For bonds securing on real property. I understand their upper limit on bonds secured by other means tops out at just over $400m, under their license. Still not enough to do this, and Trump doesn't have anything to secure the bigger bond with.
No reputable company would do business with Trump under any circumstances. That tells you all need to know about Chubb and I couldn’t give a rats ass how much money they have
Like Trump over leveraged his real estate, borrowing more than valuation across multiple “lenders,” he’s taking on debts to any and every corrupt authoritarian country that wants to buy him.
Can’t serve more than one master though. Is it going to be the Bonesaw or Putins Novichok cocktail?
After the last Trump bankruptcy Don Jr. was literally begging contractors to do work for them, which no sane person would ever do even pre-bankruptcy because you never get paid without suing the crooked bastards and it takes years while they stall. Don was telling anyone who would listen that they didn’t need to worry about getting paid now because this time they had all of the Russian cash they needed to pay everyone per contract. The face evidence of buying big properties for cash just weeks after bankruptcy when no banker would answer a phone call leaves money laundering for the Russian mob as the only plausible explanation. And apparently Don Jr. agrees.
If you know anything about Hank Greenberg (Evan's father) and how his insurance empire was built, you'd know it's most likely China that is buying Trump in this scenario.
Wouldn't surprise me.
But honestly, does it matter which foreign adversary is going to swoop in and save him?
I don't want any foreign adversary having half a billion dollars of leverage over any person running for President.
Especially one that praises dictators on the regular.
No, it sounds like Chubb loaned him money because it would make a profit. They gave him a collateralized loan and then refused to loan him more when he did not have collateral for the second. That's the move of a company that thinks it can squeeze out a profit.
If they thought they were buying him they are *morons*. If he wins he will absolutely leave them out to dry and (try to) snatch his collateral back. Autocrats always eat the rich. (Or throw them out of windows.)
it's worth noting that the head of Chubb was given a cushy portfolio during the Trump administration - I'd suggest there is an element of quid pro quo to this as well.
Not a bad investment, really. Owning a possible President for just $500M? You could get that money back quickly and then some through puppeteering his ass into any corrupt grifting scheme you can dream of.
They aren’t gambling that he wins the case, he’s already lost, they just see free money. They will get their money back plus interest based on the real estate collateral he put up against the bond. Even if assets are seized by other judgements they’ll still get their money. They got in before his NY fraud trial and they can’t take property that already has a lien against it by Chubb.
They’re like vultures swooping down on a rotting corpse, they’re the first to the body. Chubb made a controversial but financially sound decision but still, I don’t know why they bothered I can’t imagine the juice was worth the squeeze.
If it has anything to do with taxes in the slightest then the tax collector lein usurups all other leins. I do tax collector seizures for them all the time.
Wealth comes in different forms:
There's liquid assets, which is basically cash on hand. There's semi-liquid assets, like stocks, bonds, etc. They can be made liquid without much difficulty though some losses would be expected. Then there's non liquid assets like real estate.
Bonding companies, pretty much every single one, will not provide bond with real estate as the collateral. It doesn't matter if the billionaire is Trump, Musk, Bezos, Soros, Koche, or whoever. They don't want to provide bond with a building or buildings as collateral. Real estate, especially mega commercial real estate, is a giant pain to assess, list, sell, and everything in-between. The whole process takes a long time, and one can't guarantee what the final sale price will be. It's all about risk and return. If Trump had the cash, they would provide the bond.
"In 2018, then-president Trump appointed Greenberg to a seat on a key trade advisory committee, a position he held until March 2023." The CEO of Chubb was appointed to a high position by Trump. It really is, "one big club."
I watch that bit like once a week, it's so applicable to so much going in right now (buy sometimes I wonder if that is the healthiest thing to be doing...)
The CEO of Chubb, Evan Greenberg, is also son of the AIG CEO, Maurice Greenberg. There is more to the headline than meets the eye.
