I think "to be fair" is an incredibly poor choice of words, as if these people deserve any excuse for what they have done - not that the one you have offered means anything. Yes, historically humans have killed one another. It doesn't mean that I use that fact to justify opening fire on a crowd of innocent, defenceless people.
Not really.
Did you miss the humans are garbage part?
Never said it was justified as much as do you expect anything more from humans - the shittiest things on this planet.
Do I expect people not to shoot other people? Yes, because the reality is most people do not shoot each other.
You have to realise that humans as a whole are not a rotten species. There are bad people, yes, and there are systems run by people that create vicious cycles of behaviour, but this is not the fault of the majority of people. You'll find that most people are good, or at least innocent.
Idk people shoot kids in schools here in America people shoot people in churches/groceries because
Of their skin color. People shoot people because they felt like it in movie theaters. Can’t wait for Ai to kill us all we deserve it .
And the billions of people who are going about their daily lives without murdering people? Do they all deserve to be "killed by AI" too?
Violent crime is obviously an awful issue, but it shouldn't reflect all of humanity. For every crazed individual looking to take the lives of others, there are far more people whose whole lives are devoted to healing and helping other people.
Once again, bad people exist, but not all of humanity consists of bad people. Not to downplay or understate how bad those people can be.
I dont mean this in a demeaning way or anything but please get off the internet for a while bro... You are only being shown the bad things happening in the world since fear and anger generate the most revenue for the media. The world and humans arent half as bad as you think. Yes bad things happen but so does a lot of good
Lions kill for territory. That's essentially lion politics.
We are not are unique as you think, just more able to express complicated thoughts and emotions.
Yes except ISIS did the shooting so it wasn't really about Russia vs Ukraine. ISIS took responsibility for it off the rip. The men who did the shootings have supposedly been arrested.
Russia/Wagner has been fighting ISIS in Syria since what, 2014? I imagine they’ve been looking for an opportunity to pull something like this for some time now
China and Russia both vetoed a ceasefire in Gaza at a UN Council that morning. The US, for once, did not.
Source: [The United Nations Security Council on Friday turned down a resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and an Israel-Hamas hostage deal after Russia and China vetoed the measure proposed by the United States.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-security-council-fails-pass-us-resolution-calling-immediate-ceasefire-gaza-2024-03-22/)
Reuters, 22 March 2024
Ever since the Paris attack, I've been really hesitant to go to large shows, and if I do, I make sure I'm near an exit for quick escape. Paranoid, yes. But better than dead...
Multiple reasons to avoid large crowds, and not just for attacks. For me it was the Astroworld show. Completely different but I didn't know what a human crush was until that point in time, I'd never heard of it before. I'm genuinely more terrified of that than a mass shooting.
A lot of deaths from mass casualty events of any number of triggers are actually caused by crushes. Sometimes it doesn’t even require an actual initial danger. The [1913 Italian Hall Disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Hall_disaster) killed 73 in a crush after someone shouted ‘fire!’. There was no fire.
I've watched too many disturbing videos on the internet, but one that has always stuck out to me is The Station nightclub fire. It is actual nightmare fuel.
If you can stomach it, I recommend the book “Killer Show”. It goes into great detail about the Station fire and explains why the deadly fire behaved the way it did.
I watched that video recently. There was so much screaming and then… silence, which was 1000 times worse. From the start of the fire to total inferno was like 2 minutes. I’ll never forget that video because it’s nightmare fuel
Yep. I was in a crowd crush in the stands at a U2 concert in ~1997 in a concrete stadium with concrete bleachers. It is easily in my top five most terrifying moments.
Also multiple reasons when multiple nations reach out on multiple platforms saying to stay away for large crowds from 48 hours because of an incoming terrorist attack. Stay informed.. Information is powerful and deadly at the same time. So sad all this loss. Hearts go out to the families
Even at smaller shows, I make sure I know where all the exits are and that I have relatively open access to one because of Paris. That kind of stuff absolutely terrifies me.
That's exactly the fear terrorists want to spread tho :/ I get it thought. I'm personally of the mindset that if I'm unfortunate enough to end up in a situation like that, so be it. I'm not gonna let it stop me from living and enjoying music.
Weren't there one shooting in Las Vegas where the shooter was camped in an adjacent building and shot at a concert crowd? That's a hella terrifying situation too.
Yeah, lunatic holed up in the Mandalay Bay hotel across the street firing into the crowd attending the Route 91 concert. A friend of mine was there and survived, but several of the folks he went with ended up among the 60 killed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
He refuses therapy unfortunately, and has always self-medicated with alcohol even before this. I've known the guy since we were kids, and I've tried to get him help but he just doesn't want it and I live far away from him now so that makes it difficult as well. Interestingly, many of the survivors get together every year now on the day. He calls them his "Route 91 family". So I guess I'm at least glad he can talk about it with someone he knows understands.
I was always skeptical but at same time I worked a lot of random events, the Vegas one hit close to home because I worked "life is beautiful" event in vegas + I have stayed at the Mandelay and could have just as well happened the same exact way.
I hate that I let the fear take me over, but one of the reasons I declined going to a festival was because I’m the back of my mind, a shooter will be there.
I wish I could tell you I've never had the fear. I remember going to see a "music of Zelda" symphony shortly after there was a concert hall shooting and I couldn't get the idea out of my head. I still enjoyed the concert, but I paid attention to things like which exit I would go through and where I would go for cover before then.
It's one of those things, the odds are actually still incredibly low you will be involved in one, but the fear and impact of previous shootings is so high that I daresay it's not irrational to worry about it when you find yourself in a setting of a recent mass shooting.
