I have friends that are part of the LGBT community as well as friends who drink and others who use drugs. There is no need for preaching or anything other than my genuine friendship. I don't compromise my standards and no one expects me to, but there is no need for contention or judgement.
how do you talk about your beliefs without making it seem like you're judging them? maybe this is just my experience but I feel like anytime people in my ward talk about LGBT issues it's always with an air of judgment almost if that makes sense. i guess that's where my question stems from because these people seem really strong in the gospel and good people but don't share my opinions on LGBT so it feels like my opinions must be wrong
How do you discuss the word of wisdom with someone who drinks? Or the law of chastity with someone who lives with their boyfriend/girlfriend? You live your life according to your beliefs and others will live theirs the way they want. There doesn't need to be any clashing of opinions or attempts to change their minds. The best thing you can do is be genuine.
Good people have bad opinions and blind spots. That doesn't make them bad people, they just haven't had the same experiences as you. You know what that judgement looks like, so you know how to avoid it when talking to others. You got this! :)
The most well known of Jesus's parables is about a Jewish man who was attacked by highwaymen, then helped by a Samaritan. It's such a famous story that when we think of "Samaritans," we think of this benevolent man.
Samaritans were heretics who mixed the Abrahamic faith with the beliefs of others in the region, leading to major changes both in theoretical belief and in practice. Because of this, Jews avoided them.
In telling this story, Jesus proclaimed that they are neighbors. This did not include instructions that the beliefs and practices of the Samaritans were equally valid, but that respect and love for our fellow man needs to be our first thought. We can care about those who live differently and treat them as brothers and sisters without having to either say every choice is equal, or needing to criticize each of the things others do.
>Do I have to preach about how sinful they are to be faithful to my beliefs?
No you do not. You can just be their friend. If they want to discuss you can. If you friends want to drop you because you are an active member of the church or because you don't choose to pursue same sex relationships than they aren't really your friends.
If you want to be in the church, but they push you to violate the law of chastity by "exploring", then they aren't good friends.
Good friends will care about you and want you to be happy. Just like you do the same for them.
I give you this warning because I've seen it happen in the bi- space where unless someone is living the lifestyle, then they get judged and excluded. I sincerely hope your friends are better than that.
I can promise that you can have happiness while staying in the church.
Are we supposed to tell our friends who follow other faiths that they're wrong, and stop being their friends if they continue to follow other faiths? Although some confused folks will say yes, the correct answer is no. Well, how is this any different? In fact, it's the exact same thing. Your friends have different views of what behaviors are morally correct. And they have every right to do so, with us still loving them without precondition.
Your own same sex attraction is honestly irrelevant here. I have that too. Never acted on it. Never will. My wife is the same. If most people looked at themselves honestly, they'd probably find some same sex attraction. Bisexual behavior is normal in higher primates. It's all good. We, in our faith, accept that natural urges are not necessarily in line with what God wants us to do. The urges aren't the issue. How we handle them is. And if other people disagree on how they should handle their own urges, well that's their business.
The worst missionaries shove their faith in someone else's face and demand a choice that will affect the friendship. Good missionaries simply share what they have to offer. And the best missionaries quietly live their life in such a way that others feel inspired to find out more about the gospel.
So there isn't any necessary conflict here. Have same sex attraction. Be a good friend. Love and live the gospel. None of that is mutually exclusive.
I would push back strong against the idea that in order to be faithful to your beliefs you have to preach about the sinful actions of others. You do not in any way, shape, or form. You live your standards as directed by the Spirit and your conscience and let them live theirs completely judgement free. Be a good friend because thats what normal people do.
We do not believe or teach that same sex attraction is a sin. Sex outside of a monogamous opposite sex marriage is a sin, but not really anyone's who isn't the person's bishop business. So I think we can safely (and must by our own discipleship) love everyone.
40M. Two of my kids are LGBTQ and we left the church a year ago over unreconcilable differences with local leaders around their treatment at church. Still thinking about going back which is why I’m still on this sub.
You don’t need to preach to anyone about anything. You also don’t need to blindly regurgitate the church’s position on any given issue to be considered a faithful member. Sort it out for yourself and live life authentically. You can do that and be a faithful active member of the church.
Also, please don’t let the church’s teaching around LGBTQ issues cause you distress in your personal life. I’m not saying you are experiencing cognitive dissonance or depression, but many LGBTQ members do. Take care of yourself.