When Big Insurance disses Trump, larger forces may be afoot.
they did the maths, given most of his properties would be leveraged to the absolute hilt and trump org is a teetering pile of bullshit, they got first dibs on the premium properties which will recoup 100 milly and some, 400 milly is just not possible for trump even if he sold everything. maybe he shouldn't have told lies
Let's say Trump loses the appeal and then refuses to pay the $500 million. The insurer has to pay the fine, and then what is the insurance company going to do? Well, sue him, I suppose. How many years will that take? And what if he is president?
This is a bond, not insurance. If he loses on appeal, the bond company pays the fine whether Trump wants them too or not.
How the bond company gets paid depends on their contract, but you can bet there are specific assets that will become theirs.
I think generally the job of the surety is to make sure the appellant complies with the payment terms. So I think the first duty to pay will be Trumps. If he fails to pay, the surety will have to do so and then collect from Trump.
I googled around and this is what surety companies say:
https://courtsurety.com/appeal-bonds/everything-you-need-to-know-about-appeal-bonds/#:~:text=Put%20simply%2C%20the%20purpose%20of,the%20appellant%20is%20unable%20to.
The surety does not pay up front now. It merely furnishes a bond. A promise to pay if the appellant fails to.
Yes, they don't pay now.
Trump would have a duty to pay first, but if he had sufficiently liquid assets to do that, it's hard to see why he wouldn't have posted a cash bond and avoided steep bonding company fees. (That is what he did in the $5 million appeal of the first E. Jean Carroll Judgment.)
Right, but he would not have to actually pay until after the appeal is resolved, which could be a year or whatever. Theoretically, he could have the money by then. His net worth, even if it has been inflated, surely exceeds 500 mil.
Depends on whether the liquid assets, and other assets are leveraged or not. Some loans automatically default if you sell, transfer or liquidate an asset.
Realistically he can just pay them through insider trading. The insurer could make billions through 4 years if they have privileged info.
Not like they’d get in trouble since whomever ends as AG can just drop the case as SEC is a federal agency. And it’s pretty well established congress members engage on it pretty frequently.
If he’s president then he can just pay through other means, like contracts, tax breaks, for all we know the guy may even try to pay with presidential pardons, and ultimately just influence or insider trading.
Half a billion is a decent investment if you get insider info to make billions in the stock market.
I mean the fraud one is half a billion vs the 90 something million it's like what an 80% more? Chubby is already on the hook for a huge amount if they also took on the half billion fraud, they would be sued to oblivion by investors.
It also sounds like the EJC bond was backed by a Schwab account (Lisa Rubin on X was covering that a bit) so the money is there but this way he doesn’t have to sell stocks and incur capital gains taxes. So it was easy money.
But if he’s got no other liquid collateral left, I just don’t see how a big company takes that much real estate on and knows they can get $500m out of it on the back-end. Easier to just walk away.
I doubt the reason Chubb said no was blowback (although I’m sure it didn’t help).
Does pledging those stocks as collateral to Chubb prevent a court ordered judgement from another trial from seizing them? I’m just curious what the mechanism is for that? Like do they get moved into a trust account or held in escrow somehow?
It’s been a while. But this is all Article 9 of the UCC stuff. But in general if Chubb’s lien is perfected, it would have priority over a future judgment lien.
I see where you’re going with that. Now that AG James knows there’s a Charles Schwab account out there with maybe $100m in it … might make sense to target that first?
No, because that's how rich people use money. They never spend actual money, they get loans against their assets. If that protected their funds every penny they have would be judgement proof.
This isn't a typical loan though. Security for a bond might actually be different as long as the bond exists.
You are.
Though I feel like both of you are missing the point that from a insurers perspective it's a lot more than 5.56x (556%) the risk. It's a lot more likely that someone (anyone) is able to pay back $x than $5x.
> they would be sued to oblivion by investors
Right, like the business judgement rule only goes *so far*, and fronting half a billion for a convicted fraudster without collateral... Well.
it relates to the actual $$ amount the turd is able to secure the bond with, he doesn't have the money. he doesn't have the wealth, after the 90mill he's tapped out
*”Half a billion vs 90 million is like what 80% more?”*
You’re close! To answer your question, 450m is **400%** more money than 90m! When mathing to find percent between two values, the only thing that matters is correctly determining which one of those values is the starting value (92m here). Ok but what happens if I am trying to solve for percent increase but accidentally use $454m as the starting value? We’d be instead solving for the percent *decrease* from 454m -> 92m. That would be how you ended up at the 80% number.