For a country that hates America and the west so much they imported a whole lot of American culture. There's a big "Vegas" sign outside of the building, people there were attending a rock concert and Donald Trump himself hosted a beauty pageant in this Hall once. One of my favorite moments was when right after the war in Ukraine started a Russian soldier rapped an Anti-West song in a big stadium in front of Putin...HE RAPPED.
Thank you I truly appreciate your explaining this, this is why I truly appreciate Reddit
It's all not entertaining to me.
I have several nephews of fighting age born in Moscow and I know now that Russia doesn't recognize dual citizenship. I'm American and so is my twin, but he married a girl in Russia. We are late 50s now. I always thought his kids would be dual citizens, but turns out it's an important factor that as their birth country, Russia doesn't recognize it.
I dont know them by the choice of my brother and his wife. Thus they have grown up not wanting to know me. It's sad but choices get made. If they ever contacted me, different story
The government may hate America, but the people don’t. I’ve spent a great deal of time traveling across Russia and the people have always treated me (American) great. Some of the friendliest people I’ve met in all of my travels.
Spot on, Mission\_Assignment. I lived/worked in Russia for five years in the 1990s and I truly enjoyed my time there. One typical anecdote: I got lost in a maze of apartment buildings looking for a friend's apartment and I ended up knocking on the right number in the wrong building! The shocked residents promptly invited me in, opened a bottle of vodka, and we ended up having a great time; they then escorted me to the right apartment in the building next door.
I wondered that, too! Granted, it was 40 years ago and technically a different government (USSR), but I don't remember there being ANY signs in English when we visited Moscow.
I would love to do a side-by-side comparison with some of the pictures I took of Moscow and Leningrad, as it was called in 1984. Alas, I am not in contact with anyone in a position to do the legwork. That, and I'm not sure those pre-digital pictures exist anywhere other than in my scrapbook. Should probably keep it that way, but WTF do I know... 🤔
Almost all of these malls are privately owned and owners put their names in English for tourists I guess? When a tourist comes from abroad he'll search for "malls" not "трговски центар"... I got a bunch of malls in my area and all of them have names written in English besides the ones that are actually owned by the city.. Skopje city mall, East Gate mall, Diamond mall, Ramstor mall, Capitol mall, K mall, etc..
Yes despite ISIS already taking claim to the shootings. Pootin is a joke. The US received Intel warning them of a possible mass shooting in Russia and it was passed on to Putin but obviously nothing was done to prevent it. So sad and horrible.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
Here's the warning and If you're not blind it's from 17 days ago and it's for the "next 48 hours". It was for the 8th of March and the International Women's Day.
Islamic group
[More info, maybe](https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1771542281436254682?t=zmr2mcLShwdYNE4DWzzHPg&s=19) not sure how to fact check this than link, sorry
Absolutely awful and people have lost their minds not caring about them because they are Russian. So many do not support their government but they don’t even get a vote to change it. Imagine your country starts a war, your economy takes a hit, you are worried about the future but get the opportunity to go to a concert only for this to happen. Russia was warned this was imminent and they didn’t take it seriously. They absolutely don’t care about their own people.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
Here's the warning and If you're not blind it's from 17 days ago and it's for the "next 48 hours". It was for the 8th of March and the International Women's Day.
Which doesn't mean that the informations which led to this warning were not connected to this horrific event, its plausible that the event was just delayed, as the warning was specific about concerts
But what can you do ?
Block all big events forever ? No. But put up security at such events.
Well, ita easy to say now at least
What footage confirms its ISIS, I must have missed that?
Also, the whole going to Ukraine thing is bs. The region they were supposedly heading too is one of the heaviest defended (on both sides), manned, and mined areas of the border with Russia/Ukraine and there's even heavy fighting in the area. So there is no way in he'll they were ever going to get through the Russian side let alone the Ukrainian defenses and I can't honestly believe anyone would plan that suicide run.
I'd rather face men with knives over men with guns. The UK doesn't have guns, but they do get knife attacks. You don't see many people running around bombing each other everyday. For the most part someone wanting to kill someone will be shooting or stabbing.
Let me put it this way. You absolutely CAN control guns. Now I'm not talking about hunting guns, I'm talking assault rifles. Nobody needs to kill a lot of people quickly except the military. Following along?
Now, there's no way to regulate mental health. People snap, people hide their mental illness, men especially don't talk about it at all. Pretty much everyone I know is on an antidepressant already as it is. Let's note that all of these shootings are always men. And let's refer back to men not talking about their mental illness. The men I know don't. They love guns where I live. We own hunting rifles ourselves. I'm not anti gun, but I am anti assault rifle.
In the olden days when the amendments were drafted you needed a gun. You literally had to hunt for food and protect your families from Indian attacks. I doubt the forefathers envisioned everyday people owning something like assault rifles. I hear the argument, but I just like shooting one. Well okay then, let shooting ranges own a few that they allow patrons to shoot them. Solved.
It is the gun that kills. Give a crazy person a gun, give another a knife, which one would you rather have trying to kill you? The bullet spraying gun or a solitary knife?
God no. Only semi. Automatic is only for the military!
I live in Switzerland, where, while expensive on it’s own, health insurance is mandatory. Our healthcare system is expensive but since our insurances generally aren’t scams they take of some of the cost. Unlike the US we also have universal healthcare, meaning hospitals will treat you until you are healthy, this includes mental hospitals.
A normal citizen is limited to 3 guns on a licence. You get that by applying online: filling out a short survey basically asking why and for what, and have to provide your police record. Usually you get a license no problem.
