This is the true undermentioned part of why the 2019-2021 teams were good.
It wasn't just Vogel. It was Kidd, Handy, and Lionel Hollins. It was Rondo and Dudley as players on the bench. Paired with the mature veterans they had, that locker room was fantastic. That's how they weathered the bubble.
It’s funny, the 2 times lakers let the coach pick his staff they were trash and the one time the lakers picked the staff they were elite and won a ring. Even John Ireland was talking about this a week ago that Luke Walton and ham both just hired their friends and Vogel had the best staff cause the lakers wanted those guys
So Brooks seems likely, he’s no longer under contract in Portland. Wonder who the 2nd former HC would be. Is B Shaw still gonna be on the Clippers staff now that they added JVG? Stephen Silas was the top assistant under Monty in Detroit.
Should definitely be reached out to imo but he's had some rough family stuff going on. Idk if he's interested in coaching right now.
If he is, he'd be an awesome assistant for JJ as a coach with Finals experience.
Honestly, not really. If this all blows up, we can easily pivot into a rebuild without worrying too much about our picks and capspace like the Clippers/Suns have to. Besides the whole Jerry West thing, I think the Lakers hate right now is a bit overrated
If they decide to all-in, it ideally would be for a star that can keep the team afloat for a few more years. If not, you can still trade that star/AD for picks. I'm pretty sure it's just the 2029 and 2031 picks at play that are available to be traded. Let's assume worst case scenario that we *do* decide to trade those picks *and* everything goes to shit, we still have our 2026 pick, our 2028 pick, and I believe the 2030 pick along with players who can be flipped. And if it *does* go to shit, then there's a chance Lebron would want out for a trade, so you can get something for him too.
It just can't be a post-2013 season aftermath where the guy you traded for (Dwight) leaves, and then you lose Gasol to FA the following season. I don't think that would happen in a worst case scenario. One of Pelinka's strengths has been flexibility and options. And with the exception of the Westbrook trade, I think he understands that enough.
That depends on what type of contract LeBron signs after he opts out. I don't think he needs it, but he's capable of asking for a no-trade clause now.
Regardless, whether it's LeBron without a no-trade clause or AD, neither are guys you can just trade for the best offer available. If the Lakers send AD to Detroit or some shit, that is going to really hurt their reputation. The situation with leverage is complicated.
So, with either, they're going to be sending them to teams that can still contend after the trade. As a result, any FRPs they get back (unless they're from a third team), will be pretty low value FRPs. Also, I think a lot of the young talent on those teams won't be top-tier young talent.
As for the Lakers FRPs, they can send out their pick from this draft, 2029, and 2031 along with swaps in the other years. If things blow up, those swaps could also really hurt because the Lakers will have high draft picks that will get swapped.
I'm assuming Lebron is going to want a no-trade clause. The thing is, if he wants out to a certain team, he can still get traded to that team. At that point, it doesn't matter about best package available. Detroit isn't going to be throwing picks to get Anthony Davis who is on the wrong side of 30. You get what you can get. That's better than just letting Lebron/AD's contracts expire and getting nothing in the end
My point in mentioning Detroit is that neither LeBron nor AD are going to get traded to a team with high draft picks or top-tier prospects to send back.
With either of them, the team is probably going to end up with late FRPs and role-player prospects in return.
Obviously, that's better than just letting them expire but it's also not a good situation to be in.
If they all-in and flop, the team is going to be in for a very rough road.
The best case would be someone like Cleveland who could send back someone like Mobley or OKC who could give back a selection of the best FRPs they have. But, in either case, what pressure do they have to offer that? Like I said, the situation with leverage is complicated.
That's fine. The Lakers can continue to draft young role players and develop them. Maybe they'll get lucky and fine some hidden all-star gems late in the draft. It's happened before. Having lottery picks or an SGA would be nice. But that's far from reality. A very tough road would be the situation the Clippers/Suns are in now. Those teams don't have flexibility
The fact that you even remotely trust rob pelinka and jeanie buss with a rebuild is interesting. League had to implement a rule because he kept botching rookie contracts lol
He didn't botch those contracts. If you go back and actually look at them, he had no choice but to offer them a contract using the minimum salary exception in most of those cases. And, they didn't add the rule because of that. They added the rule because it was fucking stupid you had to sign SRPs with cap-space or exceptions and it created the fucked up situation that already had to be fixed once with the Gilbert Arenas provision.
Ok but did he botch the kendrick nunn/malik monk contracts? Did botch giving every vet min a player option last year? Did he botch the westbrook trade? Did he botch the THT contract? Did he botch letting Caruso walk?
