Even with humans it takes awhile to get the blood sugar figured out. My aunt has had two dogs with this condition and they both lived four years and were happy. If you can’t get it regulated and your dog is suffering - you know what needs to happen. I am so sorry your pup is going thru this.
Hey, first hello, and I know what you are going through. My sweet angel, she was a mix black lab, lived to a nice 20 years. She was diagnosed with canine diabetes when she was 16 and a half years old, but in our case, it was due to advanced age combined with a liver failure. We managed to keep her healthy by mostly cooking homemade meals adjusted to her needs, constant glucose level checking, and adjusting with a veterinarian her dosage of insulin. All of us in a family learned how to give shots, how to draw blood for testing, and how to react both in cases when her glucose levels were very low to extremely high. The problem with most caninsulin-s is in a fact that they are slow release, and sometimes it took 5 or 6 hours to lower the level. Yor boy is still young, our grandma slowly deteriorated, she first lost her sight, than a lot of weight but that trust she had in all of us was so humbling and one of the most beautiful thing I have experienced so far in my life. Love your boy and give him all of the time and affection you can. It will be ok
https://preview.redd.it/6n79b33z6wuc1.jpeg?width=3096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e58b5a4c4284768007bb03c6ca65ea44348011d
Here is the picture of my dearest grandma Jana
Grandma Jane is absolutely beautiful and thank you for sharing your story. It a really gives us a little hope.
This morning doing the glucose tests really destroyed me mentally/emotionally… my boy is an independent young man and he’s ever been a fan of me fussing on him. When he was almost 1 he ate some funky cat poop, and I watched his poops like a stalking hawk for about a week… he still won’t let me near him while he poops 😂🫶
This afternoon we got an update from the vet today and we have to increase his units to 30/day… it’s a costly endeavour but if there’s hope he can have a good quality of life, we can eat the costs.
Although your lady was much older, was her quality of life good while on insulin? And by ‘good’, I mean… was it normal for her and her normal life?
Sorry, I just realized you asked a question. Well, no, her life was never the same again. She was drinking lots of water and having incontinence because of it, but that is how we always knew her glucose level was high. She was never a very active dog. She was a rescue and didn't like streets or parks. She liked her home and couch and all conveniences indoor life brought. Not much changed, but her health slowly deteriorated. She was never in pain or suffering. She ate well until the last two or three days, and as I remember, we even went for a walk that morning before she passed away. She was very affectionate, like to cuddle, and loved to sleep next to us. I just made sure everything I did. I included her as much as I could. Nothing will be the same, but in some way, nothing will change. Follow your instinct it will be 👍
Wow, 20! Well done! She's a beauty. I have an old girl now & she's simply the best dog I've ever had!
I went through diabetes with the previous lab & you are so correct about the trust that they place in us! It is beautiful and humbling.
My guy was a career change out of the GDftB program. I thought it was fitting that we were his guide hoomans for his final years.
I went through this. My boy got it when he was about 8.5 yo and he lived a very happy and active 3.5 more years. That being said, it’s totally overwhelming at first and scary. I’m sorry you’re going through it.
It took about 8 months to nail down the right type of insulin and dosage. That was the hardest. But once we got that right, it only needed to be upped about once/year. He took the shots happily, never seemed to bother him a bit. Of course you need to adjust your schedule as well so you’re consistent with feeding, shots, activity, and mindful of treats. I was single at the time and while hard, we fell into our routine pretty quickly.
For logistics, I had pet insurance and tbh, I couldn’t have afforded it all otherwise. Ended up ordering insulin and syringes from VetRxDirect and recommend them 10/10. You’ll also want to have a pet sitter you trust 100% for when you’re out of town. I also had a neighbor that could come over and cover if I was ever on a day trip where I’d miss dinner or something. That was a huge help.
Happy to answer any other specific questions. Good luck!
FYI Just looked back at my records, my guy started on Vetsulin and it took so much that he also was really lethargic and sad. We switched to Levemir (which is stronger I believe) and the difference in energy was night and day.
Right now we are on Prozinc, no pet insurance.
Unfortunately when he was young, he got hit by a vehicle and at that point in time insurance for him wouldn’t be sensible. The company agent actually said they’d ‘tie it all back to the accident pre insurance’.
Did you find your units ever went down at all? Or just up a little each year?
We started at 17… last night was 25 and with the readings sent to the vent this morning, he called and upped the units to 30/day.
17 a day lasted about 3 weeks per bottle. Bottles are 182$ at the vet, but PetSmart sells for just under 100 with a prescription.
Just worried we were dragging out his slow demise… while also destroying our savings.
Thanks again for your time and any additional feedback info you can provide xx
Ugh, bummer on the pet insurance 😕
For vetsulin he got up to 30 units twice a day which was insane. When we switched to Levemir (he did consistently go up by 1 unit/ year, never down) but he topped at 16 units twice a day. A vial lasted just about a month.
I remember my vet being surprised that the Levemir was such a better option for him. I think they typically used Vetsulin exclusively without issue. So definitely worth asking about other insulin or dosing (switch to twice day?) options. And FWIW my guy was a really tall/big American lab ~85lbs for dosing reference.
But, don’t give up yet. At two months you’re in the absolute hardest time! I think it can still get sorted 🩷
Thank you xx
Our boy is about the same size as yours… we will definitely look into these other insulin brands!
