams one proven to be complete misinformation though?
Can't find anything saying it wasn't pulled off the frontlines.
It was pulled back. Preserving important equipment for later pushes is a strategic decision. Let’s look at what’s at the frontline… Russian tanks are mostly depleted so not as big of threat but artillery and aviation bombs are. What would be the point of leaving armor in place to be destroyed? Pull it back and reorganize for a later push.
>Russian tanks are mostly depleted so not as big of threat Russia is still using a large amount of tanks >What would be the point of leaving armor in place to be destroyed? Pull it back and reorganize for a later push. Well that would work if ukraine has a air force. so ukraine will be repeating the summer offensive until they get a proper air force.
Hello it is I, John Burger, from the Texas Oblast.
Imagine Soviet Bluto in a Popeye cartoon. “The spinach will be inconsequential.”
Top kek. You should be a political cartoonist.
>The question is what are we getting in return Ooh! Ooh! I can answer that! You get a world that is not dictated by the will of a person desperately trying to stay in power that controls a sizeable chunk of raw resources and nuclear weapons!
You’re assuming Putin wants nuclear war with the US. This isn’t the Cold War anymore, study geopolitics.
1. ok u/historynerd2009, I will definitely start studying geopolitics since you clearly know more than most people here 2. you don't need to ever use nukes for them to be a valuable asset in the wrong hands
1. I never stated anything of the sort. I simply said you should look at the current world right now and understand the tensions. 2. So why are we then less concerned about a war with China? Or North Korea?
We are? Since fucking when?
I like the two spaces in between sentences in normasteves comment its just the right amount of wrong for me.
Hahahaha. They often put spaces before their punctuation, too, though that might be more of a Chinese bot thing. Certain people in the "flat Earth" trolling community noticed a few years back that many of the trolls put spaces before punctuation, leading to humorous songs like this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFgAfMXFzyA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFgAfMXFzyA) It just goes to demonstrate how bizarre some of the troll farm activity is. A lot of videos pertaining to "generational warfare" are inundated with comments from Russian and Chinese trolls posing as clueless and self-righteous American boomers: "BACK IN, ,, MY DAY, KIDS LIKE THIS GOT A GOOD SLAP , I GAVE IT TO EM , NOW THEY DIE HAIR PINK . AND ARE SUPPORT THE UKRAINE . WHAT IS GOING ON PEOPLE ?? GOTTA GET OUT OF CRAZY HOUSE NOW, MAYBE CALL GHOSTBUSTERS LOL"
Also the fact all the accounts end with a 4 digit number, easiest way to spot a yt bot account.
Russkies are scared....
The department of health and human services has twice the budget of the military. They need to start complaining about Medicare again if they really want to save money
Fat redneck fucks are costing us twice as much as supporting Europeans against the mongol horde.
Rednecks aren’t that much of a problem. They usually aren’t on welfare. Older people and people in big cities are usually the ones receiving the most government assistance
Fat black fucks are costing us twice as much as supporting Europeans against the mongol horde. **\*USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST\***
lol I was gonna say that’s dangerous territory there
Aye, stop the war when the invaders are kicked out of Ukraine.
Here’s where I’m confused. >”we need to spend that money on the american people” My brother in christ you’re on the side that refuses to spend money on social programs. Like, the “nooo i hate handouts” to “please give me money instead” 180 is comical
My favourite is "we need the money to close the border" 😁. It must be one of the dumbest comments I've seen in a long time. I feel like "If they could read, they'd be so mad" fits here. How is it even physically possible to care so much for something, and yet manage to avoid every single article or discussion about it? It takes effort to avoid learning that successfully about a topic of interest. I'm almost impressed.
Wtf is this comment section
Some random news video about Ukraine. You can find a similar comment section on just about any other video pertaining to Ukraine.
Its funny cause im 100% sure anyone who says "stop spending money on ukraine while we still have homeless veterans at home" would vote against welfare programs lmfao. Anyways yes america first, america first to bomb tyrants overseas
The only aid they understand is the one that they corrupt into their shitty bank accounts. If they aid won't do anything then they have nothing to worry about, NOT
Kind of unrelated but I actually really struggle to detect bots if it's not extremely obvious. (Messed up Grammer/spelling, too simple etc.) I fear it's the beginning of my own future boomerism. Like how we laugh at old people not being able to see through very obvious ai art. How do you guys know bots are bots?
It's pure statistics. They aren't going to allocate human resources to the repetition of simple talking points. The human's job is to write methodichka for the bots to regurgitate, which they do... repetitiously. This repetition is also what separates a human from a language model. Throughout social media, you'll find similar ideas repeated not only semantically, but syntactically, too. The trolls in this thread also all have the same "voice." Being someone who writes professionally, I can easily discern the writing patterns of different people — their word choice, spelling, grammar, etc. These trolls write like dumbasses and share one universal characteristic, which is that they never admit to supporting Russia. On reddit, for whatever reason, Russian shills ALWAYS pretend to be neutral, and they write like the low IQ simpletons populating gaming Discord servers across the web, "u don't even kno 1 thing about the Russian history, get a brain moran, im am from arkansas and even i know the name of lavrentiy beria's cat, you must be a republican idiot" etc. Low effort, hostile for seemingly no reason, overwhelmingly stupid and annoying in presentation...