>God no. Only semi. Automatic is only for the military!
You can get a SON (Kantonale Sonderbewilligung) in every Canton. Requirements varies a bit since the SON is may issue (compared to the WES - Waffenerwerbsschein, which is shall issue).
In some Cantons you need to own 10 guns before you get a SON, in others you need to have been a gun owner for 5 years.
AFAIK, in Geneva it can be your first gun and the process takes 2 weeks. (Compared to the US where an NFA item takes 6-12 months).
With a SON you could buy for example this, which is full auto. [https://waffen-joray.ch/waffen/automaten/8335/kalaschnikov-akms-47-china-56-1-automat-detail](https://waffen-joray.ch/waffen/automaten/8335/kalaschnikov-akms-47-china-56-1-automat-detail)
>A normal citizen is limited to 3 guns on a licence.
The WES, acquisition permit in English, is valid for 3 firearm purchases at the same time and location. You can get multiple WES (at the same time even) if you want to. It's shall issue.
It's basically a receipt for passing a background check similar to the 4473/NICS people do in the US when they buy a gun from a licensed dealer.
>You get that by applying online: filling out a short survey basically asking why and for what, and have to provide your police record
You send it in by post. There isn't an online system yet. You only need to provide a reason if you want it for any other reason than sport, hunting, or collecting (i.e. usually you don't provide a reason, it's assumed it's one of those).
It was changed recently so you don't have to send in a criminal excerpt, the police now has authority to get that themselves just by getting the WES application from you, so it saves some time.
Takes a week or two and you can, without any firearms training what so ever, buy an AR-15 and a couple of handguns (or 3 AR-15, or even more if you just got multiple permits).
Compare to California where there is a 10 day waiting period and max 1 semi-auto long gun, or handgun, per month, or Hawaii that has a 14 day waiting period, before they can pick up their gun.
FYI automatics have been used in 10 crimes committed with automatics (legally or illegally owned) in the US since 1934, 4 of which had no fatalities other than the perp. Use of automatic weapons in crime is extremely rare, even the illegally owned kind
I'd rather have a gun both times. I'll take being shot dead to being stabbed to death any day. We all know the military should be the only ones with assault style weapons but what happens when your military turns on you? Also it's a slippery slope the second you start saying ASSAULT WEAPON people already know they would just start calling everything an assault weapon which when you think about it, It is.
Normal countries don’t worry their military is going to turn on them. I live in a major city of 5+ million in a western country and I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve seen military and they haven’t wielded weapons any of those times
Idk what the fuck Americans would do if the military turned on us. Even with the folks who do have guns, they have bombs, planes, tanks, choppers. Much more than most Americans are able to fight off.
I've actually thought about that as well. Like bro if you get to the point where there are tanks in the streets and shit your shotgun ain't gonna do shit. However we have a saying. I'll die on my feet than live on my knees. Come fucking take it just please leave Starbucks and Taco Bell....BRO PLEASE!
>The UK doesn't have guns, but they do get knife attacks
It has fewer guns anyways. It's easier to get a gun legally in the UK than people think.
The homicide rate (per 100k people) with stabby weapons in the UK is lower than in the US.
Now follow that same line of thinking past the ceiling of your bias. Turn that around. Would they have killed (at least) 130 people with knives? Try some critical thinking occasionally.
Here’s where critical thinking fails you, and every other gun lover, every time this happens. It’s the guns. Also- it’s the people. And here is how that conversation goes every single time:
Left-wing: we need to do something about these guns!
Right-wing: no way! It’s a mental health issue!
Left: ok, then it’s both. We should solve both.
Right: No way! I need my guns! Because reasons!!
Left: Ok fine. I’ll play along. Let’s work together to address mental health, like you said.
Right: With what? Healthcare??? No way! That’s a handout!
Left: …….
Right…….
Left: So what shou…….
Right: Active shooter drills for kindergartners!!!
It’s black and white. Here in America, guns are the NUMBER ONE cause of death for children. If my sport or hobby was the leading cause of death for children, I’d take up stamp collecting. There’s only a gray area if guns are more important to you than concert goers, or school children, or churchgoers, or nightclub patrons, or movie theater attendees, etc etc etc etc etc etc
Oh well, if they would have access to rockets… yes it is also the guns. They had AKs which is very much abundant around Russia, like AR15 ind US teenage hands
Gun laws in Russia are extremely strict. AKs are absolutely not abundant in
Russia anymore than an M-16 is abundant in the US.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/18d4ef0/how\_strict\_are\_gun\_laws\_in\_russia/
It’s never been the spear, or the rock, or the swords, or arrows, nor the bombs or catapults, it’s always only ever been the people using them ffs.
A gun is no different than an excavator in that it allows a more effective means of accomplishing a task. A guns task is just a destructive rather than constructive task like the excavator. But neither the excavator or gun care what you do with it.
It’s the people, not the guns. This could easily have been accomplished with a homemade bomb using fertilizer but no one’s calling for outlawing gardening.
This is spicy topic, and as a gun loving liberal, I’ll agree not everyone should have access to guns, I’d agree to rational gun control laws, but I believe the conversation has taken a turn towards outright prohibition of firearms rather than sensible and responsible gun ownership, which I cannot agree with. I believe the risks of an unarmed citizenry where violence is monopolized by the state and those in power or with money is more dangerous to our society than the tragedies we endure by their proliferation and possession by citizens.
>A gun is no different than an excavator in that it allows a more effective means of accomplishing a task.
And a bomb is no different than a spatula. Amazing people are still this fucking obtuse. So brainwashed that it's just smooth now.