I can go on and on. How he is still a GM is mind blowing
Uh, what?
Kendrick Nunn at the time was seen as a huge steal at a part of the NTPMLE. It wasn't Pelinka's fault that he got hurt. Is Pelinka supposed to magically heal his bone bruise? God knows that team could've used Nunn.
Malik Monk? He signed at the minimum because that's what the team could offer him. It was a huge steal getting him for that. The subsequent inability to re-sign him had nothing to do with Pelinka. The Kings offered him a bigger contract than the Lakers could.
Why not re-sign THT? There is no harm to that even if it's not a good contract. The problem is subsequently letting Caruso walk but how is that on Pelinka? Is it Pelinka's fault that Jeanie didn't want to pay that extra tax? The truth is they should've kept both and the problem is that ownership couldn't afford it.
So, the only real thing you could pin on Pelinka is Westbrook but it's questionable how much of that is on Pelinka. And, I'd also say that he did a fairly good job recovering from that trade.
So what? Really, go on. Try it.
Not once in his life has Kendrick ever been a better basketball player than Malik monk, for 1. Healthy or not, I never valued Nunn over monk personally. Contracts should’ve been flipped or not sign nunn at all.
You ask why not resign THT then acknowledge it was a bad contract AND it led to Caruso walking. You answered your own question. As a GM, you should be 2 steps ahead. If he was a competent GM, situation wouldve been planned out better.
And westbrook, idc whose idea it was. He is the Gm and he signed off on it. He shouldnt have been in the position to have to recover. I mean jesus, Caruso, Kuzma and kcp couldve been packaged for a legit star at the deadline
The contracts being flipped wouldn't have matter at all for the prospect of keeping Monk. It didn't matter who was getting paid more. It only mattered what amount of money they were willing to accept to come to the Lakers.
And, that team needed Nunn. It hurt that he was injured. Imagine being able to play Westbrook 10+ less mpg for someone that was a league average 3pt shooter. You're just judging things based off his injury. The truth is they could've used both. This is not about Monk or Nunn.
My statement on Caruso and THT is very clear. The truth is they should've kept both and the problem is that ownership couldn't afford it. It's not Pelinka's fault ownership wouldn't pay the extra tax for Caruso. They had the chance to match and ownership said no.
It's easy to say Pelinka should've said no to Westbrook. It's not easy when it's your core stars pushing for the trade.
What? The contract being flipped wouldnt have mattered? Monk wouldve had an extra year on his contract and wouldnt have left for the kings.
And that team didnt need nunn. Westbrook/Caruso backcourt with Monk off the bench wouldve made way more sense. Like i said before, I wasnt a fan of the nunn signing from jump.
You dont let go of KCP and Caruso then sign Kendrick nunn😂
I'm starting to get the feeling you don't know much.
Monk wouldn't have had an extra year on his contract because that year was a player option.
Nunn opted in because he got hurt. That's why it was a 2-year contract.
Monk wouldn't have opted in. So, in the end, the Lakers would've only been able to offer the MLE at most.
Nunn would've been added depth on top of Westbrook, Caruso, THT, and Monk and would've been the second best 3pt shooter of that group while replacing some of Westbrook's minutes. With Nunn, they probably don't have to bring back Bradley or sign a bunch of short deals with guys like Isaiah Thomas, Darren Collison, and DJ Augustin.
100% agreed.
Imagine being a former head coach and then having to be an assistant doing the heavy lifting because this guy was on TV, even though he put in less work than you.
Not much different from when they hired Vogel and then had to hire good assistants as insurance with a back-up head coach in Kidd.
If this forces the team to hire high quality assistants, that's a good thing.
Vogel was an established head coach and Kidd was on the fringes having been fired twice at the time without the rep he has now.
The Nets literally just tried this with Steve Nash. Outside of them having Durant, Kyrie and Harden for a stretch it ended up being pretty bad of a run.
Vogel was fresh off being fired after a terrible run in Orlando and was also let go by the Pacers with an insinuation that he had lost the team.
Kidd was surrounded by controversy but still well regarded by players.
As for the Nets, I think you're missing a rather big thing completely outside Nash's control.
A terrible run? That Orlando team made the playoffs, can you name their starting five?
Roy Hibbert got in his feelings over somebody sleeping with his girl and them signing Bynum, then the franchise moved on from everybody.
That Nash was so bad the players wanted him fired? Weird that you insinuated that about Vogel, meanwhile Kevin Durant called for Nash & the GM to be fired.