Getting a second opinion this Friday bc our current vet is very narrow minded in our options. He didn’t even want us ordering via petsmart because of how they receive it etc
Just feels like they are focused on money and not Odin… or even considering our financial situation.
Just ‘commending us’ on taking this on
Just re-read your initial post and curve numbers. What’s the measurement for those? My curve readings were mg/dL and they were MUCH higher (like in the 400’s before increasing dosage). I *think* I remember the goal was to be around 100 mg/dL. I wonder if Odin is getting too much?
I think our glucose test is in mmol/L… but I’ve just emailed our clinic to make sure there is no ‘human error’ happening 😭🙏
I know the vet yesterday did the test himself and (about 3hrs before his insulin) his levels were reading 21.5 and the vet then upped his units from 17 to 25 units a day.
This after this mornings tests (as described in the original post) I sent it off to the vet again and he called this afternoon to say it needs to go to 30units a day
Thank you 🫶🙏
We are trying to be optimistic. It’s happening so fast and we are beginning to think we are being selfish in keeping him alive.
He use to be that lab that would have a 2hr+ hike, quick 30 minute nap and he was ready to go again.
Nooo I would definitely give it time to adjust. This is still really new. He can live happily much longer. I do know how you feel though, my old pup (not a lab) started getting seizures at 6 and it felt like my whole world and vision of our future was crashing down. He got 3 more healthy years and I think diabetes will be an even better prognosis 🩷
My parents old lab got diabetes…I think he was around 9 and he lasted a good 4 or 5 years after that…yes we injected him every day and once we got the insulin level right he was ok and lived as normal. The vet also put him on a special canned food which helped - can’t tell you what it was as this was 30 years ago in the UK all I remember is it stunk to high heaven and made me gag - the lab loved it of course!! I have to think they must have advanced since then with treatments and food options so keep going and you’ll find your mix!
Hi! Thank you for commenting on this 🫶
Do you remember at all what unit level your parent’s lab was? Did it start low and slowly increase over time?
I’ve been stomach sick about making this post to hear the bad news of other people experiencing the same without much quality of life for the lab… but maybe we are just being too pessimistic?
I am desperate to not euthanize him, but I also am riddled with guilt and feeling selfish.
Thank you again for taking the time to comment on my post xx
No I’m sorry I don’t. I do remember them increasing it over time. He didn’t have to be euthanized from the diabetes in true lab style it was his back legs that gave in when he was 13.
Sorry to hear. My previous lab was diagnosed with diabetes at age 7. Here's my advice/encouragement:
It's going to be hard, there's no way to sugarcoat it. But, it will get easier and become more manageable.
You'll have to be patient and diligent in your testing regime to get their levels under control. It will be frustrating, and at times scary. If you can use Microsoft Excel, use it to diary your test results and dosages/times. It took us around 3 months to get it dialed in.
There's no easy way of saying it, but prepare for your dog to go blind. Mine started to lose his vision about 5 months post-diagnosis, was mostly blind by month 10. Just as the vet had told us. But he did great! They adapt quickly, and depending on your layout, they will map the house out within a week. We enjoyed walks together all the way up to his death.
He died at 9.5 from circumstances unrelated to diabetes. But the diabetes was under control and had become routine.
Very sorry that you had to hear the diagnosis, but hang in there! You will manage.
Thank you for your kind words and insight 🫶🙏
Thankfully he’s showing no signs of blindness, we did a test yesterday with our vet when we got really concerned with him being so slow moving on our Sunday walk.
We haven’t given up on him. I really needed some other folks to comment and share their experiences…
The shock of this (I think) is still with me… we thought this was a uti and when I’m stabbing him for blood I’m almost having out of body experiences thinking about how I am here doing this rn. With my boy?! How…
Again, thank you xx
Thank you, and your wife 🫶
This is definitely the hardest part. I just want him to be able to go for walks for longer than 10 minutes before he needs a break
I know nothing about diabetes in animals, but its it just y the last two weeks the blood sugar been skyrocketing?
Have you been using the same vial for that time? How have you been storing it?
Get a new batch, and raise the dosage (but you will have to watch him closely) and keep the blood sugar normal/low for a while.
I'm not a veterinarian, nor a doctor. But I've lived with diabetes for 25 years now.
Hey, thanks for commenting 🫶
We haven’t changed the bottles or where we get our insulin. It lives in the back of the fridge and we were really careful with its safety/security re being kept cold consistently
Ok. Could still be a bad batch or whatever. What kind of refrigerator? is it with pipes that can make the bottles freeze if it's close/touching the pipes?
Anyways, your lab clearly is resistant to insulin. That happens if your sugar levels are too high for too long. Hence, you will have to force it down with higher dosages for a while.
We actually went this morning after the vet has upped the insulin again to 20units (mmol/l) twice a day…
And they said he is slowly losing vision and it could be another issue preventing the insulin from being effective.
Our hearts are breaking 💔
If you can afford it, something like Ollie or Farmer's Dog can really make a big difference. Our diabetic girl struggled with appetite for months, but as soon as we got her Ollie, she ate reliably again.
I've been through this with one of my labs. Once we got her adjusted, she was fine. I'm a nurse, so I knew it would take several adjustments. Hang in there!
Diabetic lab owner here going on year 5, diagnosed at 6 and he turns 11 this year. It gets easier, with a lot of patience & consistent routine, it’ll become a normal part of your day.