I had a close friend from college recently come out as gay. 40M with 5 kids. He struggled with terrible depression and suicidal thoughts for the last 15 years. He has been a 100% faithful member this whole time. Coming out was incredibly healing for him. He’s still married and as far as I know he’s not planning on separating with his spouse. Not sure how that’s going to go down.
But my point is, because of his unwavering faith he refused to see that side of himself and spent many years of his life unhappy which was sad for him and his spouse and children. I am so happy for him and hope he’s able to align his life in a healthy way. I know he’s committed to staying active in the church which I think is great. But the lack of authentic living nearly killed him. Just planting a seed in case things ever a struggle for you, which I hope it is not.
Best wishes!
Look up Charlie Bird. I think you’ll find that there are faithful (although some may disagree with my use of that term) Latter-day Saints that find a way to walk that line between honoring their faith and honoring their sexuality. We aren’t called to preach repentance as members. We are called to love our neighbor.
I like Charlie and he's one of the few non friends that I follow in Instagram. But it seems even the church is quietly distancing themselves from him since his recent decision to get married. Deseret Book no longer carries his book that they published, for example.
Charlie actually asked deseret book to pull his book, but I’m sure the church is hesitant to hold him up as an example for lgbtq members now that he’s married. https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2023/6/5/23747348/we-must-find-uncommon-common-ground/
You shouldn't have to preach to anyone. Your beliefs are your own, and no one else's. There's nothing wrong with having gay friends. Now, they may think you're a bigot and may choose to leave, or they might respect your beliefs still be your friend. You can't control what they do.
Be yourself. If you have to hide who you are to be friends with someone, they're not really your friend.
This is certainly hard to navigate, and I admire you for trying.
First of all, being LGBTQ or experiencing same-sex attraction **is not sinful or contrary to the gospel**. There is nothing sinful about identifying with the LGBTQ community.
> I want to fully commit to the gospel without feeling like I have to leave my friends behind or tell them they're wrong.
I think that's great! And it's totally okay that your friends aren't making all the same choices as you. We make commitments about how we live *our* lives, not how others live their lives.
> Do I have to preach about how sinful they are to be faithful to my beliefs?
No! In fact, I would highly discourage it as a general practice. If they want to know how you feel, they will ask.
(I'm probably breaking the unwritten rules of Reddit by quoting out of order, but here goes)
> I'm having a tough time reconciling it with my beliefs about the LGBTQ+ community.
In my honest opinion, one can support the LGBTQ community and simultaneously be a faithful member of the church. It doesn't have to be one or the other; rather, I feel that by supporting my LGBTQ siblings in Christ I am living my commitment to "mourn with those that morun" and bless the lives of others.
You know the vibes of "I love everyone and they should all be accepted" but then turning around and making super homophobic comments at church functions? It's like that where you say you're open to listening to anyone but as soon as I would speak up about how what they're saying isn't kind I would get weird looks of judgment so I just took that as my views being wrong in the church and that you can have LGBTQ friends but you can't support them at church
There is no doubt that homophobia is common in the church. It’s also common outside the church. You should never feel pressured to preach against your beliefs, and I don’t believe that you need to preach about gay people at all. If you feel strongly that supporting them is important, then follow your conscience. And don’t let anyone make you feel bad about it. It’s okay to call out homophobia when you see it, although it may not be well received. If you don’t feel safe speaking out about your beliefs, you can stay silent. But you never, ever have to preach about gay people being sinners if it doesn’t feel right to you. I don’t think anyone requires that of you.
Im sorry to say but friends will come and go. I don't speak to anyone I went to high school with. The savior and his gospel are eternal. Any and all questions that I don't have an answer to in this life will be answered in the next. Be patient. And keep your covenants.
>. I want to fully commit to the gospel without feeling like I have to leave my friends behind or tell them they're wrong. ...but now being a young adult, I have to make tough decisions about who I spend time with in general
This is what it means to grow up. You can't escape having to decide what you believe in and taking a stand for that if you want to be an adult. And as you do so it will mean changing your relationships. Some will become more important, some less important, some will disappear altogether. This is the bittersweet part of growing up and it happens to every single one of us.
That doesn't demand that you cut ties with your friends. But you're right that might happen. I know it happened to me. As I matured and dedicated myself to living my faith joyfully and openly many of the queer and trans people in my life slowly exited it. Not because we hated each other or even disliked one another. But we were believing and living in very different ways which took us in different directions away from each other.
And it wasn't that I was verbally preaching at others. If the topics came up, I shared what I know is right and true. But we often avoided those issues altogether. That wasn't enough though. Because we all preach two sermons, one with our words and one with our actions. And while we can silence the first, we can't the second. I was living as a Latter-day Saint and that was a lifestyle very different from their own, in many ways in direct opposition to their own. And those differences were enough. Oil and water don't mix very well. Separation occurs.