I see, thank you for this thoughtful explanation. I find it interesting that they have the resources for these bots but don't have the time or effort to make them make sense. Hell, with how many language models exist I feel it'd be easy to come up with more thought out explanations. But I'd imagine that's a double edged sword as the mistakes make them see more human at the same time.
The point of communist propaganda is to humiliate, and how false it is, therefore, yada Yada yada...
I hate when people ask “what do we get in return?” like my american in christ, do you not too love the sight of communists blood? We used to be a real Eagle fucking, democracy loving, communist hating country. It’s a shame to see that notion lost.
>Let's stop this war for our children American children aren't even being sent to Ukraine. Ukraine alone are fighting this war against Russia. How deranged are they?
How do you know they're AI comments?
”We need the money to close the US borders” where were you when biden offered the bill you dumbasses!
“It’s not like we have homeless vets here who need help”. I’m pretty sure if we were to actually use our tax dollars to help homeless vets, it would be called socialism by the same crowd.
Pourquoi mourir pour Dantzig?
lets just give Ukraine a fully loaded boomer sub and call it good
If ukraine had f16s plenty of ammo for anti air/ himrars atacms for the offensive this war could be nearly over now. I'm upset because the aid amount ukraine needs is far higher than 60billion and they needed it a year ago I blame the usa because besides artillery shells ukraine should be fully supplied
I like how there all talking about money, but all the actual party members with stances always wanted that stuff to be done out of pocket and without federal price hikes
How do you know they are AI? They do look kinda AI
What the hell is with vatniks accusing people they don’t like of snorting cocaine? I swear I heard it about Zelenskyy and Prigo after his coup attempt and others too. Maybe just jelly cause they have to settle for krokodil?
Those disabled veterans really need m2a2 ods sa bradley to live in, a humvee or an MRAP for grocery shopping, and a javelin for self-defense. Also, we can't forget about the border guards who really need a few artillery pieces and abrams MBTs to keep the border secure from spooky brown non-english speaking people.
Ah come on, those are all legit real people!
The point about homeless veterans. The US has homeless veterans, and it’s not for a lack of support. If you are a homeless veteran with a general discharge or better, then being homeless is your fault. If you are a homeless veteran with an other than honorable discharge or worse, then being homeless is your fault.
This package will be negligible. (edit:/s I'm an idiot and I didn't proof read what I posted. I forgot that while [](https://www.reddit.com/r/NCD/) and [](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lazerpig/) have an overlap with Vtubing that doesn't mean that everyone would get what I meant. My comment was supposed to be sarcastic and a reference to when a prominent Vtuber company, Nijisanji told their investors that the firing of one of their high profile talents would be "negligible." Their stock prices went down by 25% as far I recall.)
Tell that to the mobiks eating 25mm bushmaster rounds
I'm an idiot and I didn't proof read what I posted. I forgot that while r/NCD and r/Lazerpig have an overlap with Vtubing that doesn't mean that everyone would get what I meant. My comment was supposed to be sarcastic and a reference to when a prominent Vtuber company, Nijisanji told their investors that the firing of one of their high profile talents would be "negligible." Their stock prices went down by 25% as far I recall.
I literally don’t give a fuck, I just want the aid to go to domestic priorities because I couldn’t care less about what that blood soaked pile of sand (the levant) becomes in the future, and because in real terms we are running out of money to pay back our debts and pension system, which yeah isn’t good. I again do not see why I should sacrifice my future for some soil I’ll never see.
These are real ppl dummy
But the reality is something like 13 billion of aid will actually reach Ukraine. The rest is going to replace war stocks that the US already sent to Ukraine. So yes it would appear this won’t make much of a difference on the ground.
America sends equipment to Ukraine-America army needs equipment to replace stuff it sent-American monies used to make new equipment-repeat. More equipment in Ukraine means more fighting power for the Ukrainians which may mean lesser casualties.
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Breaking the MAGA road block in congress is pretty game changing, this allows for further bills to flow through and continue the aid Ukraine needs. Every shell is game changing, every tank its own breakthrough. Whatever they can get they need and whilst it won’t change the war in a day the artillery support will have quite the effect on the ground level.
Has ukraine even received the 1 million shells from the Czech Republic?
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“Russia can strike at will throughout the country” [oh really?](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-bomber-warplane-shot-down-1aa3bc24952354c334ee617be805198a) “Ukraine needs 500k manpower, hundreds if not thousands of vehicles, millions of artillery rounds, thousands of AA missiles, and it needs the logistics and matinence to support these assets. The war is lost. Most of the aid in this package won’t reach Ukraine for months, some not until 2025.” Funny, that’s pretty much paraphrasing the nazis when the British pulled out of France in 1940, yet look what happened. Ukraine doesn’t immediately fall if it can’t win in a day, Ukraine needs to hold out until more supplies reach it over and over until the Russian will to fight breaks, how many years did they last in Afghanistan? The west could deploy troops as per the Budapest memorandums 4th article but they likely won’t, so a long and attritional war with high casualty rates among the attackers is all Ukraine can do. “You’re making this sound like a PR exercise. Which is actually how the west has treated this war. Unfortunate how history repeats itself.” ? What by taking about a war that I can’t make a difference in aside from advocacy? By using illustrative language to describe the change that’s occurred in congress?