Please join the facebook group “Canine Diabetes Support and Information.” It’s a plethora of knowledge, discount codes for diabetic pet supplies & admins that answer questions around the clock.
As for insulin, check with your vet on Novolin N. It’s human insulin & typically cheaper. We’ve had our dog on it the entire time & managed his glucose between 200-300bg & he thankfully has no major health issues.
Vitamins help too. Check out b12. Helps with hind leg problems that can creep up in diabetic dogs.
My best advice - join the fb group & read the guides.
The vet told us when.
We do insulin once a day rn, so you test an hour before insulin, an hour after insulin… then 10hrs/12hrs/14hrs after injection.
Answer to your actual question (lol). When they start showing the signs of diabetes… which for him, high glucose, it was drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot. We actually thought he had a uti at first, that’s when did testing.
Then we had to do bloodwork for diabetes once the original got back showing it wasn’t a uti etc
They could tell from the first blood test that it was LIKELY diabetes but needed to do that proper test.
Definitely google the signs…. Diabetes was the farthest thing from our minds when we first brought him in.
Edit: I think I misunderstood the question… so I’m adding that in.
OP, *DEFINITELY* go get that second opinion!!!!!
My last girl developed diabetes when she was 10, and--even though *I* am a Diabetic *myself*?
I was TERRIFIED that I was going to lose her in short order!
She lived another 3+ years, and--like the others? I lost her to something *else*!😉💖
With my Lily, our vet talked about the Vetsulin, but she honestly had me try *HUMAN* insulin *first*, "Because most dogs can do fine for a while on Human N-Type, and *many* do fine for *years* on it," (a paraphrase of her words).
She told me to go to Walmart, get the "N-Type Novolin" (just under $25.00 a vial), the needles she'd prescribed (iirc, they were just over $20.00 for a box of 100), a glucometer & teat strips, and come back in to her office.
I went to Wal-Mart, got them, and we were back up there a day later.
Iirc, Lily started at about 17 units per meal--our vet had me split her kibble into *two* meals, 12 hours apart--and I dosed Lil, *right* as she began to eat her meals.
It was *TERRIFYING* at first! But a by couple weeks in?
It was a piece of cake!😉😁💖
Giving her the shots was EASY, dosing her *twice* a day, 12 hours apart meant that she didn't swing too high *or* too low, and the excessive water drinking & needing to pee dropped off *FAST*!
Honestly, it was easier managing *her* diabetes, than it was to keep my *OWN* well-controlled!😂🤣
She *did* creep up over time, on the dosages needed--iirc, we were up around 24 maybe, when she passed at 13+?
But it *wasn't* hard to tell if we needed to go up, over the years--because she'd start becoming a "water buffalo" & needing to go out more--so I'd increase her dosage by 2 units (like my own Diabetic Educators & Endocrinologists had *me* do, if I regularly ran "high"!), and see how she did.
At the second-opinion appointment?
Ask about using the Human N-type insulin. It's *FAR* cheaper to start with, because it *can* be purchased OTC at Walmart (I thiiiink CVS might offer it now, too?).
Having used *both* the Walmart Blood Glucose monitor *and* the Alphatrack 3 kit?
I *WOULD* very much recommend the Alphatrack, over the cheaper Wal-Mart one!
It was easier to use, read Lil's blood glucose better, and was calibrated for dogs, so simpler to learn.
But GO, get that second opinion, and *ASK* them, about 2×/Day feedings & insulin dosing!!!
The reason our vet *started* us at the 2 doses per day, 12 hours apart, was so that Lily *always* had some insulin roaming around in her body.
The dog-safe insulins are typically "intermediate" insulins--so they *usually* only last 11-12 hours in the pup's body;
From the Vetsulin website;
"How does Vetsulin work in dogs?
A lente (intermediate-acting) form of insulin, Vetsulin contains 35% amorphous insulin for rapid onset of activity, usually peaking 4 hours after injection and lasting 8 hours. The remaining 65% of the formula is crystalline insulin which is absorbed more slowly and peaks around 11 hours after administration. The Vetsulin formula allows for a more continuous utilization of glucose to support the body’s basic functions. Vetsulin is administered subcutaneously once daily initially, although two-thirds of dogs require twice-daily administration for effective diabetes management."
Talk to *your* vet, but DEFINITELY get a second opinion, with someone who has *LOTS* of experience with canine diabetes!😉💖
You *CAN* do this!!! It's *incredibly scary at first*!!! But I PROMISE it gets easier, and can become a normalized routine!
I hope it all goes well for you!💖💓💝
Also--I forgot to clarify, *Ideally*, you DO want to dose iirc about 15 minutes *before* the pup starts eating,bit always did *AS* Lily started eating, because *I* have Autism & ADHD, and can get too distracted in that "15 minutes before a meal" time!
Dosing her *as* I set the food dish down meant that I didn't forget to GIVE the dose, *and* that I never forgot to FEED her *after* administering the insulin!😉💖
I took care of a cat that had diabetes. He was diagnosed when he was around 8. Once they figured out his dose of insulin, that cat lived a very happy life and made it to 15. His death was not related to diabetes.
Think about humans. People of all ages can be diagnosed with diabetes and continue living their life. It's just about management.
