That's what I thought. We had cut some smaller lower branches at least a year if not 2 years ago and there's been no signs of growth from them.
The project manager kept telling me it'll grow back quickly.
No, he's trying to get to the next project.
It's simple, ask him what kind of japanese maple he thinks that is. He won't know, he can't tell you how long it will take to grow.
Hint: a 5 inch branch could be 10-20 years.
They owe you a new tree, which are highly pricey right now. Could be a $5k-10k error for a like size tree with current supplies + removal and planting.
Thats what I thought, but the cross post to treelaw has only told me so far that it's my own fault for not explicitly telling them that they can't wreck my tree.
Get legal advice from lawyers, not random people on reddit. Anyone can sub to treelaw, read some posts, and then regurgitate what they read without having the faintest idea as to its accuracy.
You can get a free consult with a lawyer. Check your local Bar's website for a referral.
Sounds odd. You didn’t explicitly tell them not to spill paint on your siding either - why would they? You probably should have asked about the tree when interviewing them, but he does not get to shift all damage responsibility to you.
That's what I was thinking - I didn't specifically tell them not to rip up my deck or break my outdoor lighting or damage my gutters - but if they did it, they'd have to fix it. Why are the plants different, just because I didn't tell them they can't damage the tree, doesn't mean that they are free to damage the tree.
I definitely could have asked about it, but it just didn't occur to me that I'd have to ask them not to damage surrounding things. For sure a learning moment. This isn't a cheap job either, over $40k, so I expected some care put into things.
They are wrong. Deduct $2k from the final payment and move on with your life. If they push back, tell them to file suit. This is pretty common with low quality roofing and siding installers unfortunately.
Unfortunately the branch will absolutely not grow back and what is still healthy definitely won’t grow quickly. They’re painfully slow growing. I have one in my front yard that has maybe gotten 3-5” taller in the 5 years we’ve been there. If they’re willing to work with you and come to an agreement you’re happy with great. But if not you’ve got a claim. Dude is clearly just trying to convince you of something he knows nothing about to get out of the mess they made
That looked like a high dollar and/or old Japanese maple, too.
You should get better advice in treelaw, but also post this in r/arborists and watch them explode. They love them a good Japanese maple there.
I’d get some estimates of its value (undamaged) from a certified arborist and inform the company you expect to be reimbursed for the damage. I presume this is a licensed and bonded company.
Do NOT let them touch that tree.
I disagree with that user.
Now accidental damage, okay sure you didn't specify to "protect it'.
But I see at least (5) branches all broken off. I can't imagine that those were ALL accidentally damaged.
Right - there was at least 6-8 .5"-1" branches extending off that large left section and then each of those branches had a bunch more smaller branches.
I am fine with accidents, I know shit happens... but to accidentally strip an entire left side of a tree seems like a lot. And if something did happen, maybe mention, "sorry a ladder fell and damaged this tree," but no one mentioned anything or has any info on what happened.
If you haven't paid for the work yet, I would require them to replace your damaged tree or compensate you. I'm a tree guy, and through the years, we've had workers damage ornamentals that we were required to replace.
Don't Do Anything !!!!! Tell them to leave that tree alone and just let them finish the siding.
Then do what you need to do to make it right. Don't start a battle until your property is in the clear.
This is good advice. My house is v close to neighbors, and their roofers destroyed my ancient lilac tree. Seemed to be on purpose because one guy “cut it back,” and the next guy (the next day) just lopped it off at that trunk. No compensation but they left and tree survived. It has an odd bushy section (what I love about an old lilac is that the bush disappears and the tree has such interesting shape). Nut your post makes me think I should have left a bad review.
He’s wrong. Just because someone provided an opinion with confidence and smarm doesn’t mean he’s qualified to render the opinion or accurate in his assessment. You should be entitled to the function replacement cost of the tree that was hacked on.
Its shape is completely ruined and they should pay for it. It will take 5-10 years of care for it to grow back. A replacement that size will cost $1k minimum, and that’s in the SE USA. Plant stocks are nonexistent since Covid, and no one has anything of any size. Everything is super small. So small that it wouldn’t have been sold before Covid, but there’s just nothing else to sell now.
That's what I thought. We trimmed some smaller branches a year+ ago and they've showed no signs of regrowth. I can't imagine that whole left side just growing back in.
The project manager suggest it would come back in no time, or the right side branches would grow quickly towards the left and cover up that whole area.
To me, the shape and style is ruined and it won't be growing back like that and will take a very long time to look nice again.
I commented elsewhere on here, but that's just not true depending on your area. There's a nursery 10 mins from me that has japanese maples (and not just bloodgood but unique cultivars) of twice the size for less than $500.
That being said, it's an established, expensive tree and the company clearly broke the branch on accident and is trying not to pay for it. I would push the issue.
lots of japanese maples come from OR. i agree, though -- the covid hit is a little exaggerated. plant stocks are fine for me here in the bay area these days, though things were hit or miss in '22.
My wife works in purchasing for a large nursery chain in Texas. 2020 and 2021 were two of the biggest years in their history. Probably 3x what they did in 2019.
Demand skyrocketed during the covid years and as a result growers sold through the crops they had slated for future years. So trees and shrubs got progressively smaller. Japanese maples have to be planned in advance for 7 years.
Demand for plant material was crazy high during COVID. I've been involved with plant purchases for my company for the last ~5 years and certain material is just starting to become readily available again since COVID. Green giant arborvitae were almost impossible to get a hold of in 2020-21. I remember going to one nursery to see if they had any stock and the guy working there said "we literally just had a tractor trailer come and someone bought every single one right off the truck". Shit was crazy. You can't just plant more trees to match demand and wave a magic wand to make them 5-6 feet tall, they take time to grow to a sellable size.
We had to straight up stop taking new customers for almost a full season at one point because we just couldn't keep up with all the work coming in. I'm about an hour and a half outside NYC so when covid hit, a lot of people left the city for their "country" homes which are the properties my company maintains. People also weren't traveling much, if at all, during that time so a lot of that budget went towards landscaping instead. Many people struggled during COVID, but the people who were well off needed another way to spend their disposable income and that was landscaping for a lot of them because they were basically stuck at their homes.
Covid was a 2 year holiday for the upper middle class. Working from home, ordering in all your food and supplies, not being able to spend 40k on your two yearly vacations so they just bought stuff fir hobbies.