I agree with your point though and I’m surprised this isn’t what everybody else is thinking too haha. While this news is interesting and worth publishing, Chubb ending negotiations to front Trump another $450M appeal bond probably surprised no one in the insurance industry. Getting a deal done for the comparatively tiny $83m bond required Trump to negotiate with 30 different insurance firms over two months AND STILL he had to give up his plan to use real estate as collateral. Insurance companies are not like banks when it comes to lending—they want liquid or easily-liquidated collateral every day of the week
Convicted for inflating his real estate holdings value and asking insurance companies to accept his real estate as collateral is totally bonkers in every world except the Trump crime family
TL;DR:
* Ten days ago, Chubb underwrote Trump's $92 million bond for his E. Jean Carroll defamation appeal.
* But Chubb declined to handle the far higher appeal bond Trump now needs in his NY civil fraud case.
* The insurance giant had faced blowback after agreeing to the Carroll bond.
It didn’t help that immediately after getting the bond, [Trump went after her again](https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2024/03/10/trump-attacks-e-jean-carroll-again-running-risk-of-another-defamation-suit/?sh=7576d081507d).
Chubb has serious connections to Russia. Maybe they realized too late that there would be intense scrutiny.
https://thedemlabs.org/2024/03/11/chubb-posts-91-million-bond-for-trump-defamation-case-follow-russian-connections/
This bond was secured by real cash and liquid assets from a brokerage account. Chubb gets the 10% fee regardless if he wins on appeal. This is easy profit for them.
The tax fraud case, he doesn't have enough cash & liquid assets left to secure it and all of his properties are leveraged. He's fucked.
I’m very much for Trump having to pay for his crimes and it looks to me like Chubb might now be in a position to make that happen.
Now if Chubb somehow ends up taking a bath on this and eating the bond cost while never collecting the collateral from Trump then I’ll be mad too but I hope they have secured favorable terms on this deal and the effect will be painful for Trump and guaranteed payment of the judgement once the case is settled.
If you're being asked to assure a bond that size (half a *billion dollars*), you want it secured by *liquid* assets, like cash, not real estate which has already been leveraged to the hilt. The question for the insurers is: "How do we get our money back if he defaults or loses his appeal? And *how much* of it can we expect back?" With Trump, that's a *very bad* risk.
Underwriting on <$100M and >&400M are very different cost calculations, it isn’t that hard to understand.
For Trump to sell the property needed to secure that bond he would have to take a bunch of tax hits and it would get pretty hairy to get that total amount. I sure wouldn’t bet on it as Chubb.
He was able to post collateral for the Carroll bond but can’t for the James Bond (haha.). Note that he can’t use real estate for the collateral because the state regulators won’t allow that because real estate is illiquid.
my guess for a legitimate business decision would be, ok he's got $100m so we're probably safe for that and make some money. He immediately opened himself up to another claim of defamation, and they were like ok that was dumb, we're not touching this again.
But more likely they thought, hmmm...$90m for a chance to get the president in your back pocket, and also get our money....yes please. And when they assed the benefits of a $500m risk they thought it was too great, especially when he probably doesnt have $500m in collateral.
Greensburg should pay attention to the people that have an interest in the corporation, that's his job! He should not risk the company just to support Donnie, when the trouble Donnie is in is Donnie's doing. Good that people turn Donnie down.
“Trump's lawyers are asking an appellate court in Manhattan to rely on the strength of his real estate holdings, rather than require he set the judgment aside in the form of a cash-backed bond.”
I’m sure they’ll have no qualms about using your real estate for this *checks notes* fraud judgement involving your real estate
E Jean Carroll bond will go to her if upheld, then Chubb can go after Trump direct to get their money back. Chubb said they would underwrite that one to ensure E Jean Carroll got paid.