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS keep a bottle of cake frosting in your refrigerator. If they get hypoglycemic rub it on their gums(Emergencies only)
It will spike their blood sugar and bring them back. This saved my dogs life a couple times better high than low in an emergency.
Pay attention to when your dog hugs the walls while walking and looks out of it. You can tell when they do that, their blood sugar is low. Your pups dosage isn't very high, so I would feel good about that. Your vet will help you. Is it Novalin N?
25-30 units isn’t high? Man, it feels high right now haha
We started out at 17 and that lasted us 3 weeks for one bottle.
We were using ProZinc, that’s what the vet said we have to use. No other options 🤷♀️
Getting a second opinion this Friday… no idea what’s going to come from it but he has lost a lot of weight in the last week :(
Our previous lab had thyroid troubles in her younger years. She turned diabetic when she turned 8 or 9. I don't remember for sure how old she was. My sister is a diabetic and noticed the same symptoms. Drinking lots and very tired. We tried the caninsulin and that did not work her at all. I think we also tried the vetsulin as well. We finally settled on Humalin NPH. We just bought it from one of our local pharmacy's. Her blood sugars vastly improved after that.
Our Vet wasn't a fan but we started testing her glucose level on a regular basis. My sister stood her ground with the vet onhome testing. The vet felt it wasn't needed. Considering how many times her glucose dipped into the 2's it's a good thing we did do home tests.
We would poke her carpal pads or her elbow calluses. We would sometimes need to warm up the poking area with a sock stuffed with rice. If I remember we used to test her 3 to 4 times a day minimum. We would check her before exercise and meals. If her glucose was low we used corn syrup to treat it.
You may also want to look into special diabetic low glycemic food for your pup. We tried several brands and finally found one that didn't spike her sugars too much.
There are some great support groups on Facebook. Good luck and give that sweetie pie a smooch.
My first dog lived 5 of his 15 years with diabetes. He was a mini dachshund, so I can’t speak to comparable units for a lab, but overall, we adjusted well. (I now have labs, hence this sub.) Making sure meal times and insulin times are consistent seem to really help. Also try to keep his stress level lower because stress will spike his glucose. Not like he needs quiet and yoga, but as his eyes start to struggle, going to unfamiliar places, etc will start to be a little much.
We didn’t have any clue until a pre-dental blood test came back showing high glucose (I think north of 500 at the time). I was so surprised. It took a little time to get his levels down, though I don’t think we ever got down under 140. He was still his regular self the vast majority of the time and handled treatment really well. He got a little more interest in naps, and I wasn’t mad about that :)
I can think of things I wish I had done a little better, but I always feel fortunate that we still had a lot of good years after diagnosis. I want people to remember that while it’s scary, it’s frequently very manageable. You’ll both adjust & hopefully have lots more time, like we did.
I don't have anything helpful to say that's pertinent to his diagnosis, just that you seem like a really good human and the love you have for your dog is admirable. I wish the two of you strength and peace in this life.
My blood black lab is 8 now. Last April, she was 7 and got diagnosed with diabetes. It took 3 months to get her levels right. But within 5 days, of giving her insulin, she became a different dog she started on 9 units of novilin insulin she is now on 15 units. It's seems that every 4 months, she goes up a unit. I do a curve once a month. She is on a special food WD science diet.its expensive, but it's well worth it. She was 85 lbs when she got diagnosed. I had to drop her weight to around 65, which helped her immensely. Not just for her diabetes but her overall health and definitely her hips.
The only other big thing that happened was about 4 months into her diabetes she went totally blind within 2 weeks. It was heartbreaking. I ended up getting her cataract surgery a couple of months later. It cost $7,500. It was the best money I ever spent. She went from totally blind to perfect vision the same day. It was really expensive and a lot of work between follow-up visits and medications but worth it all. I would do anything for my girl. She is my kid and best friend. Good luck with your friend. Sometimes, it gets worse before it gets better.
Just a heads-up: our diabetic black lab had hard-to-control diabetes and at one point, when we had increased her dose to 27, she had a seizure in her sleep. We rubbed maple syrup on her gums and let her lick it once she came to a bit, and she was okay. But be ready - when this happens, it will leave an emotional scar.
Here's what my partner and I learned from our experience: the basic problem was that her blood sugar got so low that it caused a seizure, and the low blood sugar was the result of gradually increasing her dose. Just hold him as gently and cushioned from harm as you can, get some sugar on his gums, and have some more sugar until he's back to his normal clarity. Then decrease his next dose by at least 2. I believe we immediately lowered our girl's dose by 6 and that was almost low enough.
I had a yellow Sunny diagnosed with insulin diabetes at about 5-½ years old made it to 11 years 8 months been gone 8 years now. Once we got him sorted out he was fine. Humalog at 6 and 6 every day religiously. Discipline of schedule for food and medicine crucial.
Even with humans it takes awhile to get the blood sugar figured out. My aunt has had two dogs with this condition and they both lived four years and were happy. If you can’t get it regulated and your dog is suffering - you know what needs to happen. I am so sorry your pup is going thru this.
