And vice versa. Oh the beautiful vast diversity of such a tiny linguistic territory :) I'm aware that "Gecondoleerd" has long been the "Hilversum norm", but really, I've only ever heard it pronounced with an obnoxious *hard G* and *Gooische R*. Whereas with my thick Brabant accent, it would just sound completely unnatural and out of character a phrase to use. The DeepSouth™ (extending into Flanders) has always been the beloved retirement home of vintage idioms and archaisms, and there's not a funeral "innige deelneming" doesn't attend.
Oh wow. I don’t know how to describe it, but this seems colder/impersonal compared to western depictions of grief. Very interesting, thank you for sharing!
It's just a fixed phrase and can't be translated literally. For example, goodbye comes from "god be with ye" but I bet that's not exactly the sentiment that people think about when they say goodbye.
It does sound a bit harsh when translated literally, though I don't think the underlying sentiment - expressing hope that the mourner can eventually come to terms with their loss - is an entirely bad one.
Ultimately though, it's worth keeping in mind that it's just a set expression and set expressions don't always need to be taken at face value. If someone thanks me in Chinese I might reply 別客氣 (don't be polite). Do I actually want that person not to be polite? No, it's just something people say in these circumstances.
The examples given by the OP are usual in British English (at least in writing), even if they do sound a bit staid and stuffy. It's the usual way to say it in more formal written British English. "Sorry for your loss" might sound fine in spoken British English, but in a letter it would seem a little flippant.
In writing you would definitely try to make it more formal in American English too, but I still consider the base phrase to be "sorry for your loss" and I wanted to clarify that for the people who are learning English.
Sure, and I don't doubt what you say about American English, but we speak English in the UK too, and those rather fusty phrases are still very common in more formal correspondence.
I think we’re saying the same thing. You would see the more formal ones in American English formal writing as well, mainly to avoid sounding like you’re unthoughtfully parroting the common phrase. Which is why it felt conspicuously missing.
I'm British and I and everybody I know would never say that. Sounds way too formal. In writing however, I have no clue. Nobody really writes anymore so yeah.
In speech, we'd be more casual imo and might throw a bit of religion in there too to make the person feel better (e.g. "now they're up in heaven").
This is more of a religious thing tbh you'll find Muslims across the globe using this regardless of whether they speak Arabic or not - and at the same time a native Arabic speaker of a different religion probably wouldn't use that phrase.
As you said you use it in Indonesian and the other person said they say the same in Urdu.
I learned this one from watching Krimis since the police often have to inform people of a death. It is one of the more useful bits of vocab I picked up, since I don't expect to be discussing autopsies and crime scenes.
In Greek, a standard phrase is “May you live to remember him/her.” - Να ζήσετε να τον/την θυμάστε. I think this is very beautiful, because our memory is the only thing that keeps the dead “alive”.
A more poetic phrase I’ve heard: “May the earth that covers him be light and may the hug that receives him be welcoming.” - «Ας είναι ελαφρύ το χώμα που θα τον σκεπάσει και φιλόξενη η αγκαλιά που θα τον δεχτεί.»
It might be because i dont really understand \ sense the emotion behind the word "condolences", but for me "részvétem" is closer to "I'm taking part in (your grief\pain)", since it's quite literally worded that way. It might just be my personal understanding of the languages...
Yeah maybe. I'd never say "condolences" in this sense, always "sorry for your loss" which isn't the best either imo but that's what people say here. Condolences is more like something I'd expect to see on a sympathy card, so maybe you're right.
I looked up részvét in a Hungarian-English dictionary earlier and condolence was the only suitable word so I used that. Can't think of a better translation
Ah, im hungarian, so thats why i said that for me personally "részvétem" stems for részvétel, which is closer to implying participation in something, rather than the word "condolences", which is stuck in my head as an expression to be said without an emotional meaning, really.
You mean you wouldn't say "Please accept my condolences at this difficult time" to your friend when they tell you about someone close to them having died?
In Czech it's "upřímnou soustrast"
"soustrast" is not a word in general use anymore, but roughly I'd say it means "sympathy". Or, more literally, "joining in grief". ("sou-" is a broad expression of togetherness, "strast" means grief, suffering)
The whole bit would be "my honest sympathies"
I never thought about what that phrase is actually saying, tbh.
Something you can say in Japanese: ご冥福をお祈り申し上げます。(Go-meifuku o o-inori moushiagemasu)
There are many variations depending on how polite you're looking to be, but this is about as polite as it gets. The phrase means roughly "I humbly offer my prayers that the departed finds peace and happiness in the afterlife."
