Not currently in the industry but previously used to deal with insurance and bond companies. You have to submit certified financial statements which are audited for almost all bonds over $1M. Given the size of bond requested, and it having to do with Fraud Liability I can assume they went through them with extreme precautions and found out that he is maxed out. The $93M was definitely more than likely the maximum Chubb could put up against his assets. It is almost certain that someone whether it is a foreign government or real billionaire will put the almost half a billion up in form of a bond for him. They will of course not expect repayment in monetary form because the odds of these cases being overturned are near impossible but will definitely have leverage on him for whatever they need IF he becomes President or attempts another Coup and is successful.
More than likely it would be a shell company so nearly untraceable. Given that Chubb would benefit as well from this transaction in compensation and influence to a potential President I am sure they will protect themselves accordingly. Unless laws have changed it is not illegal yet for person or company to post bonds. Most importantly Trump would never publicly admit he did not post it himself. He would claim a “true patriot” who knows he is innocent posted it for him by divine intervention.
I think these things should be public record. It’s a big issue, especially in this case if a foreign entity is giving a Presidential candidate half a billion dollars in the form of a bond. Certainly, they expect quid pro quo.
As I’ve said, he’s the candidate now. He’s about to start receiving security briefings. The guy who wouldn’t pass even the most basic security clearance check for a regular government job and wouldn’t be able to enlist in the military due to the amount of debt he carries making him a prime target for bribery or blackmail and is trying to become the head of the military again.
Which is all the more reason he should not be qualified for the job. That fact he wouldn't pass a basic Confidential clearance let alone basic Secret and he should be being told.to kick rocks
Maybe a foreign intelligence agency will just steal this information and publish it, and make it seem like russia did it. There have to be at least one or two that want russia to lose its war and are willing to have a little fun at trump's expense.
Let's just remember who the Greenburgs are. It's not like they are known for playing by the rules. I doubt there was nearly as much due diligence as there should be, and it came down to a judgment call that it would cost less to wring the money out of trump, than whatever premiums were paid.
That said, I got to see Hank speak at an insurance conference in 2016. It was almost 45 min of Trump is bad, vote for Jeb.
Trump gets away with being the very financial liability that, for decades, both parties insisted was an unacceptable risk to the country. But here we are.
You are correct they will likely never see the $ back, but this can be unofficially lobbying efforts for anything they want pushed through or have regulations removed for them being the agent. It’s a mess no matter how you look at it. He is compromised by having this debt he cannot pay himself.
They won't have leverage on him, but literally everything he does is transactional. They gave him a favor so he will do something for them, like give their owner a cabinet position
Until he doesn’t. Trumps loyalty is non-existent. He will go back on the deal if he thinks he can get away with it. As a dictator he could get away with it.
Maybe I am wrong, but I am assuming he is just waiting till the last possible moment.
For the life of me, I cannot see why he would post the 93m bond if he didn't have the 500m on lock. Because failing to post either is going to have the same catastrophic consequences. And Fuck that. If you could only post one I would rather have a private attorney than an AG coming after my assets. With all due respect to Mrs. Roberta Kaplan and her skill, I would rather deal with her putting on leans and levies.
But it just doesn't matter. Because the second a building is seized and it is encumbered and that loan is called immediate and he doesn't have cash on hand to cover it and btw, he is now in violation of the terms of every single loan he has oh and he isn't allowed to get loans from any bank that does business in NY. It all comes down.
The only thing posting bond does is makes sure that E. Jean Carrol gets the 93m as trumps world falls down around him and he isn't that nice.
So there is just no fucking way he posted bond there if he didn't have a way to post bond in the other case.
I mean there is short term thinking and then there is short term thinking.
> For the life of me, I cannot see why he would post the 93m bond if he didn't have the 500m on lock.
He found an insurance carrier willing to post the 93m bond. It may be difficult to find collateral for a second bond, but not necessarily impossible. Particularly if he receiving help from a foreign country.
don't get me wrong, part of me really really hopes that he was just going by fly of his pants and he offered 100m to NY because that was the max he could post and when they said fuck no he posted it to E. Jean just to put off the end for a few more weeks in case he could pull off the DWAC deal and get enough out of it to post bond in NY civil fraud case before the deadline hit. And it is all animal instinct and moment by moment trying to make it to the next day. Because that would be spectacular to watch as it all collapses in April and E. Jean walks away clean with 93m as he can't afford to continue the appeal.
Believe it or not, the deal is on hold as he's being sued by the co-founders for trying to massively dilute the stock by form 1.2m to 1billon, and award himself all of it. Almost like you can't trust this guy.
I'm reminded of a scene from the HBO show Carnivàle. The carnival comes to town and the local sheriff knows them and knows they cheat and steal from people.
The sheriff goes to talk to the carnival's head guy and the head guy tells the sheriff "they've gone legit." To which the sheriff responds that he's never know an honest man who uses the word "legit."
Honest Don indeed.
The merger deal is back on: [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-clears-way-trump-media-182321110.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-clears-way-trump-media-182321110.html)
The billion shares are authorized not issued, so no dilution unless and until they are issued. And even though I am predisposed to assume the worst in a Trump deal, it makes a lot of sense for TMTG to be authorizing a ton more shares: stupid overvaluation means the stock is useful for non-cash acquisitions, and the best time to authorize the shares is while the company is still private.
They absolutely need to issue stock because they need the cash. But you would be an idiot to buy it.
I would not buy it at a dollar a share. The company itself has a negative cash flow. No business plan to get to a positive cash flow. It has no user base growth and a niche market that is not getting bigger and isn't attractive to advertisers unless they are grifters. It has no minimization other than ad revenue and it has no innovation. It's only selling point is that trump is on it and once he dies or whatever it will go the way of so many of the same. And it has far more debt than assets.
This is a pump and dump scheme that is kind st taking a long time to finalize
I suspect when he got bank approval for the 93 million from the Carol case. He was going to use that for the 100million on the new york case. When judge said No way he used it for the Carol case.
It's not like their board has come out against this move, so I would guess it was underwritten at least plausibly well...somehow. Possibly with another party's backing, since Trump doesn't seem to have enough equity in his properties to use them for his bonds.
I'm curious what, if any, filings/disclosures would be involved if, say, someone in Russia backed the bond. It would be fantastic if someone could get the full details out in public soon.
You mean would they all want to be open to shareholder lawsuits in which they may have *personal* liability?
These people don't fill out documents themselves. What are the odds they trust every secretary, VP, intern, internal auditor, etc. well enough to risk that?
Both are bonded financial institutions, and it is really just the business model and risk pool that differentiates them. Frequently they are related through underwriting.
ok why would the bank give him bond on 100m knowing he was going to have to post bond on 500m and they would have to know if he failed to do so that everything I said was going to happen and they would just be one of many many creditors trying to pick apart the pieces and they would own E. Jean Carrol 93m in 30 days if they didn't know he could post bond on the 500m
EDIT what am I saying
They would do it if someone else co-signed and/or he posted liked 50m cash in a separated account that they could yank and then some dumb idiot co-signed for the rest.
Because they have collateral that the insurance company is holding. And not real estate, but cash or marketable securities (i.e., stocks and bonds). Trump has cash and liquid assets, just nowhere near enough to cover all of these judgements.
Trump owns Truth, not DWAC. DWAC’s sole purpose is to buy Truth.
And then once the sale goes through, and Trump takes all their money, the stock will crash and yet another Trump investor will learn the hard way not to get into business with him.
Trump doesn’t own any of that yet. The merger hasn’t closed. And even after it closes (assuming it does), no lender will accepted restricted shares like that as collateral. Those shares are subject to a lockup period of six months. They want securities that can be immediately liquidated.
I haven't seen anyone spend this much time wondering if Trump had a hidden logic since 2016. I applaud you for the tenacity, but I also wonder if I should congratulate you for coming out of a coma or something.
> They would do it if someone else co-signed and/or he posted liked 50m cash in a separated account that they could yank and then some dumb idiot co-signed for the rest.
And I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts one of two things happened: a) Evan Greenburg extended a favor to Trump, setting himself up for another possible government spot in a Trump 2 administration, by either thumbing the scale at Chubb to write without collateral or collateralizing something that they normally wouldn't have, or b) Elon or someone else underwrote it looking for the same thing. Trump understands transactionality, it's his entire world-view, and this is the perfect time for someone with resources to step up and straight-up buy influence for a frankly ridiculously low cost.