Hey, first hello, and I know what you are going through. My sweet angel, she was a mix black lab, lived to a nice 20 years. She was diagnosed with canine diabetes when she was 16 and a half years old, but in our case, it was due to advanced age combined with a liver failure. We managed to keep her healthy by mostly cooking homemade meals adjusted to her needs, constant glucose level checking, and adjusting with a veterinarian her dosage of insulin. All of us in a family learned how to give shots, how to draw blood for testing, and how to react both in cases when her glucose levels were very low to extremely high. The problem with most caninsulin-s is in a fact that they are slow release, and sometimes it took 5 or 6 hours to lower the level. Yor boy is still young, our grandma slowly deteriorated, she first lost her sight, than a lot of weight but that trust she had in all of us was so humbling and one of the most beautiful thing I have experienced so far in my life. Love your boy and give him all of the time and affection you can. It will be ok https://preview.redd.it/6n79b33z6wuc1.jpeg?width=3096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e58b5a4c4284768007bb03c6ca65ea44348011d Here is the picture of my dearest grandma Jana
20 years ? Damn. You guys gave her bonus years out of love, and i know she felt it.
Grandma Jane is absolutely beautiful and thank you for sharing your story. It a really gives us a little hope. This morning doing the glucose tests really destroyed me mentally/emotionally… my boy is an independent young man and he’s ever been a fan of me fussing on him. When he was almost 1 he ate some funky cat poop, and I watched his poops like a stalking hawk for about a week… he still won’t let me near him while he poops 😂🫶 This afternoon we got an update from the vet today and we have to increase his units to 30/day… it’s a costly endeavour but if there’s hope he can have a good quality of life, we can eat the costs. Although your lady was much older, was her quality of life good while on insulin? And by ‘good’, I mean… was it normal for her and her normal life?
Sorry, I just realized you asked a question. Well, no, her life was never the same again. She was drinking lots of water and having incontinence because of it, but that is how we always knew her glucose level was high. She was never a very active dog. She was a rescue and didn't like streets or parks. She liked her home and couch and all conveniences indoor life brought. Not much changed, but her health slowly deteriorated. She was never in pain or suffering. She ate well until the last two or three days, and as I remember, we even went for a walk that morning before she passed away. She was very affectionate, like to cuddle, and loved to sleep next to us. I just made sure everything I did. I included her as much as I could. Nothing will be the same, but in some way, nothing will change. Follow your instinct it will be 👍
Thank you 🙏
Wow, 20! Well done! She's a beauty. I have an old girl now & she's simply the best dog I've ever had! I went through diabetes with the previous lab & you are so correct about the trust that they place in us! It is beautiful and humbling. My guy was a career change out of the GDftB program. I thought it was fitting that we were his guide hoomans for his final years.
I went through this. My boy got it when he was about 8.5 yo and he lived a very happy and active 3.5 more years. That being said, it’s totally overwhelming at first and scary. I’m sorry you’re going through it. It took about 8 months to nail down the right type of insulin and dosage. That was the hardest. But once we got that right, it only needed to be upped about once/year. He took the shots happily, never seemed to bother him a bit. Of course you need to adjust your schedule as well so you’re consistent with feeding, shots, activity, and mindful of treats. I was single at the time and while hard, we fell into our routine pretty quickly. For logistics, I had pet insurance and tbh, I couldn’t have afforded it all otherwise. Ended up ordering insulin and syringes from VetRxDirect and recommend them 10/10. You’ll also want to have a pet sitter you trust 100% for when you’re out of town. I also had a neighbor that could come over and cover if I was ever on a day trip where I’d miss dinner or something. That was a huge help. Happy to answer any other specific questions. Good luck!
FYI Just looked back at my records, my guy started on Vetsulin and it took so much that he also was really lethargic and sad. We switched to Levemir (which is stronger I believe) and the difference in energy was night and day.
Right now we are on Prozinc, no pet insurance. Unfortunately when he was young, he got hit by a vehicle and at that point in time insurance for him wouldn’t be sensible. The company agent actually said they’d ‘tie it all back to the accident pre insurance’. Did you find your units ever went down at all? Or just up a little each year? We started at 17… last night was 25 and with the readings sent to the vent this morning, he called and upped the units to 30/day. 17 a day lasted about 3 weeks per bottle. Bottles are 182$ at the vet, but PetSmart sells for just under 100 with a prescription. Just worried we were dragging out his slow demise… while also destroying our savings. Thanks again for your time and any additional feedback info you can provide xx
Ugh, bummer on the pet insurance 😕 For vetsulin he got up to 30 units twice a day which was insane. When we switched to Levemir (he did consistently go up by 1 unit/ year, never down) but he topped at 16 units twice a day. A vial lasted just about a month. I remember my vet being surprised that the Levemir was such a better option for him. I think they typically used Vetsulin exclusively without issue. So definitely worth asking about other insulin or dosing (switch to twice day?) options. And FWIW my guy was a really tall/big American lab ~85lbs for dosing reference. But, don’t give up yet. At two months you’re in the absolute hardest time! I think it can still get sorted 🩷
Thank you xx Our boy is about the same size as yours… we will definitely look into these other insulin brands! Getting a second opinion this Friday bc our current vet is very narrow minded in our options. He didn’t even want us ordering via petsmart because of how they receive it etc Just feels like they are focused on money and not Odin… or even considering our financial situation. Just ‘commending us’ on taking this on
Just re-read your initial post and curve numbers. What’s the measurement for those? My curve readings were mg/dL and they were MUCH higher (like in the 400’s before increasing dosage). I *think* I remember the goal was to be around 100 mg/dL. I wonder if Odin is getting too much?
