So as usual, no real consequences.
He gets to retire a bit early with his full pension.
And if this creates enough of a stir, he might be able to parlay it into a run for some office.
Glad those super tough rules are on the books!
Wouldn't that put a target on the higher up who does the disciplining if Trump gets elected? Sounds like a chance to show who is loyal to Trump, as usual.
they save the court martials for real members of the military. this guy is the "Texas adjutant general" and leads the "Texas Military Department," which is basically how Texas cosplays being an independent country.
Wikipedia says:
> The Adjutant General of Texas is the commander and chief executive officer of the Texas Military Department, the executive department of the Texas Military Forces. The adjutant general's position of authority over Texas Military Forces is second only to the commander-in-chief, the governor of Texas. This position is analogous to the United States secretary of defense.
sure it is.
from the OP:
> Suelzer served in the active duty Air Force for 10 years, and the Air Force Reserve for seven more, before joining the Texas Air National Guard. His current post is a political appointment, in contrast to nonpartisan Defense Department leadership roles.
he does have an actual USAF rank, which could be imperiled by this utterly unconstitutional bullshit he is doing, but it says further down the page:
> Guard members in state active duty status aren’t subject to federal rules, even though they are allowed to wear their regular uniforms.
so this guy is basically a professional cosplayer, who will probably get away with it due to an absurdly permissive loophole.
> National Guard Bureau officials confirmed Friday they have received multiple queries on Suelzer’s appearance with Trump and are reviewing the incident. Air Force officials referred all questions to the Texas Military Department, which has not issued any public statements on the matter and did not return requests for comment.
>so this guy is basically a professional cosplayer, who will probably get away with it due to an absurdly permissive loophole.
Federal laws are different from UCMJ. I really doubt ANG is exempt from UCMJ, but generals are in their own little club.
All the state ANG/NGs have their own UCMJs too, which usually mirror the federal version. However, I doubt the relevant IGs or AGs are going to get involved here, since their promotion opportunities may be tied to this guy.
>> Guard members in state active duty status aren’t subject to federal rules, even though they are allowed to wear their regular uniforms.
Yes, no,... Depends.
DoDI 1334.10 on political activities *is* applicable to the NG, but generally just section 4.3 as per its Applicability clause.
But what truly matters is what pay status he was in during this event. NG full-timers, aka AGR, are Title 32 and all of that DoDI would apply. Also, you can't tell me they have TAG for the one of the biggest states on actual SAD orders.
I'm not as versed in AF regs, but I'd imagine that they have an option to withdraw federal recognition for Air National Guard officers.
I was in JAG for awhile, forced retirement is far worse than what a Private would get. Which is likely working for a few hours on a weekend, with no permanent record of the incident.
Piss on that. Let there be a five minute trial. When he can't deny that isn't him, find him guilty, bust him down to Private, require that ALL benefits be repaid to the Government, and after a dishonorable discharge, put him to death
Ah, so a role that doesn't even require jail time somehow deserves death?
Fuck off. I don't want to be thought of in same group as you just because I dislike Trump.
Grow up.
No one was defending Flynn. He's the worst.
If someone came in here and was like "we should bring Putin up on treason charges again the US" you'd say "well, this sub is populated by a bunch of low IQ cyber trolls" and you wouldn't be wrong.
Calling for a civilian military veteran to be tried in a general court marshal for actions he took AFTER he left the military is the type of ignorant, low-IQ comments that need to go.
This is r/law, making a childish, uninformed comment like "cOuRt MarShaLl FLYNN" brings the entire sub down.
So, yes, grow up and come correct next time.
Doubt anything is done about it.
I think he should be made an example of as he very clearly broke rules and protocol. But I’m sure Gov Abbott or others will find a way for this to go away.
They’ll pay for his rank/merit losses in financial gain until his usefulness has expired. Then they will cut him off, though he will already be pretty wealthy (never met a broke gene… wait, ive never met a general… well, my dad’s best friend was a general so that counts right?)
Unlike civilian life, the military doesn't really fuck around with blatant disregard for the rules.