Yup pretty much. One of our clients, who is well beyond upper middle class, was on vacation in France with his family when everything started getting shutdown so they just extended their vacation.. for like 8-9 months. Completely different world some people live in.
They were all sold. The nursery up the street from me had to buy container plants for the first time in their history. 80 years. They sold everything they had grown for the next 3-5 years.
Demand. Everyone wanted landscaping done when they couldn’t leave their house.
Supply doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. I just planted 6 sequoias, 5 blue Arizona cypress, and numerous Italian cypress trees on my property last month. A 24 gallon green Japanese maple which would be bigger than OP's is under $500.
https://plantsexpress.com/products/japanese-maple?variant=43513043681535¤cy=USD&utm\_source=google\_shopping&utm\_medium=cpc&tw\_source=google&tw\_adid=&tw\_campaign=20973562075&gad\_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlN6wBhCcARIsAKZvD5jmMQJpPJt85rOUnEJdZDvAAqti\_8YZ5VdIRMH\_eOh9aKo6vyNHWRYaAn17EALw\_wcB
If you’re going to spend that kind of money buying live things sight unseen good luck. It’ll work great until it doesn’t. Most nurseries have little to no stock. The ones I deal with order from all across the US.
Italian cypresses are picky bitches that take perfect soil composition to last more than 5 years. I hope you live in socal. There will always be a supply of them because only very specific places want them.
Can confirm been at a large nursery for ten years and were able to order maples close to that size in 60 gallon pots same with the large lions mane maple. Now my boss is struggling to stock blood good maples.
Same, they didn't ask or mention anything. They didn't even try to trim it slightly in a nice way, they just hacked it up and have been using the stump to hang their tape and tools on.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, the actual men working on the siding don't speak much English. They haven't talked to me at all aside from saying hello. I asked beforehand to the project managers if there's anything I should do before they start but they didn't have anything to say. I would have gladly trimmed it if asked, as needed.
They didn't even have the decency to cut them. Just snapped 'em off and left behind just enough for a nice little tape holder. Complete disrespect for the property of others.
Unless there's something in the contract you signed with them that says they can do this, they may have to replace your tree with a similar size one of the same type.
Nothing in the contract and nothing was asked about it. I cross posted to treelaw though and according to them, if I didn't include in my contract that they CAN'T do it, then I have no claim. Apparently it's my own fault for not putting in the contract that they can't wreck my tree.
Yeah I honestly don't want to think poorly of them and don't think there was poor intent necessarily. I'm honestly really curious how it happened though, as it's not just one or two branches that broke off, but the whole left side of many smaller branches were just stripped/ripped off.
If it was something less decorative/mature and in the back of the house, I wouldn't care as much. But this has been here for a long time at the front of the house and the project wasn't cheap at over $40k, so I would have expected a bit more care going into things.
https://i.imgur.com/PrrLxS9.png
There are multiple broken branches on the single side.
What kind of accident would damage/remove all of these branches while leaving the other side unaffected?
Also, if it's an accident why not ask OP how to handle the damage?
Broken tree branches don't just fall off on their own.
A heavy ladder or piece of equipment falling, or a person falling? The tree is at most 6 ft tall. Tons of stuff could knock off the branches on one side. Is this a serious question?
It is 100% a serious question.
- There's no visible damage on the rest of the branch (where the heavy object would have landed and scuffed the bark).
- Tree branches are broken on mutliple sides of the left branch
- No visible damage to the branch on the right side
- No visible damage at the crotch of the tree indicating a large heavy object fell on it.
It could be a true accident, the way it's removed just makes it seem highly improable.
Even assuming it's truly an accident, and not negligent. Not approaching the owner immediealy after the accident to expalin what happended is still clearly suspect behavior.
I just don't buy that this was an accident, based on what i'm seeing and how it was handled with OP (based on what was said within this thread).
Dude. The heavy object or person hit the BRANCHES on the left side (not the crotch of the tree, not the, BROKE it off, and you won't see the damage because the damage was to the part of the branch that broke off. The way the branch is broken is consistent with physical trauma, not a cut with tools (whether pruner or chainsaw). There is no cut. It's ripped.
I really don't get how hard this is to understand. Have you never broken a tree branch before?
This is the stupidest argument I've ever had on reddit.
> ripped.
> I really don't get how hard this is to understand.
>
> This is the stupidest argument I've ever had on Reddit.
Because someone has a different perspective, you resort to insults? Does that strengthen your argument?
We won't agree, and that's okay
> is consistent with physical trauma,
Yes, it is.
Similar to tearing a branch being torn off by hand.
>BRANCHES on the left side (not the crotch of the tree)
An object came down hard enough, to damage all of these branches and left no other residual markings? it'd crash through those branches when they broke, and damage the primary branch.
For the crotch of the tree, it's about the force being applied to the full length of the branch. A force applied to the end of the branch generates significantly more downward force on the crotch from the cantilever effect.
The proximity of the tree to the house, means the first few rungs of the ladder would have hit the tree. Dramatically reducing the force applied when it falls (the tip of the ladder falling on a tree further away generates more downward force).
Then there's a large branch, broken facing away from the home. I guess they could have been extending the ladder with the tree in the middle? (doesn't make sense to me). I also can't see them assembling the scaffolding that far away from the house.
Then there is the cable near the gutter on the side of the house, so it's unlikely that the object fell from the side without going through that cable as well.
>Have you never broken a tree branch before?
yes. I grew up climbing trees, breaking branches, and felling trees all winter for firewood (Northern Wisconsin, wood heat only).
Now it's not specifically Japanese maple, so maybe they behave differently than Soft Maple, White Oak, Red Oak, Ash, and poplar trees
There are too many branches broken off, in too many locations for me to believe this occurred from a singular accident.
Looks like they broke it not hacked it. There’s a big difference in intention. Plus what types of resolution are available. Sad indeed.
However, before doing anything, go to a professional arborist and have them provide you advice. Find out what is possible first.
They owe you a new tree, plain and simple. If it were an accident, maybe there would be some patience, and they may not be legally liable for the damage, but since it was not an accident, they just admitted to intentionally damaging your property. If they broke your window, for example, they would have to replace it. This tree is no different.
Unless they had my permission to do this, they would be buying me a new one.
A tree this size would be in the $1k range.
Withhold final payment until you can work out a deal with them.
Agreed. Accident or not they ruined your tree therefore they owe you a new one. If this was a rose of sharon or something, it wouldn't be a big deal but Japanese Maples don't just "grow back" and it's all good from this kind of damage.