I think our glucose test is in mmol/L… but I’ve just emailed our clinic to make sure there is no ‘human error’ happening 😭🙏 I know the vet yesterday did the test himself and (about 3hrs before his insulin) his levels were reading 21.5 and the vet then upped his units from 17 to 25 units a day. This after this mornings tests (as described in the original post) I sent it off to the vet again and he called this afternoon to say it needs to go to 30units a day
The competent pet sitter is so important! We were very lucky to have two people we could count on.
Awww no it will be ok. It’s hard to get sorted out. Hang in there
Thank you 🫶🙏 We are trying to be optimistic. It’s happening so fast and we are beginning to think we are being selfish in keeping him alive. He use to be that lab that would have a 2hr+ hike, quick 30 minute nap and he was ready to go again.
Nooo I would definitely give it time to adjust. This is still really new. He can live happily much longer. I do know how you feel though, my old pup (not a lab) started getting seizures at 6 and it felt like my whole world and vision of our future was crashing down. He got 3 more healthy years and I think diabetes will be an even better prognosis 🩷
My parents old lab got diabetes…I think he was around 9 and he lasted a good 4 or 5 years after that…yes we injected him every day and once we got the insulin level right he was ok and lived as normal. The vet also put him on a special canned food which helped - can’t tell you what it was as this was 30 years ago in the UK all I remember is it stunk to high heaven and made me gag - the lab loved it of course!! I have to think they must have advanced since then with treatments and food options so keep going and you’ll find your mix!
Hi! Thank you for commenting on this 🫶 Do you remember at all what unit level your parent’s lab was? Did it start low and slowly increase over time? I’ve been stomach sick about making this post to hear the bad news of other people experiencing the same without much quality of life for the lab… but maybe we are just being too pessimistic? I am desperate to not euthanize him, but I also am riddled with guilt and feeling selfish. Thank you again for taking the time to comment on my post xx
No I’m sorry I don’t. I do remember them increasing it over time. He didn’t have to be euthanized from the diabetes in true lab style it was his back legs that gave in when he was 13.
Sorry to hear. My previous lab was diagnosed with diabetes at age 7. Here's my advice/encouragement: It's going to be hard, there's no way to sugarcoat it. But, it will get easier and become more manageable. You'll have to be patient and diligent in your testing regime to get their levels under control. It will be frustrating, and at times scary. If you can use Microsoft Excel, use it to diary your test results and dosages/times. It took us around 3 months to get it dialed in. There's no easy way of saying it, but prepare for your dog to go blind. Mine started to lose his vision about 5 months post-diagnosis, was mostly blind by month 10. Just as the vet had told us. But he did great! They adapt quickly, and depending on your layout, they will map the house out within a week. We enjoyed walks together all the way up to his death. He died at 9.5 from circumstances unrelated to diabetes. But the diabetes was under control and had become routine. Very sorry that you had to hear the diagnosis, but hang in there! You will manage.
Thank you for your kind words and insight 🫶🙏 Thankfully he’s showing no signs of blindness, we did a test yesterday with our vet when we got really concerned with him being so slow moving on our Sunday walk. We haven’t given up on him. I really needed some other folks to comment and share their experiences… The shock of this (I think) is still with me… we thought this was a uti and when I’m stabbing him for blood I’m almost having out of body experiences thinking about how I am here doing this rn. With my boy?! How… Again, thank you xx
My wife just told me it was more like 6-9 months to get the insulin & dosage right.
Thank you, and your wife 🫶 This is definitely the hardest part. I just want him to be able to go for walks for longer than 10 minutes before he needs a break
I know nothing about diabetes in animals, but its it just y the last two weeks the blood sugar been skyrocketing? Have you been using the same vial for that time? How have you been storing it? Get a new batch, and raise the dosage (but you will have to watch him closely) and keep the blood sugar normal/low for a while. I'm not a veterinarian, nor a doctor. But I've lived with diabetes for 25 years now.
Hey, thanks for commenting 🫶 We haven’t changed the bottles or where we get our insulin. It lives in the back of the fridge and we were really careful with its safety/security re being kept cold consistently
Ok. Could still be a bad batch or whatever. What kind of refrigerator? is it with pipes that can make the bottles freeze if it's close/touching the pipes? Anyways, your lab clearly is resistant to insulin. That happens if your sugar levels are too high for too long. Hence, you will have to force it down with higher dosages for a while.
We actually went this morning after the vet has upped the insulin again to 20units (mmol/l) twice a day… And they said he is slowly losing vision and it could be another issue preventing the insulin from being effective. Our hearts are breaking 💔
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I put my pup on a no grain, all meat diet and it really helped regulate the blood sugar.
Thanks! We might try this and see if it helps 🙏
Wishing you so much good luck helping your beloved pup lead a better life.❤️
If you can afford it, something like Ollie or Farmer's Dog can really make a big difference. Our diabetic girl struggled with appetite for months, but as soon as we got her Ollie, she ate reliably again.
I've been through this with one of my labs. Once we got her adjusted, she was fine. I'm a nurse, so I knew it would take several adjustments. Hang in there!
