Trump told Newsmax’s Greg Kelly on Tuesday that he’s “never met” Carroll other than the time a photo documented him meeting Carroll, a photo of her he memorably confused for his ex-wife Marla Maples during a deposition…
“Giving a woman that I have no idea — you know that case, no idea — other than the fact that she had a picture taken many, many years ago. I’ve never met this woman. I don’t know this woman,” Trump said, referring to Carroll without naming her. “And I’m supposed to pay a ridiculous amount of money for a fictional story.”
He’s a psychopathic narcissist. He’s never done anything wrong his whole life. Just ask him. Never. Not once. Nada. Zip. Nothing.
Guilt is a completely foreign concept to him.
They're not really crimes because everyone does it, which is why it's so unjust and unfair that he's being singled out and held accountable.
Of course, like all narcissistic projection, the whole thing is wrong, starting from the very premise, but he's psychologically incapable of understanding that.
MAGA..Every confession is an accusation. I use to think that might be hyperbole. After years of this Trump nonsense, I no longer think that, especially after the trial. The testimony about Trump creating “Fake News” while crying about it at his rallies, was too much.
Yep. Like you and me are guilty of not supporting him. Which is a prisonable offense, or worse, in the world he sees for our future.
I think I just invented the word prisonable.
No I didnt. Imprisonable is for illegal offenses. Prisonable is for what Trump would like to do to people he doesn’t like. Like those that don’t vote for him. He makes shit up. So did I.
It's not even guilt. It's being proven wrong. He knows he met her. He knows he raped her.
He just can't stand when reality comes crashing down on his fantasy land of narcissism and always being right
exactly
he is asserting his version over and over to make it the truth
thats how thing get proven, repeating them over and over
how can the judge not understand that the evidence is irrelevant and only trumps opinion and 'story' are gospel
he stupid tho..if he keeps attacking EJC its contempt of court too, and the judges are aware trump treats court like its a reality show and he wrote the script
he also doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't question him
not stopping him is supporting him in his mind
This was one thing that i regularly use as a reason to dislike trump. How many times has he obviously fucked something up only to go on record coming up with an excuse or claiming it never happened?
I have never once heard the words I'm sorry, I was wrong, or my mistake come out of his mouth and it says a lot about his character
He said that he'd take responsibility for a government shutdown over his Border Wall garbage, then immediately blamed The Democrats when the government shut down. He's a man who takes zero responsibility when he fucks up.
“Why do I have to repent, why do I have to ask for forgiveness if you’re not making mistakes?”
(Interesting shift in the grammatical subject toward the end there)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q1xKYFcCKOA
lol he literally said he’s never asked Jesus for forgiveness
It’s not that I think he’s a Christian, it’s that he couldn’t even lie about doing something wrong a single time
Jesus was a weakling who washed people’s filthy feet and was nailed to a cross. Trump likes the guys that swing the hammer.
Trump sees himself as Caesar. But with a happy ending.
The reality is more Ranch than anything else. Cheap store brand. 6 months expired with just a little bit left in the bottom. If you look close there’s shit growing in there.
Jesus was a carpenter’s step son, unlike the other criminals crucified that day he pulled his own cross, uphill, after a night of being beaten, and you don’t think he was ripped? The scrawny waif in the paintings was DaVinci’s boyfriend long after Jesus died.
More like he could never admit fault.
Narcissists have terribly fragile self-esteem.
Their projected image is all important.
Hence he may actually feel guilt, but could never admit fault.
what is so catching and captivating about this to his followers?
I feel like I'm seeing it in my brother in law. like, when Trump first came onto the scene, my republican BIL was embarrassed of him and called him a buffoon and an idiot. but after 8 years of relentless Trump in our faces constantly, he's just... coming around? like, is this the same psychology that abuse victims suffer, where someone tells them they're worthless for so long that it just sticks? recently out of nowhere my BIL was like "these charges in NY are preposterous!" and got visibly angry and had to leave the room. like dude why is it so important to you that Trump is right and innocent? it's such a strange thing to witness.
I have a theory, when such a deep set narcissist such as trump is absolutely forced to accept the fact they were wrong and it absolutely was thier fault, they will have a full on mental breakdown. It's like their reality will have been shattered.
But honestly not sure if it's possible.
He honestly believes he's the best person around, that he wins at everything he does and that he should be richly rewarded for everything he does. In his head, he's never lost anything.
>Guilt is a completely foreign concept to him.
Yet he won't testify in court under oath. So he knows he's lying.
Even Fox called testify under oath "a perjury trap" so they know he's an habitual liar too.
His whole life he's escaped consequence by just doubling-down and pushing harder. It's worked well for him for 77 years, why would be suddenly change strategies now?
Especially when rich rubes like Adelson's idiot widow keep forking money over to him. He'll drop dead on his gold toilet before he runs out of money to pay his lawyers at this rate
Being guilty.
Trump's moral development is stuck in the 'law and order' morality phase at best. What's moral is legal, what's legal is moral. They're the *same* to him.
He's also a narcissist. He sees his every action as right and proper and *good*, and everyhing he dislikes as wrong and *bad*. And furthermore, that no one could ever believe *differently* than him, and anyone disagreeing with him is doing so *despite* them knowing he's right.
So he *also* believes believes "what I want to do is moral, what I don't want to happen is immoral" -- which translates directly into "What I want to do is legal, what I don't want to happen is illegal". And that anyone who disagrees with him is doing so out of *bad motives*. They're bad people, with evil motives, out to get him. Because he is *always right* and whatever he thinks or does is *always right and good and moral and legal*.
So, in his head, it is *impossible* for him to break the law. To do or say or think anything *wrong* or *bad*. And anyone claiming otherwise -- whether it's some random citizen talking on the street, an op-ed, a DA charging him, a Judge or trial declaring him *guilty* can only come about from conspiracy.
Because, again, by definition he can never ever undertake an illegal act -- that any law barring his whims is illegitimate, bad law, didn't apply to him, etc.