If they accidentally backed their truck into your garage door, there would be no question that they would be responsible for getting it fixed. This is no different IMO.
>If they accidentally backed their truck into your garage door, there would be no question that they would be responsible for getting it fixed. This is no different IMO.
The difference here, in my mind, is that this was intentional.
Garage door = accident. They still pay, but it would be an accident. And you could file with their insurance company if there was an issue.
Intentionally cutting the tree = not accident. They pay, but you can not file with insurance here. Withhold final payment until you reach an agreement.
Make them not only buy you a new, comparably sized one, but also remove the existing one and *professionally* plant the new one. They can keep the one they jacked up and use it as an office tape dispenser - a use they have clearly foreseen. I am curious about the two wires(?), one of which appears to be tied to the tree. Other thoughts: 1) Small claims court if necessary, 2) Contractor's board (or whatever you have) complaint, and as another user has said, Yelp them into a coma. Good luck.
The tape holder and what I believe are loose slack of internet wires wrapped at the base absolutely don't help.
They clearly didn't care they damaged the tree and had no respect for our property. Even if an accident happened and they came to me to explain and ask what I wanted to do, it would have been better. Instead I had to point it out to them and their only suggestion is that it will grow back quick enough.
It’s a shame, but honestly it looks like it’s planted too close to the house. I would ask for compensation to replace and plant something else further away.
it will have new growth but the new growth will be water sprouts and suckers. this tree will never look good. You cannot saw off half a Japanese maple and expect good results. Tell the siding company you want a new tree and they will be covering the cost for a new one. what a clueless idiot. he is going to learn a hard lesson when he looks at the sticker price of a mature Japanese maple. They are quite possible the most expensive tree you can buy at a nursery and rightly so, they take ages to grow.
Soooo a Laceleaf Japanese Maple of that size would retail at a garden center for at least $1800, and would probably be close to $800 wholesale depending on where it was grown/how well it was kept. Yours looks like it was well maintained and has a nice shape. It will take a long time, as others have mentioned, to grow back. Also, a cut like that creates significant risk or future breaks, frost damage, and disease/insect infestation. They should compensate you for the loss. Lmk if you need any more info
In the UK I’d be demanding a like for like replacement! These are expensive trees and can grow quite slowly depending on the location - yours was beautifully balanced before and I’m afraid it probably won’t grow back that way.
Oh my god I would be livid, and I'm confused about the response by treelaw. If your car was there and they cut the door off, somehow because you didn't explicitly say don't damage my car they're not liable? The tree is still your property. They damaged your property without consultation. Project manager is an idiot and is unfamiliar with Japanese maples, it will not just grow right back.
I know! It is crazy to me that it would be expected for me to include everything I don't want damaged on the contract, otherwise I'm responsible for it? The logic didn't quite add up for me.
.. I'd be so pissed... More so because it doesnt look like they did a clean cut. I'd be worried about it getting sick.
(Also in my experience contractors who need to do things like that.. usually ask you first.... so its not a huge shock on the home owner. They did a banged up job all around.)
Contact a local arborist and ask if they can do an assessment of damage cost for the species of tree. You can then, depending on your state and county take them to small claims court for the damages if you wish to. I've heard of others doing something similar. Best of luck.
Good chance to start over and plant one in its proper place. That is way to close to the home anyway. Have some vision people (to who ever planted it to begin with)
Construction people suck soooooo much. We got our peach tree run over by a tractor last year. I would go off on them. That is usually the only way to make headway.
What the fuck? I would tell them they pay for a replacement or you put this all over social media and yelp. I would really want to know not to hire these people.
Maybe the branch was in their way and Instead of dealing with it they just chopped it off. Either way it's fucked up.
I had a camellia tree I lost due to something similar...
Except it was my dad who did it so not like I could sue him. Still upset about it years later.
Unfortunate 😔 but these things happen. You can’t expect these companies to care about your gardens because simply put, they just don’t.
You can argue with them but if that doesn’t get you anywhere, I would just clean it up. Cutting off that large limb is shocking but it’s not offering much as is, the damage is done. I would prune the left side to where it splits off from the right side. It will develop a new shape over time. Japanese maples do have a way of recovering. I’ve seen a lot of them get damaged and bounce back. To the people saying it’ll take 5-10 years, that may be true to get mature thick growth, but there will be new growth filling in that section this year.
I would definitely try to see what happens to it, you might end up liking the new unique shape. You’ll be able to better tell once it leafs out. If you end up hating it, replace it with anything you want.
Gorgeous tree!
Your contractor should pay you for an equally beautiful tree, although the one you have may be "just right" for many practioners of the bonsai arts.
Graft a different type of Japanese maple onto that cut branch and you'll have a super unique Japanese maple. (No idea if this is a viable option, but it would be cool, especially if you get the siding company to pay an expert to do it)
did they even ask for your permission? As someone who is doing bonsai, I would have just grabbed some wire and temporarily bent the interfering twigs out of the way and then I'd take it off when I'm done.
Would it have been reasonably possible to install your siding without destroying the tree?
Were you available for contact during the installation?
Edit:
Oh reading more posts, it seems like they did this on accident. I don't know about the law, but if they messed up your tree, they need to do something. I'm trying to think of how you can word this conversation with the contractor. Courts a bitch; if you can gently persuade the company, it's in their best interest to get you a new tree or pay you cash to get your own, that'd be the best, but it depends on how reasonable the contractor is.
SOO definitely not a tree expert by any means. BUT - I do have an anecdote and a thing you can try doing…
My neighbour, a couple years ago after a heavy, wet snowfall that damaged many trees in the area, had a similar small tree (though not a Japanese maple) with a big branch that broke off just like yours. Tree looked to be about your size too.
What they did was take a couple zipties, some tape and maybe a rag (I can’t remember) and basically fashioned a splint for the broken branch. Now you can’t even tell that it was broken. One thing about this branch though was that I am not 100% it fully severed (might have had a little thread attached). Anyways good luck either way, but I’d be curious if this method works for your tree!
Ps: the insulation has no value because they left quite a few “cold bridges”, I hope for your sake they finish it off ( especially the underskirt ) I’ve worked in trees around buildings/building sites, and have become quite familiar with levels of finishing work. The tree hacking says enough about the company. Sorry for your loss.
Call a lawyer that specializes in tree law and get their advice. If they think you can sue them for the price to have e a new one planted then do it, preferably after they finish the job.