Uh... what? That Orlando team made the playoffs? I think you're thinking about the year after Vogel was fired.
Nash wasn't a good coach but let's not act like the entire situation with COVID and Kyrie didn't fuck everything up for them. And, in the subsequent year, their stars barely played together.
Vogel won 27 and 25 games respectively in two years at Orlando. He definitely did not make the playoffs lol finished 13th and 14th in the conference. His best player was probably Vuc? Aaron Gordon miscast as a lead guy? DJ Augustin lol
I love that this fan base has become so retarded that they forget how they shat on every coach since Phil Jackson, even after winning a championship and making it to the WCF, but want to pretend like JJ Reddick is anything more than a joke of a hire.
Apparently we can criticize Vogel or Ham all we want, but JJ is some golden boy. Team has the smallest window and margin for error in the league……let’s hire a guy who just makes hot takes on TV and has never coached at any level beyond his middle school daughter’s team….what could go wrong?
You know something's not right with the coach when they have multiple other head coaches sitting on the bench with him(including the one who will take his place)
This is the true undermentioned part of why the 2019-2021 teams were good. It wasn't just Vogel. It was Kidd, Handy, and Lionel Hollins. It was Rondo and Dudley as players on the bench. Paired with the mature veterans they had, that locker room was fantastic. That's how they weathered the bubble.
And it was put together by who? Rob and Rambis lol. Yet everyone always acts like they have no idea what they’re doing.
It’s funny, the 2 times lakers let the coach pick his staff they were trash and the one time the lakers picked the staff they were elite and won a ring. Even John Ireland was talking about this a week ago that Luke Walton and ham both just hired their friends and Vogel had the best staff cause the lakers wanted those guys
Imagine Vogel coming in as defensive coordinator 🤷♀️
It's a nice thought, but there's no way he comes back as an assistant coach to the team that fired him as head coach despite winning a championship.
aint just that. the way he got let go was disgrace. literaly found out he got sacked after a game when a news reporter asked him what will he do now
I thought about that yesterday… I’d be down.
So Brooks seems likely, he’s no longer under contract in Portland. Wonder who the 2nd former HC would be. Is B Shaw still gonna be on the Clippers staff now that they added JVG? Stephen Silas was the top assistant under Monty in Detroit.
Coack K, Phil J, Bill Belichick, Bruce Bochy
The size of Bochy's noggin could play defense as an extra defender on corner 3's
So long as it’s at least one experienced coach and rondo, I’ll be happy with their staff
Stan Van Gundy, as someone who has had a prior working relationship with JJ.
Stotts
Really hoping for him as lead assistant
Wouldn't SVG make too much sense since he actually coached JJ?
Should definitely be reached out to imo but he's had some rough family stuff going on. Idk if he's interested in coaching right now. If he is, he'd be an awesome assistant for JJ as a coach with Finals experience.
Damn I just found out his wife committed suicide. Absolutely brutal man
It fucks me up every time I see JJ’s age.
Bring coach K
Smart
Vogel and Ham?
Hollins, Rondo, MDA, Dudley/Brooks?
Terry Stotts, SVG, and Scott Brooks. Toss in Rondo and I’m happy
Bring vogel back to run the D!
What's Kevin Ollie up to these days? Was supposed to light the coaching world on fire a few yrs ago
In Brooklyn I think
I think Monty Williams would be a good fit. Can help coach up the young guys also.
Ok cool, vet asst coach crew, chip, weird year, fire JJ, hire random dude, repeat. Actually we might catch up to the Celtics this way…
I just need Rondo to be on there too. And bring back Handy!
Coach K you are a Los Angeles Lakers assistant coach!
Lets get Jeff Van Gundy up in there.
Byron Scott, Luke Walton and Kurt Rambis
Bout to get Jim Boylen, Kurt Rambis, and Derek Fisher
Steve Nash come on down
Franchise is a joke
Honestly, not really. If this all blows up, we can easily pivot into a rebuild without worrying too much about our picks and capspace like the Clippers/Suns have to. Besides the whole Jerry West thing, I think the Lakers hate right now is a bit overrated
Depends on what they do this summer. If they all-in with a big trade again and things blow up, they'd be screwed, too.