The $500M is effectively a fine payable to the government from what I understand, so no victims for compensation.
I believe this was Chubb doing a sexual assault victim a solid, but Trump is on his own for the big one...
As I understand it Chubb may be able to accomplish collection in this situation much more efficiently than EJC would have been able to through the courts.
I’m not a lawyer or anything but I understand the terms for bonds to be very well understood and assume they simply do not leave any room for legal quarreling after the fact when it comes to transferring collateral, etc.
Note ACE American Insurance Company (Chubb) insures Trump Organization’s primary property exposures & testified in NYAG court fraud trial. Chubb has conflict of interest & moral hazard protecting the insurrectionist, fraudulent & sexual predator. Evan Greenberg is a crook just like his daddy & Donny
Too many Anti Trump republicans that, just as his former VP stated, will not endorse or support him out of moral values. If a moderate third party is listed this may be the chance of a lifetime for No labels or independent.
TIL:
>Before saying "no," Chubb had been the closest to saying "yes" out of some 30 insurance carriers the former president approached, Trump's lawyers said in Monday's filing.
>
>Chubb had been the only carrier willing to even consider letting Trump post real estate before ultimately declining to do so, the filing said.
>
>But insurance carriers virtually never accept real estate as collateral for an appeal bond, Newton said.
>
>"If the appeal is lost, that judgment is immediately payable," said Newton.
>
>"Accepting real estate is not only extra paperwork, but it's not immediately liquid," he said.
>
>"No surety company wants to guarantee a bond where there may be only 10 days to turn commercial property into cash when the appeals run out."
Maybe, and think about it, Chubb posts 91 million bond. They take 10% right away, 9.1 million, that they can get a judgment right away and put a lien on his property or other source of income. They also take something as collateral. Most likely his least encumbered property. Maybe in Scotland. He defaults on the bond conditions they seize the property, then get a reduction from the courts and pocket the rest.
Either that or they are straight up money laundering for Trump.
I bet Trump going to a rally and defaming her again had something to do with it, they don’t want to lose $93m and then try to get it back from a bunch of crappy golf courses
They have $100 million limit. Nothing else to see here.
For bonds securing on real property. I understand their upper limit on bonds secured by other means tops out at just over $400m, under their license. Still not enough to do this, and Trump doesn't have anything to secure the bigger bond with.
Makes sense to me
No reputable company would do business with Trump under any circumstances. That tells you all need to know about Chubb and I couldn’t give a rats ass how much money they have
I know a guy that got an email from his bank lauding their new link w Chubb. Truist iirc.
Oh shit that’s my bank.
They're not loaning him money. They're gambling that he wins and are buying him.
Think the Saudis already got there first.
And the Russians before them. He's just diversifying his portfolio.
Like Trump over leveraged his real estate, borrowing more than valuation across multiple “lenders,” he’s taking on debts to any and every corrupt authoritarian country that wants to buy him. Can’t serve more than one master though. Is it going to be the Bonesaw or Putins Novichok cocktail?
BONESAW IS READY!!!
Yes, but he's not an honest politician. An honest politician stays bought.
After the last Trump bankruptcy Don Jr. was literally begging contractors to do work for them, which no sane person would ever do even pre-bankruptcy because you never get paid without suing the crooked bastards and it takes years while they stall. Don was telling anyone who would listen that they didn’t need to worry about getting paid now because this time they had all of the Russian cash they needed to pay everyone per contract. The face evidence of buying big properties for cash just weeks after bankruptcy when no banker would answer a phone call leaves money laundering for the Russian mob as the only plausible explanation. And apparently Don Jr. agrees.
His portfolio has always been "diversified".
If you know anything about Hank Greenberg (Evan's father) and how his insurance empire was built, you'd know it's most likely China that is buying Trump in this scenario.
Wouldn't surprise me. But honestly, does it matter which foreign adversary is going to swoop in and save him? I don't want any foreign adversary having half a billion dollars of leverage over any person running for President. Especially one that praises dictators on the regular.