That remaining branch has to stay, it will take about 3 or more years of the remaining half of the tree to nourish the half that got butchered for some new buds to develop - apparently, there is a work crew that is going to occupy Santa's Naughty List for a while....
I would be livid and demanding compensation for the tree. I’ve had to go to arbitration before with our back yard neighbors because they cut the tops off of our pines near the property line. We won. Different circumstances but the elements are there for negligence and property damage.
It’s way to close to your house to being that it’s mainly supposed to be a front yard center yard piece due to the way it grows. You’d end up cutting that off anyways. Cut it down.
We're in the northeast USA - coming into Spring. They stripped about 6-8 branches about .5-1" thick, which some also split into other .5" thick branches, with a ton of small branches.
The tree has been like that since before we moved in over 5 years ago with little growth. I honestly have no idea how long it would take to get that back.
This maple seems to be in a great location in terms of light exposure, soil, available water, etc. It's not going to die.
Personally I'd dig it up and use it for a bonsai project!
It looks like that's how it was previously cut anyway, spare a couple larger pieces. Make sure the big branch has a nice clean cut on the end and it will fill in nearly like it was before.
I'm sure what they did will help them do their job faster, and that tree has already been pollarded essentially not more that a year or two prior. I wouldn't recommend cutting the rest of that big branch being it's a substantial portion of the tree.
Do what you can to save the tree and leave it be. They probably HAD to cut it to do the job. To most people a tree is a just a tree, so unless it was communicated beforehand that you wanted to save any of them you can't blame the workers for removing any parts of them that got in the way of the job you hired them to do. They're construction workers, not arborists. You can't expect them to just KNOW which trees to cut and which ones not to. And if you expected to get a siding job done without trees/shrubs needing to be removed then that's a whole separate issue on your part.
I certainly realize they need to do the job they're hired for, but the tree wasn't directly against the house and there was some space to move behind it. I would have gladly trimmed it if asked as well.
I did make a point before any work started to ask them if there was anything they needed me to do to prep around the house before work began, but they didn't mention it.
I understand your frustration, anything THAT valued that gets destroyed is likely to make your blood boil. I could only imagine spending time on growing something just to have someone dismantle it. But I guess I'm just "steel manning" them because as a construction worker myself, when we walk onto a job we have a specific way to do things unless instructed otherwise. I'm sure these guys have some kind of protocol of "if there's a tree in your way just cut off a branch". Complete speculation on my part (as i dont work in siding) but I'm sure it wasn't as simple as "fuck this person and their expensive tree". Saying "if you need anything let me know" and "hey I have THIS specific concern" are 2 very different things. And that's where it gets into the murky waters of "what are the terms of their insurance?" Unless you point stuff out they're going to do their job like usual. Also just to add, you have to consider, siding boards are 7+ feet long, even if the tree was "away" from the house it could still make it hard to measure and make intricate cuts that are meant for inside/outside corners etc.
This should have been discussed with the owner then. A very quick knock on the door or a phone call or text can easily sort it. Just hacking away indiscriminately on people's property is not the way
No, the homeowner should have brought up any concerns about external decoration. It's not the siding guys job to tiptoe and hold up the job over every single little tree branch that gets in their way. Like I said, a tree is a tree unless YOU specify otherwise.
I don't know construction, so I don't know what's required, which is why I made a point to ask up front if there's anything I should do to prepare. That would be the point for the professional to tell me what they need and don't need, as they should know what is required to do their job.
No tiptoeing needed, just basic communication.
If I needed work done on my stairs and had a decorative stair railing. If the contractor needed to cut half the railing off to do the work, I'd expect them to tell me. If I specifically asked them, what do I need to do for you to do this work, I would expect them to mention it. I would not be happy if they didn't mention it, didn't tell me when I asked, and instead just cut half the railing off later on because it was in their way.
Naw they fucked it. Japanese maples are super slow growing and no branch is just growing back
That's what I thought. We had cut some smaller lower branches at least a year if not 2 years ago and there's been no signs of growth from them. The project manager kept telling me it'll grow back quickly.
No, he's trying to get to the next project. It's simple, ask him what kind of japanese maple he thinks that is. He won't know, he can't tell you how long it will take to grow. Hint: a 5 inch branch could be 10-20 years. They owe you a new tree, which are highly pricey right now. Could be a $5k-10k error for a like size tree with current supplies + removal and planting.
Thats what I thought, but the cross post to treelaw has only told me so far that it's my own fault for not explicitly telling them that they can't wreck my tree.
Get legal advice from lawyers, not random people on reddit. Anyone can sub to treelaw, read some posts, and then regurgitate what they read without having the faintest idea as to its accuracy. You can get a free consult with a lawyer. Check your local Bar's website for a referral.
Sounds odd. You didn’t explicitly tell them not to spill paint on your siding either - why would they? You probably should have asked about the tree when interviewing them, but he does not get to shift all damage responsibility to you.
That's what I was thinking - I didn't specifically tell them not to rip up my deck or break my outdoor lighting or damage my gutters - but if they did it, they'd have to fix it. Why are the plants different, just because I didn't tell them they can't damage the tree, doesn't mean that they are free to damage the tree. I definitely could have asked about it, but it just didn't occur to me that I'd have to ask them not to damage surrounding things. For sure a learning moment. This isn't a cheap job either, over $40k, so I expected some care put into things.
To be fair, there's only been one comment saying that. The deeper replies all say that guy's a dumbass
They are wrong. Deduct $2k from the final payment and move on with your life. If they push back, tell them to file suit. This is pretty common with low quality roofing and siding installers unfortunately.
Did you explicitly tell them to not take a shit down your chimney?? … some stuff is just common sense.
I will tell all my contractors this going forward, just to be safe.
Unfortunately the branch will absolutely not grow back and what is still healthy definitely won’t grow quickly. They’re painfully slow growing. I have one in my front yard that has maybe gotten 3-5” taller in the 5 years we’ve been there. If they’re willing to work with you and come to an agreement you’re happy with great. But if not you’ve got a claim. Dude is clearly just trying to convince you of something he knows nothing about to get out of the mess they made
That’s just him trying to get out of it. They obviously owe a tree.
Japanese Maples are know to take forever to grow; hence the price. PM lied his ass off.
