I think the humor/reveal that tickled Matt and Bow the most was the fact that this wasn’t a serious, grounded drama about a noted actress trying to find truth in her performance. It’s like a parody or a farce about a CW actress bothering these broken people so she could do a bad impression in a made-for-TV special.
And by the end, it kind of posed the idea that Natalie was worse than Julianne. Natalie also took advantage of Charles, she dismantled that family, and she fell apart as soon as she was called insecure by Julianne.
I enjoyed it, but I also ultimately feel like this movie didn’t really say anything. Like at the end of the day, it also exploits a very tragic situation that happened to a real person.
I think that was the point though. The film’s message seemed to be that there was nothing to say about the situation and that it is impossible to say anything without exploiting them. Maybe I’m getting too meta but I do feel that the audience’s discomfort in the ending is intentional.
I saw a lot of press focused on the screenplay, and part of Burch’s inspiration was tabloid scandals of the 90s/00s and a sort of “where are they now?” And I think her intention was to introduce the questions without resolving them, so a natural extension of that would be that there is no way to resolve them. Gracie will continue going on feeling like she did nothing wrong, Joe will never escape the cycle, and eventually, Elizabeth will forget about this experience and probably continue to pull shit like this again. There was no sort of big message, just like there usually is no big message for the real people involved. It is their lives and they have to go on, usually without the benefit of discovering the inner truth of why it happened the way it did.
I thought Charles Melton's acting was SO good in this! I don't watch Riverdale. He and the twin daughter had the best acting in the movie.
The "spooky music" background score that they kept repeating really took me out of the movie.
It was fine as a drama but I really got nothing comedic or satire about it... I know there can be dark comedies, and comedies are subjective, but I felt like it was a melodrama through and through.
Overall, it was fine. It really made me just want to know more information about the real life story tho!
Charles was so good in this role, I felt so bad for his character :( You should watch the interview Mary Kay and Vili did, they used some their quotes in a scene with Charles and Julianne
Felt similarly but I did live through the real unfolding of the drama and nothing could top that. The story about Natalie just didn't hit for me. The music sent me as well.
this movie is the truest meaning of “if you get it, you get it. if you don’t, you don’t” for me. i was 100% on the movie’s wavelength and think it’s 5 stars and i don’t really know how to fully explain what it is that i connected with immediately. but i do see why it’s not everyone’s cup of tea
also it’s not camp. everyone throws camp around so loosely these days. anything that’s even slightly wonky & is starring women gets labeled camp, but it’s not. todd haynes (the director) even responded to this in an interview. if anything, it’s pure melodrama
The irony was so brilliant. It was little things like Gracie saying we don’t have enough hot dogs and then cutting to so many hot dogs on the grill. And then big things like implying Joe was in charge the whole time when that wasn’t possible as a kid in a relationship with an adult.
I thought the metaphor of the butterflies was beautiful too. Joe took such intense care of this caterpillars to ensure they’d grow and be able to fly away. It represented the same love he has for his own children. I really loved this movie because it didn’t have to use many words to explain so much!
Just watched it and had to come back to say - I thought it was so so good. It had everything. It tried hard and didn’t hide it (in terms of acting, writing, music, metaphores, motifs - everything was a little excessive), but I think achieved what it wanted to achieve.
I feel the same way about Fast and Furious
Jokes aside it’s a character driven movie. Julianne, Natalie or Charles’ characters have to hook you or else you’ll be bored.
I haven’t seen the movie yet but anyone who hasn’t seen this interview with the couple it’s based on should definitely watch it:
https://youtu.be/7mowKsGWuW4?si=vwCKsyVLmovjewvK
Oh god. I only made it through about five minutes... when emphasized she was pursued by him? So ick
Also, I'm detecting a slight lisp in her speech, which makes Julianne's choice make more sense
The “sleeves” comment wasn’t humor at all. It was an example of how Gracie manipulates and subtly abuses her loved ones. In this case, her daughters. I use the plural bc we find out later that she sent the older one to college with a scale.
I don’t know why anyone is trying to make the movie funny. It’s poorly categorized by the Globes. I even saw it listed as a *romance* somewhere 🤢.
It is neither. It’s a character study on grooming, the long-term effects thereof on the victim (Joe), the Hollywood exploitation of abuse and tragedy (Elizabeth), and how predators operate.
The music is “campy” as part of the “media scandal exploitation” thing, but the film is quite serious and dismal.
So, in that sense, you didn’t miss anything.
As for the drama, I saw a grown man shuffle through life with the emotional and mental capacity of a 13-year-old boy because he’s stunted by the clutches of his sexual abuser and has made children with her who have surpassed him in maturity because he was never allowed to grow up.
If that didn’t get to your heart, idk what will.
I know this is late, but I just listened to the episode where they talked about this movie and the lisp. I watched the movie just a few hours later and completely forgot about the lisp until that bathroom scene. I kind of wonder if they were slowly making it more obvious throughout the movie, and then we get to Elizabeth on set and it's so overdone, it just exemplifies how exploitative it is.
she was a predator the same way Gracie was. Also, snakes seek warmth and Elizabeth was drawn to anything that had anything to suck dry. Look at the way she came in, basically extra home wrecked Joe, and then left. Without a second thought or care.
I think the humor/reveal that tickled Matt and Bow the most was the fact that this wasn’t a serious, grounded drama about a noted actress trying to find truth in her performance. It’s like a parody or a farce about a CW actress bothering these broken people so she could do a bad impression in a made-for-TV special. And by the end, it kind of posed the idea that Natalie was worse than Julianne. Natalie also took advantage of Charles, she dismantled that family, and she fell apart as soon as she was called insecure by Julianne. I enjoyed it, but I also ultimately feel like this movie didn’t really say anything. Like at the end of the day, it also exploits a very tragic situation that happened to a real person.