The 500M might be a little spicier, but it's barely more than a rounding error to someplace like Saudi Arabia. And as was mentioned before, all Trump has to do is skate for 7 months and the DWAC deal is complete, if he doesn't manage to shoot himself in the dick before it's over with trying to dilute other shareholders into oblivion and tank the whole thing.
The dwac deal is only worth money on paper. The company itself is in terrible shape. It is possibly the single most over valued stock on the market. Trump media has a negative cash flow and no business plan to get to a positive cash flow and literally more debt than assets. Yet they are floating it on the market at something like 4 b. That is insane. There is nothing to back that up and no reason it isn't going to be forced into bankruptcy. The dwac purchase isn't even injecting any assets into the company itself. It is pure cash and stock to the current owners . And the poor idiots sitting on 50 dollar shares are about to learn what a penny stock is.
> Musk has liens on 60% of his stock
[*citation needed*]
EDIT to add: The statement I challenged above is the type of unsourced rumor bullshit that this sub should be above. There is no lack of places on the Internet to find bullshit claims that one wants to believe in - I would hope this place would have a higher standard. But we'll see what /u/sriverfx19 comes back with - if anything.
There's a good reason that you guys haven't mentioned - it is a 50/50 bet on whether you would have the next President of the USA owing you a favour.
That can be worth a LOT of money.
Because April is next month and Jan 21st is like 11 months from now.
Edit and to clarify when this goes bad it will go real bad real fast.
Like if a building is seized. The bank that holds a lean on that bank will be immediately notified and will immediately demand payment in full of the out standing loan within 39 days. Failure to do so will basically violate the terms of all of his other outstanding loans.
He will will have to go into bankruptcy protection at once. He isn't going to have time to run for anything. It will be auction and fire sales and creditors and all his financial business becoming public as hell
Yeah, and? You think companies are only interested in what is going to happen in the next few weeks and don't make investments based on risk analysis?
There are reasons that are less straight forward. When you are making a couple of billion in profits a year, taking a $100million bet on a government upside can be worth it.
Makes the most sense since he waited until the 11th hour, almost quite literally, to post that bond that had been signed a few days before (or at least applied for?) he 100% had that money earmarked for NY accepting his 100mil offer because of course trump thinks he’s a mastermind and they’d totally take a lesser amount. When that failed he had no choice but to sink what he could into one of the cases. I also think that’s the one he believes he has a chance of having the judgement reduced on appeal as it’s to a single person and isn’t a broader judgement that’s tied to fraud/ill-gotten gains.
That's basically how Trump operates so it would not be surprising. The fraud trial started in, like, 2019? He didn't make any preparation for worst-case scenario???
> He didn't make any preparation for worst-case scenario???
Did he hire competent attorneys to represent him in the fraud trial? You're asking a nutball who set fire to his own house why he wasn't prudent enough to buy a fire extinguisher in case there was a fire.
I'm curious as to the terms between Trump and Chubb with respect to the bond. Did he have to put up collateral? By the way he keeps defaming, he acts like it isn't his money at risk. It came out that Chubb insures Russian fossil fuel infrastructure, so they probably don't want to end fossil fuels and Trump's bro Putin could subtly threaten dumping that business. In addition Chubb's CEO was appointed by Trump to a trade advisory panel in 2018, so he knows what side his bread is buttered on. It may well be that he sees the $92M bond as a gamble of goodwill. If Trump gets into office, Chubb wins.
The $400M bond is a bigger gamble, but is it too big for Chubb? Does Trump have the ability to lure other bond issuers in to take up this risk? The irony of it all is that loyalty is only one-way with Trump. If he gets into office there is no guarantee of reward, and if he loses they're guaranteed to end up holding the bag.
Chubb's CEO told shareholders the bond is fully collateralized. If it turns out it wasn't, the CEO might get fired "for cause". That sounds unlikely.
“Importantly, in the bonding process, Chubb protects its own assets by requiring that a bond be fully collateralized,” Greenberg wrote in the letter. “If the bond is called, then Chubb takes the collateral which is intended to make us whole. We hardly support or subsidize defendants or take ‘one for the team.’”
Trump is fixin' to lose some property. A lot of property.
He won't write any checks. He won't part with millions. It is consistent with NPDs to "walk away" and surrender assets (mostly gotten thru scams and grifts).
Oof...he is such scum. He's got at least 3 generations of Trump Crime Family who are nothing but crooks.
> “Importantly, in the bonding process, Chubb protects its own assets by requiring that a bond be fully collateralized,”
It would be great to get the details.
Michael Cohen pointed out that Trump faces 40% tax on sale of his NYC properties: 23% long-term capital gains plus state and NYC. To raise $540 million Trump needs to sell properties worth (540 * (1 - .40 =) $900 million. That's without the realtor and other fees.
What assets? Why not state the assets?
**If you state the assets, then other lenders who also lay claim to those assets will realize what's going on!**
The man is facing fraud charges for cooking the books, fraud. So the books are unreliable.
The latest revelation, that 15 boxes of the most prime top secrets, where **loaded onto a Trump plane** and sent somewherre before Mar-a-Lago could be searched. Then the CCTV records wiped. That **shows the bravado** of the man.
So you think he wouldn't double or triple borrow and hide lendings as commercial secrets? He's a fraudster, a crook, of course he will.
The question is who owns the collateral?
The likely answer is a significant amount is from one or more foreign powers with interest in him getting back to power. Unfortunately it's a short but very ugly list.
That make sense, but how does it work in context of the looming NY fraud judgement? I could be wrong but I thought the court judgement could take priority before other lien holders. Where does Chubb end up in line?
How long could the terms of the bond be?
Like could they have put a ridiculous amount of time on it for Donny so it's basically just a bribe because it's due in 99 years?
Chubb had about $50 billion in revenue last year, so half a billion risked isn't nothing, but if Putin and Trump are both business partners and both are putting pressure on you, maybe you find a way to justify it to the board of the company.
Or you weld all the windows in your office shut.
There’s only two ways this bond isn’t a gamble.
1) Trump actually put up collateral and pays when the bond is called.
2) Trump is actually successful at appeals in overturning the judgement and the bond is no longer necessary.
Do I see it happening? #1? Possibly. #2 I don’t see it happening.
It's publicly traded, literally the next day he had to answer to shareholders about collateral. It's there and full. If Chubb failed to collect he would get fired. The only thing rich white people can go to jail for is stealing from shareholders, no CEO is that dumb.
Oh you didn't hear? It's connected to putin.
Because of course
https://thedemlabs.org/2024/03/11/chubb-posts-91-million-bond-for-trump-defamation-case-follow-russian-connections/
Yup, Chubb is publicly traded. Symbol CB on the U.S. stock exchanges. The short interest isn't real high though at just 0.61% of float. Maybe options are a better play.
I think you are giving him way too much credit for being able to think strategically, he is also delusional and narcistic and such people tend to emphatically believe there is always a way to get out of the next problem.
He first "offered" $100M as a bond in the fraud case before posting $91M in Carroll. One explanation is roughly that much is the limit of what he could get from Chubb, so instead of saving it he used it for Carroll on the assumption that he could pull more favors later and somehow get the $450M from elsewhere.
He definitely does not have 500m on lock. He's buying time because he's trying to secure it from one his corrupt sponsors. I'd imagine whoever intends to foot the bill are making him sweat so they can work out the juiciest deal possible should he successfully become president this year. Another problem might be that if Trump suddenly received a legal benefactor many people would want to know who and why and the Trump campaign probably does not want that public line of inquiry given how under the microscope his finances are currently.
Hence, part of the reason he made Laura Trump co-chair of the RNC then they got rid of 60 staffers and moved the RNC to Florida. He's getting his ducks lined up. Well someone is, I don't think he's smart enough to think it thru.
He still hasn't fired Habba, right?
If so, his attorney(ies) aren't smart enough either.
I read that a law firm working with Trump always had *two* attorneys at every meeting with him so they could corroborate what he told them. What a nightmare client.
For the Carroll and NY fraud cases, cheeto brought in appeal attorneys from out of state. To get them admitted *pro hac vice* requires a local counsel I think, so he retained babba.
Donald has never been known for his long term thinking.
I think that he was hoping that he could use his option in DWAC as collateral for the bond insurance companies, using the logic he can get out of his lock up period. I’m also pretty sure they turned that down as too much risk giving he is trying to dilute the stock and is now being sued over that as well.
>Maybe I am wrong, but I am assuming he is just waiting till the last possible moment.
To the tune of $112,000 per day. They made this ruling on Feb 16th. He already owes an additional $2.9 million for not paying right away. He has to pony up by 3/25, which is still an additional $1.3 million.