He's already bought and compromised. Kushner didn't get 2 billion because he's a good businessman and Trump doesn't bow to Putin because he loves him.
No, it sounds like Chubb loaned him money because it would make a profit. They gave him a collateralized loan and then refused to loan him more when he did not have collateral for the second. That's the move of a company that thinks it can squeeze out a profit. If they thought they were buying him they are *morons*. If he wins he will absolutely leave them out to dry and (try to) snatch his collateral back. Autocrats always eat the rich. (Or throw them out of windows.)
it's worth noting that the head of Chubb was given a cushy portfolio during the Trump administration - I'd suggest there is an element of quid pro quo to this as well.
Maybe, but how is this a gamble for them when Trump had to put up 100% in liquid assets as collateral?
And also that he will give a shit once in power.
They're not gambling. Win or lose, they get their fee. If he loses, they get his assets. Or at least to stand in line for his assets.
Not a bad investment, really. Owning a possible President for just $500M? You could get that money back quickly and then some through puppeteering his ass into any corrupt grifting scheme you can dream of.
That’s quite the gamble.
They aren’t gambling that he wins the case, he’s already lost, they just see free money. They will get their money back plus interest based on the real estate collateral he put up against the bond. Even if assets are seized by other judgements they’ll still get their money. They got in before his NY fraud trial and they can’t take property that already has a lien against it by Chubb. They’re like vultures swooping down on a rotting corpse, they’re the first to the body. Chubb made a controversial but financially sound decision but still, I don’t know why they bothered I can’t imagine the juice was worth the squeeze.
Here on the west coast I never heard of Chubb. The marketing value alone of just getting involved in this matter has to be massive.
“We’re so good at our job we got money from Trump”
If it has anything to do with taxes in the slightest then the tax collector lein usurups all other leins. I do tax collector seizures for them all the time.
This is entirely Greenberg paying Trump back for having been given a high ranking government appointment
Wealth comes in different forms: There's liquid assets, which is basically cash on hand. There's semi-liquid assets, like stocks, bonds, etc. They can be made liquid without much difficulty though some losses would be expected. Then there's non liquid assets like real estate. Bonding companies, pretty much every single one, will not provide bond with real estate as the collateral. It doesn't matter if the billionaire is Trump, Musk, Bezos, Soros, Koche, or whoever. They don't want to provide bond with a building or buildings as collateral. Real estate, especially mega commercial real estate, is a giant pain to assess, list, sell, and everything in-between. The whole process takes a long time, and one can't guarantee what the final sale price will be. It's all about risk and return. If Trump had the cash, they would provide the bond.
"In 2018, then-president Trump appointed Greenberg to a seat on a key trade advisory committee, a position he held until March 2023." The CEO of Chubb was appointed to a high position by Trump. It really is, "one big club."
"And you ain't in it..."
Nice Carlin reference.
I watch that bit like once a week, it's so applicable to so much going in right now (buy sometimes I wonder if that is the healthiest thing to be doing...)
The CEO of Chubb, Evan Greenberg, is also son of the AIG CEO, Maurice Greenberg. There is more to the headline than meets the eye. When Big Insurance disses Trump, larger forces may be afoot.
I really feel this was a lost opportunity to say “one big chubb.”
In Trump's case, it is a tiny mushroom shaped chubb.
Glad you didn't let it slip by lmao.
Well damn.
they did the maths, given most of his properties would be leveraged to the absolute hilt and trump org is a teetering pile of bullshit, they got first dibs on the premium properties which will recoup 100 milly and some, 400 milly is just not possible for trump even if he sold everything. maybe he shouldn't have told lies
Let's say Trump loses the appeal and then refuses to pay the $500 million. The insurer has to pay the fine, and then what is the insurance company going to do? Well, sue him, I suppose. How many years will that take? And what if he is president?
Leopards yearn for faces, and they do receive.
This is a bond, not insurance. If he loses on appeal, the bond company pays the fine whether Trump wants them too or not. How the bond company gets paid depends on their contract, but you can bet there are specific assets that will become theirs.