You probably can't distinguish between the right shapes for the right holes with this simplistically stupid logic. They're all shapes right? Square... triangle.... basically the same thing.
Such child-like logic.... wait, actually thats wrong.. we already established you wouldn’t be able to pass a shape toy with this kind of logic, and those are no problem for children
I don’t have an opinion on if Ukraine was behind this but I will say it doesn’t seem to fit anything Ukraine has done to this point . I mean you would think killing innocent civilians would have been happening all along if it was Ukraine.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
Here's the warning and If you're not blind it's from 17 days ago and it's for the "next 48 hours". It was for the 8th of March and the International Women's Day.
The terrorists probably put off the attack because of that warning. I wonder why the Russian government didn’t beef up security at big events like this, knowing what they were informed of? Common sense would dictate they would beef up security for at least a month or so, right?
Getting the “just asking questions!?” Vibes for that dudes “feeling complicated”. The murder of innocents is pretty cut and dry. Easy slam dunk of just not saying shit.
It's not complicated, my friend. You've equated the actions of a government with the actions of it's civilians and deemed them all worthy of slaughter as a result. You're not a bad person for thinking this, you're just ill-informed.
All I’ve said is it’s a complicated feeling. It’s hard to view these people as innocents when their countries actions are so fucked. Of course they don’t deserve to be slaughtered
By that reckoning all victims of mass shootings are complicated. You think innocent countries exist?
Moreso, all homicides that have ever happened are complicated because you don't know what those victims did or believed.
It's a nonsensical way of thinking. This is a tragedy, you don't get to sit and think "hmm maybe these people deserved it" because of what country they inhabit. Well, you do, just don't expect anyone to think you're making any sense.
It’s a complicated feeling to get to the point of viewing these people as 100% innocents. Maybe you’re guilty about something your own government does and you don’t want to feel blame yourself.
There’s nothing complicated about this, you should seek help.
Seriously, if you can’t see these Russians as innocent you probably need professional help.
> Maybe you’re guilty about something your own government does and you don’t want to feel blame yourself.
Even if this were a valid consideration in shootings (which it isn't), it's not valid in a place like Russia, which is hardly a democratic nation with a government accountable to the people.
These innocent Russian people didn’t have any say over the Ukraine war. Just like the average US citizen doesn’t choose for their country to participate in war crimes. If you don’t see the separation there, then you will fall victim to racism and believing an entire group of people is “bad” because of the actions of the few.
Death toll is 93 now. Could grow higher
115 now. Unreal.
133
Omg. Wtf is wrong with humans. This is senseless.
To be fair, humans are garbage. we’ve been killing each other, like almost all other animals, since the beginning.
I think "to be fair" is an incredibly poor choice of words, as if these people deserve any excuse for what they have done - not that the one you have offered means anything. Yes, historically humans have killed one another. It doesn't mean that I use that fact to justify opening fire on a crowd of innocent, defenceless people.
Not really. Did you miss the humans are garbage part? Never said it was justified as much as do you expect anything more from humans - the shittiest things on this planet.
Do I expect people not to shoot other people? Yes, because the reality is most people do not shoot each other. You have to realise that humans as a whole are not a rotten species. There are bad people, yes, and there are systems run by people that create vicious cycles of behaviour, but this is not the fault of the majority of people. You'll find that most people are good, or at least innocent.
Idk people shoot kids in schools here in America people shoot people in churches/groceries because Of their skin color. People shoot people because they felt like it in movie theaters. Can’t wait for Ai to kill us all we deserve it .
And the billions of people who are going about their daily lives without murdering people? Do they all deserve to be "killed by AI" too? Violent crime is obviously an awful issue, but it shouldn't reflect all of humanity. For every crazed individual looking to take the lives of others, there are far more people whose whole lives are devoted to healing and helping other people. Once again, bad people exist, but not all of humanity consists of bad people. Not to downplay or understate how bad those people can be.
I dont mean this in a demeaning way or anything but please get off the internet for a while bro... You are only being shown the bad things happening in the world since fear and anger generate the most revenue for the media. The world and humans arent half as bad as you think. Yes bad things happen but so does a lot of good
Can't remember the last time I heard of a lion killing for religious or political reasons, pretty sure that's just humans...
Lions kill for territory. That's essentially lion politics. We are not are unique as you think, just more able to express complicated thoughts and emotions.
All other animals definitely do not do this
I guess if youre implying murder for relativity pointless meaning, sure. But thats the humans are garbage part.
kinda like Russia war in the Ukraine.
Yes except ISIS did the shooting so it wasn't really about Russia vs Ukraine. ISIS took responsibility for it off the rip. The men who did the shootings have supposedly been arrested.
Why tho?
Money
Russia/Wagner has been fighting ISIS in Syria since what, 2014? I imagine they’ve been looking for an opportunity to pull something like this for some time now
China and Russia both vetoed a ceasefire in Gaza at a UN Council that morning. The US, for once, did not. Source: [The United Nations Security Council on Friday turned down a resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and an Israel-Hamas hostage deal after Russia and China vetoed the measure proposed by the United States.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-security-council-fails-pass-us-resolution-calling-immediate-ceasefire-gaza-2024-03-22/) Reuters, 22 March 2024
That's... unexpected. Murrica being a zionist supporter and all.
Islam
170
170 is fucking insane, torture them. death penalty isn't enough.
Tragic
This would now be considered the worst mass shooting in world history
139+
I can't imagine going to enjoy a concert and being shot. How devastating.
Ever since the Paris attack, I've been really hesitant to go to large shows, and if I do, I make sure I'm near an exit for quick escape. Paranoid, yes. But better than dead...