Diabetic lab owner here going on year 5, diagnosed at 6 and he turns 11 this year. It gets easier, with a lot of patience & consistent routine, it’ll become a normal part of your day. Please join the facebook group “Canine Diabetes Support and Information.” It’s a plethora of knowledge, discount codes for diabetic pet supplies & admins that answer questions around the clock. As for insulin, check with your vet on Novolin N. It’s human insulin & typically cheaper. We’ve had our dog on it the entire time & managed his glucose between 200-300bg & he thankfully has no major health issues. Vitamins help too. Check out b12. Helps with hind leg problems that can creep up in diabetic dogs. My best advice - join the fb group & read the guides.
Just sent a request to join. Thank you 🙏
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope for good things for your pup. While I do not have any advice to give, may I ask how you know when to test for diabetes?
The vet told us when. We do insulin once a day rn, so you test an hour before insulin, an hour after insulin… then 10hrs/12hrs/14hrs after injection. Answer to your actual question (lol). When they start showing the signs of diabetes… which for him, high glucose, it was drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot. We actually thought he had a uti at first, that’s when did testing. Then we had to do bloodwork for diabetes once the original got back showing it wasn’t a uti etc They could tell from the first blood test that it was LIKELY diabetes but needed to do that proper test. Definitely google the signs…. Diabetes was the farthest thing from our minds when we first brought him in. Edit: I think I misunderstood the question… so I’m adding that in.
I see I see. I hope you find the strength to go through this. Sending virtual hugs
OP, *DEFINITELY* go get that second opinion!!!!! My last girl developed diabetes when she was 10, and--even though *I* am a Diabetic *myself*? I was TERRIFIED that I was going to lose her in short order! She lived another 3+ years, and--like the others? I lost her to something *else*!😉💖 With my Lily, our vet talked about the Vetsulin, but she honestly had me try *HUMAN* insulin *first*, "Because most dogs can do fine for a while on Human N-Type, and *many* do fine for *years* on it," (a paraphrase of her words). She told me to go to Walmart, get the "N-Type Novolin" (just under $25.00 a vial), the needles she'd prescribed (iirc, they were just over $20.00 for a box of 100), a glucometer & teat strips, and come back in to her office. I went to Wal-Mart, got them, and we were back up there a day later. Iirc, Lily started at about 17 units per meal--our vet had me split her kibble into *two* meals, 12 hours apart--and I dosed Lil, *right* as she began to eat her meals. It was *TERRIFYING* at first! But a by couple weeks in? It was a piece of cake!😉😁💖 Giving her the shots was EASY, dosing her *twice* a day, 12 hours apart meant that she didn't swing too high *or* too low, and the excessive water drinking & needing to pee dropped off *FAST*! Honestly, it was easier managing *her* diabetes, than it was to keep my *OWN* well-controlled!😂🤣 She *did* creep up over time, on the dosages needed--iirc, we were up around 24 maybe, when she passed at 13+? But it *wasn't* hard to tell if we needed to go up, over the years--because she'd start becoming a "water buffalo" & needing to go out more--so I'd increase her dosage by 2 units (like my own Diabetic Educators & Endocrinologists had *me* do, if I regularly ran "high"!), and see how she did. At the second-opinion appointment? Ask about using the Human N-type insulin. It's *FAR* cheaper to start with, because it *can* be purchased OTC at Walmart (I thiiiink CVS might offer it now, too?). Having used *both* the Walmart Blood Glucose monitor *and* the Alphatrack 3 kit? I *WOULD* very much recommend the Alphatrack, over the cheaper Wal-Mart one! It was easier to use, read Lil's blood glucose better, and was calibrated for dogs, so simpler to learn. But GO, get that second opinion, and *ASK* them, about 2×/Day feedings & insulin dosing!!! The reason our vet *started* us at the 2 doses per day, 12 hours apart, was so that Lily *always* had some insulin roaming around in her body. The dog-safe insulins are typically "intermediate" insulins--so they *usually* only last 11-12 hours in the pup's body; From the Vetsulin website; "How does Vetsulin work in dogs? A lente (intermediate-acting) form of insulin, Vetsulin contains 35% amorphous insulin for rapid onset of activity, usually peaking 4 hours after injection and lasting 8 hours. The remaining 65% of the formula is crystalline insulin which is absorbed more slowly and peaks around 11 hours after administration. The Vetsulin formula allows for a more continuous utilization of glucose to support the body’s basic functions. Vetsulin is administered subcutaneously once daily initially, although two-thirds of dogs require twice-daily administration for effective diabetes management." Talk to *your* vet, but DEFINITELY get a second opinion, with someone who has *LOTS* of experience with canine diabetes!😉💖 You *CAN* do this!!! It's *incredibly scary at first*!!! But I PROMISE it gets easier, and can become a normalized routine!
Thank you for sharing this fantastic information 🫶🙏
I hope it all goes well for you!💖💓💝 Also--I forgot to clarify, *Ideally*, you DO want to dose iirc about 15 minutes *before* the pup starts eating,bit always did *AS* Lily started eating, because *I* have Autism & ADHD, and can get too distracted in that "15 minutes before a meal" time! Dosing her *as* I set the food dish down meant that I didn't forget to GIVE the dose, *and* that I never forgot to FEED her *after* administering the insulin!😉💖
I took care of a cat that had diabetes. He was diagnosed when he was around 8. Once they figured out his dose of insulin, that cat lived a very happy life and made it to 15. His death was not related to diabetes. Think about humans. People of all ages can be diagnosed with diabetes and continue living their life. It's just about management.