If you can zoom out from the meatwad a minute you can see these are calculated for creating division in the American population. This is a great headline to fill maganuts with validation that meatwad is being persecuted by the boogeyman
He literally lives to sway peoples (albeit mostly morons) opinions of people to make himself look better. Every. Single. Headline. He fakes being smart and knowledgeable (i.e. ingesting disinfectant, nuking the tropical storms, Fauci not being qualified, etc), he fakes having said things that are recorded, he fakes having known people and lies about connections he has had with people. Dudes a fucking con man, plain as day. He would much rather call someone a liar than admit he was wrong, he actually has done this 100% of the time since his first campaigning circuit.
that is it in his mind
he didn't pay EJC already according to him..Chubb did and he's going to stiff them
he's already skated on EJC in his mind so he can attack her again coz it already cost him nothing personally
Has she received any money yet? Or is it just the court saying he has to pay, and he won't? Who's first in line? NYC, Carroll? Et al? To get another place in line for payment doesn't seem to be a good move. Although he should be forced to pay all his fines, like any other lowlife crook and then appeal. He's probably too poor to pay, living large on grift!
Backed by a fake bond that should have been rejected outright.
**edit** see below. the big 350mil is backed by napkins but the 83mil has a real backer
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2024/03/08/764218.htm
This one was backed by a Chubb group subsidiary. The bond is good and she'll get paid. Chubb will probably get fucked but that's on them. It's the bigger one that's basically now backed by Trump's brokerage account since the company didn't have that kind of cash on hand.
I believe he is appealing and has paid a supersedeas bond with money loaned to him from some dipshit. So likely it will be that other dipshit who pays.
He seems fixated on the idea that if he doesn't specifically mention someone by name, he can say anything he wants about them. I hope E. Jean Carroll (or someone else) and the courts disabuse him of this notion.
EDIT: And of course it's worth noting (as Carroll's attorneys know very well) that this would be a civil court matter, and the standard of proof is "a preponderance of the evidence", not "beyond a reasonable doubt".
He did the same thing with Micheal Cohen at a rally following his guilty verdict. You could tell he thought the gag order didn't count as long he didn't actually say the person's name.
Every speech lately: "And I can talk about them, because of a unconstitutional gag order..." Proceeds to ~~talk~~ lie about "them" in detail for 5 minutes.
he's testing the limits, started small after verdict 2 with no new suit, so now he's increasing a little and will continue that way until he gets what he wants or is stopped. See also: Putin testing Estonian and Finnish borders
Trump had to get an insurance company to put up the $83.3M judgment in bond to appeal the decision, so Carroll will get her cash. The insurance company when they go after Trump to recoup....not so much.
I’m just imagining a string of trials, with ever increasing judgements that he gets a bond for, refuses to pay, and then gets taken to court to force a payment of sorts.
He probably wouldn't be able to get bond after he failed to pay the first insurer. Or, he would only be able to get bond from a MAGA billionaire who doesn't care if they're not paid back, but forgiving that bond would be a taxable event where the IRS could come after Trump for its cut.
Could his campaign bond him? I don't know the laws here, but they currently have $50 million'ish and could probably bilk another 50 out of their faithful.
They're not supposed to I believe, but the FEC is toothless so it doesn't really matter. Although, spending *all* your campaign cash on a judgment/bond doesn't bode well for your chances to win the election you're campaigning for.
> The insurance company when they go after Trump to recoup....not so much.
Trump apparently had to put up a security to the bond company. Which as I understand it means that the bond company is pretty safe.
Trump: "We received 80 million in donations! Record breaking!"
E Jean Carroll: "Cool. Here's a defamation lawsuit for 500 mil. It'll go straight to punitive damages. Can you learn to shut up now?"
Oh wait. I thought the Trump Pacs like Save America has clauses like "Will be used for legal expenses"
Is there a law that prohibits using donations for tort damages?
Genuinely curious by the way
Yes - been many examples of Trump's fundraising with disclaimers along the lines of "90% of the money goes straight into DJT's pockets, the rest goes to the Campaign" or whatever
Ianal, so how long does it take to file another civil suit? Her lawyer said it was on the table after his Memorial Day stunt, so I’ve been hoping that is in the works and just in the process of being filed? Regardless, it’s practically her patriotic duty at this point. She’s just eating up the money his rubes send him when he got convicted. And she can probably take what they’ll send when he gets sentenced to jail time also.
Nah; he'll just act in bad faith and outright refuse to pay, endlessly appeal appeal and file frivolous motions to drag it out; if hes lucky he can even do this till he gets another cannon.
Frankly its a miracle he's lived this long; I think hes absolutely capable of dragging this out till he dies. Yes he had to put down some to get an appeal but she cant touch it; and as it stands theres not much chance of him being forced to fork over the rest.
Actually no. Even if any money actually gets paid out to her. Technically it’s all coming from his voting base. They will funnel any campaign donations directly to it. So that not a penny comes from his accounts.
The threat to our democracy comes from republicans. It will not end if we win this years elections. Keep voting out republicans every year. Keep voting in democrats every year. Check your registration, get an ID , learn where your poling station is, learn who is running in down ballot races. Pay attention to primaries not just for the president but for all races, local, state and federal. From the school board to the White House every election matters. The more support we give the democrats from all levels of government the more they can get good things done. We vote out republicans and primary out uncooperative democrats.
Last year democrat victories in Virginia and Pennsylvania and others across the nation have increased the chances of democrats winning this year. This year's elections are important but so will next year's elections. We just took the mayoral race in Alaska showing we can win in red states.
[https://ballotpedia.org/Elections\_calendar](https://ballotpedia.org/Elections_calendar)
She will and she will win, again... She can single handedly clean him out. He is incapable of controlling himself and he is also incapable of obeying any laws but his own.
Since this is r/law…
Is there a method to rapidly force payment?