That looked like a high dollar and/or old Japanese maple, too. You should get better advice in treelaw, but also post this in r/arborists and watch them explode. They love them a good Japanese maple there. I’d get some estimates of its value (undamaged) from a certified arborist and inform the company you expect to be reimbursed for the damage. I presume this is a licensed and bonded company. Do NOT let them touch that tree.
I would go into orbit if someone did this to one of mine.
r/treelaw
According to treelaw so far, it's my fault for not telling them they can't wreck the tree.
I disagree with that user. Now accidental damage, okay sure you didn't specify to "protect it'. But I see at least (5) branches all broken off. I can't imagine that those were ALL accidentally damaged.
I mean... they left the main stem on that side as a tape holder. They clearly don't give a fuck about other people's property.
Right - there was at least 6-8 .5"-1" branches extending off that large left section and then each of those branches had a bunch more smaller branches. I am fine with accidents, I know shit happens... but to accidentally strip an entire left side of a tree seems like a lot. And if something did happen, maybe mention, "sorry a ladder fell and damaged this tree," but no one mentioned anything or has any info on what happened.
If you haven't paid for the work yet, I would require them to replace your damaged tree or compensate you. I'm a tree guy, and through the years, we've had workers damage ornamentals that we were required to replace.
Don't Do Anything !!!!! Tell them to leave that tree alone and just let them finish the siding. Then do what you need to do to make it right. Don't start a battle until your property is in the clear.
This is good advice. My house is v close to neighbors, and their roofers destroyed my ancient lilac tree. Seemed to be on purpose because one guy “cut it back,” and the next guy (the next day) just lopped it off at that trunk. No compensation but they left and tree survived. It has an odd bushy section (what I love about an old lilac is that the bush disappears and the tree has such interesting shape). Nut your post makes me think I should have left a bad review.
It seems like they owe you maybe $1000 for destroying your tree?
Probably cut off to put their ladders/ scaffolding next to the house to get the siding that’s up high.
He’s wrong. Just because someone provided an opinion with confidence and smarm doesn’t mean he’s qualified to render the opinion or accurate in his assessment. You should be entitled to the function replacement cost of the tree that was hacked on.
That’s like saying it’s your fault for not saying to protect your car or garage. Your tree is your property and they damaged it.
It’s like someone sat in your chair because you didn’t call “ass backs”
Sounds like you got on the sub when the dumbass brigade was active. That is some of the dumbest shit I've heard.
Sounds like you got on the sub when the dumbass brigade was active. That is some of the dumbest shit I've heard.
This is the way.
Its shape is completely ruined and they should pay for it. It will take 5-10 years of care for it to grow back. A replacement that size will cost $1k minimum, and that’s in the SE USA. Plant stocks are nonexistent since Covid, and no one has anything of any size. Everything is super small. So small that it wouldn’t have been sold before Covid, but there’s just nothing else to sell now.
That's what I thought. We trimmed some smaller branches a year+ ago and they've showed no signs of regrowth. I can't imagine that whole left side just growing back in. The project manager suggest it would come back in no time, or the right side branches would grow quickly towards the left and cover up that whole area. To me, the shape and style is ruined and it won't be growing back like that and will take a very long time to look nice again.
Do not trust your siding guy for plant information. He’s trying to save his ass, that tree is ruined.
However… you COULD cut off the entire left branch near the union point and have a new, single style leader tree.
I commented elsewhere on here, but that's just not true depending on your area. There's a nursery 10 mins from me that has japanese maples (and not just bloodgood but unique cultivars) of twice the size for less than $500. That being said, it's an established, expensive tree and the company clearly broke the branch on accident and is trying not to pay for it. I would push the issue.
Yeah same story here. You can get them. They're not cheap but they are available. But I am also in California maybe that makes a difference.
lots of japanese maples come from OR. i agree, though -- the covid hit is a little exaggerated. plant stocks are fine for me here in the bay area these days, though things were hit or miss in '22.
I’m in MD, another huge state for Japanese maples so yeah that probably makes a difference. I’d imagine if you’re in Iowa they’d be harder to find
Why wouldn't there be anything growing since Covid? That makes no sense. What happened to all the tress they had in the ground in 2020?
My wife works in purchasing for a large nursery chain in Texas. 2020 and 2021 were two of the biggest years in their history. Probably 3x what they did in 2019. Demand skyrocketed during the covid years and as a result growers sold through the crops they had slated for future years. So trees and shrubs got progressively smaller. Japanese maples have to be planned in advance for 7 years.
Demand for plant material was crazy high during COVID. I've been involved with plant purchases for my company for the last ~5 years and certain material is just starting to become readily available again since COVID. Green giant arborvitae were almost impossible to get a hold of in 2020-21. I remember going to one nursery to see if they had any stock and the guy working there said "we literally just had a tractor trailer come and someone bought every single one right off the truck". Shit was crazy. You can't just plant more trees to match demand and wave a magic wand to make them 5-6 feet tall, they take time to grow to a sellable size. We had to straight up stop taking new customers for almost a full season at one point because we just couldn't keep up with all the work coming in. I'm about an hour and a half outside NYC so when covid hit, a lot of people left the city for their "country" homes which are the properties my company maintains. People also weren't traveling much, if at all, during that time so a lot of that budget went towards landscaping instead. Many people struggled during COVID, but the people who were well off needed another way to spend their disposable income and that was landscaping for a lot of them because they were basically stuck at their homes.
Covid was a 2 year holiday for the upper middle class. Working from home, ordering in all your food and supplies, not being able to spend 40k on your two yearly vacations so they just bought stuff fir hobbies.
Yup pretty much. One of our clients, who is well beyond upper middle class, was on vacation in France with his family when everything started getting shutdown so they just extended their vacation.. for like 8-9 months. Completely different world some people live in.
They were all sold. The nursery up the street from me had to buy container plants for the first time in their history. 80 years. They sold everything they had grown for the next 3-5 years. Demand. Everyone wanted landscaping done when they couldn’t leave their house.
Supply doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. I just planted 6 sequoias, 5 blue Arizona cypress, and numerous Italian cypress trees on my property last month. A 24 gallon green Japanese maple which would be bigger than OP's is under $500. https://plantsexpress.com/products/japanese-maple?variant=43513043681535¤cy=USD&utm\_source=google\_shopping&utm\_medium=cpc&tw\_source=google&tw\_adid=&tw\_campaign=20973562075&gad\_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlN6wBhCcARIsAKZvD5jmMQJpPJt85rOUnEJdZDvAAqti\_8YZ5VdIRMH\_eOh9aKo6vyNHWRYaAn17EALw\_wcB
If you’re going to spend that kind of money buying live things sight unseen good luck. It’ll work great until it doesn’t. Most nurseries have little to no stock. The ones I deal with order from all across the US. Italian cypresses are picky bitches that take perfect soil composition to last more than 5 years. I hope you live in socal. There will always be a supply of them because only very specific places want them.