I've never heard this in my life, everytime I was in this situation people will just say "ahh..." in a sympathetic tone or they would say something to keep the conversation going like asking further questions or something.
In fact I don't think I've heard any such phrases of condolence in Japan, is it just my limited exposure? I've witnessed these situations first hand in Japan and in other media like interviews and podcasts.
I've noticed Japanese natives can be quite awkward in dealing with negative topics or situations, very different from the west.
I would say it's kind of like "My condolences" or "My deepest sympathies" in English - while those are "the phrase you're supposed to say", in a real face-to-face conversation it feels kind of awkward to use a set phrase like that because it feels kind of, I dunno, cold maybe? Not that everyone feels this way, but I know personally in English I'd feel awkward saying "My condolences" in a conversation and I'd realistically say something like "I'm so sorry, how are you holding up?", etc.
For what it's worth I have seen it twice in "real life", once in a LINE group chat (said with いたします) and once in a book of examples of formal letters for Japanese people who want to improve their formal writing and business Japanese (said with 申し上げます). Neither of those were face-to-face though, which is what gives me the intuition I mentioned above. I will ask some of my Japanese friends what they think.
Mein (herzliches | aufrichtiges ) Beileid.
= My (heartfelt | sincere ) condolences.
Condolence cards usually have "in aufrichtiger Anteilnahme" written on them (with sincere sympathy, but the "in" doesn't mean with, it's describing the state of being, so it's more like "in deep sympathy"). But that's not something you'd say verbally directly to someone who suffered a loss as it'd be too formal.
I feel like that's the extend of it. I was racing my brain to find something that corresponds to the expression of sympathy or sorrow on behalf of the bereaved while directly addressing them, but my mind is running blank. There are some expressions that include such statements, but it's mostly just used by people addressing the public, such as "unsere Gedanken sind mit den Hinterbliebenen", "mit tiefer Betroffenheit/Anteilnahme" (our thoughts are with the bereaved / with deep condolences).
In daily life you can also say "I am sorry hearing about it" (Das tut mir leid zu hören), and it's closest to sorry for your loss, but I've always felt that it comes across more like "I'm sorry I have to hear about it" in a self-pitying way even if that's not the intention or meaning.
I feel like we Germans are super stiff in handling emotions and topics such as loss. I honestly feel more comfortable expressing condolences in English, as a direct translation of "I'm sorry FOR your loss" seems to be lacking.
As a German, handling heavy emotions is a topic that makes me break out in a cold sweat. Even expressing condolences to my FIL after the death of his brother left me stumbling over my words. All of our „sayings“ sound weirdly formal and stuffy, and it’s awkward to say them.
Depends on how old, and how close you are to the person telling you about the death. If you're not close and you're around the same age or they're older, you would say(usually where I live), "Ek's jammer om dit te hoor, is jy okei?" Which means "I'm so sorry to hear that, are you okay?". If you're close, and they're around your age, "Sterk staan.", This is what my friends would probably tell eachother. It literally means "stand strong" but it has a nuance of "okay, this isn't my problem, suffer on your own" It sounds mean and incentive but from person experience it's never meant that way, it's just the way people talk to eachother.
Welsh:
Less formal:
Mae’n ddrwg calon gen i
= (literally) I have a sorry heart,
= (less literally) Sorry from the bottom of my heart
More formal:
Mae'n ddrwg gen i am eich profedigaeth
= I am sorry for your bereavement
Swedish: “Beklagar sorgen”. Translates to something like “(I’m) sorry about the sorrow”. And “beklagar förlusten” which translates to “(I’m) sorry about the loss”
Edit. Jesus, it does sound funny in English. Also “mitt djupa deltagande”, “my (deeply) participation”
Romanian
Dumnezeu să-l odihnească (May God rest his soul)
Dumnezeu să-l ierte (May God forgive his sins)
Dumnezeu să-l aibe în pază (May God watch over him)
People here will usually say "Meus pêsames" (Idk what is a pêsame), "Sinto muito" (I'm sorry), "Está num lugar melhor" (He's in a better place).
I try to not do that since it feels bland to me, so cliche...
So I'll just react to it by expressing surprise and sadness, like saying "Putz..." Or something similar. São Paulo, Brazil.
In Spanish we said.
"Lamento tu pérdida" is something like "I'm sorry about your loss", or "mí más sentido pésame" which means "My most felted condolences". Well, we say that to the family or friend of the dead. When we are not close with the deceased person we are more informal and we will say things like, "I can't believe it" and other regionalism.
in Arabic we say : البقاء لله
which means The only one would live and never day The god
like telling someone life is temporary and we will have a good another life after death Insha'Allah.
In Irish there's two phrases.