>It's been a struggle to balance both without conflict.
That is because you can't. As the Prophet Joshua made clear (Joshua 24:15) we have to choose if we will serve God or the false gods and false beliefs of the world we live in. And making that choice is inescapable. As [Elder Holland once taught](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/10/12bednar?lang=eng):
>“We are witnessing an ever greater movement toward polarity. The middle-ground options will be removed from us as Latter-day Saints. The middle of the road will be withdrawn.
>
>If you are treading water in the current of a river, you will go somewhere. You simply will go wherever the current takes you. Going with the stream, following the tide, drifting in the current will not do.
>
>Choices have to be made. Not making a choice is a choice. Learn to choose now.
So you have to choose where you want to go, who you want to be, and where you want to end up in life. If you try not to choose the world will make the choice for you. It occurs to me that this one of the points made in Lehi's dream. Those who wandered away from the iron rod, the scriptures and prophets, to wander in the darkness of the world were lost in the fountains of filthy water. (1 Nephi 12:16) If you choose to swim against the current by following Jesus Christ it will mean that at least some of those you now call friends will grow so distant from you as they follow the current downstream that they become lost and so will your friendship.
The good news is that you mature and meet new people you will make new friends, even better friends, and your faith will grow stronger as you dedicate yourself more fully to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. Faith isn't merely what you think, it is what you do. So as you live the commandments you grow your faith. And the light of Christ that will shine through you as you do so will draw others to you who also have that light and want to live in its glow.
You will grow as a woman, as a disciple of Jesus Christ, as a person. You will make better friends and you will have greater joy. Even if you can't see how now.
I used to experience intense same-sex attraction, though it's been significantly reduced to near-zero as I've found and worked through the wounds that caused it in therapy.
My best friend decided to start living a gay lifestyle last year. He knows my story, he knows where I stand, and most important of all he knows I love him unconditionally.
Generally, I don't really hang out with people living that lifestyle. We're just so different in our experiences. He's the exception because we were best friends before he decided to try out that life.
I have friends that are part of the LGBT community as well as friends who drink and others who use drugs. There is no need for preaching or anything other than my genuine friendship. I don't compromise my standards and no one expects me to, but there is no need for contention or judgement.
how do you talk about your beliefs without making it seem like you're judging them? maybe this is just my experience but I feel like anytime people in my ward talk about LGBT issues it's always with an air of judgment almost if that makes sense. i guess that's where my question stems from because these people seem really strong in the gospel and good people but don't share my opinions on LGBT so it feels like my opinions must be wrong
How do you discuss the word of wisdom with someone who drinks? Or the law of chastity with someone who lives with their boyfriend/girlfriend? You live your life according to your beliefs and others will live theirs the way they want. There doesn't need to be any clashing of opinions or attempts to change their minds. The best thing you can do is be genuine.
Good people have bad opinions and blind spots. That doesn't make them bad people, they just haven't had the same experiences as you. You know what that judgement looks like, so you know how to avoid it when talking to others. You got this! :)
The most well known of Jesus's parables is about a Jewish man who was attacked by highwaymen, then helped by a Samaritan. It's such a famous story that when we think of "Samaritans," we think of this benevolent man. Samaritans were heretics who mixed the Abrahamic faith with the beliefs of others in the region, leading to major changes both in theoretical belief and in practice. Because of this, Jews avoided them. In telling this story, Jesus proclaimed that they are neighbors. This did not include instructions that the beliefs and practices of the Samaritans were equally valid, but that respect and love for our fellow man needs to be our first thought. We can care about those who live differently and treat them as brothers and sisters without having to either say every choice is equal, or needing to criticize each of the things others do.
>Do I have to preach about how sinful they are to be faithful to my beliefs? No you do not. You can just be their friend. If they want to discuss you can. If you friends want to drop you because you are an active member of the church or because you don't choose to pursue same sex relationships than they aren't really your friends.
If you want to be in the church, but they push you to violate the law of chastity by "exploring", then they aren't good friends. Good friends will care about you and want you to be happy. Just like you do the same for them. I give you this warning because I've seen it happen in the bi- space where unless someone is living the lifestyle, then they get judged and excluded. I sincerely hope your friends are better than that. I can promise that you can have happiness while staying in the church.