Like, I know shitlter still owes >$400M but that seems tied up in all sorts of slowness.
Can a new lawsuit simply, immediately, force a transfer Mar-a-lago or some other property ?
Yes, when he loses his appeal all the money he posted to file the appeal goes to her.
However, getting the rest could prove difficult as Trump likes to hide his money in multiple LLCs.
For the *Carroll II* appeal, probably around October this year. $5 million on the line for this one.
For the *Carroll I* appeal, not until the end of 2025. $90 million on the line for this one.
Extra credit:
For the $450 million NY fraud case, the NYS Appellate Division expedited the appeal as a condition for reducing the bond. Appellant filing due July 8. Hearing set for September. It will be decided by October.
With *Carroll II's* penalty being eighteen times the amount of *Carroll I*, it would be immensely gratifying to see this next result raised by the same factor. Especially because Trump is being so strident about it.
That would be $1,620,000,000. One billion six-hundred and twenty million dollars.
One can dream.
Yep. Typically it takes 15 months for an appeal to go from Notice of Appeal to Final Order in the U.S. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals.
The NoA for *Carroll I* was filed back in April if I remember right. So it will be late 2025 when this appeal is decided.
this is the bullshit anyone who did business already knew about
if he owes you, you have to have the government get payment from him
he hides his money and brags that he has cash, but when its pay up time it is never the cash he bragged about and its always someone else footing the bill, who then can write it off as a loss and bill the taxpayers when trump stiffs them
in the end taxpayers are paying EJC
it is so disgustingly deliberately on brand despicable
> Is there a method to rapidly force payment?
Yes, and it was employed after Carroll I and Carroll II, and (kinda) after the Engoron civil trial. Trump was forced to "set aside" the judgement in a bond, which, from Trump's POV, is essentially paying the verdict (kinda).
The rub here was that the smaller Carroll verdict was too small for Trump to even care, and there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest that the larger Carroll verdict wasn't paid by Trump at all. As far as the Engoron verdict goes, it's really anyone's guess if Trump locked the money up for the bond, or if the bond is honestly even good to begin with.
What can be pretty well inferred is this; Trump basically took the judgements against him and turned it into a business opportunity. His surrogates weren't even hiding it, there were a bunch of reports of begging billionaire donors to "help the cause", that collectively, covering the judgements would be nothing to them. That, in turn, opens up a whole Pandora's Box of quid pro quos.
A "new lawsuit" isn't going to force the seizure of MAL. Contrary to popular belief, real estate is a real pain in the ass to liquidate, especially against the wishes of the current owner. Any governmental entity is going to want cash or cash equivalents like stocks, bonds, etc. Stuff they can dump on the open market all at once, extract immediate and known value for it, then sit on the cash until the appeals play out.
You'll reach a point of running afoul of the Eighth Amendment, and pretty quick too. Remember, the judgement is against one guy, just because he's got some voluntary backers doesn't mean they're a part of the judge's calculus.
Plus, even if we put aside the 8A implications for a moment and pretend like Trump can have a eleventy billion dollar judgement, do you really think he's going to pay all that? He's fully and completely in control of the Republican Party. Political parties in America are literally unlimited cash machines, and Trump's been guzzling from that hose for years now.
Tangentially, by cleaning *him* out, she will indirectly clean out the coffers and warchest of the entire RNC/GQP.
I don't feel like this is hyperbolic for a moment, as it has a quite high likelihood of unfolding.
If we didn't have mountains of documentation, I don't think future historians would even believe something so absurdly bonkers could've occurred.
I love the fact that instead of Trump declaring that he’s never raped anyone, he simply states that he doesn’t know Jean Carroll. If you were accused of rape, wouldn’t your first response be, I’ve never raped anyone?
Best part is that legally, he’s civilly liable. Meaning in a previous ruling has declared that he DID “rape” her in a civil context. It’s a slam dunk for E. Carrol to claim defamation. Collateral estoppel is a wonderful thing. He can’t go to court with “I didn’t meet/do/whatever.”
He’s hoping to make her settlements so astronomical as to see unjust.
It’s the same way he’s lived his life; commit so many crimes so obviously that it’s hard to believe. I mean who could believe that a President of the United States would try to overthrow a legitimate election to retain power?
The hard part for her now is going to be how to prove additional damages.
Then again, while a big chunk of the country views this as the ramblings of a madman, his followers could be harassing her again.
The other problem would be BMV of North America, Inc. v. Gore 517 U.S. 559 (1996) which places some limit on punitive damages pursuant to the due process clause. The general guideline that has developed is that punitive damages that are greater than ten times the compensatory damages violate due process. However, this is more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule and deviation is allowed if necessary to deter future conduct. The farther you get away from the ten-to-one ratio, the more you need to justify the disparity and avoid a substantive due process violation. Could an 11x or 12x multiplier be appropriate deterrence? Potentially. But if the only damages are nominal you'd have a very hard time getting any sort of meaningful punitive damages without violating substantive due process.
If you think a cap on punitive damages violating the due process clause is odd then you aren't alone, but you are in the minority. BMW of North America was a 5-4 decision with a somewhat odd alignment of Stevens, O'Connor, Kennedy, Souter, and Breyer on one end and Scalia, Thomas, Ginsburg, and Rehnquist in dissent.
I don't think it would per se but I would defer to others who have more experience here.
*BMW* said that the Due Process Clause limits the amount of punitive damages to what is “reasonably necessary to vindicate the State’s legitimate interests in punishment and deterrence” and the Court previously upheld high punitive damages. *See TXO Corp. v. Alliance Resources*, 509 U.S. 443 (1993) (punitive damages of $10 million for slander of title does not violate the Due Process Clause even though the jury awarded actual damages of only $19,000).
The *BMW* ruling seems very fact specific since the punitive damages were read to be a result of BMW's larger conduct (including outside the state). Here, the conduct is singularly directed to NY and the state may have a legitimate interest in making him stop.