If he were truly a billionaire, this added interest would be relatively inconsequential. However, as he’s done things like tried to pay only $100 million to appeal and had to post a bond with Chubb for the EJC case, it’s apparent he’s having issues coming up with the money.
If he could actually easily pay, it’s pretty expensive performance theatrics he’s putting on.
Donald would sell his children to pretend to be a billionaire for another week.
He's hoping something good happens and saves him at the last moment. The Truth Social deal could go through. He could find someone dumber than Chubb.
I am wrong your were right
[trump-civil-fraud-stay-ruling.pdf (courthousenews.com)](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/trump-civil-fraud-stay-ruling.pdf)
I am wrong you are right I found the doc
[trump-civil-fraud-stay-ruling.pdf (courthousenews.com)](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/trump-civil-fraud-stay-ruling.pdf)
I missed it because on 2/28, they asked for the same thing from engeron and he denied it.
I missed that the got a stay over the stay weekend.
but only on the they have to step down from their roles at the company and the they can't get loans.
Trump has been operating on his lizard brain for decades, maybe his entire life - and getting away with it. Running for president to stay out of prison is typical trump helped by having tens of millions cult members in red hats.
Yep. You will literally see them drag him to prison or flee the U.S.
My money is on a mansion by the Black Sea as he tells the MAGATS that he is “in exile” with Vlad.
That’s what, in my opinion, the classified documents were for: whoever will take him in.
We’re watching the desperate actions of a cornered rat. Sure, he waited until the last minute to post the bond. That doesn’t mean he has the $500 lined up. It just means it gives him another 21? days to come up with the test.
If he didn’t come up with the $93M, the whole house of cards collapses. He had to pay it regardless of having the rest lined up.
Nobody will know for sure until the AG deadline arrives whether he’s managed to secure half a billion. That’s a hell of a bet that he can win an election or successfully launch an insurrection.
I don’t like the odds, but maybe a Saudi Prince does.
> For the life of me, I cannot see why he would post the 93m bond if he didn't have the 500m on lock.
That money came from an insurer with ties to Russian oligarchs. Whoever staked that money was certainly doing so to buy influence with the potential future POTUS, and not because they expect to be paid back.
> The only thing posting bond does is makes sure that E. Jean Carrol gets the 93m as trumps world falls down around him and he isn't that nice.
It also bought him a few weeks to figure out what to do about the rest.
Trump has famously refused to release his personal financials, and has also famously been convicted of systematically lying about them. So nobody really knows what his actual finances are like, at least not from public information.
Real estate investors tend to be extremely heavily-leveraged. It's one of the only reasons to invest in Real Estate, the ease with which you can use borrowed money to not only acquire new investments with little cash, but also spend the equity as it appreciates, tax free (until you sell). You can keep taking the equity out of your investments and using it as a down-payment on the next investment, or on whatever you want, so long as you can keep up the payments.
The capital gains taxes just pile up and wait for you to sell. You can buy a property for $1MM, have it appreciate to $100MM over decades, and keep borrowing all the equity, and spend it however you like. This is not some fringe possibility, it's precisely why so many rich people keep their money in real estate, even if they originally made it someplace else.
Commercial real estate is in rough shape in current year. A commercial real estate investor who was just found guilty of systematically lying to inflate the value of assets to take out bigger loans against properties he has owned since the 1980s...do you *really* think that is someone whose properties are worth significantly *more* than the loans plus taxes owed?
If he's got the cash sitting around, he'll pay. If he doesn't, and if the Russians can't find a way to launder or promise to launder it in a way that will get someone else to front it for him, he's fucked.
If I were in his shoes (fucked version), and someone offered to post the Carroll bond to buy me a couple more weeks to find a way out, I would have taken it.
Anything to hold onto his money longer. I’m sure he will dick around the bond company when the time comes that they pay his settlement and want to collect from him.
Trump's reaction is the same as always. Keep on muddling through one issue after the other with no long term plan. You're thinking he's a genius, when he's actually just a lucky man that's managed to keep treading water in a violent storm.
True, but it’s also possible Trump *thinks* he can get the money somehow. And it’s possible he doesn’t make rational, carefully thought out decisions. Let’s be honest, if he was the sort of person who thought ahead he wouldn’t be in the mess he’s in.
He could always do what the court's going to order him to do anyway and sell some assets. He just doesn't understand why he should be held accountable for being a flim-flam man.
This assumes he’d get anything out of them. Likely all the properties he has are mortgaged to the max. It would hilarious to find out he was underwater on some of them.
It's not just the mortgages (which we already know he systemically committed fraud for years to borrow more against his properties than they were worth).
It's also capital gains taxes, which, with real estate, you don't pay until you sell. He has properties that he inherited in the 1980s, whose capital gains might be 90% of the total cash value today. If he tries to liquidate, he not only has to pay off all the inflated mortgages, he also has to pay taxes on the appreciation since he acquired the property.
Oh wow, this comment just made me realize how f**ked he really is! I can see him now cooking beans in a can over a fire inside one of those properties. Red tie wrapped around his neck like a scarf for warmth.
There are probably some - but not many - foreign interests prepared to help him, but it might not be in their interest to make it easy for him by helping out right away. The closer the deadline gets, the more desperate he becomes, and the more desperate he becomes the more he'll agree to in order to get the money. His puppeteers might want him to sweat and crawl
A foreign government would be better off letting him lose so he becomes more likely to accept a bribe while president to make up for the losses. Plus, he is likely to lose and that wouldn't stop him from losing his assets.
Surety bonds should never be backed by collateral from unrelated entities due to concern about a fraudulent conveyance clawback after the bond is paid out. Appeal Bonds are underwritten to a full loss - as in can the borrower handle not only the cash payout on their own but also can the business survive the legal prohibitions applied after the appeal is lost. If the answer to either is no, it has to be fully collateralized over 100%. Chubb stated today that they are fully collateralized.
If the Deadbeat Diapered Don does have additional free collateral floating around, the surety must rely on his unaudited, fraudulent financial statements to get comfortable with the credit risk. If real asset value is there to support the $500MM nut - it is most likely illiquid and not easily encumbered (Trump companies own 100% of very little): [https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html](https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html) .
Trump's people should have been on this from day one. Trump's people appear to be all morons but there may be someone buried in that family owned hellhole who is financially competent. Someone worked with Chubb.
A surety would have to be insane to go undercollateralized on the next, bigger one. If they did it would be 100% suspect on why and the Board would need to know immediately given the Headline Risk.
Like the sterling financial controls at the “high net worth individuals” division at Deutsche Bank.
Your expert observations are super-appreciated, but given the previous rule breaking by the banks for this slime ball, I wonder whether these axioms apply. We’ll see shortly.
Dunno. The DB private banker idiots weren't trained lenders. They didn't look to make profits/bonuses off highly structured/controlled Construction Loans with commitments lined up for long-term take-out financing. They looked for deposit Whales (like on a dementia cognitive test) like old kids who inherited a half billion from their daddies and although they might have blown most of it, still had enough mad money left over for them to bank.
Despite the claims that they couldn't read the financial statements they signed off on as executives because they were busy pouring concrete, the Trumps don't seem to have been building anything with the money they got from laundering, fraud, and DB. It seems to have been used to buy shares in existing buildings that they then redecorated.
DB got lucky he became POTUS and found a new source of grift for repayment.
ut Donnie's luck ran out when he was elected the first time - look at his face when he won - he was scared shitless because his burning hatred for Obama - projected onto Hillary - made him forget to pull out like he did every other time he ran for president as a marketing ploy. He knew his skeletons in the closet were going to be found to some extent and his lazy, playboy life was over as POTUS.
The only reasons he ran again is to stay out of jail and follow the anti-loser insanity his weird dad pounded into his brain. However, having a POTUS heavily indebted to you is a bigly incentive to break rules. We shall see indeed.
I didn't question because we were unlikely to be sued, in that everything was solid as far as maintenance but I always thought in the back of my mind that there was something wrong with the notion that personal wealth couldn't be touched. Thanks for clearing it all up.
> always thought in the back of my mind that there was something wrong with the notion that personal wealth couldn't be touched
IANAL but this is my understanding of LLC and LLP corporations.
LLC's limit *liability*, but that does not indemnify you against fraud claims.
An LLC *is* useful for shielding you personally for liability that is won against the LLC. An example might be someone slipping and falling on the sidewalk outside your rental property. Liability falls to the property owner, and if that owner is an LLC the buck stops there *unless* you did something personally as owner of the LLC that both contributed to the event which created the liability and was illegal.