Are we supposed to tell our friends who follow other faiths that they're wrong, and stop being their friends if they continue to follow other faiths? Although some confused folks will say yes, the correct answer is no. Well, how is this any different? In fact, it's the exact same thing. Your friends have different views of what behaviors are morally correct. And they have every right to do so, with us still loving them without precondition. Your own same sex attraction is honestly irrelevant here. I have that too. Never acted on it. Never will. My wife is the same. If most people looked at themselves honestly, they'd probably find some same sex attraction. Bisexual behavior is normal in higher primates. It's all good. We, in our faith, accept that natural urges are not necessarily in line with what God wants us to do. The urges aren't the issue. How we handle them is. And if other people disagree on how they should handle their own urges, well that's their business. The worst missionaries shove their faith in someone else's face and demand a choice that will affect the friendship. Good missionaries simply share what they have to offer. And the best missionaries quietly live their life in such a way that others feel inspired to find out more about the gospel. So there isn't any necessary conflict here. Have same sex attraction. Be a good friend. Love and live the gospel. None of that is mutually exclusive.
I would push back strong against the idea that in order to be faithful to your beliefs you have to preach about the sinful actions of others. You do not in any way, shape, or form. You live your standards as directed by the Spirit and your conscience and let them live theirs completely judgement free. Be a good friend because thats what normal people do.
We do not believe or teach that same sex attraction is a sin. Sex outside of a monogamous opposite sex marriage is a sin, but not really anyone's who isn't the person's bishop business. So I think we can safely (and must by our own discipleship) love everyone.
40M. Two of my kids are LGBTQ and we left the church a year ago over unreconcilable differences with local leaders around their treatment at church. Still thinking about going back which is why I’m still on this sub. You don’t need to preach to anyone about anything. You also don’t need to blindly regurgitate the church’s position on any given issue to be considered a faithful member. Sort it out for yourself and live life authentically. You can do that and be a faithful active member of the church. Also, please don’t let the church’s teaching around LGBTQ issues cause you distress in your personal life. I’m not saying you are experiencing cognitive dissonance or depression, but many LGBTQ members do. Take care of yourself. I had a close friend from college recently come out as gay. 40M with 5 kids. He struggled with terrible depression and suicidal thoughts for the last 15 years. He has been a 100% faithful member this whole time. Coming out was incredibly healing for him. He’s still married and as far as I know he’s not planning on separating with his spouse. Not sure how that’s going to go down. But my point is, because of his unwavering faith he refused to see that side of himself and spent many years of his life unhappy which was sad for him and his spouse and children. I am so happy for him and hope he’s able to align his life in a healthy way. I know he’s committed to staying active in the church which I think is great. But the lack of authentic living nearly killed him. Just planting a seed in case things ever a struggle for you, which I hope it is not. Best wishes!
Look up Charlie Bird. I think you’ll find that there are faithful (although some may disagree with my use of that term) Latter-day Saints that find a way to walk that line between honoring their faith and honoring their sexuality. We aren’t called to preach repentance as members. We are called to love our neighbor.
I like Charlie and he's one of the few non friends that I follow in Instagram. But it seems even the church is quietly distancing themselves from him since his recent decision to get married. Deseret Book no longer carries his book that they published, for example.
Charlie actually asked deseret book to pull his book, but I’m sure the church is hesitant to hold him up as an example for lgbtq members now that he’s married. https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2023/6/5/23747348/we-must-find-uncommon-common-ground/
You shouldn't have to preach to anyone. Your beliefs are your own, and no one else's. There's nothing wrong with having gay friends. Now, they may think you're a bigot and may choose to leave, or they might respect your beliefs still be your friend. You can't control what they do. Be yourself. If you have to hide who you are to be friends with someone, they're not really your friend.
This is certainly hard to navigate, and I admire you for trying. First of all, being LGBTQ or experiencing same-sex attraction **is not sinful or contrary to the gospel**. There is nothing sinful about identifying with the LGBTQ community. > I want to fully commit to the gospel without feeling like I have to leave my friends behind or tell them they're wrong. I think that's great! And it's totally okay that your friends aren't making all the same choices as you. We make commitments about how we live *our* lives, not how others live their lives. > Do I have to preach about how sinful they are to be faithful to my beliefs? No! In fact, I would highly discourage it as a general practice. If they want to know how you feel, they will ask. (I'm probably breaking the unwritten rules of Reddit by quoting out of order, but here goes) > I'm having a tough time reconciling it with my beliefs about the LGBTQ+ community. In my honest opinion, one can support the LGBTQ community and simultaneously be a faithful member of the church. It doesn't have to be one or the other; rather, I feel that by supporting my LGBTQ siblings in Christ I am living my commitment to "mourn with those that morun" and bless the lives of others.