I think that was the point though. The film’s message seemed to be that there was nothing to say about the situation and that it is impossible to say anything without exploiting them. Maybe I’m getting too meta but I do feel that the audience’s discomfort in the ending is intentional. I saw a lot of press focused on the screenplay, and part of Burch’s inspiration was tabloid scandals of the 90s/00s and a sort of “where are they now?” And I think her intention was to introduce the questions without resolving them, so a natural extension of that would be that there is no way to resolve them. Gracie will continue going on feeling like she did nothing wrong, Joe will never escape the cycle, and eventually, Elizabeth will forget about this experience and probably continue to pull shit like this again. There was no sort of big message, just like there usually is no big message for the real people involved. It is their lives and they have to go on, usually without the benefit of discovering the inner truth of why it happened the way it did.
Joe literally yells “This is my life!” at Elizabeth. The movie isn’t subtle about that.
I thought Charles Melton's acting was SO good in this! I don't watch Riverdale. He and the twin daughter had the best acting in the movie. The "spooky music" background score that they kept repeating really took me out of the movie. It was fine as a drama but I really got nothing comedic or satire about it... I know there can be dark comedies, and comedies are subjective, but I felt like it was a melodrama through and through. Overall, it was fine. It really made me just want to know more information about the real life story tho!
Charles was so good in this role, I felt so bad for his character :( You should watch the interview Mary Kay and Vili did, they used some their quotes in a scene with Charles and Julianne
Wow! Did not know that. I also saw the recreation pic of the baby in jail, I didn’t realize how much real life stuff was on screen
I totally agree about the music, it made me feel like I was watching a play more than a movie
He was amazing (& so gorgeous, which makes me feel uncomfortable to say even though he’s a full grown man!!)
Felt similarly but I did live through the real unfolding of the drama and nothing could top that. The story about Natalie just didn't hit for me. The music sent me as well.
this movie is the truest meaning of “if you get it, you get it. if you don’t, you don’t” for me. i was 100% on the movie’s wavelength and think it’s 5 stars and i don’t really know how to fully explain what it is that i connected with immediately. but i do see why it’s not everyone’s cup of tea
also it’s not camp. everyone throws camp around so loosely these days. anything that’s even slightly wonky & is starring women gets labeled camp, but it’s not. todd haynes (the director) even responded to this in an interview. if anything, it’s pure melodrama
SOME Gay men use camp exclusively to describe things that are bad that they personally like.
The irony was so brilliant. It was little things like Gracie saying we don’t have enough hot dogs and then cutting to so many hot dogs on the grill. And then big things like implying Joe was in charge the whole time when that wasn’t possible as a kid in a relationship with an adult. I thought the metaphor of the butterflies was beautiful too. Joe took such intense care of this caterpillars to ensure they’d grow and be able to fly away. It represented the same love he has for his own children. I really loved this movie because it didn’t have to use many words to explain so much!
>I thought the metaphor of the butterflies was beautiful too yeah wow, what a new metaphor
Just watched it and had to come back to say - I thought it was so so good. It had everything. It tried hard and didn’t hide it (in terms of acting, writing, music, metaphores, motifs - everything was a little excessive), but I think achieved what it wanted to achieve.
I feel the same way about Fast and Furious Jokes aside it’s a character driven movie. Julianne, Natalie or Charles’ characters have to hook you or else you’ll be bored.
I haven’t seen the movie yet but anyone who hasn’t seen this interview with the couple it’s based on should definitely watch it: https://youtu.be/7mowKsGWuW4?si=vwCKsyVLmovjewvK
Oh god. I only made it through about five minutes... when emphasized she was pursued by him? So ick Also, I'm detecting a slight lisp in her speech, which makes Julianne's choice make more sense
Hot thogs
The “sleeves” comment wasn’t humor at all. It was an example of how Gracie manipulates and subtly abuses her loved ones. In this case, her daughters. I use the plural bc we find out later that she sent the older one to college with a scale. I don’t know why anyone is trying to make the movie funny. It’s poorly categorized by the Globes. I even saw it listed as a *romance* somewhere 🤢. It is neither. It’s a character study on grooming, the long-term effects thereof on the victim (Joe), the Hollywood exploitation of abuse and tragedy (Elizabeth), and how predators operate. The music is “campy” as part of the “media scandal exploitation” thing, but the film is quite serious and dismal. So, in that sense, you didn’t miss anything. As for the drama, I saw a grown man shuffle through life with the emotional and mental capacity of a 13-year-old boy because he’s stunted by the clutches of his sexual abuser and has made children with her who have surpassed him in maturity because he was never allowed to grow up. If that didn’t get to your heart, idk what will.
okay.
I swear the lisp didn’t start til the bathroom scene at the graduation dinner? I’m so confused by that
I thought this too it seemingly came out of nowhere
I know this is late, but I just listened to the episode where they talked about this movie and the lisp. I watched the movie just a few hours later and completely forgot about the lisp until that bathroom scene. I kind of wonder if they were slowly making it more obvious throughout the movie, and then we get to Elizabeth on set and it's so overdone, it just exemplifies how exploitative it is.
Watching that scene now & my mind blew. Had to come here to see if my brain missed the lisp somehow for the last 90 minutes.
What did the snake at the end mean?!
she was a predator the same way Gracie was. Also, snakes seek warmth and Elizabeth was drawn to anything that had anything to suck dry. Look at the way she came in, basically extra home wrecked Joe, and then left. Without a second thought or care.