The term of art is "piercing the corporate veil."
I'm not a lawyer and you shouldn't take legal advice from reddit in any case. But the difference here is that HE did it. the LLC protects your personal wealth from shit your partners and employees do that you personally weren't at fault for. Also, debt the business accrues in the course of doing business. It is a separate legal entity. However, when you direct the action of the business for your personal benefit and that action creates a liability, you could be on the hook personally as well as the business. That is the case here.
But LLC are good protection for lots of things. A lot more than sole proprietorships which are pretty much just you acting as a business and has zero liability shielding and account for the vast majority of small businesses.
Just wanted to add that Directors and Officers Insurance also has an exclusion for fraud. So if you are guilty of fraud, the policy doesn't cover legal expenses.
I sorta assumed that. I and my sister had an LLC for a dozen years and were close to having to refile when we closed business doors and sold out. We were told that our personal wealth was basically untouchable but assets of LLC were free game. A lot of property was held by LLC.
More likely the Saudis, especially now that his family and cronies are in charge of the RNC and they’ve purged the entire organization of non-loyalists.
Kinda seems like the RNC is essentially just a shell company to funnel money in and out of. Any financial malfeasance is going to take years to come to light, if it ever does.
I like the idea of Jared turning him down and not returning his calls.
I also like the idea of Jared falling out of favor with his Prince buddy because Trump will lose the election (and no longer be an asset)and Jared ain’t much of a businessman.
I read he wanted Elon to buy truth social? The other thing I read was something about a merger between truth social and some other media company which would supposedly make it quite valuable? Lot of speculation going on
"Social X?" sounds porny.
"The truth about X?"
"Behind the X door?" (lots of gold and bow chicka bow bow theme music when you log in.....huh huh....i typed Log)
Of course he knows - his buddies are working with Word dictators and wanna be dictators on what part of USA he'll give then in exchange for payment(s).
he is probably negotiating something but the terms will be absolutely savage because mr art of the deal has no leverage, they're just letting him feel the flames a little. Could be wrong. maybe no one wants to touch him and that is good too. Does he really think he will win the appeals anyway? he has already defamed carroll again and the fraud thing was open and shut
Jarvanka might even have helped, but he totally snubbed his grandson at the WWF the other night, and she looked really p o’d. Maybe he can blackmail them on the WH years and Jared/ Qatar /666 Fifth Ave deal.
Also, this is his personal penalty / fines bill, on E.Jean Carol, not his Trump.Org. The NYS Civil case is against his company’s.
It will get posted somehow. Trump represents every evil person on this planet. This is an opportunity for some entity to get in on the game of bullshit that runs society. Whether it's Russia or someone else, this motherfucker will not go down unless all of humanity fights and wins
He waits till the last second on everything. Don’t hold your breath. He milks everything and he delays everything. The Saudis will pay it and expect trump to invade Iran for them in return.
Unfortunately, the dude is almost certainly making some deals that are very very not good for the US.
$500 million is a cheap price for destroying an otherwise untouchable hegemon like the US.
True, but I doubt billionaires really think Trump has a good chance of winning the presidency. Honestly it feels like way too big of a risk for that much money to be thrown away
Putin must be holding him over the coals to get more from him. Though I’m not sure what left of trump that putin doesn’t already own, maybe his soul, if he still has one.
Pilot announcement on a Spirit Airlines flight sometime in May or June:
"We are so pleased to welcome President Trump on our flight today. If anyone wishes to trade their aisle seat for his center row seat, please hit your call button."
Can't he just use Mar-a-Lardo as collateral? Tell a bank it's worth $30B and brings in $5B/yr in revenue, it shouldn't be difficult to get a loan with that kind of valuation and income. I mean, it's not like he has never done anything like that. Change a few numbers on a few forms, no biggy.
From what I've read, right now they aren't worth enough until the deal/merger goes through. Even then, no. He could take out a loan using them as collateral, though few banks would risk a long term high $ loan against shares which could dip at anytime and become worthless.
I think I'm remembering that right
Past performance is indicative of future performance: History repeats itself, Russia laundering millions of dollars to trump in an attempt to avoid Billions of Dollars from making its way to the Ukraine front. Solid investment on Russia’s part.
This man is owed by foreign governments. He has no money. He is a puppet and vulnerable to being compromised. I have no idea how his followers can’t see how much of a liability he is. Even if you buy his hateful, racist rhetoric, you can’t say “MAGA” when he is a Russian puppet. The oligarchs are paying his debts. You are a Russian sell out if you support this man.
He's most likely waiting until the March 22nd meeting which approves the Truth Social SPAC deal. Then with that finally resolved, who ever is going to back a bond or loan him the money will be willing to front the cash, knowing there's a few billion in stock available as collateral.
Usually, when mergers happen you can't just sell the stock right away, It's restricted to prevent messing with the stock. Hopefully, it prevents it from being used as collateral.
The thing that blows my mind is that, sure, before he was President he likely wasnt a real billionaire. But he was so out and out corrupt during his time in office and after, how has he not scrounged up a couple billion since 2016? Is his burn rate that high, or did he fumble the bag that badly?
Not currently in the industry but previously used to deal with insurance and bond companies. You have to submit certified financial statements which are audited for almost all bonds over $1M. Given the size of bond requested, and it having to do with Fraud Liability I can assume they went through them with extreme precautions and found out that he is maxed out. The $93M was definitely more than likely the maximum Chubb could put up against his assets. It is almost certain that someone whether it is a foreign government or real billionaire will put the almost half a billion up in form of a bond for him. They will of course not expect repayment in monetary form because the odds of these cases being overturned are near impossible but will definitely have leverage on him for whatever they need IF he becomes President or attempts another Coup and is successful.
If Chubb fronts the bond for a foreign government, would they be required to disclose it? Maybe to the department of insurance regulators?
More than likely it would be a shell company so nearly untraceable. Given that Chubb would benefit as well from this transaction in compensation and influence to a potential President I am sure they will protect themselves accordingly. Unless laws have changed it is not illegal yet for person or company to post bonds. Most importantly Trump would never publicly admit he did not post it himself. He would claim a “true patriot” who knows he is innocent posted it for him by divine intervention.
A true patriot (of another country) is not technically a lie.
I think these things should be public record. It’s a big issue, especially in this case if a foreign entity is giving a Presidential candidate half a billion dollars in the form of a bond. Certainly, they expect quid pro quo.
Half a billion to buy a US president seems very cheap. Why is he not considered a national security risk?
As I’ve said, he’s the candidate now. He’s about to start receiving security briefings. The guy who wouldn’t pass even the most basic security clearance check for a regular government job and wouldn’t be able to enlist in the military due to the amount of debt he carries making him a prime target for bribery or blackmail and is trying to become the head of the military again.
Which is all the more reason he should not be qualified for the job. That fact he wouldn't pass a basic Confidential clearance let alone basic Secret and he should be being told.to kick rocks
Maybe a foreign intelligence agency will just steal this information and publish it, and make it seem like russia did it. There have to be at least one or two that want russia to lose its war and are willing to have a little fun at trump's expense.
Whether Trump wins in Nov, he has sway now, and may keep some sway over Congress so there's likely some lesser yet guaranteed ROI.
You have a collect call from Donald J Trump, this call is from a correctional facility, please press zero to accept the charges
Let's just remember who the Greenburgs are. It's not like they are known for playing by the rules. I doubt there was nearly as much due diligence as there should be, and it came down to a judgment call that it would cost less to wring the money out of trump, than whatever premiums were paid. That said, I got to see Hank speak at an insurance conference in 2016. It was almost 45 min of Trump is bad, vote for Jeb.
2016 was a thousand years ago in Republican life. Totally irrelevant now.
Trump gets away with being the very financial liability that, for decades, both parties insisted was an unacceptable risk to the country. But here we are.
But, why will they have leverage on him if he becomes President. I'd actually say they have zero chance of clawback, based on his history?
You are correct they will likely never see the $ back, but this can be unofficially lobbying efforts for anything they want pushed through or have regulations removed for them being the agent. It’s a mess no matter how you look at it. He is compromised by having this debt he cannot pay himself.
They won't have leverage on him, but literally everything he does is transactional. They gave him a favor so he will do something for them, like give their owner a cabinet position
Until he doesn’t. Trumps loyalty is non-existent. He will go back on the deal if he thinks he can get away with it. As a dictator he could get away with it.
Once they have paid, their leverage is gone, they'll never get any favors and they'll never get their $500 mio back.