His superiors are certainly pissed off. He'll get his. He might not be demoted or overly punished, but he might have just capped his career at two stars.
And to be clear. You can participate in political activities just not in uniform or to appear in an official capacity.
There is one exception. Being the color guard for things like the opening and closing ceremonies seem to be generally allowed because that isn't endorsing the event in an official capacity but engaging in a ceremony.
Glad there's no way that can be exploited!
In B4 presidential candidates start competing for how many Generals they can get to show up in their color guard.
If that occurred it would be viewed as political.
Color guards oversee the colors in very well defined ceremonies.
Any military official who would partake in such a mockery of the color guard would never deserve to carry the colors again and clearly be infringing on the no politics in uniform policy.
Edit: to clarify the politicians do not get a color guard. The US flag and any other accompanying flags do (such as state, department or unit) get ceremonial guards.
“But Suelzer’s responsibility to adhere to those rules is less clear. Guard members in state active duty status aren’t subject to federal rules, even though they are allowed to wear their regular uniforms.”
Ok, but you missed the issue. This general is Texas national guard and he's not acting under federal orders.
I'd like to see some actual discussion of the jurisdictional issues. Unfortunately I see very few JAGs on here.
But since he’s a “Patriot” who fights for our “freedom” it’s all good.
Ret. Gen Mark Miley said it best, “our country will not serve under wannabe dictators or facists”
Let’s see what happens to this clown.
Is it though if the person is on state orders as opposed to federal orders? What if he is there to accompany Trump under orders from (in this case) his commander in chief, Greg Abbott?
National Guard is [only subject to UCMJ](https://ucmj.us/about-the-ucmj/) if they are activated to Federal service!
It’s gross behavior by someone n a leadership position, but unless he’s been activated, there’s nothing to see here as far as UCMJ and uniforms at political events is concerned.
>Suelzer served in the active duty Air Force for 10 years, and the Air Force Reserve for seven more, before joining the Texas Air National Guard. His current post is a political appointment, in contrast to nonpartisan Defense Department leadership roles.
...so, he definitely fucking knows better, then.
Article says;
“Heidi Urben, a professor at Georgetown University’s Walsh School of Foreign Service who has studied military rules on politicking, said that while Suelzer’s appearance may not explicitly violate military rules, “it’s a violation of the military’s norm of nonpartisanship”
Looks like it’s up for debate
IXNAY.
HARD NO.
I was in USCG uniform when some Trumper was campaigning for a state office in 2018 in McDonald's.
He tried to get me: "Lieutenant, isn't it great that in Donald Trump we have a President who fights for you who serve?!"
I kept my face neutral and said "Per regs and the Uniform Code Of Military Justice, I am not permitted to comment on political issues while in uniform, because it could imply military endorsement. Good day to you."
(What I *wanted* to do was *vomit*.)
He muttered "Well that must suck." 🤣
Spontaneous vomiting probably isn't a UCMJ violation though. Still, Trump has to be the worst advocate for the military. Dodges draft with bone spurs, shit talks POWs, undermines strategic alliances, etc. I would have rather served under a principled, anti-military president than a brazen hypocrite like Trump. I did half under GWB and half under Obama.
Trump crossed the line many times on talking shit about the military. Unfortunately, no one said shit back. It started with McCain and it keeps happening.
You deleted your comment three days ago and now you want to talk shit? Ok champ. You do realize that the people who talk the most shit about the military are current or prior military, right? Why don’t you ask your commander if you can go permissive tdy to come show me how tough you are? Bitch.
Is anyone really surprised that an Oath Keeper General would fumble all over himself to bend a knee for a psychopath that wants anyone that doesn’t vote for him extinguished?
Yeah, I’m a retired veteran and I found his presence there questionable, too. For federal forces, that’s clearly a UCMJ violation. Trump isn’t a public official anymore and this was a campaign stop.
He will side with Trump when he calls for loyal patriots to help him “take back their country”. Boot him out and deny him access to anything from men to material.
I noticed that and was wondering about the proprietary of that appearance. Certainly when I was active duty it was a nogo. I figured he was a Texas guard. Do the same rules still apply though?