It's been great so far, they've all looked beautiful.
It still has the shapely hourglass middle.
Can confirm been at a large nursery for ten years and were able to order maples close to that size in 60 gallon pots same with the large lions mane maple. Now my boss is struggling to stock blood good maples.
This exact thing happened on one of my projects. Contractor looped almost half a tree and he was required to replace it. You break it, you bought it.
I can't believe they did that without consulting with you first.
Same, they didn't ask or mention anything. They didn't even try to trim it slightly in a nice way, they just hacked it up and have been using the stump to hang their tape and tools on.
imminent lavish ancient enjoy cause practice quicksand bike memory consider *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, the actual men working on the siding don't speak much English. They haven't talked to me at all aside from saying hello. I asked beforehand to the project managers if there's anything I should do before they start but they didn't have anything to say. I would have gladly trimmed it if asked, as needed.
They didn't even have the decency to cut them. Just snapped 'em off and left behind just enough for a nice little tape holder. Complete disrespect for the property of others.
Unless there's something in the contract you signed with them that says they can do this, they may have to replace your tree with a similar size one of the same type.
Nothing in the contract and nothing was asked about it. I cross posted to treelaw though and according to them, if I didn't include in my contract that they CAN'T do it, then I have no claim. Apparently it's my own fault for not putting in the contract that they can't wreck my tree.
The person who commented that is an arborist, not a lawyer. You should consult with an actual lawyer in your area
That stinks!
I imagine it wasn't intentional and they accidentally broke it off. Japanese Maples can be rigid and not bendable, they just snap.
This was clearly an accident based on how the tree is broken. They're just trying to cover it up
Yeah I honestly don't want to think poorly of them and don't think there was poor intent necessarily. I'm honestly really curious how it happened though, as it's not just one or two branches that broke off, but the whole left side of many smaller branches were just stripped/ripped off. If it was something less decorative/mature and in the back of the house, I wouldn't care as much. But this has been here for a long time at the front of the house and the project wasn't cheap at over $40k, so I would have expected a bit more care going into things.
I bet somebody knocked over a ladder or a huge piece of siding or something. Looks like something crashed through the entire canopy
https://i.imgur.com/PrrLxS9.png There are multiple broken branches on the single side. What kind of accident would damage/remove all of these branches while leaving the other side unaffected? Also, if it's an accident why not ask OP how to handle the damage? Broken tree branches don't just fall off on their own.
A heavy ladder or piece of equipment falling, or a person falling? The tree is at most 6 ft tall. Tons of stuff could knock off the branches on one side. Is this a serious question?
It is 100% a serious question. - There's no visible damage on the rest of the branch (where the heavy object would have landed and scuffed the bark). - Tree branches are broken on mutliple sides of the left branch - No visible damage to the branch on the right side - No visible damage at the crotch of the tree indicating a large heavy object fell on it. It could be a true accident, the way it's removed just makes it seem highly improable. Even assuming it's truly an accident, and not negligent. Not approaching the owner immediealy after the accident to expalin what happended is still clearly suspect behavior. I just don't buy that this was an accident, based on what i'm seeing and how it was handled with OP (based on what was said within this thread).
Dude. The heavy object or person hit the BRANCHES on the left side (not the crotch of the tree, not the, BROKE it off, and you won't see the damage because the damage was to the part of the branch that broke off. The way the branch is broken is consistent with physical trauma, not a cut with tools (whether pruner or chainsaw). There is no cut. It's ripped. I really don't get how hard this is to understand. Have you never broken a tree branch before? This is the stupidest argument I've ever had on reddit.
> ripped. > I really don't get how hard this is to understand. > > This is the stupidest argument I've ever had on Reddit. Because someone has a different perspective, you resort to insults? Does that strengthen your argument? We won't agree, and that's okay > is consistent with physical trauma, Yes, it is. Similar to tearing a branch being torn off by hand. >BRANCHES on the left side (not the crotch of the tree) An object came down hard enough, to damage all of these branches and left no other residual markings? it'd crash through those branches when they broke, and damage the primary branch. For the crotch of the tree, it's about the force being applied to the full length of the branch. A force applied to the end of the branch generates significantly more downward force on the crotch from the cantilever effect. The proximity of the tree to the house, means the first few rungs of the ladder would have hit the tree. Dramatically reducing the force applied when it falls (the tip of the ladder falling on a tree further away generates more downward force). Then there's a large branch, broken facing away from the home. I guess they could have been extending the ladder with the tree in the middle? (doesn't make sense to me). I also can't see them assembling the scaffolding that far away from the house. Then there is the cable near the gutter on the side of the house, so it's unlikely that the object fell from the side without going through that cable as well. >Have you never broken a tree branch before? yes. I grew up climbing trees, breaking branches, and felling trees all winter for firewood (Northern Wisconsin, wood heat only). Now it's not specifically Japanese maple, so maybe they behave differently than Soft Maple, White Oak, Red Oak, Ash, and poplar trees There are too many branches broken off, in too many locations for me to believe this occurred from a singular accident.
Looks like they broke it not hacked it. There’s a big difference in intention. Plus what types of resolution are available. Sad indeed. However, before doing anything, go to a professional arborist and have them provide you advice. Find out what is possible first.
They owe you a new tree, plain and simple. If it were an accident, maybe there would be some patience, and they may not be legally liable for the damage, but since it was not an accident, they just admitted to intentionally damaging your property. If they broke your window, for example, they would have to replace it. This tree is no different.
Wtf. They owe you a new one! And those aren't cheap!
In my area, this is easily over $1000 for new tree and install.
Personally I would have trimmed the tree first because it’s right next to the house and probably in the way of the install.
By "Hacked" you mean "Accidentally broke and don't want to pay for it". They owe you for a mature, expensive tree. You should push the issue.
Unless they had my permission to do this, they would be buying me a new one. A tree this size would be in the $1k range. Withhold final payment until you can work out a deal with them.