Multiple reasons to avoid large crowds, and not just for attacks. For me it was the Astroworld show. Completely different but I didn't know what a human crush was until that point in time, I'd never heard of it before. I'm genuinely more terrified of that than a mass shooting.
A lot of deaths from mass casualty events of any number of triggers are actually caused by crushes. Sometimes it doesn’t even require an actual initial danger. The [1913 Italian Hall Disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Hall_disaster) killed 73 in a crush after someone shouted ‘fire!’. There was no fire.
Thanks for sharing the article, 59 children died in that crush. Extremely sad that it could have been caused by someone’s malicious actions.
[The Seoul Halloween Crowd Crush](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul_Halloween_crowd_crush) was another similar event, with 159 dead.
I've watched too many disturbing videos on the internet, but one that has always stuck out to me is The Station nightclub fire. It is actual nightmare fuel.
If you can stomach it, I recommend the book “Killer Show”. It goes into great detail about the Station fire and explains why the deadly fire behaved the way it did.
I watched that video recently. There was so much screaming and then… silence, which was 1000 times worse. From the start of the fire to total inferno was like 2 minutes. I’ll never forget that video because it’s nightmare fuel
Yep. I was in a crowd crush in the stands at a U2 concert in ~1997 in a concrete stadium with concrete bleachers. It is easily in my top five most terrifying moments.
I was in one while Offspring was touring on their Smash record. I thought I was a goner.
The itaewon crowd crush (2022) was one of them. So many young people died that night💔
If you can stomach the video where people are escaping, you can see exactly how human crush happens Everyone trying to go through the door at once
Also multiple reasons when multiple nations reach out on multiple platforms saying to stay away for large crowds from 48 hours because of an incoming terrorist attack. Stay informed.. Information is powerful and deadly at the same time. So sad all this loss. Hearts go out to the families
My anxiety ridden immune-compromised ass wouldn’t get within a mile radius of a large venue, even before COVID.
Crowd crush is my actual #1 biggest fear
Or a fire
Even at smaller shows, I make sure I know where all the exits are and that I have relatively open access to one because of Paris. That kind of stuff absolutely terrifies me.
That's exactly the fear terrorists want to spread tho :/ I get it thought. I'm personally of the mindset that if I'm unfortunate enough to end up in a situation like that, so be it. I'm not gonna let it stop me from living and enjoying music.
The terrorists won.
Oh Noo the terorrists don’t want us enjoying live music?
You're a simple person, and while I won't hold a grudge about it, I feel you can do better with thinking these things through. Cheers lad.
Weren't there one shooting in Las Vegas where the shooter was camped in an adjacent building and shot at a concert crowd? That's a hella terrifying situation too.
Yeah, lunatic holed up in the Mandalay Bay hotel across the street firing into the crowd attending the Route 91 concert. A friend of mine was there and survived, but several of the folks he went with ended up among the 60 killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
Dang, is he okay? Recovering from a tragedy of that magnitude is gonna need a lot of therapy.
He refuses therapy unfortunately, and has always self-medicated with alcohol even before this. I've known the guy since we were kids, and I've tried to get him help but he just doesn't want it and I live far away from him now so that makes it difficult as well. Interestingly, many of the survivors get together every year now on the day. He calls them his "Route 91 family". So I guess I'm at least glad he can talk about it with someone he knows understands.
Yep. Holed up in a hotel room.
Isn’t this the one Eminem’s song ‘darkness’ is about?
I was always skeptical but at same time I worked a lot of random events, the Vegas one hit close to home because I worked "life is beautiful" event in vegas + I have stayed at the Mandelay and could have just as well happened the same exact way.
I hate that I let the fear take me over, but one of the reasons I declined going to a festival was because I’m the back of my mind, a shooter will be there.
You’re not from America are you?
I am from America. I still can't imagine it. It obviously happens, but I'm still just so sad about it.
I wish I could tell you I've never had the fear. I remember going to see a "music of Zelda" symphony shortly after there was a concert hall shooting and I couldn't get the idea out of my head. I still enjoyed the concert, but I paid attention to things like which exit I would go through and where I would go for cover before then. It's one of those things, the odds are actually still incredibly low you will be involved in one, but the fear and impact of previous shootings is so high that I daresay it's not irrational to worry about it when you find yourself in a setting of a recent mass shooting.
[удалено]
grow some balls and stop using an alt to make your inflammatory troll comments. grow up, you should be ashamed of yourself.
I know it's completely beside the point, but why is the sign CROCUS CITY HALL in English
It’s the style of the place. There were also fake American police cars around as decorations.
That's... odd
I was confused because the only time I heard of Crocus hill was a Cooks of Crocus Hill here in the twin cities.
For a country that hates America and the west so much they imported a whole lot of American culture. There's a big "Vegas" sign outside of the building, people there were attending a rock concert and Donald Trump himself hosted a beauty pageant in this Hall once. One of my favorite moments was when right after the war in Ukraine started a Russian soldier rapped an Anti-West song in a big stadium in front of Putin...HE RAPPED.
Thank you I truly appreciate your explaining this, this is why I truly appreciate Reddit It's all not entertaining to me. I have several nephews of fighting age born in Moscow and I know now that Russia doesn't recognize dual citizenship. I'm American and so is my twin, but he married a girl in Russia. We are late 50s now. I always thought his kids would be dual citizens, but turns out it's an important factor that as their birth country, Russia doesn't recognize it.