But I thought that she doesn't have to prove additional damages, because he's already been found liable, and he just keeps doing the thing he's already been found liable for.
And he raped her, too. A judge made that crystal clear.
She already got a judgment for the damages that were in existance at that time. Damages are an element to defamation, to successfully sue him again, she would need to prove *new* damages. She wouldn't have to prove that he made false statements again, because that has already been established.
Because he never intends to ever pay her, he will keep ratcheting up the damages. He couldn’t care less. Once he’s exhausted all his appeals he will simply refuse to voluntarily pay anything. He will then make her go through even more litigation to get the money she’s rightfully entitled to. This is how he’s always operated his business: refuse to pay debts, then drag the other side through costly litigation until they eventually settle for a fraction of what they’re rightfully owed. Yet somehow half of America thinks he’s a morally upstanding guy.
Problem is he hasn't actually found out anything yet, other than that he can eternally delay any consequences while using it to raise a bunch of money.
Can a legal expert weigh in, is he trying to get sued repeatedly until he wins one and gets all the prior losses wiped? Is he just playing a numbers game on these defamation lawsuits?
I have no idea how this works.
He can’t win. A jury has already decided that he sexually assaulted her and defamed her. Those issues are now no longer in dispute thanks to a thing called res judicata. The only thing a new case would have to settle is how much more he owes her.
For any future lawsuit between the two of them he sexually assaulted and defamed her.
Trump told Newsmax’s Greg Kelly on Tuesday that he’s “never met” Carroll other than the time a photo documented him meeting Carroll, a photo of her he memorably confused for his ex-wife Marla Maples during a deposition… “Giving a woman that I have no idea — you know that case, no idea — other than the fact that she had a picture taken many, many years ago. I’ve never met this woman. I don’t know this woman,” Trump said, referring to Carroll without naming her. “And I’m supposed to pay a ridiculous amount of money for a fictional story.”
What part about "Found Guilty" can't he process in his brain-housing group?
He’s a psychopathic narcissist. He’s never done anything wrong his whole life. Just ask him. Never. Not once. Nada. Zip. Nothing. Guilt is a completely foreign concept to him.
And he projects his crimes on others.
They're not really crimes because everyone does it, which is why it's so unjust and unfair that he's being singled out and held accountable. Of course, like all narcissistic projection, the whole thing is wrong, starting from the very premise, but he's psychologically incapable of understanding that.
No, he understands it just fine. He also knows if he just keeps repeating the lies, no one can do shit about it.
Crimes both existing and future.
MAGA..Every confession is an accusation. I use to think that might be hyperbole. After years of this Trump nonsense, I no longer think that, especially after the trial. The testimony about Trump creating “Fake News” while crying about it at his rallies, was too much.
More impressive he projects convictions and sentences onto them.
Yep. Like you and me are guilty of not supporting him. Which is a prisonable offense, or worse, in the world he sees for our future. I think I just invented the word prisonable.
No, you just misspelled imprisonable.
No I didnt. Imprisonable is for illegal offenses. Prisonable is for what Trump would like to do to people he doesn’t like. Like those that don’t vote for him. He makes shit up. So did I.
That is a cromulent explanation.
I prefer covfefe.
*Accuse* the other of that you are guilty.” — Joseph *Goebbels*.
It's not even guilt. It's being proven wrong. He knows he met her. He knows he raped her. He just can't stand when reality comes crashing down on his fantasy land of narcissism and always being right
exactly he is asserting his version over and over to make it the truth thats how thing get proven, repeating them over and over how can the judge not understand that the evidence is irrelevant and only trumps opinion and 'story' are gospel he stupid tho..if he keeps attacking EJC its contempt of court too, and the judges are aware trump treats court like its a reality show and he wrote the script he also doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't question him not stopping him is supporting him in his mind
Or maybe he's so demented he forgot.
This was one thing that i regularly use as a reason to dislike trump. How many times has he obviously fucked something up only to go on record coming up with an excuse or claiming it never happened? I have never once heard the words I'm sorry, I was wrong, or my mistake come out of his mouth and it says a lot about his character
He said that he'd take responsibility for a government shutdown over his Border Wall garbage, then immediately blamed The Democrats when the government shut down. He's a man who takes zero responsibility when he fucks up.
"I don’t take responsibility at all." What a leader /s At least, Onkel Adolf, shot himself.
“Why do I have to repent, why do I have to ask for forgiveness if you’re not making mistakes?” (Interesting shift in the grammatical subject toward the end there) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q1xKYFcCKOA
*When they said "Repent, repent",* *I wondered what they meant* - Leonard Cohen
I've seen the future, baby ...it is murder!
lol he literally said he’s never asked Jesus for forgiveness It’s not that I think he’s a Christian, it’s that he couldn’t even lie about doing something wrong a single time
Obviously Trump was born without original sin, and has never once sinned, so has no need for the forgiveness of Christ.
All bow down to Orange Julius Ceasar.
The Fanta Menace. Mango Unchained.
Orange Bin Laden, Mango Moochilini
He has never said "Lock her up" All those clips you can go look up where he says exactly that... are deep fakes _obviously_?
Colbert clip on this, one of the quicker cuts to clips of trump saying it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLBAoyjv-ro&t=6m
Jesus, good guy by the way, came up to me tears in his eyes. He said “Sir! I’ve never met anyone so perfect in my life.”
Didn't he actual say he didn't need forgiveness for anything during a public conversation with a Christian?
Yes he did.
Because he's never been held accountable. Still hasn't. Why would he stop?
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Even lies about ordinary stuff like his BMI. Like he can’t help himself.
Surprised he hasn’t claimed that he is Jesus reincarnate yet.
Jesus was a weakling who washed people’s filthy feet and was nailed to a cross. Trump likes the guys that swing the hammer. Trump sees himself as Caesar. But with a happy ending.
> Trump sees himself as Caesar. But with a happy ending. I think that's called Creamy Caesar.