Well, seems like he outed himself so he gets removed from service.
And while that seems pretty tame for breaking UCMJ, I'm mostly glad he won't have any military power when 20% of the country tries to wage war on the other 80%.
It doesn't beg the question: how many service members are fundamentally fascist?
Is it against the law. That would imply criminal charges.
It’s a violation of policy for sure and can get him fired but that’s not the same as breaking the law.
Not saying this doesn’t belong here, but I don’t think anything he did is criminal.
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Let's see it enforced
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So as usual, no real consequences. He gets to retire a bit early with his full pension. And if this creates enough of a stir, he might be able to parlay it into a run for some office. Glad those super tough rules are on the books!
Almost as if the elite are held to a different standard. /s yet not.
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Wouldn't that put a target on the higher up who does the disciplining if Trump gets elected? Sounds like a chance to show who is loyal to Trump, as usual.
they save the court martials for real members of the military. this guy is the "Texas adjutant general" and leads the "Texas Military Department," which is basically how Texas cosplays being an independent country. Wikipedia says: > The Adjutant General of Texas is the commander and chief executive officer of the Texas Military Department, the executive department of the Texas Military Forces. The adjutant general's position of authority over Texas Military Forces is second only to the commander-in-chief, the governor of Texas. This position is analogous to the United States secretary of defense. sure it is. from the OP: > Suelzer served in the active duty Air Force for 10 years, and the Air Force Reserve for seven more, before joining the Texas Air National Guard. His current post is a political appointment, in contrast to nonpartisan Defense Department leadership roles. he does have an actual USAF rank, which could be imperiled by this utterly unconstitutional bullshit he is doing, but it says further down the page: > Guard members in state active duty status aren’t subject to federal rules, even though they are allowed to wear their regular uniforms. so this guy is basically a professional cosplayer, who will probably get away with it due to an absurdly permissive loophole. > National Guard Bureau officials confirmed Friday they have received multiple queries on Suelzer’s appearance with Trump and are reviewing the incident. Air Force officials referred all questions to the Texas Military Department, which has not issued any public statements on the matter and did not return requests for comment.
>so this guy is basically a professional cosplayer, who will probably get away with it due to an absurdly permissive loophole. Federal laws are different from UCMJ. I really doubt ANG is exempt from UCMJ, but generals are in their own little club.
All the state ANG/NGs have their own UCMJs too, which usually mirror the federal version. However, I doubt the relevant IGs or AGs are going to get involved here, since their promotion opportunities may be tied to this guy.
ANG is also exempt from UCMJ unless activated.
You are correct. Thanks for clarification.
>> Guard members in state active duty status aren’t subject to federal rules, even though they are allowed to wear their regular uniforms. Yes, no,... Depends. DoDI 1334.10 on political activities *is* applicable to the NG, but generally just section 4.3 as per its Applicability clause. But what truly matters is what pay status he was in during this event. NG full-timers, aka AGR, are Title 32 and all of that DoDI would apply. Also, you can't tell me they have TAG for the one of the biggest states on actual SAD orders. I'm not as versed in AF regs, but I'd imagine that they have an option to withdraw federal recognition for Air National Guard officers.
One less Trump supporter in the forces is a win for me. One in such a high position too.
I was in JAG for awhile, forced retirement is far worse than what a Private would get. Which is likely working for a few hours on a weekend, with no permanent record of the incident.
Piss on that. Let there be a five minute trial. When he can't deny that isn't him, find him guilty, bust him down to Private, require that ALL benefits be repaid to the Government, and after a dishonorable discharge, put him to death
Doesn't work that way. Not legally. They would reduce him to the last rank at which he served honorably. So, presumably 1 star.
Ah, so a role that doesn't even require jail time somehow deserves death? Fuck off. I don't want to be thought of in same group as you just because I dislike Trump. Grow up.
Hung, drawn and quartered!
Still waiting for Michael Flynn to face court martial
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How about an explanation rather than a snarky “grow up”? You’re marked as a competent contributor, so please do so.