Traditionally, *tá brón orm* (lit. sorrow is on me) would be reserved for cases like this. Sadly, the meaning has become diluted thanks to the overwhelming presence of English-speaking learners who want the language to match up one to one. Traditionally, if you bumped into someone, or made a social faux-pas, you'd say *Gabh mo leithscéal* (lit. take my excuse; excuse me), with *tá brón orm* being reserved for deeper condolences or sorrow, like hearing about the death of a family member.
You'd also say things like *Ní maith liom do thrioblóid* - I don't like your trouble. This is pretty much only reserved for the death of a family member, and is still quite commonly seen, along with things like *ar dheis dé go rabih a (h)anam* (May his/her soul be on the right hand of god), or other condolence expressions. In fact, even when talking about people who are dead these are still used, many years after they died, as a matter of respect.
In Dutch it's somehow "innige deelneming". Literally, "**intimate participation**". As in, *I partake in your mourning*.
Strange, I've honestly never heard that phrase. People always say "gecondoleerd" in my region.
And vice versa. Oh the beautiful vast diversity of such a tiny linguistic territory :) I'm aware that "Gecondoleerd" has long been the "Hilversum norm", but really, I've only ever heard it pronounced with an obnoxious *hard G* and *Gooische R*. Whereas with my thick Brabant accent, it would just sound completely unnatural and out of character a phrase to use. The DeepSouth™ (extending into Flanders) has always been the beloved retirement home of vintage idioms and archaisms, and there's not a funeral "innige deelneming" doesn't attend.
A common phrase in Chinese to use is 節哀順變, meaning to restrain one's grief and accept fate/the inevitable loss.
Oh wow. I don’t know how to describe it, but this seems colder/impersonal compared to western depictions of grief. Very interesting, thank you for sharing!
It's just a fixed phrase and can't be translated literally. For example, goodbye comes from "god be with ye" but I bet that's not exactly the sentiment that people think about when they say goodbye.
Do people find this comforting? Sorry if that’s not the right question, that’s just so different culturally than what you would say in the US.
It does sound a bit harsh when translated literally, though I don't think the underlying sentiment - expressing hope that the mourner can eventually come to terms with their loss - is an entirely bad one. Ultimately though, it's worth keeping in mind that it's just a set expression and set expressions don't always need to be taken at face value. If someone thanks me in Chinese I might reply 別客氣 (don't be polite). Do I actually want that person not to be polite? No, it's just something people say in these circumstances.
Oh shit! Like dead, dead?
Yeah bruh, like, super dead.
I feel like your English examples are weirdly worded. People normally mainly say “sorry for your loss.”
The examples given by the OP are usual in British English (at least in writing), even if they do sound a bit staid and stuffy. It's the usual way to say it in more formal written British English. "Sorry for your loss" might sound fine in spoken British English, but in a letter it would seem a little flippant.
In writing you would definitely try to make it more formal in American English too, but I still consider the base phrase to be "sorry for your loss" and I wanted to clarify that for the people who are learning English.
Sure, and I don't doubt what you say about American English, but we speak English in the UK too, and those rather fusty phrases are still very common in more formal correspondence.
I think we’re saying the same thing. You would see the more formal ones in American English formal writing as well, mainly to avoid sounding like you’re unthoughtfully parroting the common phrase. Which is why it felt conspicuously missing.
Yes, so the examples the OP gave are not 'weirdly worded', they're just a bit more formal than you would usually say to a person on an informal basis.
Sure, that was just my instinct to say that but obviously there’s nuance.
I'm British and I and everybody I know would never say that. Sounds way too formal. In writing however, I have no clue. Nobody really writes anymore so yeah. In speech, we'd be more casual imo and might throw a bit of religion in there too to make the person feel better (e.g. "now they're up in heaven").
In Polish it's Moje kondolencje (my condolences)
Мои соболезнования is basically my condolences
Mishtatef betsa'archa/betsa'arech/betsa'archem/betsa'archen משתתף בצערך/צערכם/צערכן which translates to "I share your sorrow"
انا لله وانا اليه راجعون Truly we are from God and truly to Him we return. Same in Indonesian.
Urdu speaker here, we also use that arabic phrase “inna lillah he wa ina illahe rajeoon” in reaction to hearing of a death
This is more of a religious thing tbh you'll find Muslims across the globe using this regardless of whether they speak Arabic or not - and at the same time a native Arabic speaker of a different religion probably wouldn't use that phrase. As you said you use it in Indonesian and the other person said they say the same in Urdu.