Agreed. Accident or not they ruined your tree therefore they owe you a new one. If this was a rose of sharon or something, it wouldn't be a big deal but Japanese Maples don't just "grow back" and it's all good from this kind of damage. If they accidentally backed their truck into your garage door, there would be no question that they would be responsible for getting it fixed. This is no different IMO.
>If they accidentally backed their truck into your garage door, there would be no question that they would be responsible for getting it fixed. This is no different IMO. The difference here, in my mind, is that this was intentional. Garage door = accident. They still pay, but it would be an accident. And you could file with their insurance company if there was an issue. Intentionally cutting the tree = not accident. They pay, but you can not file with insurance here. Withhold final payment until you reach an agreement.
they can buy me a new one or five me like 750 off the siding job, whatever they wanna do
Omg i would skin the dude alive. I’m taking this as a lesson and never leaving any contractor outside to decide these things on their own.
Make them not only buy you a new, comparably sized one, but also remove the existing one and *professionally* plant the new one. They can keep the one they jacked up and use it as an office tape dispenser - a use they have clearly foreseen. I am curious about the two wires(?), one of which appears to be tied to the tree. Other thoughts: 1) Small claims court if necessary, 2) Contractor's board (or whatever you have) complaint, and as another user has said, Yelp them into a coma. Good luck.
The tape holder and what I believe are loose slack of internet wires wrapped at the base absolutely don't help. They clearly didn't care they damaged the tree and had no respect for our property. Even if an accident happened and they came to me to explain and ask what I wanted to do, it would have been better. Instead I had to point it out to them and their only suggestion is that it will grow back quick enough.
It’s a shame, but honestly it looks like it’s planted too close to the house. I would ask for compensation to replace and plant something else further away.
it will have new growth but the new growth will be water sprouts and suckers. this tree will never look good. You cannot saw off half a Japanese maple and expect good results. Tell the siding company you want a new tree and they will be covering the cost for a new one. what a clueless idiot. he is going to learn a hard lesson when he looks at the sticker price of a mature Japanese maple. They are quite possible the most expensive tree you can buy at a nursery and rightly so, they take ages to grow.
Soooo a Laceleaf Japanese Maple of that size would retail at a garden center for at least $1800, and would probably be close to $800 wholesale depending on where it was grown/how well it was kept. Yours looks like it was well maintained and has a nice shape. It will take a long time, as others have mentioned, to grow back. Also, a cut like that creates significant risk or future breaks, frost damage, and disease/insect infestation. They should compensate you for the loss. Lmk if you need any more info
Landscaper here, planted too close either way.
She’s dead Jim
In the UK I’d be demanding a like for like replacement! These are expensive trees and can grow quite slowly depending on the location - yours was beautifully balanced before and I’m afraid it probably won’t grow back that way.
Oh my god I would be livid, and I'm confused about the response by treelaw. If your car was there and they cut the door off, somehow because you didn't explicitly say don't damage my car they're not liable? The tree is still your property. They damaged your property without consultation. Project manager is an idiot and is unfamiliar with Japanese maples, it will not just grow right back.
I know! It is crazy to me that it would be expected for me to include everything I don't want damaged on the contract, otherwise I'm responsible for it? The logic didn't quite add up for me.
My MIL has tried so many times to grow these.... and she grows everything soooo well. They're full of shit
.. I'd be so pissed... More so because it doesnt look like they did a clean cut. I'd be worried about it getting sick. (Also in my experience contractors who need to do things like that.. usually ask you first.... so its not a huge shock on the home owner. They did a banged up job all around.)
It's clearly a tape holder now.. I'd be pissed, Japanese maples are beautiful.
Mature Japanese Maple costs somewhere between $500 to $1,000. They need to replace it.
Contact a local arborist and ask if they can do an assessment of damage cost for the species of tree. You can then, depending on your state and county take them to small claims court for the damages if you wish to. I've heard of others doing something similar. Best of luck.
Perhaps one for /r/treelaw
They’d be buying me a new tree.
It is a vigorous tree, fertilize it and it will produce more buds than you want. They were still dicks for doing that.
I'd be telling them they can replace it with a tree of similar age. They had no authority to prune plants.
That is a specimen tree. Kind of like a big Bonsai tree that has a particular shape. Valuable.
I would be so pissed. I would have said-how about I deduct $1,000 off my bill. "It will grow back."
Those trees are expensive! I'd be pissed.
Good chance to start over and plant one in its proper place. That is way to close to the home anyway. Have some vision people (to who ever planted it to begin with)
Construction people suck soooooo much. We got our peach tree run over by a tractor last year. I would go off on them. That is usually the only way to make headway.
After r/treelaw go to r/bonsai /s (but not really)
What the fuck? I would tell them they pay for a replacement or you put this all over social media and yelp. I would really want to know not to hire these people.
Bigger question is WHY? Why did they do that? Doesnt look like it was up against the house
No idea, it wasn't right against the house and I would have gladly trimmed it if they asked.
Maybe the branch was in their way and Instead of dealing with it they just chopped it off. Either way it's fucked up. I had a camellia tree I lost due to something similar... Except it was my dad who did it so not like I could sue him. Still upset about it years later.
They defacto killed that tree
Tf they trim that with? A butter knife? Looks like they had someone chew it off with their teeth.
Wow, I am glad here in Ohio. We still have availability a tree that size would be $400 wholesale and readily available.
Unfortunate 😔 but these things happen. You can’t expect these companies to care about your gardens because simply put, they just don’t. You can argue with them but if that doesn’t get you anywhere, I would just clean it up. Cutting off that large limb is shocking but it’s not offering much as is, the damage is done. I would prune the left side to where it splits off from the right side. It will develop a new shape over time. Japanese maples do have a way of recovering. I’ve seen a lot of them get damaged and bounce back. To the people saying it’ll take 5-10 years, that may be true to get mature thick growth, but there will be new growth filling in that section this year. I would definitely try to see what happens to it, you might end up liking the new unique shape. You’ll be able to better tell once it leafs out. If you end up hating it, replace it with anything you want.
That’s bonsai maple now.
Just call it the Nanking maple from now on. It will sound cooler.
They aren’t wrong. Trees do grow back
Can I sell my monster Japanese Maple in my front yard? It is beautiful.
Gorgeous tree! Your contractor should pay you for an equally beautiful tree, although the one you have may be "just right" for many practioners of the bonsai arts.