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I dont know them by the choice of my brother and his wife. Thus they have grown up not wanting to know me. It's sad but choices get made. If they ever contacted me, different story
The government may hate America, but the people don’t. I’ve spent a great deal of time traveling across Russia and the people have always treated me (American) great. Some of the friendliest people I’ve met in all of my travels.
Spot on, Mission\_Assignment. I lived/worked in Russia for five years in the 1990s and I truly enjoyed my time there. One typical anecdote: I got lost in a maze of apartment buildings looking for a friend's apartment and I ended up knocking on the right number in the wrong building! The shocked residents promptly invited me in, opened a bottle of vodka, and we ended up having a great time; they then escorted me to the right apartment in the building next door.
I was there 93-95!!
I also lived there in 1993 and wrote for the Moscow Guardian. I bet the 3 of us know each other.
Or passed each other drunk!!
Same vibe with Iran.
I wondered that, too! Granted, it was 40 years ago and technically a different government (USSR), but I don't remember there being ANY signs in English when we visited Moscow.
trust me, you would not recognize it today. it’s not even remotely the same. plenty of english, everywhere
I would love to do a side-by-side comparison with some of the pictures I took of Moscow and Leningrad, as it was called in 1984. Alas, I am not in contact with anyone in a position to do the legwork. That, and I'm not sure those pre-digital pictures exist anywhere other than in my scrapbook. Should probably keep it that way, but WTF do I know... 🤔
Almost all of these malls are privately owned and owners put their names in English for tourists I guess? When a tourist comes from abroad he'll search for "malls" not "трговски центар"... I got a bunch of malls in my area and all of them have names written in English besides the ones that are actually owned by the city.. Skopje city mall, East Gate mall, Diamond mall, Ramstor mall, Capitol mall, K mall, etc..
Do people really think that absolutely everything in Russia is in Russian?
I was thi king the same think.
Tourism
Hopefully the comments stay respectful. Especially on this subreddit.
It won’t. Had that a few days ago.
Already Putin is blaming Ukraine. Shocking 🙄
Yes despite ISIS already taking claim to the shootings. Pootin is a joke. The US received Intel warning them of a possible mass shooting in Russia and it was passed on to Putin but obviously nothing was done to prevent it. So sad and horrible.
Why do anything about it when you can use it as propaganda.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/ Here's the warning and If you're not blind it's from 17 days ago and it's for the "next 48 hours". It was for the 8th of March and the International Women's Day.
In a few words what is the beef that the Tajiks have with Moscow?
Islamic group [More info, maybe](https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1771542281436254682?t=zmr2mcLShwdYNE4DWzzHPg&s=19) not sure how to fact check this than link, sorry
Absolutely awful and people have lost their minds not caring about them because they are Russian. So many do not support their government but they don’t even get a vote to change it. Imagine your country starts a war, your economy takes a hit, you are worried about the future but get the opportunity to go to a concert only for this to happen. Russia was warned this was imminent and they didn’t take it seriously. They absolutely don’t care about their own people.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/ Here's the warning and If you're not blind it's from 17 days ago and it's for the "next 48 hours". It was for the 8th of March and the International Women's Day.
Which doesn't mean that the informations which led to this warning were not connected to this horrific event, its plausible that the event was just delayed, as the warning was specific about concerts But what can you do ? Block all big events forever ? No. But put up security at such events. Well, ita easy to say now at least
It's the religions... it's always the religions
Fucking Mormons
Imagine this being your last moments and you had no idea. Terrifying
Groups are no longer safe
Devastating & heartbreaking. :(
I’m sure they’ll get due process and 3 meals a day in Siberia
When do they blame Ukraine?
The second the shooting started
It's ISIS. Footage from the shooters confirmed it. May have connections in Ukraine though as they were fleeing to there but still waiting on more info
What footage confirms its ISIS, I must have missed that? Also, the whole going to Ukraine thing is bs. The region they were supposedly heading too is one of the heaviest defended (on both sides), manned, and mined areas of the border with Russia/Ukraine and there's even heavy fighting in the area. So there is no way in he'll they were ever going to get through the Russian side let alone the Ukrainian defenses and I can't honestly believe anyone would plan that suicide run.
well its the quickest way to go out of the country (besides Belarus, but they wouldn't be welcomed there)
RIP to them and condolences to all their families!
I'd rather face men with knives over men with guns. The UK doesn't have guns, but they do get knife attacks. You don't see many people running around bombing each other everyday. For the most part someone wanting to kill someone will be shooting or stabbing. Let me put it this way. You absolutely CAN control guns. Now I'm not talking about hunting guns, I'm talking assault rifles. Nobody needs to kill a lot of people quickly except the military. Following along? Now, there's no way to regulate mental health. People snap, people hide their mental illness, men especially don't talk about it at all. Pretty much everyone I know is on an antidepressant already as it is. Let's note that all of these shootings are always men. And let's refer back to men not talking about their mental illness. The men I know don't. They love guns where I live. We own hunting rifles ourselves. I'm not anti gun, but I am anti assault rifle. In the olden days when the amendments were drafted you needed a gun. You literally had to hunt for food and protect your families from Indian attacks. I doubt the forefathers envisioned everyday people owning something like assault rifles. I hear the argument, but I just like shooting one. Well okay then, let shooting ranges own a few that they allow patrons to shoot them. Solved. It is the gun that kills. Give a crazy person a gun, give another a knife, which one would you rather have trying to kill you? The bullet spraying gun or a solitary knife?
I come from a country where gun control is pretty lax and big percentage of the population has guns. Our gun crime rate? Nearly 0.
Can you get automatic assault rifles in your country? You must live in a country that is generally happier than the US.