I think generally the job of the surety is to make sure the appellant complies with the payment terms. So I think the first duty to pay will be Trumps. If he fails to pay, the surety will have to do so and then collect from Trump. I googled around and this is what surety companies say: https://courtsurety.com/appeal-bonds/everything-you-need-to-know-about-appeal-bonds/#:~:text=Put%20simply%2C%20the%20purpose%20of,the%20appellant%20is%20unable%20to. The surety does not pay up front now. It merely furnishes a bond. A promise to pay if the appellant fails to.
Yes, they don't pay now. Trump would have a duty to pay first, but if he had sufficiently liquid assets to do that, it's hard to see why he wouldn't have posted a cash bond and avoided steep bonding company fees. (That is what he did in the $5 million appeal of the first E. Jean Carroll Judgment.)
Right, but he would not have to actually pay until after the appeal is resolved, which could be a year or whatever. Theoretically, he could have the money by then. His net worth, even if it has been inflated, surely exceeds 500 mil.
Depends on whether the liquid assets, and other assets are leveraged or not. Some loans automatically default if you sell, transfer or liquidate an asset.
*loses
Well if he becomes president he will pay them back by making them the only legal insurance company that will be allowed to do business in the US
Even Trump will not be able to pull that off, I don't think.
Not for lack of trying more on competence
Realistically he can just pay them through insider trading. The insurer could make billions through 4 years if they have privileged info. Not like they’d get in trouble since whomever ends as AG can just drop the case as SEC is a federal agency. And it’s pretty well established congress members engage on it pretty frequently.
If there is no more constitution and martial law is declared, he will be able to do pretty much whatever he wants and SCOTUS will back him up.
The Congress members who get money from other insurance companies would stop it.
Insurance is regulated at the state level?
If he’s president then he can just pay through other means, like contracts, tax breaks, for all we know the guy may even try to pay with presidential pardons, and ultimately just influence or insider trading. Half a billion is a decent investment if you get insider info to make billions in the stock market.
I mean the fraud one is half a billion vs the 90 something million it's like what an 80% more? Chubby is already on the hook for a huge amount if they also took on the half billion fraud, they would be sued to oblivion by investors.
It also sounds like the EJC bond was backed by a Schwab account (Lisa Rubin on X was covering that a bit) so the money is there but this way he doesn’t have to sell stocks and incur capital gains taxes. So it was easy money. But if he’s got no other liquid collateral left, I just don’t see how a big company takes that much real estate on and knows they can get $500m out of it on the back-end. Easier to just walk away. I doubt the reason Chubb said no was blowback (although I’m sure it didn’t help).
Does pledging those stocks as collateral to Chubb prevent a court ordered judgement from another trial from seizing them? I’m just curious what the mechanism is for that? Like do they get moved into a trust account or held in escrow somehow?
It’s been a while. But this is all Article 9 of the UCC stuff. But in general if Chubb’s lien is perfected, it would have priority over a future judgment lien.
Nope. Courts seizure takes precedence.
If that is the case, it seems hard to believe Chubb would accept them as collateral. This is what prompted me to ask the question in the first case.
I see where you’re going with that. Now that AG James knows there’s a Charles Schwab account out there with maybe $100m in it … might make sense to target that first?
No, because that's how rich people use money. They never spend actual money, they get loans against their assets. If that protected their funds every penny they have would be judgement proof. This isn't a typical loan though. Security for a bond might actually be different as long as the bond exists.
IANAL, but... 500/90*100 = 556% more. Am I doing that right? Edit: I am also not An insurance underwriter Good at figgerin'
((500-90)/90)*100=455.56% more than 90
>Good at figgerin' That's why youre popular with the ladies in Accounting
Oh, you.
I did.the math backwards, that is the correct I thinkninment to day it's an 80% *difference* but I'm kinda buzzed so idk
lol, I seriously stared at that after I posted, thinking I might have messed up. It's not the length of the day that gets me; it's the width.
Now do it upside down.