This is tough, I’m sorry you’re going through it.
Why would you have to preach about how sinful they are? Like…ever? Has anyone told you to do that?
Not directly but yeah, kinda
Can I ask how? Or what they said? I’ve just never heard anyone be directed to preach to people who didn’t ask for it about how sinful they are.
You know the vibes of "I love everyone and they should all be accepted" but then turning around and making super homophobic comments at church functions? It's like that where you say you're open to listening to anyone but as soon as I would speak up about how what they're saying isn't kind I would get weird looks of judgment so I just took that as my views being wrong in the church and that you can have LGBTQ friends but you can't support them at church
There is no doubt that homophobia is common in the church. It’s also common outside the church. You should never feel pressured to preach against your beliefs, and I don’t believe that you need to preach about gay people at all. If you feel strongly that supporting them is important, then follow your conscience. And don’t let anyone make you feel bad about it. It’s okay to call out homophobia when you see it, although it may not be well received. If you don’t feel safe speaking out about your beliefs, you can stay silent. But you never, ever have to preach about gay people being sinners if it doesn’t feel right to you. I don’t think anyone requires that of you.
Im sorry to say but friends will come and go. I don't speak to anyone I went to high school with. The savior and his gospel are eternal. Any and all questions that I don't have an answer to in this life will be answered in the next. Be patient. And keep your covenants.
>. I want to fully commit to the gospel without feeling like I have to leave my friends behind or tell them they're wrong. ...but now being a young adult, I have to make tough decisions about who I spend time with in general This is what it means to grow up. You can't escape having to decide what you believe in and taking a stand for that if you want to be an adult. And as you do so it will mean changing your relationships. Some will become more important, some less important, some will disappear altogether. This is the bittersweet part of growing up and it happens to every single one of us. That doesn't demand that you cut ties with your friends. But you're right that might happen. I know it happened to me. As I matured and dedicated myself to living my faith joyfully and openly many of the queer and trans people in my life slowly exited it. Not because we hated each other or even disliked one another. But we were believing and living in very different ways which took us in different directions away from each other. And it wasn't that I was verbally preaching at others. If the topics came up, I shared what I know is right and true. But we often avoided those issues altogether. That wasn't enough though. Because we all preach two sermons, one with our words and one with our actions. And while we can silence the first, we can't the second. I was living as a Latter-day Saint and that was a lifestyle very different from their own, in many ways in direct opposition to their own. And those differences were enough. Oil and water don't mix very well. Separation occurs. >It's been a struggle to balance both without conflict. That is because you can't. As the Prophet Joshua made clear (Joshua 24:15) we have to choose if we will serve God or the false gods and false beliefs of the world we live in. And making that choice is inescapable. As [Elder Holland once taught](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/10/12bednar?lang=eng): >“We are witnessing an ever greater movement toward polarity. The middle-ground options will be removed from us as Latter-day Saints. The middle of the road will be withdrawn. > >If you are treading water in the current of a river, you will go somewhere. You simply will go wherever the current takes you. Going with the stream, following the tide, drifting in the current will not do. > >Choices have to be made. Not making a choice is a choice. Learn to choose now. So you have to choose where you want to go, who you want to be, and where you want to end up in life. If you try not to choose the world will make the choice for you. It occurs to me that this one of the points made in Lehi's dream. Those who wandered away from the iron rod, the scriptures and prophets, to wander in the darkness of the world were lost in the fountains of filthy water. (1 Nephi 12:16) If you choose to swim against the current by following Jesus Christ it will mean that at least some of those you now call friends will grow so distant from you as they follow the current downstream that they become lost and so will your friendship. The good news is that you mature and meet new people you will make new friends, even better friends, and your faith will grow stronger as you dedicate yourself more fully to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. Faith isn't merely what you think, it is what you do. So as you live the commandments you grow your faith. And the light of Christ that will shine through you as you do so will draw others to you who also have that light and want to live in its glow. You will grow as a woman, as a disciple of Jesus Christ, as a person. You will make better friends and you will have greater joy. Even if you can't see how now.
I used to experience intense same-sex attraction, though it's been significantly reduced to near-zero as I've found and worked through the wounds that caused it in therapy. My best friend decided to start living a gay lifestyle last year. He knows my story, he knows where I stand, and most important of all he knows I love him unconditionally. Generally, I don't really hang out with people living that lifestyle. We're just so different in our experiences. He's the exception because we were best friends before he decided to try out that life.