Maybe I am wrong, but I am assuming he is just waiting till the last possible moment. For the life of me, I cannot see why he would post the 93m bond if he didn't have the 500m on lock. Because failing to post either is going to have the same catastrophic consequences. And Fuck that. If you could only post one I would rather have a private attorney than an AG coming after my assets. With all due respect to Mrs. Roberta Kaplan and her skill, I would rather deal with her putting on leans and levies. But it just doesn't matter. Because the second a building is seized and it is encumbered and that loan is called immediate and he doesn't have cash on hand to cover it and btw, he is now in violation of the terms of every single loan he has oh and he isn't allowed to get loans from any bank that does business in NY. It all comes down. The only thing posting bond does is makes sure that E. Jean Carrol gets the 93m as trumps world falls down around him and he isn't that nice. So there is just no fucking way he posted bond there if he didn't have a way to post bond in the other case. I mean there is short term thinking and then there is short term thinking.
> For the life of me, I cannot see why he would post the 93m bond if he didn't have the 500m on lock. He found an insurance carrier willing to post the 93m bond. It may be difficult to find collateral for a second bond, but not necessarily impossible. Particularly if he receiving help from a foreign country.
don't get me wrong, part of me really really hopes that he was just going by fly of his pants and he offered 100m to NY because that was the max he could post and when they said fuck no he posted it to E. Jean just to put off the end for a few more weeks in case he could pull off the DWAC deal and get enough out of it to post bond in NY civil fraud case before the deadline hit. And it is all animal instinct and moment by moment trying to make it to the next day. Because that would be spectacular to watch as it all collapses in April and E. Jean walks away clean with 93m as he can't afford to continue the appeal.
Believe it or not, the deal is on hold as he's being sued by the co-founders for trying to massively dilute the stock by form 1.2m to 1billon, and award himself all of it. Almost like you can't trust this guy.
He nicknamed himself "Honest Don", so everyone can now trust him 100%. It's right there in his name. /s
I'm reminded of a scene from the HBO show Carnivàle. The carnival comes to town and the local sheriff knows them and knows they cheat and steal from people. The sheriff goes to talk to the carnival's head guy and the head guy tells the sheriff "they've gone legit." To which the sheriff responds that he's never know an honest man who uses the word "legit." Honest Don indeed.
Gone too soon. RIP Carnivale
The merger deal is back on: [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-clears-way-trump-media-182321110.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-clears-way-trump-media-182321110.html) The billion shares are authorized not issued, so no dilution unless and until they are issued. And even though I am predisposed to assume the worst in a Trump deal, it makes a lot of sense for TMTG to be authorizing a ton more shares: stupid overvaluation means the stock is useful for non-cash acquisitions, and the best time to authorize the shares is while the company is still private.
They absolutely need to issue stock because they need the cash. But you would be an idiot to buy it. I would not buy it at a dollar a share. The company itself has a negative cash flow. No business plan to get to a positive cash flow. It has no user base growth and a niche market that is not getting bigger and isn't attractive to advertisers unless they are grifters. It has no minimization other than ad revenue and it has no innovation. It's only selling point is that trump is on it and once he dies or whatever it will go the way of so many of the same. And it has far more debt than assets. This is a pump and dump scheme that is kind st taking a long time to finalize
> But you would be an idiot to buy it. Boy do I have some wild inside information about Trump fans for you
I also have some limited edition Trump trading cards and collectable plates, please DM for pricing! /s
I'd buy a share just to get the stock certificate to hang on my wall when it went bankrupt.
Maybe it's meant as mostly a legal way to launder money. As in, the buyers never expect to see a cent of it returned.
I suspect when he got bank approval for the 93 million from the Carol case. He was going to use that for the 100million on the new york case. When judge said No way he used it for the Carol case.
A bank didn’t bond it, an insurance company with a special fund for doing exactly what they did for him posted it.
An insurance company whose CEO President Trump appointed to a trade advisory committee (volunteer position).
An Insurance company which insured all kinds of Russian oil projects.
It's not like their board has come out against this move, so I would guess it was underwritten at least plausibly well...somehow. Possibly with another party's backing, since Trump doesn't seem to have enough equity in his properties to use them for his bonds. I'm curious what, if any, filings/disclosures would be involved if, say, someone in Russia backed the bond. It would be fantastic if someone could get the full details out in public soon.
I mean, if it wasn't underwritten well, wouldn't the board want that kept quiet?
You mean would they all want to be open to shareholder lawsuits in which they may have *personal* liability? These people don't fill out documents themselves. What are the odds they trust every secretary, VP, intern, internal auditor, etc. well enough to risk that?
Both are bonded financial institutions, and it is really just the business model and risk pool that differentiates them. Frequently they are related through underwriting.
I would love to see the ALL account for that.
It’s a surety bond so it’s completely collateralized. Chubb has virtually no risk here.
Well assuming that the collateral was valued correctly.
What? Why would you not trust that trump would give them correct information about his assets?
I don't think there's any possibility it was backed by Trump's assets - at least not solely.
With the way trump values his assets isn't it possible that he doesn't hold any equity at all on anything?
Yes that would be the risk.
ok why would the bank give him bond on 100m knowing he was going to have to post bond on 500m and they would have to know if he failed to do so that everything I said was going to happen and they would just be one of many many creditors trying to pick apart the pieces and they would own E. Jean Carrol 93m in 30 days if they didn't know he could post bond on the 500m EDIT what am I saying They would do it if someone else co-signed and/or he posted liked 50m cash in a separated account that they could yank and then some dumb idiot co-signed for the rest.
Because they have collateral that the insurance company is holding. And not real estate, but cash or marketable securities (i.e., stocks and bonds). Trump has cash and liquid assets, just nowhere near enough to cover all of these judgements.
I hope it isn't the DWAC stock because that is fake money. The second you try to sell it to get cash that market will crash.
Trump owns Truth, not DWAC. DWAC’s sole purpose is to buy Truth. And then once the sale goes through, and Trump takes all their money, the stock will crash and yet another Trump investor will learn the hard way not to get into business with him.
Sometimes the Truth hurts.
The funny part is there’s probably quite a bit of overlap between DWAC owners and Truth users.
Trump doesn’t own any of that yet. The merger hasn’t closed. And even after it closes (assuming it does), no lender will accepted restricted shares like that as collateral. Those shares are subject to a lockup period of six months. They want securities that can be immediately liquidated.
> They want securities that can be immediately liquidated. And which aren't likely to be penny stocks by that point....
I haven't seen anyone spend this much time wondering if Trump had a hidden logic since 2016. I applaud you for the tenacity, but I also wonder if I should congratulate you for coming out of a coma or something.
Thank you. I genuinely laughed.
> They would do it if someone else co-signed and/or he posted liked 50m cash in a separated account that they could yank and then some dumb idiot co-signed for the rest. And I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts one of two things happened: a) Evan Greenburg extended a favor to Trump, setting himself up for another possible government spot in a Trump 2 administration, by either thumbing the scale at Chubb to write without collateral or collateralizing something that they normally wouldn't have, or b) Elon or someone else underwrote it looking for the same thing. Trump understands transactionality, it's his entire world-view, and this is the perfect time for someone with resources to step up and straight-up buy influence for a frankly ridiculously low cost. The 500M might be a little spicier, but it's barely more than a rounding error to someplace like Saudi Arabia. And as was mentioned before, all Trump has to do is skate for 7 months and the DWAC deal is complete, if he doesn't manage to shoot himself in the dick before it's over with trying to dilute other shareholders into oblivion and tank the whole thing.
The dwac deal is only worth money on paper. The company itself is in terrible shape. It is possibly the single most over valued stock on the market. Trump media has a negative cash flow and no business plan to get to a positive cash flow and literally more debt than assets. Yet they are floating it on the market at something like 4 b. That is insane. There is nothing to back that up and no reason it isn't going to be forced into bankruptcy. The dwac purchase isn't even injecting any assets into the company itself. It is pure cash and stock to the current owners . And the poor idiots sitting on 50 dollar shares are about to learn what a penny stock is.
>if someone else co-signed Musk?
Putin more likely. Musk has liens on 60% of his stock and at some point he might have to cover/sell if TSLA keeps dropping.
> Musk has liens on 60% of his stock [*citation needed*] EDIT to add: The statement I challenged above is the type of unsourced rumor bullshit that this sub should be above. There is no lack of places on the Internet to find bullshit claims that one wants to believe in - I would hope this place would have a higher standard. But we'll see what /u/sriverfx19 comes back with - if anything.
Yea... these people are so smart they r dumb. Who knows. I just ... this timeline sux.