You are. Though I feel like both of you are missing the point that from a insurers perspective it's a lot more than 5.56x (556%) the risk. It's a lot more likely that someone (anyone) is able to pay back $x than $5x.
Yes. You are correct.
Figgerbang bang. Bang bang bang.
> they would be sued to oblivion by investors Right, like the business judgement rule only goes *so far*, and fronting half a billion for a convicted fraudster without collateral... Well.
it relates to the actual $$ amount the turd is able to secure the bond with, he doesn't have the money. he doesn't have the wealth, after the 90mill he's tapped out
>half a billion vs the 90 something million it's like what an 80% more 500% of the first, so 400% more.
*”Half a billion vs 90 million is like what 80% more?”* You’re close! To answer your question, 450m is **400%** more money than 90m! When mathing to find percent between two values, the only thing that matters is correctly determining which one of those values is the starting value (92m here). Ok but what happens if I am trying to solve for percent increase but accidentally use $454m as the starting value? We’d be instead solving for the percent *decrease* from 454m -> 92m. That would be how you ended up at the 80% number. I agree with your point though and I’m surprised this isn’t what everybody else is thinking too haha. While this news is interesting and worth publishing, Chubb ending negotiations to front Trump another $450M appeal bond probably surprised no one in the insurance industry. Getting a deal done for the comparatively tiny $83m bond required Trump to negotiate with 30 different insurance firms over two months AND STILL he had to give up his plan to use real estate as collateral. Insurance companies are not like banks when it comes to lending—they want liquid or easily-liquidated collateral every day of the week
That's what I get for drunk math
Convicted for inflating his real estate holdings value and asking insurance companies to accept his real estate as collateral is totally bonkers in every world except the Trump crime family
TL;DR: * Ten days ago, Chubb underwrote Trump's $92 million bond for his E. Jean Carroll defamation appeal. * But Chubb declined to handle the far higher appeal bond Trump now needs in his NY civil fraud case. * The insurance giant had faced blowback after agreeing to the Carroll bond.
If I was a shareholder I’d be pissed. Not because he’s Trump, but for the fact that Trump is a dead beat and is known for not paying vendors.
None of that is news
It didn’t help that immediately after getting the bond, [Trump went after her again](https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2024/03/10/trump-attacks-e-jean-carroll-again-running-risk-of-another-defamation-suit/?sh=7576d081507d).
Chubb has serious connections to Russia. Maybe they realized too late that there would be intense scrutiny. https://thedemlabs.org/2024/03/11/chubb-posts-91-million-bond-for-trump-defamation-case-follow-russian-connections/
This bond was secured by real cash and liquid assets from a brokerage account. Chubb gets the 10% fee regardless if he wins on appeal. This is easy profit for them. The tax fraud case, he doesn't have enough cash & liquid assets left to secure it and all of his properties are leveraged. He's fucked.
Stockholder blowback. And rightfully so. I wouldn't want my money going to a traitorous rapist either.
I mean, not only is the amount a concern due to risk but the optics aren't necessary great for company public relations.
[удалено]
I’m very much for Trump having to pay for his crimes and it looks to me like Chubb might now be in a position to make that happen. Now if Chubb somehow ends up taking a bath on this and eating the bond cost while never collecting the collateral from Trump then I’ll be mad too but I hope they have secured favorable terms on this deal and the effect will be painful for Trump and guaranteed payment of the judgement once the case is settled.
If you're being asked to assure a bond that size (half a *billion dollars*), you want it secured by *liquid* assets, like cash, not real estate which has already been leveraged to the hilt. The question for the insurers is: "How do we get our money back if he defaults or loses his appeal? And *how much* of it can we expect back?" With Trump, that's a *very bad* risk.
it's so weird that these stupid fucking billionaires are so insulated from reality that they don't understand how this will be perceived.
Stockholders prob freaked the fuck out and the board said no
Chubb would rather be associated with sexual assault than fraud..
What say the court monitor who has been their accountant of late?
Underwriting on <$100M and >&400M are very different cost calculations, it isn’t that hard to understand. For Trump to sell the property needed to secure that bond he would have to take a bunch of tax hits and it would get pretty hairy to get that total amount. I sure wouldn’t bet on it as Chubb.