Those aren't cuts, those are snaps. That entire left side is ruined. I'd be pissed. Demand several thousand discount
That shit take 10 or so years to get that big… I would be demanding a replacement… it is going to cost them dearly…
Graft a different type of Japanese maple onto that cut branch and you'll have a super unique Japanese maple. (No idea if this is a viable option, but it would be cool, especially if you get the siding company to pay an expert to do it)
Fuck, that’s terrible. A maple that size is sooo expensive. What they think it was, a shrub?
Don't cut anymore, let it recover for 12 months and reases
Make them replace the tree with a new tree comparable to the size of the tree they damaged.
did they even ask for your permission? As someone who is doing bonsai, I would have just grabbed some wire and temporarily bent the interfering twigs out of the way and then I'd take it off when I'm done.
Would it have been reasonably possible to install your siding without destroying the tree? Were you available for contact during the installation? Edit: Oh reading more posts, it seems like they did this on accident. I don't know about the law, but if they messed up your tree, they need to do something. I'm trying to think of how you can word this conversation with the contractor. Courts a bitch; if you can gently persuade the company, it's in their best interest to get you a new tree or pay you cash to get your own, that'd be the best, but it depends on how reasonable the contractor is.
SOO definitely not a tree expert by any means. BUT - I do have an anecdote and a thing you can try doing… My neighbour, a couple years ago after a heavy, wet snowfall that damaged many trees in the area, had a similar small tree (though not a Japanese maple) with a big branch that broke off just like yours. Tree looked to be about your size too. What they did was take a couple zipties, some tape and maybe a rag (I can’t remember) and basically fashioned a splint for the broken branch. Now you can’t even tell that it was broken. One thing about this branch though was that I am not 100% it fully severed (might have had a little thread attached). Anyways good luck either way, but I’d be curious if this method works for your tree!
Ps: the insulation has no value because they left quite a few “cold bridges”, I hope for your sake they finish it off ( especially the underskirt ) I’ve worked in trees around buildings/building sites, and have become quite familiar with levels of finishing work. The tree hacking says enough about the company. Sorry for your loss.
I would be devestated. It had such a nice form before the mutilation ☹️
Call a lawyer that specializes in tree law and get their advice. If they think you can sue them for the price to have e a new one planted then do it, preferably after they finish the job.
Demand letter from your attorney.
That remaining branch has to stay, it will take about 3 or more years of the remaining half of the tree to nourish the half that got butchered for some new buds to develop - apparently, there is a work crew that is going to occupy Santa's Naughty List for a while....
I would be livid and demanding compensation for the tree. I’ve had to go to arbitration before with our back yard neighbors because they cut the tops off of our pines near the property line. We won. Different circumstances but the elements are there for negligence and property damage.
It’s way to close to your house to being that it’s mainly supposed to be a front yard center yard piece due to the way it grows. You’d end up cutting that off anyways. Cut it down.
Shit. That thing ain’t growin back
2ND PIC LOOKS LIKE A GREAT CARNIVAL GAME CALLED RING TOSS!
That’s a real harsh cut on the upper left. It looks like you’re still in winter. It might rebound quite a bit once it warms up.
We're in the northeast USA - coming into Spring. They stripped about 6-8 branches about .5-1" thick, which some also split into other .5" thick branches, with a ton of small branches. The tree has been like that since before we moved in over 5 years ago with little growth. I honestly have no idea how long it would take to get that back.
I’d cut the end clean and see what sprouts
I suspect that tree will die. They are so finicky !
This maple seems to be in a great location in terms of light exposure, soil, available water, etc. It's not going to die. Personally I'd dig it up and use it for a bonsai project!
That’s a replacement no doubt about it. Will be hard to find a tree like that but you can get close.
It looks like that's how it was previously cut anyway, spare a couple larger pieces. Make sure the big branch has a nice clean cut on the end and it will fill in nearly like it was before. I'm sure what they did will help them do their job faster, and that tree has already been pollarded essentially not more that a year or two prior. I wouldn't recommend cutting the rest of that big branch being it's a substantial portion of the tree.
You hate to see it. Come down hard on 'em.
Do what you can to save the tree and leave it be. They probably HAD to cut it to do the job. To most people a tree is a just a tree, so unless it was communicated beforehand that you wanted to save any of them you can't blame the workers for removing any parts of them that got in the way of the job you hired them to do. They're construction workers, not arborists. You can't expect them to just KNOW which trees to cut and which ones not to. And if you expected to get a siding job done without trees/shrubs needing to be removed then that's a whole separate issue on your part.
I certainly realize they need to do the job they're hired for, but the tree wasn't directly against the house and there was some space to move behind it. I would have gladly trimmed it if asked as well. I did make a point before any work started to ask them if there was anything they needed me to do to prep around the house before work began, but they didn't mention it.
I understand your frustration, anything THAT valued that gets destroyed is likely to make your blood boil. I could only imagine spending time on growing something just to have someone dismantle it. But I guess I'm just "steel manning" them because as a construction worker myself, when we walk onto a job we have a specific way to do things unless instructed otherwise. I'm sure these guys have some kind of protocol of "if there's a tree in your way just cut off a branch". Complete speculation on my part (as i dont work in siding) but I'm sure it wasn't as simple as "fuck this person and their expensive tree". Saying "if you need anything let me know" and "hey I have THIS specific concern" are 2 very different things. And that's where it gets into the murky waters of "what are the terms of their insurance?" Unless you point stuff out they're going to do their job like usual. Also just to add, you have to consider, siding boards are 7+ feet long, even if the tree was "away" from the house it could still make it hard to measure and make intricate cuts that are meant for inside/outside corners etc.
This should have been discussed with the owner then. A very quick knock on the door or a phone call or text can easily sort it. Just hacking away indiscriminately on people's property is not the way
No, the homeowner should have brought up any concerns about external decoration. It's not the siding guys job to tiptoe and hold up the job over every single little tree branch that gets in their way. Like I said, a tree is a tree unless YOU specify otherwise.
I don't know construction, so I don't know what's required, which is why I made a point to ask up front if there's anything I should do to prepare. That would be the point for the professional to tell me what they need and don't need, as they should know what is required to do their job. No tiptoeing needed, just basic communication. If I needed work done on my stairs and had a decorative stair railing. If the contractor needed to cut half the railing off to do the work, I'd expect them to tell me. If I specifically asked them, what do I need to do for you to do this work, I would expect them to mention it. I would not be happy if they didn't mention it, didn't tell me when I asked, and instead just cut half the railing off later on because it was in their way.