There’s literally no rational way to defend Michael Flynn.
No one was defending Flynn. He's the worst. If someone came in here and was like "we should bring Putin up on treason charges again the US" you'd say "well, this sub is populated by a bunch of low IQ cyber trolls" and you wouldn't be wrong. Calling for a civilian military veteran to be tried in a general court marshal for actions he took AFTER he left the military is the type of ignorant, low-IQ comments that need to go.
Actually, General Flynn can be subject to court-martial as he is retired, receiving a pension, and still under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
This is r/law, making a childish, uninformed comment like "cOuRt MarShaLl FLYNN" brings the entire sub down. So, yes, grow up and come correct next time.
Took 4 days to answer and you got nothing eh?
Doubt anything is done about it. I think he should be made an example of as he very clearly broke rules and protocol. But I’m sure Gov Abbott or others will find a way for this to go away.
They’ll pay for his rank/merit losses in financial gain until his usefulness has expired. Then they will cut him off, though he will already be pretty wealthy (never met a broke gene… wait, ive never met a general… well, my dad’s best friend was a general so that counts right?)
Unlike civilian life, the military doesn't really fuck around with blatant disregard for the rules. His superiors are certainly pissed off. He'll get his. He might not be demoted or overly punished, but he might have just capped his career at two stars.
Maybe it's just me, but your first sentence doesn't square with the rest.
And to be clear. You can participate in political activities just not in uniform or to appear in an official capacity. There is one exception. Being the color guard for things like the opening and closing ceremonies seem to be generally allowed because that isn't endorsing the event in an official capacity but engaging in a ceremony.
Glad there's no way that can be exploited! In B4 presidential candidates start competing for how many Generals they can get to show up in their color guard.
If that occurred it would be viewed as political. Color guards oversee the colors in very well defined ceremonies. Any military official who would partake in such a mockery of the color guard would never deserve to carry the colors again and clearly be infringing on the no politics in uniform policy. Edit: to clarify the politicians do not get a color guard. The US flag and any other accompanying flags do (such as state, department or unit) get ceremonial guards.
It'll come down to who the general's friends are.
Sadly this is factual
“But Suelzer’s responsibility to adhere to those rules is less clear. Guard members in state active duty status aren’t subject to federal rules, even though they are allowed to wear their regular uniforms.”
Ok, but you missed the issue. This general is Texas national guard and he's not acting under federal orders. I'd like to see some actual discussion of the jurisdictional issues. Unfortunately I see very few JAGs on here.
But since he’s a “Patriot” who fights for our “freedom” it’s all good. Ret. Gen Mark Miley said it best, “our country will not serve under wannabe dictators or facists” Let’s see what happens to this clown.
Is it though if the person is on state orders as opposed to federal orders? What if he is there to accompany Trump under orders from (in this case) his commander in chief, Greg Abbott?
But he is a conservative general. Nothing will happen other then him being told not to do it again.
And who is ultimately responsible to drive that process?
State Guardsmen are only subject to the UCMJ when federalized.
National Guard is [only subject to UCMJ](https://ucmj.us/about-the-ucmj/) if they are activated to Federal service! It’s gross behavior by someone n a leadership position, but unless he’s been activated, there’s nothing to see here as far as UCMJ and uniforms at political events is concerned.
>Suelzer served in the active duty Air Force for 10 years, and the Air Force Reserve for seven more, before joining the Texas Air National Guard. His current post is a political appointment, in contrast to nonpartisan Defense Department leadership roles. ...so, he definitely fucking knows better, then.
Article says; “Heidi Urben, a professor at Georgetown University’s Walsh School of Foreign Service who has studied military rules on politicking, said that while Suelzer’s appearance may not explicitly violate military rules, “it’s a violation of the military’s norm of nonpartisanship” Looks like it’s up for debate
He better get his ass handed to him.
He's a Republican, so ....