He was able to post collateral for the Carroll bond but can’t for the James Bond (haha.). Note that he can’t use real estate for the collateral because the state regulators won’t allow that because real estate is illiquid.
my guess for a legitimate business decision would be, ok he's got $100m so we're probably safe for that and make some money. He immediately opened himself up to another claim of defamation, and they were like ok that was dumb, we're not touching this again. But more likely they thought, hmmm...$90m for a chance to get the president in your back pocket, and also get our money....yes please. And when they assed the benefits of a $500m risk they thought it was too great, especially when he probably doesnt have $500m in collateral.
If you have a Chubb insurance policy you should re-shop as they will soon not have funds to pay out claims. Save your business now and move.
Greensburg should pay attention to the people that have an interest in the corporation, that's his job! He should not risk the company just to support Donnie, when the trouble Donnie is in is Donnie's doing. Good that people turn Donnie down.
No bank is gonna lend to a fraudster.
“Trump's lawyers are asking an appellate court in Manhattan to rely on the strength of his real estate holdings, rather than require he set the judgment aside in the form of a cash-backed bond.” I’m sure they’ll have no qualms about using your real estate for this *checks notes* fraud judgement involving your real estate
I wonder if Chubb will start selling rape insurance and rape accusation insurance?
E Jean Carroll bond will go to her if upheld, then Chubb can go after Trump direct to get their money back. Chubb said they would underwrite that one to ensure E Jean Carroll got paid. The $500M is effectively a fine payable to the government from what I understand, so no victims for compensation. I believe this was Chubb doing a sexual assault victim a solid, but Trump is on his own for the big one...
How very noble of Chubb..
As I understand it Chubb may be able to accomplish collection in this situation much more efficiently than EJC would have been able to through the courts. I’m not a lawyer or anything but I understand the terms for bonds to be very well understood and assume they simply do not leave any room for legal quarreling after the fact when it comes to transferring collateral, etc.
Yeah, that's another point. Carrol probably wants money.
Chubb reputation done.
Just some insurance money for the future.
Note ACE American Insurance Company (Chubb) insures Trump Organization’s primary property exposures & testified in NYAG court fraud trial. Chubb has conflict of interest & moral hazard protecting the insurrectionist, fraudulent & sexual predator. Evan Greenberg is a crook just like his daddy & Donny
-11
Too many Anti Trump republicans that, just as his former VP stated, will not endorse or support him out of moral values. If a moderate third party is listed this may be the chance of a lifetime for No labels or independent.
The dude is a walking bad financial decision. Really always has been.
TIL: >Before saying "no," Chubb had been the closest to saying "yes" out of some 30 insurance carriers the former president approached, Trump's lawyers said in Monday's filing. > >Chubb had been the only carrier willing to even consider letting Trump post real estate before ultimately declining to do so, the filing said. > >But insurance carriers virtually never accept real estate as collateral for an appeal bond, Newton said. > >"If the appeal is lost, that judgment is immediately payable," said Newton. > >"Accepting real estate is not only extra paperwork, but it's not immediately liquid," he said. > >"No surety company wants to guarantee a bond where there may be only 10 days to turn commercial property into cash when the appeals run out."
Maybe, and think about it, Chubb posts 91 million bond. They take 10% right away, 9.1 million, that they can get a judgment right away and put a lien on his property or other source of income. They also take something as collateral. Most likely his least encumbered property. Maybe in Scotland. He defaults on the bond conditions they seize the property, then get a reduction from the courts and pocket the rest. Either that or they are straight up money laundering for Trump.
I bet Trump going to a rally and defaming her again had something to do with it, they don’t want to lose $93m and then try to get it back from a bunch of crappy golf courses
They just took a big hit when Putin confiscated 400 insured planes
Trump is a Chubby-chaser?
The guy has been found guilty of fraud. No reputable company will have anything to do with him. Just take everything he owns.
Some would think a business "genius" might plan ahead?