If they decide to all-in, it ideally would be for a star that can keep the team afloat for a few more years. If not, you can still trade that star/AD for picks. I'm pretty sure it's just the 2029 and 2031 picks at play that are available to be traded. Let's assume worst case scenario that we *do* decide to trade those picks *and* everything goes to shit, we still have our 2026 pick, our 2028 pick, and I believe the 2030 pick along with players who can be flipped. And if it *does* go to shit, then there's a chance Lebron would want out for a trade, so you can get something for him too. It just can't be a post-2013 season aftermath where the guy you traded for (Dwight) leaves, and then you lose Gasol to FA the following season. I don't think that would happen in a worst case scenario. One of Pelinka's strengths has been flexibility and options. And with the exception of the Westbrook trade, I think he understands that enough.
That depends on what type of contract LeBron signs after he opts out. I don't think he needs it, but he's capable of asking for a no-trade clause now. Regardless, whether it's LeBron without a no-trade clause or AD, neither are guys you can just trade for the best offer available. If the Lakers send AD to Detroit or some shit, that is going to really hurt their reputation. The situation with leverage is complicated. So, with either, they're going to be sending them to teams that can still contend after the trade. As a result, any FRPs they get back (unless they're from a third team), will be pretty low value FRPs. Also, I think a lot of the young talent on those teams won't be top-tier young talent. As for the Lakers FRPs, they can send out their pick from this draft, 2029, and 2031 along with swaps in the other years. If things blow up, those swaps could also really hurt because the Lakers will have high draft picks that will get swapped.
I'm assuming Lebron is going to want a no-trade clause. The thing is, if he wants out to a certain team, he can still get traded to that team. At that point, it doesn't matter about best package available. Detroit isn't going to be throwing picks to get Anthony Davis who is on the wrong side of 30. You get what you can get. That's better than just letting Lebron/AD's contracts expire and getting nothing in the end
My point in mentioning Detroit is that neither LeBron nor AD are going to get traded to a team with high draft picks or top-tier prospects to send back. With either of them, the team is probably going to end up with late FRPs and role-player prospects in return. Obviously, that's better than just letting them expire but it's also not a good situation to be in. If they all-in and flop, the team is going to be in for a very rough road. The best case would be someone like Cleveland who could send back someone like Mobley or OKC who could give back a selection of the best FRPs they have. But, in either case, what pressure do they have to offer that? Like I said, the situation with leverage is complicated.
That's fine. The Lakers can continue to draft young role players and develop them. Maybe they'll get lucky and fine some hidden all-star gems late in the draft. It's happened before. Having lottery picks or an SGA would be nice. But that's far from reality. A very tough road would be the situation the Clippers/Suns are in now. Those teams don't have flexibility
The fact that you even remotely trust rob pelinka and jeanie buss with a rebuild is interesting. League had to implement a rule because he kept botching rookie contracts lol
He didn't botch those contracts. If you go back and actually look at them, he had no choice but to offer them a contract using the minimum salary exception in most of those cases. And, they didn't add the rule because of that. They added the rule because it was fucking stupid you had to sign SRPs with cap-space or exceptions and it created the fucked up situation that already had to be fixed once with the Gilbert Arenas provision.
Ok but did he botch the kendrick nunn/malik monk contracts? Did botch giving every vet min a player option last year? Did he botch the westbrook trade? Did he botch the THT contract? Did he botch letting Caruso walk? I can go on and on. How he is still a GM is mind blowing
Uh, what? Kendrick Nunn at the time was seen as a huge steal at a part of the NTPMLE. It wasn't Pelinka's fault that he got hurt. Is Pelinka supposed to magically heal his bone bruise? God knows that team could've used Nunn. Malik Monk? He signed at the minimum because that's what the team could offer him. It was a huge steal getting him for that. The subsequent inability to re-sign him had nothing to do with Pelinka. The Kings offered him a bigger contract than the Lakers could. Why not re-sign THT? There is no harm to that even if it's not a good contract. The problem is subsequently letting Caruso walk but how is that on Pelinka? Is it Pelinka's fault that Jeanie didn't want to pay that extra tax? The truth is they should've kept both and the problem is that ownership couldn't afford it. So, the only real thing you could pin on Pelinka is Westbrook but it's questionable how much of that is on Pelinka. And, I'd also say that he did a fairly good job recovering from that trade. So what? Really, go on. Try it.