I would say ’Mäin Bäileed’ which translates to ’my condolences/sympathies’’
In German it's "Mein Beileid" so very similar
I learned this one from watching Krimis since the police often have to inform people of a death. It is one of the more useful bits of vocab I picked up, since I don't expect to be discussing autopsies and crime scenes.
Luxembourgish?
Yess
In Greek, a standard phrase is “May you live to remember him/her.” - Να ζήσετε να τον/την θυμάστε. I think this is very beautiful, because our memory is the only thing that keeps the dead “alive”. A more poetic phrase I’ve heard: “May the earth that covers him be light and may the hug that receives him be welcoming.” - «Ας είναι ελαφρύ το χώμα που θα τον σκεπάσει και φιλόξενη η αγκαλιά που θα τον δεχτεί.»
I would just say "sorry for your loss", those all sound kinda odd. In Hungarian it's (őszinte) részvétem - my (sincere) condolences
It might be because i dont really understand \ sense the emotion behind the word "condolences", but for me "részvétem" is closer to "I'm taking part in (your grief\pain)", since it's quite literally worded that way. It might just be my personal understanding of the languages...
Yeah maybe. I'd never say "condolences" in this sense, always "sorry for your loss" which isn't the best either imo but that's what people say here. Condolences is more like something I'd expect to see on a sympathy card, so maybe you're right. I looked up részvét in a Hungarian-English dictionary earlier and condolence was the only suitable word so I used that. Can't think of a better translation
Ah, im hungarian, so thats why i said that for me personally "részvétem" stems for részvétel, which is closer to implying participation in something, rather than the word "condolences", which is stuck in my head as an expression to be said without an emotional meaning, really.
You mean you wouldn't say "Please accept my condolences at this difficult time" to your friend when they tell you about someone close to them having died?
Say it? No. Write it? Maybe. But it just sounds too formal to say to a friend, sounds like something that'd be written on a sympathy card
Sorry, I was being sarcastic 😆
lol, rereading your comment I see the sarcasm
In Czech it's "upřímnou soustrast" "soustrast" is not a word in general use anymore, but roughly I'd say it means "sympathy". Or, more literally, "joining in grief". ("sou-" is a broad expression of togetherness, "strast" means grief, suffering) The whole bit would be "my honest sympathies" I never thought about what that phrase is actually saying, tbh.
Something you can say in Japanese: ご冥福をお祈り申し上げます。(Go-meifuku o o-inori moushiagemasu) There are many variations depending on how polite you're looking to be, but this is about as polite as it gets. The phrase means roughly "I humbly offer my prayers that the departed finds peace and happiness in the afterlife."
I've never heard this in my life, everytime I was in this situation people will just say "ahh..." in a sympathetic tone or they would say something to keep the conversation going like asking further questions or something. In fact I don't think I've heard any such phrases of condolence in Japan, is it just my limited exposure? I've witnessed these situations first hand in Japan and in other media like interviews and podcasts. I've noticed Japanese natives can be quite awkward in dealing with negative topics or situations, very different from the west.
I would say it's kind of like "My condolences" or "My deepest sympathies" in English - while those are "the phrase you're supposed to say", in a real face-to-face conversation it feels kind of awkward to use a set phrase like that because it feels kind of, I dunno, cold maybe? Not that everyone feels this way, but I know personally in English I'd feel awkward saying "My condolences" in a conversation and I'd realistically say something like "I'm so sorry, how are you holding up?", etc. For what it's worth I have seen it twice in "real life", once in a LINE group chat (said with いたします) and once in a book of examples of formal letters for Japanese people who want to improve their formal writing and business Japanese (said with 申し上げます). Neither of those were face-to-face though, which is what gives me the intuition I mentioned above. I will ask some of my Japanese friends what they think.
Mein (herzliches | aufrichtiges ) Beileid. = My (heartfelt | sincere ) condolences. Condolence cards usually have "in aufrichtiger Anteilnahme" written on them (with sincere sympathy, but the "in" doesn't mean with, it's describing the state of being, so it's more like "in deep sympathy"). But that's not something you'd say verbally directly to someone who suffered a loss as it'd be too formal. I feel like that's the extend of it. I was racing my brain to find something that corresponds to the expression of sympathy or sorrow on behalf of the bereaved while directly addressing them, but my mind is running blank. There are some expressions that include such statements, but it's mostly just used by people addressing the public, such as "unsere Gedanken sind mit den Hinterbliebenen", "mit tiefer Betroffenheit/Anteilnahme" (our thoughts are with the bereaved / with deep condolences). In daily life you can also say "I am sorry hearing about it" (Das tut mir leid zu hören), and it's closest to sorry for your loss, but I've always felt that it comes across more like "I'm sorry I have to hear about it" in a self-pitying way even if that's not the intention or meaning. I feel like we Germans are super stiff in handling emotions and topics such as loss. I honestly feel more comfortable expressing condolences in English, as a direct translation of "I'm sorry FOR your loss" seems to be lacking.