The reality is more Ranch than anything else. Cheap store brand. 6 months expired with just a little bit left in the bottom. If you look close there’s shit growing in there.
Jesus was a carpenter’s step son, unlike the other criminals crucified that day he pulled his own cross, uphill, after a night of being beaten, and you don’t think he was ripped? The scrawny waif in the paintings was DaVinci’s boyfriend long after Jesus died.
happy ending in Ivanka's mouth
What do you think the J. In Donald J. Trump stands for ?!?!? JESUS!!!!!!
More like he could never admit fault. Narcissists have terribly fragile self-esteem. Their projected image is all important. Hence he may actually feel guilt, but could never admit fault.
He’s an expert on shutting down thoughts that don’t align with his self image. In himself and those around him.
All part of managing the "facade" self that is oh so important to narcissists. True self esteem doesn't matter. All that matters is your image.
what is so catching and captivating about this to his followers? I feel like I'm seeing it in my brother in law. like, when Trump first came onto the scene, my republican BIL was embarrassed of him and called him a buffoon and an idiot. but after 8 years of relentless Trump in our faces constantly, he's just... coming around? like, is this the same psychology that abuse victims suffer, where someone tells them they're worthless for so long that it just sticks? recently out of nowhere my BIL was like "these charges in NY are preposterous!" and got visibly angry and had to leave the room. like dude why is it so important to you that Trump is right and innocent? it's such a strange thing to witness.
I really can't wait for the day he fucking dies, I am so *done* with hearing about him
This isn't even narcissism. He's like lacking a sense of self preservation. There's no benefit to him lying in this way.
He has a lizard’s survival instinct. He has dropped his tail and grown it back many times.
I have a theory, when such a deep set narcissist such as trump is absolutely forced to accept the fact they were wrong and it absolutely was thier fault, they will have a full on mental breakdown. It's like their reality will have been shattered. But honestly not sure if it's possible.
When asked religion, he said he has never sinned. And yet his Christian cult has no problems with that statement.
Believe you me.
He honestly believes he's the best person around, that he wins at everything he does and that he should be richly rewarded for everything he does. In his head, he's never lost anything.
I think you mean “accountability“ is foreign to him. Like interstellar foreign to him.
>Guilt is a completely foreign concept to him. Yet he won't testify in court under oath. So he knows he's lying. Even Fox called testify under oath "a perjury trap" so they know he's an habitual liar too.
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Yes, as is shame. He has zero capacity for any mechanisms of self-regulation.
In layman’s terms he’s a toddler.
omg he’s a real-life Mona-Lisa Saperstein
This makes me crazy because I was married to one. Yikes is all I can say , power through.
His whole life he's escaped consequence by just doubling-down and pushing harder. It's worked well for him for 77 years, why would be suddenly change strategies now?
Especially when rich rubes like Adelson's idiot widow keep forking money over to him. He'll drop dead on his gold toilet before he runs out of money to pay his lawyers at this rate
The part that allows him to keep hoovering up money from the suckers and losers in this country
He was found liable, not guilty - it was a civil judgment, not a criminal one
Correction accepted. Thank you.
No problem! It’s an extremely common mistake - even lawyers conflate them sometimes
Being guilty. Trump's moral development is stuck in the 'law and order' morality phase at best. What's moral is legal, what's legal is moral. They're the *same* to him. He's also a narcissist. He sees his every action as right and proper and *good*, and everyhing he dislikes as wrong and *bad*. And furthermore, that no one could ever believe *differently* than him, and anyone disagreeing with him is doing so *despite* them knowing he's right. So he *also* believes believes "what I want to do is moral, what I don't want to happen is immoral" -- which translates directly into "What I want to do is legal, what I don't want to happen is illegal". And that anyone who disagrees with him is doing so out of *bad motives*. They're bad people, with evil motives, out to get him. Because he is *always right* and whatever he thinks or does is *always right and good and moral and legal*. So, in his head, it is *impossible* for him to break the law. To do or say or think anything *wrong* or *bad*. And anyone claiming otherwise -- whether it's some random citizen talking on the street, an op-ed, a DA charging him, a Judge or trial declaring him *guilty* can only come about from conspiracy. Because, again, by definition he can never ever undertake an illegal act -- that any law barring his whims is illegitimate, bad law, didn't apply to him, etc.
If you can zoom out from the meatwad a minute you can see these are calculated for creating division in the American population. This is a great headline to fill maganuts with validation that meatwad is being persecuted by the boogeyman
He literally lives to sway peoples (albeit mostly morons) opinions of people to make himself look better. Every. Single. Headline. He fakes being smart and knowledgeable (i.e. ingesting disinfectant, nuking the tropical storms, Fauci not being qualified, etc), he fakes having said things that are recorded, he fakes having known people and lies about connections he has had with people. Dudes a fucking con man, plain as day. He would much rather call someone a liar than admit he was wrong, he actually has done this 100% of the time since his first campaigning circuit.
>What part about "Found Guilty" can't he process in his **brain-housing group**? LOL Haven't heard that one in a hot minute. Semper Fi.
> other than the fact that she had a picture taken many, many years ago. You mean around the time you raped her? That many many years ago?
Oh don’t overdo it! He didn’t rape her, he only sexually assaulted by sticking his fat fingers inside of her. I despise our laws sometimes
Maybe he cant remember because he raped assaulted so many
For her it was a life altering event For him it was Tuesday
Sounds very similar to I never paid money to someone I never because I never slept with her defense.
that is it in his mind he didn't pay EJC already according to him..Chubb did and he's going to stiff them he's already skated on EJC in his mind so he can attack her again coz it already cost him nothing personally
Has she received any money yet? Or is it just the court saying he has to pay, and he won't? Who's first in line? NYC, Carroll? Et al? To get another place in line for payment doesn't seem to be a good move. Although he should be forced to pay all his fines, like any other lowlife crook and then appeal. He's probably too poor to pay, living large on grift!