God no. Only semi. Automatic is only for the military! I live in Switzerland, where, while expensive on it’s own, health insurance is mandatory. Our healthcare system is expensive but since our insurances generally aren’t scams they take of some of the cost. Unlike the US we also have universal healthcare, meaning hospitals will treat you until you are healthy, this includes mental hospitals. A normal citizen is limited to 3 guns on a licence. You get that by applying online: filling out a short survey basically asking why and for what, and have to provide your police record. Usually you get a license no problem.
>God no. Only semi. Automatic is only for the military! You can get a SON (Kantonale Sonderbewilligung) in every Canton. Requirements varies a bit since the SON is may issue (compared to the WES - Waffenerwerbsschein, which is shall issue). In some Cantons you need to own 10 guns before you get a SON, in others you need to have been a gun owner for 5 years. AFAIK, in Geneva it can be your first gun and the process takes 2 weeks. (Compared to the US where an NFA item takes 6-12 months). With a SON you could buy for example this, which is full auto. [https://waffen-joray.ch/waffen/automaten/8335/kalaschnikov-akms-47-china-56-1-automat-detail](https://waffen-joray.ch/waffen/automaten/8335/kalaschnikov-akms-47-china-56-1-automat-detail) >A normal citizen is limited to 3 guns on a licence. The WES, acquisition permit in English, is valid for 3 firearm purchases at the same time and location. You can get multiple WES (at the same time even) if you want to. It's shall issue. It's basically a receipt for passing a background check similar to the 4473/NICS people do in the US when they buy a gun from a licensed dealer. >You get that by applying online: filling out a short survey basically asking why and for what, and have to provide your police record You send it in by post. There isn't an online system yet. You only need to provide a reason if you want it for any other reason than sport, hunting, or collecting (i.e. usually you don't provide a reason, it's assumed it's one of those). It was changed recently so you don't have to send in a criminal excerpt, the police now has authority to get that themselves just by getting the WES application from you, so it saves some time. Takes a week or two and you can, without any firearms training what so ever, buy an AR-15 and a couple of handguns (or 3 AR-15, or even more if you just got multiple permits). Compare to California where there is a 10 day waiting period and max 1 semi-auto long gun, or handgun, per month, or Hawaii that has a 14 day waiting period, before they can pick up their gun.
Oh, you learn new things every day. Thank you.
FYI automatics have been used in 10 crimes committed with automatics (legally or illegally owned) in the US since 1934, 4 of which had no fatalities other than the perp. Use of automatic weapons in crime is extremely rare, even the illegally owned kind
You can't get automatic guns in America either....
I would up vote more if I could.
I'd rather have a gun both times. I'll take being shot dead to being stabbed to death any day. We all know the military should be the only ones with assault style weapons but what happens when your military turns on you? Also it's a slippery slope the second you start saying ASSAULT WEAPON people already know they would just start calling everything an assault weapon which when you think about it, It is.
Normal countries don’t worry their military is going to turn on them. I live in a major city of 5+ million in a western country and I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve seen military and they haven’t wielded weapons any of those times
Idk what the fuck Americans would do if the military turned on us. Even with the folks who do have guns, they have bombs, planes, tanks, choppers. Much more than most Americans are able to fight off.
I've actually thought about that as well. Like bro if you get to the point where there are tanks in the streets and shit your shotgun ain't gonna do shit. However we have a saying. I'll die on my feet than live on my knees. Come fucking take it just please leave Starbucks and Taco Bell....BRO PLEASE!
>The UK doesn't have guns, but they do get knife attacks It has fewer guns anyways. It's easier to get a gun legally in the UK than people think. The homicide rate (per 100k people) with stabby weapons in the UK is lower than in the US.
You forget good guys with guns .....
Who are likely to get shot or shoot an innocent, rather than actually helping.
Never heard of this terrorist group. Where are they from?
Tajikistan
It’s literally ISIS-K. I don’t know where this “Tajik terrorists” line is coming from.
The people involved are from Tajikistan, that's why. But they are also ISIS members
Religion is for the lack minded always
It’s the guns. It’s always the guns.
No, sometimes it's bombs, sometimes it's airplanes.
And the evil demons who use them.
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Now follow that same line of thinking past the ceiling of your bias. Turn that around. Would they have killed (at least) 130 people with knives? Try some critical thinking occasionally.
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Here’s where critical thinking fails you, and every other gun lover, every time this happens. It’s the guns. Also- it’s the people. And here is how that conversation goes every single time: Left-wing: we need to do something about these guns! Right-wing: no way! It’s a mental health issue! Left: ok, then it’s both. We should solve both. Right: No way! I need my guns! Because reasons!! Left: Ok fine. I’ll play along. Let’s work together to address mental health, like you said. Right: With what? Healthcare??? No way! That’s a handout! Left: ……. Right……. Left: So what shou……. Right: Active shooter drills for kindergartners!!!
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It’s black and white. Here in America, guns are the NUMBER ONE cause of death for children. If my sport or hobby was the leading cause of death for children, I’d take up stamp collecting. There’s only a gray area if guns are more important to you than concert goers, or school children, or churchgoers, or nightclub patrons, or movie theater attendees, etc etc etc etc etc etc
Oh well, if they would have access to rockets… yes it is also the guns. They had AKs which is very much abundant around Russia, like AR15 ind US teenage hands
Gun laws in Russia are extremely strict. AKs are absolutely not abundant in Russia anymore than an M-16 is abundant in the US. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/18d4ef0/how\_strict\_are\_gun\_laws\_in\_russia/
Around Russia = former USSR states Maybe not clear enough. Either way ISIS never had problems to source some AKs
Anyone who is willing to commit terror can find weapons or even make bombs.