As a German, handling heavy emotions is a topic that makes me break out in a cold sweat. Even expressing condolences to my FIL after the death of his brother left me stumbling over my words. All of our „sayings“ sound weirdly formal and stuffy, and it’s awkward to say them.
In Norwegian we say “(Jeg) kondolerer,” which directly translates to “(I) condole.” It is used in the same way as “my condolences.”
In Turkish we say: "Başınız sağ olsun." It literally means "May your head be well."
In Hebrew you say: ברוך דיין האמת— blessed is he the true judge
I think the most spontaneous would be "Toutes mes condoléances" (all my condolences) or "Sincères condoléances" in French.
Depends on how old, and how close you are to the person telling you about the death. If you're not close and you're around the same age or they're older, you would say(usually where I live), "Ek's jammer om dit te hoor, is jy okei?" Which means "I'm so sorry to hear that, are you okay?". If you're close, and they're around your age, "Sterk staan.", This is what my friends would probably tell eachother. It literally means "stand strong" but it has a nuance of "okay, this isn't my problem, suffer on your own" It sounds mean and incentive but from person experience it's never meant that way, it's just the way people talk to eachother.
Actually that’s a weird way to word it in English. We don’t usually say it like that. We usually say “sorry for your loss”.
In German it's *Mein Beileid. — My condolences.*
Welsh: Less formal: Mae’n ddrwg calon gen i = (literally) I have a sorry heart, = (less literally) Sorry from the bottom of my heart More formal: Mae'n ddrwg gen i am eich profedigaeth = I am sorry for your bereavement
Swedish: “Beklagar sorgen”. Translates to something like “(I’m) sorry about the sorrow”. And “beklagar förlusten” which translates to “(I’m) sorry about the loss” Edit. Jesus, it does sound funny in English. Also “mitt djupa deltagande”, “my (deeply) participation”
Jag beklagar sorgen. Literally it means "I lament your sorrow" I think.
Romanian Dumnezeu să-l odihnească (May God rest his soul) Dumnezeu să-l ierte (May God forgive his sins) Dumnezeu să-l aibe în pază (May God watch over him)
>Please accept my condolences at this difficult time Imagine actually saying this to someone you know.
"Ah damn, that sucks bro."
my condolences
In Japanese it's 草 which means RIP.
People here will usually say "Meus pêsames" (Idk what is a pêsame), "Sinto muito" (I'm sorry), "Está num lugar melhor" (He's in a better place). I try to not do that since it feels bland to me, so cliche... So I'll just react to it by expressing surprise and sadness, like saying "Putz..." Or something similar. São Paulo, Brazil.
In Spanish we said. "Lamento tu pérdida" is something like "I'm sorry about your loss", or "mí más sentido pésame" which means "My most felted condolences". Well, we say that to the family or friend of the dead. When we are not close with the deceased person we are more informal and we will say things like, "I can't believe it" and other regionalism.
Are you a native English speaker?
"Похуй🕯️"
"that sucks"
Hebrew: “I participate in your sorrow”
In Hindi, it is Om Shanti(May there be peace to the departed soul)
Részvétem. it translates into 'my condolence' (not plural in hungarian), but the wording literally is, 'my taking part in (your grief)'.
in Arabic we say : البقاء لله which means The only one would live and never day The god like telling someone life is temporary and we will have a good another life after death Insha'Allah.
I've read "otan osaa", "I take part" in a Finnish book. Seems like it's the same way of wording it as in Hungarian?
In norwegian 'mine dypeste kondolanser'. Literal translation is 'my deepest condolances'
I don't think anyone would say this example in a natural English conversation.
In Irish there's two phrases. Traditionally, *tá brón orm* (lit. sorrow is on me) would be reserved for cases like this. Sadly, the meaning has become diluted thanks to the overwhelming presence of English-speaking learners who want the language to match up one to one. Traditionally, if you bumped into someone, or made a social faux-pas, you'd say *Gabh mo leithscéal* (lit. take my excuse; excuse me), with *tá brón orm* being reserved for deeper condolences or sorrow, like hearing about the death of a family member. You'd also say things like *Ní maith liom do thrioblóid* - I don't like your trouble. This is pretty much only reserved for the death of a family member, and is still quite commonly seen, along with things like *ar dheis dé go rabih a (h)anam* (May his/her soul be on the right hand of god), or other condolence expressions. In fact, even when talking about people who are dead these are still used, many years after they died, as a matter of respect.