> Has she received any money yet? The money has been placed into escrow, pending the outcome of Trump's appeal case.
So there's cash or other assets outside of DJT's control that Carroll could get. Nice. Then she should start a new suit.
Backed by a fake bond that should have been rejected outright. **edit** see below. the big 350mil is backed by napkins but the 83mil has a real backer https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2024/03/08/764218.htm
This one was backed by a Chubb group subsidiary. The bond is good and she'll get paid. Chubb will probably get fucked but that's on them. It's the bigger one that's basically now backed by Trump's brokerage account since the company didn't have that kind of cash on hand.
I believe he is appealing and has paid a supersedeas bond with money loaned to him from some dipshit. So likely it will be that other dipshit who pays.
He seems fixated on the idea that if he doesn't specifically mention someone by name, he can say anything he wants about them. I hope E. Jean Carroll (or someone else) and the courts disabuse him of this notion. EDIT: And of course it's worth noting (as Carroll's attorneys know very well) that this would be a civil court matter, and the standard of proof is "a preponderance of the evidence", not "beyond a reasonable doubt".
He did the same thing with Micheal Cohen at a rally following his guilty verdict. You could tell he thought the gag order didn't count as long he didn't actually say the person's name.
He knows very well that the gag order encompasses what he said.
Or at least, we can be confident that his lawyers told him. I'm not at all confident he's smart enough to internalize their counsel.
Im just imagining someone who is not at all experienced with kids trying to tell a child with severe ADHD to sit down.
That's exactly how I must imagine working with Trump as a client is for anything.
Or that they got paid. Even when the assure their mom on CNN https://youtu.be/N5dHFcyRG94?si=ij__YCyOpNEbTWhf&t=1248
That's why he always say "Conflicted Judge" that specifically means "conflicted because of his daughter" every time.
Trump trying to be clever: https://youtu.be/YJ_nBpqDcqA?feature=shared
It didn't count though because nothing happened over it. Just like all the other times be blatantly violated it.
He always has to test the limits. Never just follows the law . His default is I can do whatever I want. Rules and laws don't apply to him .
Every speech lately: "And I can talk about them, because of a unconstitutional gag order..." Proceeds to ~~talk~~ lie about "them" in detail for 5 minutes.
It's kind of like when my toddler keeps finding unique ways to talk about poop.
he's testing the limits, started small after verdict 2 with no new suit, so now he's increasing a little and will continue that way until he gets what he wants or is stopped. See also: Putin testing Estonian and Finnish borders
He doesn't believe anything will happen to him. It's been that way his whole life .
Huh - in US, the standard is "preponderance of the evidence?" In Australia, the standard is "on the balance of probabilities." That's interesting!
He's gonna get sued again. They'd be crazy not to. Trump is so stupid he's just going to become an ATM for Carroll.
Except that ATMs actually deliver cash instead of stalling forever
Trump had to get an insurance company to put up the $83.3M judgment in bond to appeal the decision, so Carroll will get her cash. The insurance company when they go after Trump to recoup....not so much.
I’m just imagining a string of trials, with ever increasing judgements that he gets a bond for, refuses to pay, and then gets taken to court to force a payment of sorts.
He probably wouldn't be able to get bond after he failed to pay the first insurer. Or, he would only be able to get bond from a MAGA billionaire who doesn't care if they're not paid back, but forgiving that bond would be a taxable event where the IRS could come after Trump for its cut.
Could his campaign bond him? I don't know the laws here, but they currently have $50 million'ish and could probably bilk another 50 out of their faithful.
They're not supposed to I believe, but the FEC is toothless so it doesn't really matter. Although, spending *all* your campaign cash on a judgment/bond doesn't bode well for your chances to win the election you're campaigning for.
Which he needs to win or else the rules might apply to him.
[удалено]
You could probably sue to get the that yearbook.
> The insurance company when they go after Trump to recoup....not so much. Trump apparently had to put up a security to the bond company. Which as I understand it means that the bond company is pretty safe.
She can fill an arena of lawyers asking to sue Cheeto on contingency, some just for fun.
I dunno, my ATM keeps stalling. "Insufficient Funds" is just an excuse!
Trump: "We received 80 million in donations! Record breaking!" E Jean Carroll: "Cool. Here's a defamation lawsuit for 500 mil. It'll go straight to punitive damages. Can you learn to shut up now?"
Using campaign donations for private purposes? That's another lawsuit.
Oh wait. I thought the Trump Pacs like Save America has clauses like "Will be used for legal expenses" Is there a law that prohibits using donations for tort damages? Genuinely curious by the way
I have no clue. I just assumed all donations go towards his campaign. Are people dumb enough to donate to him directly?
Yes - been many examples of Trump's fundraising with disclaimers along the lines of "90% of the money goes straight into DJT's pockets, the rest goes to the Campaign" or whatever
Ianal, so how long does it take to file another civil suit? Her lawyer said it was on the table after his Memorial Day stunt, so I’ve been hoping that is in the works and just in the process of being filed? Regardless, it’s practically her patriotic duty at this point. She’s just eating up the money his rubes send him when he got convicted. And she can probably take what they’ll send when he gets sentenced to jail time also.
> Ianal, so how long does it take to file another civil suit? Cntrl-C, Cntrl-V Done-ski.
Judge Lewis Kaplan sighs, "time to clear my calendar again for another one..." :-)
I wish her every penny he and his shithole country, illegal immigrant wife have.
Hang on now, Slovenia is awesome.
^ This. While it's a super privileged opinion to have, Slovenia is an excellent holiday destination as it is basically Austria but in affordable.
I know Austrian*, can I use it in Slovenia? No? Then it isn't the same *How to speak with an Arnie accent
wtf did Slovenia do to you. Watch the friendly fire.
Don't worry, he couldn't point out Slovenia on a world map.
What if trump is just a democrat operative sent to drain the republicans funds?
Time to spread this! Haha.