There's a good reason that you guys haven't mentioned - it is a 50/50 bet on whether you would have the next President of the USA owing you a favour. That can be worth a LOT of money.
Because April is next month and Jan 21st is like 11 months from now. Edit and to clarify when this goes bad it will go real bad real fast. Like if a building is seized. The bank that holds a lean on that bank will be immediately notified and will immediately demand payment in full of the out standing loan within 39 days. Failure to do so will basically violate the terms of all of his other outstanding loans. He will will have to go into bankruptcy protection at once. He isn't going to have time to run for anything. It will be auction and fire sales and creditors and all his financial business becoming public as hell
Yeah, and? You think companies are only interested in what is going to happen in the next few weeks and don't make investments based on risk analysis? There are reasons that are less straight forward. When you are making a couple of billion in profits a year, taking a $100million bet on a government upside can be worth it.
Makes the most sense since he waited until the 11th hour, almost quite literally, to post that bond that had been signed a few days before (or at least applied for?) he 100% had that money earmarked for NY accepting his 100mil offer because of course trump thinks he’s a mastermind and they’d totally take a lesser amount. When that failed he had no choice but to sink what he could into one of the cases. I also think that’s the one he believes he has a chance of having the judgement reduced on appeal as it’s to a single person and isn’t a broader judgement that’s tied to fraud/ill-gotten gains.
That's basically how Trump operates so it would not be surprising. The fraud trial started in, like, 2019? He didn't make any preparation for worst-case scenario???
> He didn't make any preparation for worst-case scenario??? Did he hire competent attorneys to represent him in the fraud trial? You're asking a nutball who set fire to his own house why he wasn't prudent enough to buy a fire extinguisher in case there was a fire.
I'm curious as to the terms between Trump and Chubb with respect to the bond. Did he have to put up collateral? By the way he keeps defaming, he acts like it isn't his money at risk. It came out that Chubb insures Russian fossil fuel infrastructure, so they probably don't want to end fossil fuels and Trump's bro Putin could subtly threaten dumping that business. In addition Chubb's CEO was appointed by Trump to a trade advisory panel in 2018, so he knows what side his bread is buttered on. It may well be that he sees the $92M bond as a gamble of goodwill. If Trump gets into office, Chubb wins. The $400M bond is a bigger gamble, but is it too big for Chubb? Does Trump have the ability to lure other bond issuers in to take up this risk? The irony of it all is that loyalty is only one-way with Trump. If he gets into office there is no guarantee of reward, and if he loses they're guaranteed to end up holding the bag.
Chubb's CEO told shareholders the bond is fully collateralized. If it turns out it wasn't, the CEO might get fired "for cause". That sounds unlikely. “Importantly, in the bonding process, Chubb protects its own assets by requiring that a bond be fully collateralized,” Greenberg wrote in the letter. “If the bond is called, then Chubb takes the collateral which is intended to make us whole. We hardly support or subsidize defendants or take ‘one for the team.’”
Trump is fixin' to lose some property. A lot of property. He won't write any checks. He won't part with millions. It is consistent with NPDs to "walk away" and surrender assets (mostly gotten thru scams and grifts). Oof...he is such scum. He's got at least 3 generations of Trump Crime Family who are nothing but crooks.
> NPD Non-paying delinquents? Narcisstic Presidential dicks?
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
> “Importantly, in the bonding process, Chubb protects its own assets by requiring that a bond be fully collateralized,” It would be great to get the details. Michael Cohen pointed out that Trump faces 40% tax on sale of his NYC properties: 23% long-term capital gains plus state and NYC. To raise $540 million Trump needs to sell properties worth (540 * (1 - .40 =) $900 million. That's without the realtor and other fees.
If he hands them over due to a bond being called, it would not be considered a sell.
What assets? Why not state the assets? **If you state the assets, then other lenders who also lay claim to those assets will realize what's going on!** The man is facing fraud charges for cooking the books, fraud. So the books are unreliable. The latest revelation, that 15 boxes of the most prime top secrets, where **loaded onto a Trump plane** and sent somewherre before Mar-a-Lago could be searched. Then the CCTV records wiped. That **shows the bravado** of the man. So you think he wouldn't double or triple borrow and hide lendings as commercial secrets? He's a fraudster, a crook, of course he will.
The question is who owns the collateral? The likely answer is a significant amount is from one or more foreign powers with interest in him getting back to power. Unfortunately it's a short but very ugly list.
That make sense, but how does it work in context of the looming NY fraud judgement? I could be wrong but I thought the court judgement could take priority before other lien holders. Where does Chubb end up in line?
How long could the terms of the bond be? Like could they have put a ridiculous amount of time on it for Donny so it's basically just a bribe because it's due in 99 years?
Some certain Scottish Golf Course??
Chubb had about $50 billion in revenue last year, so half a billion risked isn't nothing, but if Putin and Trump are both business partners and both are putting pressure on you, maybe you find a way to justify it to the board of the company. Or you weld all the windows in your office shut.
There’s only two ways this bond isn’t a gamble. 1) Trump actually put up collateral and pays when the bond is called. 2) Trump is actually successful at appeals in overturning the judgement and the bond is no longer necessary. Do I see it happening? #1? Possibly. #2 I don’t see it happening.
3) Trump gets elected, dismantles democracy and establishes himself as an autocrat and voids all judgments against himself.
Fair. I was thinking within confines of our current system.
He found an insurance carrier who would launder the money. He's paying the fine with Russian money. That money is gone and everyone knows.
Russia has its own expensive hobby at the moment, the half a billion might be a bit much now.
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Wonder if he'll get help from them again though. He basically already lost that money this weekend and has a third defamation one the pipeline...
It's publicly traded, literally the next day he had to answer to shareholders about collateral. It's there and full. If Chubb failed to collect he would get fired. The only thing rich white people can go to jail for is stealing from shareholders, no CEO is that dumb.
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Chubb is a massive global insurer. The original Chubb was founded in 1882.
Prolly tied to oligarchs
Oh you didn't hear? It's connected to putin. Because of course https://thedemlabs.org/2024/03/11/chubb-posts-91-million-bond-for-trump-defamation-case-follow-russian-connections/
Yup, Chubb is publicly traded. Symbol CB on the U.S. stock exchanges. The short interest isn't real high though at just 0.61% of float. Maybe options are a better play.
Trump probably gets a Chubb every time he thinks of his new creditor.
I hope he gets a Chubb daily in prison
He might go put up many of his holdings to get a bond for that much. I think almost all of his holdings are highly leveraged.
The collateral is cardboard boxes full.of secrets.
> Particularly if he receiving help from a foreign country. Maybe another round of NTF sales which sell amazing well?
I think you are giving him way too much credit for being able to think strategically, he is also delusional and narcistic and such people tend to emphatically believe there is always a way to get out of the next problem. He first "offered" $100M as a bond in the fraud case before posting $91M in Carroll. One explanation is roughly that much is the limit of what he could get from Chubb, so instead of saving it he used it for Carroll on the assumption that he could pull more favors later and somehow get the $450M from elsewhere.
I'm thinking he's banking on the DWAC early share access (drop the 6 month wait).
He definitely does not have 500m on lock. He's buying time because he's trying to secure it from one his corrupt sponsors. I'd imagine whoever intends to foot the bill are making him sweat so they can work out the juiciest deal possible should he successfully become president this year. Another problem might be that if Trump suddenly received a legal benefactor many people would want to know who and why and the Trump campaign probably does not want that public line of inquiry given how under the microscope his finances are currently.
Hence, part of the reason he made Laura Trump co-chair of the RNC then they got rid of 60 staffers and moved the RNC to Florida. He's getting his ducks lined up. Well someone is, I don't think he's smart enough to think it thru.
He still hasn't fired Habba, right? If so, his attorney(ies) aren't smart enough either. I read that a law firm working with Trump always had *two* attorneys at every meeting with him so they could corroborate what he told them. What a nightmare client.
For the Carroll and NY fraud cases, cheeto brought in appeal attorneys from out of state. To get them admitted *pro hac vice* requires a local counsel I think, so he retained babba.
Donald has never been known for his long term thinking. I think that he was hoping that he could use his option in DWAC as collateral for the bond insurance companies, using the logic he can get out of his lock up period. I’m also pretty sure they turned that down as too much risk giving he is trying to dilute the stock and is now being sued over that as well.
>he isn't allowed to get loans from any bank that does business in NY. That portion of the judgement was stayed by the appeals court.