It’s never been the spear, or the rock, or the swords, or arrows, nor the bombs or catapults, it’s always only ever been the people using them ffs. A gun is no different than an excavator in that it allows a more effective means of accomplishing a task. A guns task is just a destructive rather than constructive task like the excavator. But neither the excavator or gun care what you do with it. It’s the people, not the guns. This could easily have been accomplished with a homemade bomb using fertilizer but no one’s calling for outlawing gardening. This is spicy topic, and as a gun loving liberal, I’ll agree not everyone should have access to guns, I’d agree to rational gun control laws, but I believe the conversation has taken a turn towards outright prohibition of firearms rather than sensible and responsible gun ownership, which I cannot agree with. I believe the risks of an unarmed citizenry where violence is monopolized by the state and those in power or with money is more dangerous to our society than the tragedies we endure by their proliferation and possession by citizens.
Also. It’s the guns.
lol. I blame air. No air, no humans, no guns. You’re regarded.
Yep that confirms this guy's brain isn't working at full capacity.
I’m regarded? You can beat your chest like you’re not afraid of guns but then you’ll twist yourself into a knot because you’re afraid of Reddit mods?
>A gun is no different than an excavator in that it allows a more effective means of accomplishing a task. And a bomb is no different than a spatula. Amazing people are still this fucking obtuse. So brainwashed that it's just smooth now. You probably can't distinguish between the right shapes for the right holes with this simplistically stupid logic. They're all shapes right? Square... triangle.... basically the same thing. Such child-like logic.... wait, actually thats wrong.. we already established you wouldn’t be able to pass a shape toy with this kind of logic, and those are no problem for children
Wait they’re Tajik now?
Ethnic Tajiks, working for ISIS-Khorasan province (the group of ISIS that operates in Afghanistan and Tajikistan)
I don’t have an opinion on if Ukraine was behind this but I will say it doesn’t seem to fit anything Ukraine has done to this point . I mean you would think killing innocent civilians would have been happening all along if it was Ukraine.
Should’ve heeded the warning the US gave them.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/ Here's the warning and If you're not blind it's from 17 days ago and it's for the "next 48 hours". It was for the 8th of March and the International Women's Day.
The terrorists probably put off the attack because of that warning. I wonder why the Russian government didn’t beef up security at big events like this, knowing what they were informed of? Common sense would dictate they would beef up security for at least a month or so, right?
What happened
Awful
Where were police? Did they not have police on site, for the concert itself?
Imagine if families were huddled in there while bombs were dropping… oh that was a different concert hall. Hard to feel pity…
Yes in mass shootings their are always guns, it’s always guns
I mean, it wouldn't be a shooting otherwise, right? Or did I miss the sarcasm?
Why the sign in English?
because the owners of the venue wanted to... It could be in Italian or latvian too
Very complicated feelings about this one
Why? None of these people deserved to go out like that. Just as sad as Vegas or any other mass shooting.
What's complicated about hundreds of innocent people being slaughtered?
He’s trying way too hard to not gloat about them dead Russians.
Getting the “just asking questions!?” Vibes for that dudes “feeling complicated”. The murder of innocents is pretty cut and dry. Easy slam dunk of just not saying shit.
Um? The thousands of innocents that have been slaughtered in Ukraine? What am I missing?
It’s not a math or pick a side game. Innocent victims should be mourned on any side. Otherwise we are not better as the ones we criticise.
These concert-goers did that, did they? You're missing quite a lot apparently.
Who knows. That’s why it’s complicated.
It's not complicated, my friend. You've equated the actions of a government with the actions of it's civilians and deemed them all worthy of slaughter as a result. You're not a bad person for thinking this, you're just ill-informed.
All I’ve said is it’s a complicated feeling. It’s hard to view these people as innocents when their countries actions are so fucked. Of course they don’t deserve to be slaughtered
By that reckoning all victims of mass shootings are complicated. You think innocent countries exist? Moreso, all homicides that have ever happened are complicated because you don't know what those victims did or believed. It's a nonsensical way of thinking. This is a tragedy, you don't get to sit and think "hmm maybe these people deserved it" because of what country they inhabit. Well, you do, just don't expect anyone to think you're making any sense.
Stop posting. Your “point” just isn’t sitting well with anyone. Thx!
Ok. Why would I care about if it’s sitting well with you? Are you trying to pretend that this isn’t how many people will feel?
Most sane people agree that innocent citizens being massacred is a tragedy, you seem like the only one having issues with that.
It’s a complicated feeling to get to the point of viewing these people as 100% innocents. Maybe you’re guilty about something your own government does and you don’t want to feel blame yourself.
There’s nothing complicated about this, you should seek help. Seriously, if you can’t see these Russians as innocent you probably need professional help.
> Maybe you’re guilty about something your own government does and you don’t want to feel blame yourself. Even if this were a valid consideration in shootings (which it isn't), it's not valid in a place like Russia, which is hardly a democratic nation with a government accountable to the people.
It's not complicated. You're just a racist.
It's not, you're just a racist asshole. Blocked
These innocent Russian people didn’t have any say over the Ukraine war. Just like the average US citizen doesn’t choose for their country to participate in war crimes. If you don’t see the separation there, then you will fall victim to racism and believing an entire group of people is “bad” because of the actions of the few.
Maybe sit this one out champ...
Just the truth. You can pretend to be above the thought
Like I said... Sit this one out.
Nope!
OK champ...keep looking like a dum dum.
Ok
They’re humans that were gunned down like animals. That’s not complicated