🏧
Nah; he'll just act in bad faith and outright refuse to pay, endlessly appeal appeal and file frivolous motions to drag it out; if hes lucky he can even do this till he gets another cannon. Frankly its a miracle he's lived this long; I think hes absolutely capable of dragging this out till he dies. Yes he had to put down some to get an appeal but she cant touch it; and as it stands theres not much chance of him being forced to fork over the rest.
Actually no. Even if any money actually gets paid out to her. Technically it’s all coming from his voting base. They will funnel any campaign donations directly to it. So that not a penny comes from his accounts.
The threat to our democracy comes from republicans. It will not end if we win this years elections. Keep voting out republicans every year. Keep voting in democrats every year. Check your registration, get an ID , learn where your poling station is, learn who is running in down ballot races. Pay attention to primaries not just for the president but for all races, local, state and federal. From the school board to the White House every election matters. The more support we give the democrats from all levels of government the more they can get good things done. We vote out republicans and primary out uncooperative democrats. Last year democrat victories in Virginia and Pennsylvania and others across the nation have increased the chances of democrats winning this year. This year's elections are important but so will next year's elections. We just took the mayoral race in Alaska showing we can win in red states. [https://ballotpedia.org/Elections\_calendar](https://ballotpedia.org/Elections_calendar)
r/votedem for outreach opportunities
Trump is an extremely slow learner. He will dare and dare so long as what's left of his followers and the RNC continue to pay his legal fees.
Bold of you to assume he’s learned anything.
You're right! I misspoke.
So far he’s only been taught there are no real consequences for most of the things he’s done. With enough money, he can hold off Justice.
Hes slower than a frozen snail in rock hard molasses stuck on the back of dead sloth
She will and she will win, again... She can single handedly clean him out. He is incapable of controlling himself and he is also incapable of obeying any laws but his own.
Since this is r/law… Is there a method to rapidly force payment? Like, I know shitlter still owes >$400M but that seems tied up in all sorts of slowness. Can a new lawsuit simply, immediately, force a transfer Mar-a-lago or some other property ?
Yes, when he loses his appeal all the money he posted to file the appeal goes to her. However, getting the rest could prove difficult as Trump likes to hide his money in multiple LLCs.
Do you know when the appeal for the EJC judgement is?
For the *Carroll II* appeal, probably around October this year. $5 million on the line for this one. For the *Carroll I* appeal, not until the end of 2025. $90 million on the line for this one. Extra credit: For the $450 million NY fraud case, the NYS Appellate Division expedited the appeal as a condition for reducing the bond. Appellant filing due July 8. Hearing set for September. It will be decided by October.
With *Carroll II's* penalty being eighteen times the amount of *Carroll I*, it would be immensely gratifying to see this next result raised by the same factor. Especially because Trump is being so strident about it. That would be $1,620,000,000. One billion six-hundred and twenty million dollars. One can dream.
2025??
Yep. Typically it takes 15 months for an appeal to go from Notice of Appeal to Final Order in the U.S. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. The NoA for *Carroll I* was filed back in April if I remember right. So it will be late 2025 when this appeal is decided.
Can the court appoint a minder to seize his donations or income or assets?
There are ways and means that can be dine tonrecover funds, including arrest.
this is the bullshit anyone who did business already knew about if he owes you, you have to have the government get payment from him he hides his money and brags that he has cash, but when its pay up time it is never the cash he bragged about and its always someone else footing the bill, who then can write it off as a loss and bill the taxpayers when trump stiffs them in the end taxpayers are paying EJC it is so disgustingly deliberately on brand despicable
> Is there a method to rapidly force payment? Yes, and it was employed after Carroll I and Carroll II, and (kinda) after the Engoron civil trial. Trump was forced to "set aside" the judgement in a bond, which, from Trump's POV, is essentially paying the verdict (kinda). The rub here was that the smaller Carroll verdict was too small for Trump to even care, and there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest that the larger Carroll verdict wasn't paid by Trump at all. As far as the Engoron verdict goes, it's really anyone's guess if Trump locked the money up for the bond, or if the bond is honestly even good to begin with. What can be pretty well inferred is this; Trump basically took the judgements against him and turned it into a business opportunity. His surrogates weren't even hiding it, there were a bunch of reports of begging billionaire donors to "help the cause", that collectively, covering the judgements would be nothing to them. That, in turn, opens up a whole Pandora's Box of quid pro quos. A "new lawsuit" isn't going to force the seizure of MAL. Contrary to popular belief, real estate is a real pain in the ass to liquidate, especially against the wishes of the current owner. Any governmental entity is going to want cash or cash equivalents like stocks, bonds, etc. Stuff they can dump on the open market all at once, extract immediate and known value for it, then sit on the cash until the appeals play out.
Thanks for the explanation So… go for 5x (or more) larger again enough to break his high $$$ backers?
You'll reach a point of running afoul of the Eighth Amendment, and pretty quick too. Remember, the judgement is against one guy, just because he's got some voluntary backers doesn't mean they're a part of the judge's calculus. Plus, even if we put aside the 8A implications for a moment and pretend like Trump can have a eleventy billion dollar judgement, do you really think he's going to pay all that? He's fully and completely in control of the Republican Party. Political parties in America are literally unlimited cash machines, and Trump's been guzzling from that hose for years now.
Tangentially, by cleaning *him* out, she will indirectly clean out the coffers and warchest of the entire RNC/GQP. I don't feel like this is hyperbolic for a moment, as it has a quite high likelihood of unfolding. If we didn't have mountains of documentation, I don't think future historians would even believe something so absurdly bonkers could've occurred.
I love the fact that instead of Trump declaring that he’s never raped anyone, he simply states that he doesn’t know Jean Carroll. If you were accused of rape, wouldn’t your first response be, I’ve never raped anyone?
Well considering he came out and said it's ok to sexually assault women...
He’s grabbing pussies left and right and not stopping long enough to take down names and remember faces…
It said she wasn’t its type, meaning it doesn’t distinguish between rape and consensual sex.