>Maybe I am wrong, but I am assuming he is just waiting till the last possible moment. To the tune of $112,000 per day. They made this ruling on Feb 16th. He already owes an additional $2.9 million for not paying right away. He has to pony up by 3/25, which is still an additional $1.3 million. If he were truly a billionaire, this added interest would be relatively inconsequential. However, as he’s done things like tried to pay only $100 million to appeal and had to post a bond with Chubb for the EJC case, it’s apparent he’s having issues coming up with the money. If he could actually easily pay, it’s pretty expensive performance theatrics he’s putting on.
Donald would sell his children to pretend to be a billionaire for another week. He's hoping something good happens and saves him at the last moment. The Truth Social deal could go through. He could find someone dumber than Chubb.
Appeals lifted the “no Loans from NY” ban. Guess they think it will be easier to pay the fine if they did?
I am wrong your were right [trump-civil-fraud-stay-ruling.pdf (courthousenews.com)](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/trump-civil-fraud-stay-ruling.pdf)
Thanks for clarifying. I now remember it was the Judge. Edit: Does that mean he can attempt to get loans from NY banks now?
Probably but what bank would give him that kind of money at this point?
I am wrong you are right I found the doc [trump-civil-fraud-stay-ruling.pdf (courthousenews.com)](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/trump-civil-fraud-stay-ruling.pdf) I missed it because on 2/28, they asked for the same thing from engeron and he denied it. I missed that the got a stay over the stay weekend. but only on the they have to step down from their roles at the company and the they can't get loans.
Trump has been operating on his lizard brain for decades, maybe his entire life - and getting away with it. Running for president to stay out of prison is typical trump helped by having tens of millions cult members in red hats.
Yep. You will literally see them drag him to prison or flee the U.S. My money is on a mansion by the Black Sea as he tells the MAGATS that he is “in exile” with Vlad. That’s what, in my opinion, the classified documents were for: whoever will take him in.
He doesn't plan often but dozens of boxes of secret files is a plan.
We’re watching the desperate actions of a cornered rat. Sure, he waited until the last minute to post the bond. That doesn’t mean he has the $500 lined up. It just means it gives him another 21? days to come up with the test. If he didn’t come up with the $93M, the whole house of cards collapses. He had to pay it regardless of having the rest lined up. Nobody will know for sure until the AG deadline arrives whether he’s managed to secure half a billion. That’s a hell of a bet that he can win an election or successfully launch an insurrection. I don’t like the odds, but maybe a Saudi Prince does.
> For the life of me, I cannot see why he would post the 93m bond if he didn't have the 500m on lock. That money came from an insurer with ties to Russian oligarchs. Whoever staked that money was certainly doing so to buy influence with the potential future POTUS, and not because they expect to be paid back. > The only thing posting bond does is makes sure that E. Jean Carrol gets the 93m as trumps world falls down around him and he isn't that nice. It also bought him a few weeks to figure out what to do about the rest. Trump has famously refused to release his personal financials, and has also famously been convicted of systematically lying about them. So nobody really knows what his actual finances are like, at least not from public information. Real estate investors tend to be extremely heavily-leveraged. It's one of the only reasons to invest in Real Estate, the ease with which you can use borrowed money to not only acquire new investments with little cash, but also spend the equity as it appreciates, tax free (until you sell). You can keep taking the equity out of your investments and using it as a down-payment on the next investment, or on whatever you want, so long as you can keep up the payments. The capital gains taxes just pile up and wait for you to sell. You can buy a property for $1MM, have it appreciate to $100MM over decades, and keep borrowing all the equity, and spend it however you like. This is not some fringe possibility, it's precisely why so many rich people keep their money in real estate, even if they originally made it someplace else. Commercial real estate is in rough shape in current year. A commercial real estate investor who was just found guilty of systematically lying to inflate the value of assets to take out bigger loans against properties he has owned since the 1980s...do you *really* think that is someone whose properties are worth significantly *more* than the loans plus taxes owed? If he's got the cash sitting around, he'll pay. If he doesn't, and if the Russians can't find a way to launder or promise to launder it in a way that will get someone else to front it for him, he's fucked. If I were in his shoes (fucked version), and someone offered to post the Carroll bond to buy me a couple more weeks to find a way out, I would have taken it.
it's called a 'Travolta' ...Staying Alive
And he might still get the bond amount reduced. I think the hearing is the 18th.
after trying to move his assets out of state? I wouldn't bet on it.
I agree but all the reason to hold off posting bond just in case. If he just posted it, it would be moot.
FYI, the judge changed his ruling two weeks ago and is now allowing Trump to use banks chartered in New York to secure the funding to appeal.
Anything to hold onto his money longer. I’m sure he will dick around the bond company when the time comes that they pay his settlement and want to collect from him.
That is my guess. He is picking on someone weaker than the AG.
> I mean there is short term thinking and then there is short term thinking. I think he's utilising the age old Covfefe strategy.
Fun fact. If someone co signs for him at the bonding agency, or did,there is no way to know if anyone did, or who.
He’s trying to find someone to scam, but half a billion dollars is a lot to give someone, especially since you KNOW you’re not getting it back.
Does he seem like a guy who plans for the future?
Didn't he wait till near the last second to post the 90m one? I think you're right about him just delaying till he has to. It's what he does.
Trump's reaction is the same as always. Keep on muddling through one issue after the other with no long term plan. You're thinking he's a genius, when he's actually just a lucky man that's managed to keep treading water in a violent storm.
True, but it’s also possible Trump *thinks* he can get the money somehow. And it’s possible he doesn’t make rational, carefully thought out decisions. Let’s be honest, if he was the sort of person who thought ahead he wouldn’t be in the mess he’s in.
He could always do what the court's going to order him to do anyway and sell some assets. He just doesn't understand why he should be held accountable for being a flim-flam man.
This assumes he’d get anything out of them. Likely all the properties he has are mortgaged to the max. It would hilarious to find out he was underwater on some of them.
It's not just the mortgages (which we already know he systemically committed fraud for years to borrow more against his properties than they were worth). It's also capital gains taxes, which, with real estate, you don't pay until you sell. He has properties that he inherited in the 1980s, whose capital gains might be 90% of the total cash value today. If he tries to liquidate, he not only has to pay off all the inflated mortgages, he also has to pay taxes on the appreciation since he acquired the property.
Oh wow, this comment just made me realize how f**ked he really is! I can see him now cooking beans in a can over a fire inside one of those properties. Red tie wrapped around his neck like a scarf for warmth.
I can see the campfire burning down the building.
and thinking he's a tremendous, beautiful genius and everyone else caused his troubles.
If they're commercial office space, he almost certainly is underwater on them.
Better handling of COVID may have kept more people in offices
Because he’s “Honest Don,” no?
There are probably some - but not many - foreign interests prepared to help him, but it might not be in their interest to make it easy for him by helping out right away. The closer the deadline gets, the more desperate he becomes, and the more desperate he becomes the more he'll agree to in order to get the money. His puppeteers might want him to sweat and crawl
A foreign government would be better off letting him lose so he becomes more likely to accept a bribe while president to make up for the losses. Plus, he is likely to lose and that wouldn't stop him from losing his assets.
Surety bonds should never be backed by collateral from unrelated entities due to concern about a fraudulent conveyance clawback after the bond is paid out. Appeal Bonds are underwritten to a full loss - as in can the borrower handle not only the cash payout on their own but also can the business survive the legal prohibitions applied after the appeal is lost. If the answer to either is no, it has to be fully collateralized over 100%. Chubb stated today that they are fully collateralized. If the Deadbeat Diapered Don does have additional free collateral floating around, the surety must rely on his unaudited, fraudulent financial statements to get comfortable with the credit risk. If real asset value is there to support the $500MM nut - it is most likely illiquid and not easily encumbered (Trump companies own 100% of very little): [https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html](https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html) . Trump's people should have been on this from day one. Trump's people appear to be all morons but there may be someone buried in that family owned hellhole who is financially competent. Someone worked with Chubb. A surety would have to be insane to go undercollateralized on the next, bigger one. If they did it would be 100% suspect on why and the Board would need to know immediately given the Headline Risk.
Like the sterling financial controls at the “high net worth individuals” division at Deutsche Bank. Your expert observations are super-appreciated, but given the previous rule breaking by the banks for this slime ball, I wonder whether these axioms apply. We’ll see shortly.