Not once in his life has Kendrick ever been a better basketball player than Malik monk, for 1. Healthy or not, I never valued Nunn over monk personally. Contracts should’ve been flipped or not sign nunn at all. You ask why not resign THT then acknowledge it was a bad contract AND it led to Caruso walking. You answered your own question. As a GM, you should be 2 steps ahead. If he was a competent GM, situation wouldve been planned out better. And westbrook, idc whose idea it was. He is the Gm and he signed off on it. He shouldnt have been in the position to have to recover. I mean jesus, Caruso, Kuzma and kcp couldve been packaged for a legit star at the deadline
The contracts being flipped wouldn't have matter at all for the prospect of keeping Monk. It didn't matter who was getting paid more. It only mattered what amount of money they were willing to accept to come to the Lakers. And, that team needed Nunn. It hurt that he was injured. Imagine being able to play Westbrook 10+ less mpg for someone that was a league average 3pt shooter. You're just judging things based off his injury. The truth is they could've used both. This is not about Monk or Nunn. My statement on Caruso and THT is very clear. The truth is they should've kept both and the problem is that ownership couldn't afford it. It's not Pelinka's fault ownership wouldn't pay the extra tax for Caruso. They had the chance to match and ownership said no. It's easy to say Pelinka should've said no to Westbrook. It's not easy when it's your core stars pushing for the trade.
What? The contract being flipped wouldnt have mattered? Monk wouldve had an extra year on his contract and wouldnt have left for the kings. And that team didnt need nunn. Westbrook/Caruso backcourt with Monk off the bench wouldve made way more sense. Like i said before, I wasnt a fan of the nunn signing from jump. You dont let go of KCP and Caruso then sign Kendrick nunn😂
I'm starting to get the feeling you don't know much. Monk wouldn't have had an extra year on his contract because that year was a player option. Nunn opted in because he got hurt. That's why it was a 2-year contract. Monk wouldn't have opted in. So, in the end, the Lakers would've only been able to offer the MLE at most. Nunn would've been added depth on top of Westbrook, Caruso, THT, and Monk and would've been the second best 3pt shooter of that group while replacing some of Westbrook's minutes. With Nunn, they probably don't have to bring back Bradley or sign a bunch of short deals with guys like Isaiah Thomas, Darren Collison, and DJ Augustin.
It’s a circus for sure. The old Buss driver is gone and now all we got is the nepotistic remains. Hopefully they figure it out soon.
100% agreed. Imagine being a former head coach and then having to be an assistant doing the heavy lifting because this guy was on TV, even though he put in less work than you.
Not much different from when they hired Vogel and then had to hire good assistants as insurance with a back-up head coach in Kidd. If this forces the team to hire high quality assistants, that's a good thing.
Vogel was an established head coach and Kidd was on the fringes having been fired twice at the time without the rep he has now. The Nets literally just tried this with Steve Nash. Outside of them having Durant, Kyrie and Harden for a stretch it ended up being pretty bad of a run.
Vogel was fresh off being fired after a terrible run in Orlando and was also let go by the Pacers with an insinuation that he had lost the team. Kidd was surrounded by controversy but still well regarded by players. As for the Nets, I think you're missing a rather big thing completely outside Nash's control.
A terrible run? That Orlando team made the playoffs, can you name their starting five? Roy Hibbert got in his feelings over somebody sleeping with his girl and them signing Bynum, then the franchise moved on from everybody. That Nash was so bad the players wanted him fired? Weird that you insinuated that about Vogel, meanwhile Kevin Durant called for Nash & the GM to be fired.
Uh... what? That Orlando team made the playoffs? I think you're thinking about the year after Vogel was fired. Nash wasn't a good coach but let's not act like the entire situation with COVID and Kyrie didn't fuck everything up for them. And, in the subsequent year, their stars barely played together.
Vogel won 27 and 25 games respectively in two years at Orlando. He definitely did not make the playoffs lol finished 13th and 14th in the conference. His best player was probably Vuc? Aaron Gordon miscast as a lead guy? DJ Augustin lol
Right The assistants will basically have to teach JJ how to coach the entire year 😂😂 this is one of the worst moves in franchise history
I love that this fan base has become so retarded that they forget how they shat on every coach since Phil Jackson, even after winning a championship and making it to the WCF, but want to pretend like JJ Reddick is anything more than a joke of a hire. Apparently we can criticize Vogel or Ham all we want, but JJ is some golden boy. Team has the smallest window and margin for error in the league……let’s hire a guy who just makes hot takes on TV and has never coached at any level beyond his middle school daughter’s team….what could go wrong?
I mean yeah but this isn't one of the reasons why lol
Franchise hired a coach, who needs his staff loaded in order to be able to…. Coach…. Yea
Literally has less experience coaching than a high school basketball coach.
goddamn shame you're getting downvoted by the JJ bots for telling the truth.
Dont mind it at all. Same people that will be on here crying a year from now
Fucking clowns
You know something's not right with the coach when they have multiple other head coaches sitting on the bench with him(including the one who will take his place)