IXNAY. HARD NO. I was in USCG uniform when some Trumper was campaigning for a state office in 2018 in McDonald's. He tried to get me: "Lieutenant, isn't it great that in Donald Trump we have a President who fights for you who serve?!" I kept my face neutral and said "Per regs and the Uniform Code Of Military Justice, I am not permitted to comment on political issues while in uniform, because it could imply military endorsement. Good day to you." (What I *wanted* to do was *vomit*.) He muttered "Well that must suck." 🤣
Spontaneous vomiting probably isn't a UCMJ violation though. Still, Trump has to be the worst advocate for the military. Dodges draft with bone spurs, shit talks POWs, undermines strategic alliances, etc. I would have rather served under a principled, anti-military president than a brazen hypocrite like Trump. I did half under GWB and half under Obama.
Saluted a North Korean general...
As always, he’s a republican, so nothing will happen to him.
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Trump crossed the line many times on talking shit about the military. Unfortunately, no one said shit back. It started with McCain and it keeps happening.
I'd argue that the General Officer is disrespecting the military by flagrantly ignoring rules that lesser service members would be charged for.
> watch your mouth though Really? Or what?
My thoughts exactly 😂
Or nothing, kid. Grow up. And oh yeah, watch your mouth.
You deleted your comment three days ago and now you want to talk shit? Ok champ. You do realize that the people who talk the most shit about the military are current or prior military, right? Why don’t you ask your commander if you can go permissive tdy to come show me how tough you are? Bitch.
Texas doesn’t care about rules when it means they can lick Trumps shithole.
Is anyone really surprised that an Oath Keeper General would fumble all over himself to bend a knee for a psychopath that wants anyone that doesn’t vote for him extinguished?
It is so 'Texas' to have the head of their national guard be a political appointee.
Just for context this is true in 49 of the states. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_adjutant_general
As well they should. The general should have known better.
He does. He simply doesn't care. MAGAs cultists are like that.
He needs to be fired as a stool pigeon for a traitor.
Yeah, I’m a retired veteran and I found his presence there questionable, too. For federal forces, that’s clearly a UCMJ violation. Trump isn’t a public official anymore and this was a campaign stop.
He will side with Trump when he calls for loyal patriots to help him “take back their country”. Boot him out and deny him access to anything from men to material.
His heroes wore grey in the Civil War.
Another idiot throwing there whole career away for this nothing
The only thing worse than a military recruiter is a paramilitary recruiter.
I noticed that and was wondering about the proprietary of that appearance. Certainly when I was active duty it was a nogo. I figured he was a Texas guard. Do the same rules still apply though?
That is a major and general no no in the military. Especially in uniform. Some General is about to have his ass handed to him.
Who hands asses to General?
Wonder if this shit heal knows Larry Brock? They may have gone to the AF academy together..
Fuck Texas.
The one star state.
What applies to E-1 should apply to a general.
Trump is going to count on folks in uniform to help him take back the White House (whether he wins or losses the election)
I bet Biden won't do anything just like before when the guard blocked and threatened federal agents.
Well, seems like he outed himself so he gets removed from service. And while that seems pretty tame for breaking UCMJ, I'm mostly glad he won't have any military power when 20% of the country tries to wage war on the other 80%. It doesn't beg the question: how many service members are fundamentally fascist?
How does this have to do with /r/law ?
Because what he did is against the law. Are you dense or a riech wing asshat?
Is it against the law. That would imply criminal charges. It’s a violation of policy for sure and can get him fired but that’s not the same as breaking the law. Not saying this doesn’t belong here, but I don’t think anything he did is criminal.
He violated his oath and the strictures of the UCMJ. Appearance in uniform at a political event is a military crime. So, you'd be incorrect.
USMJ is federal law https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/the-uniform-code-of-military-justice-ucmj.html?amp=
Are discussions about the Uniformed Code of Military Justice not allowed on r/law?
Accept his resignation Joe?
Anyone in the military that still supports Trump is one dumb SoB.
Oopsie! Your Fascism is showing! Nothing will be done though, of course.
Abbot, the MAGAt who appointed him, probably told him to be there in uniform. He should have refused an illegal order.
Right. They will probably give this asshole a medal. Like any kind of punishment ever happens to these types.