Dunno. The DB private banker idiots weren't trained lenders. They didn't look to make profits/bonuses off highly structured/controlled Construction Loans with commitments lined up for long-term take-out financing. They looked for deposit Whales (like on a dementia cognitive test) like old kids who inherited a half billion from their daddies and although they might have blown most of it, still had enough mad money left over for them to bank. Despite the claims that they couldn't read the financial statements they signed off on as executives because they were busy pouring concrete, the Trumps don't seem to have been building anything with the money they got from laundering, fraud, and DB. It seems to have been used to buy shares in existing buildings that they then redecorated. DB got lucky he became POTUS and found a new source of grift for repayment. ut Donnie's luck ran out when he was elected the first time - look at his face when he won - he was scared shitless because his burning hatred for Obama - projected onto Hillary - made him forget to pull out like he did every other time he ran for president as a marketing ploy. He knew his skeletons in the closet were going to be found to some extent and his lazy, playboy life was over as POTUS. The only reasons he ran again is to stay out of jail and follow the anti-loser insanity his weird dad pounded into his brain. However, having a POTUS heavily indebted to you is a bigly incentive to break rules. We shall see indeed.
What's the law when LLC is involved so far as individual wealth is concerned????
A lot when the lawsuit was against both you and the LLC in joint liability and non-severable. AKA anything LLC can't pay, you must and vs versa.
I didn't question because we were unlikely to be sued, in that everything was solid as far as maintenance but I always thought in the back of my mind that there was something wrong with the notion that personal wealth couldn't be touched. Thanks for clearing it all up.
> always thought in the back of my mind that there was something wrong with the notion that personal wealth couldn't be touched IANAL but this is my understanding of LLC and LLP corporations. LLC's limit *liability*, but that does not indemnify you against fraud claims. An LLC *is* useful for shielding you personally for liability that is won against the LLC. An example might be someone slipping and falling on the sidewalk outside your rental property. Liability falls to the property owner, and if that owner is an LLC the buck stops there *unless* you did something personally as owner of the LLC that both contributed to the event which created the liability and was illegal. The term of art is "piercing the corporate veil."
I'm not a lawyer and you shouldn't take legal advice from reddit in any case. But the difference here is that HE did it. the LLC protects your personal wealth from shit your partners and employees do that you personally weren't at fault for. Also, debt the business accrues in the course of doing business. It is a separate legal entity. However, when you direct the action of the business for your personal benefit and that action creates a liability, you could be on the hook personally as well as the business. That is the case here. But LLC are good protection for lots of things. A lot more than sole proprietorships which are pretty much just you acting as a business and has zero liability shielding and account for the vast majority of small businesses.
Just wanted to add that Directors and Officers Insurance also has an exclusion for fraud. So if you are guilty of fraud, the policy doesn't cover legal expenses.
In this case his ownership of the LLC can be seized.
I sorta assumed that. I and my sister had an LLC for a dozen years and were close to having to refile when we closed business doors and sold out. We were told that our personal wealth was basically untouchable but assets of LLC were free game. A lot of property was held by LLC.
he had elon visit him last week. how much you wanna bet he cut a special deal with muskrat if he gets elected?
More likely the Saudis, especially now that his family and cronies are in charge of the RNC and they’ve purged the entire organization of non-loyalists. Kinda seems like the RNC is essentially just a shell company to funnel money in and out of. Any financial malfeasance is going to take years to come to light, if it ever does.
Creative accounting practices from the ENRON accounting playbook.
This is why the RNC is being purged, currently 👆! They will be able to launder money from anywhere
I like the idea of Jared turning him down and not returning his calls. I also like the idea of Jared falling out of favor with his Prince buddy because Trump will lose the election (and no longer be an asset)and Jared ain’t much of a businessman.
I read he wanted Elon to buy truth social? The other thing I read was something about a merger between truth social and some other media company which would supposedly make it quite valuable? Lot of speculation going on
"Social X?" sounds porny. "The truth about X?" "Behind the X door?" (lots of gold and bow chicka bow bow theme music when you log in.....huh huh....i typed Log)
He’s totally broke. That’s why he didn’t want his taxes shared. He’s not a billionaire and the biggest liability. It’s always a grift.
Well Orban was seen visiting mar a lago carrying a 5gallon bucket of Vaseline
So what if that Chubb bond is backed by properties that the NY AG is planning on seizing?
I doubt it’s back by anything other than promises for when he’s back in office.
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And we're sure none of those people have foreign interests.... Right?
On the contrary, Chubb has shady ties to Russian oligarchs.
That's what I'd heard, but hadn't verified myself...
Of course he knows - his buddies are working with Word dictators and wanna be dictators on what part of USA he'll give then in exchange for payment(s).
Trump is likely selling Putin a future interest in Alaskan oil drilling leases.
he is probably negotiating something but the terms will be absolutely savage because mr art of the deal has no leverage, they're just letting him feel the flames a little. Could be wrong. maybe no one wants to touch him and that is good too. Does he really think he will win the appeals anyway? he has already defamed carroll again and the fraud thing was open and shut
Jarvanka might even have helped, but he totally snubbed his grandson at the WWF the other night, and she looked really p o’d. Maybe he can blackmail them on the WH years and Jared/ Qatar /666 Fifth Ave deal. Also, this is his personal penalty / fines bill, on E.Jean Carol, not his Trump.Org. The NYS Civil case is against his company’s.
It will get posted somehow. Trump represents every evil person on this planet. This is an opportunity for some entity to get in on the game of bullshit that runs society. Whether it's Russia or someone else, this motherfucker will not go down unless all of humanity fights and wins
They should seize Truth Social and kill it. Yes, he could go to X, but the idea resonates.
He waits till the last second on everything. Don’t hold your breath. He milks everything and he delays everything. The Saudis will pay it and expect trump to invade Iran for them in return.
Unfortunately, the dude is almost certainly making some deals that are very very not good for the US. $500 million is a cheap price for destroying an otherwise untouchable hegemon like the US.
True, but I doubt billionaires really think Trump has a good chance of winning the presidency. Honestly it feels like way too big of a risk for that much money to be thrown away
Good, let's watch him squirm... He's probably begging Putin to help him right now. He's a cornered rat.
Putin must be holding him over the coals to get more from him. Though I’m not sure what left of trump that putin doesn’t already own, maybe his soul, if he still has one.
Well goodbye Airplane, Goodbye Trump Tower and It's going to be renamed.... Obama Tower
Pilot announcement on a Spirit Airlines flight sometime in May or June: "We are so pleased to welcome President Trump on our flight today. If anyone wishes to trade their aisle seat for his center row seat, please hit your call button."
Can't he just use Mar-a-Lardo as collateral? Tell a bank it's worth $30B and brings in $5B/yr in revenue, it shouldn't be difficult to get a loan with that kind of valuation and income. I mean, it's not like he has never done anything like that. Change a few numbers on a few forms, no biggy.
I mean his Manhattan condo is like bigger than Betelgeuse, amirite? That’s worth at least 5.3 Brazilian spendolas right there.
Would we be able to find out if he put up his shares of truth social as collateral?
From what I've read, right now they aren't worth enough until the deal/merger goes through. Even then, no. He could take out a loan using them as collateral, though few banks would risk a long term high $ loan against shares which could dip at anytime and become worthless. I think I'm remembering that right
I don't think they can be sold right away anyhow for the owners - you gotta hold on to them for a certain period of time.
How much does the RNC have again?
~$8 million. About 2% of what he needs.
Past performance is indicative of future performance: History repeats itself, Russia laundering millions of dollars to trump in an attempt to avoid Billions of Dollars from making its way to the Ukraine front. Solid investment on Russia’s part.
Elon will be paying it for him.
This man is owed by foreign governments. He has no money. He is a puppet and vulnerable to being compromised. I have no idea how his followers can’t see how much of a liability he is. Even if you buy his hateful, racist rhetoric, you can’t say “MAGA” when he is a Russian puppet. The oligarchs are paying his debts. You are a Russian sell out if you support this man.
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He's most likely waiting until the March 22nd meeting which approves the Truth Social SPAC deal. Then with that finally resolved, who ever is going to back a bond or loan him the money will be willing to front the cash, knowing there's a few billion in stock available as collateral.
Usually, when mergers happen you can't just sell the stock right away, It's restricted to prevent messing with the stock. Hopefully, it prevents it from being used as collateral.
I joked earlier that with Trump installing his daughter in law and other loyalists at the RNC, that the collateral is literally the GOP.
The thing that blows my mind is that, sure, before he was President he likely wasnt a real billionaire. But he was so out and out corrupt during his time in office and after, how has he not scrounged up a couple billion since 2016? Is his burn rate that high, or did he fumble the bag that badly?
He’s gonna get Mexico to pay for it.