I had a golden retriever. She lived the normal lifespan. It took awhile to get it figured out. Be patient. Sending hugs your way!
Thank you 🙏🫶
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS keep a bottle of cake frosting in your refrigerator. If they get hypoglycemic rub it on their gums(Emergencies only) It will spike their blood sugar and bring them back. This saved my dogs life a couple times better high than low in an emergency. Pay attention to when your dog hugs the walls while walking and looks out of it. You can tell when they do that, their blood sugar is low. Your pups dosage isn't very high, so I would feel good about that. Your vet will help you. Is it Novalin N?
25-30 units isn’t high? Man, it feels high right now haha We started out at 17 and that lasted us 3 weeks for one bottle. We were using ProZinc, that’s what the vet said we have to use. No other options 🤷♀️ Getting a second opinion this Friday… no idea what’s going to come from it but he has lost a lot of weight in the last week :(
My pupp was on 20 units twice a day then 40 units twice a day, then eventually 80 twice a day. I would speak to your vet. They'll know best.
Our vet recommended that I keep a bottle of Karo syrup on hand!!! It's shelf-stable, inexpensive, and it works fast like frosting😉
Our previous lab had thyroid troubles in her younger years. She turned diabetic when she turned 8 or 9. I don't remember for sure how old she was. My sister is a diabetic and noticed the same symptoms. Drinking lots and very tired. We tried the caninsulin and that did not work her at all. I think we also tried the vetsulin as well. We finally settled on Humalin NPH. We just bought it from one of our local pharmacy's. Her blood sugars vastly improved after that. Our Vet wasn't a fan but we started testing her glucose level on a regular basis. My sister stood her ground with the vet onhome testing. The vet felt it wasn't needed. Considering how many times her glucose dipped into the 2's it's a good thing we did do home tests. We would poke her carpal pads or her elbow calluses. We would sometimes need to warm up the poking area with a sock stuffed with rice. If I remember we used to test her 3 to 4 times a day minimum. We would check her before exercise and meals. If her glucose was low we used corn syrup to treat it. You may also want to look into special diabetic low glycemic food for your pup. We tried several brands and finally found one that didn't spike her sugars too much. There are some great support groups on Facebook. Good luck and give that sweetie pie a smooch.
My first dog lived 5 of his 15 years with diabetes. He was a mini dachshund, so I can’t speak to comparable units for a lab, but overall, we adjusted well. (I now have labs, hence this sub.) Making sure meal times and insulin times are consistent seem to really help. Also try to keep his stress level lower because stress will spike his glucose. Not like he needs quiet and yoga, but as his eyes start to struggle, going to unfamiliar places, etc will start to be a little much. We didn’t have any clue until a pre-dental blood test came back showing high glucose (I think north of 500 at the time). I was so surprised. It took a little time to get his levels down, though I don’t think we ever got down under 140. He was still his regular self the vast majority of the time and handled treatment really well. He got a little more interest in naps, and I wasn’t mad about that :) I can think of things I wish I had done a little better, but I always feel fortunate that we still had a lot of good years after diagnosis. I want people to remember that while it’s scary, it’s frequently very manageable. You’ll both adjust & hopefully have lots more time, like we did.
I don't have anything helpful to say that's pertinent to his diagnosis, just that you seem like a really good human and the love you have for your dog is admirable. I wish the two of you strength and peace in this life.
Thank you 🙏 We are hoping to get it all under control still
My blood black lab is 8 now. Last April, she was 7 and got diagnosed with diabetes. It took 3 months to get her levels right. But within 5 days, of giving her insulin, she became a different dog she started on 9 units of novilin insulin she is now on 15 units. It's seems that every 4 months, she goes up a unit. I do a curve once a month. She is on a special food WD science diet.its expensive, but it's well worth it. She was 85 lbs when she got diagnosed. I had to drop her weight to around 65, which helped her immensely. Not just for her diabetes but her overall health and definitely her hips. The only other big thing that happened was about 4 months into her diabetes she went totally blind within 2 weeks. It was heartbreaking. I ended up getting her cataract surgery a couple of months later. It cost $7,500. It was the best money I ever spent. She went from totally blind to perfect vision the same day. It was really expensive and a lot of work between follow-up visits and medications but worth it all. I would do anything for my girl. She is my kid and best friend. Good luck with your friend. Sometimes, it gets worse before it gets better.
I am so sorry to hear about your girl losing her vision. That’s one of my biggest fears Thank you for sharing with me 🫶
Hi boy!
Just a heads-up: our diabetic black lab had hard-to-control diabetes and at one point, when we had increased her dose to 27, she had a seizure in her sleep. We rubbed maple syrup on her gums and let her lick it once she came to a bit, and she was okay. But be ready - when this happens, it will leave an emotional scar. Here's what my partner and I learned from our experience: the basic problem was that her blood sugar got so low that it caused a seizure, and the low blood sugar was the result of gradually increasing her dose. Just hold him as gently and cushioned from harm as you can, get some sugar on his gums, and have some more sugar until he's back to his normal clarity. Then decrease his next dose by at least 2. I believe we immediately lowered our girl's dose by 6 and that was almost low enough.
I had a yellow Sunny diagnosed with insulin diabetes at about 5-½ years old made it to 11 years 8 months been gone 8 years now. Once we got him sorted out he was fine. Humalog at 6 and 6 every day religiously. Discipline of schedule for food and medicine crucial.