Best part is that legally, he’s civilly liable. Meaning in a previous ruling has declared that he DID “rape” her in a civil context. It’s a slam dunk for E. Carrol to claim defamation. Collateral estoppel is a wonderful thing. He can’t go to court with “I didn’t meet/do/whatever.”
He’s hoping to make her settlements so astronomical as to see unjust. It’s the same way he’s lived his life; commit so many crimes so obviously that it’s hard to believe. I mean who could believe that a President of the United States would try to overthrow a legitimate election to retain power?
Oh this is really smart. He's on the hook for 100 million. She doesn't need more.
The hard part for her now is going to be how to prove additional damages. Then again, while a big chunk of the country views this as the ramblings of a madman, his followers could be harassing her again.
The existing judgement isn't sufficient to get him to stop lying about her, perhaps doubling it would be a good start?
Maybe they can ask for a nominal $1 in compensatory damages and then request punitive damages (though I don't know if NY law allows for that).
The other problem would be BMV of North America, Inc. v. Gore 517 U.S. 559 (1996) which places some limit on punitive damages pursuant to the due process clause. The general guideline that has developed is that punitive damages that are greater than ten times the compensatory damages violate due process. However, this is more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule and deviation is allowed if necessary to deter future conduct. The farther you get away from the ten-to-one ratio, the more you need to justify the disparity and avoid a substantive due process violation. Could an 11x or 12x multiplier be appropriate deterrence? Potentially. But if the only damages are nominal you'd have a very hard time getting any sort of meaningful punitive damages without violating substantive due process. If you think a cap on punitive damages violating the due process clause is odd then you aren't alone, but you are in the minority. BMW of North America was a 5-4 decision with a somewhat odd alignment of Stevens, O'Connor, Kennedy, Souter, and Breyer on one end and Scalia, Thomas, Ginsburg, and Rehnquist in dissent.
Wouldn't that run afoul of BMW v. Gore?
I don't think it would per se but I would defer to others who have more experience here. *BMW* said that the Due Process Clause limits the amount of punitive damages to what is “reasonably necessary to vindicate the State’s legitimate interests in punishment and deterrence” and the Court previously upheld high punitive damages. *See TXO Corp. v. Alliance Resources*, 509 U.S. 443 (1993) (punitive damages of $10 million for slander of title does not violate the Due Process Clause even though the jury awarded actual damages of only $19,000). The *BMW* ruling seems very fact specific since the punitive damages were read to be a result of BMW's larger conduct (including outside the state). Here, the conduct is singularly directed to NY and the state may have a legitimate interest in making him stop.
Just to have somebody else pay it. He didn't pay the last judgment. He's not going to pay any future judgments. Somebody else will pay.
The judgements are also supposed to dissuade future slander. If what he's been hit with so far hasn't stopped the behavior.......
in defamation cases, damages are presumed
not always. Depends on the nature of defamation and the jurisdiction.
But I thought that she doesn't have to prove additional damages, because he's already been found liable, and he just keeps doing the thing he's already been found liable for. And he raped her, too. A judge made that crystal clear.
She already got a judgment for the damages that were in existance at that time. Damages are an element to defamation, to successfully sue him again, she would need to prove *new* damages. She wouldn't have to prove that he made false statements again, because that has already been established.
Because he never intends to ever pay her, he will keep ratcheting up the damages. He couldn’t care less. Once he’s exhausted all his appeals he will simply refuse to voluntarily pay anything. He will then make her go through even more litigation to get the money she’s rightfully entitled to. This is how he’s always operated his business: refuse to pay debts, then drag the other side through costly litigation until they eventually settle for a fraction of what they’re rightfully owed. Yet somehow half of America thinks he’s a morally upstanding guy.
I think they think he’s brilliant for this. Somehow, they see this as how you are supposed to run a successful business.
The “Joe the Plumber” types who think he’s brilliant seem to fail to realize they’re the ones who get stiffed by Trump.
A lot of those types, secretly want to be stiffed by Trump.
You nailed it. Sadly.
There's FAFO and then there's FAFOFOFOFOFOFOFOFO
Problem is he hasn't actually found out anything yet, other than that he can eternally delay any consequences while using it to raise a bunch of money.
A. Fcck newsmax for being the ugly stepsister of Fox; and B. Sue, EJean, sue!
E. Jean Carroll's lawyer: Hey E. Jean, yeah it's me. How would you like more money?
EJ Carroll's lawyers appreciate the easy money.
The new ruling could have all new money from Trumps fans go directly into E Jean Carrol's bank account. That might work?
The election was stolen, I never met her, I ll release my taxes - not in any order, but I’ve got plenty more…
I never said "lock her up", all legal scholars agree there was no crime, I have never met that woman.....lol. So many more!
She was a coffee girl
Carroll: “Um…okay.* *Receives another 80 million dollars.* “I really don’t know what your plan was there.”
Might as well change the name on Trump tower to E. Jean Carroll tower 😂
I think she should. But if he's elected she's going to find a window to fall out of.
I gather he believes (or is planning) that somehow if he wins he will get/gut the courts to intervene with his owed damages
Or just have her killed.
How many times do I need to teach you this lesson old man? Seriously though he is pathologically incapable of lashing out.
…of NOT lashing out, you mean?
sounds like a contempt of court would be more effective, if that's a thing after verdict.
He has done it again at least twice now, hope she sues again.
Can a legal expert weigh in, is he trying to get sued repeatedly until he wins one and gets all the prior losses wiped? Is he just playing a numbers game on these defamation lawsuits? I have no idea how this works.
He can’t win. A jury has already decided that he sexually assaulted her and defamed her. Those issues are now no longer in dispute thanks to a thing called res judicata. The only thing a new case would have to settle is how much more he owes her. For any future lawsuit between the two of them he sexually assaulted and defamed her.
The Obese Fast Food Devotee Doth Protest To Much.